Bikers getting pulled over at Battle Hill & Featherston (15 February)

[Flossi]

I think that little questionnaire will be very telling.

well, i read 15 of the replies today and they were all perfectly fine and normal (surprisingly, I thought more riders would rate themselves as 'Excellent'! )


Ah well, we tried....

[Flossi]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=59539

thanks for that link. I've just discovered that entire section, will have to read through it another day, bed is calling and I need my beauty sleep

Since we don't have any WRB's here in the Wairarapa there's not a lot 'I' can do about them. Any budget we have for work we do is only for our region, but I will still have a good read through and discuss it with others

[Hitcher]

by all means, give me other suggestions with 'better' ways to do it, I'm all ears

Targeting "bad" riders is pointless. An assumption is that by giving them propaganda and a chocolate bar, they'll read that and be moved to change whatever it is they do that's supposed to be evil.

The "logic" of the ACC argument is that it's bad riders who fuck up. That is just not true. I know a couple of very good riders who have had accidents, caused by a moment's inattention or a bad decision or whatever, and who are now dead. The "horror" stats that were handed out on Sunday had only three deaths recorded since 2003 in the Wairarapa. I know of a couple more that weren't recorded, but that is beside the point. The way these stats were presented also implied that these accidents and mishaps were caused by "foreigners".

This view was reinforced by a mildly irritating comment from the well intentioned lady who I chatted with who said that the Wairarapa's roads are "theirs". Mrs H and I and many other "Wellington" riders I know would cover more km in the Wairarapa each year than many bikers who live there. "Ownership" of the roads does not imply inside knowledge, concern for the well-being of fellow riders or "special" treatment. Indeed as taxpayers and regional ratepayers, we're all in this together.

Bullshit nonsense from collectors of "statistics" and professional "analysts" would endeavour to have people believe that SH53 is the most dangerous road in the region. People like that cannot and should not be taken seriously.

Most motorcyclists are aware of the risks of motorcycling. That is the coin we toss every time we leave home and it's very much why we ride. Safety nanas just don't get that. Bless them.

[GrayWolf]

thank you!
we're not saying that all riders are shit, I'm sure there are a lot of fantastic riders out there (mostly on KB right?! )
but since i haven't yet figured out how to spot the one bad rider out of the group of 10 or 20 good ones, we kind of have to 'target' everyone.

by all means, give me other suggestions with 'better' ways to do it, I'm all ears

The simple answer why we are so 'anti' Flossi, is Polititians. I'll explain.
In the early 80's in the UK the Transport Minister, one peter Bottomley, decided from reading 'facts, survey results and scientific research that he would introduce COMPULSORY leg protectors on ALL Motorcycles. The 'Survey' was the number of people in Orthopedic wards with leg injuries from bike accidents added to the TRRL 'research' performed using ONLY BMW's on skid frames with the cylinders removed being impacted (T boned by) on Morris Marina cars. The research 'proved' that leg protectors produced a significant reduction in leg injuries (impact).
FACT! they didnt use any 4 cyl inline bikes or other makes/stlyes of cars, like 'wedge shaped', or low sports cars. The Medical Board came out in arguement that the leg protectors would significantly raise the incident of knee injuries by the lower leg being 'trapped' as the body was thrown forwards, causing the knee to bend opposite to its intended range of movement. Bottomley had facts and STATISTICS on his side and would not back down, just like a certain 'antismacking bill' Instigator. It took a HUGE effort from Medical, Lobby Group (MAG) and the Federation of European Motorcyclists to get the bill squashed. it was Bottomlies way to 'make his name in politics'. He lost his portfolio over it. So your innocent survey, at some time is more than likely to provide some Political wanker the ammuntion they can glean from the Stats to force a nice compulsory safety law on those poor wretched MINORITY motorcyclists.
AND there's the rub, we ARE a Minority and therfore an easy target. The increased ACC levies were placed on us, why? because statistics prove that although the main cause of injury is 'didnt see you mate' WE MOTORCYCLISTS are the highest cost motoring wise to ACC, so we got stung in the pocket. Can you imagine the reaction if they had doubled the levy on car drivers instead??

[James Deuce]

thank you!
we're not saying that all riders are shit, I'm sure there are a lot of fantastic riders out there (mostly on KB right?! )
but since i haven't yet figured out how to spot the one bad rider out of the group of 10 or 20 good ones, we kind of have to 'target' everyone.

by all means, give me other suggestions with 'better' ways to do it, I'm all ears

Teach people how to drive/ride, how to share, how to use their vehicle courteously. Stop lecturing them about that and teach them from the inception of their driving/riding career. It is the only way to improve the current situation, especially as it is a given that road conditions and vehicle density are only ever going to get worse.

Stop teaching people how to pass a license test and how to fill in an insurance claim form, and how to dodge the eye test.

[James Deuce]

AND there's the rub, we ARE a Minority and therfore an easy target. The increased ACC levies were placed on us, why? because statistics prove that although the main cause of injury is 'didnt see you mate' WE MOTORCYCLISTS are the highest cost motoring wise to ACC, so we got stung in the pocket. Can you imagine the reaction if they had doubled the levy on car drivers instead??

Don't use that argument with ACC or its staff. They'll start charging us what we should be paying, which is roughly $500 a year each.

The "didn't see you thing" is a myth, in regard to it being the biggest cause of motorcycle accidents. It's prevalent at intersections and people exiting driveways. Mostly we fall off by ourselves. Dropping the bike avoiding an accident is still falling off by yourself.

