Graeme William Burton in custody

[Finn]

The Rt Hon Helen Clark

There's nothing right nor honourable about that bitch. Admittedly, she has one quality the UN admires. Corruption.

[Pixie]

Or maybe the jails need Saunas units installed

Yeah, like the ones they had at Belsen

[jrandom]

There's nothing right nor honourable about that bitch.

Would you like a paper towel to wipe off the spittle when you're finished?

[Hitcher]

I put it to you that your desire for restorative justice exists only as a necessary prop for your benevolent self-image. Restorative justice may be desirable on a selfish level, but it is no more morally justifiable than masturbation.

Mmmmm. Masturbation...

And what is wrong with benevolence, even if we had a "perfect" judicial system? And "morals" too are a function of time, place and world view. Not all moral roads lead to Rome, particularly when it comes to the premeditated killing of people.

[Paul in NZ]

Whereas I would argue that a "civilised" society deserves a justice system, rather than a revenge system, and that state-sanctioned murder has no place in restorative justice.

Revenge?

From the trusts web site... Restorative Justice is a way of responding to the offence and its effects that makes the people affected by the crime the focus. Restorative Justice creatively addresses the trauma of crime by recognising that victims have many needs which are not met in the current system. While victim pain is a primary concern of restorative justice, victim and offender restoration is a priority. Offenders are made accountable at face-to-face meetings with the victim. Support people are invited who assist the parties in achieving reconciliation.

Restorative Justice tries to achieve accountability, restoration, and reintegration

All very nice for property crimes or disorderly behaviour but this brand of justice won't restore to lives of two innocent people BUT it could have prevented the second and will definately prevent the 3rd. I do not advocate lopping the heads off all and sundry but some crimes and criminals are beyond the pale. This man is not 'human'...

[jrandom]

And what is wrong with benevolence, even if we had a "perfect" judicial system?

Not wrong; just unnecessary. Also costly, therefore of dubious value.

And "morals" too are a function of time, place and world view.

Piffle. The human condition is a constant, and truth is an invariable. Your statement, there, isn't even proper moral relativism; it's just a cop-out.

... particularly when it comes to the premeditated killing of people.

As I said, you don't like the idea of executing murderers. You find it, in fact, downright distasteful. That doesn't mean it's not right and necessary.

My three-year-old son doesn't like broccoli.

He will, I hope, eventually learn to rationalise the fact that that's just tough shit.

[James Deuce]

Can't have it both ways. Re-institute the death penalty and you have a very good chance that 1 in 3 people you execute are innocent of the crimes they have been convicted of. Not necessarily innocent people, but innocent of the crimes they are executed for. The moral framework that used to support the death penalty was as black and white as the judiciary that ran it.

That isn't the case anymore. Change is a constant. Adapt or die. Which is what Darwin really said.

There's been a lot of stuff posted on KB that could be regarded as seditious, and in a couple of cases downright treasonable. The both used to be punishable by death in the "Home" Isles.

So what is it folks? Execute all criminals for all crimes? Or none? There isn't any middle ground, despite what the liberal losers and kooky conservatives will claim. Some of you blokes flatting better stop stealing toilet paper from work, and I had better stop absently walking off with other people's pens.

[Finn]

Anyway, if you're not paying tax, you can doubly fuck off in terms of this debate.

Nice one you little conformist. I prefer to decide where my money is spent.

[Hitcher]

As I said, you don't like the idea of executing murderers. You find it, in fact, downright distasteful. That doesn't mean it's not right and necessary.

My three-year-old son doesn't like broccoli.

He will, I hope, eventually learn to rationalise the fact that that's just tough shit.

I wish you every success in converting your son to the joys of brassicas and me to the wisdom of state-sanctioned murder.

[Finn]

A short flightless Bird. How appropriate.

Fortunately, I wasn't burdened with the Kiwi gene. However, my Grandmother was a little short.

[scumdog]

.

Equal and opposite reactions. For the Dummy to fly back, the marksman would have to as well.

A shitload of people on this site are totally unaware of THAT law of physics going by their comments on fire-arms, alone let alone on riding incidents.....

[jrandom]

Nice one you little conformist.

Guilty as charged, when it comes to pragmatically integrating with the society I find myself in.

I put it to you that you're no 'nonconformist'; you're just a self-obsessed blowhard looking for a way of justifying your generic anger.

I prefer to decide where my money is spent.

Good chap. Now go argue with someone with whom you've established at least some moral authority.

[scumdog]

Fortunately, I wasn't burdened with the Kiwi gene. However, my Grandmother was a little short.

So in essence you are 'short-bred'???????

[jrandom]

I wish you every success in converting your son to the joys of brassicas and me to the wisdom of state-sanctioned murder.

I plan on converting neither of you.

I'm just going to force my son to eat the broccoli for a few more years so that Mrs Fish doesn't glare at me too hard over the dinner table.

But at least you provide an indulgent foil for my random pseudo-intellectual spouting. Number One Son just wanders off and asks for SpongeBob.

[doc]

Historically jails were simply a place to hold a person until they were executed. I think the next step was for holding them until they could be transported. Then the PC bastards come up with a new word called rehabilitation. How do you rehabilitate some one who has crossed to the dark side. You remove him .Permanently at the lowest possible cost.