Safety vests

**gijoe1313** · 4th January 2007, 14:36

Aye, I do have one - usually only wear it for the long night sojourns or when I'm doing some long touring, usually I have gear stashed on the tail so the vest can't be seen from behind. At night, I do notice the cars slowing down when the lights get onto it (same design as the biker popos!)

I don't generally wear it for my day to day riding however

mebbe I should get a white helmet as well just to wear with it ...

**Tricia1000** · 5th January 2007, 07:15

I wear a reflective vest. Well it isn't really a vest as such. Most of it is just a black mesh, but it has two pink stripes, one going over each shoulder. I have always worn a reflective vest of one description or another, including the police type, (which I use when I have a student, who is new to riding.)
For those who prefer black, on black on black, i.e. no reflective jacket: A good reflective jacket will make you more visible on the road, increasing your profile. It will also keep road dirt off your motorbike jacket.
If you are ever unfortunate enough to be lying on the road or beside the road,(possibly injured) on an unlit or poorly lit road at night and hear the noise of a car approaching at high speed you may have just enough to time to uestion the wisdom of wearing black clothing in the dark.
Just my 2 cents worth

**MyGSXF:Me** · 5th January 2007, 12:53

Originally Posted by Back Fire

if they cant see a big hunk of metal with a bright headlight and a scrawny gangly guy hanging off it why would a orange or yellow or what ever vest make a diff??

About 4 years ago in Tasman, near Nelson.. there was a horriffic accident.

The bike was whopping great XS1100..WITH a sidechair attached.. the dad was riding, mum in the sidechair, & daughter (mid 3oish) on the pillion seat. Middle of the day, on an open straight piece of road, lovely day, bike lights were on. The driver of the car did NOT SEE them.. did a u turn right in front of them & they hit the car side on.. mum & dad both spent months in hospital both with shattered pelvis's & legs.. & their lovely daughter DIED on the scene...

& you wonder HOW a car wouldn't see you.. let alone NOT see a bloody great machine ladened up like that..???

maybe if they had vests on.....

**Jimmy B** · 5th January 2007, 13:40

Yeah I agree with Tricia1000 and MyGSXF

My last 2 bikes were Black/Charcoal and Black/Red respectively. I wore Black leathers with a Black Helmet...Cool aye....

Fast forward and shock me if my latest bike isnt Black on Black. The diffrenece this time is I am a Bloke with a wife and young kid and all sorts of previuosly ignored aspects suddenly have relevance, like the colour of my gear. I have a Shift leather jacket in gunmetal silver with reflective strips, a silver helmet and red/silver bum bag to carry my gear. Pants and boots are still Black Leather but thats how it worked out.

BY virtue of riding a bike I know that I am hard to see or appear further away at the best of times, let alone out of the sun, but low light is the one that really sh*ts me, hopefully the lighter gear makes this slightly better, but you know how it is with some riders, Black will always be the new Black and I dont think this will change.

**James Deuce** · 5th January 2007, 14:09

Every decent cordura jacket has reflective panels these days, including the type that look like a black pebbled surface. I wasn't sure how good the little black dots worked until Hitcher took a photo of me on the R6 the night I picked it up. Blow me down if they don't provide a blinding reflection!

I think the safety vests are a pain in the neck. The don't breathe and they flap about. There are plenty of motorcycle oriented solutions that don't involve looking like an aging BAB or a Cop. Apologies to aging BABs and Cops.

**Jimmy B** · 5th January 2007, 14:14

Originally Posted by Jim2

There are plenty of motorcycle oriented solutions that don't involve looking like an aging BAB or a Cop. Apologies to aging BABs and Cops.

You're welcome no offence taken

**Swoop** · 5th January 2007, 21:42

I notice in the UK bikemag, that there are a couple of bikers who have modified their yellow reflective vests...
They now sport a large printed word across the back POLITE.
Coupled with a white helmet, quite a lot of cages get out of their way...

**Nasty** · 6th January 2007, 07:35

I wear a vest ... I look like a rolling lemon - bought it from the safety NZ shop .. doesn't flap around as it is a good fit and zips up rather than velcro .. but the truth of the matter is that I am seen ... It scares the bejesus out of me that someone will not see me .. at least this way I know if I get hit they are really using me for target practice!!

**Maha** · 6th January 2007, 07:41

Originally Posted by placidfemme

I was just wondering... do you think they actually help you?

Yes Tammy, they must help..........

No Tammy, i think it will make you look........Gay.......

**James Deuce** · 6th January 2007, 10:09

Originally Posted by Nasty

I wear a vest ... I look like a rolling lemon - bought it from the safety NZ shop .. doesn't flap around as it is a good fit and zips up rather than velcro .. but the truth of the matter is that I am seen ... It scares the bejesus out of me that someone will not see me .. at least this way I know if I get hit they are really using me for target practice!!

You could be riding naked and you will still hear, "I didn't see her", while you're groveling on the ground in agony.

