My first poll for the NZ public

[bogan]

I'm not the one insisting that it won't work.

No, you're the one insisting it will, that it is loads better, that it can work within the current system. Yet you're not living it, why not? I'm always wary of those who promote an idea but refuse to take it up themselves you see.

[mashman]

No, you're the one insisting it will, that it is loads better, that it can work within the current system. Yet you're not living it, why not? I'm always wary of those who promote an idea but refuse to take it up themselves you see.

You seem to know an awful lot about what I am and aren't doing and what I do and don't believe and how I would and wouldn't go about things... I'll let you finish me off.

[bogan]

You seem to know an awful lot about what I am and aren't doing and what I do and don't believe and how I would and wouldn't go about things... I'll let you finish me off.

Well I'm not wrong am I. And it seems like you're about done again...

[mashman]

Well I'm not wrong am I. And it seems like you're about done again...

Yes, you are. Yes, I am.

[bogan]

Yes, you are. Yes, I am.

In what way? Is it not possible, or are you living it?

[Ocean1]

No. The problem they've got is that the cost of living is rising faster than there is money available for those who need it. There are loads of reports around about it... you'd think people might make the rather obvious connection eh... but nah.

Yeah, there's no shortage of carefully crafted reports that the world is ending, based on the price of turnips per starving vegan.

But if you'd bothered to check the real numbers posted above you'd possibly see why most people see them as the bullshit they are.

Which leaves a few various fuckwits bleating about "the system", which in fact is actually working rather well...

[mashman]

Yeah, there's no shortage of carefully crafted reports that the world is ending, based on the price of turnips per starving vegan.

But if you'd bothered to check the real numbers posted above you'd possibly see why most people see them as the bullshit they are.

Which leaves a few various fuckwits bleating about "the system", which in fact is actually working rather well...

bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaa.

[Brian d marge]

Ubuntu, that's software, not a way of life.

Money Free Party is a political movement, again not people actually living as they would under a money free system.

TVP is still in planning stages for such a society, and I don't think they have implemented on even in small scale yet; but I could be wrong as they do seem the furthest along.

Zeitgeist is pretty much the same as TVP.

Money Free Charter is pretty much the same as Money Free Party.

All of those things are pushing ideas and ideals, ie, this could work but we need more people/time/technology. What I want to see examples of are sub-society's in which money is not a thing, of course it must still be a thing to interact with society as a whole, but within the sub society they can share everything, have anything (including requisitions from outside), simply by living happily and exporting their production. If it is both possible, and beneficial as you say, why is it not done?

I mean example to see how viable it is; show me, don't just tell me. That is how you would convert me, and many others (see aforementioned reasons for why converts are needed). And why are you not one of the ones who is getting to it? why simply spread the ideas and ideal when you have a chance to live them?
Well the off grid part of it , I have experience with, completely off grid untill i came to japan
And will return to off grid asap

The financial side . . . Does need thought

I dont think it will happen on mass as the parasites at the top are 3steps ahead

It may happen small scale under the radar eg northland cash crop

[Brian d marge]

No, it wouldn't. The poverty industry measures poverty as the percentage of population with income less than 60% of median income.

Which is bullshit of course, under that definition you could double everyone's net worth and not change poverty. The only way to reduce relative poverty is to reduce "income inequality", the “solution” is to tax people more and hand out more welfare. Classic socialism.

The problem they've got is that both relative AND absolute poverty has taken a very large and sustained drop in the last few decades, so they have to keep re-inventing poverty definitions to make their spiel even vaguely relevant.

311843

Old socialist bullshit is getting old.
Your correct
Back when i was a lad our german neighbours printed some money

Everyone was a millionaire

All thatgiving people money does is drive up thecost of goods

Soo

We need a new yardstick to which to judge success and then measure any lack of . .

The current jeudaic christian sham aint working

[Brian d marge]

Yeah, there's no shortage of carefully crafted reports that the world is ending, based on the price of turnips per starving vegan.

But if you'd bothered to check the real numbers posted above you'd possibly see why most people see them as the bullshit they are.

Which leaves a few various fuckwits bleating about "the system", which in fact is actually working rather well...
Stop using the parsley .

[Ocean1]

We need a new yardstick to which to judge success and then measure any lack of . .

The current jeudaic christian sham aint working

Who uses money in judging success? Only people that don't know what money is. Including people who use "jeudaic Christian" in attempting to define it.

If it's a sham then you'll have no problem giving all of yours to me. As a yardstick with which to value things it's working somewhat spectacularly well according to relevant recent history.

[Brian d marge]

Who uses money in judging success? Only people that don't know what money is. Including people who use "jeudaic Christian" in attempting to define it.

If it's a sham then you'll have no problem giving all of yours to me. As a yardstick with which to value things it's working somewhat spectacularly well according to relevant recent history.
If you need it

I would be happy to help

I should have use the term currency rather than money but you seem to have understood

When ya shuffle of this mortal coil i am glad you would feel comfort in clutching colored paper . .

[Ocean1]

If you need it

I would be happy to help

I should have use the term currency rather than money but you seem to have understood

When ya shuffle of this mortal coil i am glad you would feel comfort in clutching colored paper . .

Fuck off, I may not be mercenary enough to wish to die owing as much as possible but I'll certainly not be leaving any of my hard earned cash lying around unspent sunshine, there's moderbikes to be purchased and farkled.

[bogan]

Well the off grid part of it , I have experience with, completely off grid untill i came to japan
And will return to off grid asap

The financial side . . . Does need thought

I dont think it will happen on mass as the parasites at the top are 3steps ahead

It may happen small scale under the radar eg northland cash crop

All I'm looking for is it to happen small scale, under the radar, cos if that if possible; and if that is better (these are claims frequently made by the proponents ofc), then it will grow until it has happened on mass scale. Whinging about it not happening on mass or expecting money free parties to ever do something, or even just blabbing on about how good it would be if money wasn't a thing, is just wasting your time. Be that change. It is possible, but you have to work for it. Personally, I think this is why there is so much whinging and not doing, those who want things money free are largely slackers (or at least aware that voluntary uptake will be largely slackers), so need productive members to carry them, thus the attempts to force widespread change instead of just being it.

Those who be that change, often realise the change is simply in you head and carry on happily using money anyway. Think about it, that is why there are no examples, because the whole thing is the example :2thumbsup

[Brian d marge]

All I'm looking for is it to happen small scale, under the radar, cos if that if possible; and if that is better (these are claims frequently made by the proponents ofc), then it will grow until it has happened on mass scale. Whinging about it not happening on mass or expecting money free parties to ever do something, or even just blabbing on about how good it would be if money wasn't a thing, is just wasting your time. Be that change. It is possible, but you have to work for it. Personally, I think this is why there is so much whinging and not doing, those who want things money free are largely slackers (or at least aware that voluntary uptake will be largely slackers), so need productive members to carry them, thus the attempts to force widespread change instead of just being it.

Those who be that change, often realise the change is simply in you head and carry on happily using money anyway. Think about it, that is why there are no examples, because the whole thing is the example :2thumbsup
Its happening
Here . . .japan people often grow share gift food . . Help
The stumbling point is
Once you start to . . . . Completely remove yourself from the clutches of city hall
They start to get bent out of shape and start forcing u to comply
IF you can remain undetected you will be fine
But it puts people off investing effort into structures as these will be removed etc
Becauae if one person does it . . .everyone will do it and the whole of society . .will colapse
Ie the banks wont get their money

[bogan]

Its happening
Here . . .japan people often grow share gift food . . Help
The stumbling point is
Once you start to . . . . Completely remove yourself from the clutches of city hall
They start to get bent out of shape and start forcing u to comply
IF you can remain undetected you will be fine
But it puts people off investing effort into structures as these will be removed etc
Becauae if one person does it . . .everyone will do it and the whole of society . .will colapse
Ie the banks wont get their money

Well you still have to pay taxes etc ofc, not doing that is just contrary to sustainability principles.

[Brian d marge]

Well you still have to pay taxes etc ofc, not doing that is just contrary to sustainability principles.
Contribute to society . .taxes dont have to take the form of money

But we do have a social contact

[bogan]

Contribute to society . .taxes dont have to take the form of money

But we do have a social contact

No, but any contribution can be converted to money for that purpose.

So how does 'city hall' force compliance which makes such a system untenable?

[mashman]

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.” ― Edward L. Bernays

And this was known almost 100 years ago. Perhaps you don't think this is how things work? Entirely your choice, but even a cursory glance at the world mirrors his words.

[5ive]

And this was known almost 100 years ago. Perhaps you don't think this is how things work? Entirely your choice, but even a cursory glance at the world mirrors his words.

But how can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real?

[mashman]

But how can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real?

Eh?..........

[Brian d marge]

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.” ― Edward L. Bernays

And this was known almost 100 years ago. Perhaps you don't think this is how things work? Entirely your choice, but even a cursory glance at the world mirrors his words.
Dig a little deeper with that dodgy basket

[mashman]

Dig a little deeper with that dodgy basket

I have other things to do... can you give me the "quick" version?

[Ocean1]

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ..ords.

That's just what they told you to believe.

[mashman]

That's just what they told you to believe.

Who's they?

[Ocean1]

Who's they?

Tptb. Fucking steeple.

[mashman]

Tptb. Fucking steeple.

In which case yes, they did... just nothing really useful and inherently bullshit, as it turns out.

[Brian d marge]

I have other things to do... can you give me the "quick" version?
Bend over

United friut company and some other american bullying

One thing i liked i thought clever lucky strike wanted to sell more ciggies so he had wonen in the new york parade smoke . . . Wearing green as he had influenced that years fashion color which
Just so happened to be the same color as lucky strike

[5ive]

Bend over

United friut company and some other american bullying

One thing i liked i thought clever lucky strike wanted to sell more ciggies so he had wonen in the new york parade smoke . . . Wearing green as he had influenced that years fashion color which
Just so happened to be the same color as lucky strike

http://media.giphy.com/media/GHycyakNPWSoo/giphy.gif

[Brian d marge]

http://media.giphy.com/media/GHycyakNPWSoo/giphy.gif
I reckon . . . . Dodgy as the day is long

[Ocean1]

Why do we still have extreme poverty when there's 50% more aid given than is required?


Because the definition of poverty changes with the level of income. You could make them all millionaires and the official number of poor wouldn't change a jot.


Of course it would, especially as they're all millionaires and will be able to afford anything that they want.


No, it wouldn't. The poverty industry measures poverty as the percentage of population with income less than 60% of median income.

Which is bullshit of course, under that definition you could double everyone's net worth and not change poverty. The only way to reduce relative poverty is to reduce "income inequality", the “solution” is to tax people more and hand out more welfare. Classic socialism.

The problem they've got is that both relative AND absolute poverty has taken a very large and sustained drop in the last few decades, so they have to keep re-inventing poverty definitions to make their spiel even vaguely relevant.

311843

Old socialist bullshit is getting old.


Yes, that's the poverty industry.

Lucky I'm not a socialist then.

No. The problem they've got is that the cost of living is rising faster than there is money available for those who need it. There are loads of reports around about it... you'd think people might make the rather obvious connection eh... but nah.


