Tyrewarmer ban.

[Kevin G]

Had a couple of Suzuki X5's does that count?

So do you think possibly letting Streetstocks run wets and tyrewarmers would be a positive move for the sport? Maybe just for winter racing.

Hi.
Actually they can already use full race wets.

[Str8 Jacket]

Hi.
Actually they can already use full race wets.

AHHH, that's what I was actually thinking about, DUH!! VMCC do not allow the use of wets in Streetstock! But you guy's can!

[GSVR]

No I don't, I was just questioning your experience of racing streetstock.

I learned my basic craft racing 150s but the then very strict rules limited my knowledge. No suspension adjustment, no gearing changes, control tyres and stock everything (not quite like today) meant that after two seasons I felt the need to move on. That's fine it is an entry level class.
Are you inferreing that all classes should be so confined and therefore limit the potential for development both for the rider and machine?

Everyone thats done a trackday on their roadbike should have an appreciation of what streetstocks about. Its a great class. Some move on to 125GP after getting the basics others F3 etc.

Winter racing throws up many challenges to riders. Having looked at the level of preparation for ProTwin riders for example there are only a handful that are fully equiped with everything the rules allow. The most common thing I see is guys that don't have a spare set of rims with wets. So if it rains they are going to be very much off the pace.

If the class was run with nominated control street tyres this would drop the cost of being fully equiped by over $2000 dollars at current market values for rims and wet weather tyres. Can you see what I'm getting at?

The cost of running a streetstock is minimal but when a young rider moves up they have limited options if they want to be competitive within the class they choose. Its not about shafting the the tyre suppliers or suspension people as they will always have a market in the more serious level of competition classes. Its about having more classes that appeal to up and coming riders that wont appeal to more experienced riders that would drop down a class not becuase its cheaper but because its less competitive and easier to win.

[Str8 Jacket]

The cost of running a streetstock is minimal but when a young rider moves up they have limited options if they want to be competitive within the class they choose.

Well, I am not young but I have every intention of moving to pro-twins next year for that reason. I am hoping that the rules are not changed too much to allow me to afford it. I like the thought of riding against a rider not the money. Not that I am dissing those that are that commited to racing, I respect that everyone wants different things from racing!

Oh yeah, just in case you missed it, we cannot use wets at VMCC race days in SS but it causes no huge issues TBH...

[svr]

I respect that everyone wants different things from racing!

Aint that the truth. We should all probably chant that 5 times before posting!

[Str8 Jacket]

Aint that the truth. We should all probably chant that 5 times before posting!

Or just toke...

[cowpoos]

Everyone thats done a trackday on their roadbike should have an appreciation of what streetstocks about.

what...that I can screw a brand new tyre in one session on a bog stock gsxr750??? because all the bike wants to do is wheelspin???

you can't be serious??

Having looked at the level of preparation for ProTwin riders The most common thing I see is guys that don't have a spare set of rims with wets. So if it rains they are going to be very much off the pace.

So just like everyone else in every other class who doesn't have spare rims...we change our tyres.

If the class was run with nominated control street tyres this would drop the cost of being fully equiped by over $2000 dollars at current market values for rims and wet weather tyres. Can you see what I'm getting at?

No I don't get you...not at all...you don't need spare rims?? set of tyre levers = $40

and if you want to run road tyres go for your life...but slicks and supersport tyres cost pretty much the same...and road tyres can't handle track riding..they over heat and just become unpredictable.

A lost `art' that - riders have been dumbed down by tyre warmer and lap timer technology .

I'd rather not rip up a new or good tyre...I would rather people were allowed to spend $600 on a set of tyre warmers that will save a massive cost in tyres over many years.

I put a canyon in the right side [manfield] of a brand new SC2 [hard compound] slick in the first session of the day [supersport qualifying] at a race meeting...because I put the wets on the night before...I changed them over in the morning because the weather cleared off...rear tyre didn't make it on the warmers. which was in all honesty partly my fault..as it was a bit damp...and I did have a bit of a play lighting up the rear out of a few corners because it was fun. but had it been racing...I would have killed it much much faster. and riders are not dumbed down by any stretch of the imagination...look at power to weight ratios change on machines over the years...

and to be frank...has either of you raced a powerful bike??? and no a sv650 is not powerful...its almost a scooter these days!

