My first poll for the NZ public

[Tazz]

Donald trump

Self funded

There is a chance he may not have any puppet masters behind him

Sad but . . .

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

Probably doesn't belong here, but meh....

http://flavorwire.com/537887/who-said-it-presidential-hopeful-donald-trump-or-idiocracy-president-camacho

[bogan]

Probably doesn't belong here, but meh....

http://flavorwire.com/537887/who-said-it-presidential-hopeful-donald-trump-or-idiocracy-president-camacho

Excellent, and the 'quiz' was too easy :bleh:

[mashman]

Probably doesn't belong here, but meh....

http://flavorwire.com/537887/who-said-it-presidential-hopeful-donald-trump-or-idiocracy-president-camacho

It may well be... although it sounds more like Stupid World, users choice :D

ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa... wonder if he's got enough puff to get across the line.

[mashman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVsCnk1b5qc

[mashman]

It can go in here for the positive vibe.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEzSzptjS40

[Ocean1]

Capitalism is failing and it's time to panic

Said the disaffected, failed communist...

[oldrider]

Said the disaffected, failed communist...

All the ism's fail not because of themselves but because as the host they can not bear the tax imposed by the parasites sucking on their distribution (money) system!

[Ocean1]

All the ism's fail not because of themselves but because as the host they can not bear the tax imposed by the parasites sucking on their distribution (money) system!

It's just another label John, don't sweat it. The salient point is that the collective ideologies associated with the communist and socialist brands have all failed, whereas those generally aligned with the capitalist label are now the most successful societies the planet's ever seen.

Unless you're a parasite.

[oldrider]

It's just another label John, don't sweat it. The salient point is that the collective ideologies associated with the communist and socialist brands have all failed, whereas those generally aligned with the capitalist label are now the most successful societies the planet's ever seen.

Unless you're a parasite.

The parasites that I refer to take down the host no matter what ism is in vogue but I agree - all the indicators are that capitalism is the most successful to-date!

[Akzle]

as those generally aligned with the capitalist label are now the most successful societies the planet's ever seen.

fucken queer yardstick you have.

[mashman]

fucken queer yardstick you have.

He said his yardstick is sustainability :killingme... no irony picture could convey the hyperironyness.

[mashman]

Said the disaffected, failed communist...

Only in your wet dreams it would seem.

[Ocean1]

He said his yardstick is sustainability :killingme... no irony picture could convey the hyperironyness.

Tell me again about the ancient socialist societies leading all of the current indicators for international success.

[mashman]

Tell me again about the ancient socialist societies leading all of the current indicators for international success.

Perhaps you lied when you said that your yardstick was sustainability?, weasel.

[Ocean1]

Perhaps you lied when you said that your yardstick was sustainability?, weasel.

You must have missed school the day they explained that sustainability meant sticking around for a while.

Bit ironic eh?

[mashman]

You must have missed school the day they explained that sustainability meant sticking around for a while.

Bit ironic eh?

Nah, the irony is you forgetting that if we had died out because we hadn't used capitalism, then we wouldn't be here. Maybe that's just a miracle :rolleyes:

[Voltaire]

What value does the Banking System add?, seems to be a lot of overpaid execs doing fuck all for lots of money....

[Ocean1]

What value does the Banking System add?, seems to be a lot of overpaid execs doing fuck all for lots of money....

Overpaid execs? Aye, seems nobody's really sure if they're giving anyone good value for their money.

Banking system? Well, almost all private debt in NZ is mortgages. So without them, (or some reasonable facsimile thereof) fuck all of us would have a house.

[Akzle]

Overpaid execs? Aye, seems nobody's really sure if they're giving anyone good value for their money.

Banking system? Well, almost all private debt in NZ is mortgages. So without them, (or some reasonable facsimile thereof) fuck all of us would have a house.

i dont think you comprehend.

Without mortgages.... Every cunt would probably have a haus.

[Akzle]

What value does the Banking System add?, seems to be a lot of overpaid execs doing fuck all for lots of money....

hush now. Keep thinking (like that) and you might end up knowing something...

[Voltaire]

hush now. Keep thinking (like that) and you might end up knowing something...

I don't waste too much time thinking about things I can't control, that's what internet forums are for... moaning about stuff....now has the Missus ironed my shirt for tomorrow and is my laptop charged up ready for hard day of emails and spreadsheets ;)

[Ocean1]

i dont think you comprehend.

Whereas I'm certain you haven't got a clue.


Without mortgages.... Every cunt would probably have a haus.

Yeah probably. How's that working for you, dude?

[Brian d marge]

It's just another label John, don't sweat it. The salient point is that the collective ideologies associated with the communist and socialist brands have all failed, whereas those generally aligned with the capitalist label are now the most successful societies the planet's ever seen.

Unless you're a parasite.
Oh please explain socialism and communism . . .as you see to be familiar with them

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[mashman]

i dont think you comprehend.

Without mortgages.... Every cunt would have a haus.

+1....................

[Voltaire]

Oh please explain socialism and communism . . .as you see to be familiar with them

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

I was in the USSR briefly in 1989. Communism is where the population throws out a Monarchy or other system, a small group say they are not like them and will share the power.
The small group then run the place into the ground as using a stick is less motivating than using a carrot, and they hog what little wealth the poorly run state enterprises generate...oh and add corruption , lots of that.
Its a rubbish idea and best in the dustbin of history.
Moscow and Leningrad had some nice buildings but the Soviet era added nothing.

Socialism, in hindsight I think New Zealand had that up until Roger Fucking Douglas and his lot got into power.
Could not buy anything from overseas
Had to buy Made in New Zealand inferior products so as to keep work in the provinces
Houses were places you lived in rather than bought and sold for huge profits.
Public transport was what you used when the car was broken.

[mashman]

I was in the USSR briefly in 1989. Communism is where the population throws out a Monarchy or other system, a small group say they are not like them and will share the power.
The small group then run the place into the ground as using a stick is less motivating than using a carrot, and they hog what little wealth the poorly run state enterprises generate...oh and add corruption , lots of that.
Its a rubbish idea and best in the dustbin of history.
Moscow and Leningrad had some nice buildings but the Soviet era added nothing.

Socialism, in hindsight I think New Zealand had that up until Roger Fucking Douglas and his lot got into power.
Could not buy anything from overseas
Had to buy Made in New Zealand inferior products so as to keep work in the provinces
Houses were places you lived in rather than bought and sold for huge profits.
Public transport was what you used when the car was broken.

Not a rubbish idea, just a useless system under which to try it.

Not a rubbish idea, just a useless system under which to try it.

Spot the commonality ;).

[Voltaire]

Not a rubbish idea, just a useless system under which to try it.

Not a rubbish idea, just a useless system under which to try it.

Spot the commonality ;).

Well given the people who end up running places that try these systems, Adolf ( get in twubble for uttering his full name), Lenin, Mao, Ho and so on, your never going to get the Socialist/Communist Eutopia that dreamers dream of...a land where eveyone does their bit for the common good and all are equal.

I used to think the nearest anyone has come to that was England during the Blitz, but then apparently there were teams of looters and others disguised as Fire Wardens, with fake ambulances and so on.

People eh...:wacko:

[mashman]

Well given the people who end up running places that try these systems, Adolf ( get in twubble for uttering his full name), Lenin, Mao, Ho and so on, your never going to get the Socialist/Communist Eutopia that dreamers dream of...a land where eveyone does their bit for the common good and all are equal.

I used to think the nearest anyone has come to that was England during the Blitz, but then apparently there were teams of looters and others disguised as Fire Wardens, with fake ambulances and so on.

People eh...:wacko:

You've just described exactly what we have. The power in the hands of a few over the many. Decisions don't have to be made so, but the vested interest needs to be removed in order to get a "fair" result. Vested interest = money. There is no way to remove vested interest whilst money exists as the mechanism of trade. It's simply illogical to believe that we don't already live the way that you describe ;).

All because they could sell/trade it on for something they'd need eh. Shame all of the shit wasn't free, coz there was "enough" to go around, obviously.

People are ace... tis the financial system that twists what they're prepared to do in order to get ahead :laugh:

[Voltaire]

You've just described exactly what we have. The power in the hands of a few over the many. Decisions don't have to be made so, but the vested interest needs to be removed in order to get a "fair" result. Vested interest = money. There is no way to remove vested interest whilst money exists as the mechanism of trade. It's simply illogical to believe that we don't already live the way that you describe ;).

All because they could sell/trade it on for something they'd need eh. Shame all of the shit wasn't free, coz there was "enough" to go around, obviously.

People are ace... tis the financial system that twists what they're prepared to do in order to get ahead :laugh:

The current systems have been around since.....at least Egyptian times, some one at the top....lots of slaves at the bottom. These days it chained to a desk 8 hours a day and fed

Tele in the evenings. Still 3 weeks in India soon may give me an appreciation for the current system.;)

[Akzle]

Tele in the evenings. Still 3 weeks in India soon may give me an appreciation for the current system.;)

or ghonnoroea.

[mashman]

The current systems have been around since.....at least Egyptian times, some one at the top....lots of slaves at the bottom. These days it chained to a desk 8 hours a day and fed

Tele in the evenings. Still 3 weeks in India soon may give me an appreciation for the current system.;)

Aye... not really much of a fan of the hours, but when needs must.

India. Noice. Must do that one day.

[FJRider]

or ghonnoroea.

or ... Gonorrhea.

English your second language .. ??:whistle:

[Akzle]

or ... Gonorrhea.

English your second language .. ??:whistle:

ne'er had much occasion to need to spell it...:bleh:

[FJRider]

ne'er had much occasion to need to spell it...:bleh:

I have no doubt of your lack of need to spell it .. the medical staff that treated you for it ... would be more educated than you anyway ... :pinch:

[Brian d marge]

I was in the USSR briefly in 1989. Communism is where the population throws out a Monarchy or other system, a small group say they are not like them and will share the power.
The small group then run the place into the ground as using a stick is less motivating than using a carrot, and they hog what little wealth the poorly run state enterprises generate...oh and add corruption , lots of that.
Its a rubbish idea and best in the dustbin of history.
Moscow and Leningrad had some nice buildings but the Soviet era added nothing.

Socialism, in hindsight I think New Zealand had that up until Roger Fucking Douglas and his lot got into power.
Could not buy anything from overseas
Had to buy Made in New Zealand inferior products so as to keep work in the provinces
Houses were places you lived in rather than bought and sold for huge profits.
Public transport was what you used when the car was broken.
Might not have been socialism or even communisim
More totalitarian

Now one does wonder where the money came from

Lenin wasnt exactly a donald trump and the pesants needed cake

[emoji33]



Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[Voltaire]

Might not have been socialism or even communisim
More totalitarian

Now one does wonder where the money came from

Lenin wasnt exactly a donald trump and the pesants needed cake

[emoji33]



Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

If WW1 was now, it would be a case of the US and the UK funding a known terrorist to overthrow the Russian Govt so as to win the war against Germany, and of course once done they would fall in line with the UK and US way of doing business.
I can't be bothered Googling it but that's the most likely scenario....oh and US Jewish money and some Zionists were probably involved and oh Big Oil.

[mashman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYIgu16rwbI

Ends@1:22

[oldrider]

If WW1 was now, it would be a case of the US and the UK funding a known terrorist to overthrow the Russian Govt so as to win the war against Germany, and of course once done they would fall in line with the UK and US way of doing business.
I can't be bothered Googling it but that's the most likely scenario....oh and US Jewish money and some Zionists were probably involved and oh Big Oil.

There is never a shortage of money to finance war - that only happens in peace time!

WW1 was similar to the current war on terror - safely concentrated over there and continuously making money!

Germany had all but won WW1 when the Zionists made a deal with the allies to influence USA into the war in exchange for Palestine! (Now Israel)

Balfour declaration 1917: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

That's part of the reason why Germany had such a shit on with the Jews after WW1.

History behind the Balfour Declaration: http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p389_John.html

[husaberg]

There is never a shortage of money to finance war - that only happens in peace time!

WW1 was similar to the current war on terror - safely concentrated over there and continuously making money!

Germany had all but won WW1 when the Zionists made a deal with the allies to influence USA into the war in exchange for Palestine! (Now Israel)

Balfour declaration 1917: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

That's part of the reason why Germany had such a shit on with the Jews after WW1.

History behind the Balfour Declaration: http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p389_John.html

Wow that's a pretty selective view of History Oldie
You missed a few points there.


The Treaty of Versailles and the 1921 London Schedule of Payments required Germany to pay 132 billion gold marks (US$33 billion) in reparations to cover civilian damage caused during the war. This figure was divided into three categories of bonds: A, B, and C. Of these, Germany was only required to pay towards 'A' and 'B' bonds totalling 50 billion marks (US$12.5 billion).
The remaining 'C' bonds, which Germany did not have to pay, were designed to deceive the Anglo-French public into believing Germany was being heavily fined and punished for the war.

