To hang your ass off your seat or not?

[quickbuck]

dude I can show you pictures of guys at insane lean angles who are sitting bum firmly planted on seat. I cant remember my last ONROAD knee down experience

I can remember mine, and it turns out to be one of the dumbest things I have done.
The course chip grabbed my kneeslider, and just about tore my leg off!!!
Twas over 10 years ago now, but I still remember exactly where it happened. Never put my knee on the public road again (not while still riding the bike anyway).

[Fat Tony]

As soon as I hit the (UK) open roads my ass is off the seat in most turns. I weigh sod all and I find it helps big time in conjunction with countersteering. If it makes me look like a squid, then it makes me look like a squid, but I feel more confident riding like that, so I'll continue to do so. I've no chicken strip left on either side of the rear tyre so tipping it further isn't going to be a wise move imho.

The knees rarely goes down on the public road (unless out with mates on familar roads and showboating) and you usually find that trying to get your knee down only goes to slow your progress - sparky sliders do get you some good cheers from the local spectators though, lol

If you really want to improve your confidence in the turns, get your self some track time where it's much safer to try things out and learn from watching/talking to/following more experienced riders. Loads of fun!

[jtzzr]

My arse hangs left sometimes right, every now and then I get on my bike, it will come to you what style you are comfortable with look at the the frogger , he had a totally unique style , just do what suits you. As most peeps on this site know, when your hitting corners at a speed above the recommended speed( I don`t) you are where you want to be,but safely of course. Good luck to you

[deeknow]

One of the more important things in riding especially on the road is to do what you feel comfortable with, if you like moving move if you like sitting planted on the seat do that.

You've hit the nail on the head there I reckon sAsLEX

For the first few fledgling years of my riding experience I worked at both counter-steering and weight-shifting, but I just naturally like to be moving about on the bike so thats the technique I've settled into. It seems more interactive to me, like I'm engaging with the environment a bit more.

However, there are two well-experienced dudes I ride with on occasion who are both counter-steerers, following them (or trying to) was most enlightening for me as I grappled with two-wheeled physics. Despite our natural instinct to want to ride like some GP racer, it really is a personal comfort/style thing that takes time to expose.

Having that patience to discover what's natural for you is probably what helps the "survivors" survive long term.

[deeknow]

The most beneficial things i've found for high speed riding are weight over the forks as much as possible (get it forward and low).

This is another hugely-useful piece of advice, something you're not gonna pick up from some learners-licence skills course, but an apparently simple technique like this can take years to stumble across. I'd say most bikers have that self-taught attitude, but imagine if we'd all had to attend some track-day course when we'd first bought bikes.

I guess not everyone actually wants to be going hard-out all the time, but these sorts of skills surely make for a safer ride at any pace?

[Sketchy_Racer]

I race my 150 on the track and it is also my road bike.

As a road bike:

I have never got my knee down. ever. I have only shifted my weight on two occasions where i have come into a corner to fast and knew i was going to run out of ground clearance if i didnt get some weight on the inside of a bike.

So Alvin, on your 250 and the status of your chicken strips i would not move any weight at all. there is no need. you are not going to be scraping pegs or anything. They only thing you will be achieving by moving your ass off and putting your knee out will just be making you further away from your controls. Plus making you look like SkidMark/Markauckland.

Sit straight with your bike. If you start scraping stuff then deal with it then. a while away yet.

As a Race bike:

Every corner i knee down. As Deano said, it all about guaging the distance of your bike. and in my case on the 150 in the sweeper at manfeild (150kph corner) If i start to tuck the front on my bike i dont hve enough power to accelerate out of it so i use my knee to unload the weight off the bike to help it regain traction.

Also on the track i shift my body weight into the corner because my pegs scrape. By getting my weight lower on the bike (sliding my ass over) i can carry more corner speed without as much scraping.


Forget about where you are sitting on your bike and concentrate on the asian infront of you about to pull out!

-RG

[Deano]

If your chicken strips are as wide as you say, you have a long way to go before you even consider it neccessary. Im no hard rider but I'm down to 10mm rear and 15mm front and thats on a a tourer with Macadam tyres. As others have said, keep it smooth, practice makes perfect. '
I've attached a pic of Hailwood, one of the best racers of all time. Never saw him hang off a bike, nor anyone else of his era, but look at the angle of lean and those skinny tyres.

I have about 5mm front strips (road and track) - I don't get the knee down to pose (sorry Fizzerman haha). As others have said - whatever feels comfortable and works for you. Cycosis is one of the quickest road and track riders I have seen and he doesn't shift his arse sweet FA - he does however, grind his pipe into the ground at track days.

Hailwood is certainly a legend, but given a MotoGP bike, do you think he would change his style ?

Seems Rossi and Co. do it for a reason - obviously tyre technology etc comes in to play.

