Power to weight restriction [Archive] - Page 2

Paranoid Android

30th March 2008, 10:11

but now there will be more to confuse the police that were struggling with the simpler rules. i have had cops tell me even on a learners you can do 100 kph others saying 70 on a restricted. will having a lot of different bike and ccs make it easier. i have known of people on learners to ride larger bikes.

but i do think the hundred 100 restriction should be removed.

sell your cbrs and zxrs now if guys can get a 400 or a 600 they will ;)

Bonez

30th March 2008, 10:32

Any links with more info as I had decided to do my license in NZ as opposed to the UK. That all sounds like it might be just another way of trying to put potential biker off getting thier license.No, on the contry, it smacks of common sence.

Romeo

30th March 2008, 10:38

So if we currently own a 45hp stonker of a 250, what are they going to do when the new rules are implemented?

<img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1248/1428416702_b7983047b3.jpg" alt="I've seen more scooter crashes than motorcycle crashes" />

Also, is there ANY distinction between "motorcycle riders" and scooter riders? Because I've seen a massive increase in the number of squids on scooters, but not so much an increase in learner motorcycle riders.

It's drummed into us time and again that traffic is the most dangerous place, yet the vast majority of learner traffic riders are on scooters - and they're seldom wearing any gear!

Rage

Mikkel

30th March 2008, 10:47

I think you're allowed to ride scooters and mopeds on your car license...

I'm guessing this could be partly why - as you wouldn't have to put up with ridiculous restrictions if you have a full car license.

Japtwin

30th March 2008, 11:06

If the other party dosnt pay up you lose you no claim till they do.

My point exactly; insurance companies will always cover their ass first and foremost, they are there to make money out of their policy holders. Helping you out is their secondary consideration. I agree that this situation sucks as its totally not of your doing, however forcing everyone to have 3rd party means that a large number are forced to pay to subsidise someone elses failure; screw that.

Kickaha

30th March 2008, 11:07

I think you're allowed to ride scooters and mopeds on your car license...

There is a HP and CC retsriction on doing that

PrincessBandit

30th March 2008, 11:15

ah well, better watch out I don't RAM YA then

DB

You'd NEVER do that, I'm sure, you're too nice ;)

Mikkel

30th March 2008, 11:16

There is a HP and CC retsriction on doing that

Yeah, but you're still allowed to ride the little beasties above 70 km/h (if you can get it up there...), ride between 10 pm and 5 am, take a pillion, etc. All of this without even having a learners motorcycle license. You just need a full class 1.

Which is pretty ridiculous considering some of the 6L and 6R restrictions! (for the record I think it's the 6L and 6R restrictions that are ridiculous)

PrincessBandit

30th March 2008, 11:18

however forcing everyone to have 3rd party means that a large number are forced to pay to subsidise someone elses failure; screw that.

Isn't that what the rest of us who have insurance are doing in a way? Life is soooo unfair. :crybaby:

MidnightMike

30th March 2008, 12:29

My little friend who has just purchased an RGV is a tad nervous.
At 150KW per tonne there are going to be a lot of 250s excluded?

The rule is that you will now need a full class 6 license to ride a 2 stroke 250cc bike. All the rules for the other 250s will remain the same im pretty sure.

Also, is there ANY distinction between "motorcycle riders" and scooter riders? Because I've seen a massive increase in the number of squids on scooters, but not so much an increase in learner motorcycle riders.

It's drummed into us time and again that traffic is the most dangerous place, yet the vast majority of learner traffic riders are on scooters - and they're seldom wearing any gear!

Got that right, most of them are pimply little 15 year olds riding around like little shitheads. Even a few days ago I saw someone jumping speed bumps on their one in a t shirt and jeans raping the crap out of their already pathetic excuse for suspenion (made a great crunching sound when it landed) And a helmet is all 95% of them wear. Im still waiting to witness someone leaving half of there skin on the road after a little slide in a t shirt and shorts. *ouch*

There is a HP and CC retsriction on doing that

Sure is, 2kw and 50cc, and something about being capable of only 50 or 60kph, but thats ridiculously anyway, with hills, tail winds etc. :lol:

Coyote

30th March 2008, 13:40

LMFAO. Technological developments - there hasn't been made a new powerful 250 ccm road bike for quite a few years now... :rolleyes:
I lol'd at that one too.

