So we got a new Government, and a new Leader

[trustme]

Are you on drugs?

Competition and choice reduces the size of the bureaucracy. Business managers don't allow the wastage and loss that takes place under state management.

Privatisation does not raise costs. It creates incentives for companies to increase efficiency and improve service.

By and large I agree with what you say, Skyryder does have a supply of good drugs, however privatisation of public services does not always work .
Take for example Bradfords deregulation of the power industry, did our power bills go down? , did they fuck!! It was a bullshit model & I could never see it resulting in lower prices & I think history bears me out.
The tertiary education system is run on a semi commercial basis, we have a bunch of private service providers all sucking on the public tit courtesy of student loans, is it really value for the money we pour in.?
We dont need to privatise,we need to streamline & cut out the BS
We have replaced commonsense with paperwork & bull shit, nobody wants to do anything they just want to clip the ticket on the way past.

[Swoop]

And Labour might have stood a chance at the election if it's leader was not a magalomaniac lying two faced (and ugly to boot) bitch.

The same could have been said of Winnie The Pooh's party.
A shame that he dragged Ron Marks down with him.

[Skyryder]

Are you on drugs?

Competition and choice reduces the size of the bureaucracy. Business managers don't allow the wastage and loss that takes place under state management.

Just look at the NZ health system. Labour increased health spending from 8 to 12 billion and there have been no corresponding improvements in health outcomes for NZ citizens.

Where did all the extra health spending go? Mostly into paying the salaries of the increased management bureaucracy that was appointed under Labour governance. (Which was the point that I was making due to duplication. Sky.)



Privatisation does not raise costs. It creates incentives for companies to increase efficiency and improve service. Try selling that one to the houshold consumer when their power bills are due. Sky)

I take it from your arguments that you're fairly young. (Wrong again. I'm sixty four.) Which means that you probably aren't aware of just how diabolical it was to get a telephone line installed, and just how expensive telephone calls were, when the entire NZ telephone system was under state control. True on this but then when you rang someone you got them and not an anwsering machine telling you what number to push. In those days you had a better service not the one now where you have to wait while you are on hold.Sky)

You might also have forgotten just how difficult it was to get a WOF vehicle inspection when all of the testing stations were under state control. Never had a problem then and the wait is no different now.

Or how you applied for a home mortgage and had to wait for 12 months until a government bureaucrat approved it. Since the number of mortgages allowed in the country was under state control. (My first home loan was at 3%. A state loan that went thru in I think if I remember 3 weeks. Ya heard it right 3%.Sky.)

When the railways were controlled by the state, the government prohibited trucks from carrying goods more than 100 miles. Which made transporting freight across NZ expensive and inefficient. It might come as a surprise that the reason the Labour Govt bought it back was that Buisness New Zealand wanted and alternitive to road due to costs. Sky

----------------------------------

Do you see the pattern that's emerging?

Nope.


Me on drugs? I don't think so. What about ya self??


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

And you seem to have forgotten that New Zealand is now a significantly wealthier country than it was in 1984.

This is a consequence of a free market economy and reduced government intervention.

Actually I sort of agree. Labour certainly put a 'smily face' on the free market philosophy and to the betterement of NZ.

It's just that last night most thought differently.


But the shit has not hit the fan yet. It will. I just think Labour would have managed it better.

Skyryder

[Pussy]

At the end of the day... the country has spoken! That's democracy.
I myself am pleased with the outcome

[pete376403]

"meet the new boss, same as the old boss"...
Won't Get Fooled Again - The Who

[roy.nz]

Im glad that sore loser Bitch is out the country is on its way up now.

[Magua]

Im glad that sore loser Bitch is out the country is on its way up now.

What makes her a sore loser? Accepting the full blame for labour's loss or ringing Key to concede? :P

[xwhatsit]

Well at the end of it all, it's only three years. Not very long. So I suppose we lefty/commie/hippie/lazy/couch-burning/intellectual/art-fag/music-fag/transvestite/lesbians can just suck it up for 36 months and hope they don't get too enthusiastic and go overboard in the meantime. Then we look and see if we liked what we just had or if we preferred what we had before.

It'll be interesting to see what happens at the very least.

[Forest]

By and large I agree with what you say, Skyryder does have a supply of good drugs, however privatisation of public services does not always work .
Take for example Bradfords deregulation of the power industry, did our power bills go down? , did they fuck!! It was a bullshit model & I could never see it resulting in lower prices & I think history bears me out.
The tertiary education system is run on a semi commercial basis, we have a bunch of private service providers all sucking on the public tit courtesy of student loans, is it really value for the money we pour in.?
We dont need to privatise,we need to streamline & cut out the BS
We have replaced commonsense with paperwork & bull shit, nobody wants to do anything they just want to clip the ticket on the way past.

Totally agree with you. Ideology should never trump common sense. Especially when it comes to state services that offer services to captive markets.

[Forest]

Nope.


Me on drugs? I don't think so. What about ya self??


Skyryder

Not tonight. Maybe tomorrow.

Don't want to sound like I was having a go at you. I just don't think the "good old days" were really that good.

I'm sure we'll all be having this discussion again in three years time. Let's see what happens.

