Singh family complaining about the police

[spudchucka]

Now , why is that whenever the police are shown in a bad light you rush in and accuse everybody in the matter of lying. Are you really accusing the Singhs and all the other people who were there of lying.

Well, yes, I guess if the whole country hates the police so much that they've entered into a giant conspiracy to lie about them .... ?

I didn't accuse anyone of lying, you did. I simply asked a question.

[Maki]

Because the media reports have said that the people in the shop who called 111 said that the baddies had left the building.

This of course means, on planet Ixion, that the baddies couldn't possibly be anywhere in the vicinity; nor could a patrol possibly come across them in their poxy little black Mazda Astina fleeing the scene; nor could the baddies have gone off to the booze barn down the road to pull the same stunt there.

There could always be "baddies" out there, so I guess the police should lock their doors, stay at home and shit their pants.

Clearly people need to take care of their own problems, get people who are bleeding to death to the hospital and deal with baddies themselves.

It makes you wonder what cops are good for these days... Oh yes, they are still able to harrass motorists...

[scumdog]

It makes you wonder what cops are good for these days... Oh yes, they are still able to harrass motorists...

Ain't you just lucky you'll NEVER need one eh??

[spudchucka]

There could always be "baddies" out there, so I guess the police should lock their doors, stay at home and shit their pants.

Clearly people need to take care of their own problems, get people who are bleeding to death to the hospital and deal with baddies themselves.

It makes you wonder what cops are good for these days... Oh yes, they are still able to harrass motorists...

How many armed incidents have you attended mate?

What is your practical experience in dealing with armed offenders?

Or are you just another blah blah know it all armchair critic born of the great New Zealand knocking machine?

[jrandom]

What I find odd is the lack of emphasis on the fact that presumably, had the initial Police responders been armed, they would indeed have charged in to the rescue.

Armed Police putting themselves in harm's way when law-abiding citizens are threatened by armed criminals is pretty much par for the course in most jurisdictions around the world, is it not?

Now, I hope that the Tazer is approved for carry shortly, but I also hope that we can finally abandon the fantasy that our Police should go forth without the means to deal with criminals holding guns.

If the officers who turned up to that scene in the first patrol car were wearing Type III body armour instead of lightweight stabproof vests, and had Glocks on their belts and a Bushmaster in the trunk, that 25 minutes would presumably have been more like 3.

[Maki]

Ain't you just lucky you'll NEVER need one eh??

I am sure I will need one some time or other. I just won't be able to count on them because they are scared of baddies.

[scumdog]

I am sure I will need one some time or other. I just won't be able to count on them because they are scared of baddies.

In that case call the baddies instead - after all, they won't be scared of the cops, will they??

[Maki]

Actually I think my local baddies would deal with any issues a lot more effectivly than some other organizations...

[scumdog]

Actually I think my local baddies would deal with any issues a lot more effectivly than some other organizations...

Of course they would...of course they would - and al would be well.

As long as you (in their eyes) weren't one of these 'issues'.

[spudchucka]

What I find odd is the lack of emphasis on the fact that presumably, had the initial Police responders been armed, they would indeed have charged in to the rescue.

Armed Police putting themselves in harm's way when law-abiding citizens are threatened by armed criminals is pretty much par for the course in most jurisdictions around the world, is it not?

Now, I hope that the Tazer is approved for carry shortly, but I also hope that we can finally abandon the fantasy that our Police should go forth without the means to deal with criminals holding guns.

If the officers who turned up to that scene in the first patrol car were wearing Type III body armour instead of lightweight stabproof vests, and had Glocks on their belts and a Bushmaster in the trunk, that 25 minutes would presumably have been more like 3.

At least there are some that can see past the bullshit posted by Ixion, Maki and the like.

The cops as first responders to an armed incident have to arm themselves first. (Don't even bother with the "the shop keeper said they had left" argument because armed incidents will always require an armed response regardless of what anyone is saying over the phone to police comms).

If they are away from their station they have to return in order to be able to arm themselves. (Occasionally there might be arms available in a Sergeants car but this still requires rallying at a SFP in order to issue the arms).

Once at the station the cop has to remove their stab resistant body armour (SRBA) because it isn't ballistic grade. They have to remove their duty belt, (the thing that the hand cuffs etc go on) from the SRBA.

They have to adjust the duty belt to fit so that it doesn't fall off their hips because with SRBA it is designed to attach to the bottom of the SRBA and to hang relatively loosely, if they don't adjust it it won't stay up. The duty belt is a semi rigid design that is not too easy to adjust, unlike the old leather ones with a two pronged belt buckle.

They have to attach a glock holster and a bushmaster ammo pouch to the duty belt.

They have to draw the weapons, carry out safety precautions with the weapons and sign the register.

They have to uplift a set of ballistic body armour and fit it.

They have to be briefed on what has happened and formulate a plan.

Etc etc etc etc.

Is it any wonder that there are delays?

Wake up New Zealand and arm your police!

[devnull]

At least there are some that can see past the bullshit posted by Ixion, Maki and the like.

