Firefighters to ram vehicles in way

[Colapop]

Sounds like something out of that firefighting movie... the one with that guy in it and does that chick on the top of the fire engine...

[The Stranger:Me]

If you were allowed to 'remove cars forcibly', and you were in an extreme hurry, and you had an extremely grunty 18 ton fire appliance, wtf would you do?

What would I do?

Would consider the situation first, but ramming would be my last resort.

Ramming, unless you could get a good angle is likely to take longer and achieve less with greater damage, not only to the vehicle, but the fire truck.
If the angle were good, it is probable it didn't need to be rammed anyway.

The other day a car went under a fire truck and lifted the wheels off of the ground. Pretty well fucked the fire truck from moving - and the car of course. Point is, you may have 18 tons, but you can still be stuffed up by 1.5 tons.

[imdying]

I've seen them shunt cars off of hydrants in the commercial district here in Chch, was pretty easy for them

Ramming has such vicious connotations... having seen them in action, I'm picking it'll be a move tight up against vehicle, foot down on accelerator. Either way, it'll be all bad for the average plastic car

[RT527]

I wonder why no one has contacted the insurance companies for their response? If the vehicle is parked legally and is not blocking normal traffic flow (ie, not fire trucks), would they be keen to pay out or would they start seeking compo from the fire service?

Sorry but there is no come back under section 28 of the fire services act...powers of the chief fire officer or for the time being in charge of the brigade an officer or firefighter can be Deemed in charge until relieved.

There are certain powers in there which we may use in an emergency and removing property/people forcibly if interfering in an incident is one of them.

no one likes to see it happen and I remember an incident where a prominent Lawyer parked his car over a hydrant of which we couldn't get our hoses to, so being the entrepreneurs that we are , we ran a percolated(allows water to seep from them to protect the hose in a fire) feeder hose through one window and out the other When he came to get his care it was full of water....he said you cant do that...officer replied , section 28 mate, he turned around and walked away.

[RT527]

Nothing that looks like a quote from a fire fighter indicates the cars would be rammed does it?
Removed forcibly does not necessarily imply ramming.
They could carefully put the truck against it and push, connect a rope and drag a vehicle with the truck, or maybe get out of the machine and lift a car out of the way. There are many ways a car can be forcibly moved that doesn't involve ramming.

And how long is that going to take...too friggan long when a fire doubles in intensity every 60 secs, you dont have time sometimes to be gentle, its like the big master keys we have on the trucks , fits any lock....

[RT527]

If you were allowed to 'remove cars forcibly', and you were in an extreme hurry, and you had an extremely grunty 18 ton fire appliance, wtf would you do?

Only trucks in the fire service anywhere near the 18 tonne mark would be a bronto....turntable ladder or one of the swinglift trucks.

Most city brigade trucks tare in at 8 to 9 tonne ,, add 1350 litres of water and equipment + people and they might be lucky to hit 13 tonne all up, 14 tonne is the max you can go on 2 axle trucks.

Some of the rural/urban brigades have smaller trucks but 2000 litres of waterand go to maybe 9 -10 tonne max

[Timber020]

We used to move cars parked in the "wrong" place with a couple of trolley jacks. one lifts the front wheels, one lifts the rear wheels and you can just roll the car anywhere you want on the jacks. Firemen will probably do the same thing, if they have time.

[Firefight]

When I lived in a community with water tanks - if the Fire Service needed more water than the tanker truck,they would plug into the nearest household tank....and they didn't refill it either! I guess if you hated your neighbour you would be pissed off,but most would be happy if their water saved a life,or the house.

A normal situation and covereded by section 30 of the Fire service Act

..."subject to the overall requirments of the Regional Controller of Civil Defence blah blah blah.. every fire brigade, defence fire brigade and industrial brigade shall , free of charge.


b) Have the use of all water in any river, creek , stream, water course, channel, lake ,lagoon, well , tank or other soruce of water supply whatsoever for the purpose of extingushing any fire... etc etc.


