Benmore Dam spilling

[warewolf]

Whereas an intelligent government would move industry south. Most industrial operatoions could run just as well (After a few adjustments) in the South Island as in Dorkland. They don't cos the bosses want to live in the big smoke. So, it becomes a proper part of the provenance of government to tell them to pack up and start moving. Or else.

I grew up in a place halfway between Sydney and Melbourne where they ran a decentralisation scheme in the 1970s. But it was slightly different; part of the gain was that being halfway was cheaper than being based in one and doing business in both.

As a kid I visited the power stations in the Snowy Mountains scheme often, sometimes with my engineer Dad when the last of them was being built. Feeling the water rushing through the huge pipes at Tumut 3 station is pretty amazing, as is the sheer power (ha ha) inside the generator building when it is really humming. I always wanted to go down into the bowels of the generators, but they wouldn't let me.

[Bass]

I always wanted to go down into the bowels of the generators, but they wouldn't let me.

I have walked a penstock at Aratiatia and stepped out through the governor blades onto the turbine runner.
It was an eerie feeling knowing that on the other side of that door was 40 million gallons of Lake Aratiatia. I really hoped that the sparkie had indeed pulled the fuses on the door drive.

[imdying]

I always wanted to go down into the bowels of the generators, but they wouldn't let me.

When I was younger, maybe 15 years ago, I went through the Benmore dam, so close to the spinning shafts of the turbines you could reach out and touch them. Hopefully someone can tell us if you can still tour them, I'd ride down there for a day just to do that again. Impressive engineering yessssss

[FJRider]

While working in Manapouri a few years back. We were offered a trip across the lake to west arm power station(on the workers boat). Were given a tour through the whole thing. From the very bottom where we go a look inside a "snail shell" the water flows through, to drive the turbine.
They were doing maintaince on it, and was very scarey hearing the water flowing past in the next turbine. Standing on steel polished by water. We were taken up in the lift, right up to the control buildings.

[Winston001]

Yeah the 200MW loss at Tiwai along with higher than previous year's inflows has contributed to the spilling. I think last week we were more than 2 standard deviations above average for NZ storage (so that is only a 2% or less of the time situation). But if pole 1 of the HVDC (which was put out of service in Sept 2007) was still in service there would be a marked less amount of spill in the SI. Don't be too alarmed though, we have just had the two weeks of the lowest demand NZ has in a year and it is fairly common for a few of the hydro dams to have a little bit of spill, even in lowish flows.


Yeah back then the demand was a lot less and we had a big excess on the supply side of things after the big development of the waitaki and clutha in the 60's-80's so spilling would have been a bit more common. Although in saying that, the whole electricity system was centrally controlled and totally state owned so in some areas would have been run more efficiently.

I still believe that NZ is too small to have competitive businesses producing electricity. Max Bradford was wrong. Central longterm planning by Government is best. But what is done is done.

Having said that, Meridian, Mighty River Power, and Genesis are all government owned. So is Transpower. So the government has the ability to direct these SOEs to do what it wants.

Unfortunately governments are gutless. Upgrading the transmission network requires money which means power price increases - and that's politically unacceptable. However government could commit taxation money to this work. Instead we've had 9 years of social engineering while basic infrastructure slowly crumbled.

[Okey Dokey]

When I was younger, maybe 15 years ago, I went through the Benmore dam, so close to the spinning shafts of the turbines you could reach out and touch them. Hopefully someone can tell us if you can still tour them, I'd ride down there for a day just to do that again. Impressive engineering yessssss

According to this site: www.meridianenergy.co.nz , there are daily tours during the summer at 11am, 1pm and 3pm. You may want to email them to confirm this before you head out.

[Badjelly]

Unfortunately governments are gutless. Upgrading the transmission network requires money which means power price increases - and that's politically unacceptable. However government could commit taxation money to this work. Instead we've had 9 years of social engineering while basic infrastructure slowly crumbled.

I'm just waiting for all the libertarians who frequent this site to tell you how wrong you are.

[imdying]

According to this site: www.meridianenergy.co.nz , there are daily tours during the summer at 11am, 1pm and 3pm. You may want to email them to confirm this before you head out.

Thanks a lot

[Okey Dokey]

Happy to help.

[Ocean1]

I'm just waiting for all the libertarians who frequent this site to tell you how wrong you are.

Libertarians aren't agin' government, dude. That'd be anarchists. Most libertarians would, I reckon, recognise a government's valid roll in funding and planning supply for that sort of infrastructure.

Or the more rational ones would.

Personally, I believe the function of the above SOEs is to insulate govt from both funding and supply pressures. Fact is the sheer size of a workable long term "best practice" generation infrastructure budget was seen as a formidable impediment to the far more important busines of buying votes THIS year.

The fuckers bought us off with a threepenny bag of lollies, and now they're all gorne.

[FJRider]

Personally, I believe the function of the above SOEs is to insulate govt from both funding and supply pressures. Fact is the sheer size of a workable long term "best practice" generation infrastructure budget was seen as a formidable impediment to the far more important busines of buying votes THIS year.

I believed the function of SOE's was to be stand-alone money making businesses for the goverment. If they cant make a profit... they're sold off for a couple of big bags of lollies...
Previous Goverments seem to have believed that money for upgrades to these SOE's, from taxation, would leave money for other area's short. Plus cut into/out, any possible profit in the process.
The big impediment to any new power generating schemes is the ability, after the scheme's are built... to get the power to where its needed. Upgrade costs for transmission lines, have to be built into build costs for any new scheme.
Someone has to pay... no prizes for guessing who will end up paying... one way or another.

[Ocean1]

I believed...

Sorta wot I said.

A market purist would observe that, a): a public institution is inefficient in terms of core product delivery, and b): an entity constrained by actual market forces is the answer.

It's only the answer, however, if the market is open to competition, supposedly the reason the NZED was replaced by multiple "commercial" entities.

It's bullshit, of course. "Customers" have little real choice in terms of who they source their power from.

Dem other fellas might point to all the extras a genuine public service provide. Training, research economies of scale etc. And they'd be right. I figure the line should be drawn at some sort of erstwhile rest home/recreation club like NZR, MOW, NZED etc became, though.

So. How do you sort things so's you've got the best of both worlds, eh?

[Hitcher]

The original rationale for SOEs was to put the state's commercial assets into units that could, in the fullness of time, be sold. Some were. More would have been. One has been bought back again.

There are a couple I would sell, if I were in a position to do so. One is Solid Energy (the state-owned coal mining company) and the other is TVNZ.

I would sell Solid Energy because it cops so much flack for being a state-owned environmental villain (which it isn't) and I'd sell TVNZ (and RNZ for that matter as well) because I don't believe that the state should have any legitimate role in broadcasting. The government doesn't own newspapers. Radio and TV are no different.

I don't think that privately owned utility companies are a smart move in a country like New Zealand, and the SOE model is probably about the best way of managing these.

[jrandom]

... I don't believe that the state should have any legitimate role in broadcasting.

I do.

RNZ runs many programmes that improve the mind and enrich the social fabric of the nation and wouldn't be touched with a barge pole by commercial broadcasters because the audience isn't easily advertisable-to.

That not-for-profit focus should be strengthened and continued. That's the legitimate role of state-sponsored broadcasting.

[Ocean1]

Stop being so fucking reasonable.

How can a man have a cathartic wee rant if some bastard chucks a bucket of cold facts all over the place.