Wot's the Ducati difference?

[Winston001]

It's interesting to note that the Ducatis we see being raced on TV have very different geometry from what we buy for the street. The swingarm's length, the tripleclamp's offset, rear height etc are changed quite drastically.

From my experience, the 996 is not easy to turn in stock configuration. It's quite stable mid corner but to get there you would have to wrestle it down. But with some simple tweaks you can transform the bike to a very agile corner weapon.

Changing the rear to a 180/55 can also be an eye opener.

The single sided swingarm bikes are far from easy to setup. As you change the gearing and the chain tension, you change the rear height and the wheelbase. So you compensate with the height adjustment rod, and now you have changed the suspension linkage.

But they are still very good fun a rewarding to ride!

Nice post. I'd say similar things about the ST4 although it doesn't have a single swingarm. Doubt that I will bother to get lighter wheels, different tyre sizes etc as recommended by others but your comments confirm what I've read on Ducati MS forum.

The thing is, all motorcycle manufacturers have to balance performance/handling against the Unknown buyer. The guy who weighs 220lb and his equally cuddly girlfriend. If the bike begs to turn and is unstable, throwing Mr Unknown off is bad for business. So bikes reach us in a "safe" configuration and are not true race replicas, even if we think they are.

So there is plenty which can be done but personally, I'm still scared silly by the 916 engine and the bike can remain stable.

[mikeey01]

Someone mentioned they're either love or hate, no inbetween... afraid not, easy to be apathetic towards them... they're just metal and plastic like any other bike.

Wash your mouth out bleemin metal and plastic :slap:
O they're so much more!

People who choose to ride Italian choose them for PASSION

You ride it because of it's history, it's uniqueness, and it's soul. (Jap bikes don't have a soul or character)
It's the little things, the details, and the timeless design.

Ducati is not for everyone (not the price) but to the feeling a rider gets out of it. The torque curve is flatter, It handles nicely but it feels different. the engine sound is soooo unique.
Jap bikes have even tryed to copy the sound, fail!

After riding a ducati you still dont get it or dont like it, then a ducati is not for you.

If you want the fastest in a straight line, then Ducati is not for you (unless your wanting to spend bucket loads of money)

The feeling one gets when riding through bend after bend, flip, flop, into the next, chop of the power, brake hard, lower, lower.. down goes the knee, push hard, ease the power back on, in tune with the road, more power, start straightening up, back on full power....... flowing through as if your in sync with the gods who created that last perfect shaped arse of the pit girl you last saw. Grinning like an idiot behind the visor looking for the next corner to chop the throttle, hear that exhaust note, flowing through it and onto the next.
There is nothing else like it!

So much pleasure one gets from a Ducati's, what's the difference? I'm not a word smith and I can't put it into words...

Take one for a ride and find out!

[Oscar]

Wash your mouth out bleemin metal and plastic :slap:
O they're so much more!

People who choose to ride Italian choose them for PASSION

You ride it because of it's history, it's uniqueness, and it's soul. (Jap bikes don't have a soul or character)
It's the little things, the details, and the timeless design.

Ducati is not for everyone (not the price) but to the feeling a rider gets out of it. The torque curve is flatter, It handles nicely but it feels different. the engine sound is soooo unique.
Jap bikes have even tryed to copy the sound, fail!

After riding a ducati you still dont get it or dont like it, then a ducati is not for you.

If you want the fastest in a straight line, then Ducati is not for you (unless your wanting to spend bucket loads of money)

The feeling one gets when riding through bend after bend, flip, flop, into the next, chop of the power, brake hard, lower, lower.. down goes the knee, push hard, ease the power back on, in tune with the road, more power, start straightening up, back on full power....... flowing through as if your in sync with the gods who created that last perfect shaped arse of the pit girl you last saw. Grinning like an idiot behind the visor looking for the next corner to chop the throttle, hear that exhaust note, flowing through it and onto the next.
There is nothing else like it!

So much pleasure one gets from a Ducati's, what's the difference? I'm not a word smith and I can't put it into words...

Take one for a ride and find out!

I'm sorry, I tried to restrain my self here...but this is the biggest load of bollox I have read in sometime.

It's a motorbike, for God's sake. Yet you've imbued it with mystic powers, while (and this is the bit that got me going) saying that "..Jap bikes don't have a soul or character".

How do you know?
Have you ridden every last Jap model? Reading this thread, it would appear that "soul and character" can be translated to "quirkiness and unreliability", so on that basis plenty of Jap bikes have "soul and character"

Now whereas there are several Ducati's that I would own (the Multistrada and Hypermotard being two of them), some are complete piles of crap.

Pantah anyone?

Anyone mention the parallel twin they made in the eighties?