Because of the lack of reparation payments by Germany, France occupied the Ruhr in 1923 to enforce payments, causing an international crisis that resulted in the implementation of the Dawes Plan in 1924.
This plan outlined a new payment method and raised international loans to help Germany to meet her reparation commitments.
Despite this, by 1928 Germany called for a new payment plan, resulting in the Young Plan that established the German reparation requirements at 112 billion marks (US$26.3 billion) and created a schedule of payments that would see Germany complete payments by 1988. With the collapse of the German economy in 1931, reparations were suspended for a year and in 1932 during the Lausanne Conference they were cancelled altogether
. Between 1919 and 1932, Germany paid less than 21 billion marks in reparations.



Because of the lack of reparation payments by Germany, France occupied the Ruhr in 1923 to enforce payments, causing an international crisis that resulted in the implementation of the Dawes Plan in 1924. This plan outlined a new payment method and raised international loans to help Germany to meet her reparation commitments. Despite this, by 1928 Germany called for a new payment plan, resulting in the Young Plan that established the German reparation requirements at 112 billion marks (US$26.3 billion) and created a schedule of payments that would see Germany complete payments by 1988. With the collapse of the German economy in 1931, reparations were suspended for a year and in 1932 during the Lausanne Conference they were cancelled altogether. Between 1919 and 1932, Germany paid less than 21 billion marks in reparations.


Note the other countries paid proportionally more in many cases

Between the signing of the Treaty of Neuilly-sur-Seine and April 1922, Bulgaria paid 173 million gold francs in reparations.[48]
In 1923, the Bulgarian reparation sum was revised downwards to 550 million gold francs, "plus a lump sum payment of 25 million francs for occupation costs".[49] Towards this figure,
Bulgaria paid 41 million gold francs between 1925 and 1929. In 1932, the Bulgarian reparation obligation was abandoned following the Lausanne Conference.[50]

Because Austria was "so impoverished" after the war, and because of the collapse of the Bank of Vienna, the country paid no reparations "beyond credits for transferred property".[49][51] Likewise, Hungary paid no reparations beyond coal deliveries because of the collapse of the Hungarian economy.[49][52] Turkish reparations had been "sharply limited in view of the magnitude of Turkish territorial losses". However, the Treaty of Sèvres was never ratified. When the Treaty of Lausanne was signed in 1923, Turkish reparations were "eliminated altogether".[49]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_reparations


The price of the war reparations pale in significance compared to the cost of the Peenemunde base for V weapon development.

The German V-weapons (V-1 and V-2) cost the equivalent of around USD $40 billion (2015 dollars), which was 50 per cent more than the Manhattan Project that produced the atomic bomb.[10]:178 6,048 V-2s were built, at a cost of approximately 100,000 Reichsmarks (GB£2,370,000 (2011)) each; 3,225 were launched. SS General Hans Kammler, who as an engineer had constructed several concentration camps including Auschwitz, had a reputation for brutality and had originated the idea of using concentration camp prisoners as slave laborers in the rocket program. More people died manufacturing the V-2 than were killed by its deployment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-2_rocket

[oldrider]

I don't like to waste space with cut and paste - if anybody is interested or so inclined they can look it up for themselves.

Most people today think Israel has always been there and have no idea how much effort and anguish it took to get it established. :confused:

[husaberg]

I don't like to waste space with cut and paste - if anybody is interested or so inclined they can look it up for themselves.

Most people today think Israel has always been there and have no idea how much effort and anguish it took to get it established. :confused:

Did you actually waste the time and read it?
Did you know the reparations were so little compared to there other projects
Did you realise how little of it they actually paid.
The War reparations being so crippling is just Nazi and KKK Propaganda.


There is never a shortage of money to finance war - that only happens in peace time!

WW1 was similar to the current war on terror - safely concentrated over there and continuously making money!

Germany had all but won WW1 when the Zionists made a deal with the allies to influence USA into the war in exchange for Palestine! (Now Israel)

Balfour declaration 1917: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

That's part of the reason why Germany had such a shit on with the Jews after WW1.

History behind the Balfour Declaration: http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p389_John.html

Out of interest Oldie how many of the millions of men women and children that the Nazis excucated during WW2 were bankers that supposedly according to you profited out of the ww1 reparations
have a think about it and then consider how racist and bigoted some of the stuff that you post is.

[oldrider]

I think you overestimate yourself - who appointed you KB history and thought police? :rolleyes:

[husaberg]

I think you overestimate yourself - who appointed you KB history and thought police? :rolleyes:

I wonder how many separate people have to say that what you post is racist before you finally figure out that what you post is both bigoted and racist.
Shame you never bothered to answer any of the questions it might have caused you to stop for a second and think.

[oldrider]

I wonder how many separate people have to say that what you post is racist before you finally figure out that what you post is both bigoted and racist.
Shame you never bothered to answer any of the questions it might have caused you to stop for a second and think.

Go and have a look at the man in the mirror - let he who is without sin cast the first stone! - Religious based comment - I think! ;)

[bogan]

Go and have a look at the man in the mirror - let he who is without sin cast the first stone! - Religious based comment - I think! ;)

Who calls husaberg racist?

Reckon you're up about 10:1 on that count :rolleyes:

[husaberg]

Go and have a look at the man in the mirror - let he who is without sin cast the first stone! - Religious based comment - I think! ;)

Still avoiding the questions then.
funny enough as I am neither Jewish or religious. I can call you racist and bigoted when ever I feel like it without any qualms at all.
I doubt many or likely any other the others that also call you racist or bigoted are Jewish or religious either

[oldrider]

Still avoiding the questions then.
funny enough as I am neither Jewish or religious. I can call you racist and bigoted when ever I feel like it without any qualms at all.
I doubt many or likely any other the others that also call you racist or bigoted are Jewish or religious either

Who said that you were Jewish? - who in fact said you were anything? - Others? - what others? :rolleyes: You might be a little delusional! :scratch:

[husaberg]

Who said that you were Jewish? - who in fact said you were anything? - Others? - what others? :rolleyes: You might be a little delusional! :scratch:

So are you suggesting no one else has told you what you have posted is racist on KB then Oldie



Well you've been better of late, but you got labeled as such for bullshit like saying "90% of the worlds finances are controlled by Jews" which I believe is more or less a direct quote, and it was in the context of financial oppression etc; and you backed it up by just saying, it's gotta be around that I reckon.

If you think that is the same as someone saying that some zionist's are terrorists/commit crimes against humanity/war crimes/evil/shitcunts; you need your fucking head read.

Where do you get this crap from?

Also you still haven't dished up your proof on the "myth of anti-Semitism " you ignorant old bigot.

I say it and I am branded anti-Semitic!.

Truth hurts eh. Perhaps instead of being dark about being called an anti-semitic bigot, you could make an attempt to stop being one :scratch:

too much to cover in a short post

on being a bigot - what inferences you draw are your concern. from your posts I infer that you are a tad one-eyed about Israel; hence my sending you up. that sort of tunnel vision CAN imply bigotry - suggest if the cap fits ........... :shifty:

?


You generally seem to be a grown-up, but ranting like the above just makes you look like a jerk and a bigot. What's the point?


Think on that while you avoid the questions some more. Also take a moment to consider what motivates you to post the same bigoted one sided rubbish over and over again.

[mashman]

I wonder how many separate people have to say that what you post is racist before you finally figure out that what you post is both bigoted and racist.
Shame you never bothered to answer any of the questions it might have caused you to stop for a second and think.

Fuckin idiot.

[mashman]

Who calls husaberg racist?

Reckon you're up about 10:1 on that count :rolleyes:

Oh shit, the fuckin idiot train must have alighted.

[bogan]

Fuckin idiot.


Oh shit, the fuckin idiot train must have alighted.

Did you learn a new insult recently? Perhaps better to learn how the world works instead...

And just how are you shitters tracking for a 'money free party' <s>elected</s> making it on the ballot next time around :killingme

[husaberg]

Fuckin idiot.

True suggesting he stops and thinks was a little naïve.:rolleyes:


Who calls husaberg racist?

Reckon you're up about 10:1 on that count :rolleyes:

I must be racist otherwise why would I keep suggesting what he posts is racist when I am not the target race or religion of his outbursts.:lol:

[mashman]

Did you learn a new insult recently? Perhaps better to learn how the world works instead...

And just how are you shitters tracking for a 'money free party' <s>elected</s> making it on the ballot next time around :killingme


True suggesting he stops and thinks was a little naïve.:rolleyes:

It's the truth. If you take offence to that, then that's your problem.

[husaberg]

It's the truth. If you take offence to that, then that's your problem.

If it was true then he would have some sort of evidence or he would be able to present it without racial bias. Yet he can't and he doesn't.

[bogan]

It's the truth. If you take offence to that, then that's your problem.

Offense? To understand why we don't get offended you must first understand its your truth. Which is just an opinion. Since you are a worthless individual, so is your opinion; thus nullifying your truth. Thus negating any possibility of us being offended by things you say.

Case in point, you fuckwits and your 'money is evil truth' haven't even got on the ballot yet :facepalm:

[Katman]

Offense? To understand why we don't get offended you must first understand its your truth. Which is just an opinion. Since you are a worthless individual, so is your opinion; thus nullifying your truth. Thus negating any possibility of us being offended by things you say.


Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

[mashman]

If it was true then he would have some sort of evidence or he would be able to present it without racial bias. Yet he can't and he doesn't.

No. I meant it was true that you're a fuckin idiot.


Offense? To understand why we don't get offended you must first understand its your truth. Which is just an opinion. Since you are a worthless individual, so is your opinion; thus nullifying your truth. Thus negating any possibility of us being offended by things you say.

Case in point, you fuckwits and your 'money is evil truth' haven't even got on the ballot yet :facepalm:

bwaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaa... that's all you have? Like I said, you're a fuckin idiot.

[bogan]

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

No, I'm just a helpful person, and believe in giving everyone a chance to learn.

Oh, and before you post silly pictures of ironing boards or insults; no KM they are not learning tools. Learning relies on explanation and discussion, information, etc.

[mashman]

Methinks the ladyboy doth protest too much.

Fixed for ya.

[Katman]

Fixed for ya.

Don't be silly.

Bogan has no balls.

[bogan]

all you have? Like I said, you're a fuckin idiot.

Well you can lead a horse to water... but he still won't get a drink if he keeps licking the windows.


Fixed for ya.

Sorry, I see my intellect has intimidated you into a mindless rage. I'll leave you to it.

[mashman]

Well you can lead a horse to water... but he still won't get a drink if he keeps licking the windows.

Sorry, I see my intellect has intimidated you into a mindless rage. I'll leave you to it.

bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaa... claims enlightenment - calls some guy on the internet racist and bigoted :killingme. Stop licking the windows dickhead.

You're right. The family is lying in a pool of blood because of you... but it was quick, the night is young and I have neighbours.

[mashman]

Don't be silly.

Bogan has no balls.

:killingme fair call.

[husaberg]

No. I meant it was true that you're a fuckin idiot.



bwaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaa... that's all you have? Like I said, you're a fuckin idiot.

I outsmarted you what does that make you then or didn't you notice:lol:

[mashman]

I outsmarted you what does that make you then or didn't you notice:lol:

We were talking about you. Your deflection is noted. Yes you are smarter than me, which, conversely, makes you even more of a fuckin idiot than I.

[husaberg]

We were talking about you. Your deflection is noted. Yes you are smarter than me, which, conversely, makes you even more of a fuckin idiot than I.

Nice try but you missed the conversion.

[mashman]

Nice try but you missed the conversion.

That happens when you keep moving the posts in order to, supposedly, raise the bar.

[oldrider]

So are you suggesting no one else has told you what you have posted is racist on KB then Oldie






Think on that while you avoid the questions some more. Also take a moment to consider what motivates you to post the same bigoted one sided rubbish over and over again.

Like I said - what others? :scratch:

[husaberg]

Like I said - what others? :scratch:
What other reason you post the bigoted shit No idea.
If you are meaning who also has said you are racist Bogan, Oscar, mstriumph, Rainman likely heaps more also have and do call you a racist or a bigot.
Don't worry if other racist bigots like Yokel Axkel or Katman say you are not a racist that will prove you are not.:killingme

[Katman]

What other reason you post the bigoted shit No idea.
If you are meaning who also has said you are racist Bogan, Oscar, mstriumph likely heaps more also have and do call you a racist or a bigot.
Don't worry if other racist bigots like Yokel Axkel or Katman say you are not a racist that will prove you are not.:killingme

You should start a poll.

[oldrider]

What other reason you post the bigoted shit No idea.
If you are meaning who also has said you are racist Bogan, Oscar, mstriumph, Rainman likely heaps more also have and do call you a racist or a bigot.

Again - like I said - "nobody" - except mstriumph that is - I recognise her as a real honourable value contributor!

I have good reason for posting what I do but the like of you and your silly mates simply distort any intentions because of your own obvious bigotry!

That is your prerogative but your style of trying to overpower every thread with your cut and paste bully tactics to push your own agenda lacks class or interest!

I guess you are one of those people who simply have no other life - whatever smokes your tyres mate struggle on! - Me? - I don't really care too much!

