Tax cuts explained?

[alanzs]

I know this is a popular view among some people but the reality of the real world defies the supposed conspiracy. Cars today are so cheap as to be almost disposable. Technology in the form of cellphones, ipods, computers abounds. We throw away food. Cafes, restaurants, bars, and fast food businesses are everywhere and patronised by the average punter.

If wealth was restricted in the hands of the few, we'd look like Africa where that is true. But not here - lucky us.

I'm not much on conspiracy theories, but the world economic reality is that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. I'm not saying this is evil or bad, it's just what it is. I am all for capitalism. I like how Bill Gates has been espousing "Compassionate Capitalism." Capitalism with a heart.

I don't know the statistics here in NZ. I'd assume it isn't much different than most other western nations. The majority of the wealth is in the hands of a few. Again, I'm not making any moral judgment on this.

[Winston001]

Fallacious bollocks, written for the low-IQ masses.

I shudder to see how little effort is required to manipulate the minds of the proletariat.

Sheesh, don't be so mealy-mouthed - let it out man!! Feel the rage.

[jrandom]

Sheesh, don't be so mealy-mouthed - let it out man!! Feel the rage.

That's disappointing. I thought you might have responded with some thoughtful debate on the subject of taxation.

[alanzs]

Hi Alanz - good on you for being a teacher. I'm just a bit doubtful that your post represents open-mindedness. You aren't questioning anything - which open-mindedness requires, instead you are stating a political opinion. No problem with you having an opinion, but its not the same as being open to other ideas.

I chose to become a primary school teacher after many years in the business world at a fairly high level (in my own mind at least). Took a huge pay cut to do it, so it wasn't done rashly. Kids are our future. I have very high standards and push all the students to achieve their personal best. Something many of them sorely need. I work in a lower decile school, where many of the kids goals when they grow up are to get on the dole like all their family or maybe work at KFC. Some of the kids have no relatives that work at a job, unless you count working at a tinnie house.

Nothing wrong with business or making money. I think unbridled capitalism has the potential to be very in-humane. I have seen it and unfortunately, participated in it.

I am very open to other ideas, truly. Having an opinion, isn't mutually exclusive with being open minded. I don't have to be wrong for you to be right, and visa versa.

Would anyone really disagree that there is an agenda to accumulate wealth by those on the right end of the political spectrum? I don't think the National party leaders would say they aren't for making more money. Or, would they?

I think the left probably wants to redistribute the wealth of the right. Please enlighten me. I'm open to more knowledge.

[Lias]

Would anyone really disagree that there is an agenda to accumulate wealth by those on the right end of the political spectrum? I don't think the National party leaders would say they aren't for making more money. Or, would they?

Plenty of right wing people who arnt rich. Heard of this little group called the working class?

[avgas]

hehe classic right up - sad thing was that it goes to show the all of NZ is alcoholics

[alanzs]

Plenty of right wing people who arnt rich. Heard of this little group called the working class?

I'd be one of them workers. I remember an old saying "When you're young, if you're not a liberal, you don't have a heart. When you're old, if your not a conservative, you don't have a brain."

I'd say I am socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I want to keep my money but don't care what others do with theirs. Something like that.

[Robert Taylor]

I'd be one of them workers. I remember an old saying "When you're young, if you're not a liberal, you don't have a heart. When you're old, if your not a conservative, you don't have a brain."

I'd say I am socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I want to keep my money but don't care what others do with theirs. Something like that.

I have no problem with people making money as long as it is not exclusively from speculation. To that end I have a real problem with stock traders ( yes John Key is amogst those ) and real estate agents. Making money should require reasojnable effort. Capitalism that benefits the country and carries along people with it enrichening their well being is all good. I have a problem with the big multinationals and just as much problem with socialists who over-zealously prey on the wealth producers and stifle ambition.Conservatism, capitalism and compassion could co-exist if those in charge had social ethics.
That so many ambitious people have left these shores over the last dark 9 years of the most dickhead ''government'' in our history is indicative of a major problem.

[alanzs]

I have no problem with people making money as long as it is not exclusively from speculation. To that end I have a real problem with stock traders ( yes John Key is amogst those ) and real estate agents. Making money should require reasojnable effort. Capitalism that benefits the country and carries along people with it enrichening their well being is all good. I have a problem with the big multinationals and just as much problem with socialists who over-zealously prey on the wealth producers and stifle ambition.Conservatism, capitalism and compassion could co-exist if those in charge had social ethics.
That so many ambitious people have left these shores over the last dark 9 years of the most dickhead ''government'' in our history is indicative of a major problem.

Very well said!

[Winston001]

That's disappointing. I thought you might have responded with some thoughtful debate on the subject of taxation.

Hmmmm.....I'm thinking......Let them eat cake?.......


Taxation is theft.

What is the difference between a taxidermist and a tax collector? The taxidermist takes only your skin.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.

There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want, merely because you think it would be good for him.

Parliament can raise taxes because it can persuade a sizable fraction of the populace that somebody else will pay.

The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest amount of feathers with the least amount of hissing.

A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money.

[Pussy]

Hmmmm.....I'm thinking......Let them eat cake?.......


Taxation is theft.

What is the difference between a taxidermist and a tax collector? The taxidermist takes only your skin.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.

There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want, merely because you think it would be good for him.

Parliament can raise taxes because it can persuade a sizable fraction of the populace that somebody else will pay.

The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest amount of feathers with the least amount of hissing.

A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money.

There's some goodies there, Winston! love your work

[davereid]

Well said Winston...

Somehow the socialists seem to think that violence is just fine... as long as its used to take money off the unwilling to fund social programs..

[alanzs]

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.

A classic Homer Simpson moment.

[Winston001]

I chose to become a primary school teacher after many years in the business world at a fairly high level (in my own mind at least). Took a huge pay cut to do it, so it wasn't done rashly. Kids are our future. I have very high standards and push all the students to achieve their personal best. Something many of them sorely need. I work in a lower decile school, where many of the kids goals when they grow up are to get on the dole like all their family or maybe work at KFC. Some of the kids have no relatives that work at a job, unless you count working at a tinnie house.

Nothing wrong with business or making money. I think unbridled capitalism has the potential to be very in-humane. I have seen it and unfortunately, participated in it.

I am very open to other ideas, truly. Having an opinion, isn't mutually exclusive with being open minded. I don't have to be wrong for you to be right, and visa versa.

Agreed, what is important is to offer open-ended questions challenging the status quo. You can then lead a debate in the direction which your views support but must also express the contrary arguments.

For example, asking your students why people work at all? They'll say "money" but its far more than that. Work gives people a purpose, a circle of friends, a sense of being useful, achievement etc etc. Ask them what society would look like if no-one worked? Ok, you'd have to be gentle, no point alienating the kids, but these are ideas probably not discussed at home.

Would anyone really disagree that there is an agenda to accumulate wealth by those on the right end of the political spectrum? I don't think the National party leaders would say they aren't for making more money. Or, would they?

I think the left probably wants to redistribute the wealth of the right. Please enlighten me. I'm open to more knowledge.

Agenda isn't the best word because it has an tone of conspiracy, plotting, grabbing power. Belief is more simple and fits. The accumulation of wealth is vested in every human's desire for security. Plenty of food, a big dry cave safe from attack, and the ability to provide for and protect a family.

The trouble is some folk have multiple caves while others crowd into just one. The Left want to share the caves out evenly. The Right want to rent the spare caves to the Left.

[Winston001]

I remember an old saying "When you're young, if you're not a liberal, you don't have a heart. When you're old, if your not a conservative, you don't have a brain."

Winston Churchill.