Parts falling off bikes & noise

[F5 Dave]

Ok time for a bleat after this weekend, whilst trying not to sound like a curmudgeon. This is largely aimed at welly crowd, although the majority of the bikes here are actually quite good.


Yes Bucket racing is supposed to be fun.
Yes it is supposed to be relatively cheap.
Yes you are supposed to try your hand at building it yourself.


But is it unrealistic to expect that people do more than a cursory job of engineering their bikes?

The sport can be dangerous - that we accept (I’m recuperating 10 weeks now from a low speed crash unable to ride).

Racing incidents happen.
But how angry would I or anyone else be if they had an accident caused by someone’s slack preparation?

This weekend & others in recent history we have witnessed Sliders that are supposed to protect the track break off & people crash on them. Tanks come off, mufflers, chains & all sorts of nuts & bolts & the sundry items they held on.

A tank should be held on with a bolt or a split pin & washer. A muffler should be tucked in & supported, esp if it is pretty heavy. Vibration will fracture metal, - exponentially if there is an unsupported length to it.

C’mon guys, turn up to any other venue & you won’t be allowed to race. I’m not making this up. In Chch & several other places they have got their bikes to a high level so it isn’t exactly difficult to make a bike safe from mechanical failure.

Ok noise; gee they sound great [revs engine with clueless grin on face]. But the neighbors don’t agree.

They were enjoying their bbq or quiet rest out in their back yard & fair-a-bleedin-‘nough. Since the 70s Bikes have been losing venues due to noise. We get away with a fair bit at the Slipway due to its location, but don’t be fooled into thinking that that won’t preclude it being shut down. Look at that speedway track in Auckland. Athletic park. Most tracks/venues have had issues with noise.

There is one rule for everyone. Don’t be putting our venue at risk because your muffler fell off & you still want to race. It was your dumbarse mistake. Try repacking your muffler with real muffler packing a couple of times a year (helps performance too). A large can with a pipe with some holes in it & maybe some steel wool hardly counts as a muffler. Yes my 50 isn’t super quiet but it has passed noise tests at several venues. I/we can give pointers on muffler construction.

One of my least favorite parts as a brief stint as an MNZ steward some years back was arguing with an argumentative rider at back cct of Manfield when his muffler fell off. He had all sorts of arguments as to why he should be able to ride despite the damn thing was super noisy. Short sighted & inconsiderate to the extreme as he should have known Manfield have problems with noise complaints. We were putting the other meeting at risk going on the big track as well.

This is supposed to be fun. Don't make it so the organisers feel like it isn't worth putting up with the grief.

A small amount of your effort reduces risk to yourself & more importantly other people + makes it likely we will get the venues again.

Is that too much to ask?

[Number One]

Ok time for a bleat after this weekend

I would second (and remind all) that this is a very small number of the bikes that were present.

ALSO I am aware that organisers and race peers are trying to work with these people to remedy the issues.

Perhaps as you were there and walking around viewing all this....some of these comments could have been shared with the individuals you are referring to instead of being published for all in sundry to read thus casting Welly buckets as a whole in a poor light....your input is after all valued as a long term bucketeer and you well know that the majority of Welly racers take this stuff DAMN seriously!

[Skunk]

Is that too much to ask?

No it's not. And as I was doing the scrutineering I have a fair bit to answer for.

Kaitoke is close to houses (even though you can't see them) and is in a public park area. We must do better on the noise.

And any bikes the fall apart on the track... well, really... are you that keen to hurt yourself and others?

[F5 Dave]

Yes I did consider that it does make us look a little sloppy which is why in the 2nd sentence I said that most bikes are largely good.

But I felt it is better to open the discussion up so that newcomers do think about things and maybe catch problems before they have repercussions at the track. If these people have a & call me a jerk then so be it. Chris & others have tried to promote some stds, but no one wants to be the one saying "No you can't ride" & that puts out sport at risk.

The thing is people will help if individuals are having problems & ask.

[Number One]

Yes I did consider that it does make us look a little sloppy which is why in the 2nd sentence I said that most bikes are largely good.

Chris & others have tried to promote some stds, but no one wants to be the one saying "No you can't ride" & that puts out sport at risk.

The thing is people will help if individuals are having problems & ask.

On one level I agree with you as for calling you a jerk I don't buy into that either.

Being well known for my 'bitch who speaks her mind' tendancy AND given the fact I believe strongly in the safety of me and my friends I would be more than happy to take any flack related to telling someone that they can't race because their bike is not up to standard. Just point me at them and give me that hat to wear - I am so there. You know I love to HULK out!!

BTW - I also know those people have been spoken to and offered advice on what they need to do to fix the issues. I would see that as their 'warning' and if they can't get bike up to scratch at the next meeting then they need not bother coming along...simple! I'm guessing not everything is obvious until ridden or dropped...but then I might be wrong there.