[bogan]

Again - like I said - "nobody" - except mstriumph that is - I recognise her as a real honourable value contributor!

So, to the camps with the rest of us? :facepalm:

Anyway, what are you whinging about, it is done and dusted; you had your moment on enlightenment don't give up on it now!


Yes - I am racist and I am bigoted

[mashman]

Sorry, I see my intellect has intimidated you into a mindless rage. I'll leave you to it.

In which case, perhaps you should be the change: https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xla1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/12079184_10153760868279276_7764134411814377892_n.j pg?oh=06b89bfd9da181028420a4dfc327aad8&oe=56897CFA&__gda__=1452191119_a1603da1a86ff3502232c4c6b3d7c18 8

[husaberg]

Again - like I said - "nobody" - except mstriumph that is - I recognise her as a real honourable value contributor!

I have good reason for posting what I do but the like of you and your silly mates simply distort any intentions because of your own obvious bigotry!

That is your prerogative but your style of trying to overpower every thread with your cut and paste bully tactics to push your own agenda lacks class or interest!

I guess you are one of those people who simply have no other life - whatever smokes your tyres mate struggle on! - Me? - I don't really care too much!

So you seriously think that you twits going on, (in practically every post practically every day), about a Jewish conspiracy running and destroying the world, that is co-incidentally the exact same twaddle that the Nazis peddled makes you someone valid.
Bully tactics that's pretty rich considering you are the one attempting to persecute minorities.
Maybe you should complain to the race relations commission by sure to include your own posts and see what they say about your free speech rights
https://www.hrc.co.nz/about/commissioners-and-senior-leadership/dame-susan-devoy/
Maybe you axholel katman and yokel would feel more at home at these sites below with other likeminded individuals
http://www.kkkknights.com/
http://www.aryan-nation.org/
https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t241338/

[Ocean1]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xla1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/12079184_10153760868279276_7764134411814377892_n.j pg?oh=06b89bfd9da181028420a4dfc327aad8&oe=56897CFA&__gda__=1452191119_a1603da1a86ff3502232c4c6b3d7c18 8

Free movement eh?

If your usual bowel movement is typical I'll pass.

[Katman]

So you seriously think that you twits going all in practically every post practically every day about a Jewish conspiracy running and destroying the world that is the exact same twaddle that the Nazis peddled makes you someone valid.


Is English your second language?

[husaberg]

Is English your second language?
Is conspiracy theory your only religion?
jest tylko koło szarpanie swoich boju

je bent een racist onverdraaglijke

vous avez sous nominale intellence et un biggot

du er en racistisk selvretfærdig

Sie sind ein dummer bigot

sei un biggot stupido

あなたは馬鹿です

אתה אידיוט

[Brian d marge]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/14/5ff3bd5e570760676f3972a449cfbf74.jpg

あなたは馬鹿です

אתה אידיוט

Fixed it for ya

Sent from my SC-01G using Tapatalk

[mashman]

Free movement eh?

If your usual bowel movement is typical I'll pass.

Yes.

And yet you'll never find out for yourself? bwaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ... aaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. You really are a fuckin idiot aintcha :wari: thanks for that, whoooo.

[oldrider]

So you seriously think that you twits going on, (in practically every post practically every day), about a Jewish conspiracy running and destroying the world, that is co-incidentally the exact same twaddle that the Nazis peddled makes you someone valid.
Bully tactics that's pretty rich considering you are the one attempting to persecute minorities.
Maybe you should complain to the race relations commission by sure to include your own posts and see what they say about your free speech rights
https://www.hrc.co.nz/about/commissioners-and-senior-leadership/dame-susan-devoy/
Maybe you axholel katman and yokel would feel more at home at these sites below with other likeminded individuals
http://www.kkkknights.com/
http://www.aryan-nation.org/
https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t241338/

"Kids" say the darnedest things! - Grow up FFS! :sleep:

[husaberg]

"Kids" say the darnedest things! - Grow up FFS! :sleep:

Grow up surely you mean grow senile like yourself forever angry at the world endlessly searching for someone to blame.
Its going to be interesting to see how long it takes for you to be backing to posting the same bigoted Nazi propaganda again:psst:

[mashman]

Grow up surely you mean grow senile like yourself forever angry at the world endlessly searching for someone to blame.
Its going to be interesting to see how long it takes for you to be backing to posting the same bigoted Nazi propaganda again:psst:

http://www.sportsessionplanner.com/uploads/images/session_transitions/145800.jpg

[oldrider]

Grow up surely you mean grow senile like yourself forever angry at the world endlessly searching for someone to blame.
Its going to be interesting to see how long it takes for you to be backing to posting the same bigoted Nazi propaganda again:psst:

Nursery rhyme time: Sticks and stones make break my bones your names will never hurt me! :lol:

You have absolutely no idea who or what I am or what I stand for or believe.

You try to negatively brand people as bigots because you think they do not agree with your own thinking.

Bigot: a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race! - You are simply another bigot!

[bogan]

In which case, perhaps you should be the change:

I am, be fucked if I'm going to waste my time being your change; you got no right to impose your will on me.

[husaberg]

Nursery rhyme time: Sticks and stones make break my bones your names will never hurt me! :lol:

You have absolutely no idea who or what I am or what I stand for or believe.

You try to negatively brand people as bigots because you think they do not agree with your own thinking.

Bigot: a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race! - You are simply another bigot!

Full Definition of BIGOT. : a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.

Its a brand you Katman and Axhole and Yokel all seem to wear with pride.

You are branded a bigot and a racist by many people on this site included yourself.

[mashman]

I am, be fucked if I'm going to waste my time being your change; you got no right to impose your will on me.

bwaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa... my change? Think we dodged a bullet there.

[bogan]

Full Definition of BIGOT. : a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.

Its a brand you Katman and Axhole and Yokel all seem to wear with pride.

You are branded a bigot and a racist by many people on this site included yourself.

To be fair, if you consider bigotry to be a way of life, then those who shun that are technically bigots too :scratch:

Perhaps the first part of that says more than the second though :laugh:

[husaberg]

To be fair, if you consider bigotry to be a way of life, then those who shun that are technically bigots too :scratch:

Perhaps the first part of that says more than the second though :laugh:

Maybe they should all get some tattoos or develop a hairstyle or uniform that enables others to identify there beliefs maybe even some sort of salute so they don't have to repeatedly post the same shit.
http://media.giphy.com/media/smkW9AqRzMJQA/giphy.gif

[mashman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esLnq1bySOg

[mashman]

Taxpayers' Union rubbishes Universal Basic Income idea (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/78316664/taxpayers-union-rubbishes-universal-basic-income-idea)

[Ocean1]

Taxpayers' Union rubbishes Universal Basic Income idea (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/78316664/taxpayers-union-rubbishes-universal-basic-income-idea)

They've obviously sussed where all that free money is going to come from.

[mashman]

They've obviously sussed where all that free money is going to come from.

I know... exactly the same place as it's been coming from all along.

[oldrider]

I know... exactly the same place as it's been coming from all along.

Bet they won't be cutting the middle man out though - just playing the same old compounding game until it can't sustain it's self any more!

Like the first Labour party Social Security Scheme - eventually crushed by it's own accumulated debt!

[mashman]

Bet they won't be cutting the middle man out though - just playing the same old compounding game until it can't sustain it's self any more!

Like the first Labour party Social Security Scheme - eventually crushed by it's own accumulated debt!

Meh... it'll take the form of whatever we're told it'll take the form of innit. Likely something along the lines of, "because everyone gets it and it isn't backed by anything other than our need to buy what we need to live, it will be money that can be printed free of debt.".

[bogan]

Meh... it'll take the form of whatever we're told it'll take the form of innit. Likely something along the lines of, "because everyone gets it and it isn't backed by anything other than our need to buy what we need to live, it will be money that can be printed free of debt.".

Printing money is, quite literally, the creation of debt.

[husaberg]

Meh... it'll take the form of whatever we're told it'll take the form of innit. Likely something along the lines of, "because everyone gets it and it isn't backed by anything other than our need to buy what we need to live, it will be money that can be printed free of debt.".


Printing money is, quite literally, the creation of debt.

They could use all the income tax money that beneficiaries pay:corn:

[mashman]

Printing money is, quite literally, the creation of debt.

Only if you expect it to be paid back.

[bogan]

Only if you expect it to be paid back.

So debt isn't debt if you decide not to pay it back; I'm sure plebs everywhere will be thrilled at such profound heraldry...

[Woodman]

How much does it cost now to administer the dole etc? There would be a huge saving in admin staff alone if everyone just got it dished out regardless.

[mashman]

So debt isn't debt if you decide not to pay it back; I'm sure plebs everywhere will be thrilled at such profound heraldry...

Is that as far as you got? Dunno why I'm surprised.

[mashman]

How much does it cost now to administer the dole etc? There would be a huge saving in admin staff alone if everyone just got it dished out regardless.

Here's one for ya. Create it using NZ Coin. A digital coin. Pay UBI using said coin. Allow said coin to only be used to buy certain goods, like electricity, food stuffs etc... Destroy said coin once it has been used to avoid the need for interest or inflation. Leave the dole to run as it currently does and change not a thing. Better working than a part of a system that they used to administrate, shirley? :D

[bogan]

How much does it cost now to administer the dole etc? There would be a huge saving in admin staff alone if everyone just got it dished out regardless.

It's probably more categorised as helping people get the fuck to work... Hard to put that down as a cost I reckon.


Is that as far as you got? Dunno why I'm surprised.

Been right round and back to there. Printing of money becomes redundant if you don't have to pay it back you see; ergo, if money is printed...

[mashman]

Been right round and back to there. Printing of money becomes redundant if you don't have to pay it back you see; ergo, if money is printed...

Then I suggest that you missed at least 1 turning along the way that wouldn't have taken you back to go. Somewhat ironically, it's nothing more than money performing the function for which you keep saying it is supposed to function. But yeah, I agree, money does become technically redundant.

[bogan]

money does become technically redundant.

So how's that polling :laugh:

General election next year, best start ramping up that campaign thingo if you want to get on the ballot this year :killingme

[mashman]

So how's that polling :laugh:

General election next year, best start ramping up that campaign thingo if you want to get on the ballot this year :killingme

Fantastically well thanks :D

Campaign? Ha.

[bogan]

Fantastically well thanks :D

Campaign? Ha.

Citation needed...

[mashman]

Citation needed...

I said so.

[bogan]

I said so.

Yeh, I've noticed you say a lot of things with no bearing to or on reality. Guess you wish to be left to your self delusions again :wavey:

[mashman]

Yeh, I've noticed you say a lot of things with no bearing to or on reality. Guess you wish to be left to your self delusions again :wavey:

Left? Hell no. I'm sharing. Most I speak with seem to wanna share too. YNWA :headbang:

[Akzle]

Printing money is, quite literally, the creation of debt.

somebody better tell ocean and TDL...

not like i've been saying it for fucken years or anything

[Ocean1]

How much does it cost now to administer the dole etc? There would be a huge saving in admin staff alone if everyone just got it dished out regardless.

Aye. Works out to threepence ha'penny a month each.

If you want more money what's wrong with earning it? Seriously?

[Ocean1]

somebody better tell ocean and TDL...

not like i've been saying it for fucken years or anything

You're right. This here dollar note does indeed represent debt. The RBNZ owes me one dollar.

And then some...

[Brian d marge]

Printing money is, quite literally, the creation of debt.
It is if you use the Babylonian system


sent for a divine source

[Edbear]

Aye. Works out to threepence ha'penny a month each.

If you want more money what's wrong with earning it? Seriously?

Earning money..? You mean, like working for it!? :shit:

[Brian d marge]

Earning money..? You mean, like working for it!? :shit:
Yes ... Get this you trade your time and skill .. And some fella gives u money
Then the nice man in the inland revenue ..not overseas revenue ..but from the people trapped inland .. He takes a chunk. Cos u used stuff that he paid for
Then he takes back the money he gave u to get said skill.,.

And if you all of the above really well and all of the time

The fella next door reckons you could rise to the top of your fellow peers and drive a flash car and all that

I don't know why ya just don't borrow the money from the central bank at 0 % ..sorry. 2.5% interest.

Then go and have a punt on the gee gees ..
Seems a much easier way

Imagine if shergar came up trumps

sent for a divine source

[mashman]

Earning money..? You mean, like working for it!? :shit:

So archaic.

[Edbear]

So archaic.

Hmmm...So am I....;)

[mashman]

Hmmm...So am I....;)

Given the number of years you've relied on the system being the way it is, it's hardly unsurprising :shifty:

[Edbear]

Given the number of years you've relied on the system being the way it is, it's hardly unsurprising :shifty:

I don't rely on the system, I rely on knowledge and applied knowledge to make the decisions I need to certainly I seriously consider those who are qualified to advise and so far, despite facing death 5 times I have survived and continue to survive. Long may it continue.

This system is not for too much longer and I look forward to the new one coming.