Yeah, there's no shortage of carefully crafted reports that the world is ending, based on the price of turnips per starving vegan.

But if you'd bothered to check the real numbers posted above you'd possibly see why most people see them as the bullshit they are.

Which leaves a few various fuckwits bleating about "the system", which in fact is actually working rather well...


bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaa.

Enter fuckwit, stage left... http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/68587155/plea-for-the-government-to-spend-2b-to-reduce-child-poverty

[Brian d marge]

As ageneral rule if givernments spend money the reverse of the required outcome generally occurs
The basics of life should be capped at a percentage of the minimum wage after that do whatya want . .
Butfresh healthy food and abasic house and healthcare etc should never suffer the vagaries of the market

[mashman]

Enter fuckwit, stage left... http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/68587155/plea-for-the-government-to-spend-2b-to-reduce-child-poverty

I reckon next year would be better, but hey... if you're not going to take the issue seriously by continuing to throw financial band aid's, pun intended, at it the problem, then you're sweeping the issue under the rug for 10 years or so until some govt decides that it's subsidy over, no more budget. You'll have forgotten within 10 seconds. Pathetic attempt at stopping something that is well within our means to stop.

[Ocean1]

I reckon next year would be better, but hey... if you're not going to take the issue seriously by continuing to throw financial band aid's, pun intended, at it the problem, then you're sweeping the issue under the rug for 10 years or so until some govt decides that it's subsidy over, no more budget. You'll have forgotten within 10 seconds. Pathetic attempt at stopping something that is well within our means to stop.

Are you really that thick that you can't see that no matter how much money you throw at the fixing the "problem" of the number of "poor" defined as "earning less than 60% of the median income" it won't change?

Again: you could double everyone's real income and the number of poor would be exactly the same.

If you had a memory as good as an average sheep you'd realise that's exactly what's happened, repeatedly over the last few decades.

[bogan]

Are you really that thick that you can't see that no matter how much money you throw at the fixing the "problem" of the number of "poor" defined as "earning less than 60% of the median income" it won't change?

Again: you could double everyone's real income and the number of poor would be exactly the same.

If you had a memory as good as an average sheep you'd realise that's exactly what's happened, repeatedly over the last few decades.

Yeh that is why you have to <s>steal</s> procure gifts from the top half, to transfer to the bottom half and push their incomes above that 60% of median, while pulling it down too.

Which is also good to solve the problem of those who work too hard or don't like their job, cos they would no longer have to work to stay out of poverty.

Though more gifts may need to be procured, and the median income might drop a little more.

But that is the great thing about poverty, it isn't an absolute measure, so you can use it again and again to drag down those who you are jealous of until everyone is 'equal'...

[mashman]

Are you really that thick that you can't see that no matter how much money you throw at the fixing the "problem" of the number of "poor" defined as "earning less than 60% of the median income" it won't change?

Again: you could double everyone's real income and the number of poor would be exactly the same.

If you had a memory as good as an average sheep you'd realise that's exactly what's happened, repeatedly over the last few decades.

bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa. So under the rug it goes.

[Ocean1]

bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa. So under the rug it goes.

I guess you really are.

[mashman]

I guess you really are.

You read me incorrectly. I laughed. Pay everyone the same is 1 solution that nullifies your median income poverty calculation. No doubt something the left are working towards, tui. If it's profitable, the right will subsidise it. Like I said earlier, the people are forgotten during that tug of budget war. That you'd rather nitpick over the absoluteness of a calculation and the resultant definition makes me laugh.

[bogan]

You read me incorrectly. I laughed. Pay everyone the same is 1 solution that nullifies your median income poverty calculation. No doubt something the left are working towards, tui. If it's profitable, the right will subsidise it. Like I said earlier, the people are forgotten during that tug of budget war. That you'd rather nitpick over the absoluteness of a calculation and the resultant definition makes me laugh.

With what?

[mashman]

With what?

What with?

[bogan]

What with?

See my example above, you'll have less to pay them with than they get now

[Ocean1]

You read me incorrectly. I laughed. Pay everyone the same is 1 solution that nullifies your median income poverty calculation. No doubt something the left are working towards, tui. If it's profitable, the right will subsidise it. Like I said earlier, the people are forgotten during that tug of budget war. That you'd rather nitpick over the absoluteness of a calculation and the resultant definition makes me laugh.

It's not my poverty calculation, but if you want to pay everyone the same then by all means feel free to do so.

And yes, the left have that in common with you, they have no idea where money comes from.

And it's hardly nitpicking to point out that some fuckwit's definition is in fact utterly irrelevant to poverty, especially when it's so easy to demonstrate that only fuckwits can't see it.

[mashman]

It's not my poverty calculation, but if you want to pay everyone the same then by all means feel free to do so.

And yes, the left have that in common with you, they have no idea where money comes from.

And it's hardly nitpicking to point out that some fuckwit's definition is in fact utterly irrelevant to poverty, especially when it's so easy to demonstrate that only fuckwits can't see it.

I intend to.

Why does the left have anything in common with me? They're just as useless as the right.

No, it's still nitpicking.

[mashman]

See my example above, you'll have less to pay them with than they get now

Print more money then.

[bogan]

Print more money then.

I was not talking about the numerical value of money.

There is a reason why capitalist countries live in less poverty than those which are not.

[mashman]

I was not talking about the numerical value of money.

There is a reason why capitalist countries live in less poverty than those which are not.

Well that's the only solution open to people in this current day and age innit?

Yes, but I would imagine yours and my take on that would be very different. Mine involves rich countries raping poor country's to get rich. Yours?

[mashman]

I was not talking about the numerical value of money.

There is a reason why capitalist countries live in less poverty than those which are not.

Actually, perfect timing again.

"In sum, Greece tapped its IMF reserves to pay back...the IMF.".

Here's how broke Greece is paying its bills (https://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/just-broke-greece-paying-bills-055001095.html). Capitalist Greece. Shit for the people. Great for the IMF and anyone else who fancies a chunk of Greece. Shame so many are ok with this.

[Ocean1]

Actually, perfect timing again.

"In sum, Greece tapped its IMF reserves to pay back...the IMF.".

Here's how broke Greece is paying its bills (https://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/just-broke-greece-paying-bills-055001095.html). Capitalist Greece. Shit for the people. Great for the IMF and anyone else who fancies a chunk of Greece. Shame so many are ok with this.

So, nothing to do with Greeks spending more than they earn?

Or the fact that paying tax was largely optional?

And then blame the bank... :laugh:

[mashman]

So, nothing to do with Greeks spending more than they earn?

Or the fact that paying tax was largely optional?

And then blame the bank... :laugh:

Is that what your averages calculation leads you to believe? What about those guys in the shit that have never had a penny of debt in their lives?

It is entirely voluntary, otherwise prosecution would have been easy no?

I didn't blame the bank.

[Ocean1]

Is that what your averages calculation leads you to believe?

It is entirely voluntary, otherwise prosecution would have been easy no?

I didn't blame the bank.

I don't have an average calculation, you're confusing me with the fuckwit socialist poverty industry academic.

Which shows exactly how well your money-free socialist system would work, with pretty much everyone taking more than they can be bothered giving. Greece all over again.

There's no end to the things you blame for your warped delusions of poverty, when you can see the facts proving you're completely delusional then you might think to blame the same things for getting it so completely right.

[mashman]

I don't have an average calculation, you're confusing me with the fuckwit socialist poverty industry academic.

Which shows exactly how well your money-free socialist system would work, with pretty much everyone taking more than they can be bothered giving. Greece all over again.

There's no end to the things you blame for your warped delusions of poverty, when you can see the facts proving you're completely delusional then you might think to blame the same things for getting it so completely right.

Every single one of your "reports" requires there to be averages. You wield them as some form of undeniable truth and I find that funny. Telling me what I'm confusing eh, tsk tsk...

It shows nothing of the sort... in fact it shows quite the opposite. Although you do have to be in your right mind to care to notice.

bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa... still didn't blame the bank. So that proves that you have no idea of who I blame for what and why. I believe they call that, an exceptionally ignorant position to be in when building a case for one's opinion. Not sure what you're scared of, but lay off the projection, it makes you look like a dick.

[bogan]

Every single one of your "reports" requires there to be averages.

As does the use of the term poverty.

Greece only gets the coverage it does because it is part of the EU, the supposedly first world. Are you trying to make us forget about the millions in third world countries who are worse off than the greeks?

[mashman]

Greece only gets the coverage it does because it is part of the EU, the supposedly first world. Are you trying to make us forget about the millions in third world countries who are worse off than the greeks?

Forget? Some might say that the solution that wasn't put in place to deal with the issue of poverty is now encroaching on the first world. Greece gets coverage because there's lots of money riding on it.

[bogan]

Forget? Some might say that the solution that wasn't put in place to deal with the issue of poverty is now encroaching on the first world. Greece gets coverage because there's lots of money riding on it.

So we can agree then, greece isn't that bad compared to non-capitalist countries in terms of absolute poverty.

Glad we're making progress.

[Ocean1]

Every single one of your "reports" requires there to be averages. You wield them as some form of undeniable truth and I find that funny. Telling me what I'm confusing eh, tsk tsk...

It shows nothing of the sort... in fact it shows quite the opposite. Although you do have to be in your right mind to care to notice.

bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa... still didn't blame the bank. So that proves that you have no idea of who I blame for what and why. I believe they call that, an exceptionally ignorant position to be in when building a case for one's opinion. Not sure what you're scared of, but lay off the projection, it makes you look like a dick.

I haven't produced any reports. If you're again referring to the article about the fuckwit socialist poverty industry academic then you'll have to go ask him about his use of averages in describing absolutes. The fact that there's no possible coherent reply shouldn't slow you down in assuming whatever "truth" you like from that, it's never done so before.

Of course it does. It's yet another example where a group of people, largely free to consume whatever they like and to produce whatever they feel like goes down in a screaming heap under the load of it's own borrowing excrement. Exactly the situation your puerile cargo cult "idea" about fairies and hammers would produce, has produced at every iteration of such conditions throughout history.

No, of course you've never blamed the banks for anything. You have a precisely collated list of entities you have blamed for shit to hand and can produce it whenever you feel like. Your expertise and vast experience wrt ignorance and it's manifold uses provides you with an undeniable authority in projecting your own hugely impressive ignorance in any direction not immediately convergent with your sage and completely rational opinions regarding all sorts of shit. The fairies at the bottom of the garden tell you so.

[mashman]

So we can agree then, greece isn't that bad compared to non-capitalist countries in terms of absolute poverty.

Glad we're making progress.

We can't. All country's are capitalist, because they all use money. It's worse in the 1st world, because there is no excuse for it, on account of being the 1st world and being the shining example. I can see why country's tell the west to fuck off with their so called superdooper capitalistic model.

I am.

[bogan]

We can't. All country's are capitalist, because they all use money. It's worse in the 1st world, because there is no excuse for it, on account of being the 1st world and being the shining example. I can see why country's tell the west to fuck off with their so called superdooper capitalistic model.

I am.

That is not what capitalism is. Which ones told them to fuck off? you just said all were capitalist? Have I broken the mushy again?

