Aresholes con a jury, part two

[SlashWylde]

Ditto Lissa Thx - put very well. With respect - men will never understand what rape does to a woman.

With all due respect, I think the many thousands of men who are rape victims would strongly disagree with that statement.

Society has to get over the notion that rape is a crime that only happens to women. Men are statistically more often the victims of violence than women are, with sexual violence being a component of that.

[Toaster]

Wait on.... How much guts does it take to come forward and say that a "policeman" raped you?

I agree, I am sure there are a lot of women and possibly men who have been sexually assaulted by someone at some point and have not been able to come forward for all the hurt, embarrasment and anguish it could bring them.

Damn those jerks for bringing yet more shame on the police.

[Lissa]

I don't think those complainants are ever charged with anything. Certainly nothing much, at most a "wasting police time".

Well then if it ruins the person they accused life... then they should be charged with more.

... Or, when she starts out willing, and then things go beyond what she anticipated. Which is probably what happened in these cases.

Hmm think you are talking about when a women maybe starts out willing then for whatever reason, guilt, not ready, feels uncomfortable, etc etc she says NO but the guy doesnt listen, and goes on to have sex with her against her will. Kinda sounds like rape.

BTW, men get raped too. Or does that not count?

Of course it counts!!!... Rape isnt gender based. Its just that the majority of people who are raped are Women.... and thats world wide.... esp the Third World countries. Like the 'Indian?" women who was gang raped as a punishment for what her brother had done to someone else. Women who are stoned to death because they let themselves be raped. Could go on and on.. but I wont.

[Guitana]

With all due respect, I think the many thousands of men who are rape victims would strongly disagree with that statement.

Society has to get over the notion that rape is a crime that only happens to women. Men are statistically more often the victims of violence than women are, with sexual violence being a component of that.

Yeah it's called prison BUMSEX or Dirt track riding no offense to the offroader boys!!!
Even worse for a man to take it in the Butty!!!!

[placidfemme]

This is an endless argument. Guilty vs. Innocent. It all boils down to your own personal beliefs and your view of the justice system.

I could go on and state my opinion and view, and in this thread and with this topic and judging by the responses so far, it would be pointless.

Karma will come back and bite them in the asses if they are guilty.

[Lissa]

With all due respect, I think the many thousands of men who are rape victims would strongly disagree with that statement.

Society has to get over the notion that rape is a crime that only happens to women. Men are statistically more often the victims of violence than women are, with sexual violence being a component of that.

You are right.. esp those boys who are preyed on by Paedophiles.... they grow up, usually without having told anyone... it wreaks their lives... makes me If anyone touched any of my children I swear I would ... grrrrr!

[Bykmad]

This is a matter where we (the general public) will never know everything about it. The prosecution was woeful in its attempt to present its case. The complainant could not even identify Rickards from photo's taken around the time or that he was on crutches.The identification of Shipton and Schollum was also very poorly handled. Just one instance of a very poorly handled investigation and Prosecution.
The Jury made a decision on the facts as presented by the Crown Prosecutor (on behalf of the NZ Police) and the Defence Counsels for the defendants.
Its over!!!!!!!! Let it Rest in Peace.

[Damon]

Wait on.... How much guts does it take to come forward and say that a "policeman" raped you? You arent going to accuse someone of rape just because you have a grudge, let alone someone so powerful.... dont you think that her life has been ruined by all this? Do you think it was easy for her to reveal that part of her life. If she was raped dont you think her life was ruined and scarred from that very moment? I take exception to you saying that all a women has to do is Cry Wolf and a mans life is ruined... crap. Yes it has happened before... and those women are usually found out... and charged with whatever.

I just hope this isnt going to stop alot of rape victims from coming forward.... to have to go to trial and look your rapist in the eye... the very person who took away your dignity and your rights. Couldnt think of anything worse... and have the media and the rest of New Zealand judging you because of it.

I'm sorry if i didn't explain myself clearly enough, all i was simply saying is that things are not always how we see them, just because someone said they did it doesn't make their accusation and your limited knowledge of the facts the truth, it certainly wasn't an attack on rape victims.