Geezzz, so many pages to read. Gonna take a while before I can speak my opinion without repeating someone else.

Jiminy

30th March 2008, 14:13

List of approved motorcycles for the aussie scheme here (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/tests/motorcycleridertrainingscheme/motorcyclesnoviceriders.html). Will be the same of very similaralar.

Yeah, the Ural and the GV650R are on The List :)

Is it fair that motorcyclists should be singled out for more restrictive conditions than their four wheeled cousins ?

Hopefully the cagers are next. But even if not, the proposal is such an improvement!

Also yeah the curfew is dumb, personally I think riding around town late at night is much safer than in the day! Almost non-existent traffic and it being dark means it's easy to see headlights.

Got to disagree here. As much as I've hated the curfew, I can see its place. I don't even dare to think of the drivers/riders we would find on the road on week-end nights without the curfew!

Hope the govt eventually follow Aussie on the 'turning left gives way' rule. NZ adopted this soon after Oz. Oz repealed this 9 months later because it doesn't work, did NZ follow their advise........no:jerry:

If only. It would be about time to get rid of that rule like the rest of the world!

discotex

30th March 2008, 15:41

My point exactly; insurance companies will always cover their ass first and foremost, they are there to make money out of their policy holders. Helping you out is their secondary consideration. I agree that this situation sucks as its totally not of your doing, however forcing everyone to have 3rd party means that a large number are forced to pay to subsidise someone elses failure; screw that.

I'd be all for voluntary 3rd party insurance if the fucker that knocks me off my bike will be forced to pay immediately regardless if they have insurance or not. If they have no money then I seize their assests. If they have no assests then I get to chop off a finger/toe/ball. etc etc etc... If those were the rules I'd agree with you.

The reality is that most people don't/won't/can't pay up so I'd rather pay my share to know they're forced to so I can get my car fixed. I'll pay my bit and no whinge in case I fuck up and the world will go around much smoother.

And yes the insurance industry will get their cut. But only because people aren't prepared to do the decent thing in the first place.

quallman1234

30th March 2008, 15:45

So you get rid of the 250 2 smokers? - There's what about 5 people with learners riding these?

and Add a heap of 250 cc + bikes for learners.

And you expect the deaths/crashes to lower?

Doesn't make sense to me but hell im not complaining now!

Swoop

30th March 2008, 16:14

If there is a little bit of confusion in this thread, just remember that several threads have been merged into this one.

lb99

30th March 2008, 16:34

Cracked me up though, as you aren't allowed a TZ 250, but an RD350 is sweet?
..... ;)

thats fuckin cool, I am slowly cooking up an RD350 in my garage that promises to be a fuckin weapon, I don't see my CBX400F on the list, but the RD will be fine, that suits me nicely:baby::baby:

pritch

30th March 2008, 16:54

Yeah, but you're still allowed to ride the little beasties above 70 km/h (if you can get it up there...), ride between 10 pm and 5 am, take a pillion, etc. All of this without even having a learners motorcycle license. You just need a full class 1.
Which is pretty ridiculous considering some of the 6L and 6R restrictions! (for the record I think it's the 6L and 6R restrictions that are ridiculous)

I'm not quite sure where you're coming from here.

Do not learner and restricted car drivers also have restrictions? I'm assuming that these restrictions also apply if they ride a moped. Also I understand passengers are not permitted on a moped at any time.

I'm aware that there's always going to be an exception, but exceeding 70kph on a moped is well into wet dream territory...

CookMySock

30th March 2008, 16:57

You'd NEVER do that, I'm sure, you're too nice ;)indeed. I'm of the opinion that YOUR rights are more important than MY rights. I submit that if we all took this line, that the world would be a better place. or something..

DB

Ragingrob

30th March 2008, 17:11

Hmmm so CBRs and ZXRs and the such are all allowed... But I thought that these were the pocket rockets that they weren't wanting?

Ragingrob

30th March 2008, 17:21

Actually I'm pretty sure CBRs have more than 150kW per Tonne, if I've worked it out correctly.