[mashman]

I don't rely on the system, I rely on knowledge and applied knowledge to make the decisions I need to certainly I seriously consider those who are qualified to advise and so far, despite facing death 5 times I have survived and continue to survive. Long may it continue.

This system is not for too much longer and I look forward to the new one coming.

Everyone relies on the system... unless you require absolutely nothing from society, not even customers. Yup, keep well that man.

Me too. You going to vote for it?

[Edbear]

Everyone relies on the system... unless you require absolutely nothing from society, not even customers. Yup, keep well that man.

Me too. You going to vote for it?

Already voted.

[mashman]

Magician's Veil Hides Life Truths (http://www.wanttoknow.info/g/magicians-veil-hides-life-truths)

Gonna need some form of economy to allow human beings to interact in such a way. There's a Resource Based Economy conference in Christchurch on 14th May. Why not eh?

[mashman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3meq7br1rE

[Ocean1]

Magician's Veil Hides Life Truths (http://www.wanttoknow.info/g/magicians-veil-hides-life-truths)

Gonna need some form of economy to allow human beings to interact in such a way. There's a Resource Based Economy conference in Christchurch on 14th May. Why not eh?

"About the author

Sigmund Fraud is a survivor of modern psychiatry"

:laugh:

"Note: The above is a version of the original article edited significantly for clarity and impact."

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Brian d marge]

I don't rely on the system, I rely on knowledge and applied knowledge to make the decisions I need to certainly I seriously consider those who are qualified to advise and so far, despite facing death 5 times I have survived and continue to survive. Long may it continue.

This system is not for too much longer and I look forward to the new one coming.
Oh it's going to change alright and very soon me thinks
Unfortunately ..the cannon fodder will believe it's for a good cause
When actual fact ,the nut jobs who are pulling the strings want a big change and to get a big change , you need a big event
Look forward to a fascist totalitarian police state
And the more I dig into how it's done. The more see it in action everyday
The small glimmer of hope is that due to the Internet.. People are waking up....

Still all it will take is one Clinton in the Whitehouse and as soon as the paybacks start ...she's all on



sent for a divine source

[mashman]

"About the author

Sigmund Fraud is a survivor of modern psychiatry"

:laugh:

"Note: The above is a version of the original article edited significantly for clarity and impact."

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

:killingme... https://i.imgur.com/tyTc1Nl.jpg

[Ocean1]

Well yeah. What, with not being insane an' all.

[Brian d marge]

Well yeah. What, with not bein sane an' all.

Sorry couldn't help but fix that for you



sent for a divine source

[mashman]

Well yeah. What, with not being insane an' all.

Einstein, quite convincingly, states otherwise.

[Ocean1]

Einstein, quite convincingly, states otherwise.

What are you blathering on about now?

Y'know, if you don't have a rational rebuttal you can just shut the fuck up.

It's an option I think you should consider, 'cause your usual assemblage of random shit when challenged just removes all doubt that you've got fuck all worthwhile to say in the first place.

[Akzle]

What are you blathering on about now?

Y'know, if you don't have a rational rebuttal you can just shut the fuck up.

It's an option I think you should consider, 'cause your usual assemblage of random shit when challenged just removes all doubt that you've got fuck all worthwhile to say in the first place.

What are you blathering on about now?

Y'know, if you don't have a rational rebuttal you can just shut the fuck up.

It's an option I think you should consider, 'cause your usual assemblage of random shit when challenged just removes all doubt that you've got fuck all worthwhile to say in the first place.

[mashman]

What are you blathering on about now?

Y'know, if you don't have a rational rebuttal you can just shut the fuck up.

It's an option I think you should consider, 'cause your usual assemblage of random shit when challenged just removes all doubt that you've got fuck all worthwhile to say in the first place.

Did you read the article?

[Ocean1]

Did you read the article?

You obviously didn't, if you'd read it you'd recognise the quotes I posted.

[mashman]

You obviously didn't, if you'd read it you'd recognise the quotes I posted.

And the best you had was to laugh at some funnies that I'm pretty sure you didn't understand?



Y'know, if you don't have a rational rebuttal you can just shut the fuck up.

It's an option I think you should consider, 'cause your usual assemblage of random shit when challenged just removes all doubt that you've got fuck all worthwhile to say in the first place.

[Ocean1]

And the best you had was to laugh at some funnies that I'm pretty sure you didn't understand?

You really are clueless, aren't you. If you'd read your own reference you'd recognise that what I posted was the article's footnote, attributing the article to a mentally unwell person, (using a Psych-related nom de plume) and admitting that even that had been significantly edited for "clarity" and "impact".

In other words, click-bait for consipracy fuckwits.

Now go away and try to do something actually constructive.

[mashman]

You really are clueless, aren't you. If you'd read your own reference you'd recognise that what I posted was the article's footnote, attributing the article to a mentally unwell person, (using a Psych-related nom de plume) and admitting that even that had been significantly edited for "clarity" and "impact".

In other words, click-bait for consipracy fuckwits.

Now go away and try to do something actually constructive.

You didn't read it then. Who says satire is a dead art.

[Ocean1]

You didn't read it then. Who says satire is a dead art.

Dude, there's absolutely no difference between satirical humour and the drivel you typically post as serious reference.

None.

[mashman]

Dude, there's absolutely no difference between satirical humour and the drivel you typically post as serious reference.

None.

Bold statement given that you've demonstrably shown that you don't have a clue why the link was posted in the first place, dude. Tis absolutely hilarious that you use the source to classify the context of the content. Your ignorance may well know know bounds.

[Ocean1]

Bold statement given that you've demonstrably shown that you don't have a clue why the link was posted in the first place, dude. Tis absolutely hilarious that you use the source to classify the context of the content. Your ignorance may well know know bounds.

Given that the source was the only content of your post it's difficult to see how you can claim there was any supposed alternative "context".

Yet again: you posting pretend drivel and you posting actual drivel = same. Indistinguishable.

[Brian d marge]

Bold statement given that you've demonstrably shown that you don't have a clue why the link was posted in the first place, dude. Tis absolutely hilarious that you use the source to classify the context of the content. Your ignorance may well know know bounds.

oh it knows boundries alright , not as constricted as the sesame street character though.......

[mashman]

Given that the source was the only content of your post it's difficult to see how you can claim there was any supposed alternative "context".

Yet again: you posting pretend drivel and you posting actual drivel = same. Indistinguishable.

That's not surprising to hear.

[mashman]

oh it knows boundries alright , not as constricted as the sesame street character though.......

So long as they leave feeling better eh ;).

[mashman]

"We don't need bosses. We can run this by ourselves."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwHnQWXiS9M

[mashman]

There's gonna be some Resource Based Economy fullas at the Wellington City Library 18th June 11am -... all ready to answer any questions anyone might have.

[Akzle]

There's gonna be some Resource Based Economy fullas at the Wellington City Library 18th June 11am -... all ready to answer any questions anyone might have.

dont those feckless khunts have jobs to go to or something? :bleh:

[Brian d marge]

There's gonna be some Resource Based Economy fullas at the Wellington City Library 18th June 11am -... all ready to answer any questions anyone might have.
Who owns the resource?


sent for a divine source

[mashman]

dont those feckless khunts have jobs to go to or something? :bleh:

You are our job. Remember to vote :laugh: I think i'm the only one that doesn't oddly enough.


Who owns the resource?


sent for a divine source

When? 5 years down the track? 10? 20? Mebees 30 or 50 or 100.

[TheDemonLord]

There's gonna be some Resource Based Economy fullas at the Wellington City Library 18th June 11am -... all ready to answer any questions anyone might have.

Serious questions:

In the absence of any metric (such as money) to measure the value of different resources and therefore provide a means to balance supply and demand, how does an RBE intend to deal with the inherent problem of Scarcity (in this case, Scarcity is defined as humans wanting more than they need for base survival).

An example being that for each Cow killed, there is a limited number of Steaks that can be cut from the carcass - currently the price is higher for the more desirable cuts, How does an RBE address this problem (without limiting consumer choice) and without unnecessarily killing more cows?

How does an RBE deal with people who consume resources, but contribute nothing. And its corollary How does it incentivize the people who do contribute (ie through work) to continue to do so?

Final question - if the country moved to an RBE, and there was some form of centralized bank that manages the Balance of Payments for the country - how do they intend to do the following:

1: Safeguard against corruption, without a convenient metric to check if it is going on (ie - follow the money)
2: Allow the average NZer the freedom of choice over goods and services that is currently provided by Money.

Bonus snarky question (which I don't think you'd ask):

How is this not Communism Mk2.0 and doomed to abject failure?

[Brian d marge]

I was going to reply with a glib reply but I won't because it's actually a good question
In that 99.99 percent will not under the answer
Scarcity causes corruption. And is used to frighten everyone into not doing the third part which is sharing .....which when things are abundant..... which they are ...there is no scarcity
If you want to control a group introducing a scarce commodity is a great way to do it .... gold ..currency ....caviar ...
One of the best control systems ever invented .... scarcity
If you imagine that it is I n short supply... ...you might have to revisit your belief system

Local diversified systems often lack scarcity.......due to their diversity and pressures on said system

Imho

sent for a divine source

[Jin]

All resources are scarce. And that had nothing to do with corruption.

What is your definition of corruption?

[Akzle]

All resources are scarce.

incorrect .

[Jin]

incorrect .
Such as what?

This whole idea of a RBE is dumb. It assumes that resources/wealth can be effectively distributed. The only way you can effectively redistribute wealth / resources is by destroying the incentive to have wealth / resources.

And they get so caught up with the issue of money which is a red herring. Money is simply a claim on resources.

[mashman]

Serious questions:

In the absence of any metric (such as money) to measure the value of different resources and therefore provide a means to balance supply and demand, how does an RBE intend to deal with the inherent problem of Scarcity (in this case, Scarcity is defined as humans wanting more than they need for base survival).

An example being that for each Cow killed, there is a limited number of Steaks that can be cut from the carcass - currently the price is higher for the more desirable cuts, How does an RBE address this problem (without limiting consumer choice) and without unnecessarily killing more cows?

How does an RBE deal with people who consume resources, but contribute nothing. And its corollary How does it incentivize the people who do contribute (ie through work) to continue to do so?

Final question - if the country moved to an RBE, and there was some form of centralized bank that manages the Balance of Payments for the country - how do they intend to do the following:

1: Safeguard against corruption, without a convenient metric to check if it is going on (ie - follow the money)
2: Allow the average NZer the freedom of choice over goods and services that is currently provided by Money.

Bonus snarky question (which I don't think you'd ask):

How is this not Communism Mk2.0 and doomed to abject failure?

Serious? Ok.

The metric isn't an issue, because counting exists. 1lb, 1kg, 1 diamond, 1 loaf, 1 car, 2lb, 2kg, 2 diamonds etc...

Your example of steak shows just how ill equipped you are to digest what's being proposed. http://kiwiharvest.org.nz/news/ 1 example... singular. That there are more shoots your scarcity argument in the bollocks. Scarcity is created by the inability to get a resource to a place. That's a money problem as it is logistiaclly possible to get virtually any resource anywhere in the world given enough of a need... because at that point in time, the financial cost is ignored. However where the financial cost is incurred, budget constraint becomes an issue when trying to keep a healthy bottom line. So to be clear. We can get any resource we want anywhere we want it, so long as there is enough money avilable to do it. That proves that the resources not only exist, but that it is logistically possible to get that resource to where it is needed. Therefore the only thing that actually creates scarcity is money. But by all means, carry on ignoring logic, reason and common sense in regards to what scarcity is in this day and age. It's budget constraint... and that's alllllll money baby.

Why do you care if someone is working or not so long as you are getting access to what you are currently getting access to? That's a serious question. Money going to the "unemployed" (inc pensioners, disabled etc...) removes money from other areas of the economy. Removing money entirely means that the "unemployed" will still get exactly what they need to live the day to day life they were going to live anyway, except it doesn't create budget constraint in areas that otherwise wouldn't get the resource they require because of the scarcity introduced by money. Logic, reason and common sense, again.

Incentive is easy. People will have voted for an RBE when an RBE govt takes power. That means they're prepared to do what it takes to have all of the benefits of RBE. That may well be losing something that they hold dear... but by the time they're ready to vote for RBE, they'll realise that they won't actually be losing anything. It's called being a grown up and having accountability for ones footprint in regards to how it affects others. Growing up may happen to you one day, but I do have my doubts.

1. You can't guarantee against corruption 100% because as you mentioned earlier, there are other methods of corrupting people outwith money. It just so happens that in this day and age, money is by far the most potent corrupting influence that mankind has ever seen. You'd have to be bat shit crazy to deny it. The simplest experiments work the best. I offer to punch people in the arm and they tell me to fuck off. I offer them $1 million to punch them in the arm 10 times and they start rolling their sleeves up. ISIS fight, because they're being paid money to do so. As soon as the money dries up, so do the bodies wanting to fight. Again, logic, reason and common sense proving that without money, it'll be almost impossible to peacefully corrupt anyone.

