Exclusion of Motards from F1, F2 & F3: Good or bad?

[scott411]

alot of the problems with the motards seem to be that they take different lines

i think this could be that a lot of motard riders come from a mx background (incl me) where we square corners off, also we do not mind being a bit aggrressive and taking the inside line where it is offered,

someone mentioned a few pages back about setting up a motard to pass and then teh guy haveing the nerve to shove it back up the inside ont eh next corner,

how dare he, not rying to repass someone, he should have just followed me for a bit to learn race lines,

my ass, if some passes me, (on a motard, or a 400, or a 600, or a gp 125 or on a fucken horse) he better have the inside protected in the next corner as to right i am going to try to out brake him, and if he does protect the inside i am going to try and go around him. thats fucken racing,

if i am not allowed to cross enter my motard in other classes thats fine, however if its one bike one class thats the rule for everyone, no bears and f1, no post classics and f3 on your pre 89 400, no f1 and f2 on your 600,

fair enough if comeone is being dangerous black flag him, that what it is thier for,

[Rashika]

In theory Motards should be rapped they're getting excluded

It means there's enough numbers and recognition for their very own class.

yup agreed!
I can understand why they go in other classes when they DONT have their own...same could be said for the 125's, and when buckets are combined with streetstock, we manage and are happy enough to have a race with each other even tho a few of the 'other' bikes get in the way at times...

But when you do have your own dedicated class, and then bitch about not being allowed in with the others in their own dedicated class... quite frankly piss off and leave us to it.
I'd say quite a few people are actually put off going in some of the classes because they know they will have to race with SOME motards who are... quite frankly... damn risky racers.

[Rashika]

fair enough if comeone is being dangerous black flag him, that what it is thier for,

shame they didn't in the Nelson KOP race to the motard with his sidestand dangling down for the entire 10 laps of the race... most of the spectators around me commented on it, but he didn't get flagged by a marshall... I'm guessing a mistake on their part rather than a deliberate avoidance of having to black flag someone

[dangerous]

Have a look again at the pics in this post, then look at a pic of an F1 bike at full lean and tell me which is wider? Foot out makes no real difference to the width......and a motard going sideways is no wider than a sprotbike going sideways.(look at the pic of hayden in gavs avatar for example)
The only real issue is the different lines.....

The way I see it reguardlass if its a foot or a knee... the tard is a taller bike and you generaly sit up right on it hence they take up a lot more room... what Im saying is a road bike cranked over the riders leg/knee is still under the bike (not poking out further in most cases, there are some that have their own style which in my opinion is over kill) and the tard riders are the same the leg/foot dosnt go much past the bike/riders head... but due to there hight it is easyer to run em over... with a leg out that far if the bike let go, its going to brake a bone were as a knee out generaly means a fucking sore knee.

errr, yes it is actually.....

I guess the organisers were catering to the numbers entered?
It is inexcusable that some missed out though, one of the problems is, is lack of experience from the organisers, they only run one race a year, and often get a bunch of newbies who think they are helping. Those guys that have helped in previous years are often more than willing to let others have a go.
But still, if you exclude Motards from other classes, do you exclude 600's from running in F1. The other "problem" is most of those Motards are probably the most expensive bikes on the grid, do they get a bigger say because of this?
I'm not behind the times, D. Do you know how much some of those bikes are worth? Theres some fairly committed guys out there, not sure you should be pissing them off. If they are riding dangerously wave the black flag and exclude them from that race, they'll soon learn!
The other thing is pay extra per class entered, not let people cross enter for no extra fee. If you miss races, you get a refund for your entry fee for that class, might work?

Sorry Gav didnt relise you were talking about the 'good old days' again, my crap remark was aimed at last w/e race.

Yes I know how much some of these guys spend... an the funny thing is look at the poll results, most motard riders want their own class, its a very few people that are not wanting that and it seems to me none cruntly race.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Scott411

You say if you guys can only enter your own class, that we are not allowed to cross enter??

I think you guys are forgetting that the events we are talking about ARE road race meetings, NOT a motard meetings.

Sure you guys run your own event, and if you need extra numbers to make it worth while, let street bikes in. Then YOU can make the rules as to what the streetbikes can and cant do.

if 100 streetbike racers are saying "We dont want you in our class" then there is a reason, and the motards can stay in thier class.

Its not just engine capacity that lets F3 bikes run post classics is it?? Nope.
Im sure if your Motard is Pre 89 im sure they will let you in no worrys.

There is more to cross entering a class than just engine size, maybe MNZ needs to Change the rules about what Type of bike can cross enter.