Paranoid Android

30th March 2008, 17:24

does seem odd that the cbr and zxr are on the allowed list. they are both over the limit.

Bonez

30th March 2008, 17:25

Ragingrob

30th March 2008, 17:26

McJim

30th March 2008, 17:41

Yeah well that's the Aussie list right? So I'm guessing the NZ list is even tougher! Cause yeah cbrs and zxrs, dunno about vtrs or gsxrs and the such, but yeah they will all not be allowed or very borderline.

You did remember to add 90kg to allow for rider and fuel when you did the calculation didn't you?

JimO

30th March 2008, 17:43

You did remember to add 90kg to allow for rider and fuel when you did the calculation didn't you?

only 90???:niceone:

McJim

30th March 2008, 17:49

only 90???:niceone:
Aren't you glad we have full licences (as well as splendid names)?

JimO

30th March 2008, 18:09

Aren't you glad we have full licences (as well as splendid names)?

indeed............. i got my full in 1975:blink:

McDuck

30th March 2008, 18:45

indeed............. i got my full in 1975:blink:

u must be old....

Ragingrob

30th March 2008, 18:48

You did remember to add 90kg to allow for rider and fuel when you did the calculation didn't you?

It includes the rider's weight?? Lol how on earth are the cops meant to patrol kW/tonne let alone the rider's weight aswell?!

Does it definitely include weight of rider?

shingo

30th March 2008, 18:51

It includes the rider's weight?? Lol how on earth are the cops meant to patrol kW/tonne let alone the rider's weight aswell?!

Does it definitely include weight of rider?

They use 90kgs as a ball park figure, it's meant to allow for the average rider and fuel combined.

McDuck

30th March 2008, 18:52

I recon the cops should just carry a set of scales in the car and have the dry weight plus rider weight, but that would be to hard.

Harry33

30th March 2008, 18:55

u must be old....

Yeah didn't Moses part the Red Sea back then :jerry:

CookMySock

30th March 2008, 19:01

gee what is going to happen to the fast two-stroke 250's then ? They are not a legal learner machine, not reeeeeely worth upgrading TO from a learner bike, and certainly no substitute for a litre bike..

Gee they might all end up on the track.. bummer.

DB

McJim

30th March 2008, 19:17

It includes the rider's weight?? Lol how on earth are the cops meant to patrol kW/tonne let alone the rider's weight aswell?!

Does it definitely include weight of rider?

According to one of Ixion's posts near the start they will take the manufacturer's cliamed dry weight and will add 90kg to allow for fluids (oil, coolant, petrol) and an average rider. They will then take the manufacturers claimed kW output (although they haven't specified if it will be at the wheel or crank) and if it exceeds 150kW per tonne the bike will have to be limited or will not be allowed on a learner/restricted licence. This is why the only bikes that will really be affected are the 2 stroke 250s coz they put out near 60hp. The 45hp of a cbr250, zxr250 will not push them over the limit.

quickbuck

30th March 2008, 19:19

I recon the cops should just carry a set of scales in the car and have the dry weight plus rider weight, but that would be to hard.

Yeah, and a Dyno while they are at it...

Heck why don't we all just stop at weigh bridges for them to check out licences.
Full licences carry on, learners ride over the scales, onto the dyno, get chained down... Rev the tits off your bike and ride off with a ticket for being too loud.....

McDuck

30th March 2008, 19:44

Yeah, and a Dyno while they are at it...

Heck why don't we all just stop at weigh bridges for them to check out licences.
Full licences carry on, learners ride over the scales, onto the dyno, get chained down... Rev the tits off your bike and ride off with a ticket for being too loud.....

pmsl

10 char

Coyote

30th March 2008, 19:58

Ixion

30th March 2008, 20:15

Sigh. I see people are still confused. Forget about weights, and horsepower and weight bridges.

What matters is the LIST. If it's on the list , it's learner legal. Not on the list, it's not (but, read the bloody thing properly, please)

Doesn't matter what you reckon your 600 Puffmocycle weighs, or produces. On the list? Good to go. Not on the list ? here's 50 demerits.