[svr]

and riders are not dumbed down by any stretch of the imagination...look at power to weight ratios change on machines over the years...

I was (obviously I thought) just being facetious to make a point

[cowpoos]

I was (obviously I thought) just being facetious to make a point

hmmm...fair enough. lol

[svr]

and to be frank...has either of you raced a powerful bike??? and no a sv650 is not powerful...its almost a scooter these days!

And jeez my scooter nearly goes around racetracks as fast as your incredibly powerful bike!

[GSVR]

The way I see the tyre situation is NZ is a top rider or team will come to an arrangement with a supplier to get heavily discounted tyres. The supplier would see this as a good investment as they get good exposure and when others see the brand having success on the track tend to buy that product. This is good for the top riders but the privateer without connections pays full retail so his operational costs for the season is far greater.

Perhaps a smarter/fairer way would be for MNZ to strike a deal with a supplier to sponsor a raceclass and supply every racer in that class with discounted control tyres. EG "The Pirelli ProTwins". This would mean the supplier gets its logo all over the bikes as well as other items like advertising in race programs.

The same could happen with a suspension supplier to offer the same shock or support package to every racer in a class. I can't see this happenning anytime soon as the sport probably needs a bit of restructuring and building up as there is alot of uncertainty and low confidence at the moment.

I'm sure the tyre people have prefernces on what they would want to promote etc so it would be interesting to see what they think of this idea.

For everyones information this is not my idea but I thought it sounded quite reasonable.

and to be frank...has either of you raced a powerful bike??? and no a sv650 is not powerful...its almost a scooter these days!

Powerful bikes with Shinkos!

You were close on the SV650 its not a Scooter its a Commuter. The oracle told me.
But thats a good thing as they are very easy on tyres. Piece of piss to ride even in standard form and can be improved out of sight by spending sweet FA

[GSVR]

And jeez my scooter nearly goes around racetracks as fast as your incredibly powerful bike!

WTF is Poos faster than you?

[Sully60]

If the class was run with nominated control street tyres this would drop the cost of being fully equiped by over $2000 dollars at current market values for rims and wet weather tyres. Can you see what I'm getting at?

So banning tyre warmers helps how?
I get the point of making the whole gig cheaper for those of us who don't earn 100k+ a year but I don't see how banning warmers contributes to this.
They're a one off cost, they apply to more than one class of machine so can be used throughout an entire racing career and they allow a set of tyres (at least on lower horsepower categories as you refer to) to last a lot longer, therefore reducing costs.

What am I missing here?

[GSVR]

So banning tyre warmers helps how?
I get the point of making the whole gig cheaper for those of us who don't earn 100k+ a year but I don't see how banning warmers contributes to this.
They're a one off cost, they apply to more than one class of machine so can be used throughout an entire racing career and they allow a set of tyres (at least on lower horsepower categories as you refer to) to last a lot longer, therefore reducing costs.

What am I missing here?

Yeap go back to Post #1. The thread was started about the banning of Tyrewarmers in F1 MotoGP and WSBK. I've even added some of my own answers as everyone wanted to talk about the current situation in NZ .

Read through and you will see it wasn't me who took the thread onto this path. It was just intended to be a discussion on current trends and how they might effect top level motorcycle racing and when.

[Robert Taylor]

Frosty mid-winter mornings were good too. No qualifying either so the `warmup' lap was a race for pole position which required skill, experience and large stones.
A lost `art' that - riders have been dumbed down by tyre warmer and lap timer technology .

That is complete and utter bollocks. They are going faster beacuse they can go faster straight away.
My point about shockwarmers was also about the shock being up to temperature ( approx 60 degrees celsius ) so that the rear end wasnt lethargic for the first 2, 3 or 4 laps. Thats called thinking about it in a way thats going to make you faster. In a similiar vein front forks run at ambient or even slightly below so we find an oil that has very stable and responsive flow characteristics from 0 degrees celsius upwards. That happens to have been Ohlins oil because they make thousands of snowmobile shocks so are therefore very attentive to low temp flow characteristics. But I would say that because Im biased..
BTW I dont sell shock warmers and I havent found one yet that is as effective as it should be.
In NZ V8s I know of at least one team that pre-refigerates its shocks because the things overheat so readily.
You cannot over-regulate people coming up with inventive solutions