Stealth fighters off to the boneyard.

[Steam]

Yeah maybe, but the target must be closing with the ship in order for the phalanx to engage. The tow aircraft is at the end of a very long cable and well out of danger by the time the target is within the engagement envelope for the phalanx.

The upgrade they're talking about includes manual and automatic targeting, it's basically a $5000 computer, $100 joystick, and $20,000,000 of software.

[mowgli]

The upgrade they're talking about includes manual and automatic targeting, it's basically a $5000 computer, $100 joystick, and $20,000,000 of software.

Yep. The original was design was intended to take out anti-ship missiles. ASMs are still prolific but a more likely threat today is fast inshore attack craft. Phalanx was never designed to track let alone engage targets travelling so slow, hence the need for the upgrade.

[nudemetalz]

Yeah maybe, but the target must be closing with the ship in order for the phalanx to engage. The tow aircraft is at the end of a very long cable and well out of danger by the time the target is within the engagement envelope for the phalanx.

What's tow-aircraft could NZ use?
A Piper Cub or Tiger Moth.....??

[mowgli]

What's tow-aircraft could NZ use?
A Piper Cub or Tiger Moth.....??

Used to be the Aermacchi. Now a learjet.

[MattRSK]

Is America not going to bomb again?

[Coyote]

I've heard that the next generation of fighter bombers are so secret the Govt does not even know they exist.:spudbn::spudbn:


Skyyrder

Aurora Scram Jet. Supposedly, the most publicly well known black project since the original stealth fighter, thanks to the internet. Can't be sure if it's real since it's a 'conspiracy theory' (well not really but that's category all nay sayers chuck things into) but it sure sounds cool

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_aircraft

Believe what you will. It makes for a good story either way

I have Ace Combat 3: Electrosphere. When you damage the Aurora, the AI program sends you to the Electrosphere dimension which is the coolest level on any game ever! It'd be awesome if they made an updated graphics version.

[Coyote]

The upgrade they're talking about includes manual and automatic targeting, it's basically a $5000 computer, $100 joystick, and $20,000,000 of software.

Someone is making money somewhere...

[Brett]

My only comment is that our military is a F&CKEN joke. crop dusters with shotguns and row boats with spear guns.

[Timber020]

Yep. The original was design was intended to take out anti-ship missiles. ASMs are still prolific but a more likely threat today is fast inshore attack craft. Phalanx was never designed to track let alone engage targets travelling so slow, hence the need for the upgrade.

you can imagine a 21st century Bismark vs swordfish problem arising couldnt ya?
The Bismark had an awesome anti aircraft defence management system, capable of taking down any of the most (then) modern fighters the enemy may throw at them.
Problem- The british sent swordfish torpedo bombers, aircraft so pitifully slow that the air defence system couldnt track them as it was set up to fight faster modern aircraft. The result was the planes got through, crippled the bismark and set it up for being sunk by british warships.

Look at the aircraft graveyards outside Tucson on google earth, they are MASSIVE. Might see the F117 there real soon.

[Wally Simmonds]

My only comment is that our military is a F&CKEN joke. crop dusters with shotguns and row boats with spear guns.

I'm pretty sure our military is pretty good for what it is designed to do. There doesn't seem to be as much need for weapons that are used in nation vs nation fights anymore.

[Swoop]

F-22 Replaces F-117
May 20, 2008: The U.S. Air Force has reactivated an F-117 "Stealth Fighter" squadron (the 7th Fighter Squadron) and equipped it with F-22 fighters. Because of its extraordinary performance characteristics, and stealthiness, the F-22 now perform bombing missions previously taken care of by the F117. The most dangerous of these involves attacks on enemy air defense systems. Once those defenses are damaged, less stealthy aircraft can go in with less risk of getting shot down. The F-22 is also the most effective air-to-air fighter available.

The 36 ton F-22 has internal bomb bays, to enhance stealthiness. Thus it can carry two half ton smart bombs, or eight 250 pound SDBs (ground penetrating Small Diameter Bombs) internally, in addition to a pair of air-to-air missiles. If fewer bombs are carried, six air-to-air missiles can go in the four internal bomb bays. Using the external hard points, which makes the aircraft more visible on radar, an F-22 can carry about four tons of bombs and missiles.

The F22 has the most advanced radar and electronic warfare gear of any jet fighter. When you include the cost of research and development, each F-22 ends up costing nearly $400 million. But for pilots in combat, it's money well spent.

The F-117 was based on 1970s technology and entered service in 1983. It was actually a 24 ton light bomber. It had two internal bomb bays, and typically carried two laser guided bombs. The F-117 was not a jet fighter, and was not as stealthy as the F-22. Only 59 were built and, taking inflation into account, cost about as much as a F-22. The last F-117s were retired earlier this year.

[Swoop]

Since the very effective wall has been built around Israel which prevents suicide bombers getting through, the mortar/missile threat has increased. A partial solution is the Phalanx.


May 22, 2008: Although Israel is desperate for a weapon that will defend key targets from Palestinian rockets fired from Gaza, last year they turned down the one system known to work. That's because the system is foreign. It's a modified version of the U.S. Phalanx ship defense system. The Israeli government is still under tremendous pressure to do something, and they don't want to invade and take over Gaza.