When we lived in Rodney in the good old days b4 reticulated water it was normal for the local Fire Service to take water from domestic water tanks, I recall that often people would meet the first arriving fire truck and offer the use of their water from the house tanks.

It was normal for the local council (RDC)to pay for the water carriers to refill the tanks after the fire.

[Firefight]

Sorry but there is no come back under section 28 of the fire services act...powers of the chief fire officer or for the time being in charge of the brigade an officer or firefighter can be Deemed in charge until relieved.

As you say section 28 /4 of the Fire service Act gives a wide range of powers to allow Fire crews to do the job they have been called to do, most are specific and detailed for example

28/4 (C) "may take any equipment required to be used into, through, or upon any land, building or structure where he deems it neccesarry for the purposes of carrying out his duties"

Another useful section 28/4(n) "may generally do all other things that are necessary for protecting life or proprty in dealing with the fire or other emergancy".

with regard to Liability,, Section 43 of the Fire service act covers this....

"No action or proceeding shall be bought against the Crown or Commission or employee or against any Fire brigade or member of a fire brigade ......etc etc
blah blah blah.

however there is a small clause in this section that states
" nothing in this section shall relieve any of them against or in any way effect liability for any damage to property caued by or in connection with the use of any fire engine or other fire service vehicle for transport purposes.

This clause is to cover the event of a fire engine involved in a motor vehicle accident either responding to a call or on other fire service business

It could also be used against the driver in the case of damage caused by shuntting as described at the start of this thread, however such a claim is unlikely to be successful.

Hope this is of interst.

F/F

[Firefight]

the normal way to move cars blocking the way is for two staff to "bounce the car ""

This can be easily done with two staff pushing up and down rapidly at rear bumper, once some moumentum is gained (4-5 times) upward lift is applied to the bumper and a side push, this will normally move vehcile sideways about 300mm at a time, no damage to car ,and only takes a few seconds to achive.


F/F

[R6_kid:Me]

the normal way to move cars blocking the way is for two staff to "bounce the car ""

This can be easily done with two staff pushing up and down rapidly at rear bumper, once some moumentum is gained (4-5 times) upward lift is applied to the bumper and a side push, this will normally move vehcile sideways about 300mm at a time, no damage to car ,and only takes a few seconds to achive.


F/F

you know what everyone is going to do when they get drunk...

[avgas]

Northshore city council are dicks. Their engineers are lazy - they dont even pre-inspect anythings these days.
Worked on a job once where the council engineer said we were to replace a straight pipe. Half way through the job we had to f up the site cos he didn't even look at the drawings and we had hit the middle of the 'Z' pipe.
12 weeks later, $200,000 later - all because a) he didn't look at the council drawings and b) he didn't pre-inspect the job.
Wouldn't surprise me if the new subdivisions have poor roading, poor plumbing etc

[McJim]

the normal way to move cars blocking the way is for two staff to "bounce the car ""

This can be easily done with two staff pushing up and down rapidly at rear bumper, once some moumentum is gained (4-5 times) upward lift is applied to the bumper and a side push, this will normally move vehcile sideways about 300mm at a time, no damage to car ,and only takes a few seconds to achive.


F/F

Yep - I've seen this being done on narrow streets in Glasgow - the Strathclyde Fire Brigade are quite accomplished at this. I'm sure the Strathclyde Fire Brigade's Bronto Skylift weighed in at 26 tons though - mind you might be a bigger one since the buldings in glasgow are farken tall)thought the Scania Fire engines were only about 7-8 tons fully laden.

I think forcibly removed probably means bounced around in this instance not rammed by a very expensive piece of fire fighting equipment!

[elle-f]

The problem is is that these cars are parked legally. I guess what they will do is put yellow lines so nobody can park. Thank GOD i don't have to worry about parking anymore! I have no tolerance either for those that park on fire hydrants - if they have to shunt their car out of the way- good on them!

[SwanTiger]

Hey that sounds like a lot of fun, I am joining up with our local volly brigade and there are heaps of wankers around here that park cars down streets and leave little room for anything.