Terrorist (namely muslim) cowards

[Oscar]

you mean 'the land that, in the most recent generation, they either bought from the then-current owners or took possession of when it was abandoned by the then-current owners in response to a pledge from their arab bretheren that they would "drive the israelies into the sea" ...?'

but i digress
my post had nothing much to do with ownership - more with my support for the right of israel [or you, or me, or whomever] to fight back when attacked, my distain for so-called guerillas [or whatever] who prefer to do their fighting hiding behind the skirts of others of my gender and a general dislike for the current practice of people following whichever whimsical knocking campaign happens to be flavour of the fortnight

sorry for any misunderstanding ...

I'm so sorry too, as there's a slight flaw in yer logic. How come your support for Israel and disdain for guerrillas ignores the Jewish Terrorists who helped create the state (one whom later became Prime Minister of Israel)?

[mstriumph]

I'm so sorry too, as there's a slight flaw in yer logic. How come your support for Israel and disdain for guerrillas ignores the Jewish Terrorists who helped create the state (one whom later became Prime Minister of Israel)?

now why should you think that? .. don't think you read my comment on your 'Stern Gang' post ....

[SARGE]

Great - so ignorant, uneducated Arabs have to abide by the Geneva Convention, but we don't have to worry about the bits we don't like?

That's the whole point - we're supposed to be better than them.
No wonder we're losing this war.

just a little footnote from the Conventions...

States have a legal obligation to spread knowledge of the Conventions and Protocols:
The High Contracting Parties undertake, in time of peace as in time of war, to disseminate the text of the present Convention as widely as possible in their respective countries, and, in particular, to include the study thereof in their programmes of military and, if possible, civil instruction, so that the principles thereof may become known to the entire population, in particular to the armed fighting forces, the medical personnel and the chaplains. (Arts. 47, 48, 127 and 144 of, respectively, GC I, II, III & IV)

The High Contracting Parties undertake, in time of peace as in time of armed conflict, to disseminate the Conventions and this Protocol as widely as possible in their respective countries and, in particular, to include the study thereof in their programmes of military instruction and to encourage the study thereof by the civilian population, so that those instruments may become known to the armed forces and to the civilian population. (Art. 83, Protocol I)

This Protocol shall be disseminated as widely as possible. (Art. 19, Protocol II)

[Timber020]

Mercenaries have little to no rights, unless they happen to work for haliburton. Then they are able to kill at will, are immune to prosecution, are able to call in US military air assets or artillery when they feel the need and have more rights than ANY of if citizens of the nation they pillage.

We in the west have benefited greatly from screwing over other countries and there people for there resources. Its nothing new, its been happening since time began. None of us here do this ourselves, but we are not to upset in living to a high standard and not looking to hard who got screwed to get the diamonds, oil, gold, timber, or minerals found in nearly every product that we own and consume.

We just need a nice excuse fed to us to sit comfortably by while other people get fucked, and we generally lap it up. Collectively we have big armies, big intel budgets and lots of lawyers in the UN to do our bidding. We have installed over 85 dictators in the last 100 years, often getting rid of democaticly elected leaders at the time. Sure we support freedom but only if its the freedom we want you to have, when we want and if we still get what we want from you (cheap or free of course).

If your poor and bullied and have SFA to loose, the only way to take on the big guys is through acts of terrrorism. The americans did it to the brits, the ira did it, the maori did it, its a time honoured tradition. This time we are the bullies and in a small way we are reaping what weve sewn. To often the idea "my enemys enemy is my friend" has bitten us on the ass. Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, the taliban, Ho Chi Mihn....all supported and empowered by western influence, just to name a few

Some guys happen to rally under the muslim banner, but its got less to do with there cause than the wests greed and clumsy foreign policy in the last 100 years. All groups look for something to bond to, they have now all bonded to the american flag, just their version of it is on fire.

I know if I belonged to a nation that had been fucked over like many of these guys nations/people have been fucked over, I would probably get a little extreme myself. I dont condone there actions, but to some extent I think I can understand them.

[aewilliam]

All the religious nutters would justify themselves with some text or another.
Unfortunately the real dangerous nutters, like OBL are doing it for their God.
OBL had more money and power than a thousand other men and gave it up to follow his God (and his God is probably your God, if prevailing thinking is to be believed - Allah = Yaweh/Jehovah = God)

Yup, Christian/Jewish/Muslim "God" shares the 'Father' figgure of Jehovah...Allah...Christians also call Him 'Dad' such is the relationship we are called to have with Him.

