Singh family complaining about the police

[Patrick]

Fuck I didn't know coppers had a sense of humor...bahahaha......and yeah thinkin' about leaving Auckland, where's a good destination? [with no crime and great roads]

Stewart Island.

Spud and I make two??? Scummys a nudist, and you can't tell which way he is facing when he smiles... but he's a funny one too....

Oh, never knew that, I looked in all my books and can't find that 'dollar figure' - maybe you could tell me how much it is???

BTW: Lost out today, no dollars collected.

None since September 07 either - damn... Quotas...... Revenue Collecting....

You know, it's a funny thing... The more liberalised the laws become, the more problems we have in society, do you really think there is a connection..?

On the other hand, we want freedom to do whatever we want, insisting we can control ourselves and don't need all these laws.

While some, or maybe most of us can exercise self-control and common-sense, it is apparent that far too many can't, hence we have our Police tearing their hair out at what they face every day in the streets.

The reality, as maybe opposed to what we think should be, is that if you make "bad stuff", (alcohol, smokes, drugs, etc.), freely, or more, available there are plenty of people who will use/abuse/take advantage of same. The reality, is that this is the way it is, and no amount of complaining about laws or law enforcement is going to make it go away.

If you think the Police are in some way handling things poorly, go out on patrol with them. If you think the laws are being unfairly introduced, or are draconian or inadequate, sit down with those who make them, sit in on the committees and listen to the discussions among the pollies who have to make the laws, follow their research, read the studies and papers they read.

Go into the emergency rooms at the hospitals on Friday and Saturday nights and watch what the Drs. and Nurses have to endure. See the situation for yourself, first-hand. See the blood, see the violence, see the drugged-up young people attacking anything and anyone.

Then you may comment...

Does 23 years of this shit mean I can comment? Good....

"No comment... "

But bloody good post!

[scracha]

Then you may comment...

Utter bollox....no offence like. Other countries (e.g. France) manage to have every second "dairy" selling alcohol without massive problems. Like much other crime, the real culprit isn't the availability or price of alcohol, it's the soft sentencing that goes hand in hand with the "My client was drunk M'Lud" defence. If dickheads who punch people when drunk faced the real prospect of a few days in a small hotel room with "bubba" instead of a $200 fine then I'm pretty sure there'd be more responsible drinking.

Prohibit one substance and another fix will take it's place.

[HenryDorsetCase]

S'funny: all that talk of "ban it" and whatever. I have a firmly held belief that there shouldn't be any illegal drugs, because banning stuff JUST DOES NOT WORK. It never has and it never will. You want to jack up heroin? fine with me. You want to get on the crank. go for your life. You like to get pissed and fall down, thats fine too.

Where society needs to draw the line is when the consequences of your actions reach out beyond your own denuded and delightful self, and detrimentally affect others: You drink and drive, say, or you steal shit to feed your smack habit, or you get cranked up and crack someone's head. That affects someone else, you pay. I also firmly believe in the death penalty, not really so much as a deterrent, because after all people are dumb fucks most of the time, but simply as an economic measure: cost of keeping some dirtbag in prison fed, clothed and watered with three squares a day and no prospect of rehabilitation vs cost of two 9mm rounds to the temple sort of thing. As a taxpayer, I object to scumbags having nicer accommodation than my first house (and yes I've visited a prison, and no, I'm not joking).

Personal responsibility is the key. Its all very well to whine and whinge but no one holds a gun to someones head and says "NOw go rob that liquor store": someone decided that would be a good thing to do, and a bunch of his mates went along for the ride: they're all guilty, they all pay.

It's just not that hard: Dont expect the government to do anything, do it yourself.

Oh, and I also think all our police should be armed, all the time, and they don't need those silly bushmaster (sounds like a porno from the '70's) they need shotguns. 7 shot pump action remington 12 gauges with folding stocks, or AA-10s.

So, yeah, you asked, thats what I think. How about that local sports team?

