What would you ask MNZ for?

[slowpoke]

http://www.mnz.co.nz/ceo_newsletter_pp_18.aspx

After reading this newletter I don't think I have to ask as they are already onto it.

I don't subsribe to the belief if your not doing around 1.02 around Puke on a 600 your not on the pace shouldn't be there competing at the nationals.

http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=1055735


1 88 Sam Smith 15 15:02.941 59.451 12 172.034
2 G Gareth Jones 15 15:02.955 0.014 59.080 15 173.114
3 1 Dennis Charlett 15 15:05.221 2.280 59.420 6 172.124
4 2 James Smith 15 15:12.251 9.310 1:00.108 5 170.154
5 23 Karl Morgan 15 15:14.095 11.154 1:00.057 13 170.298
6 6 Nick Cole 15 15:15.370 12.429 1:00.184 3 169.939
7 65 Adam Chambers 15 15:24.458 21.517 1:00.474 13 169.124
8 94 Dave Manuell 15 15:24.628 21.687 1:00.979 15 167.723
9 16 Jeremy Holmes 15 15:26.183 23.242 1:00.891 14 167.966
10 28 Brian Wood 15 15:45.832 42.891 1:01.383 6 166.619
11 165 Jamie Rajek 15 15:45.961 43.020 1:01.523 14 166.240
12 712 Shane Tunnicliffe 15 16:03.602 1:00.661 1:03.196 12 161.839
13 808 Marcus Beagley 14 15:06.322 1 Lap 1:03.744 7 160.448
14 158 Phil Endean 14 15:12.108 5.786 1:03.596 13 160.821
15 80 Phil Snowdon 14 15:33.170 26.848 1:05.645 12 155.802
16 79 Greg Percival 14 15:33.359 27.037 1:05.906 5 155.185
17 95 Gah Chan 13 15:06.455 2 Laps 1:07.961 5 150.492
Not classified (65% = 10 Laps)
DNS 515 Jamie Galway 0 --:--:--.--- --:--:--.--- 0 -

Bets on how ling before the suspension supplier or one of his brownnosed followers jumps on here and quotes me. Am I really that interesting that you have to quote every post I make?

Ok, so what you are saying is you want to be able to post without your post being discussed? No one is allowed to quote you? Forget this discussion forum fella, go fire up a blog somewhere so you can spruik to your hearts content without fear of contradiction.

I'm fucked if I know what your problem is with RT but given that he has received inumerable totally unprompted testimonials from road riders and racers of every calibre and your supporters are conspiculously absent the words "tall poppy" spring to mind. Thanks for your continued efforts to undermine one of the very few world class resources we have in NZ, on behalf of all racers we really appreciate it it.....NOT! Your efforts do nothing but cause aggravation to many whilst distracting from genuine discussion.

Forgetting RT for the moment and getting back to your linked newsletter, my own limited experience tells me that improved aftermarket suspension, just like tyre warmers, will pay for itself very quickly in tyre savings alone. That's right, the short term financial pain gives a long term financial gain, meaning racing is cheaper in the long run. They aren't "luxuries", or "bling", or "unnecessary", they are genuine cost saving options. I don't know this because I've been told it, or read it in a magazine, I know it because I experienced it. I'm a fairly inexperienced late starter at this mug's game and for me to know this but not have our hierarchy comprehend the same basic tenet is quite frankly scary and indicative of how far out of touch they are. Of course if you have had experience to the contrary then I'd like to hear about it.

You can keep Paul Pav and co, GSVR. He may still be quick for the odd lap or three but with that one newsletter he has shown me he doesn't know dick about racing modern bikes on modern tyres or how to engage related industry's. And how does he explain the bulging Club grids where MNZ has little influence versus the paucity of riders at the MNZ co-ordinated National level? Or how does he explain that someone is willing to ride a 600 or F3/Pro-Twin bike in 2 classes (doubling their running costs), at a club event but is unwilling to race one class at their local National event? When was the last time he attended a Vic Club event? It can't have been any time recently because the difference between it and a National round couldn't be more striking. Duck and weave, head in sand, arse covering, however you put it, he's laying the blame anywhere but where it should be.

[Shaun]

http://www.mnz.co.nz/ceo_newsletter_pp_18.aspx

After reading this newletter I don't think I have to ask as they are already onto it.