THAT LAST COMMENT OF YOURS! ON THE BUTTON! AND those that are being told to sort their machines need to heed the advice and not take a she'll be right attitude.

[nudemetalz]

As said, your input is valued, Dave.

What I don't like from the people that have these bikes below par is being told largely to sod off when approached about these issues with their bikes.

As Skunk does the scrutineering and I am basically running the meeting these days, if the bikes don't meet the required standard, then we will not let them run.
We can easily lose running at Kaitoke (or even Slipway) due to excessive noise or track damage.
If that happens, then all of my hard work goes down the gurgler as well as some peeved off bucketers.
Start running if that happens

[Kendog]

I agree with your concerns Dave.

I would like to say Wellington buckets have come a long way since last year as far as build quality and safety goes.
As a new bucketer last year almost anything was acceptable at the Slipway. This year with the addition of Kaitoke as a race venue the bike standards have lifted considerably.

That said, there is still room for improvement. I just hope everyone involved in the sport can appreciate the reasons for bike standards when they are told they must fix something before riding on the track.

On the topic of noise, do we have a measurable sound level that we need to abide by? How do we measure this on a race day?

[Skunk]

On the topic of noise, do we have a measurable sound level that we need to abide by? How do we measure this on a race day?

I have access to sound level meters - if we want to go down that path. I'd be happy with a consensus as to what is too loud rather than actual measurements.

[nudemetalz]

I have access to sound level meters - if we want to go down that path. I'd be happy with a consensus as to what is too loud rather than actual measurements.

I'd go with that too. And not just idle noise either.

Sheez, after listening to some of the bikes on the weekend, I think lady P is too quiet in the muffler.....

[riffer]

Can't remember the name of the bloke I spoke to with the NCR framed bike from Auckland but you couldn't even hear his bike idling.

And it had to be one of the nicest prepared buckets I've seen. I've seen worse prepared F2 bikes.

Not having been to the buckets in at least a year it was an eye-opener to me how much better it's gotten. You guys are doing a great job. That this thread exists is testament to that.

Keep up the good work and it'll pay off guys.

[Trudes]

Well I'm pretty sure both my buckets will be ok as far as noise goes, tried listening to Sketchy riding Rangi at one point and couldn't hear anything over the massive noise that was sitting behind him!!

[saxet]

Well I know my bikes not too.. bad for noise but a better, quieter pipe is high on my list...the noise police are on the ball and will get us if we don't do it ourselves first!

[F5 Dave]

Ok well might as well start on muffler design here;

Bikes with big bore or high revving are usually harder to silence.

Four strokes are often the most noisy bikes out there, there are a few with very little silencing. I think these days a trade me 4 stroke MX muffler is probably a pretty easy option. Either way repacking it with store bought packing helps.

With a 2 stroke it can be hard to package the muffler in a safe place. On some bikes it is easy enough to place it under the swingarm. On some a stinger sweeping to a high mounting muffer is best (have a look at pics of old RS125s).

The perforated tube can be bought from a muffler place. The outer tube should be riveted on with more than 4 rivets so it doesn’t suffer from vibration internally. Ally is a good outer material, steel ‘rings’, carbon is ok.

Pack the muffler moderately tight with decent packing (Daytona brand or Silent Wool seems measurably better than pink batts stolen from the roof of the rental).

This blows out/gets crusty & should be replaced a couple of times a year depending on use. GP teams will repack mufflers every couple of meetings to meet restrictions & not to lose power. An empty muffler will cause more turbulence than a nicely packed one. Especially important if your muffler forms part of your stinger section on a 2 stroke.

A reversal section in the muffler usually at the end can cut a few dB from the sound. This can just be an add on end cap with a chamber & two pipes facing away from each other. Made with reasonable size there will be no loss in power from my dyno experiments.

Go see Cycleworks, they can make you a muffler or an end cap.

Attaching: try make a spigot & overpipe tight slip arrangement for the manifold & spring mount. Depending on size & weight you may need to attach twice; near the centre & the muffler with a strap. Ideally these are rubber mounted.

Attaching the muffler to a 2 stroke stinger; The tube gets very thin here & this is where it will break. The transition should be braced top & bottom with folded sheet metal to support, have a look at professionally made pipes on the interweb & you will get several ideas. Straight metal bracing will help but can move the fracture point to the end.

[richban]

I have access to sound level meters - if we want to go down that path. I'd be happy with a consensus as to what is too loud rather than actual measurements.

My bike is really loud. I am going to re-pack the muffler before next meeting. Before we get to carried away don't forget if you stand next to one of those karts in the pits when they do there reving thing it makes your ears bleed.


Do they have a decibel limit?

[Skunk]

Yep. That's the trouble with sound. Deep sounds don't sound loud but carry well. High pitches tend to be annoying without much volume...