The Ultimate Adventure Bike

**Eddieb** · 18th December 2008, 14:26

I alwasy thought the XTZ Super Tenere and more recently the F800GS were on the right track.

For me Adventure also includes potentially sizable mileage to get to the rough stuff and long days in the saddle so the parrallel twin suits for it's smoother performance and better road manners over a single while hopefully being able to be built down to a half reasonable weight and still fairly slim to man handle around and through things. It also gives better luggage/fuel/pillion carrying potential.

It's about more than just riding the rough stuff and if you limit your design to that you may as well be designing a trail bike.

**cooneyr** · 18th December 2008, 21:48

Originally Posted by Eddieb

I alwasy thought the XTZ Super Tenere and more recently the F800GS were on the right track.

For me Adventure also includes potentially sizable mileage to get to the rough stuff and long days in the saddle so the parrallel twin suits for it's smoother performance and better road manners over a single while hopefully being able to be built down to a half reasonable weight and still fairly slim to man handle around and through things. It also gives better luggage/fuel/pillion carrying potential.

It's about more than just riding the rough stuff and if you limit your design to that you may as well be designing a trail bike.

Umm couple of points here. The XTZ750 is about 220kg wet, it is not slim, it is hard to get your weight forward cause of the tank, there is no sub frame for attaching pannier racks (alloy rear carrier is the rear sub frame but not strong enough to attach racks). However it will do 380kms to reserve if you ride at a sensible pace (uses a little more when thrashing it

). The engine is very nice - smooth and grunty at a realistic rev range 3k to 6k rpm, really flexible - will pull happily up a hill at 2k and will rev out to 9k happily, red line is 8k.

The Webber rally twin is probably the best of /the only light twin. Enduro bike spec suspension, parallel twin, good frame for attaching panniers. Obviously don't know about handling or riding position but I suspect it will be pretty decent. Pitty about the price. Wonder if they will do a frame and plastics kit for you to build up the bike from wrecked ER5/6's and EXC's???

Cheers R

**pete376403** · 18th December 2008, 21:49

KLR650/Versys hybrid could be interesting - the versys is around 60 -70 hp comapred to the Klrs 38 or so. (if you see raw h/p as the most important part of adv riding)

**Eddieb** · 19th December 2008, 10:09

Originally Posted by cooneyr

Umm couple of points here. The XTZ750 is about 220kg wet, it is not slim, it is hard to get your weight forward cause of the tank, there is no sub frame for attaching pannier racks (alloy rear carrier is the rear sub frame but not strong enough to attach racks). ...

Never said the XTZ was perfect, just a good start motor wise. The other things you mention are design issues, not a fundamental flaw due to constrants caused by the engine configuration.

In 1980 BMW introduced the R80G/S at 186kg WET weight. http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/specpages/R80G-S.htm

Built strong enough to go round the world with a ton of luggage and 2 -up and go forever no manufacturer, including BMW, seems to have been able to introduce a twin or more cylinder bike as capable yet still as light since. Sure there are loads of bikes more capable out there nowdays, but they are either singles or weigh a ton more, nothing I can recall with more than one cylinder has the same balance of smooth road manners and off road ability within a similiar weight range.
The 1200GS and KTM 990 Adventure at a quoted 199kg dry each are getting closer but thats still pretty much 20kgs difference once wet. Even the new F800GS is quoted at 207kg wet http://www.bmw-dakar.co.za/tech_specs_2008.php

With almost 30 years of material and technology development, why not?

**Padmei** · 19th December 2008, 16:52

Very interesting Eddieb. When it comes down to it we're talking about power & weight issues. What is the heaviest part of the bike? Frame - Ali? or engine - the more cylinders the heavier? More power needed? very debatable...

I agree that over the years with all the weight concious composites & materials the weight should be way less than they are now - look at MX bikes. However we also 'want' more on our bikes (DRs the exception). crash bars, racks, electronic paraphenalia, fairings.

What's the best way to start - lightest motor or lightest frame?

