Labour's $1 billion train set now worthless

[xwhatsit]

supply a nation of only 4 million spread over two long mountainous islands.......

Could you have a better set-up for a rail network, though? You only need one main line -- it's a linear nation

Would've been nice though if whoever is in charge could've insisted they built the locomotives in the Hutt workshops instead of in China, as mentioned in the article. It might've been a bit more expensive but they're all overseas components anyway and we all need a boost, don't we.

[Tank]

I never fly Air NZ. Knowing how dysfunctional and incompetent their business is on the ground, it scares me to think how they keep their planes in the sky.

Its OK - they outsource the important stuff.

[vifferman]

...how important is it for New Zealanders to see the Koru tail in places like London and Los Angeles?I dont know,thats all a matter of opinion.

I prefer flying Air NZ - I like the flight crew and (except when my wife torture my by ordering 'special' meals) the food served. Also, if I'm flying to Yurp, flying AirNZ via Hong Kong is still the quickest way to get there.

Of course, with my wife being staff, there are significant savings to be had on tickets.

I never fly Air NZ. Knowing how dysfunctional and incompetent their business is on the ground, it scares me to think how they keep their planes in the sky.

They've actually got very good engineering workshops, that until they were vastly undercut by China and other Asian workshops, were doing significant business servicing other airlines (and also jet turbines from naval vessels).
I'd much rather fly a NZ-serviced plane than some of the other crappy airlines.

Its OK - they outsource the important stuff.

Like what?

[Skyryder]

I sit here waiting waiting for Skyryder to tell me how this is Nationals fault as well.

Bill English’s diatribe should be seen for what it is. But in the interests of those with an open mind I shall refrain from commenting my views until later.

Treasury had been talks with Toll NZ over rail access agreements and track upgrade work. If the overseas owners on the tracks had have kept our rail system in proper repair there would have been no need for Labour to have repurchased the track network in the first place. So the start of this process was due to Toll’s refusal to allow Ontrack access to the rail network, for repairs, upgrades and maintenance. So the beginning of this was not Labours fault but that of the ‘private’ sector. This needs to be understood.

OnTrack [which owns and manages the rail network] was put in place to do the buy-back deal. This was in 2004.

The reasoning behind this is a bit more complex than that stated but in essence it revolved around two things. Business NZ refusal to invest in rail operations due to Toll’s uncertain future operating in New Zealand (they might sell up and any agreements with NZ business may have become null and void with new owners. No company is going to heavily invest if this investment is going to be subject saleable issues) and that political fall out that with continued taxpayer subsidies to an offshore company would inevitably occur.

I can remember reading in the NBR favorable comments from the business community at the time of the purchase. I do not have access to this as of now so the following comments will have to do to support my claim.

MainFreight chief executive Don Braid said the sale would give some certainty.
"There has been a problem with the debate and aggravation between Ontrack and Toll over access fees and I guess the seas were somewhat clouded as to how much infrastructure was being invested in by Toll," he told NZPA.
"Certainly we've seen a deterioration in services over the last couple of years as there's a lack of investment in infrastructure in New Zealand and this announcement may well see that infrastructure being improved which would be good for all of us."Stuff 5/5/2008

This is of course in complete contrast to what Bill English is now saying. And bear in mind that John Key bought rail shares hoping to make a buck out of this. So Key also thought the deal was good if not for us the taxpayer but then for himself.

The purpose of English’s diatribe is further acknowledgment of his failed attempt to embarrass the Labour of the ACC blow out and has now shifted his ground onto another issue in the hope that this will cause an additional smoke screen for subject in a previous thread.

Now some may think that English’s attack is politicks but in reality it is not. Just dumb, but then I have never given English too much grey matter in the best of times. There is no is no political gain to be made in blaming Labour they are not the Govt. and English needs to understand that. He’s acting like he is ‘still’ in Opposition instead of a Minister of the Crown.

As things now stand English has given Labour ammunition to fire back at the Nats. English by criticizing Labour for the buy back has expressed a lack of confidence in the rail system. It is never going to be a money maker and rail never will. Labour can point the finger at the Nats and stand back and accuse the Nats of running down Kiwi Rail. English is now on the defensive where previously he was not.

There’s no smoking gun here Bill just the smoke from your own backfire.



Skyryder

[PirateJafa]

I never fly Air NZ. Knowing how dysfunctional and incompetent their business is on the ground, it scares me to think how they keep their planes in the sky.

If you recall a little woopsie in the Mediterranean only a few months back, you'd realise that they don't actually keep their planes in the air.

[MSTRS:Me]

If you recall a little woopsie in the Mediterranean only a few months back, you'd realise that they don't actually keep their planes in the air.

Eh wrong! Plane being checked out by (non-flying) AirNZ pilot prior to leased plane being accepted back. Germans had the plane and possibly didn't maintain properly.

[Swoop]

Aint that the truth!
And no, we don't want a return to the old 'protectionist' policies. I doubt that anyone wants to see Rail like it was until the mid-80s. Lange and Douglas began the swing to User Pays...which is how it should be...so why is the public still being screwed?

Ahh. The good old days when you could send anything by rail and GUARANTEE it would be crushed beyond recognition while "in transit"!

[marty]

And many of them for $$$.
I'm just saying that I can't see why having a national airline is necessary.

so jet* and whoever else, with questionable engineering and pilot contracts, would be more than happy to come in and out of Napier 10 times a day?

