Akaroa GP faces new hazards

[Berries]

All that stuff about signage.... pertains to what the RCA must or should do. I donÂ’t think that in itself would be enough for a judge to dismissing a speed ticket.
A major part of your problem would be the whole defence based on not enough signs. As to claim that you are not committing an offence as you thought limit was higher is a defacto admission of your speed. And once you “confess” to exceeding limit you really have no defence.

You're wrong. The underlying rural speed limit is 100km/h. If an RCA makes it 80 they need to inform you and they need to repeatedly tell you it is 80 because there are no visual clues to help a driver tell whether it is 80 or 100. Now you have no idea what the speed limit is based on your visuals and the surrounding environment. If I get pinged for doing 100 in an 80 and I didn't know it was an 80 I will be fighting the ticket. It was easy when it was 50 in town, 100 in the country and 70 in the built up bits between. Now, who the hell knows?

You wont get off a ticket if the sign was 50m from its legal position because a judge will tell you the sign is the sign and a member of the public should simply rely on what the sign says rather than some bylaw or gazette notice. If there are no signs, or no repeater signs at the maximum spacing as previously advised by the Agency then a motorist can naturally assume the speed limit is the open road 100km/h limit. That is why they have the requirement for repeater signs every two minutes of travel. To be honest I am not even sure if that is sufficient, the two minute thing was made up by someone in Wellington years ago. No idea if it has ever been tested in court. I am sure it will be with the de factor 80km/h rural speed limit slowly being pushed through, and the 60km/h speed limit on unsealed roads which is bubbling away in the background.

[R650R]

I think your wrong there. With so many lifestyle blocks, degrading of roads it would be wrong to assume all rural roads are 100k these days. There has been ample media coverage of many speed limit reductions.
Ignorance of a relevant law is no defence in court as our legal studies teacher used to love mentioning at high school and she was a former clerk of court herself.
Assuming you live in town you increase your speed from 50k when you see the 100k sign not when you think oh this looks rural.
I can’t think of any route I travel regularly where there are sign s every two minutes of travel.
Of note one of my routes to on work goes from 50k to 80k 200m before a t junction. Now following the stuff on the other page that 80k limit is illegal as it’s less than the specified minimum distance before the next seperate road. The cops could use this in reverse!
I would nearly pay to watch you debate this in court. Because unless it’s a road that youve never travelled before it would be nigh on impossible to claim you were speeding because you didn’t know the limit. And if it’s a road new to you then your failed to pay attention when entering.
Depending on your vehicle you may have satnav which auto alerts posted speed limits also.
Anyhow this is all irrelevant when in a few months Jacinda introduces MyDriver app which will sound alarms and auto fine you for speeding as part of road to zero.

[Gremlin]

I would nearly pay to watch you debate this in court. Because unless it’s a road that youve never travelled before it would be nigh on impossible to claim you were speeding because you didn’t know the limit. And if it’s a road new to you then your failed to pay attention when entering.

The other problem is, with all the new limits, I've encountered quite a few scenarios where speed limit signs are missing, meaning there are roads that have different limits in each direction...

[rastuscat]

Funny how many folk always manage to see the signs which allow them to go faster, but fail to see the ones that tell them to go slower, then grizzle about it.

[jellywrestler]

Funny how many folk always manage to see the signs which allow them to go faster, but fail to see the ones that tell them to go slower, then grizzle about it.

you'd think that the new zealand mapping folks and the speed limit people would be able to talk to each other so GPS data is bang on wouldn't you?

[SaferRides]

Funny how many folk always manage to see the signs which allow them to go faster, but fail to see the ones that tell them to go slower, then grizzle about it.

One possible reason is that the unrestricted sign (black diagonal line) is more obvious that a sign stating a speed.

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[Gremlin]

you'd think that the new zealand mapping folks and the speed limit people would be able to talk to each other so GPS data is bang on wouldn't you?

Some of the GPS tools don't support setting speeds on roads. That said, car tech is moving to the point that it can read speed limit signs for you...

[Berries]

I think your wrong there. With so many lifestyle blocks, degrading of roads it would be wrong to assume all rural roads are 100k these days. There has been ample media coverage of many speed limit reductions.
Ignorance of a relevant law is no defence in court as our legal studies teacher used to love mentioning at high school and she was a former clerk of court herself.

If you are not in an urban area and there are no speed limit signs, and there have been no speed limit signs for lets say 5km, then you can assume that the speed limit is 100km/h because that is what the rules say. If you are not told about the relevant law, ie a different speed limit, then you cannot comply with it. That is not being ignorant, that is not being informed and if you are not informed it cannot be enforced.

