The fucking maori politics

[Clockwork]

That's an interesting argument. Many people applied that to the Bolsheviks in 1917 and the Nazis in the 1930s. ... Uh oh.

If you'd called them National Socialists would Godwins law still apply?

[Headbanger]

The Maori had a highly sophisticated system of defensive architecture that greatly impressed the European military engineers of the 19th century.
.

Mud and sticks?

[Headbanger]

The Maori had a highly sophisticated system of defensive architecture that greatly impressed the European military engineers of the 19th century.
.

Mud and sticks?

They hadn't even invented the wheel, The only other society not to reach that level of evolution were the abo's.

[Badjelly]

They hadn't even invented the wheel, The only other society not to reach that level of evolution were the abo's.

Human cultural development is not a simple matter of "levels of evolution". The Maori didn't have wheels and metals (so people who say they were in the "Stone Age" are correct, if irrelevant) but they were pretty damn good at the things that matter on an isolated island in the South Pacific: getting around in boats, harvesting the somewhat limited food resources, forming alliances with each other and fighting. Their military defenses may have been made of sticks (not so much mud, I suspect) but they were cunningly designed to withstand days of bombardment and ambush the Imperial soldiers who strolled in thinking that all the defenders would be dead or demoralised.

[GIXser]

You are racist. I am white yet have no relation to anyone that had anything to do with colonizing or "oppressing" Maori. Or is it that all white people are the same? Are you judging us upon skin colour now? Seems pretty racist to me bro....
But I'll ignore that and debate with you. Don't you think they have equal rights now? Even more equal than others? Many of them are in a bad social disposition but as far as rights and oppression goes we aren't in the 1940's anymore.

Im not Racist---!! i just think that whitey , came here took all their land for a few blankets... i think we should repay them for eternity, im working on a policy currently that entitles all Maori' to an annual payment of $ 50,000 for life (each and every year) this will enable them to start reproducing more, as the payment will commence from the day they are born, within a decade Maori will be equal in numbers.

its cool to korero...

[Headbanger]

Human cultural development is not a simple matter of "levels of evolution". The Maori didn't have wheels and metals (so people who say they were in the "Stone Age" are correct, if irrelevant) but they were pretty damn good at the things that matter on an isolated island in the South Pacific: getting around in boats, harvesting the somewhat limited food resources, forming alliances with each other and fighting. Their military defenses may have been made of sticks (not so much mud, I suspect) but they were cunningly designed to withstand days of bombardment and ambush the Imperial soldiers who strolled in thinking that all the defenders would be dead or demoralised.

yeah, so the Brits were arrogant and they got their soldiers killed, its how the brits have fought most wars.

As for the rest, I dunno, Are we expected to be impressed by stone-age bush people who managed to not quite starve to death in between killing each other?

I'd put forward the argument that their lives have been enhanced by an unmeasurable amount by colonisation, If the entire fiasco is going to be measured in monetary terms perhaps they should be paying the British government.

Actually, I'd put forward the argument that we are all New Zealanders, I don't give a flying rats arsehole about the colour of anyones skin, Its way overdue to abolish racist sepratist and damaging policy.

[Finn]

I think Maori's should stop partying and do some work instead.

[Quasievil]

I think I dont care, I got Maori blood and Im the new owner of lots of the Manawatu........now where is me payout Im poor and a under class citizen !!

[Finn]

I think I dont care, I got Maori blood and Im the new owner of lots of the Manawatu........now where is me payout Im poor and a under class citizen !!

Sorry Quasi, you too late. Colin Giltrap has your money.

[davereid]

I think I dont care, I got Maori blood and Im the new owner of lots of the Manawatu........now where is me payout Im poor and a under class citizen !!

If thats the bit of the Manawatu that floods my paddocks, let me know your address... my lawyers got a bill to go over with you...

[Quasievil]

Fuck is that it, that was a freckin HUGE bit of bait !

Lame people Lame

[James Deuce]

Mud and sticks?

They hadn't even invented the wheel, The only other society not to reach that level of evolution were the abo's.

Maori invented the concept of the Strategic Pa, minimal engagement force guerilla tactics, and the defensive trench and bunker. Kawiti practically created the template for WW1 and almost led the British Army of the mid-late Victorian era into bankruptcy. Problem is He (Kawiti) couldn't field a year round army because they had crops to get in. So the "Crown" won and rewrote history to suit. The fact remains that the British Crown made a treaty with Maori that forbade them from taking their country from them and then just went and stole increasingly big chunks of land until they had the lot. Don't get caught up in the "they traded it for muskets and blankets" bullshit either because that's from a different era of Maori exploitation. How would you like it if some bloke in New Plymouth told some rich Iranian that your hypothetical house in Taupo on the waterfront belonged to him and he sold it for nothing to the dude, who then pops in and says, "Oi get orf my land", and then kills you and your family when you don't move? Bet you say it's historical and doesn't matter. The reason I was born in NZ is because the English did the same to the Irish and Scots. Doesn't make any of it "righteous" though, does it?

