Moto2 replacing the 250 class in 2011...

[Sully60]

James Deuce's post above

Thank you for putting that so eloquently Jim. Plus one does my agreement with every sentiment of that post no justice.

It just looks like a half arsed, pseudo prototype, mud blood replacement of one of the few pure classes of any motor racing left.

World Supersport is going to attract a lot more sponsors now than ever before.
That's what I'll be watching.

[samgab]

I'll be interested to see how it pans out, and what, if any, effect it has on the retail market.
Racing definitely affects the bikes available in retail.

For instance, look at all the great 400cc bikes that were available in the 90's, but there are no new ones now.
When really, for many people, a 400cc is about the perfect size. Lighter than a big bike, but still can be quick: at least quicker than a 250.
But the technology on 400 bikes has stalled, time warped back in the 90's.
I wonder what sort of 400 bikes could be around today, if the racing had kept a class for 400s.
Imagine a 2009 version of the RVF400: V4, fuel injected, lighter than a CBR600RR... *sighs*

[samgab]

It says in the chassis regs that using production frames swingarms etc is forbidden. So almost the entire bike - frame, engine, etc will pretty much be a prototype. Like motoGP 800s but with tighter rules for cost cutting.

Oh yeah, you're right; and the bikes I mentioned already are made specifically to fit into the Supersport category. *facepalm* :slap:

[James Deuce]

I was shocked that they went for a 600cc class for Moto2. A multi-cylinder 400cc class made much more sense to me, both from a performance perspective and the "layman's logic" perspective of 400cc being half of 800cc.

Even 500cc would have made better sense, but then there's the inevitable uneducated comparison with the 2 stroke 500cc monsters (monsters more because of tyre and chassis "limitations". Compounding progress is cool.) of season's gone by.

It would have been possible for that class to replace both stroker classes and start a 125 four stroke class up. Sales you see.

I guess they went to 600 to avoid spectacular engine failures so they could maintain the power to weight ratios of the 250s without highly stressed engines.

Bugger that!

[wbks]

Imagine a 2009 version of the RVF400: V4, fuel injected, lighter than a CBR600RR... *sighs*

So get out there, make some castings and re do the whole bike into a complete frame, Mr. Briten

[samgab]

So get out there, make some castings and re do the whole bike into a complete frame, Mr. Briten

lol, oh noes, here we go again!

Of course, I could just buy an RVF400 and fit fuel injection to it, after dumping the carbies. I mean, who can seriously be bothered synchronising 4 carbs!

[wbks]

Well the idea of an engine (same design is fine) that isn't 20 years old and been rolled bowled and arseholed is appealing, yes? You could put it under your own name and make the "samgab factory team Badass450-FRV". It would own the f3...

[samgab]

Well the idea of an engine (same design is fine) that isn't 20 years old and been rolled bowled and arseholed is appealing, yes? You could put it under your own name and make the "samgab factory team Badass450-FRV". It would own the f3...

Hmmm, I like the sound of that. Now all I need is the funding, technical know-how, intelligence, and ability to do that, and it'll be sorted

Maybe I should just write a tersely worded letter to Honda, demanding a new RVF400 for 2010 with all the latest tech. Let them do all the RnD. I'm sure they'd listen and take action on that?
If they did come out with a new one, for a reasonable price, that'd be my pick for a brand new bike as a step up from the VTR.

Like you say, I'm not so keen on the idea of paying over $5G for one that's 20 years old and has been owned by an unknown number of other noobs and mistreated and dropped and thrashed....

[gammaguy]

lol, oh noes, here we go again!

Of course, I could just buy an RVF400 and fit fuel injection to it, after dumping the carbies. I mean, who can seriously be bothered synchronising 4 carbs!

LOL

i suppose you think injectors never need synchronising then?ever worked on a VFR 800?what do you think those holes in the side of the frame are for?

[samgab]

LOL

i suppose you think injectors never need synchronising then?ever worked on a VFR 800?what do you think those holes in the side of the frame are for?

Are you saying that the injectors in a fuel injected bike need synchronising? I would have thought the ECU would take care of all that... based on a crank position sensor etc.

[wbks]

Well it is honda so there's no chance of them listening to a customer. I'll tell you what, if I ever get around to a casting side of engineering I'll re make a few rvf's in 450 form which will be pneumatic valved (or possible electro hydrualically controlled, I'm waiting to hear back from Renault on testing results), FI and run off higher comp. pistons etc through an essentially renamed, road legal honda rs250 frame... I'll sell one to you for 30, 000 about?

Anyway. We've established most think it's a bad idea, but does anyone really think that a certain amount of GP stuff will 'trickle down' to road going 600's? i.e Yamaha's crossplane crankshaft following in concept from the M1...

[Ivan]

have FIM created rules for a Moto1 class yet as we all know 2014 is the final year for 125's as we know it I think by the looks they want to head along the lines of the Honda MDH250 Woriwaki which uses a Honda CRF250X engine not the R I never understood the reasoning for this as the X is more a trail based bike not as grunty as the CRF250R and has the extras like the starter motor.

My opinion here on 125's for the Future Good idea along Moriwaki ways but run 450 engines that would be better suited as a bit more speed

Ok lets start the discussion here about the future 125's


And PS 400's arent as coool as SV's

[James Deuce]

Anyway. We've established most think it's a bad idea, but does anyone really think that a certain amount of GP stuff will 'trickle down' to road going 600's? i.e Yamaha's crossplane crankshaft following in concept from the M1...

No, because there is a single engine supplier. The engines will be about meeting the class rules exactly, not trying new stuff out.

[Sully60]

the Honda MDH250 Woriwaki which uses a Honda CRF250X engine not the R I never understood the reasoning for this as the X is more a trail based bike not as grunty as the CRF250R and has the extras like the starter motor.

Change the cam to an R spec and you have an R with a starter motor and a slightly heavier flywheel. The engine architecture is exactley the same. I guess the reasons for using the X engine have more to do with just specific power output.

I agree with the Deuce about 400's too, half and 800 with the same technology,way cool! Way costly too, actual capacity of engines has very little to with R&D, end cost and ongoing maintenance.

As I said in the aother thread, there are other ways of keeping costs down without 'dumbing' he technological aspects of Grand Prix racing.

[DEATH_INC.]

This has gotta be the biggest abortion ever.