Labour hid 1.5 BILLION ACC shortfall - Ministerial inquiry

[ManDownUnder]

Good point.

I thought the blue colour was rememberance for the orphans that John Key strangles every night for dinner??

Common misconception - he only strangles black kids and you can't actually see them go blue. It's all part of the racial purity policy to be announced after the next election

[ManDownUnder]

Good point.

I thought the blue colour was rememberance for the orphans that John Key strangles every night for dinner??

Elementary. It may not be common knowledge that those little blue penguins are fifth columnists for the Liarbour party (after all - they are soooo cute), but it becomes totally obvious after they are given the bash. They show their true colour. RED!

LMAO - you two are as full of shit as that other guy... What's his name - skyrider?

[Badjelly]

It's a projected shortfall and the solution is simple: raise ACC levies and/or reduce payouts. This has already been done, to a small extent, but more is needed. National is making a big noise about it, because they know they have to do it, but would like to blame it on Labour.

[Tank]

It's a projected shortfall and the solution is simple: raise ACC levies and/or reduce payouts. This has already been done, to a small extent, but more is needed. National is making a big noise about it, because they know they have to do it, but would like to blame it on Labour.

Yes - we know its a projected shortfall.

Yes Labour deserves the blame for it - after all it was them that caused it.

The issue is that the KNEW about it and HID the information it even tho that was required to be disclosed under the Public Finance Act.

Thats filthy politics and they should be held to account for illegally misleading the public and the opposition (of the time)

[Tank]

NBR states today:

The Public Finance Act is pretty clear on what is an offence, and what the penalties are.

Under section 76 (1) of the act, an offence is committed by anyone who, without reasonable excuse: refuses or fails to produce any information in their possession or under their control relating to “financial management, financial performance, or banking activities of a department or in relation to the management or control of any Crown asset or liability” when required to do so under the act.

The following section, 76 (2) states someone also commits an offence if they make “any statement or declaration, or gives any infor­mation or certificate, required by or pursuant to this Act, knowing it to be false or misleading.”

The potential penalty for the first of these is a maximum fine of $2000.


The second is more serious and includes a possible prison term of up to 12 months or a fine of up to $5000.

The chances of this happening are not high. But they’re not impossible either.
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Too much to wish for that Cullen gets 12 months jail huh?

[Skyryder]

The other Problem we will have now is how will they get it back???.

It's a shortfall. It has not happened. So it can not be paid back.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Yes - we know its a projected shortfall.

Yes Labour deserves the blame for it - after all it was them that caused it.

The issue is that the KNEW about it and HID the information it even tho that was required to be disclosed under the Public Finance Act.

Thats filthy politics and they should be held to account for illegally misleading the public and the opposition (of the time)

The issue is that did Labour know and did they deliberately hide this information? If English has any evidence of either one or both then he needs to come clean and produce this evidence. It’s all very well to make media statements that this is Labour's fault. I’d be looking to officials for mistakes. They did make a massive one earlier where extra dosh was discovered. Just don’t recall the details.
However as things stand it appears that English’s objective is political gain. But since there is none here as National are the government it may be nothing more than spite. Cullen has acknowledge that he is leaving Parliament so I’m looking for other motives. A softening up process for the public to reduce any opposition for the sale of ACC.

Skyryder

[yungatart]

-----

Too much to wish for that Cullen gets 12 months jail huh?

F**k that!
Then I'm still paying to keep that slimy little bastard...burn him, I say!

[Skyryder]

NBR states today:

The Public Finance Act is pretty clear on what is an offence, and what the penalties are.

Under section 76 (1) of the act, an offence is committed by anyone who, without reasonable excuse: refuses or fails to produce any information in their possession or under their control relating to “financial management, financial performance, or banking activities of a department or in relation to the management or control of any Crown asset or liability” when required to do so under the act.

The following section, 76 (2) states someone also commits an offence if they make “any statement or declaration, or gives any infor­mation or certificate, required by or pursuant to this Act, knowing it to be false or misleading.”

The potential penalty for the first of these is a maximum fine of $2000.


The second is more serious and includes a possible prison term of up to 12 months or a fine of up to $5000.

The chances of this happening are not high. But they’re not impossible either.
-----

Too much to wish for that Cullen gets 12 months jail huh?

Where is English's evidence for a prosecution?

Skyryder

[Patrick]

Where is English's evidence for a prosecution?

Skyryder

Still looking. Labour hid that, too......

