Crash test dummy: Draggin' Jeans get thumbs down

[slofox]

Still prefer the cow suit meself....always worked for me...

[jrandom]

Still prefer the cow suit meself...

I hope you never go out without a back protector underneath it.

[CookMySock]

Draggins are better than armoured Cordura. DAMHIK.

I came off in my amoured cordura, and didn't even mark them, or myself. I landed on the grass though, slid for maybe 20 meters.

I hope you found that truckie. I had the same thing done to me.. He did move over a wee bit, but took a full meter and a half of my side of the road.. the bastard just looked right at me and kept going. Asshole. I still had enough road, but not amused.

Steve

[slowpoke]

This wasn't meant as a bitch about truckies or "woe is me" but just as information for people making decisions about bike gear.

We've all seen the pic or video of the dude being towed on his arse behind another bike whilst wearing Draggin's. That's cool, on fairly cushioned parts of your body they probably work fine. But on area's with high point loadings (high force/sq. inch) like a knee or boney hip they simply don't hold up.

I don't care what anyone else wears, or what abbreviations/acronyms they use, I just thought it might be helpful for people to know how they stood up to a low speed spill. Do with the info what you will.

[Horse]

The ATGATT police seems to be 99% comprised of fearful n00bs who may have fallen off once or twice, but still don't quite know why.

Because nothing says "Kiwibiker" like a sweeping generalisation.... especially if you can sneak a generic putdown in for a twofer.

[Hitcher]

We've all seen the pic or video of the dude being towed on his arse behind another bike whilst wearing Draggin's. That's cool, on fairly cushioned parts of your body they probably work fine. But on area's with high point loadings (high force/sq. inch) like a knee or boney hip they simply don't hold up.

Based on exhaustive market research involving one person and one off, you may well be right. But armour too is overrated. It does not make the ground any less hard or the impact any less sudden. At best, armour may dissipate some impact forces, but it is unlike to stop bones being broken.

The more protection bikers wear, the greater the risk that they will place more importance on the durability/effectiveness of these garments than they do in their own riding ability. Exactly the same comments can be made about flouro vests and other nonsense. Riding naked without a helmet is probably the safest thing that any biker can do.

[Horse]

The more protection bikers wear, the greater the risk that they will place more importance on the durability/effectiveness of these garments than they do in their own riding ability.

I'm sorry, but isn't this "boring KB contrarian myth #1"? I mean, I see it raised lots of times as a matter worthy of urgent consideration (please, won't somebody think of the children?!), but do you have any evidence to suggest that this actually happens? Or is it just "based on exhaustive market research involving one person"?

[Hitcher]

I'm sorry, but isn't this "boring KB contrarian myth #1"? I mean, I see it raised lots of times as a matter worthy of urgent consideration (please, won't somebody think of the children?!), but do you have any evidence to suggest that this actually happens? Or is it just "based on exhaustive market research involving one person"?

It is an hypothesis that could easily be tested, as opposed to the alternative proposition on offer. Some years ago I read an article in a British motorcycle magazine that compared lap times recorded by motorcyclists wearing incrementally less protection. I am sorry that I cannot recall the name of that publication.

[Horse]

It is an hypothesis that could easily be tested

I'm sure it could be, it just seems to me that such experimental testing should actually be carried out before claiming such a thing to be so. I also suspect the motivations of racers on a track are not precisely correlated with the rest of us normal riders out on the road.

[Disco Dan]

I'd be curious to know how OLD your draggin jeans were at time of your bin. Also, have you ever left them hanging to dry in the sun???

Both of those factors would reduce the effectiveness of the Kevlar as well as the denim.

Had my fair share of bins in draggin jeans - held up very well. They still get my vote.

[vifferman]

Based on exhaustive market research involving one person and one off, you may well be right. But armour too is overrated. It does not make the ground any less hard or the impact any less sudden. At best, armour may dissipate some impact forces, but it is unlike to stop bones being broken.

The more protection bikers wear, the greater the risk that they will place more importance on the durability/effectiveness of these garments than they do in their own riding ability. Exactly the same comments can be made about flouro vests and other nonsense. Riding naked without a helmet is probably the safest thing that any biker can do.

Awwriiiiighty then.
I've conducted my own research into binning, using my own ungoodly self as a crash-test dummy.
I've crashed in a wide variety of garmenture, into a moderate variety of obstacles, and had a small variety of injuries. I won't talk about crashes on the dirt/grass/mud/sand, because they didn't really count, and I don't remember details. My sole surviving injury from the latter wasn't from a crash, but from a piece of partially-buried barbed wire trying to wrest me from my bike. A small scar on one ankle and a long since buried torn and blood-sodden sock were the results.
Crash 1:
Garments: Jeans, gloves, open-faced helmet, some kind of non-protective overgarment (oilskin raincoat or somesuch).
Obstacle: Mini - clipped with handlebar @ ~30 km/h.
Result: Fell down on road.
Injuries: None worth mentioning.

Crash 2:
Garments: School uniform (shorts, jersey, shoes, etc.) No gloves, open-faced helmet.
Obstacle: Direct hit on a bicyclist at ~ 55km/h.
Result: Several metre slide on road.
Injuries: Minor contusions on legs.