[Motu]

I only move forward and back,if my pegs touch the ground I'm in big trouble....and it'd be past tense to find that out.

[Clivoris]

The true secret to hanging-off is eating more pies. Both cheeks hang off without effort, end of problem. And you're always looking motogp stylish form all angles.

[PZR]

I started moving around on the seat more recently, not with the intention of getting my knee down but it makes a huge difference to how the bike handles. And reading all this I think it is more the position I end up acheiving as I know I have not moved very far off centre but it helps me load the weight more accuratly. The Beemer is a big heavy bike and me weighting the side of the tank with a knee improves cornering immensely. I imagine it also gets my head lower and I feel like I am in more of an "attack" position for the fast twisties. But for normal legal speed riding I just sit there and enjoy the ride.
Oh yeah it helps a lot if I relax my own middle aged low centre of gravity as well (but thats just between you and me, so dont tell anyone ok?)

[Crasherfromwayback]

Is the question. I got told once; I was too stiff and lacked proper movement/ right motion when cornering which apparently wouldn’t allow you to take corners faster or lean into it more to take it faster.

So I took that on board and started practising moving my ass, sticking my knee out and head and elbow movement proportionally.

The main thing to remember mate is this......motorcycles DO NOT like sudden movements and imputs from the rider. If you want to transfer your weight and body position, do it nicely...that is...smoothly and gently.

It'll all seem a lot more 'fluid' when you remember and practice this.

Just because I crash a lot, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm doing!!

Enjoy.....

Pete

[Pickle]

Just because I crash a lot, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm doing!!


Now that's funny.
But if you have ever ridden with this guy he does know what he is talking about, didnt win a 250 TT by going slow.

[beyond]

The main thing to remember mate is this......motorcycles DO NOT like sudden movements and imputs from the rider.
Pete

I totally agree. A sudden movement when hanging your arse off the seat is inclined to dirty your leathers and your bike. Sudden movements are best left for sand blasting the porcelain.

On that note: Whats brown and sits on a piano stool.












Beethovens last movement.

[sAsLEX]

If your'e hanging off in corners you are totally commited, theres no chance of being able to change your line by very much if the unexpected happens. The more you hang off the more upright the bike can be, a lot of quick road riders still have chicken strips cause theyre hanging there arses out. Looks very try hard and not particulary safe.

Not that I want to start a yes no argument over the web but - try changing line through a corner when your hanging off the bike - then when your sat more to the centre. Its alot harder to change when your hanging off, another reason police persuit riders are taught to sit in the middle, and there not slow riders.

Well not to stoke the argument but you have changed your story. From totally comitted to a little harder to change line...so I would like to put another side of the story out there its called physics.


Now most bikes weigh what? say 160 - 180 for a modern sprotbike more for a tourer more for a cruiser. And your average rider weighs 80ish at a guess, ok I do.

Now in a corner I slide off the inside of the seat, shifting my weight about , and through a series of esses I move from side to side and let the bike remain more upright, now this means that instead of getting 170kg worth of weight moving from side to side like a big momentum filled pendulum I am moving only 80kgs around significantly.

Instead of hangin off the side like a counter weight you should be active on the bike like a jockey, up on your toes ready to move your weight where its needed forward over the forks, left or right back where ever its needed as you as the rider can move about alot faster than the bike can react to plain old control inputs.

So how can one turn faster smack bang in the middle of the seat hanging out there like a big fat pendulum huh?? There must be a reason GP racers do it now through chicanes to keep the bike upright??

But like all techniques/styles/skills a wee bit of common sense goes in to how much one applies on the road where that chicane could pop up at any time and be a possum or a mabel unexpectadly taking up your line.

[mynameis]

Well I got the book, Im unsure if there is a dvd, it is worth the read and it explains a great deal about information you should know, you can then practice the advise and you WILL become a better rider.
By the way , good on you for asking some questions dude

They are $70 and comes in books and Audio (CD) but out of stock at the moment at Whitcoulls. Few volumes have been released as well for those interesed click here on Whitcoulls website. Written by Keith Code

Might try uni library they might have it there if I am luck Cheers !!

I've attached a pic of Hailwood, one of the best racers of all time. Never saw him hang off a bike, nor anyone else of his era, but look at the angle of lean and those skinny tyres.

Good interesting point there mate, the lean angle is pretty low but interesting to see none of the riders are hanging off nor are the knees sticking out wonder why when compared to MotoGP riders of today ? Hmm ..

I've always maintained that at least 5,000kms on a bike before you should know it enough to get away with most things. 10,000kms even better.

Ok I am on my second bike now and must say havent put on the 10 k mark yet pretty sure I haven't. Maybe I just shouldn't push myself too much and perhaps things would fall in place with experience?

Concentrate on being smooth & your lines thru corners the speed will come - Be Patient.

Thanx Veteran sounds good