[devnull]

S'funny: all that talk of "ban it" and whatever. I have a firmly held belief that there shouldn't be any illegal drugs, because banning stuff JUST DOES NOT WORK. It never has and it never will. You want to jack up heroin? fine with me. You want to get on the crank. go for your life. You like to get pissed and fall down, thats fine too.

Where society needs to draw the line is when the consequences of your actions reach out beyond your own denuded and delightful self, and detrimentally affect others: You drink and drive, say, or you steal shit to feed your smack habit, or you get cranked up and crack someone's head. That affects someone else, you pay. I also firmly believe in the death penalty, not really so much as a deterrent, because after all people are dumb fucks most of the time, but simply as an economic measure: cost of keeping some dirtbag in prison fed, clothed and watered with three squares a day and no prospect of rehabilitation vs cost of two 9mm rounds to the temple sort of thing. As a taxpayer, I object to scumbags having nicer accommodation than my first house (and yes I've visited a prison, and no, I'm not joking).

Personal responsibility is the key. Its all very well to whine and whinge but no one holds a gun to someones head and says "NOw go rob that liquor store": someone decided that would be a good thing to do, and a bunch of his mates went along for the ride: they're all guilty, they all pay.

It's just not that hard: Dont expect the government to do anything, do it yourself.

Oh, and I also think all our police should be armed, all the time, and they don't need those silly bushmaster (sounds like a porno from the '70's) they need shotguns. 7 shot pump action remington 12 gauges with folding stocks, or AA-10s.

So, yeah, you asked, thats what I think. How about that local sports team?

Couldn't agree more.

The soft-cock attitude of our politicians is a disgrace.
Labour has never been hard on crime - probably has something to do with the pool they draw their voters from

Capital punishment needs to be back in the law books, and judges need to grow a pair and start dishing it out to these murderers. If they don't, it's only a matter of time before the community does...

Spot on regarding the Bushmasters. A high velocity .223 round is not what is needed - it goes one hell of a long way if you miss the intended target, and TBH, cops don't get enough range time as it is. A centrefire is just playing into the hands of the anti-gun lobby.

[davereid]

S'funny: all that talk of "ban it" and whatever... banning stuff JUST DOES NOT WORK...
....I also think all our police should be armed, all the time, and they don't need those silly bushmaster...

Of course alcohol is a catalyst for a lot of criminal activity.

But to suggest restricting alcohol availability or pricing is the solution is not really likely.

If it were, easy access to alcohol would reflect in higher crime rates.

Yet... crime rates (expressed as % of people victimised by crime per annum)

#1 Australia: 30.1%
#2 New Zealand: 29.4%
#3 United Kingdom: 26.4%
#4 Netherlands: 25.2%
#5 Sweden: 24.7%
#6 Italy: 24.6%
#7 Canada: 23.8%
#8 Saint Kitts and Nevis: 23.2%
#9 Malta: 23.1%
#10 Denmark: 23%
#11 Poland: 22.7%
#12 Belgium: 21.4%
#13 France: 21.4%
#14 Slovenia: 21.2%
#15 United States: 21.1%
#16 Finland: 19.1%
#17 Austria: 18.8%
#18 Switzerland: 18.2%
#19 Portugal: 15.5%
#20 Japan: 15.2%

Shit ! Amazing !

Aus/NZ/UK have some of the worlds tightest alcohol laws.
Yet we have the worst rates of crime.

You can buy alcohol from vending machines in Japan ! No age check, just stuff the loot in. Very cheap. Everywhere. 24hrs a day.

Surely it can't be something else... ?

[Edbear]

Utter bollox....no offence like. Other countries (e.g. France) manage to have every second "dairy" selling alcohol without massive problems. Like much other crime, the real culprit isn't the availability or price of alcohol, it's the soft sentencing that goes hand in hand with the "My client was drunk M'Lud" defence. If dickheads who punch people when drunk faced the real prospect of a few days in a small hotel room with "bubba" instead of a $200 fine then I'm pretty sure there'd be more responsible drinking.

Prohibit one substance and another fix will take it's place.

