the progressive workers' strike

[chanceyy]

Without knowing the details of your "collective", or the location of your three sites, I have nothing to reference your comments against. We may or may not be in disagreement.

well needless to say the conditions were not the same on the three sites and caused plenty of friction ... by having delegates on all three sites & union organisers & management & HR all working together a collective has been obtained, yes this did involve give & take on both sides but it has unified the workers

now the friction has gone .. & good working relationships are being formed between the sites, now we are all working to the same goal

I also know that I am fortunate to be working in such a company where everyone on both sides are working to the same goal... but i also know that there are a number of companies who are taking advantage of those ppl who can not or do not thave the skills to stand up for themselves ... so yes there is a need for a union .. & thank god for that

[Skyryder]

Interesting comment, in the seventies I was a Union delegate! John.

So was I.

I could tell the story of how a Union delgate made me unemployed. Left me bitter for many years against the Trade Union movement. But this was the action of one man and it would be wrong to blame the whole movemment because of one man.

Could also tell the story of why I resigned from the AWU when I was at Redbus. But none of these indicents changed my ideology or my support for the 'working class.'

It is fashionable today to blame everyone for todays problems. Someone wont give me this. The government takes that. It's their fault not mine. e.g.Labour misspent x amount of dollars of our money and everyones forgotten that so too did National with their 'pledge' card. We have as nation and a people lost the ability to rationalise with a consesus veiw. It's as if we are looking down a tunnel and can only see the light at the end and not the walls. And half the nation are at one end and the other half at the other. And each is pissed off because they both think that they should be at the other end of the tunnel.

We do not work as a Nation and a team because we have sold our Nation hood and the assets that go with it.

This lockout is a lockout of New Zealanders, our compatriots by an Australian Company and some here support this lockout. That as a Trade Unionist, and a kiwi if find disgracefull.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

I agree, but unfortunately, most workers don't get the chance to negotiate anything.

No matter what the law says, if you are at the bottom of the pile and as talented as all get out there is zero chance of negotiating anything - it's take it or leave it.

I have been involved in all sorts of interesting situations regarding this type of arrangement and collective agreements are the best bet for this type of job. Individually, you WILL get screwed.

I don't understand why we always compare ourselves to off shore economies?

This is New Zealand. We can do things our own way, we don't need to be like (god forbid) america or england or anything else. Its a bloody grouse place to live and it was made so on the backs of all the 'little' people doing jobs many people here would turn their noses up at.

Look, we go on about the tall poppy syndrome etc, bollocks, it does not exist. Kiwis love to see people do well if they earn it by being clever or hardworking and are still decent folks. Shit, they even love people that win Lotto. The tall poppies are bloody dorks that have some sort of attention seeking trait that made em rich (usually by shitting on someone else or doing something dodgy) and then they get all bloody smug and preachy about it and surprise surprise, they get hammered. Quite rightly and it happens everywhere. Christ, would you praise those wanker americas cup sailors that jumped ship?? screw them.

CONVERSELY, there are people who are happy with smaller lives, they don't need, want or desire massive riches, they just want to lead a life with a regular pay packet, enough comfort and some spare coin. Often they are quite aware of their limitations and are perfectly happy. They don't need Donald trumps life and wouldn't have it if you gave it to them.... The problem is, the Donald Trumps don't like that because they think they are so damn special everyone wants to be them... NO THEY DON'T.

These 'little' people have a hard won right to organise themselves into a union to collectively protect what they see as thei rights. They are legally entitled to do so and in this particular case, from what I have read they are being treated shamefully by a foreign company.

Whats bloody wrong with you people? Are you so used to being pushed around by that gay cow and her high school teacher bullies you all lost your friggin balls?? (if so, benson pope has some for ya) These folks are within their hard earned rights and not asking for much and are prepared to suffer for a principle and I admire them for having the guts to do it 'cos it is NOT an easy thing to do. They are your fellow Kiwis and they might just be right and I say support them even if you don't 100% agree with em, screw progressive cos if it comes to a fight, who are you backing, the local guy or the multi national? Go the little guys, stick up for yourselves and I know where i'm shopping until this is done.

Paul N

New Zealander and bloody proud of it.

Good post Paul.

Just another reason why you are worth a bottle of Malt.

Skyryder

[Finn]

6) Wish I could make 5'6"..!

You should stick to driving taxi's and leave the jokes for me.

[Finn]

now thats a stupid comment finn

Sorry, I don't do stupid. You must have me confused with someone else.

The "let's screw business" policies of this government coupled with the laziness, lack of intergrity and work ethics of the average kiwi is not condusive to a favourble environment for business. It's worse if you hire maori's. Years ago, I had one maori person in my company that went to 6 funerals in one year, had 36 sick days off, was always late and was useless when they made a guest appearence. We went through a process to get rid of this person and they took us to the tribunal. We lost because the person was maori and were told to pay $5000 for wrongful dismisal. Of course we didn't pay and never will but that's beside the point. This person affected everybody around them and caused many problems.

So what did we learn from this? Never hire a maori and we never have since then.

[Madness]

The only benefit to anybody as a result of all this is to Foodstuffs & it's affiliates. Surely that's idiotic business practice in itself. Laila Harre is looking awfully old too, I heard a rumor she's sleeping with Margaret Wilson.

[chanceyy]

Sorry, I don't do stupid. You must have me confused with someone else.