And finally, try this exercise - I've taken one of your more flowery bits of prose and substituted "Harley Davidson" for "Ducati":

Harley Davidson is not for everyone (not the price) but to the feeling a rider gets out of it. The torque curve is flatter, It handles nicely but it feels different. the engine sound is soooo unique.
Jap bikes have even tryed to copy the sound, fail!

After riding a Harley Davidson you still dont get it or dont like it, then a Harley Davidson is not for you.

If you want the fastest in a straight line, then Harley Davidson is not for you (unless your wanting to spend bucket loads of money)

It works - the wonders of marketing...

[imdying]

You ride it because of it's history, it's uniqueness, and it's soul. (Jap bikes don't have a soul or character)

You should take my RGV for a hoon, it has more 'soul or character' in its cute little motor than an old Italian shit heap. Anybody riding a marque because of its history instead of the merits of the particular model is an idiot who's been well sucked in... Salesman love those sorta people, they're called 'plums'.

It's the little things, the details, and the timeless design.

...uh huh, go the Paso eh?

The feeling one gets when riding through bend after bend, flip, flop, into the next, chop of the power, brake hard, lower, lower.. down goes the knee, push hard, ease the power back on, in tune with the road, more power, start straightening up, back on full power....... flowing through as if your in sync with the gods who created that last perfect shaped arse of the pit girl you last saw. Grinning like an idiot behind the visor looking for the next corner to chop the throttle, hear that exhaust note, flowing through it and onto the next.
There is nothing else like it!

Right.... and only a Ducati will give you that experience? Puuuhhleaseeee... you need to expand your horizons.


It's a motorbike, plastic and metal... you really want character? You really want soul? Strip your bike down and rebuild it, customize it... make it your own. Never will the day come that a factory can build that in... Passion comes from your own heart, you can't buy that in stores man, no matter what the nice Ducati salesman trys to tell ya


/edit: Well that was a waste of a post, I should've read Oscar's first is seems...

[Oscar]

You should take my RGV for a hoon, it has more 'soul or character' in its cute little motor than an old Italian shit heap. Anybody riding a marque because of its history instead of the merits of the particular model is an idiot who's been well sucked in... Salesman love those sorta people, they're called 'plums'.
...uh huh, go the Paso eh?

Right.... and only a Ducati will give you that experience? Puuuhhleaseeee... you need to expand your horizons.


It's a motorbike, plastic and metal... you really want character? You really want soul? Strip your bike down and rebuild it, customize it... make it your own. Never will the day come that a factory can build that in... Passion comes from your own heart, you can't buy that in stores man, no matter what the nice Ducati salesman trys to tell ya


/edit: Well that was a waste of a post, I should've read Oscar's first is seems...

No, no - nice rant, Grasshopper.

The Curmudgeonly-ness is strong in this one...

[imdying]

No, no - nice rant, Grasshopper.

The Curmudgeonly-ness is strong in this one...

Heh, I just feel that the testaretta equipped bikes have so much going for them, that to have to sell them off the back of magic fairy dust is actually pretty insulting for Ducati. The brakes, wheels and suspension alone makes the price of entry worth it on many models. I appreciate that not everyone has the time to take a GSXR1000 and hot rod it.

[vifferman]

they are hott!!!!!!!

Ooh! Ouch!
Saw that at a Ruapuna round of the NZ TT back in....hmmmm... 95? (the last time they had three (3!) Brittens racing). Duct-taped muffler on a Ducati caught on fire, was really kewl watching the guy pilot it with smoke'n'flames coming out the back. Lots of frantic signals down the main straight convinced him to bail at the end of the straight. He said, "Hmmmm.... I thought my arse was getting a bit hot!"

[vifferman]

Heh, I just feel that the testaretta equipped bikes have so much going for them

The testastretta bikes are even better.

As for 'character' - how do you define that? A certain amount of unreliability? Uncompromising ergonomics? Idiosyncratic design?
While I think I know what people mean by 'character', it's very subjective. My XBR500RS Mutant had loads of it: to start it, you had to fold up the right footpeg, turn the engine over to TDC, then leap on the kickstarter (no decompressor). It was noisy, I never quite got the fueling sorted, it had cheap shite tyres and suspension so it handled badly, and it needed constant fiddling to keep it going. Yet it was very satisfying owning it.
For a while.
Soon 'character' evolves into 'annoying pain in the arse'.

I test-rode a brand new CBR1000 back in 98 or thereabouts, when I owned my VF500. The CB was the loveliest, smoothest bike I'd ever ridden (still is). I knew instinctively that I'd find that smoothness boring after a while.
My VFR has character (the sound of the gear-driven cams and V4 flat drone; the vibes under load at certain revs), and it looks nice. The engineering isn't on show (made a feature of) like on an Italian bike, and there are aspects that are crap (the single-sided swingarm and hub must be the ugliest around), it doesn't have USD forks, and performance and style are sacrificed in favour of reliability and trying to appeal to a broad market. That has made it bland to some extent, but at least I know I don't have to worry about missing services. It also means that my one bike can serve as a commuter, sports bike, and two-up tourer.

