Road racing future; Superbike/600 Privateers.......and Production Naked bike Class.

[Robert Taylor]

Hi Red, Ed here..first of all thank you for your post.
I havent met you ..probably have seen you though somewhere during the nationals... so hopefully meet again soon!
As far as the bike.. took it out the first time last week at puke... a lot more grunt than my old bike ever had.. far better handling even though the suspension felt a little off.. (just turn one at puke) so much so the rear started delaminating.. could be a number of things i guess, suspension, tyre pressures etc.. will try again this saturday, with another set of tyres and do some testing.. Thank you for your notes attached to the bike.. (i did ask some people around the traps.. and Tom at suzuki if you were a reputable person... and all came back with glowing positive responses) dont mind me.. it was only because i hadnt met you.and really dont know much about you. and im a sceptic at the best of times and sorry for being such a dimwit... but your skills go far beyong what i had realized.. again.. im a dimwit!!

anyways.. im hoping we can establish some relationship, that works well for both of us.

Sloan and i will both be doing the winter series,, and then nationals this year we want to do this bigger and better than anyone has ever before.. so lets hope it all comes to fruition

i really like the idea of the privateer class and think it has a lot of merit..

hope to meet you soon Red..

Cheers

Ed

Eddie, we supplied and set the suspension for Robbie and Andrew, It sounds like its a little undersprung for you as Robbie is a little bit smaller and lighter than you. If it needs a firmer spring we will happily swap it for you during the winter series on reciept of a good coffee.
Red is soon to be our South Island Ohlins road race agent and will do a great job.

[JJ58]

A great idea, however a point to ponder: We have a good production class now, why not support that rather than create more dilution amoung classes and talent?

I raced in Canada last year with ex factory SB and Pro (my true definition)600 riders on SV650's....Why not encourage more talent into the proddy class we have? If it works well then start another proddy class up, like the KTM or R1 class in the UK or what you're mentioning.

Imagine what it would do for the growing talent if they were lining up on the grid with riders like Charlett, McEwen, Rees, Hepurn, Tall, Love, Anderson, Shiriffs (Kris), Smart, Bridge, Bernard, Cole, Bowell etc It made me focus more and improve strategy and race craft to a point that when I got a ride on a factory prepped GSXR1000 I didn't embarrase myself.

There's no advantage in racing a naked +675cc bike over a pro twin bike from a rider development perspective.

Actually another point: This forum is just full of users who treat opinion as fact, you're a very smart guy Red, so you do what you feel would work and I'm sure it'll work. What ever gets more bums on seats is what I'll support, I just ask that you don't over look pro Twins with haste.

[KS34]

on reciept of a good coffee.

Now I could help here Robert! Give Ed the springs and I'll give you the coffee! By the way how many flat whites would it take me to get some RT massaged suspension

[Maido]

I am in the 600 class, and in regards to the privateer class inside the current 600 class, I think it would be great. I have often said that something else inside the championship would be good to give us mid packers something to chase. Especially cos most of us can't have factory backing.
Were your thought about the privateer to have the bikes that same spec as the factory bikes? I believe that they should be, so we can chase that carrot as well.
I personally think that you have done a whole lot of good for our sport here in NZ, the JB memorial event was awesome, pity it didn't take off! Also, by you bringing Robbie over, your team has certainly lifted the level, which I think all racers will agree is a great thing. Your team looks and acts professional and gives everyone something to benchmark. Full credit.
Hopefully you can get this type of thing off the ground, I know I will back it 100%.

Jeremy

[Wingnut]

Imagine what it would do for the growing talent if they were lining up on the grid with riders like Charlett, McEwen, Rees, Hepurn, Tall, Love, Anderson, Shiriffs (Kris), Smart, Bridge, Bernard, Cole, Bowell etc

They would be wouldn't they?

Is he not suggesting that the privateers are run in the same class as the big boys? A championship within an existing Championship?

I have heard this suggested before. I recall Brads ranting on about something similar.

As you say - Anything that gets the grid filled up has to be good. I hope that something actually happens soon - as the last Nats was slightly light on the grid in certain classes.

I will buy a 600 and have a go if there is a privateer class to run in.

[DEATH_INC.]

How about Gsxr750 with slip on mufflers(maybe suspension too!) in the f2 class,there are some 6hundy's that still pull away from my 7friddy on the back straights...

Lol, try it on my old dinosaur.....

