OMG! This much fun has to be illegal! But how do I start my bike?

[xwhatsit]

Hahaha just bought my first bike -- 1984 Honda CB250RS (silver, ooo shiny) for $1650 this morning. My uncle, who has a good mechanical knowledge came and checked the bike out, gave it the thumbs up, so I bought it. Rode around the neighbourhood for a bit (the speedo cable is broken so I don't know how fast I'm going (easy to replace), it feels like I'm doing 100mph but I'm behind cars that usually do about 40-50kph along that rode lol). Learning how to change gears and declutch without stalling it. Finding neutral is a bitch.

One thing, I haven't actually managed to start the bike yet. Even my uncle had trouble and he's a relatively strong guy (at least compared to me, I'm a skinny little guy). He hasn't really had a proper look at it yet, but he suspects something to do with the fuel system. The bike is even more difficult to start when it's hot. The seller confirmed that; he said he will start it cold, ride it to the gas station, fill it up, then try and start it and get frustrated... but if he leaves it for a little while it will start again. What are your thoughts? The machine leaks oil out of the top of the engine slightly. Is this relevant? I'd really like to be able to drive it somewhere and be able to come home again lol. Thanks everybody, I'm loving motorcycles so far despite the frustration!!

-Tom

[xwhatsit]

Sorry to double post but I just bump started it... did it the first time but couldn't get it into neutral while I ran to get my helmet so I stalled it. Second time I got it into neutral and put my helmet on (far too hot to run it along the driveway wearing a full-face helmet! Die of no oxygen!) then ran around for a bit before I stalled it letting the clutch out too quickly. So it's possible to start but there's no way I should have to do that all the time. Anybody have any ideas?

[MattRSK]

I cant help you with the problem, but nice choice of bike!

[xwhatsit]

Haha yeah I don't know much about bikes (apart from having a 50cc scooter I used to ride around the house when I was a wee boy) but everything about the bike feels fluid and smooth... it feels so light when I go aroudn corners, not much heavier than my mountain bike. Much fun! I want to go out again and play with it but I'll be too knackered after getting it started and I have to go to work in an hour or so... won't be able to carry plates around I'll just collapse lol!

[thehollowmen]

Can't get it in to neutral or out of neutral?

All dog boxes (gear box design used in bikes and some cars) work this way.

Let out the clutch a little, just to the points where they begin to engage, but not to the point where the bike lets out and stalls. Everything in the gearbox needs to line up before it clicks in, and this gets the pieces rotating.

now the starting problem *ponders* I'll think about that one a while

[thehollowmen]

Depending on where the oil is coming from... it could be to do with that. Can you provide a photo?

The other thing is, just vary the throttle a bit when you give it a kickstart. Some like to be dead closed, others a little open.. Try and find one that works when the engine is warm.

Also when warm you may not need the choke.

[SwanTiger]

Hahaha just bought my first bike -- 1984 Honda CB250RS (silver, ooo shiny) for $1650 this morning.

Congratulations a very nice choice as a first motorcycle.

http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/hon...50_rs_1984.php

The seller confirmed that; he said he will start it cold, ride it to the gas station, fill it up, then try and start it and get frustrated... but if he leaves it for a little while it will start again. What are your thoughts?

It could be a number of variables causing this problem, however my advice would be for you to first of all check that you have suffecient spark and that the spark plug itself is clean and the 'gap' measurement is correct. Secondly I would suggest you check the fuel system and air box to ensure everything is functioning as it should.

Replacing the spark plug might be a good idea regardless. A replacement shouldn't cost anymore than $15 and you can source one from the usual outlets, such as Repco or Super Cheap Auto, or better, a motorcycle dealership.

The machine leaks oil out of the top of the engine slightly. Is this relevant?

Where abouts exactly is the oil leaking from, could you provide a bit more of a description please?

Here is a somewhat negative run down on the CB250RS copied from (http://www.umgweb.com/usedguidhonda.html) a Honda website. It basically outlines all the problems that the CB250RS is prone to develop.

Pleasant thumper when newish but ages badly, especially if ridden to its full potential. Most problems come from weak top end with piston, rings and camshaft bearings susceptible to demise at as little as 15k, especially if the gauze oil filter isn’t cleaned every 7500 miles. Chain driven balancer also troublesome. Electric start version strips its teeth. Base gasket cracks. Calipers quick rot. DR's ruined most of them.

And here is a link (http://www.umgweb.com/member1/hsinrss1.htm) that provides more indepth information about the CB250RS from current/previous owners around the world. This might be worth reading.

As for the gear box problem, I can't provide much advice on that, other than to say both the Hyosung's that we own occasionally have problems finding nuetral. As 'thehollowmen' mentioned, letting the clutch out slightly and getting a feel usually helps you find neutral more easily.