I agree with you here, too, I wasn't talking about prohibition, just the observation that when you make access easier, more will "access"!

[spudchucka]

Spot on regarding the Bushmasters. A high velocity .223 round is not what is needed - it goes one hell of a long way if you miss the intended target, and TBH, cops don't get enough range time as it is. A centrefire is just playing into the hands of the anti-gun lobby.

Most police shootings happen within about 5 metres from the target. Even cross eyed fumble fingers can hit a man from that distance with a little training. Dogs running around in circles is another story though, probably should have napalm for them critters.

[spudchucka]

Aus/NZ/UK have some of the worlds tightest alcohol laws. Yet we have the worst rates of crime.

The three countries mentioned are also well known for their binge drinking cultures.

"Its not the drinking, its how we're drinking"!!

[davereid]

The three countries mentioned are also well known for their binge drinking cultures.

"Its not the drinking, its how we're drinking"!!

Yes, entirely true... but our drinking culture is but a learner compared to the japanese.

The japs invented binge drinking. They love it. They are far better that it than us. They just manage to do it without bashing each other up.

So do the Austrians, and the Swiss, but they arent as violent as us either.

Here is how we drink overall...we are hardly on the chart for alcohol, but manage to be on the podium for crime.


#1 Luxembourg: 15.5 litres per capita
#2 France: 14.8 litres per capita
#3 Ireland: 13.5 litres per capita
#4 Hungary: 13.4 litres per capita
#5 Czech Republic: 12.1 litres per capita
#6 Spain: 11.7 litres per capita
#7 Denmark: 11.5 litres per capita
#8 Portugal: 11.4 litres per capita
#9 United Kingdom: 11.2 litres per capita
#10 Austria: 11.1 litres per capita
#11 Switzerland: 10.8 litres per capita
#12 Belgium: 10.7 litres per capita
#13 Germany: 10.2 litres per capita
#14 Australia: 9.8 litres per capita
#15 Netherlands: 9.7 litres per capita
#16 Korea, South: 9.3 litres per capita
#17 Finland: 9.3 litres per capita
#18 Greece: 9.2 litres per capita
#19 New Zealand: 8.9 litres per capita
#20 United States: 8.3 litres per capita
#21 Poland: 8.1 litres per capita
#22 Italy: 8 litres per capita
#23 Canada: 7.8 litres per capita
#24 Slovakia: 7.6 litres per capita
#25 Japan: 7.6 litres per capita
#26 Sweden: 7 litres per capita
#27 Iceland: 6.5 litres per capita
#28 Norway: 6 litres per capita
#29 Mexico: 4.6 litres per capita
#30 Turkey: 1.5 litres per capita

[HenryDorsetCase]

Most police shootings happen within about 5 metres from the target. Even cross eyed fumble fingers can hit a man from that distance with a little training. Dogs running around in circles is another story though, probably should have napalm for them critters.

so a high velocity .223 round goes straight thru some P-ed up or pissed up crackhead, he goes "Ow that hurts a bit" but continues to advance.

A shotgun from 5m: he WILL Fall over. It won't be pretty, but he also won't get up again any time soon. and the lower velocity spread shot is less likely to go thru walls, buildings or bystanders with lethal effect than the .223 round mentioned above. Its not like its target shooting at 50m, if some fuckwith advances on an armed pleecemin and doesnt stop when asked then he takes the consequences, end of story, no handwriging. I'm not sayng I could do it, or I envy anyone put in the situation, or anything like that, and I am sure it would be well traumatic for the cop, but thats kind of what they signed up for. That and the cool cars and huuuuuge money and stuff.



enough ranting. Ive missed the bike I was after on tardme (by $10....) so I am going to bed.

[devnull]

Most police shootings happen within about 5 metres from the target. Even cross eyed fumble fingers can hit a man from that distance with a little training. Dogs running around in circles is another story though, probably should have napalm for them critters.

hehe... I wasn't going to mention the dog incident

Seriously though, a 12 gauge will achieve a better outcome at close range, with less risk (for everyone).

