How do we ban gangs?

[Dave Lobster]

Let's all be serious here. There's no way any government is going to do ANYTHING to gangs while they're predominantly brown people.

You can't be seen to be upsetting the alleged natives.

White people have a habit of backing down immediately that a brown one screams racist. Whether it's racism or not, is irrelevent.

[ManDownUnder]

Covertly mix some contagious but curable STD spores/virus/whatever into the cocaine, P and anything else the gangs sell... then publicise it.

Have a few doses of the clap start showing up, make up some story about it being traced back to (insert known drug lord HQ here) via the particular strains found... and people will stay the hell away from that shit.

Those that don't care will come under pressure from their partners, and the social stigma of STDs will be passed onto the gangs making them outcasts.

[imdying]

The notorious felon idea is interesting, but remind me again why we shouldn't just hang people that we've identified as being a serious repitive enough problem as to warrant singling out like that?

[Winston001]

Right: first we have to decide what a gang is.

Simple is best. A gang is a loose association of people who share a common identity and engage in criminal acts.

Not perfect but the more words used, the less clear any definition becomes.


I think there are two issues to solve:

1. Controlling and eliminating organised gangs.

2. Removing the attraction of gangs for the next generation of wannabes - and filling the need that a gang currently answers.


As for control, its a tough one. The police have powers to enter premises, monitor bank accounts, tap phones etc but they have to get warrants first - which means evidence of criminal activity. These gang types might not be too bright as a rule, but they do have intelligent leaders who cover their tracks. A lot of the open criminal behaviour is carried out by prospects, not the important members.

Gang members also understand to keep staunch so getting confessions etc from them is harder than with the average crim.

The big problem for us as a society is do we hand powers to the police to attack gangs.....and just hope they won't use those powers on the rest of us?

[Max Preload]

You can't ban gangs. or you end up banning Ulysses or the RSA.

But you can enforce the existing laws. Which the police are strangely reluctant to use where gangs are concerned.

Just like they're reluctant to use existing laws against 'boi racers' ,like say unlawful assembly, and instead want ever greater powers which will affect the entire population.

[Winston001]

We used to have "non-association" laws which made it an offence to consort with known criminals. However those were removed because one of our democratic ideals is freedom of association. And so it should be.

Not a fan of the three strikes laws but maybe thats what we need. I like Ixion's idea of the notorious fellon. Such a label would include non-association. Cut these guys off from their mates and their influence will fade.

[Mikkel]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topf_and_Sons

Probably the fucking russians.

Hmmm, the company went to Eastern Germany. If China is anything to go by communism don't care too much about patents. As such the plans may be considered public domain.

[Clockwork]

Ix, pretty clearly I am (rabidly ?) on the side of freedom and liberty. Yet here, I see no problem.

Our government seems intent on passing laws that reduce the freedom, privacy and liberty of all New Zealanders.

Yet we dont need that. All we need to do is properly address the 0.5% of us that are criminal.

I don't see any problem at all with the NF idea, indeed it has my full support.

+1

How about three strikes and your a Notorious Fellon?

[Winston001]

+1

How about three strikes and your a Notorious Fellon?

Yep why not. Its a good start.

[Boob Johnson]

Ask what need they fill - then fill it before the gangs do. (phychobabble warning)

Everyone has a need to belong somewhere. The most attractive option is usually taken (assuming people have any choices and or brains) and for those not fitting anywhere else... structured organisations fill that need. Gangs are one such organisation.

What was missing from the life of gang members that the gang now supplies? THAT is what we need to deliver on as a society. Once that's done, gangs become irrelevant

Whats missing?


Love


Most of the people that gravitate towards gangs have had shit upbringings, their parents for the most part are to blame.


The Mongrel Mob was formed in the 60's from a bunch that had had terrible upbringings, who were then fostered out & treated just as bad if not worse by their care givers (ill never get why people adopt & then treat the kid(s) just as bad if not worse ). They basically gave up on societies rules (hard to blame them) & went around running a muck, one particular judge said to them "you're just a bunch of mongrels" & the gang name was born.


Not enough love in this world, so many of worlds issues can be solved with a little understanding, empathy & of course love.


John Lennon was onto something

[peasea]

Most of the people that gravitate towards gangs have had shit upbringings, their parents for the most part are to blame.

:

Correct, and they find a sense of 'belonging' that they didn't have at home. It's done and dusted before they get to school.

[Boob Johnson]

Correct, and they find a sense of 'belonging' that they didn't have at home. It's done and dusted before they get to school.

Goodness only knows what the solution is, there sure isn't a "silver bullet". But we obviously need more education for general parenting skills to rise, how that should be implemented is another question altogether

[popelli]

+1

How about three strikes and your a Notorious Fellon?

How about three strikes and you are out of circulation permanently

This would save on expensive prisons and prevent reoffending

After a person has had 2 spells in club fed if they have not learnt from their mistakes then they probably won't

Also enviromentally friendly as it would help reduce the carbon footprint caused by building larger prisons and supplying services to them

[peasea]

Goodness only knows what the solution is, there sure isn't a "silver bullet". But we obviously need more education for general parenting skills to rise, how that should be implemented is another question altogether

Generally speaking you're right about parenting skills but it's not always the case. I know of an individual who is in Parry for life. He was convicted of murder, supposedly shot someone 'execution style', I don't know for sure, I wasn't there. However, he had neat, hardworking parents. They were old school, great moral standing, no b/s people. This guy's siblings aren't in trouble with the law, don't think they ever have been. I'm not even sure if the convicted member of this family even had any priors.

I can honestly say that, in this case, perenting was not to blame. People make a choice, whether it's to pull a trigger OR join a gang.

[98tls]

One more for the "notorious felon" idea.
3 strikes works too.
I like the idea of repeat offenders being worse and worse off the more times they offend, it should double.
If the sentence for armed robbery is 5 years the next sentence should be 10 years.

Still not sure where I stand on capital punishment, I think we need to come up with a form of exile.

Judges cant even deal with disq drivers let alone armed robbers,in the ODT today some bloke with 31 driving whilst disq charges was given 300 hours community work for the latest one.