As for "all a women has to do is Cry Wolf and a mans life is ruined" how can you say it's "crap" and then follow it up with "Yes it has happened before", just because you wouldn't do it doesn't mean another person wouldn't, there are some really nasty people out there and their not just men

[Lissa]

As for "all a women has to do is Cry Wolf and a mans life is ruined" how can you say it's "crap" and then follow it up with "Yes it has happened before", just because you wouldn't do it doesn't mean another person wouldn't, there are some really nasty people out there and their not just men

I meant Crap... as in not to make generalisations that Rape Victims are lying (crying wolf), and that a court is the place to decide whether they are telling the truth or not. Who is on trial... the victim or the rapist? Not getting at you at all.

[marty]

If I was accused of theft and had a history of it wouldn't that be relavent..? It shows a pattern of behaviour.
So a person who has a lifetime pattern of paedophilia, perhaps in and out of jail throughout his life, could face a jury and say "oh no it was a one off accidental mistake' and get a lighter sentence as a result. Back in society within 2 years living in Kumeu perhaps..?

couple of valid points here, but the reality is:

having a history of theft does not necessarily mean you are subsequently guilty of such, however, if you stand up and say 'i am not a thief' your history will be allowed to haunt you.

likewise if you have a lifetime pattern of paedophilia, and say 'oh this was a one off mistake' again, your history will bite.

schollum and shipton never gave evidence (as is their right) as they knew that their history would come up. rickards did give evidence, as he knew that as long as he stayed away from his associations with the other 2, that his criminal history was clean.

if i remember right, rickards tried to get his case heard separately from the other 2, as he didn't want to be tarred with their brush.

[Damon]

I meant Crap... as in not to make generalisations that Rape Victims are lying (crying wolf), and that a court is the place to decide whether they are telling the truth or not. Who is on trial... the victim or the rapist? Not getting at you at all.

Again i'm not attacking rape victims at all, what i'm saying is in this country an accusation can have damaging consequences, in the satement "all a women has to do is Cry Wolf and a mans life is ruined" there is no mention of rape, assult, touching my kids, peeping through windows, packing groceries incorrectly, farting in elevators, simply accusation can have damaging consequences

[marty]

Of course it counts!!!... Rape isnt gender based.

isn't it?

check the crimes act out.

[Damon]

isn't it?

check the crimes act out.

is it?! legaly i mean? i can't be bothered sifting though the act so let us know what it says

[Damon]

from http://www.legislation.govt.nz/brows...t=pal_statutes

[128Sexual violation defined


(1)Sexual violation is the act of a person who—


(a)rapes another person; or


(b)has unlawful sexual connection with another person.


(2)Person A rapes person B if person A has sexual connection with person B, effected by the penetration of person B's genitalia by person A's penis,—


(a)without person B's consent to the connection; and


(b)without believing on reasonable grounds that person B consents to the connection.


(3)Person A has unlawful sexual connection with person B if person A has sexual connection with person B—


(a)without person B's consent to the connection; and


(b)without believing on reasonable grounds that person B consents to the connection.


(4)One person may be convicted of the sexual violation of another person at a time when they were married to each other.]

[Hitcher]

For all of you bleeding hearts out there in La La Land, would you prefer living in a society where cops get sacked or jailed every time anybody makes a complaint against them?

Or for any man who is unfortunate to have a rape charge taken against them to be automatically jailed? ("society" actually holds them guilty anyway, whether they are or not, exactly as is happening with the (former) police officers in this latest case, so who is really the "victim" of "rape"?)

What if Louise Nicholas and the other complainants against the "gentlemen" in question were actually making things up in order to progress an "agenda"? Who should decide who is innocent and who is guilty?

It's all very well being outraged, but consider the evidence put forward, as the juries were required to do in all of these cases, rather than leaping to speculative conclusions.

We're talking about running a system of justice, not TXT voting for Dancing with the Stars.