[mashman]

I haven't produced any reports. If you're again referring to the article about the fuckwit socialist poverty industry academic then you'll have to go ask him about his use of averages in describing absolutes. The fact that there's no possible coherent reply shouldn't slow you down in assuming whatever "truth" you like from that, it's never done so before.

Of course it does. It's yet another example where a group of people, largely free to consume whatever they like and to produce whatever they feel like goes down in a screaming heap under the load of it's own borrowing excrement. Exactly the situation your puerile cargo cult "idea" about fairies and hammers would produce, has produced at every iteration of such conditions throughout history.

No, of course you've never blamed the banks for anything. You have a precisely collated list of entities you have blamed for shit to hand and can produce it whenever you feel like. Your expertise and vast experience wrt ignorance and it's manifold uses provides you with an undeniable authority in projecting your own hugely impressive ignorance in any direction not immediately convergent with your sage and completely rational opinions regarding all sorts of shit. The fairies at the bottom of the garden tell you so.

There is a coherent reply. It's called addressing the issue. blah blah fluff filler.

Sup? Why does your brain melt at the thought of people doing something for some reason other than money? That you obviously don't understand Resource Based Economy renders any comparison you make moot and destroys any credible argument you believe that you are putting forwards. It will work.

True, I have blamed the banks for many things. My blame list is lengthy. I have reason for that blame and it is not the negative bile spewing projection that you seem to think. Thaniks for the lulz though.

[mashman]

That is not what capitalism is. Which ones told them to fuck off? you just said all were capitalist? Have I broken the mushy again?

Yes it is. Profit. The dead and being warred against ones are telling them to fuck off. Turns out you didn't brokeded me. You did the usual ignorance thing by deciding that you know what I mean.

[Ocean1]

There is a coherent reply. It's called addressing the issue. blah blah fluff filler.

Sup? Why does your brain melt at the thought of people doing something for some reason other than money? That you obviously don't understand Resource Based Economy renders any comparison you make moot and destroys any credible argument you believe that you are putting forwards. It will work.

True, I have blamed the banks for many things. My blame list is lengthy. I have reason for that blame and it is not the negative bile spewing projection that you seem to think. Thaniks for the lulz though.

A fuckwit points to the less wealthy half of the most ridiculously rich population there's ever been and claims they're poor and you think there's an issue? You're as much a fuckwit as he is.

I don't have a problem doing something for money at all, do it every day. You're the one claiming there's an issue because some people have less money than others. That's your dream innit? You're just whining for the hell of it aincha?

You blame everything. It's what you do. It has fuck all basis in reality though. Well, other than you being a real live whining champeen of everywhere. Nevermind, with any luck you'll choke on all that bile and make the world a far more pleasant place in which everyone else can be as wealthy as they want.

[mashman]

A fuckwit points to the less wealthy half of the most ridiculously rich population there's ever been and claims they're poor and you think there's an issue? You're as much a fuckwit as he is.

I don't have a problem doing something for money at all, do it every day. You're the one claiming there's an issue because some people have less money than others. That's your dream innit? You're just whining for the hell of it aincha?

You blame everything. It's what you do. It has fuck all basis in reality though. Well, other than you being a real live whining champeen of everywhere. Nevermind, with any luck you'll choke on all that bile and make the world a far more pleasant place in which everyone else can be as wealthy as they want.

:facepalm:

Sure.

Awwwww, that's not very nice. S'ok, I'll pick that rattle up for you and place it on your blanky. I will whine where ever I go about whatever I will. What tickles me about that is that you will never know.

[bogan]

Yes it is. Profit. The dead and being warred against ones are telling them to fuck off. Turns out you didn't brokeded me. You did the usual ignorance thing by deciding that you know what I mean.

No it isn't, capitalism refers to ownership, primarily ownership of the fruits of of one's production; the value of which is dictate by the market. I think you're doing the usual change the meaning of everything until your pet theory fits and you can feel justified in your tanty-wanty; something about that which you resist persisting?

[mashman]

No it isn't, capitalism refers to ownership, primarily ownership of the fruits of of one's production; the value of which is dictate by the market. I think you're doing the usual change the meaning of everything until your pet theory fits and you can feel justified in your tanty-wanty; something about that which you resist persisting?

"Capitalism is an economic system and a mode of production in which trade, industries, and the means of production are largely or entirely privately owned. Such private firms and proprietorships are usually operated for profit, but may be operated as private nonprofit organizations.[1][2]".

[bogan]

"Capitalism is an economic system and a mode of production in which trade, industries, and the means of production are largely or entirely privately owned. Such private firms and proprietorships are usually operated for profit, but may be operated as private nonprofit organizations.[1][2]".

See how the private nature of it is emphasised over the profit aspect?

[mashman]

See how the private nature of it is emphasised over the profit aspect?

You've put your entire argument on Largely? :killingme. Pathetic.

[bogan]

You've put your entire argument on Largely? :killingme. Pathetic.

No, mine is actually based on more than the first line of a wikipedia article. It is amusing that despite it invalidating your own you still posted it in support :killingme

As above, capitalism is the system where a person owns their efforts, that is why it works so well (as evidence by poverty lines).

But I'm picking that more changing of the meaning of everything until your pet theory fits and you can feel justified in your tanty-wanty is coming. Something about that which you resist persisting springs to mind...

[mashman]

No, mine is actually based on more than the first line of a wikipedia article. It is amusing that despite it invalidating your own you still posted it in support :killingme

As above, capitalism is the system where a person owns their efforts, that is why it works so well (as evidence by poverty lines).

But I'm picking that more changing of the meaning of everything until your pet theory fits and you can feel justified in your tanty-wanty is coming. Something about that which you resist persisting springs to mind...

How does it invalidate my post? Profit requires money. Non-profit still requires money.

Ownership :killingme.

Stop picking too, coz you're really shit at it. Deja vu is what springs to mind.

[bogan]

How does it invalidate my post? Profit requires money. Non-profit still requires money.

Ownership :killingme.

Stop picking too, coz you're really shit at it. Deja vu is what springs to mind.

It points out the importance of private ownership in a capitalist system.

No, I think I can do quite well, like I'm picking the your decline from reason over the last few years is due to some part of you realising your cause is ultimately futile. I'm also picking you have not convinced a significant portion of your family about the evils of money either; which also leads to the above. I'm picking the negative focus you seem to live a large part of your life around is very detrimental to your quality of life. I'm also picking that despite being unable to refute any of the above, you'll find a way to ignore it anyway.

[mashman]

It points out the importance of private ownership in a capitalist system.

No, I think I can do quite well, like I'm picking the your decline from reason over the last few years is due to some part of you realising your cause is ultimately futile. I'm also picking you have not convinced a significant portion of your family about the evils of money either; which also leads to the above. I'm picking the negative focus you seem to live a large part of your life around is very detrimental to your quality of life. I'm also picking that despite being unable to refute any of the above, you'll find a way to ignore it anyway.

:killingme... nope, don't think either. See I considered what you wrote, but figured that it's nought more than grasping at straws bullshit. Sits well with that pathetic label.

[bogan]

:killingme... nope, don't think either. See I considered what you wrote, but figured that it's nought more than grasping at straws bullshit. Sits well with that pathetic label.

Prediction is the mark of true understanding; and I do keep predicting you to a T. Tell me mushy, what can you predict?

[mashman]

Prediction is the mark of true understanding; and I do keep predicting you to a T. Tell me mushy, what can you predict?

It appears that you can't.

[bogan]

It appears that you can't.

Oh do elaborate then.

[mashman]

Oh do elaborate then.

Why should I? There's more fun in watching you pretend that you know. It's, it's kind of playgroundy.

[bogan]

Why should I? There's more fun in watching you pretend that you know. It's, it's kind of playgroundy.

Figured as much :D

[mashman]

Figured as much :D

Given your track record. I highly doubt it :wari:.

[bogan]

Given your track record. I highly doubt it :wari:.

I think you'll find I wrote my figurings just a few posts above, and yes, that is what they were.

[mashman]

PM lowering expectations on child poverty: (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/28061171/pm-lowering-expectations-on-child-poverty/)

"But you'd appreciate that there's a limited amount of resources that we've got in very tight financial conditions,". Puny economy.

[Ocean1]

PM lowering expectations on child poverty: (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/28061171/pm-lowering-expectations-on-child-poverty/)

"But you'd appreciate that there's a limited amount of resources that we've got in very tight financial conditions,". Puny economy.

Child poverty action group's expectations?

More poverty industry fuckwits, they desperately need their expectations lowering.

[mashman]

Child poverty action group's expectations?

More poverty industry fuckwits, they desperately need their expectations lowering.

S'ok, that's what the pm's sayin like innit. Let's hope it doesn't come back to bite him eh.

[mashman]

Better Than Raising the Minimum Wage (http://www.wsj.com/articles/better-than-raising-the-minimum-wage-1432249927)... :killingme... Insanity! Buffet stylez.

[Ocean1]

He's not wrong in his economic history synopsis, but his solution is more complex than necessary.
What's required to fix that particular problem is a zero tax bracket, 0 - 50k should do it.

[bogan]

He's not wrong in his economic history synopsis, but his solution is more complex than necessary.
What's required to fix that particular problem is a zero tax bracket, 0 - 50k should do it.

There's a few solutions in that area that just amount to trickle down economics. Raise min wage, money goes from employers (who have to make a profit) to employees; tax incentives or 0 tax bracket just goes from tax earners (like the employer) to those employees again. I think the advantage in not going the min wage route is it allows that lowest skill bracket to be paid what the job is worth, encouraging workers in that bracket to better apply themselves and move up the ladder. Min wagers seem to stagnate in jobs because they struggle to get out of the min wage bracket. 0 tax bracket is certainly simpler, but I think the opt-in nature of tax incentives might make it an easier sell to the politicans...

[mashman]

He's not wrong in his economic history synopsis, but his solution is more complex than necessary.
What's required to fix that particular problem is a zero tax bracket, 0 - 50k should do it.

Easier to get a similar outcome, true. Fix the problem, not so much.

[Zedder]

Easier to get a similar outcome, true. Fix the problem, not so much.


I loooove money mashman. It's friggin great stuff . Money, money, money!!!!

[mashman]

I loooove money mashman. It's friggin great stuff . Money, money, money!!!!

Be a bit of a bummer for ya when it's gone then won't it :D

[bogan]

Be a bit of a bummer for ya when it's gone then won't it :D

Speed reloading mate; gone (out of your) is just a state of mind :shifty:

http://i.imgur.com/Z3qpwYs.gif

[Zedder]

Be a bit of a bummer for ya when it's gone then won't it :D

Nah, I didn't write that I'm relying on it.

[mashman]

Speed reloading mate; gone (out of your) is just a state of mind :shifty:

Aye, scarcity is a powerful tool.


Nah, I didn't write that I'm relying on it.

I meant from the enjoyment perspective.

[bogan]

Aye, scarcity is a powerful tool.

Not compared to the power of a well grounded mind.

[Zedder]

I meant from the enjoyment perspective.

If I'm not relying on it, then other things will take the place of said money enjoyment.

[mashman]

Not compared to the power of a well grounded mind.