I don't subsribe to the belief if your not doing around 1.02 around Puke on a 600 your not on the pace shouldn't be there competing at the nationals.

http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=1055735


1 88 Sam Smith 15 15:02.941 59.451 12 172.034
2 G Gareth Jones 15 15:02.955 0.014 59.080 15 173.114
3 1 Dennis Charlett 15 15:05.221 2.280 59.420 6 172.124
4 2 James Smith 15 15:12.251 9.310 1:00.108 5 170.154
5 23 Karl Morgan 15 15:14.095 11.154 1:00.057 13 170.298
6 6 Nick Cole 15 15:15.370 12.429 1:00.184 3 169.939
7 65 Adam Chambers 15 15:24.458 21.517 1:00.474 13 169.124
8 94 Dave Manuell 15 15:24.628 21.687 1:00.979 15 167.723
9 16 Jeremy Holmes 15 15:26.183 23.242 1:00.891 14 167.966
10 28 Brian Wood 15 15:45.832 42.891 1:01.383 6 166.619
11 165 Jamie Rajek 15 15:45.961 43.020 1:01.523 14 166.240
12 712 Shane Tunnicliffe 15 16:03.602 1:00.661 1:03.196 12 161.839
13 808 Marcus Beagley 14 15:06.322 1 Lap 1:03.744 7 160.448
14 158 Phil Endean 14 15:12.108 5.786 1:03.596 13 160.821
15 80 Phil Snowdon 14 15:33.170 26.848 1:05.645 12 155.802
16 79 Greg Percival 14 15:33.359 27.037 1:05.906 5 155.185
17 95 Gah Chan 13 15:06.455 2 Laps 1:07.961 5 150.492
Not classified (65% = 10 Laps)
DNS 515 Jamie Galway 0 --:--:--.--- --:--:--.--- 0 -

Bets on how ling before the suspension supplier or one of his brownnosed followers jumps on here and quotes me. Am I really that interesting that you have to quote every post I make?

I might just get asked to leave the site again, but you realy are a dick Gary!

I have worked with you directly before remember, and I know exactaully how you act and what type of person yu are, GO away bro.

[eelracing]

Good on ya Gary keep it up mate.But you are flogging a dead horse with this lot.But in the interest of open debate you got balls for injecting some much needed counter arguement to this issue.

As i understand it MNZ is proposing a "Privateers Class" and the reason for this is to grow the sport by keeping costs to a minimum and to encourage youth back into the fold.

You superbike and supersport riders still get to keep your class...so whats the problem?Take a look around you at the Nats,there aint many of ya.

Step out of your little world and look at the big picture and lets get this sport back where it belongs by encouraging more participation by making it more affordable.

And yes i am loosely quoting MNZ CEO Paul Pavs newsletter in the latest Motorcycle Trader.I don't know the man personally but i do agree with his remarks regarding roadracings future.I suggest if you have a problem with what he's trying to achieve then put your hand up and put yourself forward for the job.

[GSVR]

I might just get asked to leave the site again, but you realy are a dick Gary!

I have worked with you directly before remember, and I know exactaully how you act and what type of person yu are, GO away bro.

So this was a bad idea? Or is it only bad when MNZ suggests it?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=83753 Post 16 people

Originally Posted by Shaun
Fork Springs and oil Change only in the front end!
Rear spring for rider weight
All using the same brand Shock- As they come direct from the Factory STD!

Another point I raised twice in this thread to our resident suspension guru (and it was ignored) was what happens in an endurance event when two riders of different weight share the same bike? Do they revalve or swap shocks at rider changeovers?

I have never worked with you directly sorry Shaun I was a customer once when I brought a GSXR complete front end off you years ago.

When did you get asked to leave the site thats news to me?

Only reason I can see for experienced fast riders to be against this is they want the rules to suit them so its easier to burgle the class. They should really just keep racing as they have done and (hopefully) look forward to lots of new blood coming into the class at national level.

[Robert Taylor]

Good on ya Gary keep it up mate.But you are flogging a dead horse with this lot.But in the interest of open debate you got balls for injecting some much needed counter arguement to this issue.

As i understand it MNZ is proposing a "Privateers Class" and the reason for this is to grow the sport by keeping costs to a minimum and to encourage youth back into the fold.

You superbike and supersport riders still get to keep your class...so whats the problem?Take a look around you at the Nats,there aint many of ya.

Step out of your little world and look at the big picture and lets get this sport back where it belongs by encouraging more participation by making it more affordable.