I canÂ’t think of any route I travel regularly where there are signs every two minutes of travel.

If the speed limit is not 50 or 100km/h then on part of those routes the speed limit cannot be legally enforced. Oh yes, you may well get a ticket but if the speed limit is not signed as per the rules then it would not stand up in court. It can't, that is the point of the Rule.

Of note one of my routes to on work goes from 50k to 80k 200m before a t junction. Now following the stuff on the other page that 80k limit is illegal as itÂ’s less than the specified minimum distance before the next seperate road.

I am guessing the main road must have an 80km/h speed limit and when you turn on to the side road it becomes 50 after 200m? Nothing wrong with that. See section 3.3 of the 2017 Rule, specifically 3.3(2).

https://nzta.govt.nz/assets/resource...imits-2017.pdf

In fact read it all, you'll learn quite a bit.

[jellywrestler]

Some of the GPS tools don't support setting speeds on roads. That said, car tech is moving to the point that it can read speed limit signs for you...

my gps has a speed sign at the bottom, it goes orange when you exceed it and i think red when over by a fair bit. that's what i use to drive with mostly, but some of the data loaded means the signs aren't always in the right places. Odd as it also registers road works which are in real time, and road closures

[jellywrestler]

One possible reason is that the unrestricted sign (black diagonal line) is more obvious that a sign stating a speed.

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really? the speed signs have a big round red thing, the others don't. That's only one level of change, nowadays there's many different steps before we are allowed an open road sign, and now they even have one beyond the black and white

[jellywrestler]

Some of the GPS tools don't support setting speeds on roads. That said, car tech is moving to the point that it can read speed limit signs for you...

only if it's there, and that's part of the story here, missing signs.

[R650R]

One possible reason is that the unrestricted sign (black diagonal line) is more obvious that a sign stating a speed.

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That sign does not equal no restriction. It’s a Limited Speed Zone which is 100k when road conditions are perfect but the limit drops to 50 or 70? If;
Poor visibility
Bad weather
Congestion with lots of cars bikes or pedestrians about
Cant remember all the factors but safety related....

These used to be used a lot when common sense was a lot more common and local authorities didn’t want to restrict motorists in off peak times. Never mind that back then a cop wouldnt ticket you for 12k over limit at 4am anyway....
Now there’s so much chain of accountability I think authorities are reluctant to use them.

[Berries]

That sign does not equal no restriction. It’s a Limited Speed Zone which is 100k when road conditions are perfect but the limit drops to 50 or 70? If;
Poor visibility
Bad weather
Congestion with lots of cars bikes or pedestrians about
Cant remember all the factors but safety related.....

You are wrong again. A Limited Speed Zone was signed with a sign that had LSZ on it. They have all gone, or at least they should have as they don't exist in legislation any more.

The derestricted sign simply means the national speed limit applies, which is 100km/h.

In the old days Transit started using signs with 100 on them to imply those state highways were safe to travel on at 100km/h. Problem was all the councils then started dropping the derestricted sign and putting 100 signs up as well. If they had left them the government could have simply said the national speed limit is now 80km/h and suddenly those roads would be 80 with no need to change the signs.

The derestricted sign and the 100km/h sign mean exactly the same thing, the speed limit is 100km/h. I have always contended that there is an implied message with the derestricted sign of 'when it is safe' but that is what the 100 sign means anyway.

See page 5 and 6 - https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/reso...section-02.pdf

To say you are or were a professional driver I would have thought you would have a better understanding of the road rules. Is it you doing 70 in the rain on the open road holding everyone up?

[SaferRides]

That sign does not equal no restriction. It’s a Limited Speed Zone which is 100k when road conditions are perfect but the limit drops to 50 or 70? If;
Poor visibility
Bad weather
Congestion with lots of cars bikes or pedestrians about
Cant remember all the factors but safety related....

These used to be used a lot when common sense was a lot more common and local authorities didn’t want to restrict motorists in off peak times. Never mind that back then a cop wouldnt ticket you for 12k over limit at 4am anyway....
Now there’s so much chain of accountability I think authorities are reluctant to use them.

This one:



It really means no speed limit. I wonder how many German tourists have been confused by its use here.

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[Moi]

...
See page 5 and 6 - https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/reso...section-02.pdf
...

Interesting read, thanks for the link.

For the RG-1 sign [any speed from 10 to 90] there is provision for a road marking to be used. Despite a driver's or rider's best efforts it is always possible to miss a speed change, indicated by a sign placed on the side[s] of the road, so why are so few also indicated by a road marking? You are less likely to miss a road marking than a sign on the side of the road.

It's common overseas, so why so few here?

I expect the answer is cost...