It would be Semi easy to make the rules clear enough about which bikes cant go into a class, lets say F3 (example

" 0- 450cc 4 cylinder 4 strokes 0 - 650cc twin 4 strokes. 0-500 single (excluding bikes bikes that are manufactured for off road use)......

[Hellraiser]

It would be Semi easy to make the rules clear enough about which bikes cant go into a class, lets say F3 (example

" 0- 450cc 4 cylinder 4 strokes 0 - 650cc twin 4 strokes. 0-500 single (excluding bikes bikes that are manufactured for off road use)......

LOL ....... that won't work cause there are now purpose build motards which have not been designed for off road use

[Sketchy_Racer]

Yeah, and they are whats going to be the bikes that ruin the 'cheap' status of motard racing.

I hate it when manufatures do things like that, and just turn another good class into a huge money competition.

If you are referring to the aprilia Vtwins, then i think they could still be excluded, be cause to fit in with FIM rules for motard racing, they have to be able to be ridden on the dirt, which means they are also off road bikes.

But, to be honest its not the 1 or 2 motards that cause a problem, its when over 50% of the feild is made outta them.

Some good points in this thread, and I beleive it would be good if we could get some people Higher up (MNZ) to have a look through the opinions.

-Glen

[scott411]

Scott411


Its not just engine capacity that lets F3 bikes run post classics is it?? Nope.
Im sure if your Motard is Pre 89 im sure they will let you in no worrys.

There is more to cross entering a class than just engine size, maybe MNZ needs to Change the rules about what Type of bike can cross enter.

It would be Semi easy to make the rules clear enough about which bikes cant go into a class, lets say F3 (example

" 0- 450cc 4 cylinder 4 strokes 0 - 650cc twin 4 strokes. 0-500 single (excluding bikes bikes that are manufactured for off road use)......

what i am trying to say is

if we are not allowed to cross enter classes when out bikes are elgibile why should any one else be,

[scott411]

Yeah, and they are whats going to be the bikes that ruin the 'cheap' status of motard racing.
-Glen

motard racing will never be as cheap as MX, with tyres, trye warmers etc it has already got to a similar price to F3

[Rashika]

Scott411

Its not just engine capacity that lets F3 bikes run post classics is it?? Nope.
Im sure if your Motard is Pre 89 im sure they will let you in no worrys.

ha!
Funnily enough there was at least 1 "almost a Motard" bike in post classic last weekend at nelson... but that was the thing, THERE WAS ONLY 1!
not 30% or more as seems to be happening with F3

[Sketchy_Racer]

what i am trying to say is

if we are not allowed to cross enter classes when out bikes are elgibile why should any one else be,

My point is, that your bike is not (as per title of this thread) a Formula bike, so why should you be able to cross enter into the Formula classes??

Cross enter into bears (if elegible) or even post classics (again if elegible)

But motards are NOT a formula bike, so shouldnt be allowed into formula classes, just the same as formula bikes arent allowed into motard.

My point all along, you have your class, Use it.

[NordieBoy]

ha!
Funnily enough there was at least 1 "almost a Motard" bike in post classic last weekend at nelson... but that was the thing, THERE WAS ONLY 1!
not 30% or more as seems to be happening with F3

Yes but Darren's DR400 hardly counts as a motorcycle let alone a Motard
More duct tape and noise than what is traditionally envisaged as the minimum components needed to qualify as a motorcycle.

[scott411]

But motards are NOT a formula bike, so shouldnt be allowed into formula classes, just the same as formula bikes arent allowed into motard.

.

what is a formula bike?, my bike is 0-open single cylinder, so it is eligible for F3, isn;t it

i agree with you that one guy entering F1, F2, and F3 on one bike is not on, i also think that it is stupid to let 600 race the f1 class, (like bernard team did at wanganui even tho they had r1's sitting in the pits)

[Sketchy_Racer]

ahh,
You see thats where there needs to be a posible change in the rules to cleary state what is a motard.

Nothing wrong with 600s in F1 (not at the nats though) alot of 600s are faster than quite a few of the 1000 guys.

Same i recon that SV650s are fine to go into F2. Cant see why not.

Dunno about 125GP bikes in F2.... At a club level, yeah i guess thats ok. (i would say that though)

[scott411]

but it takes more skill to ride a 1000 quick than to ride a 600 quick (thats why most people are faster on 600's), let the f1 guys race their big bikes agaisnt each other,

if it is good enough for the 600's to be elgible 2 classes (F2 and F1) why not let the motards ride the 2 classes they are eligible for