Bucket update

[CM2005]

wat? if i understood that i might be able to laugh at it...? lol.

[gav]

Now I dont know if you know what it means but Blueprinting is bringing the engine up to manafactures (sp) specs, as when bikes are built ports dont match up properly etc and you fix that,

And is that all that Blueprinting involves is it?

[speedpro]

Piston to bore clearance, deck height, squish clearance and width and angle, port height and alignment, combustion chamber volume, ignition timing, all sorts of stuff to do with the reed intake, bearing clearances, crank end float and clearances, clutch condition and operation, lubricants and levels, crank balance factor and piston weight, crankcase volume, plus a whole swag of other stuff.

Most of that gets changed if you want to bucket race so actually blueprinting the motor is pointless because then it will be all wrong for the intended purpose.

But that's OK as Ivan won't have done any of this. To make a motor that hauls arse you have to measure every single thing (which he hasn't done and won't do), then modify it to ideal specs for the intended purpose (which he doesn't know as he won't read the books), and then remeasure the whole lot again just to make sure you didn't screw it up.

Ful time with all the gear it takes me about a day to measure

[Ivan]

ummmmmmmmmmmmm

dont know were you get these facts from,
I do read the books no I havent done bottom end but i matched the whole top end bar piston as the piston is to old

[Sketchy_Racer]

God you are grueling ivan.

and just so plainly ignorant so often.

[speedpro]

ummmmmmmmmmmmm

dont know were you get these facts from,
I do read the books no I havent done bottom end but i matched the whole top end bar piston as the piston is to old

So , , , the squish clearance is ??? and the combustion chamber volume is ??? and the compression ratio is ???. And also is that the swept volume to trapped volume or some other method or value? Have you actually measured the stroke? Quite often the stroke is not exactly as advertised due to tolerances when the crank is manufactured. It can be enough to make a differance when you are calculating compression ratio, especially once you get it up round 15:1.

You "matched" the top end? What does that mean? You didn't actually measure anything I bet.

Of course if you can't give out that info due to performance secrets and that sort of thing I will understand.

[Ivan]

sorry bout that not feeling well and just got agro real fast hardly any sleep the last few nights and constantly being sick


What I mean by the top end I mean I removed all the lips on the barrel and made sure everything matched properly and no gaskets over hung into the transfers andthe manifolds matched each other.

Like I said sorry if I sounded agro didnt mean to sound like a arrogent prick

[Ivan]

Piston to bore clearance, deck height, squish clearance and width and angle, port height and alignment, combustion chamber volume, ignition timing, all sorts of stuff to do with the reed intake, bearing clearances, crank end float and clearances, clutch condition and operation, lubricants and levels, crank balance factor and piston weight, crankcase volume, plus a whole swag of other stuff.

Most of that gets changed if you want to bucket race so actually blueprinting the motor is pointless because then it will be all wrong for the intended purpose.

But that's OK as Ivan won't have done any of this. To make a motor that hauls arse you have to measure every single thing (which he hasn't done and won't do), then modify it to ideal specs for the intended purpose (which he doesn't know as he won't read the books), and then remeasure the whole lot again just to make sure you didn't screw it up.

Ful time with all the gear it takes me about a day to measure

Well Speedpro one day I may just get you to give me a hand with my engine,
I am serious about this engine and I want to get it going real well so it Hauls ass and yes I admire yours and Daves tuning knowledge,
I dont mean to type arrogent its just how it comes out I type and dont think it will annoy anyone one but it must at times.
I do things at the momment to see if they work.

[Skunk]

I do things at the moment to see if they work.

What everyone's been trying to tell you is read the books. It'll show you the theories and practices that work and how they work together.
Ideas have been tried that seemed pretty good at the time but are no longer used. Books will tell you why, and what ideas replaced them.
It'll save you years...

[Ivan]

yeah exactly,

I do listen,



I am reading the book right now as well.

Im just now at a desision to make the port wider? or make it higher?

Making it higher alters porttiming sometimes for the good some for the bad

Wideining it makes the power better and lets the gases out but then makes more of a chance of grabbing rings and yes I have read the book on this.

[speedpro]

The books are a good start. I still have only ever measured time area angles only once. Unfortunately if you ever get REALLY serious you'll need to fork out for some software and then upgrade it every year at least. At that point it's better to get someone with the software to do all that sort of mucking round for you. I've also come to the conclusion that it's worth the money to get someone like Pete Sales from Total Motorcycles to do the basic porting. He knows what he's doing and won't go overboard and ruin the barrel.

Thinking back, you mentioned that the piston is worn. The best performance enhancing mod you can do is probably to get a fresh piston for the motor. Aftermarket ones are pretty good prices. Keep the tolerances tight, treat it right and she'll go heaps better. While everything is getting machined it's a good opportunity to optimise squish and compression, and even change combustion chamber shape if needed. I got around 2hp from changing the shape alone on one motor. That was on a sleeved down RGV250 cylinder and head. Those things have disgusting chambers, probably to allow the plugs to be angled to clear the radiator on the front cylinder.

[Ivan]

yeah I might just do that,

Is Pete still doing that stuff?
Just wondering as when I was talking to him he said about his lungs and that from doing all the Dyno work and wondered if porting the fibres of steel in the air would affect him.

Yeah also how manyother KB guys do basic 2 stroke porting? I would be keen on paying someone to do it depending on how much it costs.


The reason I run a old piston is because I want to make sure nothing grabs or nips after we haveworked on it so thatIf I melt or sieze aold piston it aint as bad as doing it to a new one once I get a basic Port job done Ill buy a new piston.

I have a better expansion chamber for my bike will post a picture of it and see what you think. This one can be modified quite alot as well.

[speedpro]

you need to get it bored before you get the porting done as some of the ports are angled and by enlarging the bore you eat into the port and because of the angle the port timing will be altered. You won't melt a piston unless you do somethng stupid. You need to start RICH (real rich) and knock the timing back then sneak up on it. If you run higher compression you will need a YZ80 ignition or similar to get the required advance/retard of the ignition. Otherwise it'll run like a sack of shit down low OR it will blow a piston up high.

[Ivan]

I actually have a KX125 igntion here CDI and Flywheel and stator I want to get it running on my bike so the Advance Retard function works.


Do you have a email for Pete at all?


Actually might get hold of MR Turbo he is his neighbour or something

[speedpro]

I'm not familiar with those ignitions but I'd expect it'd be ideal.