[James Deuce]

well, i read 15 of the replies today and they were all perfectly fine and normal (surprisingly, I thought more riders would rate themselves as 'Excellent'! )


Ah well, we tried....

How can motorcyclists possibly in all honesty rate themselves as excellent when practically every group ride one goes on, someone falls off?

I'm pleased to hear that the group who filled in the form haven't succumbed to hubris.

I ride every day, but I'd rate myself below average. What I know about riding a bike and motorcycle vehicle dynamics can be written on a napkin. If I print carefully and write using a large font size.

[GrayWolf]

The "didn't see you thing" is a myth, in regard to it being the biggest cause of motorcycle accidents. It's prevalent at intersections and people exiting driveways. Mostly we fall off by ourselves. Dropping the bike avoiding an accident is still falling off by yourself.

[I[/I]


Thats fair comment, the point I was making in Vechile to vechile (M/c Vs Car)
how frequently the cause is didnt see you by the car driver, Vs didnt see you by the M/cyclist?
And I'd agree to compulsory insurance...... its one way the jap import $10,000HSEVORD FPSSRX turbo nutter bastards would be taken out of the hands of youth......... Market pricing!

[Max Preload]

And I'd agree to compulsory insurance...... its one way the jap import $10,000HSEVORD FPSSRX turbo nutter bastards would be taken out of the hands of youth......... Market pricing!

That's a ridiculous argument. You think they pay cash for their "jap import $10,000HSEVORD FPSSRX turbo"? No. They HP them, so they're already insured.

[trustme]

Flossi, It is not just the poor standard of riding that is the problem, it is the abysmal decision making that goes on.
The first I constantly see with guys struggling to handle bikes at low speeds, many can't even complete a full lock feet up U turn. I remember one of the motorcycle cop instructors telling me of a course he ran for a club , the 2 instructors were alarmed at how poor some of the guys were. Guys who rode 2 up could not complete the course 1 up in safety so how safe was their passenger when they are on the open road.
The second & I think potentially greater problem is we make extremely poor decisions that mean we ride well beyond our skill level & safety Witness :-
Sunday. 6 riders following a car at legal speed on the open road [SH16] as we approach a corner an idjut passes us at high speed , by the time he gets to the car it is in the corner , he can't slow down, you see him flinch for a second then over the yellow lines, wrong side of the road passing the car in mid corner. I could see there were no cars coming but I certainly could not be sure about another bike, I doubt the Idjut had time to look ahead , an accident waiting to happen , caused by piss poor decision making.
To the guys who snivel about being stopped at the check point , the underlying message is if we don't sort ourselves out , the authorities will , then you will really have something to snivel about

[Usarka]

Anyhoo, where was I? ... a Road Safety Coordinator attempts to educate the community about road safety issues and tries to find ways to reduce the road toll. Well, that's a part of my job anyway.

What are your views (and ACC's if you know them) on the following:

• Advanced road skills training (riders and drivers)
• Tougher license tests
• The psychology behind risk taking and the hypothesis that as more and more risks are mitigated by legislation that humans subconciously seek alternate outlets for risk taking.

Thanks

[sunhuntin]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=59539

exactly, ocean. how many times have we made our concerns clear, even taking it right to transits doorstep, only to be told what they think we want to hear?
i find it interesting that cheesecutters werent listed on that section of the questionaire. those would be one of my top concerns when riding a road that has them.

[Deano]

by all means, give me other suggestions with 'better' ways to do it, I'm all ears

Well 'they' tried the Road Safe seminars a few years back. Despite cliaming to be an open discussion, the focus (read agenda) was on speed, youth and alcohol.

Funny how concerns raised by motorcyclists at the seminars (poor diesel/effluent containment and if I recall correctly driver training) did not make it into the Ministers final report to ACC.

And you wonder why the cynism ?

As Road Safety Co-ordinator - do you liaise with your roading division to see that road surfaces (steel utility covers) on the road are made safer ?

It's odd that some manhole covers get a layer of asphalt on them, improving grip phenomonally, while other 2m x 1m steel plates get left as they are, creating a serious slip hazard when wet.

Gravel left from road works, and unmarked.....the list goes on.

[trustme]

I don't get some of you guys , you moan about the road conditions , the cheese cutters & all the hazards out there , you want the gummint to eliminate these risks to our safety , you want them to take action & when they do & they get it wrong as they usually do ,you still snivel.
Be as cynical as you like but when you read a thread like the Harley idjut overtaking in Mt Vic Tunnel, isn't it really up to us to sort our shit out.
Knock off the cry babies & be responsible for your own riding. Every one needs to take responsibility for their own actions & stop blaming everyone else & our safety record will improve. The blame game is something the govt plays far better than we do.

[Hitcher]

Be as cynical as you like but when you read a thread like the Harley idjut overtaking in Mt Vic Tunnel, isn't it really up to us to sort our shit out.

These are two completely different issues.

Firstly, we can't sort out the idiots amongst us. Where they break the law or endanger the lives of others, we should take some action. But idiots in any community (ours being the community of motorcyclists) will, like death and taxes, be something of an inevitability.

Secondly, there are things that authorities can do to make motorcycling safer. These include non-slip road markings, abrasive steel covers, sign-posted roadworks, manadatory underpasses for dairy cattle, enforced regulations about spill-free diesel containers on moving vehicles, driver training, quality barriers, etc.

It is this second category where real progress can be made, and would be a preferable area of focus for the do-gooders amongst us, rather than them flagging down their colleagues and giving them a chocolate bar and a Map Of Death.