**Peril** · 19th December 2008, 17:23

Just for comparisions sake,the 86 Tenere (like mine) weighed in at 173kgs wet (according to my workshop book).The new Tenere is 183kgs dry.Sure it is watercooled,but where is the extra weight? They even run an alloy swing arm compared to my steel one.
Something like say a DR Big engine,shoehorned into an alloy frame with some good vibration dampening,with enough strength for carrying 2up and some luggage,good suspension (which if you did modify a MXer frame you'd get),20+ litre tank and I think you'd have a pretty nice setup and for much less than the Webber bike.Now I can only dream of winning Lotto and building something like that

**JATZ** · 19th December 2008, 18:49

Originally Posted by Peril

Just for comparisions sake,the 86 Tenere (like mine) weighed in at 173kgs wet (according to my workshop book).The new Tenere is 183kgs dry.Sure it is watercooled,but where is the extra weight? They even run an alloy swing arm compared to my steel one.
Something like say a DR Big engine,shoehorned into an alloy frame with some good vibration dampening,with enough strength for carrying 2up and some luggage,good suspension (which if you did modify a MXer frame you'd get),20+ litre tank and I think you'd have a pretty nice setup and for much less than the Webber bike.Now I can only dream of winning Lotto and building something like that

I was thinking of DR 800 motor too when I read the first post, simple and reliable, which was one of the first posts requirments.Probly a bit hard to find in the parts bin though.
There's a guy on advrider with a heavily modified 800 in Israel, I think it's down about 170 odd kg's, so thats a good start
The seat I'd probly get off a Beemer or some thing(good for long trips).
Maybe one of those safari type tanks that hold about 35 litres.
Frame is not such an issue, so long as its strong,weight can be saved somewhere else.

**Eddieb** · 20th December 2008, 17:52

Originally Posted by Padmei

When it comes down to it we're talking about power & weight issues. What is the heaviest part of the bike? Frame - Ali? or engine - the more cylinders the heavier? More power needed? very debatable...

Remember my r80 was built in 1981. A lot of it is steel, frame, driveshaft etc, the technology is 1970's.

For me I'd like a little more power but not a lot. The R80 I think produces 50 at the crank which equates to about 35 at the rear wheel after mechanical loses from the driveshaft etc. Obviously thats at maximum revs. I guess really I'd like more between 25% & 75% throttle which to some extent is a by product/balance between either more cubes and/or a better state of tune. The GS is only 8:1 compression for a start. Maybe 10-15 more hp peak with that built up through out the range would be nice just to give it better road performance for hills, passing and load capacity.

Originally Posted by Padmei

I agree that over the years with all the weight concious composites & materials the weight should be way less than they are now - look at MX bikes. However we also 'want' more on our bikes (DRs the exception). crash bars, racks, electronic paraphenalia, fairings.

What's the best way to start - lightest motor or lightest frame?

Again my example is from 1980 where a lot of the bike is steel. Surely just moving to more modern materials would yeild gains in both areas and I wouldn't think you would need to shave either frame or motor down to minimums. Plus being a horizontally opposed twin means you have 2 huge chunks of metal out each side, a configuration that surely means more weight compared to a similiarly spec'd parrallel twin. I couldn't find any data to back that up but I would be surprised if it wasn't a fair amount more.

The GS also has a driveshaft and diff at that weight, how much more would that weigh than 2 sprockets and a chain? I would prefer to keep a driveshaft though, once you've had one it's had to go back. No chain lash, no maintenance, no mess, they are a godsend.

A parrellel twin KLR would be the go I reckon, good price and you don't need a computer to fix it.
Plus I'm constantly surpised at how MarkS's goes through things and how stable it is, putting aside the huge rooster tail and fishtailing of course. That boy is still 18 when it comes to riding, he just has a few years experience at it now.

**marks** · 24th December 2008, 10:12

Originally Posted by pete376403

KLR650/Versys hybrid could be interesting - the versys is around 60 -70 hp comapred to the Klrs 38 or so. (if you see raw h/p as the most important part of adv riding)

close - but I now know what the the ultimate combination is

a KLR with a scrambler 900 engine - what a gravel sledge that would make

**pete376403** · 24th December 2008, 13:20

a Triumph Scrambler?? Guy at work has one of those, it's even slower and porkier than the KLR. (But it is rather pretty)

**marks** · 24th December 2008, 13:42

Originally Posted by pete376403

a Triumph Scrambler?? Guy at work has one of those, it's even slower and porkier than the KLR. (But it is rather pretty)

keep making comments like that and you'll have Tri Boy crying into his cup of tea.

the 'feel' of the scrambler engine is nicer than the 'feel' of the tractor engine in the KLR plus the sound of one 'on song' gives me wood