And yes i am loosely quoting MNZ CEO Paul Pavs newsletter in the latest Motorcycle Trader.I don't know the man personally but i do agree with his remarks regarding roadracings future.I suggest if you have a problem with what he's trying to achieve then put your hand up and put yourself forward for the job.

So therefore you are completely ignoring the sound technical reasons that have been put forward rationalising why allowing spring changes only to rear shocks doesnt cure squat / pitch control issues.....

But dont listen to me, we only get to sort out such issues on a daily basis.

No-one is arguing about sound reasons for reducing costs!

This thread has also been a real study in how people can kick their toys out of the cot, very shameful.

[steveyb]

IMHO there is actually only a very limited return to be gained by focussing efforts to 'bring youth back into the sport' or however it might have been written, in the Supersport and Superbike areas of the sport.
These classes are not, and should not be where the youth and new riders are.
Don't get me wrong, the Privateers Cup is a good idea, virtually everyone else in the world has an equivalent, but in the end, it still only converts the converted into converts.

If we are really, and I mean really, interested in generating new interest and attracting new cohorts of riders and racers into roadracing then we must look towards the MX model.

The provision of youth only classes where young riders ride against only other young riders on suitable machines and from where they 'graduate' into bigger bikes and senior classes is the only real way in which new people will join our sport in any real and sustainable way.

There is a real perception in the MX paddock (and this is from Tony Rees who is intimately bound to both sides) that Roadracing is too dangerous for little Johnny or Jeanie. Part of this perception is real when they might be thrust into a race with experienced adults. But part of this perception is unfounded when we look at the injury ratios. So we must overcome this. If the sport can attract just 5-10% of the junior MX riders (or anyone else for that matter) who are just 'a bit over it' each year, then we will grow sustainably.

Yes of course people will come and go from the bigger bike classes, but only in small numbers and in a totally unsustainable way. Indeed, much of the reason that they will come and then go again is precisely because they did not start at the beginning, but jumped in halfway along, on an SS600 or SBK bike and it either hurt them or their wallets too much.

The model is already playing out in the South Is with the Motorcycling Canterbury youth initiative. VMCC/Moto Academy NZ and other interested parties (e.g. Maarty VB (is that Victoria Bitter??) Billy) are attempting to emulate this jointly and separatly in the lower North Is.

We do have the Bucket racing scene, but at present the transfer over seems only limited and some riders do get 'stuck' (for want of a better word) there.

Another part of the puzzle that is sorely missing is the provision of machines and infrastructures to riders who have the cash, but lack the remainder of the support that it takes to run bikes. I really think that most of the people posting here are a bit older and have totally forgotten how daunting it must look to a 15-18 yr old who is not from a racing family to get into the sport. He/she is dying to give a whirl but they don't have a bike, leathers, car, tools, trailer, spare parts, knowledge etc etc etc. But they have saved up some money or can get it from Mum and Dad and have the time, the energy and the enthusiasm to really learn something.

I plead with you older guys again, scale back your own racing, buy one or two 125GP bikes, Streetstock bikes or Pro-Twin bikes and find young riders from Buckets or Streetstock or your own neighbourhoods who can give you $5k or so over a year and run them on the bikes.

It is extremely rewarding, way less risky than racing (afterall you are the breadwinner now), and is the primary way we will grow the sport.

I also think that we still hold onto the anachronistic arguement that says "I had to do it the hard way, so you/they can too, bugger them".

To that I say, Valentino Rossi and Casey Stoner, and in another breath, "FFS get over it".

Thanks for listening (well, reading), again.

Steve

[Robert Taylor]

So this was a bad idea? Or is it only bad when MNZ suggests it?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=83753 Post 16 people

Originally Posted by Shaun
Fork Springs and oil Change only in the front end!
Rear spring for rider weight
All using the same brand Shock- As they come direct from the Factory STD!

Another point I raised twice in this thread to our resident suspension guru (and it was ignored) was what happens in an endurance event when two riders of different weight share the same bike? Do they revalve or swap shocks at rider changeovers?

I have never worked with you directly sorry Shaun I was a customer once when I brought a GSXR complete front end off you years ago.

When did you get asked to leave the site thats news to me?

Only reason I can see for experienced fast riders to be against this is they want the rules to suit them so its easier to burgle the class. They should really just keep racing as they have done and (hopefully) look forward to lots of new blood coming into the class at national level.

