The Great Global Warming Swindle

[Maki]

No, I'm not making such a claim. I am asking for evidence that climate change IS being caused by man. So far none has been provided.

Actually, it has but I guess you never noticed. There is a staggering amount of evidence available.

[Skyryder]

No, I'm not making such a claim. I am asking for evidence that climate change IS being caused by man. So far none has been provided.

Here's some.

http://www.ghgonline.org/humaninfluence.htm


Now it may be bullshit I don't know but untill someone can give an alterntive cause of global warming I'm going for man made on the speed of the climate change alone.


Skyryder

[dipshit]

To what extent may the Earth's rotation around the sun, and the actual tilt of the earth [eg true north and magnetic north] impact upon climate change?
The extent to which there was an ice age, and now conversely a gradual shift in global temperature.

Yes there are natural cycles that have been going on for millions of years.

The trouble is man-made changes that are *compounding to a natural warming cycle* that is creating an unprecedented rise in CO2 that the earth has probably never experienced before.

The consequences of reaching a tipping point to a runaway effect are so severe to life as we know it, it makes any sacrifices and hardships we need to go through now seem pale in comparison.

Usually the cry of "global warming is a conspiracy" is started by redneck Americans that don't want to give up their pickups and SUVs.

[avgas]

Global warming is a hoax, the planet dying is not.
But no - don't think for yourselves, thats to hard. Follow the rest of the sheep, pay your power bills and live on the dream the supply is continuous and infinite. Burn petrol while you pay into pockets of fat ugly greedy men. Pump crap into the atmosphere like no tomorrow cos you only have to think about you and not your kids future.
Shit it worked for china.

[munterk6]

everyones a scientist eh....wheww, never knew we had such a wealth of knowlege on this forum. I'll get ma coat.

[Ocean1]

You do not have to be a rocket scientist to acknowledge that man made Co2emmisions have created global warming.

Correct. You have to be an Idiot.

The trouble is man-made changes that are *compounding to a natural warming cycle* that is creating an unprecedented rise in CO2 that the earth has probably never experienced before.

Unprecedented? Since last week? Check your facts.

[Jantar]

... Just look at our own climate change and receeding glaciers.

Skyryder

OK. You set me a challenge with this, so I have just spent the better part of an afternoon doing just that. I went to the NIWA Climate Database http://cliflo.niwa.co.nz/ (anyone can register to obtain data) and checked for a rural temperature station with the longest complete record. Hokitika fits the bill with just 2 data items missing since 1884.

Here is that data. There has been no warming in Hokitika.

As for the Glaciers. I'll next see if I can find the research by Dr Jim Salinger where he shows that NZ's glaciers are advancing, not retreating.


Edit: I should add that the Hokitika site changed from Hokitika South to the airport in 1964. The airport site is an average of 0.26C warmer than the south site, so for accuracy I should have modified the chart by -0.26 from 1964 to 2008.

[Maki]

OK. You set me a challenge with this, so I have just spent the better part of an afternoon doing just that. I went to the NIWA Climate Database http://cliflo.niwa.co.nz/ (anyone can register to obtain data) and checked for a rural temperature station with the longest complete record. Hokitika fits the bill with just 2 data items missing since 1884.

Here is that data. There has been no warming in Hokitika.

As for the Glaciers. I'll next see if I can find the research by Dr Jim Salinger where he shows that NZ's glaciers are advancing, not retreating.

They called it global warming, and not warming in Hokitika for a reason...

NZs glaciers are not just retreating, some of them are disappearing.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/...ectid=10476881

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/...ectid=10505856

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat...ers_since_1850

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/17/sc...17glacier.html

http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming..../glaciers.html

etc. etc....

[dipshit]

Unprecedented? Since last week? Check your facts.

Well if like in the graph i posted - if in the last 400,000 years CO2 hasn't risen past 300ppm and then suddenly we find ourselves at 375ppm, i would say that was unusual.

What facts are you talking about?

[Hitcher]

Whether or not you "believe" the global warming science or not, living more sustainably makes a lot of sense, surely?

[Maki]

Whether or not you "believe" the global warming science or not, living more sustainably makes a lot of sense, surely?

Not to some people apparently... They tend to angrily denounce anything that they see as a threat to their current "lifestyle".

[Jantar]

Whether or not you "believe" the global warming science or not, living more sustainably makes a lot of sense, surely?

I agree 100%. But that is a totally diferent discussion to the one about whether or not man is changing the climate.

[jrandom]

Whether or not you "believe" the global warming science or not, living more sustainably makes a lot of sense, surely?

I heartily agree, and note in addition that you are leading the way by riding a motorcycle of smaller cubic capacity and greater fuel economy than mine.

I am ashamed.

[dipshit]

Here is that data. There has been no warming in Hokitika.

Hokitika is coastal and is largely going to be influenced by ocean temperatures. Try looking up some inland areas.

As for the Glaciers. I'll next see if I can find the research by Dr Jim Salinger where he shows that NZ's glaciers are advancing, not retreating.

Only two glaciers have been advancing recently. Fox and Franz Josef. Why? Because they are short period glaciers that only take 5 years or so from snowfall to terminus. Short-term increases in snowfall will see them advancing.

Bigger glaciers however like the Tasman which is 800 years from snowfall to terminus has been steadily retreating, showing the longer overall trend.

[scott411]

Whether or not you "believe" the global warming science or not, living more sustainably makes a lot of sense, surely?

very good point, but i do not see how 'carbon trading' or the Kyoto protocol is going to fix the problem, it is just another tax