Presbyterians reverse decision

[John Banks]

I hear that next they'll be making sure their ministers don't eat shellfish, trim their hair around their temples or wear clothes made out of two fabrics. Them all being equal abominations, and all.

I'm also looking forward to them announcing that women will no longer be able to speak in church.

[terbang]

Besides, I've never seen a fish that resembles the north island.

Dunno it sort of resembles some sort of a Ray. Maybe the Maori cartographers, bearing in mind that history is generally only written by the victor, knew a bit more than they have been given credit for.

[Harry33]

Sky is an important part of maori culture. It dates back hundreds of years.

Besides, I've never seen a fish that resembles the north island.

Didn't "Back of the Y" have a poo shaped like NZ.

[kro]

Perhaps they should change the belief?

Without consistency, the church has nothing more to offer the world, than well run private societies, so no, don't change the gospel, stick fast to it.

Changing the belief would be like Spankme having to become a car driver, because the rest of us think he's pig headed, not wanting to own or drive one. People harp on about Christians forcing their beliefs onto us, but comments like this Oakie, suggest the opposite.

[John Banks]

Without consistency, the church has nothing more to offer the world, than well run private societies, so no, don't change the gospel, stick fast to it.

That's ironic, considering the church is anything but consistent. They ignore plenty of other, much clearer verses, so why not this?

[kro]

That's ironic, considering the church is anything but consistent. They ignore plenty of other, much clearer verses, so why not this?

Granted, but without a clearer picture of exactly what you are referring to, I have to take that on advisement.

The translation of Biblical text is a minefield imo, and too many people have taken excerpts, or entire passages way out of context, and created mayhem with them. I would very much love to read the Bible in it's raw form, as I firmly believe that volumes of meaning in it, have been killed through mis-translation.

The main form of misunderstanding I find in people who have "read the Bible", is looking at the raw form of the "law" in the old testament, and not taking into account that the New Testament re-wrote the rules so to speak. God saw his people struggling, and revamped everything with the "Jesus years".

It's actually a fascinating text, as are alot of the religious writings.

[John Banks]

What I generally like to refer to in regards to this is 1 Corinthians 14:34-35. This is in fairly clear language, is in the New Testament, and is an example of something the church has (rightly so) discarded.

14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

[kro]

The churches decision to allow this, is in direct contradiction to this edict, therefore the ones who allow it, are putting the practise of their faith "out of order". If one thing shines through when studying the Christian Faith, is that God is orderly, and going outside of this order, creates struggles, and problems.

If you put aside your personal beliefs for a second, and just allow yourself to imagine God and Lucifer are the real deal. Lucifer was pushed out of Heaven, and told he had but one place he would end up, which is Hell, then in Lucifers position, would you then have any scruples about taking as many with you as possible?. Lie cheat, steal, whisper, coerce, and downright push, would be Lucifers plan, but the whole time, denying his existence, so as to not alert the masses.

Certain aspects of the Humans rights movement we have seen in the last 50 or so years especially, has allowed Lucifer to use every lever he has to twist the order of God out of shape, and the warping of the Order, is why the Church lacks effectiveness to this very day. They have some success, but are thwarted at every turn by people who think they can rewrite Gods word.

What comes next, do we allow Satanists to lead our Churches?

Just my 2c worth really, I find the subject quite fascinating, so keep posting, I love a good yarn.

[Skyryder]

Is there no end to your verbal diarrhoea? You talk so much utter bullshit they should name a disgusting smell after you. You are a classic example of someone who doesn't have a single thought of their own. Your knowledge is purely academic and is so far removed from reality.

Hey there's an idea. What about an aftershave. Skyryder. Got no bike but want to smell like a biker. Skyryder. The aftershave that'll turn any wuss into the genuine bad arse biker. You'll stink so much that the chicks will think you are the real thing. Comes in two different versions. Crotch/rocket for that sporty pong and underarm for the cruiser aroma. Ladies version comes in a plastic dildo bottle.

Skyryder

PS I'm getting heaps PM's of encouragment so just keep post ing Finn and let's not disapoint the punters.

[terbang]

Yeah ya gotta love those loud attacks. Often wonder why they are like that. Maybe because the airs thicker down there at 5'6" AMSL.

[Finn]

Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla. Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla. Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla. Bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla bla bla bla. Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla. Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla. Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla. Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla. Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla, bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla. Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla.

Yeah whatever. Hey, post up your PM's - you can take the names off, it'll be fun. Or is this just more of the bullshit we've come to expect from SkyRyder???

[Oakie]

Without consistency, the church has nothing more to offer the world, than well run private societies, so no, don't change the gospel, stick fast to it.

A). It's not about changing the gospel ... it's about recognising that society has moved on from where it was 2000 years ago. (Or has it?)

B) Consistency is a good thing but if that consistency does not reflect the environment in which any organisation operates, is it really maximising it's opportunities?

C) If the church exludes a portion of our population for whatever reason and is not therefore open to everyone, is it not itself becoming a "well run private society"?

Good debate. Can't understand as an athiest why I get so interested in religious debates.

[Edbear]

Good debate. Can't understand as an athiest why I get so interested in religious debates.

Probably because it's fun and you can provoke some interesting reactions...

[bane]

C) If the church exludes a portion of our population for whatever reason and is not therefore open to everyone, is it not itself becoming a "well run private society"?

I suggest the Presbyterians would say they are not excluding these people from the church, only from positions of leadership.


This isnt a religious battle as I see it, it could be an animal rights activist owning a chain of butchery's... Hypocrisy is hypocrisy.

[Rogue Rider]

The thing that frustrates me the most about religion is the fact that there is so much hipocracy and double standard setting. It turns so people off that they can't seem to stand together and be unidied. ie there are 30+ mainstream christian churches yet for the most count they can't agree on the colour of Shite. I think any faith or beleif system that can't follow its own teachings and fundamental standards holds very little in the way of credibilty. For the most part, nearly all religions denote and consider homosexuality as immoral or at least wrong. But my understanding of God, and especially Jesus' teachings is grace, and forgiveness. He said that we must love all and help eachother. After all we all do bad stuff to varying levels. Who is to say who deserves what.... I thought that was Gods judgement and that we would all be measured as we measure.
I think the decision to deny leadership to those who did not fall into the acceptable criteria for Godly ministers is correct. But how could it have been accepted otherwise, thats the point that shocks me. How can someone clearly disobeying God with there lifestyle be accepted into leadership.. Just shows sugar in the fuel tank, everything there gonna sieze up eventually.