The cops as first responders to an armed incident have to arm themselves first. (Don't even bother with the "the shop keeper said they had left" argument because armed incidents will always require an armed response regardless of what anyone is saying over the phone to police comms).

If they are away from their station they have to return in order to be able to arm themselves. (Occasionally there might be arms available in a Sergeants car but this still requires rallying at a SFP in order to issue the arms).

Once at the station the cop has to remove their stab resistant body armour (SRBA) because it isn't ballistic grade. They have to remove their duty belt, (the thing that the hand cuffs etc go on) from the SRBA.

They have to adjust the duty belt to fit so that it doesn't fall off their hips because with SRBA it is designed to attach to the bottom of the SRBA and to hang relatively loosely, if they don't adjust it it won't stay up. The duty belt is a semi rigid design that is not too easy to adjust, unlike the old leather ones with a two pronged belt buckle.

They have to attach a glock holster and a bushmaster ammo pouch to the duty belt.

They have to draw the weapons, carry out safety precautions with the weapons and sign the register.

They have to uplift a set of ballistic body armour and fit it.

They have to be briefed on what has happened and formulate a plan.

Etc etc etc etc.

Is it any wonder that there are delays?

Wake up New Zealand and arm your police!

Well said!!

I'd even go one further - STOP penalising the law-abiding public.
Our politicians (not the Police), have created a climate that favours the criminal, not the victim.

The bloke that shot the machete wielder in the gun shop - why was this not dismissed as soon as it was filed?
The old guy down the line that shot out the tyres of a car of young crims - found guilty.

I don't believe in the victim mentality that the politicians are peddling.
We all have the right to defend ourselves, our family, and our property (even if the current laws say you can't)

All the above cases tell the public is that you should kill rather than maim... (and dispose of the bodies carefully)

[Edbear]

What I find odd is the lack of emphasis on the fact that presumably, had the initial Police responders been armed, they would indeed have charged in to the rescue.

Armed Police putting themselves in harm's way when law-abiding citizens are threatened by armed criminals is pretty much par for the course in most jurisdictions around the world, is it not?

Now, I hope that the Tazer is approved for carry shortly, but I also hope that we can finally abandon the fantasy that our Police should go forth without the means to deal with criminals holding guns.

If the officers who turned up to that scene in the first patrol car were wearing Type III body armour instead of lightweight stabproof vests, and had Glocks on their belts and a Bushmaster in the trunk, that 25 minutes would presumably have been more like 3.

Will you please stop being logical...!? This is KB!!!!

[Maki]

If they are away from their station they have to return in order to be able to arm themselves. (Occasionally there might be arms available in a Sergeants car but this still requires rallying at a SFP in order to issue the arms).

Once at the station the cop has to remove their stab resistant body armour (SRBA) because it isn't ballistic grade. They have to remove their duty belt, (the thing that the hand cuffs etc go on) from the SRBA.

They have to adjust the duty belt to fit so that it doesn't fall off their hips because with SRBA it is designed to attach to the bottom of the SRBA and to hang relatively loosely, if they don't adjust it it won't stay up. The duty belt is a semi rigid design that is not too easy to adjust, unlike the old leather ones with a two pronged belt buckle.

They have to attach a glock holster and a bushmaster ammo pouch to the duty belt.

They have to draw the weapons, carry out safety precautions with the weapons and sign the register.

They have to uplift a set of ballistic body armour and fit it.

They have to be briefed on what has happened and formulate a plan.

Etc etc etc etc.

Is it any wonder that there are delays?

Wake up New Zealand and arm your police!

You forgot, then they need to ask their mother for permission to go out at night.

And then they need to go to Starbucks for a donut, and then they need to take a dump, and then they need to....

Maybe, in a big city such as Auckland their should actually be cops sitting there that are READY to respond to an armed offender, especially on a Saturday night.

Having to go through all that rigmarole just jeapordizes the lives of the public further, after all people caring for bleeding gunshot victims don't have time to put on and adjust the various belts, that "if they don't adjust it it won't stay up". (Maybe all they need is a diet).

Maybe the police should be ready to do the job we need them to do....
Or maybe that's just too hard...

[jrandom]

The bloke that shot the machete wielder in the gun shop - why was this not dismissed as soon as it was filed?

Because the cops have to uphold the law, and the law currently states that you're not allowed to have a loaded firearm handy in a shop to deal with armed robbers.

All weasel words aside, that's precisely what Greg Carvell had and used, so it was difficult for the cops not to charge him with storing a firearm inappropriately.

No charges were laid in relation to the shooting itself. It was obviously justified.

Yes, that's a brain-dead contradiction in the law that should be debated, but you can't blame the cops for enforcing it.

[jrandom]

Maybe the police should be ready to do the job we need them to do...

I'm sure they'd love to be, but as spudchucka pointed out, they're not allowed to be. They have to leave their weapons at the station until something actually happens.

If you want to write to your MP and ask what can be done to change this rule, I'm sure you'll have plenty of cops backing you.