They should teach that shit at school.


If I'm not relying on it, then other things will take the place of said money enjoyment.

Good to know :D

[bogan]

They should teach that shit at school.

They did at mine, perhaps you weren't paying attention at yours...

[FJRider]

Child poverty action group's expectations?



They expect the Parents in low income familys should be able to buy their booze/smokes ... and ... still have money to feed the pokie machines ... and their kids .. :rolleyes:

[Zedder]

Good to know :D

Indeed, it's always good to know about diversifying your investments.

[Ocean1]

There's a few solutions in that area that just amount to trickle down economics. Raise min wage, money goes from employers (who have to make a profit) to employees; tax incentives or 0 tax bracket just goes from tax earners (like the employer) to those employees again. I think the advantage in not going the min wage route is it allows that lowest skill bracket to be paid what the job is worth, encouraging workers in that bracket to better apply themselves and move up the ladder. Min wagers seem to stagnate in jobs because they struggle to get out of the min wage bracket. 0 tax bracket is certainly simpler, but I think the opt-in nature of tax incentives might make it an easier sell to the politicans...

Oh aye, there's a bunch of ways the productive can subsidise the unproductive. Pretty much any method other than the current "tax the middle so hard you have to subsidise most of the population" is defensible by one socialist flavour or another. The current system is just the natural cluster fuck resulting from having that same majority decide who gets subsidies.

Maybe one day someone who actually recognises where all the resources come from will make a fair case for who gets them. No holding my breath.

[mashman]

They did at mine, perhaps you weren't paying attention at yours...

Thank fuck I wasn't given that you're the poster boy.


Indeed, it's always good to know about diversifying your investments.

They should teach that shit at school too.

[bogan]

Thank fuck I wasn't given that you're the poster boy.



They should teach that shit at school too.

Would have thought, happy, educated, productive, wealthy, and generous made good poster qualities...

They do that too

[Zedder]

They should teach that shit at school too.

Hang on, message coming through from Jacque Fresco: "You traitorous swine!!!"

But seriously, they probably should be teaching things along those lines as well as the usual curriculum.

[mashman]

Would have thought, happy, educated, productive, wealthy, and generous made good poster qualities...

They do that too

That's why I prefer Akzle's posts to yours.

Generally.


Hang on, message coming through from Jacque Fresco: "You traitorous swine!!!"

But seriously, they probably should be teaching things along those lines as well as the usual curriculum.

:rofl: I reckon he'd accept that it'd level the playing field somewhat ;)

Aye. Someone posted a rap of a school kid explaining something similar, amongst other things. Quite informative.

[bogan]

That's why I prefer Akzle's posts to yours.

Generally.

Seems a demonstrably innacurate supposition, but you do have a penchant for those I've noticed...

Have you convinced your family that money free is a good idea yet? or is that still an off limits discussion at the diner table?

[mashman]

Seems a demonstrably innacurate supposition, but you do have a penchant for those I've noticed...


Of course it does, to you.

[bogan]

Of course it does, to you.

And that second bit? Got anywhere with being the change you wish to see?

[mashman]

Got anywhere with being the change you wish to see?

I Am........

[Zedder]

:rofl: I reckon he'd accept that it'd level the playing field somewhat ;)

Aye. Someone posted a rap of a school kid explaining something similar, amongst other things. Quite informative.


Nope, Fresco's holistic socio-economic system is the antithesis of that afaik.

I watched that video, very interesting.

[mashman]

Nope, Fresco's holistic socio-economic system is the antithesis of that afaik.

I watched that video, very interesting.

I would have thought Mr Fresco would rather see kids learning that which is useful for them to prepare for society. Then again, you must know him better :shifty:

WTF would kids know eh lol.

[Zedder]

I would have thought Mr Fresco would rather see kids learning that which is useful for them to prepare for society. Then again, you must know him better :shifty:

WTF would kids know eh lol.

It was in response to the diversifying investments post. Fresco would be a hypocrite to want his kids to get into that given what he believes ya bampot!

[mashman]

It was in response to the diversifying investments post. Fresco would be a hypocrite to want his kids to get into that given what he believes ya bampot!

I remember what it was in response to and I fail to see why that would make Fresco a hypocrite... unless of course that's different to those who want a free market but will work under any system etc... or perhaps libertarians who claim to be self-made and rely on items produced by society. Nah, I see no Fresco hypocrisy, numpty.

[Zedder]

I remember what it was in response to and I fail to see why that would make Fresco a hypocrite... unless of course that's different to those who want a free market but will work under any system etc... or perhaps libertarians who claim to be self-made and rely on items produced by society. Nah, I see no Fresco hypocrisy, numpty.

Perhaps you don't understand what a hypocrite is: If he professes one thing but actually does the opposite, he's a hypocrite. Ya cozy dunt!

[FJRider]

Perhaps you don't understand what a hypocrite is: If he professes one thing but actually does the opposite, he's a hypocrite. Ya cozy dunt!

Actually ...

1. A person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess. Especially a person whose actions differ from their stated beliefs.


2. A person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude ... especially one whose private life/opinions or statements differ from his or her public statements.

[Zedder]

Actually ...

1. A person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess. Especially a person whose actions differ from their stated beliefs.


2. A person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude ... especially one whose private life/opinions or statements differ from his or her public statements.


Yeah, but he doesn't need the long version.

[mashman]

Perhaps you don't understand what a hypocrite is: If he professes one thing but actually does the opposite, he's a hypocrite. Ya cozy dunt!

Does? Who said anything about doing? You don't think Mr Fresco would want kids educated with knowledge that is pertinent to their future? And if doing so you'd call him a hypocrite despite the fact that he wants the absolute best education that can be provided for the kids and their future? You sound confused ya muckin fuppet.

[Zedder]

Does? Who said anything about doing? You don't think Mr Fresco would want kids educated with knowledge that is pertinent to their future? And if doing so you'd call him a hypocrite despite the fact that he wants the absolute best education that can be provided for the kids and their future? You sound confused ya muckin fuppet.

Coming from someone who had a major problem with the j versus J on the Jews issue, I think you're the one who's confused about life in general.

[mashman]

Coming from someone who had a major problem with the j versus J on the Jews issue, I think you're the one who's confused about life in general.

:killingme... nah, I think you'll find that it was not I that has the issue with the j versus J... and given that you were incapable of understanding the j/J thing, your confusion rhetoric holds about as much water as your head does brains (they're in your arse, obviously).

[Zedder]

:killingme... nah, I think you'll find that it was not I that has the issue with the j versus J... and given that you were incapable of understanding the j/J thing, your confusion rhetoric holds about as much water as your head does brains (they're in your arse, obviously).

You're hilarious. I think your poll for the NZ public should have included the option: Is mashman a raving lunatic?

[mashman]

You're hilarious. I think your poll for the NZ public should have included the option: Is mashman a raving lunatic?

Coming from an indoctrinated, I'll take that as a huge compliment as I'm obviously on the right path. Thanks.

[Zedder]

Coming from an indoctrinated, I'll take that as a huge compliment as I'm obviously on the right path. Thanks.

Path to what? You don't actually do anything but type.

Also, people who are on the "right path" don't threaten others with "I will murder any dissenters like you as they sleep..." etc. Or was bogan wrong about that?

[mashman]

Path to what? You don't actually do anything but type.

Also, people who are on the "right path" don't threaten others with "I will murder any dissenters like you as they sleep..." etc. Or was bogan wrong about that?

You mean you don't see what I do.

I'd call it sarcasm.

[Zedder]

You mean you don't see what I do.

I'd call it sarcasm.

Iirc, you were going to send your manifesto to all MPs or something like that. So how did that go for a start?

Did you threaten to murder dissenters like bogan?

[mashman]

Iirc, you were going to send your manifesto to all MPs or something like that. So how did that go for a start?

Did you threaten to murder dissenters like bogan?

It went as expected... although I did have a brief email chat with the only one that wanted to know, Andrew Little.

Ok, you wouldn't call it sarcasm then.

[Zedder]

It went as expected... although I did have a brief email chat with the only one that wanted to know, Andrew Little.

Ok, you wouldn't call it sarcasm then.

I appreciate your honesty.

And the murdering of dissenters?

[mashman]

I appreciate your honesty.

And the murdering of dissenters?

Awwwwww... hugs.

For the third time, sarcasm. Let me gaze into my crystal ball aaaaaaaaand

For the fourth time, sarcasm.

For the fifth time, sarcasm.

For the sixth time, sarcasm.

lol.

[Zedder]

Awwwwww... hugs.

For the third time, sarcasm. Let me gaze into my crystal ball aaaaaaaaand

For the fourth time, sarcasm.

For the fifth time, sarcasm.

For the sixth time, sarcasm.

lol.

Hmmm, not convinced on the murder of dissenters bit, but bogan may want to respond.

[mashman]

Hmmm, not convinced on the murder of dissenters bit, but bogan may want to respond.

Of course you're not convinced, you believe me insane and bogan to be of sound mind. Like I said, indoctrinated :shifty:... although I'm more than happy for bogan to post it on up there so that I can be 100% certain that it was indeed sarcasm. You might be waiting for a very long time for that mind.

[Zedder]

Of course you're not convinced, you believe me insane and bogan to be of sound mind. Like I said, indoctrinated :shifty:... although I'm more than happy for bogan to post it on up there so that I can be 100% certain that it was indeed sarcasm. You might be waiting for a very long time for that mind.

It's not really about the insanity. However, as I posted earlier, threats of murdering dissenters are not indicative of someone on the right path.

If I discuss something with you, it's totally different to discussing something with bogan as you have a somewhat skewed take on things that often defies logical reasoning.

[mashman]

It's not really about the insanity. However, as I posted earlier, threats of murdering dissenters are not indicative of someone on the right path.

If I discuss something with you, it's totally different to discussing something with bogan as you have a somewhat skewed take on things that often defies logical reasoning.

Exactly. Odd I had to explain that it was sarcasm on more than 1 occasion then ;).

Skewed lack or logical reasoning eh... ok then here's a question for you using my standard logic module. If the planet produces 1.5 times the amount of food that is currently required to feed the entire population, we have the transport to get that food to anywhere in the world at any given point in time, we have the fuel to power that transport, then, Why are there hungry people, let alone those dying from starvation? Skewed lack or logical reasoning? bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa... is that what the indoctrinated are calling the truth these days.

[bogan]

I Am........

Yet you and your family still use money, just like me and zedder. So we are being the change just as much as you?

[Zedder]

Exactly. Odd I had to explain that it was sarcasm on more than 1 occasion then ;).

Skewed lack or logical reasoning eh... ok then here's a question for you using my standard logic module. If the planet produces 1.5 times the amount of food that is currently required to feed the entire population, we have the transport to get that food to anywhere in the world at any given point in time, we have the fuel to power that transport, then, Why are there hungry people, let alone those dying from starvation? Skewed lack or logical reasoning? bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa... is that what the indoctrinated are calling the truth these days.

The insanity jab was linked to the Jewish issue not the sarcasm claim. Your claim of sarcasm regarding murdering of dissenters, hasn't been confirmed or denied yet by others.

