Police admit shooting innocent 17-year-old

[Number One]

Mistakes can happen! You've got to be kidding me. A situation invovling firearms in which a mistake can happen should be avoided at all costs.
It’s simple; if unsure, don't shoot.

I got this via email..accident indeed...

NZ Herald
24 January 2009

The killing of an innocent man by armed police during a confrontation with an armed man in Auckland yesterday was a tragedy, but police were given very little choice about their actions, the Police Association says. __________________________________________________ __________________________________

"Little choice?"

They had every choice. From the NZ Police website:

The 7 Basic Rules of Firearm Safety

1. Treat every firearm as loaded
2. Always point firearms in a safe direction
3. Load a firearm only when ready to fire
4. Identify your target
5. Check your firing zone
6. Store firearms and ammunition safely
7. Avoid alcohol or drugs when handling firearms

If it gets called an 'accidental' shot by the inevitable Police Complaints Authority hearing (in about 2012) then where was rule 2?

If it was aimed at the offender, what about Rule 4?

If it was aimed at the offender and missed, who else was in the line of fire? The now deceased Mr Naitoko, that's who. Try Rule 5.
__________________________________________________ _________________________________________

Then, how about the Armed Offenders Squad?

. . . the AOS provides Police with the means of effectively and more safely responding to and resolving situations in which there is an actual or threatened use of firearms or other weapons against members of the public or Police.
The basic methods of operating have not changed - that is to cordon, contain and appeal to armed offenders.

didn't they do well? The words effective, more safely, resolving . . . do not seem to apply in this situation.

And of course there will not be compensation for the pregnant partner and family. it was 'an accident', you see.

They had "Little choice"

"It's not the gun that kills it's the man behind"

[Vagabond]

Sorry Sarge not sure what you are getting at here.

What he means is have you ever been shot at! and how well will you be able to keep your cool and operate as is expected of you!

[DEATH_INC.]

I'm with the cops, sad the young fella died, but how many others would have if they hadn't put a stop to it? I know the truck driver, I'm pretty sure he wasn't shot by the cops....

[Grahameeboy]

NZ has a 'No Blame' culture......only one in the World....

[Number One]

What he means is have you ever been shot at! and how well will you be able to keep your cool and operate as is expected of you!

Indeed. I always remember my dad saying in the heat of battle it's kill or be killed. Unfortunately this whole thing sounds like it was a pretty one sided battle so I'd hazard to comment that there should have been more self control and discipline on the part of the shooters. But I wasn't there and I'm no expert, either way this whole thing does no good for the level of 'faith' we should all be able have in our police.

[Grahameeboy]

What absolute fuckin crap. The only blame here is with the asshole who started this whole situation and was firing shots at random in public including shooting another driver whos vehicle he was trying to hijack. Then he could have easily gone on to shoot you or one of your family. What happened to the young lad was tragic but was due to circumstances that were out of control. Your comment is not only ignorant but is racist as well and has been made before the facts of any enquiry have even been released.

Rubbish...oddly he did not shoot anyone...the Police managed to though...at the end of the day the decision to shoot was the Officer's and his alone...he had a choice.

When will NZ realise that this is not the Wild West....

[oldrider]

If I was bundled off to a war zone tomorrow my biggest fear would be "friendly" fire, mainly from above!

In this instance it was even worse, the people sent in to protect the public shot him point blank.

There is no way out of this for the Police and even the good guys have to suck it up.

Broad Howard should just resign.(IMHO) John.

[Robbo]

Rubbish...oddly he did not shoot anyone...the Police managed to though...at the end of the day the decision to shoot was the Officer's and his alone...he had a choice.

When will NZ realise that this is not the Wild West....