Here's another comparison: the VTR1000 was brought out by Honda to replace the Honda Hawk 650 in the Mrkn market, and in direct response to the growing popularity of the Ducati 900SS (and later, the 916). At the same time, Suzuki released the TL1000 for much the same reasons.
The VTR is very much compromised: in standard form it's quiet, has 'less than perfect' suspension and handling, and (IMO) failed. If it was better looking, had better suspension, and a bit more power, it would've been a great bike. Instead, by being 'middle of the road' it really appealed only to those who were perhaps scared off by rumours of Ducati service costs and taints of unreliability that persisted from earlier models, or who trusted the Honda name, or couldn't afford to own an Italian bike. It has most of the v-twin character, and most of the Honda reliability, but it's compromised too much and ends up being bland.

[imdying]

The testastretta bikes are even better.

Yeah, them too!

[johan]

The testastretta bikes are even better.

But they can't beat the sound of a properly tuned desmoquattro!

[dipshit]

Heh, I just feel that the testaretta equipped bikes have so much going for them, that to have to sell them off the back of magic fairy dust is actually pretty insulting for Ducati. The brakes, wheels and suspension alone makes the price of entry worth it on many models.

I sort of understand what mikeey01 is saying. After having a ride on a mate's 998... it did kind of make my SV feel bland.

The Duke did handle better... holding whatever line you picked regardless of the bumps and potholes it went over.

In many ways i would prefer to have a Ducati sitting in the garage. Perhaps that "character" is its extra street cred..???

The main thing that puts me off however is the mileage i like to rack up. The SV i can get on and go without worrying about it. How many 998's and so on have 100,000 ks on them without too much trouble???

[imdying]

The extra $18000 odd dollars that the 998 cost... do you wonder what Robert Taylor could do for you with that? BST carbon wheels, custom setup Ohlins Road and Track forks, and a TTX shock, that's what. Who's handling better now? Plus you won't be riding just another off the rack bike either (which lets face it, is what a 998 is).

[dipshit]

The extra $18000 odd dollars that the 998 cost... do you wonder what Robert Taylor could do for you with that? BST carbon wheels, custom setup Ohlins Road and Track forks, and a TTX shock, that's what. Who's handling better now? Plus you won't be riding just another off the rack bike either (which lets face it, is what a 998 is).

Very true. But for all the money i could throw at it - it will still only be a SV.

I feel i would rather putting all that money into a nice Ducati instead.

[imdying]

Very true. But for all the money i could throw at it - it will still only be a SV.

I feel i would rather putting all that money into a nice Ducati instead.

Now you're being silly again... it's just a motorbike, the type of badge doesn't change that. For all the red paintwork... it's still only a Ducati. It's not like it's an MV or anything (if you see my point?)

[Winston001]

Now you're being silly again... it's just a motorbike, the type of badge doesn't change that. For all the red paintwork... it's still only a Ducati. It's not like it's an MV or anything (if you see my point?)

Horses for courses. You are right, a purpose built bike that is unique to you should always be special - unique. The badge becomes irrelevant but in that case, any badge should be removed. I quite like seeing bikes without a manufacturers emblem. Any prejudice is automatically removed.

Humans are not creatures of logic - we have individual emotional drives which differ from person to person. Viva la difference! Its why we argue, its where we get our passion from, it provides the variety and spice of life. Wouldn't the world be a dull bland place if we only made choices based on logic? No Taj Mahal, no Eiffel Tower, no Dussenburg.......

Very true. But for all the money i could throw at it - it will still only be a SV.

I feel i would rather putting all that money into a nice Ducati instead.

And this ultimately is the answer for most of us. Why experiment with another machine when you can get what you enjoy in one package?!

If Ducatis were really unreliable, very expensive to service, and had short engine lives - do you think the company would still be in business? Think of Triumph Meridian, Norton, BSA.......... The reality is Ducati are very similar to the Japanese bikes in modern reliability terms. Their edge is they excite an extra frisson of spirit in owners - indefinable but essential.

If this spirit or passion were only marketing hype then IMHO Honda would win. Indeed they probably do on a profitability basis. No amount of hype will protect sub-standard products over the long term which is why Ducati upped their game in the mid-90s to improve reliability.

I don't think of my bike as having character when a screw comes loose - my mates with Japanese and German bikes have identical small events. The character comes from the whole package which includes the physical design. The Italians have a flair for that.