Where the 150 kw and stuff comes in, is that is how (amongst other things) the sheeple will decide whether to put it on the list in the first place. More than 150kw per tonne, no show. Less than 150kw/t, maybe (NOT definately, they can still exclude them if they want)

The lists the thing.

scumdog

30th March 2008, 20:20

Sigh. The lists the thing.

And for Pete's sake (who the hell is pete anyway?) people it's big enough, sheesh!!:mellow::brick:

But I guess for the KB whinger brigade it won't be big or good enough:nono:

JimO

30th March 2008, 20:21

Swoop

30th March 2008, 20:23

Do not learner and restricted car drivers also have restrictions?
They have curfew and the usual restrictions, but do not have any engine capacity/size limitations during that time (afaik!).

WelshWizard

30th March 2008, 20:29

u must be old....
got mine in the early 60's and still rideing, though there have been a few Car drivers that have tried there best to stop me over the years,

The main thing is we are still rideing ( against the odds, for how long who knows, find out one day I suppose)

rwh

30th March 2008, 20:40

Sigh. I see people are still confused. Forget about weights, and horsepower and weight bridges.

What matters is the LIST. If it's on the list , it's learner legal. Not on the list, it's not (but, read the bloody thing properly, please)

Except, I don't think I've seen any mention of a list in any of the news reports. Only on here. No mention of a 90kg allowance for rider either, for that matter.

Do you (Ixion - since you were the source of some of these things) have access to sources that the rest of us don't?

Richard

quickbuck

30th March 2008, 20:43

Sigh. I see people are still confused. Forget about weights, and horsepower and weight bridges.

Hey, it was a P/T from me.
Got a bit of bling too....
Cheers guys.

Anyhow, and this is agreeing with you Ixion, the list.
The only one we have seen is the Aussie one for an example...

The NZ one is still to be created.
Will be interesting to see one soon...

I'm sure the importers will want a sneak preview too :innocent:
I guess in the mean time a good old educated guess at exactly what will definitely comply will suffice.
Those that are marginal, well then may be best to assume it is too powerful... for the time being....

Of course these changes are PROPOSALS.

Ixion

30th March 2008, 20:45

Dear Harry's media release specifically said that they were going to follow the Oz LAMS model. That means a list. That's how it works in Oz. They have the same 150 hp/t thing BUT THE LIST IS WHAT MATTERS.

There (obviously) isn't a NZ list yet. But it's as certain as anything involving sheeple can be, that they will start with the Victorian list and then add or subtract . We have ahd some bike sin this country that Oz never got. So there will be a good case to ask for the inclusion of (eg) the 400 cc jap market twins and singles.

The 90kg rider thing is how the Oz authorities work it out. If NZ follows the LAMS model (as Harry says they will) then they'll use the same, or similar, calculation. It's possible that NZ could do something different but I'd think it very very improbable. At least, unless someone specifically asks them to.

avgas

30th March 2008, 20:48

quickbuck

30th March 2008, 20:51

Well that would be where the rider education thing comes into it then.

mister.koz

30th March 2008, 20:54

The 45hp of a cbr250, zxr250 will not push them over the limit.

Wooohooo! jeez taking an average weight of 90kg is a little unfair on us 100kg+ guys :s but so long as i can ride my zxr i am happy. :Punk:

mister.koz

30th March 2008, 20:59

If they mirror the aussie ones here is the aussie list (sorry if its already mentioned here)

http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/pdfs/lams_gls/lams_list_current.pdf

Ixion

30th March 2008, 21:05

But i still think they are going about this the wrong way.
Drop the learner limit to say 150, restricted up to max 400.
I under stand the power to weight ratio thing - but what im not happy about is the fact that on a lowly XR600 i can still out pull with enough torque to wheelie up to 100kph......just perfect for a learner.
We are all hoons when learning bikes.......10 foot tall and bulletproof.
Giving learners bigger bikes is like giving them a bigger gun.
Without the basic principals, its all a waste.
But mabey i missed the point and after sitting a small scratchy test and riding round a car park young people have enough experience to handle 50+hp on a 160kg frame? I certainly wasn't ready for even 30hp (on a 130kg bike) and this showed 2 weeks later with me going through a fence.