2. RBE is all about freedom. Consider that every single person in the country will be a volunteer. Now consider that in the context of the employer - employee relationship. Should anyone decide, under RBE, to stop producing, well, that's entirely up to them innit. As such, NZers will have access to all that is available.

When was Communism Mk 1.0? It never happened. I know, I've looked. There was always money involved. Communism was defined as having no money and controlled at gunpoint. Ironically enough that's exactly where we're headed. Bonus irony is that those who scream the loudest against Communism, are actually the ones who are driving us towards it... the gunpoint version that is. There's a couple of logical reasons why it isn't communism Mk 2.0.

As for abject failure. Apart from saying that the faint heart never fucked a pig... that people will have voted for RBE in enough numbers for an RBE govt to implement RBE, anyone going against that would realise that they'd be cutting their nose off to spite their face by allowing it to fail.

[mashman]

I was going to reply with a glib reply but I won't because it's actually a good question
In that 99.99 percent will not under the answer
Scarcity causes corruption. And is used to frighten everyone into not doing the third part which is sharing .....which when things are abundant..... which they are ...there is no scarcity
If you want to control a group introducing a scarce commodity is a great way to do it .... gold ..currency ....caviar ...
One of the best control systems ever invented .... scarcity
If you imagine that it is I n short supply... ...you might have to revisit your belief system

Local diversified systems often lack scarcity.......due to their diversity and pressures on said system

Imho

sent for a divine source

I considered it similar after having the post ready to go last night, I thought fuck him... but then I was at a mates place this morning and he mentioned that him and his missus had watched one of the Zeitgeist movies a couple of nights ago and that, despite me having talked to him about RBE over the last few years and him not really seeing the benefits of it, the movie opened his eyes and everything that I had said to him over those years finally sank in.

The Parable of The Pub. Lightning strikes when lightning strikes.

Onwards and upwards :wari:

[mashman]

Such as what?

This whole idea of a RBE is dumb. It assumes that resources/wealth can be effectively distributed. The only way you can effectively redistribute wealth / resources is by destroying the incentive to have wealth / resources.

And they get so caught up with the issue of money which is a red herring. Money is simply a claim on resources.

Everything. 7 billion people are testimony to that fact. Scarcity is budget related, not resource related.

As for the highlighted... you can take yer ECP and shove it where the sun don't shine. Sure, once upon a time, with the modes of communication that where available and scarcity actually being resource scarcity the ECP was a "valid" argument against RBE. Now it's just embarrassing when I see people use it. ECP is an argument that's 100 years out of date. There is no wealth redistribution under RBE.

And you're a fuckin idiot.

[Akzle]

Such as what?


such as: shit's not scarce

[Brian d marge]

Such as what?

This whole idea of a RBE is dumb. It assumes that resources/wealth can be effectively distributed. The only way you can effectively redistribute wealth / resources is by destroying the incentive to have wealth / resources.

And they get so caught up with the issue of money which is a red herring. Money is simply a claim on resources.
Ummmmm

No

Money, is a perceived unit of measure of energy

Incentive is related to a post above talking about collectivism....but I'll stop there and see if anyone can join the dots .....

sent for a divine source

[Akzle]

or:

Everything. 7 billion people are testimony to that fact. Scarcity is budget related, not resource related.

As for the highlighted... you can take yer ECP and shove it where the sun don't shine. Sure, once upon a time, with the modes of communication that where available and scarcity actually being resource scarcity the ECP was a "valid" argument against RBE. Now it's just embarrassing when I see people use it. ECP is an argument that's 100 years out of date. There is no wealth redistribution under RBE.

And you're a fuckin idiot.

must spread...

[Jin]

You guys are fucken retarded. Scarcity is a made up thing? Just need more money? Holy shit. So under a RBE we would all live in nice mansions, all the food we want, we would all have top class euro bikes and a rolls in the garage. Becauses resources are infinite.

In case you fucktards didnt notice most money isnt made from resources its from producing high end products. Resources are just the input.

Everything is finite and scarce. Except your idiocy. Why dont you piss off to venezuala, cuba or north korea to live out your utopian communist fantasy.

[mashman]

You guys are fucken retarded. Scarcity is a made up thing? Just need more money? Holy shit. So under a RBE we would all live in nice mansions, all the food we want, we would all have top class euro bikes and a rolls in the garage. Becauses resources are infinite.

In case you fucktards didnt notice most money isnt made from resources its from producing high end products. Resources are just the input.

Everything is finite and scarce. Except your idiocy. Why dont you piss off to venezuala, cuba or north korea to live out your utopian communist fantasy.

WTF are you talking about?

:killingme... seriously, wtf are you on about?

bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Anyone have any bridges to sell?

[Jin]

WTF are you talking about?

:killingme... seriously, wtf are you on about?

bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Anyone have any bridges to sell?
Pretty sure you dont understand because your faith based literature doesnt give any basis for claiming resources are not scarce.

Do you have any other bullshit opinions youd like to share?

[mashman]

Pretty sure you dont understand because your faith based literature doesnt give any basis for claiming resources are not scarce.

Do you have any other bullshit opinions youd like to share?

Faith base literature :killingme... what literature? As I've provided logical, reasonable and common sense arguments for scarcity being budget constraint, your claim that I don't understand is somewhat ironic. Or you're simply just another dumb fuck that has learned by rote without actually applying any form of critical thinking as to what they've learned. I reckon you fall in the latter, because you haven't put up any argument supporting scarcity of resource. Just propaganda spewed from the capitalist handbook of entitlement that bares virtually zero resemblance to how the world works post-70. Fuckin moron.

[Brian d marge]

WTF are you talking about?

:killingme... seriously, wtf are you on about?

bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Anyone have any bridges to sell?
Hahaaa + 1

Not a friggen clue

sent for a divine source

[Jin]

Sorry but you are the dumb fuck not me. Anyone who can grasp the concept of a supply and demand graph and understand the basis of the price system would not make a retarded claim that resources are not scarce and that is just a budget constraint.

The other issue with your fantasy is that if you remove money from the equation then as you say resources can be delivered anywhere. The problem is that of you remove money then someone has to decide where resources are allocated. Who does that? You walk right into a politburo and central planning elites and a communist nightmare. That is real corruption. At least with money resources are allocated according to what people want. Each dollar is a vote people can decide what they want and how badly they need / want it.

Remove that ability to vote and the common man becomes a beggar to the elites at the top who decide who gets what.

Grow up please. This kind of rbe idiocy is communism in disguise and for idolistic children who don't know any better.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm not sure that you have the objectivity to adequately ask the questions on my behalf - It's like an Atheist asking a Devout Christian to ask another Devout Christian on proof if God Exists and then expecting something other than the 2 Christians to go in unison 'But of COURSE he exists, Bwaaaahahahaha'....


Serious? Ok.

The metric isn't an issue, because counting exists. 1lb, 1kg, 1 diamond, 1 loaf, 1 car, 2lb, 2kg, 2 diamonds etc...

Your example of steak shows just how ill equipped you are to digest what's being proposed. http://kiwiharvest.org.nz/news/ 1 example... singular. That there are more shoots your scarcity argument in the bollocks. Scarcity is created by the inability to get a resource to a place. That's a money problem as it is logistiaclly possible to get virtually any resource anywhere in the world given enough of a need... because at that point in time, the financial cost is ignored. However where the financial cost is incurred, budget constraint becomes an issue when trying to keep a healthy bottom line. So to be clear. We can get any resource we want anywhere we want it, so long as there is enough money avilable to do it. That proves that the resources not only exist, but that it is logistically possible to get that resource to where it is needed. Therefore the only thing that actually creates scarcity is money. But by all means, carry on ignoring logic, reason and common sense in regards to what scarcity is in this day and age. It's budget constraint... and that's alllllll money baby.

That is not an answer the question - I'll refine the example so you can properly ask it:

For a given cow - there are 100 Steaks cut from the Carcass, 50 Rump, 30 Sirloin and 20 Eye Fillet (yum). there are 120 people who want Steak. Of those 120, 40 want Eye Fillets. In the current system, the price would rise to a point where only 20 people could afford Eye Fillets (unfair, but effective) - How does an RBE deal with this issue without killing an additional Cow (this point is key)


Why do you care if someone is working or not so long as you are getting access to what you are currently getting access to? That's a serious question. Money going to the "unemployed" (inc pensioners, disabled etc...) removes money from other areas of the economy. Removing money entirely means that the "unemployed" will still get exactly what they need to live the day to day life they were going to live anyway, except it doesn't create budget constraint in areas that otherwise wouldn't get the resource they require because of the scarcity introduced by money. Logic, reason and common sense, again.

Simple - There are things that make my life easier (Power, Water, Internet, Waste Collection) that are done by other people, people who are currently compensated for their work by me. Now imagine if the entire Waste Management sector decided that they would rather spend their time with their family, instead of dealing with smelly crap - my quality of life goes down.


Incentive is easy. People will have voted for an RBE when an RBE govt takes power. That means they're prepared to do what it takes to have all of the benefits of RBE. That may well be losing something that they hold dear... but by the time they're ready to vote for RBE, they'll realise that they won't actually be losing anything. It's called being a grown up and having accountability for ones footprint in regards to how it affects others. Growing up may happen to you one day, but I do have my doubts.

So, the people that currently are able to afford Ferraris - will still be able to have Ferraris?


1. You can't guarantee against corruption 100% because as you mentioned earlier, there are other methods of corrupting people outwith money. It just so happens that in this day and age, money is by far the most potent corrupting influence that mankind has ever seen. You'd have to be bat shit crazy to deny it. The simplest experiments work the best. I offer to punch people in the arm and they tell me to fuck off. I offer them $1 million to punch them in the arm 10 times and they start rolling their sleeves up. ISIS fight, because they're being paid money to do so. As soon as the money dries up, so do the bodies wanting to fight. Again, logic, reason and common sense proving that without money, it'll be almost impossible to peacefully corrupt anyone.

I disagree, Money is a Symptom, Humans are the problem. Money does however make it easier to track corruption.


2. RBE is all about freedom. Consider that every single person in the country will be a volunteer. Now consider that in the context of the employer - employee relationship. Should anyone decide, under RBE, to stop producing, well, that's entirely up to them innit. As such, NZers will have access to all that is available.

And what happens when there are more people consuming and not enough people producing?



When was Communism Mk 1.0? It never happened. I know, I've looked. There was always money involved. Communism was defined as having no money and controlled at gunpoint. Ironically enough that's exactly where we're headed. Bonus irony is that those who scream the loudest against Communism, are actually the ones who are driving us towards it... the gunpoint version that is. There's a couple of logical reasons why it isn't communism Mk 2.0.

As for abject failure. Apart from saying that the faint heart never fucked a pig... that people will have voted for RBE in enough numbers for an RBE govt to implement RBE, anyone going against that would realise that they'd be cutting their nose off to spite their face by allowing it to fail.

That should be a hint - they all failed before they could even get to the Communist Utopia, even with the threat of Violence to keep the unbelievers in line...

[willytheekid]

...Im just secretly hoping this thread breaks out into a full on knife fight!! :yes:

http://i.imgur.com/FLy8ZTJ.gif

...Fight!, fight!, fight!! :laugh:

[husaberg]

http://image.blingee.com/images16/content/output/000/000/000/526/410988489_1767405.gif

[Jin]

stuff
In other words a system that relies on volunteerism is fantasy. People wont even pay their taxes voluntarily. Communism is essentially organised around the threat of force because ultimately the elites running things have to order people what to do. Problem with RBE is not many will volunteer to clean the toilets. So to get to the so called utopia of communism in the interim they order people around. Thats the corruption and use of force by the state against individuals. And why communism and RBE is not compatible with individual freedom.

Even our current system is based on the threat of force. Welfare system of redistribution is force because i have no say in what i choose to share. Its taken from me. Taxes, roads etc.

If these RBE guys really cared about freedom then they should forget about the allocation and distribution of wealth/resources and aim for the abolition of all types of force similar to anarcho libertarian philisophy. Remove the state and all threats and use of force and let people do what they want to the extent it doesnt impinge on other peoples freedom. If want to use money let them. If they want to barter let them. Everyone decides for themselves what they want to do.

I identify with minarchist because you do need a state for certain things like a police force to protect my freedom from others. Even Mises the godfather of austrian economics said govt was the best system of all.

[Brian d marge]

Sorry but you are the dumb fuck not me. Anyone who can grasp the concept of a supply and demand graph and understand the basis of the price system would not make a retarded claim that resources are not scarce and that is just a budget constraint.

The other issue with your fantasy is that if you remove money from the equation then as you say resources can be delivered anywhere. The problem is that of you remove money then someone has to decide where resources are allocated. Who does that? You walk right into a politburo and central planning elites and a communist nightmare. That is real corruption. At least with money resources are allocated according to what people want. Each dollar is a vote people can decide what they want and how badly they need / want it.

Remove that ability to vote and the common man becomes a beggar to the elites at the top who decide who gets what.

Grow up please. This kind of rbe idiocy is communism in disguise and for idolistic children who don't know any better.