It's not "skewed lack or logical reasoning" masho, read my post again.

I haven't formulated any thoughts on the food surplus issue. Post up your theory, including links to info on the situation, and let's have a look at it.

[mashman]

Yet you and your family still use money, just like me and zedder. So we are being the change just as much as you?

Yeah, you are.

[mashman]

The insanity jab was linked to the Jewish issue not the sarcasm claim. Your claim of sarcasm regarding murdering of dissenters, hasn't been confirmed or denied yet by others.

It's not "skewed lack or logical reasoning" masho, read my post again.

I haven't formulated any thoughts on the food surplus issue. Post up your theory, including links to info on the situation, and let's have a look at it.

Do you know what a womble is?

The "or" shoulda been an "of" in both cases. Not implied?

Retreating to detail already huh? 1 human being dies from starvation every minute of every day. It's actually measured in seconds. Theory you say?

I'll save you the time, it's not profitable. It really goes no further than that. Same story for a great great many things. All doable, just not profitable.

[bogan]

Yeah, you are.

Sweet, I've done my part then.


Now where did I put my cash cannon :D

[bogan]

The insanity jab was linked to the Jewish issue not the sarcasm claim. Your claim of sarcasm regarding murdering of dissenters, hasn't been confirmed or denied yet by others.

It's not "skewed lack or logical reasoning" masho, read my post again.

I haven't formulated any thoughts on the food surplus issue. Post up your theory, including links to info on the situation, and let's have a look at it.

The claims of sarcasm would be denied by me, pointing out the context in which they were replied, with no alternative explanation forthcoming. Like if a sane person made a sarcastic remark, they'd follow it up with a more serious idea, or otherwise indicate the aformentioned sarcasm.

There is local food surplus, and food scarcity for sure. But no studies I have ever seen conclude there is a net surplus; or that we can easily transport it. As humans we do not manage population very well at all, poor food distribution may be symptomatic of that.

[Zedder]

Do you know what a womble is?

The "or" shoulda been an "of" in both cases. Not implied?

Retreating to detail already huh? 1 human being dies from starvation every minute of every day. It's actually measured in seconds. Theory you say?

I'll save you the time, it's not profitable. It really goes no further than that. Same story for a great great many things. All doable, just not profitable.

The actual phrase was "somewhat skewed take on things that often defies logical reasoning". So, a bit more than just "of".

And you want me to take you seriously?

[Zedder]

The claims of sarcasm would be denied by me, pointing out the context in which they were replied, with no alternative explanation forthcoming. Like if a sane person made a sarcastic remark, they'd follow it up with a more serious idea, or otherwise indicate the aformentioned sarcasm.

There is local food surplus, and food scarcity for sure. But no studies I have ever seen conclude there is a net surplus; or that we can easily transport it. As humans we do not manage population very well at all, poor food distribution may be symptomatic of that.

Thanks for that bogan. But there shouldn't need to be any studies about population or distribution etc cos mashman wrote it's only the fact it's not profitable that is the problem.

[bogan]

Thanks for that bogan. But there shouldn't need to be any studies about population or distribution etc cos mashman wrote it's only the fact it's not profitable that is the problem.

Well he is half right, massive food transiting isn't profitable...

[mashman]

Sweet, I've done my part then.

Now where did I put my cash cannon :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yURRmWtbTbo

[mashman]

The actual phrase was "somewhat skewed take on things that often defies logical reasoning". So, a bit more than just "of".

And you want me to take you seriously?

lol. And you want me to take you seriously?

[mashman]

massive food transiting isn't profitable...

bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa.

[bogan]

lol. And you want me to take you seriously?

Mate, he is being the change you wish to see, how can you not take him seriously :whistle:


bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa.

Would it affect your allergies less if I had said massive food transiting isn't efficient? In this context they mean the same thing, and a Mr Fresco knows the importance of efficiency; why can you ignore it?

[Zedder]

lol. And you want me to take you seriously?

I couldn't care less if you take me seriously or not.

I'm not the one who can't read a post properly, or who is vainly pushing a bastardised version of Jacque Fresco's system and whose sum total of accomplishment in that area after all this time, appears to be an email exchange with the leader of the Labour party.

If just hope I never stoop to threatening people for not believing in what I post.

[bogan]

appears to be an email exchange with the leader of the Labour party.

He emailed Labour? well in his own words...

"bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa."

:killingme

What a fucking hypocrite, no wonder he idolises russel instead of jaques

[mashman]

Mate, he is being the change you wish to see, how can you not take him seriously :whistle:

Would it affect your allergies less if I had said massive food transiting isn't efficient? In this context they mean the same thing, and a Mr Fresco knows the importance of efficiency; why can you ignore it?

:killingme... you know the answer to that one.

bwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha haaaaa... yeah, much better. I'm not ignoring it, in fact in all of the world with all of its issues I plucked that one straight off the top of my list. All part of the logistics required for shipping food to where it needs to be, not where it goes to be wasted... until those regions develop sufficiently enough that they can support their local population and provide a slight surplus for others/winter/failed crop/whatthefuckeva reason. Yeah, I've given it a little bit of thought, just not fully aware of exactly what food is flown around the world and to where... although I've seen a ridiculous tomato example (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/red-alert-the-glory-of-the-great-british-tomato-2285513.html), or maybe the Kiwi classic with the catchy, "Now available in New Zealand" type thing... blah blah blah.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6OG1zprw8E

[bogan]

:killingme... you know the answer to that one.

bwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha haaaaa... yeah, much better. I'm not ignoring it, in fact in all of the world with all of its issues I plucked that one straight off the top of my list. All part of the logistics required for shipping food to where it needs to be, not where it goes to be wasted... until those regions develop sufficiently enough that they can support their local population and provide a slight surplus for others/winter/failed crop/whatthefuckeva reason. Yeah, I've given it a little bit of thought, just not fully aware of exactly what food is flown around the world and to where... although I've seen a ridiculous tomato example (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/red-alert-the-glory-of-the-great-british-tomato-2285513.html), or maybe the Kiwi classic with the catchy, "Now available in New Zealand" type thing... blah blah blah.

You don't pay much attention to the newsy emails all those charity's send out to donors do you mashy?

[mashman]

I couldn't care less if you take me seriously or not.

I'm not the one who can't read a post properly, or who is vainly pushing a bastardised version of Jacque Fresco's system and whose sum total of accomplishment in that area after all this time, appears to be an email exchange with the leader of the Labour party.

If just hope I never stoop to threatening people for not believing in what I post.

Cool.........

[mashman]

You don't pay much attention to the newsy emails all those charity's send out to donors do you mashy?

:killingme... you certainly don't seem to have.

[bogan]

:killingme... you certainly don't seem to have.

Enough that I know real efforts are already made with regard to food aid and teaching those who are aided sustainable farming practices; ie, that which you whinged about not being done since it was not profitable.

[Brian d marge]

Did u know british apples are flown to brazil or somewhere there to be washed before flown back for sale in britain

[bogan]

Did u know british apples are flown to brazil or somewhere there to be washed before flown back for sale in britain

I still don't, cos I expect you are full of shit. Feel free to show it and I'll recant...

[mashman]

Enough that I know real efforts are already made with regard to food aid and teaching those who are aided sustainable farming practices; ie, that which you whinged about not being done since it was not profitable.

bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa... And I assume that you're taking into account the many who are being removed from their already sustainable farms so that they can be taught how to farm sustainably? You have no concept of what I'm whining about. Pretending you do is fuckin funny though.

[bogan]

And I assume that you're taking into account the many who are being removed from their already sustainable farms so that they can be taught how to farm sustainably? You have no concept of what I'm whining about. Pretending you do is fuckin funny though.

No, I tend to take into account the actual reality.

I know exactly what you are whining about, and I know the negativity it invokes comes due to your own inability to make any meaningful change. As they say, what you resist, persists...

[mashman]

Did u know british apples are flown to brazil or somewhere there to be washed before flown back for sale in britain

I know now. That's crazy. To be fair though, they come back well packaged too.

[mashman]

No, I tend to take into account the actual reality.

I know exactly what you are whining about, and I know the negativity it invokes comes due to your own inability to make any meaningful change. As they say, what you resist, persists...

That is reality... just not yours.

No you don't. bwaaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa thanks for underlining the point in such spectacular fashion. Chur bro... cannot spread to you again.

[bogan]

That is reality... just not yours.

No you don't. bwaaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa thanks for underlining the point in such spectacular fashion. Chur bro... cannot spread to you again.

That was the point where a non-whinger would have shown some examples...

Don't worry, you can email labour about it instead :laugh:

[mashman]

That was the point where a non-whinger would have shown some examples...

Don't worry, you can email labour about it instead :laugh:

I gave some examples. If you had have been even remotely curious, you would have looked for yourself... this is after all human life we're talking about. You have been informed. Entirely up to you what you do with that information.

I'd certainly get more sense.

[bogan]

I gave some examples. If you had have been even remotely curious, you would have looked for yourself... this is after all human life we're talking about. You have been informed. Entirely up to you what you do with that information.

I'd certainly get more sense.

That was a hypothetical, not an example.

[mashman]

That was a hypothetical, not an example.

Sorry, am off to email labour.

Edity: Actually that was a lie.

Boots on the ground (http://www.actionaid.org/where-we-work/europe/land-grabs-sustainable-agriculture)

An academic view (http://devnet.org.nz/sites/default/files/DEVNET%202014,%20OTAGO.pdf)

[Brian d marge]

I still don't, cos I expect you are full of shit. Feel free to show it and I'll recant...
I dont care
Just take it the arse like a nice sheeple

[bogan]

I dont care
Just take it the arse like a nice sheeple

Sheeple are those who perpetuate blind obedience, not those who question it. Both you and mashy refuse to back up your claims when questioned, instead advocating blind acceptance.

[mashman]

Sheeple are those who perpetuate blind obedience, not those who question it. Both you and mashy refuse to back up your claims when questioned, instead advocating blind acceptance.

I just did and he has. You're welcome.

[Brian d marge]

Sheeple are those who perpetuate blind obedience, not those who question it. Both you and mashy refuse to back up your claims when questioned, instead advocating blind acceptance.
Pure garbage
I always back up my claims

Apples are sent from the UK to South Africa to be washed and waxed, then shipped back to British supermarkets. Tuna is caught off the coast of America, flown to Japan to be processed, and then flown back to the US to be sold.


I got the south part right

[bogan]

Pure garbage
I always back up my claims

Apples are sent from the UK to South Africa to be washed and waxed, then shipped back to British supermarkets. Tuna is caught off the coast of America, flown to Japan to be processed, and then flown back to the US to be sold.


I got the south part right

The source? It isn't backing up your claims if you just use different words to say the same thing.

[mashman]

Pure garbage
I always back up my claims

Apples are sent from the UK to South Africa to be washed and waxed, then shipped back to British supermarkets. Tuna is caught off the coast of America, flown to Japan to be processed, and then flown back to the US to be sold.


I got the south part right

That sort of shit leads to marine reserves.

[Brian d marge]

The source? It isn't backing up your claims if you just use different words to say the same thing.
Independent . . .try using google

[mashman]

The source? It isn't backing up your claims if you just use different words to say the same thing.