I've said before, I like the idea of a naked class, but the rules would need to be carefully thought out so ya don't end up with something like the new Honda predator coming in and dominating the class....mebbe only allow steel frames or something.....dunno, but it would be cool to have a class where you don't NEED a new model to be competitive......( $$$$$$ )
Good idea for the privateer class too, maybe prizes should include free entry in to the next upcoming race, that way you encourage the rider to get to the next meeting.

[Patch]

hi Triple R

mate dont take this the wrong way, but who are you dude lol

All sounds great but can you intro yourself a tad for us please ?

Cheers and awesome post !

Red (as he is more commonly known) aka Mr. P. Fenton another former Wellingtonian

[White trash]

Red, great to see you posting on KB. This site has gradually enticed some of the most knowledgable in NZ Road racing over the past couple of years and can only be richer from your own opinion being added.

Personaly, I think the Privateer championship within the current SP and NZSBK championship is an immediate winner. It costs nothing to implement and will do nothing but entice club racers to try their hands at a full championship.

The Naked Bike Class absolutely rocks. Something I'd be very interested in competeing in myself. The only concern I have is I believe our tiny racing population is already over saturated with vary classes and one more will only dilute what we've already got. What do you think?

That being said, how exactly does one go about instating a new road race class?

[Rob Taylor]

Hey Jimmy you are so right.Too many classes already..Here i go again...There is already a class up in running ,in the south island that doesnt get much track time in the North.BEARS....Just go to the Mothers MC event and see how many riders...Why not try and sort the classes we already have rather than think of another....It cant be all Jap biased you know,Give us non Jap riders a chance......

[HDTboy]

So, let me know your thoughts on all the above please.
Sorry about how long this is. I do have more ideas, thoughts to throw at you all, but best I do it on other posts, otherwise, this may turn into a novel.....!!!

Thanks eveyone.

Cheers,
Red.

WHile having a privateer championship would help. I think the bigger problem facing the sport is getting the public's interest. Once the public are interested in coming to watch motorcycle racing, it will be easier to attract the sorts of sponsors who are willing to spend $200'000 pa on a V8 touring car or speedway sprintcar.

Were your thought about the privateer to have the bikes that same spec as the factory bikes? I believe that they should be, so we can chase that carrot as well.

Perhaps allowing the privateers more in the way of modifications (cams are cheap horsepower) would get them racing closer to the front of the field.

Good idea for the privateer class too, maybe prizes should include free entry in to the next upcoming race, that way you encourage the rider to get to the next meeting.

That's not silly, dangling the carrot

The Naked Bike Class absolutely rocks. Something I'd be very interested in competeing in myself. The only concern I have is I believe our tiny racing population is already over saturated with vary classes and one more will only dilute what we've already got. What do you think?

Naked bikes appeal to a different sort of person to fully faired bikes. Imagine having all the post classic racers on their bandit road bikes. Would be better than watching them on their 200 year old 25cc two strokes.

[sinfull]

Your team is obviously at the top and still your thinking of the sport in generals growth and good on ya ! Kudos to ya !

Can see the naked thing getting ugly real quick unfortunately !
I'd be keen as catshit on it, for the simple fact it gives me a class to enter without spending another 10 to 15 grand (on top of what it owes me now) in purchasing another bike !

The biggest thing which everyone is agreeing on, is getting bums on seats on and off the track ! Which IMO needs close, exciting racing for both riders and spectators to make happen and not just at the top in SB !
Sure The Nats this year had some exciting racing going on in all the classes but with the top 3 or 4 out of How many ? How to get them numbers up ?

Ya see so many riders at trackdays that could move up to fill that feild but don't, why ?
Insurance has to factor into it sure, but why would them guys and gals on them thous bother !
Only difference is the start grid, they can race around at trackdays and get some close racing going on and still be insured !
What would get joe blogs who's at the top of his track day game to move into competition ?
Not the fact that he's going to run at the back of the field, because he still lacks a little race craft thats for sure !

He would move up because his mates have ! The guys that he's been chasing, passing, slapping each other on the back, laughing with at trackdays !

The privateers idea would deffinately get a few more into it through and thats a start !

Me i'm at the bottom (no anal jokes) of the race sceen at clubmans level, but do ok at trackdays ! I've forgone the insurance thing, because i've tasted a grid start or three and the adrenylin that comes with it !
All i want, is to race against guys in my league, i don't care what they're riding, a thou, a 600, a bears, motard or a posties !