I know what a supply demand graph is and the difference between money and currency , AND where it all came from ....

understand that.... MONEY is a perceived measure of energy. Stored or otherwise.

Percieved

So to use the later one cow argument, ASSUMES , A, there is only one cow and that B, everyone will want and get a steak is erroneous .... As quite simply , I can see there isn't enough to go around , so I either give you my steak or we decide to grow another cow ...

No money changing hands there ... , but IF you use money and place a scarcity on that steak , then the unit of perceived energy increases relative to perceived scarcity ...and the one with the most gets the steak .....( welcome to the venetian aka Babylonian banking fraud.......even Tiberius realized that ! ) ,

in either system Someone ain't eating a steak .........


and we haven't even touched on adding interest on money ......now add this to your fraud and the fraud goes stratospheric !


Stephen

[TheDemonLord]

So to use the later one cow argument, ASSUMES , A, there is only one cow and that B, everyone will want and get a steak is erroneous .... As quite simply , I can see there isn't enough to go around , so I either give you my steak or we decide to grow another cow ...

I use a Cow because there is a moral component for killing another Cow without making full use of the first one. Which boils down to one of the problems I have read in the RBE literature provided by Mashman et al - it assumes that one can always get more of a resource and that there is no loss of opportunity - And I'm interested in what these RBE experts will say in response to these questions.


No money changing hands there ... , but IF you use money and place a scarcity on that steak , then the unit of perceived energy increases relative to perceived scarcity ...and the one with the most gets the steak .....( welcome to the venetian aka Babylonian banking fraud.......even Tiberius realized that ! ) ,

in either system Someone ain't eating a steak .........

Well, Money didn't generate the Scarcity of Steak, that's just it, Almost every resource is Finite in some manner and is therefore scarce BEFORE the introduction of Money (this is where my position of Money isn't the problem comes from).

As you say - either way someone misses out - In a Monetary system, everyone has agency to earn and then based on those earnings, acquire goods and services to their taste(s) and the value of said earnings. If you want something you can't afford, you have the agency to either educate or take risk to earn more to acquire said things. This happens constantly until some form of balance is acheived (even if said balance is unfair)

In an RBE, Neither Mashman or any of the reading material has ever answered this point - how are scarce resource is allocated in a way that is not arbitrary and does not impact on personal choice.


and we haven't even touched on adding interest on money ......now add this to your fraud and the fraud goes stratospheric !


Stephen

Well, Interest provides an incentive to lend money and an incentive to pay it back quickly, and a little bit of inflation does everyone good.

[Jin]

I know what a supply demand graph is and the difference between money and currency , AND where it all came from ....

understand that.... MONEY is a perceived measure of energy. Stored or otherwise.

Percieved

So to use the later one cow argument, ASSUMES , A, there is only one cow and that B, everyone will want and get a steak is erroneous .... As quite simply , I can see there isn't enough to go around , so I either give you my steak or we decide to grow another cow ...

No money changing hands there ... , but IF you use money and place a scarcity on that steak , then the unit of perceived energy increases relative to perceived scarcity ...and the one with the most gets the steak .....( welcome to the venetian aka Babylonian banking fraud.......even Tiberius realized that ! ) ,

in either system Someone ain't eating a steak .........


and we haven't even touched on adding interest on money ......now add this to your fraud and the fraud goes stratospheric !


Stephen
Money is a medium of exchange. Saying its energy doesnt make sense maybe its how you try to fool gullible people into thinking you know what you are talking about. Why do people grow forests? Because you seem to imply money reduces the incentive to produce and conserve resources which is stupid. It is the opposite. Is a bottle of milk perceived energy? Because I can swap money for milk. What about a whore? She takes money.

And more importantly in this wonderful utopian paradise of yours, who exactly is it that decides where and how resources are allocated?

[mashman]

I'm not sure that you have the objectivity to adequately ask the questions on my behalf - It's like an Atheist asking a Devout Christian to ask another Devout Christian on proof if God Exists and then expecting something other than the 2 Christians to go in unison 'But of COURSE he exists, Bwaaaahahahaha'....



That is not an answer the question - I'll refine the example so you can properly ask it:

For a given cow - there are 100 Steaks cut from the Carcass, 50 Rump, 30 Sirloin and 20 Eye Fillet (yum). there are 120 people who want Steak. Of those 120, 40 want Eye Fillets. In the current system, the price would rise to a point where only 20 people could afford Eye Fillets (unfair, but effective) - How does an RBE deal with this issue without killing an additional Cow (this point is key)



Simple - There are things that make my life easier (Power, Water, Internet, Waste Collection) that are done by other people, people who are currently compensated for their work by me. Now imagine if the entire Waste Management sector decided that they would rather spend their time with their family, instead of dealing with smelly crap - my quality of life goes down.



So, the people that currently are able to afford Ferraris - will still be able to have Ferraris?



I disagree, Money is a Symptom, Humans are the problem. Money does however make it easier to track corruption.



And what happens when there are more people consuming and not enough people producing?




That should be a hint - they all failed before they could even get to the Communist Utopia, even with the threat of Violence to keep the unbelievers in line...

I thought you'd be that useless... but hey.

[Akzle]

In other words a system that relies on volunteerism is fantasy. People wont even pay their taxes voluntarily. Communism is essentially organised around the threat of force because ultimately the elites running things have to order people what to do. Problem with RBE is not many will volunteer to clean the toilets. So to get to the so called utopia of communism in the interim they order people around. Thats the corruption and use of force by the state against individuals. And why communism and RBE is not compatible with individual freedom.

Even our current system is based on the threat of force. Welfare system of redistribution is force because i have no say in what i choose to share. Its taken from me. Taxes, roads etc.

If these RBE guys really cared about freedom then they should forget about the allocation and distribution of wealth/resources and aim for the abolition of all types of force similar to anarcho libertarian philisophy. Remove the state and all threats and use of force and let people do what they want to the extent it doesnt impinge on other peoples freedom. If want to use money let them. If they want to barter let them. Everyone decides for themselves what they want to do.

I identify with minarchist because you do need a state for certain things like a police force to protect my freedom from others. Even Mises the godfather of austrian economics said govt was the best system of all.

are you on crack?
srsly. you swing between almost making sense, and being reeeeally fucking retarded.

[Brian d marge]

I use a Cow because there is a moral component for killing another Cow without making full use of the first one. Which boils down to one of the problems I have read in the RBE literature provided by Mashman et al - it assumes that one can always get more of a resource and that there is no loss of opportunity - And I'm interested in what these RBE experts will say in response to these questions.



Well, Money didn't generate the Scarcity of Steak, that's just it, Almost every resource is Finite in some manner and is therefore scarce BEFORE the introduction of Money (this is where my position of Money isn't the problem comes from).

As you say - either way someone misses out - In a Monetary system, everyone has agency to earn and then based on those earnings, acquire goods and services to their taste(s) and the value of said earnings. If you want something you can't afford, you have the agency to either educate or take risk to earn more to acquire said things. This happens constantly until some form of balance is acheived (even if said balance is unfair)

In an RBE, Neither Mashman or any of the reading material has ever answered this point - how are scarce resource is allocated in a way that is not arbitrary and does not impact on personal choice.



Well, Interest provides an incentive to lend money and an incentive to pay it back quickly, and a little bit of inflation does everyone good.

Its only scarce , if a perceived value is placed upon it and how can a balance be unbalanced? ...quote ; (even if said balance is unfair)

Sea water is finite , but I'm unaware of any value....or scarcity..

As for interest , the greatest fraud upon mankind ..... I have 10 marbles , all the marbles on the planet ,,,,I lend them to you at 10% interest ..... you must give me 11 marbles back ....

WHERE did that 11th marble come from???? did you suddenly create something from nothing ???

Ok say I , You cannot find 1 marble ..then you owe me ! 1 marble of your energy , after all you agreed to the debt .....

So from now on , you will be always striving to pay back that 11th marble ....because there is only 10 original marbles ...

Now , I have an inflation rate of 1 marble , each of my previous 10 marble are now devalued by 1/10 , i.e their purchasing power is 1 marble divided between and subtracted from my original 10 marbles ....( they ain't worth as much as before ) ...that imaginary marble , is exerting a lot of power ,,,,,,, perceived power

Try using a debt free system , or not paying a debt back ...... the fraudsters get well bent , Edward the 3rd to the peruchi family , One mad German , The melchivicks and two American presidents ....and they all had one thing in common.... a terminal headache

Stephen

[mashman]

Sorry but you are the dumb fuck not me. Anyone who can grasp the concept of a supply and demand graph and understand the basis of the price system would not make a retarded claim that resources are not scarce and that is just a budget constraint.

The other issue with your fantasy is that if you remove money from the equation then as you say resources can be delivered anywhere. The problem is that of you remove money then someone has to decide where resources are allocated. Who does that? You walk right into a politburo and central planning elites and a communist nightmare. That is real corruption. At least with money resources are allocated according to what people want. Each dollar is a vote people can decide what they want and how badly they need / want it.

Remove that ability to vote and the common man becomes a beggar to the elites at the top who decide who gets what.

Grow up please. This kind of rbe idiocy is communism in disguise and for idolistic children who don't know any better.

Comes under logistics fucknugget. And I think I've proven that the logistics are in place but the money isn't. Your denial of such logic, reason and common sense shows just how fuckin dumb you really are. Just another rote learned moron.

According to what people want? The poll shows what people want. So, WTF are you talking about in regards to what people want?

Elites will stay Elite no matter what because they control the money supply and set the policy of distribution you fuckin moron.

Communism in disguise? :killingme :crybaby: :killingme Yet another scared old blind white muthafucka that's sorely out of touch with what people want... let alone what they'd be prepared to do in order to live RBE... let alone how economics actually work. You're an embarrassment. You have my pity.

[Akzle]

I use a Cow because there is a moral component for killing another Cow without making full use of the first one. Which boils down to one of the problems I have read in the RBE literature provided by Mashman et al - it assumes that one can always get more of a resource and that there is no loss of opportunity - And I'm interested in what these RBE experts will say in response to these questions.



Well, Money didn't generate the Scarcity of Steak, that's just it, Almost every resource is Finite in some manner and is therefore scarce BEFORE the introduction of Money (this is where my position of Money isn't the problem comes from).

As you say - either way someone misses out - In a Monetary system, everyone has agency to earn and then based on those earnings, acquire goods and services to their taste(s) and the value of said earnings. If you want something you can't afford, you have the agency to either educate or take risk to earn more to acquire said things. This happens constantly until some form of balance is acheived (even if said balance is unfair)

In an RBE, Neither Mashman or any of the reading material has ever answered this point - how are scarce resource is allocated in a way that is not arbitrary and does not impact on personal choice.



Well, Interest provides an incentive to lend money and an incentive to pay it back quickly, and a little bit of inflation does everyone good.

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/30300000/Godzilla-Facepalm-godzilla-30354011-640-387.jpg

[jonbuoy]

Comes under logistics fucknugget. And I think I've proven that the logistics are in place but the money isn't. Your denial of such logic, reason and common sense shows just how fuckin dumb you really are. Just another rote learned moron.

According to what people want? The poll shows what people want. So, WTF are you talking about in regards to what people want?

Elites will stay Elite no matter what because they control the money supply and set the policy of distribution you fuckin moron.

Communism in disguise? :killingme :crybaby: :killingme Yet another scared old blind white muthafucka that's sorely out of touch with what people want... let alone what they'd be prepared to do in order to live RBE... let alone how economics actually work. You're an embarrassment. You have my pity.

It makes you look silly when people try to discuss your system in a reasonable manner and your response is to spit out petty insults.

[Jin]

All I'm seeing is gibberish and denials.

Just answer the question. Who decides how the resources are allocated in a rbe?

[mashman]

It makes you look silly when people try to discuss your system in a reasonable manner and your response is to spit out petty insults.

No it doesn't. It makes you look silly for focusing on the delivery. Coz when I talk to people like this in real life, using sweary words etc... people aren't offended by that delivery. Could it be that you're all so precious that you think my approach is aggressive? When in reality it is anything but, in fact in reality it's you projecting attitude onto my post for me incorrectly. Silly indeed. Grow the fuck up :bleh:

[mashman]

Just answer the question. Who decides how the resources are allocated in a rbe?

Figure it out for yourself :facepalm:... it ain't hard. As a starter for ya ya lazy fuck, do you think any group of people should receive better resources than another?

[Brian d marge]

Money is a medium of exchange. Saying its energy doesnt make sense maybe its how you try to fool gullible people into thinking you know what you are talking about. Why do people grow forests? Because you seem to imply money reduces the incentive to produce and conserve resources which is stupid. It is the opposite. Is a bottle of milk perceived energy? Because I can swap money for milk. What about a whore? She takes money.

And more importantly in this wonderful utopian paradise of yours, who exactly is it that decides where and how resources are allocated?
Go away and think about what I said
Then come back with an worthwhile answer

sent for a divine source

[mashman]

Go away and think about what I said
Then come back with an worthwhile answer

sent for a divine source

I dare you to hold your breath til.