Tactical 00 buckshot stays pretty tight, even with an unchoked barrel.

And if you need range, it's not difficult to slip a solid into the mag...

[scumdog]

so a high velocity .223 round goes straight thru some P-ed up or pissed up crackhead, he goes "Ow that hurts a bit" but continues to advance.

A shotgun from 5m: he WILL Fall over. It won't be pretty, but he also won't get up again any time soon. and the lower velocity spread shot is less likely to go thru walls, buildings or bystanders with lethal effect than the .223 round mentioned above. Its not like its target shooting at 50m, if some fuckwith advances on an armed pleecemin and doesnt stop when asked then he takes the consequences, end of story, no handwriging. I'm not sayng I could do it, or I envy anyone put in the situation, or anything like that, and I am sure it would be well traumatic for the cop, but thats kind of what they signed up for. That and the cool cars and huuuuuge money and stuff.



enough ranting. Ive missed the bike I was after on tardme (by $10....) so I am going to bed.

Shotguns with buckshot have 9 pellets the same weight as a 223 - ok, maybe not as fast but IF you don't get all nine pellets on the target you'l have 4 or 5 or 6 pellets whistling off into the far yonder.

Any shot over 20 metres will have one or more pellets not fitting onto the target most of the time.

A 223 as used by Police is VERY unlikely to penetrate the torso of a human being, in fact I'd pretty much say it wouldn't - and if it did it would be a shitload lighter and slower than when it went in, certainly be a fluke if it had enough energy to hurt anybody.
And the huuuuuge money? shoot, can't even afford to pay somebody to fix my Suzuki!!

[scumdog]

hehe... I wasn't going to mention the dog incident

Seriously though, a 12 gauge will achieve a better outcome at close range, with less risk (for everyone).

Tactical 00 buckshot stays pretty tight, even with an unchoked barrel.

And if you need range, it's not difficult to slip a solid into the mag...

But with a bushmaster you have 20 shots to play with, better range, compact size and a bullet that won't overpenetrate.

Ya seen what a solid slig does to ANYTHING? - an 'oops sorry' won't quite cover it if you hit something you were not meant to.

And all this 'buckshot out and slugs in' will only end up in tears, believe me, it happens even when hunting when there's no real pressure on.

[scumdog]

Spot on regarding the Bushmasters. A high velocity .223 round is not what is needed - it goes one hell of a long way if you miss the intended target, and TBH, cops don't get enough range time as it is. A centrefire is just playing into the hands of the anti-gun lobby.

See my above post regarding shotguns and the spread of buckshot - the old rule of thumb is: "One inch of spread for every yard of travel".

IF a baddie is hit centre mass (or even the legs, head) with a Police 223 round there won't be any worthwhile bullet or fragments that will carry on right through.

In fact very little will get through.

[devnull]

TBH scummie... 00 doesn't spread very much. i.e. about 8" at 30 yards. (I should mention, that 00 is only 5 or 6 big chunks of lead)

Grab a shotgun, a piece of paper, and try it out (shotguns are still the preferred weapon for most soldiers when fighting in close quarters). I think you'll be surprised

A solid is pretty unforgiving, but it does give you more range. Popping one into a mag then pumping the next round in is just practice, just the same as clearing stoppages or changing mags on a rifle

A solid will easily pass through a car door, and give whoever's inside a very bad day.

Given that cops tend to hesitate before shooting (at least the ones I've seen on ranges do), having to place a shot carefully at close range is asking a lot. Ideal placement for a .223 round is in the upper chest - at close range, with an offender rushing you, the chances of that happening is pretty small.

Plus, the intimidation factor of the 12 gauge barrel means that you may not even have to pull the trigger

To offer some balance, here's an interesting article on the effectiveness of the .223
http://www.steyr-aug.com/223forcqb.htm

but I still think that unless the Police give staff a whole shitload more range time (e.g. 24 hours per month instead of per year), it's a recipe for disaster.