You're still not at the tingly bit eh.

[bogan]

Independent . . .try using google

You were saying something about backing yourself up? :killingme

[bogan]

Sorry, am off to email labour.

Edity: Actually that was a lie.

Boots on the ground (http://www.actionaid.org/where-we-work/europe/land-grabs-sustainable-agriculture)

An academic view (http://devnet.org.nz/sites/default/files/DEVNET%202014,%20OTAGO.pdf)

Those land grabs are done by corporations etc, not the not-for-profit charity's who we choose to financially support. Ie, that which you whinged about not being done since it was not profitable is being done.

[Brian d marge]

You were saying something about backing yourself up? :killingme
Try typing in google

British apple flown to south africa

You may find many links

I like this wonan myself . .shes smart

https://www.google.co.jp/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=cehiVbGNCtTf8AWJkYCQBA&url=http://www.unesco.org/new/fileadmin/MULTIMEDIA/HQ/CLT/pdf/helenanorberghodge.pdf&ved=0CDsQFjAI&usg=AFQjCNHeAB3fw-NLM2uTvnB3YAjs5r374g&sig2=__Q3F10GUFxYREnlwe60gA

If ya need help email me and ill send the youtube link

[bogan]

Try typing in google

British apple flown to south africa

You may find many links

I like this wonan myself . .shes smart

https://www.google.co.jp/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=cehiVbGNCtTf8AWJkYCQBA&url=http://www.unesco.org/new/fileadmin/MULTIMEDIA/HQ/CLT/pdf/helenanorberghodge.pdf&ved=0CDsQFjAI&usg=AFQjCNHeAB3fw-NLM2uTvnB3YAjs5r374g&sig2=__Q3F10GUFxYREnlwe60gA

If ya need help email me and ill send the youtube link

Oh I've no doubt you can find the same thing written over and over again with a google search, what I wonder is if you (or any other person saying it) can actually back it up?

PS, interesting to note there is now an 'and waxed' in addition you original idea that they just went there to be washed. By the time we get to the bottom of it I wouldn't be surprised if a seed might have gone over from UK, and a few tonnes of apples come back... :facepalm:

[Brian d marge]

Oh I've no doubt you can find the same thing written over and over again with a google search, what I wonder is if you (or any other person saying it) can actually back it up?

PS, interesting to not there is now an 'and waxed' in addition you original idea that they just went their to be washed. By the time we get to the bottom of it I wouldn't be surprised if a seed might have gone over from UK, and a few tonnes of apples come back... :facepalm:
U are just being stupid now

[bogan]

U are just being stupid now

How? do you think blind acceptance a good idea if something is said often enough?

[Brian d marge]

Gematria is one method for discovering its hidden meanings. Each letter in Hebrew also represents a number; Hebrew, unlike many other languages, never developed a separate numerical alphabet. By converting letters to numbers, Kabbalists were able to find a hidden meaning in each word. This method of interpretation was used extensively by various schools.

Wibble

[bogan]

Gematria is one method for discovering its hidden meanings. Each letter in Hebrew also represents a number; Hebrew, unlike many other languages, never developed a separate numerical alphabet. By converting letters to numbers, Kabbalists were able to find a hidden meaning in each word. This method of interpretation was used extensively by various schools.

Wibble

So you are declining to back yourself up (why is it that people who claim they always do, so often fail at the first attempt :rolleyes:), I'll stand by my prior statement that you are full of shit then :yes:

[Brian d marge]

So you are declining to back yourself up (why is it that people who claim they always do, so often fail at the first attempt :rolleyes:), I'll stand by my prior statement that you are full of shit then :yes:
Dude
Did

If ya want the last word feel free

[bogan]

Dude
Did

If ya want the last word feel free

You found others who said the same thing you did. If you think that is s enough to draw a solid conclusion from, then you are the sheeple you accuse others of being.

[Zedder]

He emailed Labour? well in his own words...

"bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa."

:killingme

What a fucking hypocrite, no wonder he idolises russel instead of jaques


Yep, although the email from Andrew Little probably went something like:"You're a looney, you've just plagiarised Jacque Fresco's work. Don't email me again".

[mashman]

Nigeria fuel crisis could shut down mobile phones, operator warns (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/28211389/nigeria-fuel-crisis-could-shut-down-mobile-phones-operator-warns/)... the fuel exists, the money doesn't.

[mashman]

Relationships Aotearoa to close (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/28221762/relationships-aotearoa-to-close/)... the need is there, the people are there to help, guess what? the money isn't, despite the fact that it can be plucked out of thin air at will. You;re allowed to be non-profit, but you need to make a profit in order to be considered worthy of providing services :tugger:... and you dopey fuckers vote for that kinda shit? :killingme nay some of you actively endorse such a stupid approach :clap:

[Banditbandit]

Well he is half right, massive food transiting isn't profitable...






Would it affect your allergies less if I had said massive food transiting isn't efficient? In this context they mean the same thing, and a Mr Fresco knows the importance of efficiency; why can you ignore it?

So you are saying that profit and efficiency are more important than people's lives?

That we should let people starve to death in the name of profits and efficiency ???

What kind of a person are you ???

Oh and yeah .. massive food transportation is currently carried out all around the world .. Here's ONE piece about it ... there are heaps more ...

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2003/may/10/foodanddrink.shopping6


We bought a basket of 20 fresh foods from the major retailers on one day last month and tracked the food miles it had clocked up. We found apples from America; pears from Argentina; fish from the Indian ocean; lettuce from Spain; tomatoes from Saudi Arabia; broccoli from Spain; baby carrots from South Africa; salad potatoes from Israel; sugar snap peas from Guatemala; asparagus from Peru, garden peas from South Africa; red wine from Chile; Brussels sprouts from Australia; prawns from Indonesia; chicken from Thailand; red peppers from Holland; grapes from Chile; strawberries from Spain and beef from Britain. Our total basket had travelled 100,943 miles.

[MisterD]

That we should let people starve to death in the name of profits and efficiency ???

What kind of a person are you ???


Obviously, he's not a Green, because their attitude to GM crops is that it's better to let people starve than a) use actual science to help them and especially b) have a company make money out of applying that science.

[Zedder]

These guys are doing a good job, so I'm happy to keep donating money:http://www.mercycorps.org/articles/quick-facts-what-you-need-know-about-global-hunger

[mashman]

These guys are doing a good job, so I'm happy to keep donating money:http://www.mercycorps.org/articles/quick-facts-what-you-need-know-about-global-hunger

That's nice. For your consideration: The Charitable Industrial Complex - Peter Buffett (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/27/opinion/the-charitable-industrial-complex.html?_r=0)

[Banditbandit]

Obviously, he's not a Green, because their attitude to GM crops is that it's better to let people starve than a) use actual science to help them and especially b) have a company make money out of applying that science.

This is the same "actual science" that told us human beings could not catch Mad Cow Disease??? The same actual science that assures us the "GM food is safe" ???

The same actual science that gave us Thalidomide?

The same actual science that took 17 years to identify a microwave oven as the source of "cosmic radiation" ??? http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/may/05/microwave-oven-caused-mystery-signal-plaguing-radio-telescope-for-17-years

The same scientists who that once told us smoking was good for asthma .. and then argued that there was no connection between smoking and lung cancer ???

Do you trust the GM-producing companies with your life ??? Every time you eat GM-produced food that is exactly what you are doing ...

(I have no issue with companies making money ....)

[Zedder]

That's nice. For your consideration: The Charitable Industrial Complex - Peter Buffett (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/27/opinion/the-charitable-industrial-complex.html?_r=0)

That's nice. For your consideration:http://www.forbes.com/sites/howardhusock/2013/07/27/what-peter-buffet-gets-wrong-about-philanthropy/

[bogan]

So you are saying that profit and efficiency are more important than people's lives?

That we should let people starve to death in the name of profits and efficiency ???

What kind of a person are you ???

Oh and yeah .. massive food transportation is currently carried out all around the world .. Here's ONE piece about it ... there are heaps more ...

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2003/may/10/foodanddrink.shopping6

No, I'm saying there is no significant link between those two things that allows us to trade one for the other on a mass scale. If you think there is, how much of your profits do you donate to such causes?

Didn't see any staple food crops in that list, or are you suggesting people will starve if they miss out on their prawns and marlin?

[Brian d marge]

Written in small letters so that he doesnt see it
Ocean 1 posted a link to historical food prices and wage
Lost of good info there

[Banditbandit]

No, I'm saying there is no significant link between those two things that allows us to trade one for the other on a mass scale.

I'm sorry - I must be having a dense day ... I don't get your point


If you think there is, how much of your profits do you donate to such causes?

If I got your first point I might be able to answer ... But basically I'm not too wealthy, but I'm pretty good at harvesting wild food and I share the excess with people who need it (the ones who "want" it I make stand in line behind those who need it .. )


Didn't see any staple food crops in that list, or are you suggesting people will starve if they miss out on their prawns and marlin?

Sure, those two are there - but so are potatoes, carrots, lettuce, apples, spinach, chicken and peas ... you're picking two top end items to highlight and poo-poo the results .. not a legitimate move in any argument.

[bogan]

This is the same "actual science" that told us human beings could not catch Mad Cow Disease??? The same actual science that assures us the "GM food is safe" ???

The same actual science that gave us Thalidomide?

The same actual science that took 17 years to identify a microwave oven as the source of "cosmic radiation" ??? http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/may/05/microwave-oven-caused-mystery-signal-plaguing-radio-telescope-for-17-years

The same scientists who that once told us smoking was good for asthma .. and then argued that there was no connection between smoking and lung cancer ???

Do you trust the GM-producing companies with your life ??? Every time you eat GM-produced food that is exactly what you are doing ...

(I have no issue with companies making money ....)

Quite a rant there full, I'm a bit surprised there is no use of the term 'pakeha science' though, or is that implied since the other net is pretty holey?

[mashman]

That's nice. For your consideration:http://www.forbes.com/sites/howardhusock/2013/07/27/what-peter-buffet-gets-wrong-about-philanthropy/

Indoctrination at its finest. That old white guy woulda been one of the first too most likely. You in later years if you like.

[Banditbandit]

Quite a rant there full, I'm a bit surprised there is no use of the term 'pakeha science' though, or is that implied since the other net is pretty holey?

:rofl: I'm sure we have had this conversation before ... "science" has no way to prove that it is describing reality in any way - it can only be based on a use value. (And it is useful) Western epistemologies are empty ... as are all current human epistemologies - there is no way to show they have any connect to a real truth.

[mashman]

Quite a rant there full, I'm a bit surprised there is no use of the term 'pakeha science' though, or is that implied since the other net is pretty holey?

Still not at the tingly bit eh.

[Zedder]

Indoctrination at its finest. That old white guy woulda been one of the first too most likely. You in later years if you like.

Ahh yes, the standard answer and ad hominem. He's rather wealthy and happy I hear, I can relate to that.

I'm standing by for the next stage: Threats to murder me in my sleep...