[mashman]

Actually... does anyone here think there are groups of people who should get access to resources before they come up for general consumption?

[jonbuoy]

No it doesn't. It makes you look silly for focusing on the delivery. Coz when I talk to people like this in real life, using sweary words etc... people aren't offended by that delivery. Could it be that you're all so precious that you think my approach is aggressive? When in reality it is anything but, in fact in reality it's you projecting attitude onto my post for me incorrectly. Silly indeed. Grow the fuck up :bleh:

My point exactly - you need to learn to discuss things like an adult not a petulant teenager.

[jonbuoy]

If you want to get your point accross you need to see that anyone who is opposed is at least interested in the subject. A good politician would try and turn them to your side - not throw petty insults around.

[Akzle]

If you want to get your point accross you need to see that anyone who is opposed is at least interested in the subject. A good politician would try and turn them to your side - not throw petty insults around.

well fuck me dead. "a good politician"
is that your idea of a joke?
because i'd be laughing at you, not with you.

unfortunately for belief, his points (some at least) are in fact, fact. ergo whether you want to get the point or not, doesn't really matter. 'cos is.

adults are demonstrably fucking stupid. we should replace them all with teenagers.

[Brian d marge]

If you want to get your point accross you need to see that anyone who is opposed is at least interested in the subject. A good politician would try and turn them to your side - not throw petty insults around.

Donald Trump

[mashman]

My point exactly - you need to learn to discuss things like an adult not a petulant teenager.

If you want to get your point accross you need to see that anyone who is opposed is at least interested in the subject. A good politician would try and turn them to your side - not throw petty insults around.

I do discuss things like an adult. Thought I'd made that clear. If not, give it some thought.

Why would I try to convince someone of something that they're simply not ready to understand? Also, why would I not have fun with such a thing? I don't want to be a good politician. I want to get things done.

[mashman]

adults are demonstrably fucking stupid. we should replace them all with teenagers.

This'n agrees with you too... yet 24 years later of the saviour economoney :yawn:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJJGuIZVfLM

[jonbuoy]

I do discuss things like an adult. Thought I'd made that clear. If not, give it some thought.

Why would I try to convince someone of something that they're simply not ready to understand? Also, why would I not have fun with such a thing? I don't want to be a good politician. I want to get things done.

Be honest with yourself - you just like arguing. If you were seriously interested and wanted to get things done you wouldn't be here you would be on a dedicated website or actually joining a party that was sympathetic to your views.

[husaberg]

Be honest with yourself - you just like arguing. If you were seriously interested and wanted to get things done you wouldn't be here you would be on a dedicated website or actually joining a party that was sympathetic to your views.

<marquee behavior="alternate" direction="up">
<img src="http://www.brooklynvegan.com/files/img/music2/stupidparty.jpg" width="280" height="320" alt="mashy party">
</marquee>

[mashman]

Be honest with yourself - you just like arguing. If you were seriously interested and wanted to get things done you wouldn't be here you would be on a dedicated website or actually joining a party that was sympathetic to your views.

I Am honest with myself. I detest arguing... ask anyone who actually knows me. And who says that I aren't a member of several RBE sites or indeed that I am not a member of a political party advocating RBE? So many assumptions you guys make.

[Akzle]

Be honest with yourself - you just like arguing. If you were seriously interested and wanted to get things done you wouldn't be here you would be on a dedicated website or actually joining a party that was sympathetic to your views.

http://momfaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/ignorance.jpg

[husaberg]

6th May 2012 - 10:41

[jonbuoy]

I Am honest with myself. I detest arguing... ask anyone who actually knows me. And who says that I aren't a member of several RBE sites or indeed that I am not a member of a political party advocating RBE? So many assumptions you guys make.

Face to face maybe but you seem to enjoy it on here? So are you an active member of any political party?

[mashman]

Face to face maybe but you seem to enjoy it on here? So are you an active member of any political party?

Oh I'll happily stand my own ground face to face... but then when the sweary insults start flying, my smile can be seen. Why should I be sad about something as positive as RBE? I am currently an active member of a registered RBE advocating political party, yes.

[jonbuoy]

Oh I'll happily stand my own ground face to face... but then when the sweary insults start flying, my smile can be seen. Why should I be sad about something as positive as RBE? I am currently an active member of a registered RBE advocating political party, yes.

There we go an adult answer to a question :hug:

[TheDemonLord]

I thought you'd be that useless... but hey.

So, I take it you aren't going to ask the questions on my behalf?

Pity really, as I was interested in what they would give as answers, too bad that Religious Zealots tend to avoid the questions that they can't answer.

In reference to Jonbuoy's observations - I'll leave this here - see if you can work out which one you sound like (I'll give you a clue - its the lady who refuses to answer the questions that they don't like):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTSbfs32yCU

[TheDemonLord]

Its only scarce , if a perceived value is placed upon it and how can a balance be unbalanced? ...quote ; (even if said balance is unfair)

Sure, everything is a matter of perception when it comes to value, but if enough people perceive it to have value and that number exceeds Demand - then we see the Value increase,


Sea water is finite , but I'm unaware of any value....or scarcity..

Clearly you haven't talked to Greenpeace then :lol::lol:


As for interest , the greatest fraud upon mankind ..... I have 10 marbles , all the marbles on the planet ,,,,I lend them to you at 10% interest ..... you must give me 11 marbles back ....

WHERE did that 11th marble come from???? did you suddenly create something from nothing ???

Ok say I , You cannot find 1 marble ..then you owe me ! 1 marble of your energy , after all you agreed to the debt .....

So from now on , you will be always striving to pay back that 11th marble ....because there is only 10 original marbles ...

Now , I have an inflation rate of 1 marble , each of my previous 10 marble are now devalued by 1/10 , i.e their purchasing power is 1 marble divided between and subtracted from my original 10 marbles ....( they ain't worth as much as before ) ...that imaginary marble , is exerting a lot of power ,,,,,,, perceived power

Try using a debt free system , or not paying a debt back ...... the fraudsters get well bent , Edward the 3rd to the peruchi family , One mad German , The melchivicks and two American presidents ....and they all had one thing in common.... a terminal headache

Stephen

Here's the answer to your riddle - which as you present looks superficially like a Catch 22, and for the purposes of my Answer - I'll assume that only you and I exist and I'll solve it with no extra Marbles created:


I've paid you back 10, I owe you one. I then use my Time and Skills to provide goods/services to you at a cost - lets say I fix your PC, and I charge you 3 Marbles (my rates aren't cheap). I then pay you back 1 Marble. I have paid you a total of 11 Marbles, my Debt is paid. Your net wealth is now at the 8 Marbles you have AND the 3 Marbles worth of services that you have consumed (in this case in the form of a working PC), I have 2 Marbles that I am free to spend as is my want.

Generation of Wealth 101 - Trading Time and skills.

[TheDemonLord]

Actually... does anyone here think there are groups of people who should get access to resources before they come up for general consumption?

Abso-fucking-Lutely - the People who got off their Arse to acquire said resources.

[TheDemonLord]

do you think any group of people should receive better resources than another?

Yes I do, If that group has contributed something of value to society.

[TheDemonLord]

Okay Last comment - apologies for the Multi posting.



Comes under logistics fucknugget. And I think I've proven that the logistics are in place but the money isn't. Your denial of such logic, reason and common sense shows just how fuckin dumb you really are. Just another rote learned moron.

According to what people want? The poll shows what people want. So, WTF are you talking about in regards to what people want?

Elites will stay Elite no matter what because they control the money supply and set the policy of distribution you fuckin moron.

Communism in disguise? :killingme :crybaby: :killingme Yet another scared old blind white muthafucka that's sorely out of touch with what people want... let alone what they'd be prepared to do in order to live RBE... let alone how economics actually work. You're an embarrassment. You have my pity.

What is hilarious is that from what Jin has written - we are at different ends of the Political spectrum - and yet, we both call your Snakeoil out for what it is.

Either we share a common delusion (which you will no doubt claim) or we share a common understanding, but by all means - keep avoiding the questions that you know you don't have answers for, it keeps reminding me of just how right I am and how wrong you are.

[mashman]

So, I take it you aren't going to ask the questions on my behalf?

Pity really, as I was interested in what they would give as answers, too bad that Religious Zealots tend to avoid the questions that they can't answer.

In reference to Jonbuoy's observations - I'll leave this here - see if you can work out which one you sound like (I'll give you a clue - its the lady who refuses to answer the questions that they don't like):

Attempt at justifying ones own lack of understanding

See, I answered your questions relatively thoroughly. That you didn't like the answers, oh irony of all irony's, doesn't mean that they weren't answered and very much in context. As such, why would I continue the discussion with you where clearly demonstrated that you are clearly not gaining any understanding of RBE at all? The Parable of The Pub.

:yawn:

[mashman]

Abso-fucking-Lutely - the People who got off their Arse to acquire said resources.

So that's a no from you then?

[mashman]

Yes I do, If that group has contributed something of value to society.

:facepalm: strike 2.....

[TheDemonLord]

See, I answered your questions relatively thoroughly. That you didn't like the answers, oh irony of all irony's, doesn't mean that they weren't answered and very much in context. As such, why would I continue the discussion with you where clearly demonstrated that you are clearly not gaining any understanding of RBE at all? The Parable of The Pub.

:yawn:

Your answer could be summed up as 'get more resources' which directly violates one the stipulations - so No, you didn't answer it.

When there is greater demand than supply - How does an RBE allocate resources that is not arbitrary and does not infringe on personal choice (without simply saying, we will get more resources).

[mashman]

What is hilarious is that from what Jin has written - we are at different ends of the Political spectrum - and yet, we both call your Snakeoil out for what it is.

Either we share a common delusion (which you will no doubt claim) or we share a common understanding, but by all means - keep avoiding the questions that you know you don't have answers for, it keeps reminding me of just how right I am and how wrong you are.

You're calling logic, reason and common sense snakeoil? Sounds like a fuckin stupid thing to say given the poll results thus far eh?

You're not delusional... you're merely out of date.

[Brian d marge]

Sure, everything is a matter of perception when it comes to value, but if enough people perceive it to have value and that number exceeds Demand - then we see the Value increase,



Clearly you haven't talked to Greenpeace then :lol::lol:



Here's the answer to your riddle - which as you present looks superficially like a Catch 22, and for the purposes of my Answer - I'll assume that only you and I exist and I'll solve it with no extra Marbles created:


I've paid you back 10, I owe you one. I then use my Time and Skills to provide goods/services to you at a cost - lets say I fix your PC, and I charge you 3 Marbles (my rates aren't cheap). I then pay you back 1 Marble. I have paid you a total of 11 Marbles, my Debt is paid. Your net wealth is now at the 8 Marbles you have AND the 3 Marbles worth of services that you have consumed (in this case in the form of a working PC), I have 2 Marbles that I am free to spend as is my want.

Generation of Wealth 101 - Trading Time and skills.
Ummm no

It's impossible to do UNLESS u go into debt

sent for a divine source

[TheDemonLord]

Ummm no

It's impossible to do UNLESS u go into debt

sent for a divine source

...
...
...

I just proved it was...

[mashman]

Your answer could be summed up as 'get more resources' which directly violates one the stipulations - so No, you didn't answer it.

When there is greater demand than supply - How does an RBE allocate resources that is not arbitrary and does not infringe on personal choice (without simply saying, we will get more resources).

Sorry, where did I say get more resources? Think you're looking for your usual strawman exit.

Intelligently. Something you have demonstrated yourself incapable of by not coming up with a single group that should receive priority for resource. Tis dead easy. My kids can answer it with more than 1 group.

[Brian d marge]

...
...
...

I just proved it was...
No you had to do work ..fix the PC in order to clear the debt
I.e u were in debt to me


sent for a divine source

[mashman]

...
...
...

I just proved it was...

No, I saw you say that you'd suck his dick to get out of having to pay the extra marble back... a marble that simply doesn't exist. What you gonna do if he wants a marble and nothing else?

[TheDemonLord]

You're calling logic, reason and common sense snakeoil? Sounds like a fuckin stupid thing to say given the poll results thus far eh?

You're not delusional... you're merely out of date.

Come back to me when you have adjusted the poll for Response, non-response and Coverage Bias, then we will talk about your Poll results.

Otherwise I will prove that 100% of NZers are for the stoning of Homosexuals to Death*















*when asked at a radical Mosque in NZ

[Akzle]

Abso-fucking-Lutely - the People who got off their Arse to acquire said resources.

ok. i'll rob you for it.

[mashman]

Come back to me when you have adjusted the poll for Response, non-response and Coverage Bias, then we will talk about your Poll results.

Otherwise I will prove that 100% of NZers are for the stoning of Homosexuals to Death*

*when asked at a radical Mosque in NZ

Your example is geographical and targets a single group. Mine isn't. And that's to start with. Apple and orange comparison does not logic, reason and common sense make. Go on, keep on truckin big man...

[TheDemonLord]

Sorry, where did I say get more resources? Think you're looking for your usual strawman exit.

