Pay cut????????? In THIS economic environment? Poor sods!Originally Posted by sAsLEX
Weapons of Mass Acceleration
Pay cut????????? In THIS economic environment? Poor sods!
I'ma get medieval on your ass!
Agreed regarding the travesty suffered by the good name of Charlie Upham.
Mowgli - I've got an open mind, tell us why the Upham should have been retained?
And why the independant report on the Canterbury - which hasn't been created by the media - isn't as daming as it reads?
Seriously, if there are positive aspects which are being ignored, share. Always good to learn.
Forum whore
If Canterbury needs a 'patch' up then the boat's got the right name.
Skyryder
Free Scott Watson.
Wearing Hi-Viz Black.
Thank goodness it isn't.
That ship was designed for the North Sea. There are considerable differences in wavelengths and sea conditions encountered between there and the Pacific. The same mistake was made with the Lake Class patrolboats. The navy had the option of a slightly longer version but made the wrong decision on that deal also.
Upham was also too light. Remember that it was designed to carry large amounts of freight and traffic across the channel to European ports. As such, it rolled like crazy and had to have shipping containers filled with weight, placed inside to attempt an "easy fix".
The Army took the affair as nothing but a complete insult, having the good name of a brave and dedicated soldier associated with a slow, freight mover...
The "new" Canterbury is a great concept. Multi-role with an emphasis on disaster support.
Let's hope that the designers have learned from errors of the past... (Tui, anyone?)
TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”
For whom the bell tolls
I get the feeling that a 'helicopter carrier' such as what the RAN and RN would have been more beneficial. The 'new' Canterbury looks like a cruise ship that got the wrong paint job, and had its nice pool and beautiful women replaced with a big landing pad at the back.
Theres a lot to say about buying proven machinery - the C-130 and P-3K comes to mind. We have enough allies to know which of their ships work well in situations we would face, the only thing that would need changing is the electronics - but thats why sAsLEX has a job!
KiwiBitcher
where opinion holds more weight than fact.
It's better to not pass and know that you could have than to pass and find out that you can't. Wait for the straight.
Deus ex ukulele
Don't just blame the Gummint. The Canterbury was the Navy's preferred option.
"Standing on your mother's corpse you told me that you'd wait forever." [Bryan Adams: Summer of 69]
Kiwi back at home!
There would of been no political pressure to choose from the tender process a company such as Tenix at all? I mean thats why there is the process and the top tender is chosen not the one that anyone could of said would win the bid before the bid was put out?
No pressure to use a NZ shipyard?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
No politics my arse.
Its just a shame VTFitzroy didn't win the fair tender process.......
Hardcore Biker
The HMNZS Charles Upham was commissioned under a national govt, shouldnt they have had it built right in the first place? Military spending screw ups are nearly always military spending screw ups. A long history of wastage and bad decisions throughout the world.
Find out about the saga of the Meindl boots.
Kiwi back at home!
Boots must be the most complex things in the world, after a few thousand years of wearing them they are still the bane of most defence forces!
Hardcore Biker
They got a hell of a lot for the money - 1 x MRV, 2x OPV's, 4 x IPVs for nearly the price of one frigate, and arguably more useful to NZ and the defense forces. The MRV is based on a popular Ferry design and if it was unstable would never have passed class. From what I hear the seatrials on the IPV's went well - its more the classification societies holding up the IPV handovers. You can't expect full mil spec on a civvy budget.
Highway Biker
Uh guys, i think you will find that that last month the three services had a pretty good pay review. Pay rates are very comparable to their civilian counterparts. I've seen the spreadsheet myself, so this isn't hearsay.
A Warrant Officer in the Technical branches, with 2 years seniority now $107,000.
Kiwi back at home!
Yet my Leading Hands will not now see an increase in pay until they get to Chief petty Officer level, as they have decided they were over qualified for the job they do.
And the new figures look a lot bigger as they have included Super in that figure, I know my pay went up 15 odd k overnight, but I didn't get any more in the pocket.
Smoke and mirrors.
Plus because of the pay review we are not getting paid the correct amount as no one really knows what to do with the system at the moment when we get promoted, receive operational allowances etc.......
But what would I know?
Highway Biker
You know enough my friend. Don't get bent out of shape. I am after all on your side.
I spent a few years getting bashed about in a Lake Class Patrol craft in the 80's so I know all about substandard gear.
Spent more than a couple of years steaming Leander class frigates around the Far East and beyond, so I know all about having to make do with antiquated gear.
All on what I considered a sub standard salary. But like a lot of other people, my love for the job, and the fun we used to have in between the tough times seemed to make up for it.
Loving life in the Bay
There was a plan. The plan would have worked but for a media thrashing that resulted in a political face saving (yer right) decision to cut their losses.
The NZDF needs sealift capability to move personnel and equipment port to port within the pacific and south east asia - Bougainville, East Timor, Solomon Islands, Vanuatu, exercising with Australia are all prime examples. HMNZS Canterbury is based upon a roll-on-roll-off commercial ferry design that is ideal for this purpose. Regardless of any damning report she will deliver admirably on her main capability.And why the independant report on the Canterbury - which hasn't been created by the media - isn't as daming as it reads?
Seriously, if there are positive aspects which are being ignored, share. Always good to learn.
Yes there are some teething issues with some of her medium/high military capabilities but then these make up only a small portion of what she will actually do. Most of her sea time will be trash hauling. Southern Ocean someone said? There aren't too many communities down there vulnerable to tropical cyclones and we don't exercise troops there either. The southern ocean is a policing operation more suited to a frigate or offshore patrol vessel. Yes Canterbury could be used for that purpose at a pinch but why would you when you've got four other vessels better suited to the task.
I reassert that HMNZS Canterbury is of huge benefit to the NZDF and to New Zealand. Sure there are some teething issues but given time these will be sorted. Rome wasn't built in a day.
Hardcore Biker
Yes but she is gonna make an excellent dive site one dayCan you believe this?? Our nice new multi-purpose support ship:
http://www.odt.co.nz/news/natcional/...ip-get-20m-fix
After the debacle of the HMNZS Charles Upham which pitched and rolled so much it was never used by the NZ Navy, the new ship the Canterbury is found to be much the same. Potentially dangerous, not safe in steep seas (anyone in the Navy notice the Southern Ocean.....) needs $20 mill spent on it - and then it still won't be up to scratch.
Soon I hope
I can hardly wait
Arguing with an Engineer is like wrestling a pig in mud.
After a while you realise the pig is enjoying it.
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