This is getting totally pathetic, its easy to understand that Shaun was neither agreeing or disagreeing with the technical whys and wherefores. I am guessing that he may not agree with some of my content and if so we can agree to disagree gracefully. A lesson can be learnt from that.
Some of your questions are not worth answering because frankly you have a habit of twisting things, that is one reason why so may people are peeved with you. Demonstrably.
He was referring to the demeanour of your posts and actions.

[oyster]

Steve
100% right, nearly every word written. Does that make two of us in the whole of NZ? Come the rest of ya, do you agree or not. That the chances of a NZ producing future interbnational racers lies with youth development, and THAT ALONE. The days of 17 year old Aaron Slights rocking up to a club meeting for their first Road Race experience and progressing on to world fame are long gone.
If you don't believe that, get your head out of the sand and look at countries that are successful, and in our own country, with ANY sport you wish to name and it all begins with structured youth development.

Steve, you'll be pleased to know it's school holidays so we're out training 11 to 14 year olds tomorrow at Ruapuna, the "new take" of about 10 so far this year.
We're just setting the dates for the FOURTH running of the Sportzfotoz Cup. The only Junior age/experience restricted road racing series over 9 races/3 circuits in NZ.

[Robert Taylor]

Steve
100% right, nearly every word written. Does that make two of us in the whole of NZ? Come the rest of ya, do you agree or not. That the chances of a NZ producing future interbnational racers lies with youth development, and THAT ALONE. The days of 17 year old Aaron Slights rocking up to a club meeting for their first Road Race experience and progressing on to world fame are long gone.
If you don't believe that, get your head out of the sand and look at countries that are successful, and in our own country, with ANY sport you wish to name and it all begins with structured youth development.

Steve, you'll be pleased to know it's school holidays so we're out training 11 to 14 year olds tomorrow at Ruapuna, the "new take" of about 10 so far this year.
We're just setting the dates for the FOURTH running of the Sportzfotoz Cup. The only Junior age/experience restricted road racing series over 9 races/3 circuits in NZ.

Absolutely 100% agree, a great post by Steve, makes sense.

[suzuki mama]

Well SAID Brattley ..... BJT666 FOR PRESIDENT

Jim Tuckerman gets my vote ,you may not always agree with him but he gets the job done, hes been involved in many sports saw his name on a jetsprint programme on Sky recently,always on radio giving accurate race day accounts unlike some who cant tell diffrence between white and chequred flags, i hear hes not a member of the pp fan club ,saw on another website hes posting why hes standing tonight.
Has an excellent relationship with the Industry im told and Sponsors .
one things for sure the sport would run on a more cohesive structure if he was around,

[Maarty]

IMHO there is actually only a very limited return to be gained by focussing efforts to 'bring youth back into the sport' or however it might have been written, in the Supersport and Superbike areas of the sport.
These classes are not, and should not be where the youth and new riders are.
Don't get me wrong, the Privateers Cup is a good idea, virtually everyone else in the world has an equivalent, but in the end, it still only converts the converted into converts.

If we are really, and I mean really, interested in generating new interest and attracting new cohorts of riders and racers into roadracing then we must look towards the MX model.

The provision of youth only classes where young riders ride against only other young riders on suitable machines and from where they 'graduate' into bigger bikes and senior classes is the only real way in which new people will join our sport in any real and sustainable way.

There is a real perception in the MX paddock (and this is from Tony Rees who is intimately bound to both sides) that Roadracing is too dangerous for little Johnny or Jeanie. Part of this perception is real when they might be thrust into a race with experienced adults. But part of this perception is unfounded when we look at the injury ratios. So we must overcome this. If the sport can attract just 5-10% of the junior MX riders (or anyone else for that matter) who are just 'a bit over it' each year, then we will grow sustainably.

Yes of course people will come and go from the bigger bike classes, but only in small numbers and in a totally unsustainable way. Indeed, much of the reason that they will come and then go again is precisely because they did not start at the beginning, but jumped in halfway along, on an SS600 or SBK bike and it either hurt them or their wallets too much.

The model is already playing out in the South Is with the Motorcycling Canterbury youth initiative. VMCC/Moto Academy NZ and other interested parties (e.g. Billy) are attempting to emulate this jointly and separatly in the lower North Is.

We do have the Bucket racing scene, but at present the transfer over is only limited and some riders simply get 'stuck' (for want of a better word) there.

Another part of the puzzle that is sorely missing is the provision of machines and infrastructures to riders who have the cash, but lack the remainder of the support that it takes to run bikes. I really think that most of the people posting here are a bit older and have totally forgotten how daunting it must look to a 15-18 yr old who is not from a racing family to get into the sport. He/she is dying to give a whirl but they don't have a bike, leathers, car, tools, trailer, spare parts, knowledge etc etc etc. But they have saved up some money or can get it from Mum and Dad and have the time, the energy and the enthusiasm to really learn something.