[paturoa]

You could then argue that they were so occupied with hiding ACC's shorfall but you could also argue that the ministry is incompetant. I seem to recall Cullen and the ministery finding some extra cash that they did not know they had. So I'd go for incompetance.

... so you think that "the ministry" is incompetent for telling several liarbour senior ministers about the shortfall, but the senior ministers are NOT incompent for hiding said info?

This may surprise you, but I fully agree with you that the senior Liarbour ministers were not as incompetent as you make out the "the ministry" to be. So where does that leave us? A deliberate act of deception?

This bullshit from English is nothing more than a PR campaign to soften up the public for the sale of ACC to private providers.

... so you think that, your words

- that an incomptetent ministry
- that attempts to hide $1.5 bill (deliberatly? - huh?)

.... would do a better job than commercial companies subject to copmmercial disclosure laws and competition?

The issue is that did Labour know and did they deliberately hide this information

... you seem to be a little slower than the rest of us on this one but your finally getting the point, that is a big fat YES.

I’d be looking to officials for mistakes.

Do you mean scapegoats? Just as well your not in gubbermint.

They did make a massive one earlier where extra dosh was discovered. Just don’t recall the details.

So the officals are incompetent for making not one but at least two "massive ones". Hmm interesting view. But a gubbermint isn't - OK once, but twice?

However as things stand it appears that English’s objective is political gain. But since there is none here

.... can I have some of your drugs please.

...as National are the government it may be nothing more than spite.

... yeah telling us about a $1.5 bill shortfall is just spite - oh please.

Cullen has acknowledge that he is leaving Parliament so I’m looking for other motives. A softening up process for the public to reduce any opposition for the sale of ACC.

... how about you just look at the situation?

[Swoop]

Yep. I can see the reasoning behind it now...
H 'How can we get a fourth term?"
C 'We'll buy it of course"
H "With what?"
C "This'll never be missed"
H "Why not?"
C "Because when we're back in, we'll fudge everything again, and no-one will know"
H "But what if some clever Nat finds us out?"
C "No worries....we'll just get that prat SkyRyder to say it was Key's fault"
H "Brilliant. I knew it wasn't us that lied, cheated and stole from the public purse. Do it"

Oh c'mon. Go easy on SkyRanter.
He is having difficulties with the "Jobs Summit" concept...
The alien concept that the government is actually asking for input from the public, instead of Liarbour simply shoving policy after policy down our collective throat, has not registered with him. "Democracy" it might be called. "The Government working FOR the populace" might be another?

If he can't get that concept, then outright fraudlent representations to the public, prior to the election, is a lost cause...

[Skyryder]

The fact that some of you need to change my login name just demonstrates how weak your arguements are. If you realy want to have a go do so by all means but this bullshit I can sort out by typing with one finger.

English is playing politics. It is no more and no less than that. Its what politicians do.
It's just part of the Westminster system that we live under.

When Cullen retires the whole lot of them will be singing his praise both Key and English together.

Skyryder

[Tank]

Where is English's evidence for a prosecution?

Skyryder

Just shows how slow you are.

Its not English's evidence - Its the ministerial inquiry. And they satated:

The report finds that the shortfall should have been disclosed, so in effect the requirements of the Public Finance Act were not met by the then Government.

The report finds that back on 4 August 2008 the ACC Board determined it would need more Crown funding, and that this was communicated to the Minister of 14 August 2008. They specifically advised of their intention to seek $1.559 billion over the next five years including $306 million in the *current* year.

Treasury advised Michael Cullen of this on 1 September 2008.

Cullen - despite the 'rules' of what has to be disclosed didnt.

So there you go facts - not fiction. Happy now (of course not - coz you crazy)

So he either hid it - or he is incompetent.

Take your pick - Im going with both.

[Skyryder]

Just shows how slow you are.

Its not English's evidence - Its the ministerial inquiry. And they satated:

The report finds that the shortfall should have been disclosed, so in effect the requirements of the Public Finance Act were not met by the then Government.

The report finds that back on 4 August 2008 the ACC Board determined it would need more Crown funding, and that this was communicated to the Minister of 14 August 2008. They specifically advised of their intention to seek $1.559 billion over the next five years including $306 million in the *current* year.

Treasury advised Michael Cullen of this on 1 September 2008.

Cullen - despite the 'rules' of what has to be disclosed didnt.

So there you go facts - not fiction. Happy now (of course not - coz you crazy)

So he either hid it - or he is incompetent.

Take your pick - Im going with both.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/storie...3/1245a3617280

Read the bit about the apologie and how Treasury got it wrong

Skyryder