Millie Elder in court on P supply charges

[discotex]

Once people ride motorcycles they do all sorts of stupid shyte that they would normally not do and the first ride usually has them hooked on bikes for life. Why the fark would society want to make it easier and legal to do???

......do you not understand how hypocritical you sound?

[inlinefour]

......do you not understand how hypocritical you sound?

What a load of bollocks discotex, you clearly have no idea of how substance dependance works...

[discotex]

What a load of bollocks discotex, you clearly have no idea of how substance dependance works...

Because I'm making a sound rational argument I mustn't know what I'm talking about?

Interesting conclusion.

[inlinefour]

Because I'm making a sound rational argument I mustn't know what I'm talking about?

Interesting conclusion.

Your joking right? If you did understand substance dependance then you would know just how stupid this comment is. Thats the problem I guess when you dont research the topic, I can lend you an essay or text book or 3 so you can learn. Oh and be wary of what you read on the internet and make sure you get anything from a realiable source. You have just shown why illicit drugs wont be decrimilised/made legal. Too many of those supporting it are basing their comments on emotions and not on the facts. I would like to see cannabis decrimilised, but its unlikely to ever happen. Before you assume anything from my post, I dont want to smoke it, I want to ingest it as medicinal use. Then I can stop using the current pain relief thats bad for my liver. Medicinal use in the form of a pill does not have that side effect and is much more effective than what Im on. Just to give you an idea, on a bad day I get up for 2 hours, good day 10 hours until the pain forces me to lye down as immobilising myself is the only thing that works. Some ppl think they know pain but truely have no idea.

[geoffm]

If you want to ahve a wee toke of dak at home, I don't have to many issues with it.
P on the other hand is evil, evil shit, whcih makes the users paranoid and unstable. Look at the RSA murders, and plenty of others.
Time for the hard line and hard time, but it will never happen in this soft-cock country.

[RantyDave]

So you're prefer she sold her body ... to support her habit instead?

Now you mention it, yes. The thing is that P dealers make the situation worse. Paul Holmes' daughter selling her body to support her P habit will, at least, not make the situation any worse for the rest of us and may do us all a huge favour when it finally becomes public.

The whole thing makes the fucking "cheeky darky" comments seem all the more prescient.

Dave

[discotex]

Your joking right? If you did understand substance dependance then you would know just how stupid this comment is. Thats the problem I guess when you dont research the topic, I can lend you an essay or text book or 3 so you can learn.

You're making a lot of assumptions about my level of knowledge that are completely incorrect.

Oh and be wary of what you read on the internet and make sure you get anything from a realiable source. You have just shown why illicit drugs wont be decrimilised/made legal. Too many of those supporting it are basing their comments on emotions and not on the facts

I don't see facts in either of our posts. I think you'll find it's actually those opposing harm reduction and de-criminalisation that are basing their comments on emotion over the hard facts.

Here's some facts that while I've read the proof don't have the studies bookmarked and to hand. As such I'd expect you to consider it opinion. I'll do the same with any unsubstantiated claims you make.

Treatment reduces recidivism.
Treatment reduces secondary offending (such as shoplifting).
Jail time increases offending.
Treating the mental illness (such as depression) of addicts dramatically increases the changes of rehab working.

I would like to see cannabis decrimilised, but its unlikely to ever happen. Before you assume anything from my post, I dont want to smoke it, I want to ingest it as medicinal use. Then I can stop using the current pain relief thats bad for my liver. Medicinal use in the form of a pill does not have that side effect and is much more effective than what Im on. Just to give you an idea, on a bad day I get up for 2 hours, good day 10 hours until the pain forces me to lye down as immobilising myself is the only thing that works. Some ppl think they know pain but truely have no idea.

After decades of failed drug control policy even the US presidential candidate is beginning to question the value of the War on Drugs.

It's not a far stretch to imagine people eventually coming to the inevitable conclusion that making criminals out of sick people is a big fat fail.

[scumdog]

It's not a far stretch to imagine people eventually coming to the inevitable conclusion that making criminals out of sick people is a big fat fail.

OK, let individuals take the drugs if they feel they 'must', it's their choice.

But NO assistance for them when their life then goes tits-up eh?

And really stiff penalties if they are convicted of crimes related to their self-inflicted addiction, fair enough?

[Jerry74]

P has fucked the rest of the world and still NZ has done bugger all about it

[discotex]

OK, let individuals take the drugs if they feel they 'must', it's their choice.

But NO assistance for them when their life then goes tits-up eh?

And really stiff penalties if they are convicted of crimes related to their self-inflicted addiction, fair enough?

Sounds good to me. Not sure about the no assistance. We have ACC for other fuckups and we treat lung cancer for smokers or liver disease for drinkers.

But yeah in general if people commit real crime they should absolutely have the book thrown at them.

[Indoo]

Sounds good to me. Not sure about the no assistance. We have ACC for other fuckups and we treat lung cancer for smokers or liver disease for drinkers.

But yeah in general if people commit real crime they should absolutely have the book thrown at them.

So then Millie Holmes should have the book thrown at her, right?

[James Deuce]

As for her humanity being gone that's total bullshit. Most substance abusers get out eventually. Usually in their mid-20's. About the same time bikers who ride like maniacs slow down. One would assume for the same reasons.

I don't think it's BS at all. The fuse between her personal needs and wants and the consequences of her actions for people around her and the general public has tripped. Once you start selling that stuff to support your own habit you've announced that you no longer give a damn what happens to anyone else so long as your own addiction is fed. It may simply be addiction, it may be a fundamental shift in brain chemistry that in some cases is irreversible. It may well just be that spoilt brats MUST get what they want and the little people don't matter.

And the hand in the cop's death... You're kidding right?

I'm not. There wouldn't be P labs without users, distributors and sellers. There wouldn't be a need for an under cover cop (who actually was much more, was one of those rough men who do indescribable things so you can sleep comfortably in your bed) to skulk about in the dark and get killed by multiple shots from an air rifle. There's more money in the P economy than our manufacturing export businesses. There's schools and hospitals and decent pay for cops and nurses and doctors being shot up and smoked.

I have no quarrel with your argument for treating sick people. P user/dealers have gone beyond sick and into the realm of the irredeemable.

[oldrider]

It's not about Elder (or anyone else) using P, it's now about her "selling" P to other children/people!

What she does to her self is her own problem to deal with and if she gets help with it, fine by me...."BUT" I don't want to have to pay for it!

Destroying other kids lives for her own benefit and habit should get her a death penalty, or in (non PC) NZ, a "real life sentence".

Look here at Libertarianz policy on drugs: www.libertarianz.org.nz/?policy=drugs Perhaps it may even be more in keeping with your own opinion!

There but for the grace of god go I, she could have been selling "P" to my own grandchildren!

My thoughts on this prospect are not printable on this forum! John.

[Headbanger]

Drugs are cool.

[inlinefour]

I don't see facts in either of our posts.

Fact. Prior to my spinal cord injury I was a charge nurse on the secure side of the inpatient psychiatric unit.
Fact. Ive seen the results of P users within that setting. None of it I really want to repeat here.
Fact. P is a shyte substance.
Fact. Its produced by shyte people.
Fact. Its sold by shyte people, which...
Fact. ...turns users into addicts and increases the % of shyte within the population.
New fact. Anyone who thinks otherwise to the above is an idiot or has there head in the sand.

discotex, you understand now? If not please reread this post until you do.