Ya see a hell of a lot of trackdayers enter racing at clubmans level but as soon as they reach the cut off point they dissapear right ?
Why ?
Possibly a number of things but here's a couple !
A/ bike don't cut it in the classes (2 out of the top 5 in sundays clubmans race are bears ! Sure they fit into F1 but would be getting lapped in a long race and that does/can have an effect on top placings if 3 or 4 bikes are tight at the front ! Even dangerous perhaps !
B/ Trackday times (step 1) clubmans (step 2) F1,2,3 (step 3 ?)
Is there a step missing in the race game, that would let guys progress to times that would make them competitive in the classes ?
We all know that it's time on the track that makes you competitive !
We all know that you cant cater for all the classes on race day, there's just not enough time !

Has anyone floated the idea of a bracket race series, like they do at SOT ?
Could be a great feeder for all the classes.
It would open the door to racing for anybody, no matter what bike they ride and natural progression would happen, where guys/gals who have a bike that was competitive in the classes (or upgrade to progress) would say fuck my times are getting good enough to have a go at the nats !

How many riders who do SOT, scream that there aint enough bears racing in the north or south for that matter !
There's a few bums ! And thier mates are usually bums too (who just happen to like motorcycles and would prolly come and watch a bracket race where their mate has a show of beating the jappas he's bracketed with)

I'm rambling now !
Happy easter !
Where's my eggs bitch !

[Tony.OK]

B/ Trackday times (step 1) clubmans (step 2) F1,2,3 (step 3 ?)
Is there a step missing in the race game, that would let guys progress to times that would make them competitive in the classes ?

Step 3 is as simple as "money and time and importantly the drive to be better" the way I see it Bill.
Doesn't matter which class, you've proved that yourself with the hours you spent on track, it paid off too.
Its one thing that no matter how you rearrange classes or change rules will always be the same in motor racing.
To practise costs money, to improve takes practise, then you reach the limits on your machine.................then you either spend more money to improve machine or get left behind....................viscious cycle but a reality.

Sorry I ate all the eggs I brought for ya too

[roogazza]

Has it ever been mentioned on these types of threads, the idea of bringing back prize money ?
I mean that would help wouldn't it ? A sash is nice, but a few bob in the pocket was always welcome.
ps. just an idea. Gaz.

[sinfull]

Step 3 is as simple as "money and time and importantly the drive to be better" the way I see it Bill.
Doesn't matter which class, you've proved that yourself with the hours you spent on track, it paid off too.
Its one thing that no matter how you rearrange classes or change rules will always be the same in motor racing.
To practise costs money, to improve takes practise, then you reach the limits on your machine.................then you either spend more money to improve machine or get left behind....................viscious cycle but a reality.

Sorry I ate all the eggs I brought for ya too

Yeah was fun !
So unless i can come up with 20 k ya wont see me racing at the nats !
Hell mate unless i can come up with a good trade for me old trumpy ya prolly see me go back to just doin trackdays ! Shame that !
What red was floating with the naked thing is to find a way to get more bums into racing !
Like Rob said the numbers that show up at SOT tells ya something aye
There has to be some way to intergrate the two, without saying i need to buy a $40,000 bears bike to be competitive !
But how do ya get bears racing aginst jappas ? Guys on bandits racing against bears ? Like HTD said there'd be a lot of them out there, a lot !
A power to wieght class ? Or like i said bracket racing ? Or is there no way ?

[Tony.OK]

Yeah was fun !
So unless i can come up with 20 k ya wont see me racing at the nats !
Hell mate unless i can come up with a good trade for me old trumpy ya prolly see me go back to just doin trackdays ! Shame that !
What red was floating with the naked thing is to find a way to get more bums into racing !
Like Rob said the numbers that show up at SOT tells ya something aye
There has to be some way to intergrate the two, without saying i need to buy a $40,000 bears bike to be competitive !
But how do ya get bears racing aginst jappas ? Guys on bandits racing against bears ? Like HTD said there'd be a lot of them out there, a lot !
A power to wieght class ? Or like i said bracket racing ? Or is there no way ?

I like you, believe the classes within classes would be a great idea, so easy with electronic timing. It would all be dependant on field sizes though.
RT has said many times before, and he's quite right, that unfortunately NZ is just too small to accomodate everyones needs.
Surely it comes down to 'choice' in the end though, what you want out of the sport? There's nothing at all stopping Bears racing against Jappa's, except people choosing not to, the fact is that Jappa's are cheaper for the same equipment than a comparaitve Bear's bike.
But hey, I can't afford my chosen class either so am in the same boat as you, don't take any of what I said the wrong way either dude.

On a side note..........whats to stop someone from organising seperate meetings for stuff like Bears racing, buckets do well running on their own. Maybe we are at a point where another parallel series is in order?