URGENT Advice req re smoking at work.

[Indiana_Jones]

Smoking is bad mmmmkay

-Indy

[cowboyz]

Technically your employer cannot change your workplace code of conduct and enforce new rules without it being negotiated with you or your employer representative.

technically? Is that technically or legally? Surely there must be some black and white answer to if an employer can do this or not.
In reality most employers do what they want and the "if you don't like it well you know what you can do" attitude prevails. No easy answer with this one, you really have to make the call as to whether you want to push it.

.

push it where? What are my legal responsibilities? Have I got any or am I surposed to just go " Oh well, no more smoking then, carry on"

[HenryDorsetCase]

push it where? What are my legal responsibilities? Have I got any or am I surposed to just go " Oh well, no more smoking then, carry on"

Hey it turns out I am retarded.

if in doubt, check the definitions: Your workplace does not qualify as a place to which the SEAct applies:

workplace, in relation to an employer,—

*

(a) means an area that is—
o

(i) an internal area, within or on a building or structure occupied by the employer, usually frequented by employees or volunteers during the course of their employment; or
o

(ii) an internal area, within or on a ship (being a ship to which section 10 applies), an aircraft, or a train, owned, leased, or otherwise operated by the employer, usually frequented by employees or volunteers during the course of their employment; and

*

(b) includes a cafeteria, corridor, lift, lobby, stairwell, toilet, washroom, or other common internal area attached to, forming part of, or used in conjunction with a work place within the meaning of paragraph (a); and

*

(c) includes an internal area within or on a vehicle that—
o

(i) is not an aircraft, a ship, or a train; but
o

(ii) is provided by the employer and normally used by employees or volunteers; and

*

(d) includes an operating taxi; but

*

(e) does not include—
o

(i) a motel, or a bedroom or suite in a hotel; or
o

(ii) a cabin or suite, for the time being assigned to a passenger or passengers, on a ship; or
o

(iii) a sleeping compartment, for the time being assigned to a passenger or passengers, on a train; or
o

(iv) a cabin, for the time being assigned to only one employee or volunteer, or to the master or owner, on a ship; or
o

(v) a sleeping compartment, for the time being assigned to only one employee or volunteer, on a train; or
o

(vi) a prison cell; or
o

(vii) a dwellinghouse occupied by the employer.

so we're in the realm of employment Lor.

so that point about unilateral changes to contract would seem to apply. Sorry to put you crook!

[tri boy]

They also warn that I may be dismissed under misconduct under employment relations if I do smoke because I have been told that I am not allowed to but are not sure how that all works.

Sounds to me like gutless mangament tactics are being set to work here.
Sneak behind a tree for a quick durry. They need to give you a few warnings IF they catch you.

[gatch]

If this is a silly kind of punishment because of past indiscretions, then tell them to eat a dick.

Then again, if like most people who I know that smoke on the job OUTSIDE OF YOUR BREAK TIMES, then you probably take 5-10 minutes to fuck around with your cancer stick, NOT being productive. If this is the case, boo fuckin hoo.

[twotyred]

sounds illegal to me,judging by your comments about other issues, it seems like they are trying to drive you to leave or give them reason to dismiss you... might be time to look for a better employer.

[cowboyz]

Hey it turns out I am retarded.

if in doubt, check the definitions: Your workplace does not qualify as a place to which the SEAct applies:



so we're in the realm of employment Lor.

so that point about unilateral changes to contract would seem to apply. Sorry to put you crook!

It doesnt seem right. If the AREA was deemed to be smokefree then I would have to grin and bear it. But just making EMPOLYEES smokefree seems a breach of human rights? Even if it was dont with notice then it would still be a breach in my mind.

I am NOT looking for someone to agree with me. I am looking for someone who knows about this stuff to tell me striaght how it is or isnt.

How about this for an example.

If you have a company and decide the carpark is smokefree and make your employees go to the roadside to smoke and then a customer came in and stood in the carpark smoking, is that customer breahing company policy or not?

[Mom]

They also warn that I may be dismissed under misconduct under employment relations if I do smoke because I have been told that I am not allowed to but are not sure how that all works.

