Half-a-billion dollar "Treelord" settlement

[PirateJafa]

Put into context the amount of reparations in no way comes close to the amount of harm done over the course of history.

Oh bollocks.

You should also factor in the umpteen-thousand-years worth of technological development they gained access to.

Going from beating each other to death with rocks tied to the end of sticks to running each other over in Honda Civics with cut springs and tin-can exhausts in a mere couple hundred years has got to be worth something right?

Personally, I have always advocated the Maori being able to have free/exclusive/priority use of their traditional fishing grounds etc. But as long as they use traditional methods. Spears and wakas for fishing, and so forth, y'know.

Fair is fucking fair. Except, apparently, in New Zealand.

[Coyote]

'WORKING FOR FAMILIES'[/size]

Rest assured my family never got any government support. Not since my Dad was made redundant and my mum was fired for being pregnant with me and we went on the dole for a while. National got rid of supporting families through rough times when we were in a rough time.

Now Labour, having not pushed the tax brackets up means my Dad just edges over into the highest tax bracket by a couple hundred dollars so gets taxed back to the salary of a checkout chick, but also means he's supposedly rich enough to not need Working for Families help. This while power, food, petrol, rates, etc. go up.

My mum also did her bit for the brief time she was on the dole. She had to pay 120% of her income in tax due to an error in the system so she was paying to work.

[Coyote]

I'm not even sure if my ancestors came here early on and were to blame for land being stolen. Possibly they did. I ought to find out. However today's generation of Maori have a similar complacency to their past. Few of them go further than learning their native swear words. And rather than wear grass skirts they wear hoodies. But they all seem pretty keen to subscribe to the idea that they're "hard done by", much like their African American brothers.

One of their main claims to why the treaty was such a great injustice was they had no understanding of money or selling off land because land wasn't owned by anyone. So to owe them back we ought to give them back the land so they own it plus a lot of money.

The Maori have been westernised. Genetically and culturally.


I would also be more sensitive if the children were brought up properly instead of becoming bullies at school giving us "white pigs" shit for our skin colour and calling us racist.

[Sanx]

Aside from being illegal, requiring the consent of both parties who signed it, it'd be a disaster for New Zealand.

It would not be illegal. One can, using legislation, invalidate or supercede prior legal documents including treaties.

A small group of people are already angry, it wouldn't take too much to push the extremists over the edge.
I don't think you realise how angry some people are out there.
Look at the amateurish and hilarious Urewera "terrorist training camps".
What if they had actually been competent, careful, secret, and had been training terrorists, teaching people how to make bombs, cover their tracks, organise properly.

Oh, I do know how angry some people are but their anger does not change the fact that Maori are a relatively small minority in this country and they should not be treated any differently to any other New Zealander, no matter how recently they arrived on these shores. However, the reason they're angry has never been adequately explained by the government or by the representatives of the peoples themselves, other than in broad-brush terms like "redressing past wrongs". The anger seems to stem purely from the fact that they might have owned something or had rights to do something had something else not happened to their ancestors a long time ago. To blame high prison rates and drug abuse on injustices that they themselves did not suffer is irrational.

They would've wreaked havoc.
And of course then there'd be crackdowns and revenge on maori communities etc, and can you say Hello Northern Ireland?

Northern Ireland is a very different kettle of fish though there are some similarities. The IRA and other republican (not Catholic) terrorist groups have never stated that they wanted the lands taken from their forebears returned or compensation paid to them for the loss; they simply wanted (want) Northern Ireland merged into the Republic of Ireland. They wanted an end to British rule.

A legal, equitable settlement through the Waitangi Tribunal is our best chance of getting out of this without violence.

But compensation would not be 'getting out of this' at all. Look how the Treaty has entered almost every aspect of governance. Maori custom and opinions must be considered before anything happens, whether it's building a new motorway or carrying out pharmaceutical trials under the auspices of a DHB. You can't move in certain government departments without meeting with Iwi representatives to ensure something might not offend some small point of Maori culture that hitherto hadn't actually existed. The Treaty industry is not just about obtaining vast wads of cash, it's about ensuring that Maori have a disproportionate voice in a society where they are a minority. And all of this stems from that one little document and Maori's belief that they are somehow entitled to all of this purely because they got to NZ a little before someone else.

[sAsLEX]

Look at the amateurish and hilarious Urewera "terrorist training camps".
What if they had actually been competent, careful, secret, and had been training terrorists, teaching people how to make bombs, cover their tracks, organise properly.

That would mean they probably would of had to stay in school past 4th form.............


I think the most dangerous terrorists would have to be Engineers....... I would say that....... I could cripple the Auckland without too much effort if I was that way inclined and it wouldn't take much either.