Crash 3:
Garments: Jeans, jandals, open-faced helmet, leather jacket.
Obstacle: Vauxhall Viva, hit square amidships at ~65km/h.
Result: 4.5 for a somersault over car, 7.6 on the dismount.
Injuries: Nine stitches in right knee, cuts'n'contusions on feet'n'ankles.

Crash 4:
Garments: Leather pants (no armour), Teknic jacket (fully armoured), Spidi gloves, leather bike boots, AGV fullface.
Obstacle: Road. Plus squashed can.
Result: Lowside at ~40 km/h.
Injuries: Bruised shoulder.

Crash 5:
Garments: Business slacks (and socks!), Teknic jacket (fully armoured), Spidi gloves, leather bike boots, AGV fullface.
Obstacle: Pedestrian
Result: Taken out ~40 km/h.
Injuries: Very slightly grazed knee(s). Pedestrian had leg busted in two (2!) places. Should've been wearing armour. ~$3k damage to bike.

Crash 6:
Garments: Business slacks (and socks!), Teknic jacket (fully armoured), Spidi gloves, leather bike boots, AGV fullface.
Obstacle: Car.
Result: Newly repaired and painted bike dropped onto road at ~25km/h.
Injuries: Slight whiplash from the sideways dismount. Bike unhappy.

Crash 7:
Garments: Leather pants with Knox knee armour, Teknic jacket (fully armoured), Spidi gloves, StylMartin leather bike boots, AGV fullface.
Obstacle: Car. U-turning without looking.
Result: Collision at ~50 - 60km/h
Injuries: Farkt leg - badly bruised / swollen, knee numb, possibly cracked heel, slightly sore back. Bike written off ($6800 damage).

Crash 8:
Garments: Leather pants with Knox knee armour, Teknic jacket (fully armoured), Spidi gloves, leather bike boots, AGV fullface.
Obstacle: Road.
Result: Sideways faceplant/unexpected dismount at ~10 km/h
Injuries: Slight concussion for 3 days. Minor bike damage. Huge hit to pride.

Crashes 9 and 10:
Garments: Cordura pants with Knox knee and hip armour, Teknic jacket (fully armoured), Spidi gloves, leather bike boots, AGV fullface.
Obstacle: Footpath / Road.
Result: Faceplant/ unplanned dismount at ~5 km/h (in both cases)
Injuries:Pride. Scratches, cracks to bike.


So what does all this bollocks tell you?

Fucknothing.
There's an awful lot of variability in the ways you can crash, what surface you're on, what you hit, how you land, what speed you're doing, whether you roll / slide / tumble. etc. I'd rather hit something hard with a reasonable amount of armoured gear on, than just street clothes. I'd rather be wearing good well-fitting leather in a slide, than anything else.
I'd rather be wearing a well-fittting, well padded, good brand of helmet than one that gives me concussion in a minor knock.
I'd rather not lose or damage any fingers, given I make my living from them.
I'd rather not lose mobility of any limbs if I can help it.
I still feel the effects of Crash 7 now, nearly 6 years afterwards. If I hadn't had a back protector in my jacket, Knox armour in my pants, and good boots on, it could've been much worserer. Fuck that...

[Hitcher]

I also suspect the motivations of racers on a track are not precisely correlated with the rest of us normal riders out on the road.

Indeed, but I suggest it as a means of removing a huge number of potentially randomising factors.

[Jantar]

.... But armour too is overrated. It does not make the ground any less hard or the impact any less sudden. At best, armour may dissipate some impact forces, but it is unlike to stop bones being broken......

After my incident in Australia, the Doctor at Mt Isa hospital who interpreted the scans commented that the muscles had torn exactly where the armour in my jacket was. His comment was that he has seen this before where the armour saves the bones from being broken but grabs and rips the muscle. Bones are much easier to repair than torn tendon.

I have now removed all hard armour from all my gear, and only use soft armour in my kevlar jeans, and sacrificial padding in my leathers.

[vifferman]

After my incident in Australia, the Doctor at Mt Isa hospital who interpreted the scans commented that the muscles had torn exactly where the armour in my jacket was.

What sort or armour was it? My gear has different sorts of armour: the Teknic jacket (now 8-9 years old) has plastic armour with soft padding inside, and also padded kevlar armour on the outside of the shoulders, forearms and elbones.
My Macna jacket has completely different armour - sort of rubbery stuff. My Spidi pants have articulated (biomechanical) plastic armour in the knees, and a dense foam sort of armour in the hips. My gloves and boots have a few padded bits, but mostly carbon fibre panels for protection.

[Bend-it]

We've all seen the pic or video of the dude being towed on his arse behind another bike whilst wearing Draggin's. That's cool, on fairly cushioned parts of your body they probably work fine. But on area's with high point loadings (high force/sq. inch) like a knee or boney hip they simply don't hold up.

So what you're saying is... Draggins are good for fat people, but not for skinny people??

Crash 1:
...


Crash 2:
....

Crash 3:
...
.
..
....
..
..

Crashes 9 and 10:

So what does all this bollocks tell you?

That maybe you should think about taking a taxi, mate!