Military Question

[oldrider]

Ever wonder how it would affect your accuracy if the pigs and deer started firing back?

I must admit that that is a "very" good point you make but I was not really thinking about that aspect, probably because I have not been in that situation, thank goodness.

There is nothing more to add to that from me is there! accepted!

I do have the utmost respect and gratitude for those that have been and are in action on our behalf. Cheers John.

[sAsLEX]

With the IW Styer we were trained to fire in bursts of 3-4 rounds, both for accuracy and conservation of ammo.

With the C9 LSW you pretty much hold the trigger until the belt runs out or nothing moves anymore.... same with the 50cal.

Why would you do that with the C9 your rounds would be well off target, short bursts is what I was taught!

And for accuracy and conservation of ammo firea round at a time.

[Biff]

Travel light.Travel fast.

Bang bang.
Bang bang.

Unless it's an MP5 - mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

But it depends on what you're packing and what you're up against. Conserving ammo is key. Chances are if you get rummbled once, there's more gooks on the way.

Hollywood shmollywood.

And as for those so-called freakin SAS books - crock of shite most of them. Allegedly.

[pritch]

There just seem to be too many bullets fired.

Quite apart from "reconaissance by fire" which uses a lot of ammunition only vaguely directed. A large amount of outgoing fire is probably just designed to stop the other guys getting too creative. I seem to recall that there are statistics available as to how many thousands of rounds are fired to score one hit. It's too long ago to remember the detail but it would be many thousands.

[Steam]

Wow, who woulda known there were all these ex-soldiers on here? I hope all you old guys are going to come out of retirement to defend us when we finally get overrun by the 3rd world hordes.
I tried to join up but I have asthma and thick glasses, so no dice.

[Street Gerbil]

What sort of weapon and how big were the clips?

It was the Broom AKA long-barreled M16 w/ standard 30 round clips. I don't recall dirt being a problem. Sand, on the other hand, gets everywhere anyway but luckily it goes out just as well as it goes in.

I understand that taping clips in reverse (ie. one is upside down until you need it) doesn't always work because it allows sand and dirt to enter the open magazine.

Since IDF never got the springy thingy that keeps two clips together, people had to improvise. I designed a high-tech assembly using an eraser as a spacer and black electricians tape to hold the construction together. I've seen clips taped at 90 degrees one to another (a ridiculous arrangement since it gets caught on everything and upside downs held together by duct tape or rubber bands).

Having said that, Hamas looked a lot more disciplined in southern Lebanon.

<rant>
It's not that they were exceptionally disciplined, it was Israeli government that was not. Husb men just sprayed Katyushas along with bullets (business as usual, they just got bigger guns this time). They wouldn't have survived a properly organized attack (which never came). But then again, Olmert and Peretz were elected to fight their own people, not the professionally trained and properly armed bandits. They would have proven much more efficient in a war against civilians in Yehuda, Shomron, and Golan heights.
</rant>

[2much]

Why would you do that with the C9 your rounds would be well off target, short bursts is what I was taught!

And for accuracy and conservation of ammo firea round at a time.

True, but all I'm saying is if you're using full-auto then fire in short sharp bursts.

Guess we had different GI's

[terbang]

Yup that was the way I was taught to fire an automatic weapon as well. Was the M16 or HBFN (heavy barreled SLR) in those days though the M-16 was not my choice as I'm left handed. On basic training we got to do some training on the old Bren gun (.303). It had a sort of counterbalancing effect with the breech block mechanism that opposed the kick up that the others had. You could literally hold the trigger and empty the whole clip through the same hole.

[SARGE]

Yup that was the way I was taught to fire an automatic weapon as well. Was the M16 or HBFN (heavy barreled SLR) in those days though the M-16 was not my choice as I'm left handed.

i fire ambidextrous ...(i carried my M16 on the left and my Mossberg on the right) .. i am right hand dominant but i fire left handed and always have.. we could swap out a lefty carrier assembly, or roll with a brass deflector.

i went with the carrier assembly.. less to get snagged on shit

[Lou Girardin]

It was the Merkins that coined the term "reconnaissance by fire" in Vietnam.
Basically just spray the area with rounds. It seems that they do the same in Iraq. That's why they have all these 'insurgent kills' of people sitting in their homes.

[SARGE]

It was the Merkins that coined the term "reconnaissance by fire" in Vietnam.
Basically just spray the area with rounds. It seems that they do the same in Iraq. That's why they have all these 'insurgent kills' of people sitting in their homes.

nope .. cuz the bastards are too thick to leave the battlefield..

(and the rags have an uncanny penchant to billet military hardware next to civilian population centers..)

[Lou Girardin]

nope .. cuz the bastards are too thick to leave the battlefield..

(and the rags have an uncanny penchant to billet military hardware next to civilian population centers..)

Yup, Fallujah was one big arsenal.

[SARGE]

Yup, Fallujah was one big arsenal.

yea .. that all started when the rags ripped the civilian contractors to bits, burnt their remains and hung them from the bridge ..

check the stats on how many weapons caches were found in Fallujah?.. how many torture chambers and blood soaked rooms where people were beheaded..


lucky the USMC was kept on a short leash on that one ..

[Dafe]

I've carried a C9 around the bush for two weeks. I was looking for Motu but never found him.
I did get into a mock firefight though. It is the Group gunner that tends to lay down all the suppressing/cover fire.

However, Everybody previously has mentioned letting rip on these group guns.
As I found out, if you hold the trigger down and let the rounds off non-stop........ Your barrel will melt and bend from the heat after approx 120-150 shots.

In any squad, you have a gun group. The Gunner has an ammo loader/barrel changer to assist him.

The group gun still needs to let rip in bursts to try and hold the heat from cooking the barrel.

The IW Steyr (NZ Defence Force rifle) assists this problem by the feature of an "adverse" selector switch on the rifle, however heat isn't normally the issue where a rifle only holds 30 rounds in a mag.

Trust me, No one just holds the trigger down and lets off over 120 continuous rounds without damaging something.

[doc]

It was the Merkins that coined the term "reconnaissance by fire" in Vietnam.
Basically just spray the area with rounds. It seems that they do the same in Iraq. That's why they have all these 'insurgent kills' of people sitting in their homes.

Next time John gets home from Iraq and calls into AMPS ask him about his impressions on the fire discipline of all the so called "Ex SF GODAMS" In his first contact two years ago his side of the vehicle took the hits he got one confirmed and one possible he only saw two of them . The turkey on back with the SAW fired 600 rds and never saw anything the guy beside him never fired because he couldn't GET THE WINDOW TO COME DOWN.... I ask ya he also reckons they all complain about not enough "trigger time" but none of them want to go down to Bagdad. And as soon as they loose someone many of them go home, he is always working with newbies. The South Africans are tops though, but face jail time if they go home, Aussies are heros, Kiwis are just investigated for tax evasion.