The "let's screw business" policies of this government coupled with the laziness, lack of intergrity and work ethics of the average kiwi is not condusive to a favourble environment for business. It's worse if you hire maori's. Years ago, I had one maori person in my company that went to 6 funerals in one year, had 36 sick days off, was always late and was useless when they made a guest appearence. We went through a process to get rid of this person and they took us to the tribunal. We lost because the person was maori and were told to pay $5000 for wrongful dismisal. Of course we didn't pay and never will but that's beside the point. This person affected everybody around them and caused many problems.

So what did we learn from this? Never hire a maori and we never have since then.

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm you do not do stupid ... well sorry you just did, 2nd time in one nite ..

I guess your of the once bitten twice shy brigade, however its not a race related thing ... its the moralistic, ethical fibre of a person ... i know some extremely hard working Maori people & i know some extremely lazy other breeds .. as for me .. i am a mongrel but hey i work damn hard & I fit any outside activity around my work schedule ..

& I dispute the average kiwi is lazy with a lack of ingetrity .. I know some pretty damn well hard working individuals .. you need to stop lumping everyone under the same banner ..

[oldrider]

As one who has worked under a National Union Agreement and the Employment Contract Act which was chaperoned by the Buisness Roundtable you are once again wrong. The Employment Contract's Act was put in place by National with consultation by the Emplyers Federation, Federated Farmers and others that I now no longer recall. There has always been 'consultation by employers in how to look after their interests at the expense of those that work for them. It is why their are buisness associations across the broad spectrum of the buisness community. There are some buisness that go beyond the call of duty in this reguard.

I have no idea where you get the idea of fear from. I have been involved in the Trade Union movement for some time, those that disagree with Union policy have never been in fear. Certainly not in New Zealand. In fact I am of the opionion that the Trade Uniosts have been in fear of Management and their thugs. For proof of that I have only to mention the name of Earnie Abbot. For those that do not recall the name Earnie Abbot was the cleaner that was blown up by a bomb that was left in the Wellington Trades Hall. His killer has never been bought to justice.

Yes Or there has been Unions who have used the bat so too has managment. Henry Ford is one who first comes to mind. And it would be mindless to pusue this any further as to the rights and wrongs.

The Trade Union movement is about looking after those that for whatever reason do not have the skills to look after their own interests.

Contrary to what most people think trade union officials are not highly paid. It's an ideology that provides the 'working' incentive. Many might disagree with the ideology and that is their right, but make no mistake it's hard work spending all you life asking so that others may benifit. It's a commitment that few are prepared to make.

Skyryder

He said, I said, we said,so many men, so many opinions, I have offered my opinion, you have expressed yours, our perception is our reality!

The worst example of any Union that I have had any association with is the Seaman's Union, 1960 to 1965.

I think the parasite consumed the host in this case and lead to the demise of New Zealand shipping industry.

I would be afraid legally to post about my experiences with this organisation!

F P Walsh of the Seaman's Union was the first President of the Federation of Labour.(that I am aware of)

His true history would make very interesting reading, "fear" , say no more!

Poor old Ernie, they never caught the bomber because........?

There is an old saying, "hoist with his own petard" , makes you wonder, what really happened?

You are quite correct about Henry Ford but it was, like does, as like does, back then, the birth days of the union movement for which I have a lot of appreciation and sympathy but it has outlived itself today!

When compulsory unionism was legislated out, they almost disappeared, because nobody really wanted the extra cost burden of paying for them to exist and add no value to their lives. Market forces in action!

The only union that I have total respect for and believe that they did a good job, was the cleaners union.

My wife was a school cleaner and while she was a member, she did not ever actively participate but I used to read all their material that they sent to her.

I rated their integrity, performance and dedication to their members very highly, I even believe they added value to the industries they were associated with.

I still think the people involved in the action that promoted this thread are being used for something far greater than their immediate action. Poor buggers! John.

[chanceyy]

I hear that Don Brash has lost the backing of the brethern .................................................. ............................

but has picked up the morman's votes

[Finn]

The only benefit to anybody as a result of all this is to Foodstuffs & it's affiliates.

And me. Prog are a good customer of ours and we're doing heaps more work for them to support their distribution problem.

[Ixion]

There's not much that anyone could say about that treacherous, traitorous bastard Patrick Fintan Walsh that would be worse than the reality.

may he rot in the lowest circles of Hell. He an his like are certainly not what the union movement is about.

[ManDownUnder]

Why look at others?

Lets look at ourselves. If we can all make our own lot better, wont the lot of NZ as a whole be better too?

Yes people that came from nothing and rose to riches are inspirational (when that inspiration is deserved), but it's not uncommon if you have the want to actually do some work.

For God's sake you don;t even need an IQ of note. If you can swing a hammer, dig a hole, clean shit out of blocked dunnies... you're welathy in the lazy land of ours...

'nuff said - I'm back off to my corner
MDU
PS Come to the home show, stand 49 New Water, buy one of the fucken things and help me on the way to my fortune... see - I'm practising what I preach...

[Finn]

I dispute the average kiwi is lazy with a lack of ingetrity .. I know some pretty damn well hard working individuals .. you need to stop lumping everyone under the same banner ..

Look mum, I didn't. I said the "average" kiwi. That's not all of them but it's quite a lot.

[chanceyy]

And me. Prog are a good customer of ours and we're doing heaps more work for them to support their distribution problem.

ahhhhh so now we know what the story is finn .. your company is lining its pockets off this issue lmfao .. that explains it ..


thought you had walked away from this thread .. can not stay away huh
all 5'6 of you hehehehehe sorry i thought that was pretty witty so had to give bling ..

[Finn]

Why look at others?

Lets look at ourselves. If we can all make our own lot better, wont the lot of NZ as a whole be better too?

ManDownUnder for Miss Universe!

good point though