What does your employment contract state is considered misconduct? I have not seen an employment contract that lays out the whys and wherefores of smoking on the job, most say that the smokefree workplace act is enforced. This is employment problem not smokefree one IMHO. You hopefully will have signed a contract that lays out some detail of what is expected. Have a look at your company rules to see what is what re somking at work. I am reading this as a bigger picture issue. Fr what ever reason they are clamping down and tightening your workplace rules. Fair practice dictates this should be done with consultation with the employee. Remember those words "fair practise". As a smoker I sympathise with your dillema mate, but really, I would not be taking them on over it. Smoking on breaks only is fair, and the practised norm.

I have zero sympathy for you. I do not approve of smoking, would not employ a smoker, and would not as an employer tolerate paid "ten minutes every hour" addict breaks.

Interesting attitude right there. I, as an employer would not approve a paid 10 min an hour smoke break either, but I sure as shit would not dismiss a smoker as a potential employee either. Heard of discrimination have you?

[cowboyz]

sounds illegal to me,judging by your comments about other issues, it seems like they are trying to drive you to leave or give them reason to dismiss you... might be time to look for a better employer.

I am doing that. it is not a quick process these days though. Not in a position to quit without income.

[Mom]

If you have a company and decide the carpark is smokefree and make your employees go to the roadside to smoke and then a customer came in and stood in the carpark smoking, is that customer breahing company policy or not?

Yes that customer certainly is. There will be notices about the place stating it is a smokefree area, hopefully most smokers will read and abide by the rule. Unfortunately, the customer can not be cesured or indeed sacked for doing it, the employee most certainly can.

[rainman]

Technically your employer cannot change your workplace code of conduct and enforce new rules without it being negotiated with you or your employer representative.

Not so sure about this one. For one thing most employment contracts have a generic clause about "company policy" or the like and as long as it's reasonable they can get away with most, well, reasonable things. Whether banning smoking is reasonable or not? I dunno, depends on how much Cowboyz wants to pay a lawyer to find out, I guess.

For another thing neither "company policy" or "code of conduct" appears in the ERA.

The closest I can find is the Human Rights Act S21 "Prohibited grounds of discrimination"

For the purposes of this Act, the prohibited grounds of discrimination are—
...
(h) Disability, which means—
(i) Physical disability or impairment:
(ii) Physical illness:
(iii) Psychiatric illness:

But then I'm not sure anyone wants to try on defining smoking as a Psychiatric illness...

Sorry, son, my vote is "Get some Nicorette, or find a new job".

[cowboyz]

What does your employment contract state is considered misconduct? I have not seen an employment contract that lays out the whys and wherefores of smoking on the job, most say that the smokefree workplace act is enforced. This is employment problem not smokefree one IMHO. You hopefully will have signed a contract that lays out some detail of what is expected. Have a look at your company rules to see what is what re somking at work. I am reading this as a bigger picture issue. Fr what ever reason they are clamping down and tightening your workplace rules. Fair practice dictates this should be done with consultation with the employee. Remember those words "fair practise". As a smoker I sympathise with your dillema mate, but really, I would not be taking them on over it. Smoking on breaks only is fair, and the practised norm.

I can, and have in the past, smoke and continue to drive a mower.

Empolyment contract says nothing about misconduct.

smokefree act does not apply here. because it is a public place they cant make the course smokefree.

they already have got away with an assault with a weapon and although witnessed by the general manager they have found the acused innocent with no action taken. This smokefree policy is a relatitation (sp?) from my laying police charges against a friend of the boss

[Mom]

I can, and have in the past, smoke and continue to drive a mower.

Empolyment contract says nothing about misconduct.

smokefree act does not apply here. because it is a public place they cant make the course smokefree.

they already have got away with an assault with a weapon and although witnessed by the general manager they have found the acused innocent with no action taken. This smokefree policy is a relatitation (sp?) from my laying police charges against a friend of the boss

Like I said "I am reading this as a bigger picture issue" and yep it is. You are essentially employed by a committee? Personalities will be rife and in my experience, no good outcomes are achieved in these situations. Think I will take this off forum for a bit

[MSTRS:Me]

Paranoia means you 'think they are out to get you'. Whether they are or not.

They may not be strictly in the right with this change, but if you can't afford to test it, then you're fucked, as others have said.

[cowboyz]

Paranoia means you 'think they are out to get you'. Whether they are or not.

They may not be strictly in the right with this change, but if you can't afford to test it, then you're fucked, as others have said.

yep. thats the bit that sucks.