[Brian d marge]

As far as I understand it the free market does not mean Lassie-faire , it means the ability to enter and leave markets freely

I think Keynes said that man being inherently greedy will push the market to extremes and thus would need some regulations to keep those excesses under control

Roger douglas ( lower case ) was indeed part of a LABOUR government in 1984 with David Lange , who LEFT Labour because of Douglases and the Business round tables intervention AFTER Andy Kriegler bought pretty much ALL of NZ money , then dumped it back ont he market , causing all &'($$### to break loose ,

Douglas jumped in with Lassie-faire policies which were the rage at the time after Marget and the actor removed the currency controls to try and kick start their own economies

The result of which left an ill prepared NZ people struggling to find what was left of those traditional Kiwi values

Yes there were ineffieciencies ( the railways ,) but they employed a lot of people , ( meaning ful work give people hope and security ) , but as was said we handled the transition badly ( Australia did slightly better )

As a result we have a HUGE under class , a lost generation and will reap the rewards

I left NZ in 1984 . It was a great place to Live , didnt have a care in the world ,, Came back in 1993 and it was a spiteful country , the attitudes had changed from a caring... help the other person.... to an Im all right jack sort of a place ...

Who do I blame ... The business round table for lining their own pockets at the expense of the common man , and the common man for not DOING anything

We had more reaction to the Springbox tour than to the present douglas gave us ......( yes I was at Lancaster park and no I didnt watch the rugby ,,,)


Acc could be a fantastic scheme again ,,,10 years ago it needed a 1 cent increase on taxes to be like the original idea,, a no faults fully funded insurance ,,,, Now we have under educated people working on the killing chain , with blunt knives getiing cartunnel ( sp ) syndrome and being sacked becasuse they cannot keep the line speed , or poultry workers getiing Champlterbacter ( sp ) disease and going off work , but being told by work and income that thety cannot receive any money because they are not officially Ill .....

Dont worry about Labour /National . thats the shop front , worry who has influence over the money , If gibbs, kerr and co are anywhere near it ,,,RUN



Stephen

[Forest]

Roger douglas ( lower case ) was indeed part of a LABOUR government in 1984 with David Lange , who LEFT Labour because of Douglases and the Business round tables intervention AFTER Andy Kriegler bought pretty much ALL of NZ money , then dumped it back ont he market , causing all &'($$### to break loose ,

Your timelines are wrong.

Roger Douglas was a Labour MP right from 1969 to 1990. He resigned from Labour and didn't stand for re-election in the 1990 election.

Lange didn't leave parliament until 1996. So clearly he didn't leave in response to Douglas.

Douglas jumped in with Lassie-faire policies which were the rage at the time after Marget and the actor removed the currency controls to try and kick start their own economies.

Again. Your timelines are wrong.

The UK Pound was floated in the early 1970s and the US Dollar was floated in 1975. Neither event had anything to do with Margaret Thatcher or Ronald Reagan.

The result of which left an ill prepared NZ people struggling to find what was left of those traditional Kiwi values

Yes there were ineffieciencies ( the railways ,) but they employed a lot of people , ( meaning ful work give people hope and security ) , but as was said we handled the transition badly ( Australia did slightly better )

As a result we have a HUGE under class , a lost generation and will reap the rewards

I left NZ in 1984 . It was a great place to Live , didnt have a care in the world ,, Came back in 1993 and it was a spiteful country , the attitudes had changed from a caring... help the other person.... to an Im all right jack sort of a place ...

In 1993 you would have seen the effects of Ruth Richardson scaling back the welfare state (which we could no longer afford).

I remember the anger also - but I remember the angry as mainly being haters and wreckers.

Who do I blame ... The business round table for lining their own pockets at the expense of the common man , and the common man for not DOING anything

We had more reaction to the Springbox tour than to the present douglas gave us ......( yes I was at Lancaster park and no I didnt watch the rugby ,,,)


Acc could be a fantastic scheme again ,,,10 years ago it needed a 1 cent increase on taxes to be like the original idea,, a no faults fully funded insurance ,,,, Now we have under educated people working on the killing chain , with blunt knives getiing cartunnel ( sp ) syndrome and being sacked becasuse they cannot keep the line speed , or poultry workers getiing Champlterbacter ( sp ) disease and going off work , but being told by work and income that thety cannot receive any money because they are not officially Ill .....

Dont worry about Labour /National . thats the shop front , worry who has influence over the money , If gibbs, kerr and co are anywhere near it ,,,RUN

I'm not worried about the Business Round Table. I'm more worried about the Unions since they're significantly better funded and, unlike business groups, the Unions participate directly in the political system.

The 19 largest Unions in New Zealand have a combined annual income of around 73 million dollars a year and assets of around 92 million dollars.

The largest business groups in NZ (including the Round Table) have a combined annual income of around 38 million dollars and assets of around 63 million dollars.

source

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Well Destiny Church must have some pretty boring parties.

Seriously, I just wanted a party that would scrap the Kyoto crap, this emission trading bs, is going to haunt us long after this perceived recession comes and goes.

I agree with you there... the Kyoto protocol is the biggest waste of time and effort and has done nothing and will do nothing for the planet as a whole...

Opps we are over our emissions allowance ... no problem we just buy more... how does that make a country change their ways...

don't get me started on global warming either.... and I thought these scientists were suppose to be good scientists

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Yes there were ineffieciencies ( the railways ,) but they employed a lot of people , ( meaning ful work give people hope and security )

The old railways... if you couldn't get a job else where work for the railways, the goverment will pay me a wage for looking like I am working but actually doing nothing... Back then it was more like the work for dole scheme than the actual work for dole scheme was. Also back then the railways was costing millions a year to run and was not turning a profit... Why own a business if it costing you.

It was full of crimms, I don't know how many items were stolen from carrages... and heard heaps of stories... I know some of our stuff was when we moved and used the railways to move house. It needed privatisation to be turned around to be come streamlined.

Shit I remember when the Post Office wanted to first put the price of a stamp up to $50c... every one complained... that it would make to much money for a state owned enterprise... FFS get a grip. That money is spent on upgrading sorting equipment, and in turn the tax and GST goes back into Government pocket for your school and health... (In theory of course)