If you find you need parts, there are two auctions on Trade Me where someone is selling boxes of parts for a CB250RS.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Mo...n-71623928.htm and http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Mo...n-71623930.htm

Did the seller provide you with a workshop manual when he sold you the bike?

[xwhatsit]

Thank-you everyone for your responses! Very useful, and I've already decided I love this forum. Tomorrow morning I'll take a photo of the engine to see where the oil is leaking from... it's not immediately apparent visually (or it wasn't to me) of where it was coming from. Do you think the oil leak is a big problem, signifying something very bad, or is it just a worn out part letting a little oil out, nothing to worry about?

In terms of the neutral thing, I've decided that it's not a problem with the box, it's just me... I've never used a manual gearbox before (this is my first wheels full stop) so I'm still learning how to work it. I find if I just gently nudge the lever up when it's in first rather than taking it the whole way it snicks in very easily.

Starting it is my biggest worry. I want to ride it to work but I can't see myself finishing waiting tables at 11pm and trying to jumpstart it down Upton Rd. A little dangerous and if I can't get the thing to go I'm in the shit. I'll take a look at that spark plug Swan Tiger if I can find the right tools. Now I don't live with my dad I don't have access to his gigantic range of tools! In terms of the gap measurement, I suppose that sort of information would be in the user's manual which I don't have. I had a look around on the net before for a manual for the bike but people seem to have nearly every manual in existence except for the CB250RS which seems odd as it's very common. Might post another thread and see if anybody can help me in this area. If I buy a new spark plug it will already have the correct gap? In terms of `sufficient spark' I take it you mean if I take the spark plug out but still on the lead and turn the engine over there should be a good-sized flash?

The last thing I would like to know, is how do I get the bloody seat off lol? I take it does come off? I would like to know if there's any storage under there, hopefully a toolkit would be nice, and I also want to get at the battery to put my multimeter across it and see how it is.

Thanks everybody a whole heap,

-Tom

P.S. Semi-seriously, is it possible to retro-fit an electric start? I know the later model CB250RS' had them. That would be nice, even if it would crush my ego slightly ^_^

[SwanTiger]

Do you think the oil leak is a big problem, signifying something very bad, or is it just a worn out part letting a little oil out, nothing to worry about?

Could do, more than likely a gasket is old and tired and needs replacing.

In terms of the neutral thing, I've decided that it's not a problem with the box, it's just me.

Cool.

I'll take a look at that spark plug Swan Tiger if I can find the right tools. Now I don't live with my dad I don't have access to his gigantic range of tools! In terms of the gap measurement, I suppose that sort of information would be in the user's manual which I don't have. I had a look around on the net before for a manual for the bike but people seem to have nearly every manual in existence except for the CB250RS which seems odd as it's very common. Might post another thread and see if anybody can help me in this area. If I buy a new spark plug it will already have the correct gap? In terms of `sufficient spark' I take it you mean if I take the spark plug out but still on the lead and turn the engine over there should be a good-sized flash?

Nah, leave the spark plug attached to the lead and position it 'near' the head part of the engine and kick the bike over and watch for a spark trying to jump across. Gap measurement would be in the manual, yep. I'll have a look around later and see if I can find a manual, there is bound to be one available free online.

The last thing I would like to know, is how do I get the bloody seat off lol? I take it does come off? I would like to know if there's any storage under there, hopefully a toolkit would be nice, and I also want to get at the battery to put my multimeter across it and see how it is.

Pass, I imagine it is either done by key or their is a release mechanism under the seat. Have a good scout around and see if you can find anything obvious.

P.S. Semi-seriously, is it possible to retro-fit an electric start? I know the later model CB250RS' had them. That would be nice, even if it would crush my ego slightly ^_^

I reckon it would be possible. Those links I provided in my previous post are to a CB250RS "luxury model" which has the electric start. You might be able to work something out, how I'm not sure - anything is possible!

If you don't know anyone with the right tools I've got some you can borrow or I'm sure someone closer around Auckland will lend you some. I brought a pack of spark plug sockets from Repco for $10 so it might pay to go out and buy yourself some of the 'generic' stuff anyway, should cost too much. I'm sure $100 would get you everything you'll ever need.

[xwhatsit]

Thanks heaps, SwanTiger. W.r.t. tools, I can borrow my uncle's, he has an entire double garage of socket wrenches and powertools (and old Austins). It's just nice to have all that kind of stuff at home. Thanks for the offer though! This has to be the warmest welcome to any forum I've ever had.

I'll have a play tomorrow if I have time, and write how things went. I'll pull out the camera too and take a shot for that oil issue.

Cheers everybody! I'm going to bed because daylight saving means I have to get up even earlier for my motorcycle course than I thought!

