60 Minutes tonight (18 September)

**The_Dover** · 19th September 2006, 10:02

Originally Posted by 98tls

...and never a mistreated animal ever....the old man even had a soft spot for a couple of old back and tans who used to find a spot in front of the fire come winter.....

Isn't it considered mistreating an animal in Oamaru when you forget to buy them flowers or kiss them on the lips afterwards?

**cowpoos** · 19th September 2006, 11:23

Originally Posted by The_Dover

Isn't it considered mistreating an animal in Oamaru when you forget to buy them flowers or kiss them on the lips afterwards?

no thats the taranaki.........

**Hitcher** · 19th September 2006, 11:26

Originally Posted by cowpoos

no thats the taranaki...

Well, "good manners" is supposed to be a virtue.

**placidfemme** · 19th September 2006, 11:44

Originally Posted by Beemer

I think the worst part was the description of what they did to the day-old male chicks. How the HELL can they justify that by saying it is the most humane and painless method of killing them?

Eh thats the part that got to me too... I admit, I even changed the channel when they put the chicks in that thingy that dices them up (don't even know if they showed that, but I didn't wanna see it). And the battery hens are disgusting too...

I don't know if the program was biased or not. But some of those things are just cruel, like electrocuting the pigs before slitting thier necks... (didn't change channel quick enough that time).

Sam and I only buy free-range eggs, took me forever to explain why the "cheap" ones weren't on my shopping list... Even her mother had a go at me for it... my response "I'm paying for it... its going in my body... therefore my choice"

**cowpoos** · 19th September 2006, 13:22

Originally Posted by placidfemme

I don't know if the program was biased or not. But some of those things are just cruel, like electrocuting the pigs before slitting thier necks...

same thing happens to cattle doll....but this method is very human....as is lethal injection [putting to sleep as vets call it]...thats why those two methods are used in the US for death row inmates...
We can't use drugs to kill animals for food....as there are residues in the meat...so electrocuting is the most human method...and instant and totally painless....

I have alot of opinions on what I saw on 60mins last night....as I'm very passionate about animals,aswell as being a farmer in this so called system of cruelty as it was basically labeled last night...I really don't think for the most part those activists have a clue about the dairy industry....but I can't help but agree with battrey hens....and the way pigs are cared for....but even then not every pig farmer/chicken farmer needs to grouped like they were last night on telli...I know a pig farmer that plays soccor with his young pigs 4 days of the week...lets them all out of their pens for a good run around and kill a couple of wharehouse soccor balls [soccor balls are a hard thing to get your accountant to write off as a bussiness expense apparently...lol]...has a old tv set up and going most of the day in the pigery...and he spends far to much time looking after them...

it was just another sensationalist report...blah!

**placidfemme** · 19th September 2006, 13:34

Originally Posted by cowpoos

same thing happens to cattle doll....but this method is very human....as is lethal injection [putting to sleep as vets call it]...thats why those two methods are used in the US for death row inmates...
We can't use drugs to kill animals for food....as there are residues in the meat...so electrocuting is the most human method...and instant and totally painless....

I'll take your word for it, I thought it would have hurt cause the pig was making some nasty noises...

**Hitcher** · 19th September 2006, 13:56

Originally Posted by placidfemme

I don't know if the program was biased or not. But some of those things are just cruel, like electrocuting the pigs before slitting thier necks... (didn't change channel quick enough that time).

Sam and I only buy free-range eggs, took me forever to explain why the "cheap" ones weren't on my shopping list... Even her mother had a go at me for it... my response "I'm paying for it... its going in my body... therefore my choice"

New Zealand's animal welfare standards require that animals are insensitive to pain before slaughter. They aren't electrocuted, they're electrically stunned. If you leave them for a couple of minutes they will regain consciousness. This requirement is a particular concern to New Zealand's jewish community.

"Free-range" eggs and poultry involves a lot of myths and legends about what hens do and don't do and the capacity of these sorts of production systems to cost-effectively feed large numbers of people. However, like homeopathy and iridology, it meets a particular market need and people who buy them believe they are taking some moral high path. Good on them, as long as they don't try and postulate that they can "taste the difference". Any discussion of this topic is probably better had in the Scottish thread...

**The_Dover** · 19th September 2006, 14:06

Originally Posted by cowpoos

I know a pig farmer that plays soccor with his young pigs 4 days of the week...lets them all out of their pens for a good run around and kill a couple of wharehouse soccor balls [soccor balls are a hard thing to get your accountant to write off as a bussiness expense apparently...lol]...has a old tv set up and going most of the day in the pigery...and he spends far to much time looking after them...