From your source:


NZMA and KiwiHarvest feed thousands with unwanted food

Article originally published at Stuff.co.nz Perfectly good food destined for the rubbish dump is feeding society’s most vulnerable people.

It doesn't address the problem of personal choice - the vulnerable people have no choice (because they have no means to make a choice) - they are in effect, taking what they are given.

If this is your RBE solution, that everyone lines up at a Soup Kitchen to be ladled out whatever our Glorious leader has provided for us that day, then you can keep it.



Intelligently. Something you have demonstrated yourself incapable of by not coming up with a single group that should receive priority for resource. Tis dead easy. My kids can answer it with more than 1 group.

I'm pretty sure I said the group that should recieve priority is the group that worked to get it - let me check:

Yep here it is:


the People who got off their Arse to acquire said resources.

[TheDemonLord]

No you had to do work ..fix the PC in order to clear the debt
I.e u were in debt to me


sent for a divine source

I was in debt when I borrowed the Marbles and Agreed to Interest. I worked to pay off the Debt. Once Paid, I am no longer in debt.

Generation of Wealth 101.

[TheDemonLord]

No, I saw you say that you'd suck his dick to get out of having to pay the extra marble back... a marble that simply doesn't exist. What you gonna do if he wants a marble and nothing else?

Katman, is that you?

WTF is it with Conspiracy Nutters and Cock sucking?

[TheDemonLord]

Your example is geographical and targets a single group. Mine isn't. And that's to start with. Apple and orange comparison does not logic, reason and common sense make. Go on, keep on truckin big man...

So does yours - Motorcyclists.

And given the number of people who hold very specific views (About 9/11, Money, Cocksucking and Jews) - I'd say that it is absolutely in need of adjustment for Bias.


What's the matter? Scared your numbers won't sound as impressive if you actually do a statistical control for them? Afterall - 100% of NZers......

[TheDemonLord]

ok. i'll rob you for it.

You can try, just as I can try to stop you by the various means available to me - Burglar alarms, Anti Theft Devices, the Police (when they can be distracted from writing speeding tickets), self defence etc.

[mashman]

It doesn't address the problem of personal choice - the vulnerable people have no choice (because they have no means to make a choice) - they are in effect, taking what they are given.

If this is your RBE solution, that everyone lines up at a Soup Kitchen to be ladled out whatever our Glorious leader has provided for us that day, then you can keep it.


Nope, you've just described the financial system, present day :killingme...





I'm pretty sure I said the group that should recieve priority is the group that worked to get it - let me check:

Yep here it is:

Like I said, my kids can answer that question in a far more intelligent manner. As such, I just asked the eldest, 13, and she said the elderly. Not exactly what I had in mind, but it still illustrates the point that you are so blissfully unaware of.

[mashman]

Katman, is that you?

WTF is it with Conspiracy Nutters and Cock sucking?

It's a metaphor. Not actual. Only a latent homosexual would think anyone meant otherwise. Stay away from mosques eh.

[TheDemonLord]

Nope, you've just described the financial system, present day :killingme...

Only if you ignore an individuals agency - then sure, I would have described the Current system. Except Individuals DO have Agency, so I didn't. You were saying something about Strawmen?


Like I said, my kids can answer that question in a far more intelligent manner. As such, I just asked the eldest, 13, and she said the elderly. Not exactly what I had in mind, but it still illustrates the point that you are so blissfully unaware of.

Right right, so when you said:


by not coming up with a single group that should receive priority for resource.

What you actually meant was:


I'm going to say that you haven't come up with a single group that should receive priority for resource because I didn't like your answer.

I'm sure you were saying something about Strawmen?

[TheDemonLord]

It's a metaphor. Not actual. Only a latent homosexual would think anyone meant otherwise. Stay away from mosques eh.

You mentioned it, not me.

You were saying something about Latent Homosexuality?

All this projection, its the best laugh I've had out of you in a while

[mashman]

So does yours - Motorcyclists.

And given the number of people who hold very specific views (About 9/11, Money, Cocksucking and Jews) - I'd say that it is absolutely in need of adjustment for Bias.


What's the matter? Scared your numbers won't sound as impressive if you actually do a statistical control for them? Afterall - 100% of NZers......

Nice deflection, great save :facepalm:

What bias?

Strawman steps up to the plate, he swings, misses and smashes himself in the face. You don't like the results so want them changed :killingme :crybaby: :killingme...

[mashman]

Only if you ignore an individuals agency - then sure, I would have described the Current system. Except Individuals DO have Agency, so I didn't. You were saying something about Strawmen?

bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... you described the current system, because thta's exactly what those guys are doing and it has nothing to do with RBE, yet scorned it as if it were you'd be totes unhappy.



Right right, so when you said:

What you actually meant was:

I'm sure you were saying something about Strawmen?

So everyone that dug the minerals. Everyone that created the machinery to get the minerals dug. Everyone that's provided food for those who have provided those minerals etc...?

That's not a strawman, that's me dismissing your pathetic attempt at an answer... same as the second group that you failed with for the same reasons as the first ones.

[mashman]

You mentioned it, not me.

You were saying something about Latent Homosexuality?

All this projection, its the best laugh I've had out of you in a while

And scene.

[Akzle]

You can try, just as I can try to stop you by the various means available to me - Burglar alarms, Anti Theft Devices, the Police (when they can be distracted from writing speeding tickets), self defence etc.

i've got more guns than you.

You can't whinge, i'm getting off my arse to better my lot. Free market and shit.

[TheDemonLord]

Nice deflection, great save :facepalm:

What bias?

Strawman steps up to the plate, he swings, misses and smashes himself in the face. You don't like the results so want them changed :killingme :crybaby: :killingme...

Mashman gets an answer he doesn't like and ignores it.

And no, its not a Deflection - a group of people who share traits such as Risk Taking and a Penchant for non-conformity.

For the record though - I've never cared for the results on KB - however there is one person here who holds them up as Gospel validation of their faith.

Also - whilst doing some reading for this response - I came across this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3694217/#B17

Now, how many individuals on this site does that describe - that they believe in one Conspiracy, and one someone posted something Conspiratorial, they believe that as the more likely explanation.

One of the cited studies also had something interesting in the Abstract:


Belief in conspiracies was correlated with anomia, lack of interpersonal trust, and insecurity about employment.

[TheDemonLord]

bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... you described the current system, because thta's exactly what those guys are doing and it has nothing to do with RBE, yet scorned it as if it were you'd be totes unhappy.

Except I didn't, Cause you know - Ignoring Agency.


So everyone that dug the minerals. Everyone that created the machinery to get the minerals dug. Everyone that's provided food for those who have provided those minerals etc...?

That's not a strawman, that's me dismissing your pathetic attempt at an answer... same as the second group that you failed with for the same reasons as the first ones.

TL:DR - You don't like the answer, so dismiss it.

[TheDemonLord]

i've got more guns than you.

That's a work in progress - hopefully going to get my Cat-A this year.


You can't whinge, i'm getting off my arse to better my lot. Free market and shit.

Just like you can't whinge when I use my ass to protect my lot - but I'm glad you agree that the system works.

[mashman]

Mashman gets an answer he doesn't like and ignores it.

And no, its not a Deflection - a group of people who share traits such as Risk Taking and a Penchant for non-conformity.

For the record though - I've never cared for the results on KB - however there is one person here who holds them up as Gospel validation of their faith.

Also - whilst doing some reading for this response - I came across this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3694217/#B17

Now, how many individuals on this site does that describe - that they believe in one Conspiracy, and one someone posted something Conspiratorial, they believe that as the more likely explanation.

One of the cited studies also had something interesting in the Abstract:

So you didn't take it as an opportunity to read about RBE? :killingme... you thought, I know, it's all conspiracy, that's where he's coming from. Genius. :yawn:

[Brian d marge]

I was in debt when I borrowed the Marbles and Agreed to Interest. I worked to pay off the Debt. Once Paid, I am no longer in debt.

Generation of Wealth 101.
And u still fail to explain where the 11 th marble came from
Thin air??

sent for a divine source

[mashman]

Except I didn't, Cause you know - Ignoring Agency.

TL:DR - You don't like the answer, so dismiss it.

Except you did. You quoted the site and it's response to a situation that exists under a financial system.

I didn't dismiss it. You didn't answer the questions of clarification.

[Akzle]

That's a work in progress - hopefully going to get my Cat-A this year.



Just like you can't whinge when I use my ass to protect my lot - but I'm glad you agree that the system works.

go join a three gun club and try for your b&e at the same time. Pay the fee once. Ftp.

A system that encourages thievery. :niceone:

There's this picture, where it has a dot that's labelled "you" and this other dot, labelled "point", and the second dot is ahead of an arrow, and the arrow goes past the first dot.

Yeah. You're the first dot.

[Akzle]

And u still fail to explain where the 11 th marble came from
Thin air??

sent for a divine source

ive tried explaining this one to him before.
The science hasn't penetrated the fat between his ears yet...

[TheDemonLord]

And u still fail to explain where the 11 th marble came from
Thin air??

sent for a divine source

Yes I did, Money Velocity.

[TheDemonLord]

Except you did. You quoted the site and it's response to a situation that exists under a financial system.

The solution however removes Personal Choice - which does exist under the current system, thus it is not the current system, is it?

It's a different system - called Charity.


I didn't dismiss it. You didn't answer the questions of clarification.

If you go out and cut down a tree, you get first dibs on what to do with the wood from that Tree.

Simple innit.

[TheDemonLord]

So you didn't take it as an opportunity to read about RBE? :killingme... you thought, I know, it's all conspiracy, that's where he's coming from. Genius. :yawn:

I've read all I care to, unless you have new information on the subject - which was the point of me asking you to ask the questions in the first place - to get new information.

It just so happened that looking for other info - I stumbled across that, and I found it interesting.

[TheDemonLord]

ive tried explaining this one to him before.
The science hasn't penetrated the fat between his ears yet...

HEY!

My head isn't Fat, only my Glorious Beer Gut.

[Akzle]

If you go out and cut down a tree, you get first dibs on what to do with the wood from that Tree.

Simple innit.

whose tree .

[TheDemonLord]

whose tree .

Depends on who is asking....


A system that encourages thievery

And once cut Down, it becomes your tree.

Then you can use the wood to build a Fence, and claim some Land.

Then you can be truly British, see your neighbor with a better bit of land and go over to his patch, Crown yourself Emperor/Empress, claim his patch as part of your empire, and then pillage it for resources.

[Brian d marge]

Yes I did, Money Velocity.
No it is impossible
10 marbles in the beginning
If you charge interest
Where does that 11th marble come from
Thin air .....or the fed

It the 11 marble has to be fictional and the basis of debt



sent for a divine source

[TheDemonLord]

No it is impossible
10 marbles in the beginning
If you charge interest
Where does that 11th marble come from
Thin air .....or the fed

It the 11 marble has to be fictional and the basis of debt



sent for a divine source

If you pay me 3 Marbles for IT support, and I pay you back a Marble - I have paid you a total of 11 Marbles - Yes? That is where your 11th Marble comes from.

In return, you now have a net wealth of 11 Marbles (8 Marbles + 3 Marbles worth of goods and services)

If we extend the Metaphor to the Banking system (as it exists) then the Banks create the 11th Marble in recognition of the increased net wealth - Aka Inflation.

Money Velocity. Generation of Wealth.

It's simple.

[mashman]

The solution however removes Personal Choice - which does exist under the current system, thus it is not the current system, is it?

It's a different system - called Charity.

Of course it's the current system. If the charity doesn't step up, they get nothing. So they're actually being given the extra choice for free. Why are you always so negative? I give you outs all over the place and you miss every single one of them.



If you go out and cut down a tree, you get first dibs on what to do with the wood from that Tree.

Simple innit.

Sorry. I planted that tree, it's mine.

[Jin]

Figure it out for yourself :facepalm:... it ain't hard. As a starter for ya ya lazy fuck, do you think any group of people should receive better resources than another?
So you don't know. Glad we cleared that up.

[mashman]

I've read all I care to, unless you have new information on the subject - which was the point of me asking you to ask the questions in the first place - to get new information.

Your limited reading shows.

[TheDemonLord]

Of course it's the current system. If the charity doesn't step up, they get nothing.

And?

Oh! I'm supposed to Care that they don't.

Error 404.

Sympathy not found.


So they're actually being given the extra choice for free.

Do they get to choose the Food that they receive? Or do they only have the choice of accepting what they are given (which isn't really a choice at all)?


Why are you always so negative?

Part of my Endearing personality.


I give you outs all over the place and you miss every single one of them.

Think about that, and assume that I didn't miss them.


Sorry. I planted that tree, it's mine.

Sure. Prove it.

[TheDemonLord]

Your limited reading shows.

Well, It wouldn't be so limited if you actually posted some answers once in a while......

[mashman]

So you don't know. Glad we cleared that up.

I do. So does my 13yr old daughter. So no, not even close to being cleared up. But i can see why you're so desperate to believe that.