[sAsLEX]

But compensation would not be 'getting out of this' at all. Look how the Treaty has entered almost every aspect of governance. Maori custom and opinions must be considered before anything happens, whether it's building a new motorway or carrying out pharmaceutical trials under the auspices of a DHB. You can't move in certain government departments without meeting with Iwi representatives to ensure something might not offend some small point of Maori culture that hitherto hadn't actually existed. The Treaty industry is not just about obtaining vast wads of cash, it's about ensuring that Maori have a disproportionate voice in a society where they are a minority. And all of this stems from that one little document and Maori's belief that they are somehow entitled to all of this purely because they got to NZ a little before someone else.

I did note the backlash from NZ First wanting to reduce immigration and how they were called racist.

NZ has a racist legislation. We are Bi-cultural. Sorry all you Pacific Islanders, Chinese, Indian, British, Pakistanis, Arabs, Americans, French et al but you do not count in NZ. And this is not racist. But NZ First saying it wants to curb the immigration is?

[avgas]

I would also be more sensitive if the children were brought up properly instead of becoming bullies at school giving us "white pigs" shit for our skin colour and calling us racist.

Those ones go overseas. Dont sweat it too much mate. When education fails on people (at home) they usually dont surmount to anything. And grow up as nothing, that cant be bothered doing anything about it.
I hold solace in the though of self-fulfilling prophecies with people i do not care for.
As they go down you can only go up.

[avgas]

I think the most dangerous terrorists would have to be Engineers....... I would say that....... I could cripple the Auckland without too much effort if I was that way inclined and it wouldn't take much either.

Haha you should really read "Atlas Shrugged", it may give you an interesting insight.

[Hitcher]

It should be possible to have a discussion on this topic without resorting to cheap racial stereotyping and other related slander. If this degenerates to a race-based Maori-bashing thread, it will be moved to PD.

Final warning.

[avgas]

There are 1000's of Maori out there that do themselves good.
I have worked with some Maori that are the hardest workers out there.
Lets aim the crap at the paper work and the assholes holding it.

[Ixion]

That would mean they probably would of had to stay in school past 4th form.............


I think the most dangerous terrorists would have to be Engineers....... I would say that....... I could cripple the Auckland without too much effort if I was that way inclined and it wouldn't take much either.

No, chemists or microbiologists. Killing Auckland beats crippling it in the terrorism stakes.

[sAsLEX]

No, chemists or microbiologists. Killing Auckland beats crippling it in the terrorism stakes.

Who makes the chemicals? Who designs the dispersion methods of chemicals?

[riffer]

Oh bollocks.

You should also factor in the umpteen-thousand-years worth of technological development they gained access to.

Going from beating each other to death with rocks tied to the end of sticks to running each other over in Honda Civics with cut springs and tin-can exhausts in a mere couple hundred years has got to be worth something right?

Personally, I have always advocated the Maori being able to have free/exclusive/priority use of their traditional fishing grounds etc. But as long as they use traditional methods. Spears and wakas for fishing, and so forth, y'know.

Fair is fucking fair. Except, apparently, in New Zealand.

Sigh.

People like you also still think that Democracy American style is the best thing that's happened to Iraq.

At the time of Pakeha settlement the Europeans weren't that far ahead technically. In fact as far as sustainable argricultural development goes the Maori had it all over the settlers. Take away Te Rauparaha and his mates and there wasn't a huge amount of head-bashing by the mid 19th century either.

It could definitely be argued that the vast majority of technological development has come after the treaty.

As for fairness, you show me the relevant clause in New Zealand or English legislation that points out that the law must be fair. Hell, show me the clause in the Magna Carta.

This has to be one of the most narrow-minded idiotic posts I've heard in a long time. I suggest you actually go and read some history and find out what really happened. And then try and discuss this topic. Because you're coming across like a New Zealand First voter.

[Coyote]

Those ones go overseas. Dont sweat it too much mate. When education fails on people (at home) they usually dont surmount to anything. And grow up as nothing, that cant be bothered doing anything about it.
I hold solace in the though of self-fulfilling prophecies with people i do not care for.
As they go down you can only go up.

I'm aware of that. http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse....u=dumbassjocks

Maori, as a race, aren't the problem. It's the popular 'gangsta' culture that many of them adhere to, as well as many other people of many other racial backgrounds. And it's not just the youth, the parents are joining in too, wanting to be seen as cool to their hundreds of hell spawn. Plus many other dropkicks rather than working choose to strut around town with bandanas on. Greed is becoming good again with emphasis on bling, spending exorbitant amounts of money on material for image rather than survival and gang violence is common despite there being no reason for conflict other than the colours some of them choose to wear.

Gah!

[Swoop]

Aside from being illegal, requiring the consent of both parties who signed it, it'd be a disaster for New Zealand.

A legal, equitable settlement through the Waitangi Tribunal is our best chance of getting out of this without violence.

Getting rid of it would be the best thing that allows this country to move ahead.

....... cripple the Auckland without too much effort if I was that way inclined and it wouldn't take much either.

This is why Ken Mair was watched closely during his fun and games. Ex bubblehead.