I plead with you older guys again, scale back your own racing, buy one or two 125GP bikes, Streetstock bikes or Pro-Twin bikes and find young riders from Buckets or Streetstock or your own neighbourhoods who can give you $5k or so over a year and run them on the bikes.

It is extremely rewarding, way less risky than racing (afterall you are the breadwinner now), and is the primary way we will grow the sport.

I also think that we still hold onto the anachronistic arguement that says "I had to do it the hard way, so you/they can too, bugger them".

To that I say, Valentino Rossi and Casey Stoner, and in another breath, "FFS get over it".

Thanks for listening (well, reading), again.

Steve

Thats a good idea Steve!, I might just try that!

[steveyb]

Thats a good idea Steve!, I might just try that!

Nah, it'll never take!!

[Maarty]

Nah, it'll never take!!

Ya reckon!

Watch this space buddy, I think you may just be on to something there stevey boy, now, where can I find a boy to ride my TZ138 and another to ride my TZ 130?

[steveyb]

I guess in the main part the one thing I am keenest on seeing is the creation of more race teams and more development teams that take on young riders and offer them all the infrastructure for the exchange of currency.

I think actually that the need for youth development programmes is self evident and that if the people in the sport don't see that, then the sport is doomed and no effort will save it.

The performance based teams (Bernard, Triple R, Honda, etc) are fantastic, but they are that, Performance based and as such aimed at the leading riders, or the nearly leading riders who with a good team become leading riders.

In fact we had the perfect example of this over the past two years with Jimmy Smith from Chch. It is again self evident and stated himself, that without the team structure and environment he would have had to walk away from the sport and we and he would never have gotten to see what he could really do.

But what if Jimmy had been able to start out in a team like that? Would we have seen him become as good as he has gotten 5, 10 years earlier? I believe so.

I reiterate, put yourself in Joes shoes when 14 yr old Johnny or Jeannie says he/she wants to have a go at being Casey Stoner (even though that should not be encouraged as Stoner is actually not a very nice person, someone that should not be emulated. That is direct from the horses mouth, from two people I know who have spent time with him) but Joe has no idea about bikes or anything. But Joe has $10k he is willing to spend over a year or two or more. Where does he go? Who does he see?

If there were teams into which he could buy a seat that advertised the fact in local media then he would know straight away and we would be able to capture Joe, Joe Mum (cos now she sees that Johnny is being tutored and is riding an appropriate bike against similar riders) and Johnny, who might just be another Rossi, you just never know.

In Chch it is easy(ish). In the NI it still takes insider knowledge of some kind. And the default will be to go to the MX track and do that instead, cos Johnny can race against Jeannie and all the other 14yr olds.

So we need to break into that cycle.

As we see from Pete, they are gearing up their full youth programme for the 4th year. Maybe in the NI we can start climbing the ladder to the same place this year?

The only point of any substance on which Pete and I disagree, is the length of time spent by riders on Streetstock bikes in the SI programme. But I fully recognise the financial and resource contraints that slow riders going to 125GP (and of course they are not right for every rider). So we gracefully agree to disagree on that one and just get on with it.

Moto Academy NZ and VMCC are actively trying to get some resources in place for 2009, but it is not an easy or rapid process, so y'all will just have to watch this space.

Thanks for reading..... again.

Steve

[Robert Taylor]

Jim Tuckerman gets my vote ,you may not always agree with him but he gets the job done, hes been involved in many sports saw his name on a jetsprint programme on Sky recently,always on radio giving accurate race day accounts unlike some who cant tell diffrence between white and chequred flags, i hear hes not a member of the pp fan club ,saw on another website hes posting why hes standing tonight.
Has an excellent relationship with the Industry im told and Sponsors .
one things for sure the sport would run on a more cohesive structure if he was around,

100% SPOT ON. He would for starters pull the reins in on the CEO and remind him in no uncertain terms that there is a broken relationship to rebuild with the industry and many members alike. It may already be too late for the CEO to rekindle any trust that many may have previously had in him.
Yes, Jim does indeed get on well with the industry and riders alike. It would be a bumpy ride for a start but a puppet he most certainly wouldnt be.
It is VERY important that MNZ members are not apathetic, every vote counts.