The technological focus on how "advanced" a society is, is peculiarly a Western one. The reality is, we're still no better than the Roman "Empire" who rewrote history to make themselves feel better about destroying better developed civilisations than their own. They had the wheel, but they never beat the Persians who didn't rely on the wheel militarily. They threw unwanted babies on rubbish dumps. They hunted "lesser" humans. They displayed the deaths of other races or empires as "entertainment".

I find the discussion on the relative value of Human life based on what society or ethnic group they are from incredibly, tastelessy, appallingly ignorant.

[vtec]

Im not Racist---!! i just think that whitey , came here took all their land for a few blankets... i think we should repay them for eternity, im working on a policy currently that entitles all Maori' to an annual payment of $ 50,000 for life (each and every year) this will enable them to start reproducing more, as the payment will commence from the day they are born, within a decade Maori will be equal in numbers.

its cool to korero...

That's got to be a pisstake. haha.

But you're on the right track. Although there's no need to differentiate races. With the world as it is, minimal war, majority peace, good technology etc. From where I'm sitting a brilliant idea would be to eliminate all benefits, but put EVERYBODY on a basic salary of say $150-200 per week. If they wanted to earn more than that then they would have to work. Would mean that a lot of people would stop working, but those who chose to work would get significantly more well off than those who didn't. Would affect inflation to start with, but would find a nice balancing point after a while. So you could choose to chill out and be a bum, or you could choose to work and actually get somewhere even with a low paying job.

There is no need in this day and age for people to be working the hours that they are. The world needs to slow down a bit. Take stock, consume less, appreciate the little things, and people could afford to do more of that. And there would be plenty of potential for getting somewhere.

This would cost $31Billion NZD per annum (current spend on benefits is $15-20 billion??) approximately, which is a high price, but would revolutionise society and change the way money flows entirely. Tax systems would need to be reformed. But it's the first fair form of socialism, and would allow people to follow their dreams more, and think more creatively in terms of how they could change the world with technology development.

No policy's should ever be based on the colour of your skin or injustices suffered by ancestors. ALL of our ancestors have had great injustices done to them. That was the state of the world at the time, now is the time we can focus on peace, prosperity, and justice. Don't forget the past, but look to the future on how to improve everybody's situation.

[Disco Dan]

Heck, the English came and started killing them off (long story short lol) and all that is different today is: well they(we) haven't quite finished the job yet.

We cant kill them as it's against the law, so we'll breed them out.

Trouble is a person can say "i'm 1/50th part maori so that makes me maori - wheres my extra benefits!".

Pretty sad.

One day they will hopefully come to understand they are living under the crown ruling and should bloody well start behaving like it.

They are not special. They should not have any special benefits. Nor should a mway have to be delayed or moved because of a fictitious dragon.

I understand making the odd pa site an historic landmark, thats fine. But come on....

Do the English winge on and expect special benefits over all the other nationalities in England?! No of course not.

We are all human beings and should be treated and expected to be treated equally.

If the maoris dont like it, it's a bit late now. Their country was conquered a long time ago. It is under English rule now.

[Headbanger]

Maori invented the concept of the Strategic Pa, minimal engagement force guerilla tactics, and the defensive trench and bunker. Kawiti practically created the template for WW1 and almost led the British Army of the mid-late Victorian era into bankruptcy. Problem is He (Kawiti) couldn't field a year round army because they had crops to get in. So the "Crown" won and rewrote history to suit. The fact remains that the British Crown made a treaty with Maori that forbade them from taking their country from them and then just went and stole increasingly big chunks of land until they had the lot. Don't get caught up in the "they traded it for muskets and blankets" bullshit either because that's from a different era of Maori exploitation. How would you like it if some bloke in New Plymouth told some rich Iranian that your hypothetical house in Taupo on the waterfront belonged to him and he sold it for nothing to the dude, who then pops in and says, "Oi get orf my land", and then kills you and your family when you don't move? Bet you say it's historical and doesn't matter. The reason I was born in NZ is because the English did the same to the Irish and Scots. Doesn't make any of it "righteous" though, does it?

The technological focus on how "advanced" a society is, is peculiarly a Western one. The reality is, we're still no better than the Roman "Empire" who rewrote history to make themselves feel better about destroying better developed civilisations than their own. They had the wheel, but they never beat the Persians who didn't rely on the wheel militarily. They threw unwanted babies on rubbish dumps. They hunted "lesser" humans. They displayed the deaths of other races or empires as "entertainment".

I find the discussion on the relative value of Human life based on what society or ethnic group they are from incredibly, tastelessy, appallingly ignorant.

well, I for one have no idea what your on about......Think maybe your replying to a whole raft of points or statements I didn't make.

Though It's also true that I don't really care.

All Hail Caesar, Hail.