[marty]

Its OK - they outsource the important stuff.

Old news mate. All heavy maintennance on the whole international and domestic fleet is done in NZ. All domestic maintennance done in NZ. The only heavy stuff done offshore is the Trent engines, and that's because Rolls Royce have the contracts tied up (even though the RB211's are done in Auckland).

Unlike QF......Oh that's right - AIRNZ does their planes too.

[Winston001]

Would've been nice though if whoever is in charge could've insisted they built the locomotives in the Hutt workshops instead of in China, as mentioned in the article.

Agreed. However the Railway Union say Hillside are already busy and not geared up yet to build the locomotives from scratch. They can do it, just not as fast as China. They may build future locomotives and will be building rolling stock.

Treasury had been talks with Toll NZ over rail access agreements and track upgrade work. If the overseas owners on the tracks had have kept our rail system in proper repair there would have been no need for Labour to have repurchased the track network in the first place.....

Now some may think that English’s attack is politics but in reality it is not. Just dumb, but then I have never given English too much grey matter in the best of times.

I enjoy your debates Skyryder even while disagreeing. Keep it coming. I will say that Bill English is the equal of Michael Cullen in the intelligence stakes - I have great respect for both men's abilities. Michael Cullen however is the better politician.

English by criticizing Labour for the buy back has expressed a lack of confidence in the rail system. It is never going to be a money maker and rail never will. Labour can point the finger at the Nats and stand back and accuse the Nats of running down Kiwi Rail.

Hmmm.... you see this is a common belief and yet Toll holdings made money out of rail before they ever invested in NZ. It is possible - but perhaps not here where we have Cook Strait cutting the country in half. It's an expensive bottleneck.

I don't think any voter will blame National for the state of KiwiRail. All they will see is that the taxpayer is subsidising a lumbering business which few people even use these days.

[MSTRS:Me]

so jet* and whoever else, with questionable engineering and pilot contracts, would be more than happy to come in and out of Napier 10 times a day?

If there is a need...why not? But Napier airstrip (sic) is apparently too short for commercial jets, the councils who own 50% cannot convince government with the other 50%, to extend the runway any time soon. So AirNZ with it's prop planes has the place tied up (barring the odd private Lear). Currently, I'd doubt there is ever a flight in or out that would be more than half full...the number of scheduled flights is a service that must lose money despite the filthy fares from here.

[Skyryder]

I don't think any voter will blame National for the state of KiwiRail. All they will see is that the taxpayer is subsidising a lumbering business which few people even use these days.

No they probably will not. But English's criticism of the 'buyback' now give Labour ammunition to fire back at the Nats. They never had that before. It basicly puts English on the defensive and he has only himself to blame. His comments on both ACC and Kiwi Rail were ill considered and he seems unaware of possible responses from Labour or for that matter anyone else.

Politics is both a game and an end result. The House in question time and media statements are games................. of point scoring. It's all about making the other guy look bad and yourself look good. No more and no less.
That is the nature of system that we call democracy.

The end result is the enactment of statute and by far the most seriouse of political pursuits.

Skyryder

[SPman]

Just as a counter to the true blue granny Harold...

"Last month, we saw National mounting a systematic attempt to blame the previous government for the budget cuts it intends to make, by accusing them of failing to allocate funds for its promises. The accusation was thoroughly refuted by David Cunliffe - the short version is that that's what the Budget outyear contingency is for - but now National is trying to run the same scam with Kiwirail, claiming that Labour had made promises totalling $3 billion, but allocated only $120 million. There are two points to be made here: firstly, that that $3 billion (which dishonestly includes not just Kiwirail's $1 billion to remedy previous private owners running down of the network, but also the cost of regional council funded upgrades to the Auckland and Wellington suburban networks) will be spread over a number of years, while the $120 million (actually $200 million; English seems to be ignoring Labour's initial $80 million investment to make his figures look that little bit better) was only a first installment. Secondly, the timing of the purchase in July 2008 meant that any long-term capital investment program could not be appropriated until Budget 2009. So as with National's previous claims, rather than being a case of unfunded promises, this is simply a normal part of the budget cycle.
But National's wild accusations are a smokescreen for what's really going on here: the running down of a public asset. Back in July 2008 Labour announced that it would invest $121 million in buying new locomtives and carriages for the transscenic service. National froze that funding the moment it entered office. Now it has cynically reannounced it while labelling it a "stimulus" measure (despite there being no new money involved). Except now, Kiwirail will actually get only $40 million; the other $75 million it will have to borrow. So National's "stimulus" actually consists of a funding cut, and the loading of a public asset with debt. Yeah, that'll get the economy moving..."

- Idiot/Savant

[Tank]

Just as a counter to the true blue granny Harold...
- Idiot Savant

Sorry - you're quoting Idiot Savant - this is the guy who says that repealing the Electoral Finance Act is "a disaster for our democracy"

You gotta find a better commentator than that.




http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2009...-repealed.html

[Mully]

Hmmm.... you see this is a common belief and yet Toll holdings made money out of rail before they ever invested in NZ. It is possible - but perhaps not here where we have Cook Strait cutting the country in half. It's an expensive bottleneck.

Toll made an enourmous amount of money off rail in NZ. When they sold it.