OBL, there is love for his religion that does cause him to try and protect it/Muslims from being corrupted by the evils of the West (what these are...wow, it would be hard and time consuming to discuss them and the muliple cultural viewpoints that the 'evil' is seen from....for this to happen, what is needed is a TRULY open heart and mind that seeks to understand what the other culture sees).

BUT, from the little I know, the knowledge and pure (clean/holy/loving) attachment for OBL to his religion and Allah would have been TOO easily corrupted and ABUSED by his teachers/leaders (who were militants with much hate of the West themselves yar?).

Maybe...maybe not...thereagain his love for his Allah may be just a ploy to mask HIS inbred lust for power (you can NEVER have TOOOO much power...MOOOOOAAAAAR POWAAAAAAR!!!), and hate for the West.

But only God will know what TRULY drives OBL and that is who OBL will have to answer to.

Or Chuck Norris' fist and roundhouse of justice...

[jrandom]

nope.. we are "losing" this war in the Left-Wing media only.. IED's inIraq have dropped dramatically..

And do you think that that's because the Murkn military are totally awesome and have kicked lots of arse, or because Iran doesn't want a power vacuum and has withdrawn support from the Shiite militias to allow a neutral Iraqi power structure to stabilise?

I couldn't personally comment, but the smart money is on the latter idea.

And, define 'loss'. The original American goal of a puppet Iraqi regime is now completely lost. They'll have to make do with what everyone else will - an neutral but uneasy internal balance of power. The question of whether they should leave a residual 'security' (not 'occupation') force is a sticky one, too.

And, yes, the war they should have paid attention to, in Afghanistan, slips from their grip, even as the Russians begin to reassert their dominance and push their sphere of influence back out into the area of the old USSR.

Messy, messy, messy. I'm glad I don't have Mr Obama's job right now.

[Oscar]

just a little footnote from the Conventions...

But you just admitted breaching it.

[Oscar]

now why should you think that? .. don't think you read my comment on your 'Stern Gang' post ....

I did.
It makes your later comments even less logical.

[jrandom]

let the bastards come out from behind their innocent human shields and fight like honorable people ...

If my country had been invaded and occupied by a superpower-sponsored regime with F16s and M1s, and all I had was fertiliser bombs and rifles, I'd do whatever the hell I had to to drive their military forces and settlers out.

And so would you.

Fuck 'honourable'. 'Honourable' is what you do when you have more tanks than the other guy.

[Oscar]

It's been fun, but Little Oscy needs his sleepy-bye time...night all.

[SARGE]

But you just admitted breaching it.

look mate..

i spent days digging my bro's out of the rubble while dodging sniper fire..all while under a Red Cross / UN banner..

yea... maybe we can enter into a logical discourse with these guys .. i'm sure if we can talk to them we can all be friends

[aewilliam]

Glad the debate has gone to war rather than sticking to religion (hope it stays this way kinda!!!) and it has been (bulk...) logical and inoffensive. May ye all who stay on let it remain so!

War has so much to do with politics and power, and both so easily twist and corrupt fragile human nature into hate. And it all changes so quickly that the people who you support may do the unthinkable and unsupportable, and there seems to be nowhere to go...i don't think i'll stick my nose in this battleground!

I hope all who have been directly affected by war can find some sort of closure, if it can be had at all...I have NOT been directly affected by war at all, and i think same with most NZers...thank God for that is what I believe.

peace out Kbers.

[jrandom]

i spent days digging my bro's out of the rubble while dodging sniper fire..all while under a Red Cross / UN banner..

Where was that?

[SARGE]

Where was that?

HERE

[mstriumph]

I did.
It makes your later comments even less logical.

erm
you think it would be - logical - for me to view what's happening between a bunch of folks over there NOW in the light of an historic event that impacted my family? ... heck - you misjudge me

- my forebears have been thumped through countless generations by members of DOZENS of different groups [as yours prolly have, too .....]

- my way of thinking is, if i can avenge the wrong on the actual person that did the thumping, well yes, i'll have a bash at that [if you'll pardon the pun - sorry ]... but to 'visit the sins of the fathers on the children even unto the third and fourth generation'?????? sounds bloody unfair to me .

.. the god of the old testament might think it's ok ... but i'm better than that [as i suspect MOST people are]