[bogan]

I'm sorry - I must be having a dense day ... I don't get your point



If I got your first point I might be able to answer ... But basically I'm not too wealthy, but I'm pretty good at harvesting wild food and I share the excess with people who need it (the ones who "want" it I make stand in line behind those who need it .. )



Sure, those two are there - but so are potatoes, carrots, lettuce, apples, spinach, chicken and peas ... you're picking two top end items to highlight and poo-poo the results .. not a legitimate move in any argument.

My point is that we are not letting people starve to death for profit and efficiency. Because those things can't be traded off against one another on a mass scale. Ie, we could cut profits on food production (by giving it away) and decrease efficiency of food transportation (by transporting it to give away), yet the starving would continue.

A lot more wealthy than those who starve though, if you beleive that wealth can be given up to prevent starvation, why are you still wealthy at all?

None of those are transported en-masse as staple food items either though.


:rofl: I'm sure we have had this conversation before ... "science" has no way to prove that it is describing reality in any way - it can only be based on a use value. (And it is useful) Western epistemologies are empty ... as are all current human epistemologies - there is no way to show they have any connect to a real truth.

Yeh, you often hide behind the same arguments. This is a classic strawman, up there with you don't understand or you have no idea :yawn:, obviously if nothing is really real then real things are not real. Not very fucking helpful to those who really could benefit from a judicious application of science though!

[mashman]

Ahh yes, the standard answer and ad hominem. He's rather wealthy and happy I hear, I can relate to that.

I'm standing by for the next stage: Threats to murder me in my sleep...

Nope, just adding a little fun to a truism.

:rofl:... I wouldn't waste your time if I was you, although my proxy may be along shortly to back himself up :rofl: :crybaby: :rofl:

[Zedder]

Nope, just adding a little fun to a truism.

:rofl:... I wouldn't waste your time if I was you, although my proxy may be along shortly to back himself up :rofl: :crybaby: :rofl:


Look what happens when you stop taking your pills. Your proxy? How effluent that makes you look.

[Banditbandit]

My point is that we are not letting people starve to death for profit and efficiency. Because those things can't be traded off against one another on a mass scale. Ie, we could cut profits on food production (by giving it away) and decrease efficiency of food transportation (by transporting it to give away), yet the starving would continue.

OK. Now I get your point. I'm not convinced. The world produces 1.5 times the amount of food to feed the entire population. If we redistributed the food to everyone how would people continue to starve?


A lot more wealthy than those who starve though, if you beleive that wealth can be given up to prevent starvation, why are you still wealthy at all?

I could give you several answers - I won't. It pricks my conscience occasionally ...




Yeh, you often hide behind the same arguments. This is a classic strawman, up there with you don't understand or you have no idea :yawn:, obviously if nothing is really real then real things are not real. Not very fucking helpful to those who really could benefit from a judicious application of science though!

Hang about - I didn't say "nothing is real" . We can not prove a link between what we claim we know and "reality". Big difference ...

I'm not hiding behind arguments or strawmen ... the inability to prove a link to "reality" is the basis of post-modernism ... and the shift to linguistics and discourse analysis ... even Kuhn, Feyerabend and Lakatos (all respected philosophers of science) agree that what we call "scientific knowledge" is agreed within the discourse of science - whoever has the best arguments has their ideas accepted as "current science" is the way that Feyerabend puts it ...

Lakatos and others do accept the efficacy of science - hard to argue with that really as we sit and communicate on computers ... but a use value is very different from a truth value (which does not exist).

[bogan]

OK. Now I get your point. I'm not convinced. The world produces 1.5 times the amount of food to feed the entire population. If we redistributed the food to everyone how would people continue to starve?



I could give you several answers - I won't. It pricks my conscience occasionally ...



Hang about - I didn't say "nothing is real" . We can not prove a link between what we claim we know and "reality". Big difference ...

I'm not hiding behind arguments or strawmen ... the inability to prove a link to "reality" is the basis of post-modernism ... and the shift to linguistics and discourse analysis ... even Kuhn, Feyerabend and Lakatos (all respected philosophers of science) agree that what we call "scientific knowledge" is agreed within the discourse of science - whoever has the best arguments has their ideas accepted as "current science" is the way that Feyerabend puts it ...

Lakatos and others do accept the efficacy of science - hard to argue with that really as we sit and communicate on computers ... but a use value is very different from a truth value (which does not exist).

Source?

Figured as much.

See, again you hide behind vagaries instead of addressing the point. I'm not interested science philosophy atm, it has its place; but that place is not one for you to hide behind.

[Gadget1]

Nope, just adding a little fun to a truism.

:rofl:... I wouldn't waste your time if I was you, although my proxy may be along shortly to back himself up :rofl: :crybaby: :rofl:


Paging Mr bitter and twisted, chip-on-the-shoulder for you on line one...

[Zedder]

Source?

Figured as much.

See, again you hide behind vagaries instead of addressing the point. I'm not interested science philosophy atm, it has its place; but that place is not one for you to hide behind.


Of course bogan, it's always easier to waffle on about philosophy rather than provide sources supported by scientific method.

[mashman]

Look what happens when you stop taking your pills. Your proxy? How effluent that makes you look.

Yes, my proxy. Never mind.

[mashman]

Paging Mr bitter and twisted, chip-on-the-shoulder for you on line one...

Ahhh, here's one who thinks himself enough of a proxy. A patch on both eyes.

[Zedder]

Paging Mr bitter and twisted, chip-on-the-shoulder for you on line one...

Yep, that sums it up nicely.

[Zedder]

Yes, my proxy. Never mind.

You should double your dosage.

[mashman]

Yep, that sums it up nicely.

Well, if you have fun, which I know you do, then you must be bitter and twisted also. New definition like, but fortunately I'm open to such things.

[Zedder]

Ahhh, here's one who thinks himself enough of a proxy. A patch on both eyes.

Thankfully there's more of us than your type.

[mashman]

You should double your dosage.

I would if I was in the position you infer.

[mashman]

Thankfully there's more of us than your type.

:killingme... so you've asked everyone then? The poll result thus far suggests otherwise.

[bogan]

:killingme... so you've asked everyone then? The poll result thus far suggests otherwise.

The poll thus far suggests you are the worst sort politician. Twisting statistics and the truth to suit your own corrupt ideals.

[Gadget1]

:killingme... so you've asked everyone then? The poll result thus far suggests otherwise.

Ask everyone? Duh! Just looking on here there's bogan, Ocean1 and Zedder plus me for a start so given KB is a microcosm, it's highly indicative of larger results.

[bogan]

Ask everyone? Duh! Just looking on here there's bogan, Ocean1 and Zedder plus me for a start so given KB is a microcosm, it's highly indicative of larger results.

Nah, mushy already counted me onto his team since I voted 'yes but it will never happen'

Given that I'm both counted on his side, and being the change he wishes to see, just makes me tingly inside...

[mashman]

The poll thus far suggests you are the worst sort politician. Twisting statistics and the truth to suit your own corrupt ideals.

I'm not a politician, that's why :weird:. Stop being so negative.

It does, however, show that the majority are able to look past the messenger :wari:


Ask everyone? Duh! Just looking on here there's bogan, Ocean1 and Zedder plus me for a start so given KB is a microcosm, it's highly indicative of larger results.

Awwwww, don't be such a sore loser. "I've" got the silent majority :niceone:. Although maybe you have a point... if so, what was it?


Nah, mushy already counted me onto his team since I voted 'yes but it will never happen'

I'm not that presumptive.

[Zedder]

Well, if you have fun, which I know you do, then you must be bitter and twisted also. New definition like, but fortunately I'm open to such things.

Lol, your version of fun is diametrically opposed to mine I'd think.

[mashman]

Lol, your version of fun is diametrically opposed to mine I'd think.

If that's what you choose to think, then that is all you will ever think. Do you need an extra eye patch so that you too can be one of the many many many many proxy's that know what I'm thinking better than I do. You fit the profile.

[bogan]

I'm not a politician, that's why :weird:. Stop being so negative.

It does, however, show that the majority are able to look past the messenger :wari:

I'm not that presumptive.

You can still be a politician with fuck all followers, which is exactly what you are.

Which majority?

Any time you count that category as being in favor of a moneyless system, you presume exactly that.

[Zedder]

If that's what you choose to think, then that is all you will ever think. Do you need an extra eye patch so that you too can be one of the many many many many proxy's that know what I'm thinking better than I do. You fit the profile.

I was being polite. To be blunt, I wouldn't want anything to do with your "fun".

Here's more info on what's going on with humanitarian organisations like Mercy Corps. Warning:There's good news so you probably won't like that:http://www.france24.com/en/20150522-france-law-supermarkets-donate-unsold-food-charities

[Gadget1]

Nah, mushy already counted me onto his team since I voted 'yes but it will never happen'

Given that I'm both counted on his side, and being the change he wishes to see, just makes me tingly inside...


Lol, what a dreamer he is!

[bogan]

Lol, what a dreamer he is!

Indeed, I wonder why he chooses to think such negative things about reality though... Surely given the choice you would think positive :scratch:

[Gadget1]

Indeed, I wonder why he chooses to think such negative things about reality though... Surely given the choice you would think positive :scratch:


It's easy for some people to be positive...

[mashman]

You can still be a politician with fuck all followers, which is exactly what you are.

Which majority?

Any time you count that category as being in favor of a moneyless system, you presume exactly that.

No I'm not.

You brought it up and you've forgotten already. Was using your same criteria but putting a positive spin on it.

No, it's an assumption as I am more than aware that people could change their minds. What I do take into consideration though, is that making such a decision isn't something one does lightly so on the balance of probabilities, I presume that those minds are highly unlikely to change. But then again, my skewed thinking knows does no bounds.

[Gadget1]

I was being polite. To be blunt, I wouldn't want anything to do with your "fun".

Here's more info on what's going on with humanitarian organisations like Mercy Corps. Warning:There's good news so you probably won't like that:http://www.france24.com/en/20150522-france-law-supermarkets-donate-unsold-food-charities


Great to see that and from a Government too. You can wind down now mashman, things are looking better.

[bogan]

No I'm not.

You brought it up and you've forgotten already. Was using your same criteria but putting a positive spin on it.

No, it's an assumption as I am more than aware that people could change their minds. What I do take into consideration though, is that making such a decision isn't something one does lightly so on the balance of probabilities, I presume that those minds are highly unlikely to change. But then again, my skewed thinking knows does no bounds.

You using you own definition for this one then, the dictionary tells a different story.

So, misleading stats, then evasion to cover up such misleading... not, not sounding like a politician at all :killingme

Your interpretation of public opinion is based on the presumption that said opinion will change in your favour. Well done mashy, just, well done. :rofl:

[mashman]

I was being polite. To be blunt, I wouldn't want anything to do with your "fun".

Here's more info on what's going on with humanitarian organisations like Mercy Corps. Warning:There's good news so you probably won't like that:http://www.france24.com/en/20150522-france-law-supermarkets-donate-unsold-food-charities

Cool.......... In which case :D

You haven't got a fuckin clue what I would consider good news. It is great to see them following the example of the dumpster divers and getting the "waste" out to the community where it's needed. Why are these practices led by the dumpster divers? How long have they been dumping it in the bin for when they know that there's people who could do with it? Lemme guess, you'll throw up some bullshit about encouraging dependency. Well it did just that, except it was facilitated by dumpster divers doing a good deed. The reason it wasn't led by the corporates/govt and their fantastically well paid think tanks/focus groups/lobby groups etc... is because it costs MONEY to distribute that could otherwise got towards useful things like paying people for think tanks/focus groups/lobby groups. What I would like to know is, what's encouraged the sudden change of heart?