-Tom

[SwanTiger]

BTW, heres a really good indepth guide relating to spark plugs with photos.

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/maint...sparkplugs.htm

Good luck with the course

[MyGSXF:Me]

Cheers everybody! I'm going to bed because daylight saving means I have to get up even earlier for my motorcycle course than I thought!

-Tom

Welcome to KB Tom!! Love your enthusiasm!! Give it heaps on your bike course tomorrow!!

[T.W.R]

Great choice of bike Honda could learn a thing if they still made them.
had one many many moons ago great machine.

The hard starting issue will/should be just a case of 'in need of a tune up' pretty straight forward job to do. If my memory serves me right the plug should be a NGK DR8EA, a fresh plug does wonders & seeing you've just got the bike, fresh oil & oil filter and air filter clean wouldn't be a bad idea either. On starting the bike too, they're sensitive to the choke so you don't need much & it pays to cancel it asap after starting from cold & definately none when warm. In tune the bike should fire into life 2nd kick every time. You know you have to lift the R/H footrest up before kick starting too

The oil leak around the head is most likely the tappet covers weeping, The covers have rubber O-rings set into a recess that mate upto the flat face of the cam cover. They never were a great seal but there's nothing a bit of sealant can't fix. Four larger bolts on the cam cover that have copper sealing rings these weep sometimes too but never excessively.

To remove the seat there are two bolts just behind the shock absorber top mounts on either side that have to be undone then the seat just lifts off. To check the battery take-off the R/H sidepanel and the battery is accessable, the toolbox is just below the battery & panel. The fuse box is behind the L/H sidepanel.

The CB250rs deluxe with the electric start was just a sales gimmick, extra weight for a tempramental button, it's easier to kick into life.

[xwhatsit]

Cheers T.W.R., thanks for the info. I was having a look around before and came across this website -- it's been taken down now, but I could get it through Google cache. Link: http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:O...d=3&lr=lang_en

It says to use a DR8ES-L plug -- I take it I only need a standard copper-core plug, not some iridium/platinum job? Also it lists the gap as 0.7mm.

So leave the choke alone then? When I pull it all the way out it pops back (mostly) in anyway. I'll try with just a teensy bit of choke. Haha yes I know about the pegs... although I did try starting it once or twice with it out and thinking `cor! Is the decompression lever working?' and then quickly realising what an idiot I am lol.

Ah yes. I see the two bolts hidden away under the pillion bars. Bit of a pain in the arse, I won't pull it off tonight, I don't think there's much room to put stuff there anyway. Lol now I got to work out how to pull the bloody sidecovers off hahaha! I am a brainless twit haha. Is there a release? One of the fastenings holding the right sidecover has already broken and although it's secure it sort of moves a bit and I don't want to break the other fastenings the same way.

T.W.R. I have to say, that is an impressive memory! I think I know why though... I can see that a rider becomes as familiar with their bike as the back of their hand. Looking forward to getting to know my bike.

Thanks,

-Tom

[T.W.R]

It says to use a DR8ES-L plug -- I take it I only need a standard copper-core plug, not some iridium/platinum job? Also it lists the gap as 0.7mm.

So leave the choke alone then? When I pull it all the way out it pops back (mostly) in anyway. I'll try with just a teensy bit of choke. Haha yes I know about the pegs... although I did try starting it once or twice with it out and thinking `cor! Is the decompression lever working?' and then quickly realising what an idiot I am lol.

Ah yes. I see the two bolts hidden away under the pillion bars. Bit of a pain in the arse, I won't pull it off tonight, I don't think there's much room to put stuff there anyway. Lol now I got to work out how to pull the bloody sidecovers off hahaha! I am a brainless twit haha. Is there a release? One of the fastenings holding the right sidecover has already broken and although it's secure it sort of moves a bit and I don't want to break the other fastenings the same way.

T.W.R. I have to say, that is an impressive memory! I think I know why though... I can see that a rider becomes as familiar with their bike as the back of their hand. Looking forward to getting to know my bike.

Thanks,

-Tom

Was close with the plug not bad for almost 20yrs. the plug DR8ES-l is just a resistor type plug nothing fancy.

Just a bit of choke at a cold start is enough, about 1/4 pull should be enough. Nothing when the engine is warm. Decompressor levers are for ninnies

The plastic covers have 3 stubs on the inner side that recess into rubber grommets on the frame, they are fragile beasts so just pull gently at each point, bottom 1st then top front then the rear point last. The seat hasn't got any other clips just the bolts and a tongue that sits in a housing, just undo the bolts & lift and pull towards the rear.

Got great memories of my CB almost lived on it and clocked up a shitload of Kms in the time I had it. You'll have a ball