Actually Graham, he did shoot truck driver Richard Neville as he tried to hijack his truck and may have gone on to shoot more people if his rampage had continued. Eye witnesses also spoke of crossfire and it's possible that a ricochet bullet could have also been the cause of the tragic death of the young dad. We may never know the exact cause.
As for NZ not being "The Wild West" try and get that message across to the criminal element who start and instigate these situations and not the ones who do their best to stop it. Would you prefer it if next time there was an unstable lunatic on the rampage with a gun that the police decided "Fuck It, we will get the blame no matter what" and just left it up to the public to sort it out for themselves. I don't think you would.
Cheers

[davereid]

The killing of an innocent man by armed police during a confrontation with an armed man in Auckland yesterday was a tragedy, but police were given very little choice about their actions, the Police Association says.

The police had no choice except to respond with the A.O.S.

But shooting an innocent bystander is at best a tragic accident, and at worst a result of careless shooting, that should never have happened.

Its not a case of choice except in as much as "don't choose to pull the trigger unless you know you won't hurt the innocent"

There are no good outcomes to come from this. A young father is dead, a policeman will either be charged with manslaughter, or a police "whitewash" will be claimed.

[Dean]

The police had no choice except to respond with the A.O.S.

But shooting an innocent bystander is at best a tragic accident, and at worst a result of careless shooting, that should never have happened.

Its not a case of choice except in as much as "don't choose to pull the trigger unless you know you won't hurt the innocent"

There are no good outcomes to come from this. A young father is dead, a policeman will either be charged with manslaughter, or a police "whitewash" will be claimed.

officers have so much authority and power and when theres certain coppas that have certain lifestlye,attitude problems they may take it out on the criminals or in this case a teenager.they break down emotionaly,mentaly because expereinces in the force

[FJRider]

As with accidents ... its hard to wait for the reports to come out.

No... its not ... but why let unknown facts stand in the way of a good rant...

[Street Gerbil]

A tragic story. This accidental shooting will further interfere with police rights to bear arms and ultimately will cost many more innocent lives. A shortsighted public assault on the police leads to further erosion of its deterrent and thus its ability to enforce law and order. The blood of the innocent bystander is entirely on armed criminal's hands and if the policeman will be charged instead of the criminal, it will mean a triumph of injustice. By lashing out at police you people are lashing out at those who stand between you and criminals. Do you want them to stand between you and criminals armed only with hot air rhetoric and funny looking uniform?
No one would have been hurt if the criminal would have been brought down earlier. Every member of the police force must be trained to use firearms and required to possess one when on duty. Period. You want to live in a thugocracy where only criminals are armed? I sure don't.

[ManDownUnder]

Lets start with all the facts... anyone that has them all can go first...

[firefighter]

I make no claims to be an expert at all. If anything it sounds like your the one making yourself out to be an expert with all that cock pulling about serving over-seas.

Nope I would'nt ever consider myself to be an expert in this field, just describing my RELATIVE experience, (experience in the debated subject is unsually useful - rather than just making rules and regs without any "hands-on" so to speak- I consider those without experience making up training/rules/regs etc to be cock pulling more than anything)
And yes I would'nt expect any kind of respect from a kiwi in regards to serving overseas, as kiwis could'nt give a shit about anything other than themselves and their own opinions.....

and BTW cock pulling is'nt anywhere involved in it (well there was a bit but I was stuck in the middle of no-where for considerable time)

[FJRider]

From the arms act 1983,
section one
Rule 4: identify your target beyond all doubt.
.You must positively identify your target beyond all doubt before firing.
If in doubt DON'T Shoot
.Do not fire at movement only
.Do not fire at colour only
.Do not fire at sound only
.Do not fire at shape only

Rule 5:check your firing zone
Be aware of what could be hit in the area between you and your target,and the area beyond your target.
(ask yourself: what if I miss my target)

Well that was answered in a fatal way, by a totally innocent young person.


I guess these rule don't apply to the Police.

northwestern motorway is busy around that time, use of a rifle, how far would a bullet travel, somewhere between 1.5 and 4.5Km

If the elements that randomly fire weapons at Police, aren't obeying the "rules"... why should police in their attempts to stop them. RULES apply to BOTH