Does he kiss them on the lips too?

**sels1** · 19th September 2006, 14:08

Originally Posted by cowpoos

. ..so electrocuting is the most human method...and instant and totally painless....

Thats what we would like to think....but, as Placidfemme pointed out, why did the pig scream? I spent some time installing some equipment at the freezing works and was able to watch the killing chain in action - not a pretty sight. The animals going in were stressed and terrified - they could sense the fear and death. Altho most appeared knocked out by the electric stun, some obviously werent. But they still had a steel hook put thru their feet, hung upside down, their throats cut, the blood spurting out into a trough while they took their last breath before having their skin torn off by a machine and then disembowled and sliced up. Civilised?

Originally Posted by cowpoos

. ...I know a pig farmer that plays soccor with his young pigs 4 days of the week...lets them all out of their pens for a good run around and kill a couple of wharehouse soccor balls ..has a old tv set up and going most of the day in the pigery...and he spends far to much time looking after them...

Thats sounds cool - but then how does he feel when he sends them off to the works?

Originally Posted by cowpoos

it was just another sensationalist report...blah!

It seems you have to be sensationalist to get any sort of message across to jaded tv audiences these days...

**Squeak the Rat** · 19th September 2006, 14:13

Have a read of Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser. I hear they've just made it into a movie for all those with high intellects.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fast-Food-Na...UTF8&s=gateway

**Jantar** · 19th September 2006, 14:15

Originally Posted by Hitcher

...."Free-range" eggs and poultry involves a lot of myths and legends about what hens do and don't do and the capacity of these sorts of production systems to cost-effectively feed large numbers of people. However, like homeopathy and iridology, it meets a particular market need and people who buy them believe they are taking some moral high path. Good on them, as long as they don't try and postulate that they can "taste the difference". Any discussion of this topic is probably better had in the Scottish thread...

Our hens are free range, and since keeping hens we haven't had any problems with grass grub in our little orchard or in our lawn.

As for taste the difference well all i can say to that is "Sure Can". But its not only the taste, its also the colour of the yolks. When our hens are off the lay over winter and we have to buy eggs, we notice that the yolks are a very pale yellow, but when our hens are laying (as in right now) we get eggs with a bright yellow yolk. Next time your down this way, Hitcher, call in for lunch (or even overnight) and I'll make sure that eggs are on the menu.

I do believe that the difference is is in the hens diet, and not simply a matter of whether or not they are raised in a cage. Our hens get to pick all day long, grubs, bugs etc are always fair game for them, and if we accidently leave our back door open then the cheeky blighters will come into the house and steal the cats' food as well. Each evening the hens are fed in their hutch with any kitchen scraps we might have as well as a generous helping of mixed wheat and layer pellets. So yes we can taste a difference between free range eggs and battery eggs.

I might add that most eggs sold in supermarkets as free range aren't actually free range at all. The hens are still reared in sheds and fed on commercial mash, its just that they are allowed to free range inside the shed rather than being kept in cages.

**The_Dover** · 19th September 2006, 14:17

The thing that struck me about this program was the fucking rich hippy and his flower children eating fuckin sushi on the beach.

Sorry Mr Fucking Sensitive Balls, not everyone can afford that kind of lifestyle and some have to settle for factory farmed produce simply because of the cost.

Wankers.

**Joni** · 19th September 2006, 14:24

The day before I saw the preview for this - decided there and then I would not be watching it - guaranteed tears from me. So I did not see it and have not read through much of this thread either...

Just wierd how people handle things different Hitch - you wanted it taped, I am like an ostrich with my head in the sand... can't watch! :spudwhat:

**Hitcher** · 19th September 2006, 15:13

Originally Posted by Jantar

Our hens are free range, and since keeping hens we haven't had any problems with grass grub in our little orchard or in our lawn.

I might add that most eggs sold in supermarkets as free range aren't actually free range at all. The hens are still reared in sheds and fed on commercial mash, its just that they are allowed to free range inside the shed rather than being kept in cages.

We're not in disagreement. I'll bet your hens' eggs are delicious.

One of my points is that it is impractical for a whole bunch of reasons to produce all of New Zealand's eggs from "free-range" hens, including space requirements, production costs and disease risk. We've seen what happens in other parts of the world from diseases like avian influenza and how these are easily spread from wild birds to domestic flocks that have no biosecurity protection measures in place.

And yes, most of New Zealand's eggs are "barn laid" rather than "free range".