There are already two Israeli anti-rocket systems in the works, but it will be several years before these are available for service. Meanwhile, Hamas has greatly increased the number of rockets and mortar shells fired into southern Israel. It's up to several hundred a month.

Two years ago, some Israelis noted that the American and British were already using an effective anti-rocket system; C RAM. This is a modified version of the U.S. Navy Phalanx system, which was originally designed to protect warships from anti-ship missiles. As originally designed, you turned Phalanx on whenever the ship was likely to have an anti-ship missile fired at it. The Phalanx radar can spot incoming missiles out to about 5,000 meters, and the 20mm cannon is effective out to about 2,000 meters. With incoming missiles moving a up to several hundred meters a second, you can see why Phalanx is set to automatic. There's not much time for human intervention, which is why the Phalanx has to be turned on and set to automatically detect and shoot at incoming missiles. But weapons engineers discovered that Phalanx could take out incoming 155mm artillery shells as well. This capability is what led to C-RAM. Now Israel is bringing one of these system to Israel, to see how well it performs in actually defending against Palestinian Kassasm rockets.

Since 2003, there have been two major Phalanx mods. In one, the Phalanx was adapted to use on land, to shoot down incoming rockets. This was done by using a larger artillery spotting radar, which directs Phalanx to fire at incoming mortar shells and rockets. Not all the incoming stuff is hit, but nearly 80 percent of it is, and every little bit helps. The second mod is for shipboard use, and changes the software so the Phalanx can be used against small boats, especially those of the suicide bomber variety.

Two years ago, Israel examined C RAM for possible use in defending northern Israel against another Hizbollah rocket attack. That's where Israelis apparently became aware of how C RAM could be used against Palestinian attacks using more primitive rockets. For defending northern Israel, C-RAM lacked the range to cover a long border against a variety of rocket types. But the home made Palestinian rockets fired from Gaza were another matter. Then, about a year ago, Britain bought a C RAM system to protect its air base in southern Iraq. A C-RAM Phalanx system, which can cover about four kilometers of border, costs $8 million.

C-RAM uses high explosive 20mm shells, that detonate near the target, spraying it with fragments. By the time these fragments reach the ground, they are generally too small to injure anyone. At least that's been the experience in Iraq. The original Phalanx used 20mm depleted uranium shells, to slice through incoming missiles. Phalanx fires shells at the rate of 75 per second. Another advantage of C-RAM, is that it makes a distinctive noise when firing, warning people nearby that a mortar or rocket attack is underway, giving people an opportunity to duck inside if they are out and about.

The first C-RAM was sent to Iraq in late 2006, to protect the Green Zone (the large area in Baghdad turned into an American base). It was found that C-RAM could knock down 70-80 percent of the rockets and mortar shells fired within range of its cannon. Not bad, since it only took about a year to develop C-RAM. Meanwhile, another version, using a high-powered laser, instead of the 20mm gun, is in development.

Israel has several small targets it wants to defend in southern Israel. The most frequent target is the town of Sderot. Since 2001, over 2,000 Kassam (homemade) Palestinian rockets have been fired at Sderot. Ten people have been killed, and over fifty injured. The Israeli army has developed a radar system that provides 10-15 seconds warning, which is enough time to duck into a shelter. But Sderot only has 80 bomb shelters, most of them built 20-30 years ago and in need of repair. If you want to reduce the casualties in Sderot (about one dead or wounded per 30-40 rockets fired), you need to reduce the number of rockets landing. One C RAM system can defend an area about four kilometers in diameter. This makes it possible to defend Sderot with one or two Phalanx guns, and one early warning radar. There's also a power plant and air force base in the south that could eventually be within range of larger Kassam rockets. One or two C RAM Phalanx guns at each would greatly reduce the risk of a Kassam doing any damage.

There are nearly 900 Phalanx systems in use, including some on Israeli warships. Most have not gotten these software mods, that enable the cannot to knock down rockets and shells, as well as incoming anti-ship missiles

[avgas]

Yes lets pour 20M into sinking ships.........shit it worked for the america's cup.
But hey at 20 knots we could get to the enemy in about 2 days.........
The day i tore up my air force enrollment was the day Helen put a nail in the strike wings coffin. Something about giving some sailors a VR ship.......give em a damn xbox for all i care.

[jrandom]

... it's basically a $5000 computer, $100 joystick, and $20,000,000 of software.

Not a bad industry to be in, eh?

Of course, products with less of an inherent market monopoly than Phalanx control systems generally suffer from this horrid thing called 'competition' which tends to make licence prices more reasonable.



I obviously need to get into the 'killing things' business.

[hazard02]

I have Ace Combat 3: Electrosphere. When you damage the Aurora, the AI program sends you to the Electrosphere dimension which is the coolest level on any game ever! It'd be awesome if they made an updated graphics version.

None of the Ace combat titles after Electrosphere were ever as good as this was, damn that was a great game.

I'm sad to hear they're going. A piece of aviation history they are, and still an impressive feat of engineering nearly thirty years after they first flew.