Oh yeah, fuck you and your shite mind reading skills.

[mashman]

Great to see that and from a Government too. You can wind down now mashman, things are looking better.

:rofl: down proxy, down.

[mashman]

You using you own definition for this one then, the dictionary tells a different story.

So, misleading stats, then evasion to cover up such misleading... not, not sounding like a politician at all :killingme

Your interpretation of public opinion is based on the presumption that said opinion will change in your favour. Well done mashy, just, well done. :rofl:

:yawn:

:yawn:

It can't change unless it is offered change :facepalm: enjoy your fail.

[Zedder]

Cool.......... In which case :D

You haven't got a fuckin clue what I would consider good news. It is great to see them following the example of the dumpster divers and getting the "waste" out to the community where it's needed. Why are these practices led by the dumpster divers? How long have they been dumping it in the bin for when they know that there's people who could do with it? Lemme guess, you'll throw up some bullshit about encouraging dependency. Well it did just that, except it was facilitated by dumpster divers doing a good deed. The reason it wasn't led by the corporates/govt and their fantastically well paid think tanks/focus groups/lobby groups etc... is because it costs MONEY to distribute that could otherwise got towards useful things like paying people for think tanks/focus groups/lobby groups. What I would like to know is, what's encouraged the sudden change of heart?

Oh yeah, fuck you and your shite mind reading skills.

Well seeing as you post link after link about "white muthafuckers" and negative crap, you are very wrong about that. Your posts are rarely positive and your attitude is shit.

Change of heart? It's all down to you isn't it?

[bogan]

:yawn:

:yawn:

It can't change unless it is offered change :facepalm: enjoy your fail.

A valid point, except the presumption that the change you offer is any different from the many offered before is unsubstantiated.

Or to put it another way, how many that you would count on your side have switched after reading what you put forward? and how many have gone the other way? time for another poll if you were interested in the truth, if you are just a politician interested in massaging the stats, then no fuhrer poll is required. I won't hold my breath :killingme:

[mashman]

Well seeing as you post link after link about "white muthafuckers" and negative crap, you are very wrong about that. Your posts are rarely positive and your attitude is shit.

Change of heart? It's all down to you isn't it?

It's not negative crap. What is my definition of a white muthafucka?

I thought it was dumpster divers.

[Gadget1]

:rofl: down proxy, down.

Don't they have sarcasm in the place you're from? I think Ocean1 wasn't far off the mark, I'd pick the UK too but not sure actually where. All the hallmarks are there though.

Apologies to all others.

[Brian d marge]

Of course bogan, it's always easier to waffle on about philosophy rather than provide sources supported by scientific method.
Which mr b fails to do

[Gadget1]

It's not negative crap. What is my definition of a white muthafucka?

I thought it was dumpster divers.

I've seen more positive posts today on this thread than I've seen in the last month and they haven't been from you.

We've already posted about the white muthafucker bit when we were posting about the J versus j issue. Look it up.

[bogan]

It's not negative crap. What is my definition of a white muthafucka?

I thought it was dumpster divers.

He has regressed to using his own definitions of the words again. Not a bad firewall when you think about it.

[bogan]

Which mr b fails to do

And what would information would you like me to find a source/support for?

You seem to expect me to find it for 'information' you post, which I agree, I do not do; how can you expect me to when you cannot?

[mashman]

A valid point, except the presumption that the change you offer is any different from the many offered before is unsubstantiated.

Or to put it another way, how many that you would count on your side have switched after reading what you put forward? and how many have gone the other way? time for another poll if you were interested in the truth, if you are just a politician interested in massaging the stats, then no fuhrer poll is required. I won't hold my breath :killingme:

You've said yourself that you don't understand the change as I explain it, so, WTF are you talking about?

:facepalm: I appreciate that those who understand the concept of a money free world would understand that much of what I put forwards would be completely achievable if that society where indeed moneyless. I'm guessing that they also realise that I'm not saying it's my way or the highway either. But that's assumption for ya... I guess I'll just have to trust them.

[bogan]

You've said yourself that you don't understand the change as I explain it, so, WTF are you talking about?

:facepalm: I appreciate that those who understand the concept of a money free world would understand that much of what I put forwards would be completely achievable if that society where indeed moneyless. I'm guessing that they also realise that I'm not saying it's my way or the highway either. But that's assumption for ya... I guess I'll just have to trust them.

No, I understand what you say, I do not understand (and neither do you) how it will actually work.

I understand the concept, but also why it will not work, therefor you must count my opinion. How do you decide who understands and who does not? I know they understood that, as per the poll, what you are saying is the more people who hear your way, the more people will think that way; we have seen the opposite; unless you are game to verify it with another poll?

[mashman]

Don't they have sarcasm in the place you're from? I think Ocean1 wasn't far off the mark, I'd pick the UK too but not sure actually where. All the hallmarks are there though.

Apologies to all others.

Dunno... but you took my down proxy seriously? I'll be the first in line to congratulate him when he is.

I promise you, they won't really have noticed.

[mashman]

Which mr b fails to do

But it is entertaining.

[mashman]

I've seen more positive posts today on this thread than I've seen in the last month and they haven't been from you.

We've already posted about the white muthafucker bit when we were posting about the J versus j issue. Look it up.

Cool.

I wasn't talking to you was I?

[Brian d marge]

Thankfully there's more of us than your type.
Frankly I doubt it

And if ya need evidence . ,just peek out them windows
Or take head out of sand

Hows those prices over there . . .in airstrip one . . .,with the windmill and all
Hahahahahahahahahaaaaa

Yours truely

Benjamin, the cynical donkey

[Brian d marge]

Cool.......... In which case :D

You haven't got a fuckin clue what I would consider good news. It is great to see them following the example of the dumpster divers and getting the "waste" out to the community where it's needed. Why are these practices led by the dumpster divers? How long have they been dumping it in the bin for when they know that there's people who could do with it? Lemme guess, you'll throw up some bullshit about encouraging dependency. Well it did just that, except it was facilitated by dumpster divers doing a good deed. The reason it wasn't led by the corporates/govt and their fantastically well paid think tanks/focus groups/lobby groups etc... is because it costs MONEY to distribute that could otherwise got towards useful things like paying people for think tanks/focus groups/lobby groups. What I would like to know is, what's encouraged the sudden change of heart?

Oh yeah, fuck you and your shite mind reading skills.
France has just outlawed food waste

[Brian d marge]

But it is entertaining.
If your into s and m or banging ya willie in the door for shits and giggles

I could imagine it is . . .,

[mashman]

I do not understand (and neither do you) how it will actually work.

I understand the concept, but also why it will not work,

therefor you must count my opinion.

How do you decide who understands and who does not? I know they understood that, as per the poll,

On the evidence produced above I certainly can discount your opinion.



what you are saying is the more people who hear your way, the more people will think that way; we have seen the opposite; unless you are game to verify it with another poll?

No, I am saying something completely different. You are making me laugh though.

You want to publish a poll, then do it. The jury is in (and not just on KB).

[Gadget1]

Dunno... but you took my down proxy seriously? I'll be the first in line to congratulate him when he is.

I promise you, they won't really have noticed.


Maybe I need to post "pending sarcasm" or "just joking mashman" before something like that in future.

[mashman]

If your into s and m or banging ya willie in the door for shits and giggles

I could imagine it is . . .,

:killingme... can't do that all the time though as the kids complain.

[mashman]

Maybe I need to post "pending sarcasm" or "just joking mashman" before something like that in future.

Nah fuckdat. Let me feel the fail of getting it wrong.

[Gadget1]

Cool.

I wasn't talking to you was I?

We had specific posts about it that's why I responded and this is an open forum.

You can PM me if you'd rather, then you can post things like "I'll murder dissenters like you in their sleep" etc like you've done to others before.

[bogan]

On the evidence produced above I certainly can discount your opinion.



No, I am saying something completely different. You are making me laugh though.

You want to publish a poll, then do it. The jury is in (and not just on KB).

Evidence being that I think it will not work. Confirmation bias much :laugh:

You often say that, funny how often you say it just as I have drilled right down to the crux of your position and we both see it for the untennable one it is.

It would do no good, as you discount anything that comes from me due to your confirmation bias; I think if you posted one it would be more interesting due to that elimination.

The jury is in, and it is money all the way baby. NZ, US, JP, we love the stuff, even communist china is getting into it in a big way.

[Zedder]

Frankly I doubt it

And if ya need evidence . ,just peek out them windows
Or take head out of sand

Hows those prices over there . . .in airstrip one . . .,with the windmill and all
Hahahahahahahahahaaaaa

Yours truely

Benjamin, the cynical donkey

Fuck you're a dickhead. However, with a username which is "brain damage" rearranged I'm not surprised.

[Katman]

Fuck you're a dickhead.

<img src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ytZKez17E50/UDp9frt9fGI/AAAAAAAAAjY/53VLcSJNtoA/s1600/379.jpg"/>

[mashman]

We had specific posts about it that's why I responded and this is an open forum.

You can PM me if you'd rather, then you can post things like "I'll murder dissenters like you in their sleep" etc like you've done to others before.

Say what you have to say.

[mashman]

Evidence being that I think it will not work. Confirmation bias much :laugh:

You often say that, funny how often you say it just as I have drilled right down to the crux of your position and we both see it for the untennable one it is.

It would do no good, as you discount anything that comes from me due to your confirmation bias; I think if you posted one it would be more interesting due to that elimination.

The jury is in, and it is money all the way baby. NZ, US, JP, we love the stuff, even communist china is getting into it in a big way.

You are not a part of my decision making. How I answer you, is. Oddly enough I've posted a few, and an entire website not dedicated to you :shit: narcissist.

Temporary measure money.



what you are saying is the more people who hear your way, the more people will think that way; we have seen the opposite; unless you are game to verify it with another poll?

What I was saying is that people are free to think what they like. I offer information and expect that people will make their own minds up. If they agree, whoopdee go figure, some people agree and likewise with those who disagree. So no, I was saying something completely different. Poll anything you like.

[bogan]

You are not a part of my decision making. How I answer you, is. Oddly enough I've posted a few, and an entire website not dedicated to you :shit: narcissist.

Temporary measure money.



What I was saying is that people are free to think what they like. I offer information and expect that people will make their own minds up. If they agree, whoopdee go figure, some people agree and likewise with those who disagree. So no, I was saying something completely different. Poll anything you like.

Posted a few whats? people who agree with you? No shit, what you fail to do is show any sort of significant number.

Maybe, doesn't change how many people choose it over the alternatives.

They are, and they do, and they have heard of money free systems, and they still choose money. That is why you are too scared to poll the question; you treasure the illusion that the reality is otherwise.

[Zedder]

To think I spoke up for you when Ocean1 was on your case.