You ARE invisible. Never ride anywhere on a motorcycle with the expectation that other road users (including motorcyclists) have seen you. They can't see you, the safety vest doesn't help. Please tell me that you aren't riding with the expectation that the hi-vis vest means that people can see you?

Motion Camouflage afflicts all motorcyclists and is why practically every motorcycle T-Bone accident includes the words, "The motorcyclist was speeding".

Don't casually accept what I am saying either, with a blithe acceptance comment but really thinking, "My vest will save me."

Other road users aren't out to kill you (with a few exceptions). They CAN'T see you. They aren't trained to, they have no experience of what you experience in terms of acceleration and maneuverability, they don't expect to see you, and they don't see you as a threat to their physical selves because you are smaller than them.

Always ride like you have to take responsibility for everything going on around you.

**kaz** · 31st July 2007, 20:48

Originally Posted by Jim2

You could be riding naked and you will still hear, "I didn't see her", while you're groveling on the ground in agony.

You ARE invisible. Never ride anywhere on a motorcycle with the expectation that other road users (including motorcyclists) have seen you. They can't see you, the safety vest doesn't help. Please tell me that you aren't riding with the expectation that the hi-vis vest means that people can see you?

Motion Camouflage afflicts all motorcyclists and is why practically every motorcycle T-Bone accident includes the words, "The motorcyclist was speeding".

Don't casually accept what I am saying either, with a blithe acceptance comment but really thinking, "My vest will save me."

Other road users aren't out to kill you (with a few exceptions). They CAN'T see you. They aren't trained to, they have no experience of what you experience in terms of acceleration and maneuverability, they don't expect to see you, and they don't see you as a threat to their physical selves because you are smaller than them.

Always ride like you have to take responsibility for everything going on around you.

I agree with you, Jim2. But I don't think this conversation is really about whether a hi-viz vest (or anything else) will always protect you in all situations. I think people are talking about REDUCING the risk, where you possibly can (knowing the risk can't be eliminated, unless you choose not to ride of course). I also think there's a false dilemma here: reducing the risk with hi-viz gear does not have to come at the expense of smart riding, good skills, knowledge about motion camouflage - which are also important, as you say. But why not have good skills, knowledge about risks, AND hi-viz gear?

I had to argue hard to get the people in Unnamed Shop to order my white helmet (they only had black and blue in store). The guys tried to tell me it wouldn't save me from bad car drivers and there was no reason to order a white helmet. Fair enough. But I think it can make a difference in some situations with some bad car drivers (or even some good ones who just make a mistake). So my thinking was: why not at least eliminate those situations? But I acknowledge that it's easy for me since I'm not attached to wearing black or having a particular image. And it seems to be easier for women as there are more colours available in our jackets (mine is light blue)

**James Deuce** · 31st July 2007, 21:12

A hi viz vest does not increase your visibility. If it did, 2 vehicle (or more) motorcycle accident stats would be dropping, not rising. There is nothing you can do to make other road users "see" you.

Other road users need to be trained, not threatened with legislation, fines, or billboards, and taught about the things they need to look for. Until that is done you need to take FULL responsibility for avoiding issues on the road. What you wear has little to do with whether you will be seen or not.

How many people here had a driving instructor teach them things like, "If a ball rolls out of a driveway either stop or reduce your speed dramatically because 9 times out of 10 there's a kid following"?

I'd venture that common sense nuggets of information like that have evaporated in the face of needing specific information to pass a scratchy test.

**kaz** · 31st July 2007, 21:31

Originally Posted by Jim2

A hi viz vest does not increase your visibility. If it did, 2 vehicle (or more) motorcycle accident stats would be dropping, not rising. There is nothing you can do to make other road users "see" you.

Other road users need to be trained, not threatened with legislation, fines, or billboards, and taught about the things they need to look for. Until that is done you need to take FULL responsibility for avoiding issues on the road. What you wear has little to do with whether you will be seen or not.

How many people here had a driving instructor teach them things like, "If a ball rolls out of a driveway either stop or reduce your speed dramatically because 9 times out of 10 there's a kid following"?

I'd venture that common sense nuggets of information like that have evaporated in the face of needing specific information to pass a scratchy test.

I think we're mostly agreeing - except about whether hi-viz gear makes any difference (you're saying you think it doesn't; I'm saying I think it does). I don't think you can "make" people see you either but I think you can make it easier for them to see you in some circumstances, just like you can make it harder for them to see you in some circumstances.

As to your commonsense driveway and ball example, yes to that! That's something my dad taught me actually and it has paid off so many times (on two wheels and on four wheels, even on six wheels! Ditto for seeing a cat run out of a driveway - often there's a dog following or a kid) I've had my car license for 20 years, a HT license for 6 years, and - more recently - a bike license. For all license tests I have been shocked by how stupid the multi-choice answers (and some of the questions) are. I even said so to the test administrators (I'm sure they didn't care though).