Very good point. Let us remember that the PURPOSE of this to REDUCE motorcycle crash and injury rates. That's why the Government is doing it , not cos they think it's unfair that Bikiboi isn't allowed a 300kph weapon

I've started a separate thread here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=70505)to canvas opinion on whether it will work or not.

mister.koz

30th March 2008, 21:05

I have just read through their proposals and stuff and i wonder how effective it will be?

I think the day riding lights and 3 year limit on the licence is a good idea, kinda tricks people into not stagnating but apart from that it looks to me more like they are making it more complicated for some kind of "statistical" logic.

Lots of power is a bad thing for someone who can't control it but i know of quite a few bikes that fit into the LAM thing and are just as dangerous as some of the ones that don't.

"In my experiece, any attempt to make any system idiot proof will only challenge God to make a better idiot"

The idea is good but how can they honestly say that higher training wouldn't be effective, learning off people who know whats going on is the best thing i think, i'm going for training anyways.

rwh

30th March 2008, 21:17

Dear Harry's media release specifically said ...

Cheers, must have missed that one - came in on one of the later merged threads.

Richard

Mikkel

30th March 2008, 21:43

I'm not quite sure where you're coming from here.

Do not learner and restricted car drivers also have restrictions? I'm assuming that these restrictions also apply if they ride a moped. Also I understand passengers are not permitted on a moped at any time.

I'm aware that there's always going to be an exception, but exceeding 70kph on a moped is well into wet dream territory...

I was kinda considering the situation where someone who already holds a 1F goes to get a 6L.

He'll have less restrictions riding a scooter allowed under his 1F, compared to riding it under a 6L or 6R. Am I the only one who can see the madness in that?

CookMySock

31st March 2008, 06:06

I am puzzled why they want to TEACH people to ride properly. Do they WANT more superbly experienced and qualified riders on superbikes ? why ? We don't see many litre+ bikes travelling at lightspeed, but we will if they keep this up. One of them will be me LOL.

It seems to me that most riders don't have the nuts or the skills to move on to litre-class bikes, coz if they did, they would. Picture a world where everyone is superbly qualified and experienced on superbikes.. :love: Well into the "holy shit" category. (or is it the holy grail category)

DB

quickbuck

31st March 2008, 06:22

It seems to me that most riders don't have the nuts or the skills to move on to litre-class bikes, coz if they did, they would.

DB

This is BS.
Those with the skills either ride one, or they realise there is actually no point in owning one....
Just because I have a 600 doesn't mean I can't ride a 1000.

quickbuck

31st March 2008, 06:28

I am puzzled why they want to TEACH people to ride properly. Do they WANT more superbly experienced and qualified riders on superbikes ? why ? We don't see many litre+ bikes travelling at lightspeed, but we will if they keep this up. One of them will be me LOL.

DB
Hell, you are having a bad morning.

Just noticed this bit!

Going by this logic, all the students studying Nuclear Science at Uni are going to go out and split the atom for their theseus.

And, since when was too much education an issue?

NighthawkNZ

31st March 2008, 06:36

It seems to me that most riders don't have the nuts or the skills to move on to litre-class bikes, coz if they did, they would.

thats the biggest load of crud I have heard in a while...

CookMySock

31st March 2008, 06:47

I suppose you did notice that I said "it seems to me" on the beginning of that didn't you ?

DB

Gubb

31st March 2008, 06:57

I suppose you did notice that I said "it seems to me" on the beginning of that didn't you ?

DB

Whatsamatter? You gonna ask for his badge number next?

I have had many of my opinions dismantled piece by piece, I also learned that when people reply with a countering view to my opinion, that counts as theirs. Seems like your only pro free speech when it suits your agenda.

PrincessBandit

31st March 2008, 07:08

I was kinda considering the situation where someone who already holds a 1F goes to get a 6L.

Mmmmm. I've had my 1F since '79 then to suddenly go to a 70kph restriction and not being able to be out after 10pm (hello??? at my age.....:lol:) just seemed stupid. (Obviously as long as I was tucked up in my cage it was still ok though). Having said that, it wasn't all that long to endure and I guess that the assumption that the skills you have from driving a car don't automatically make you a hotshot rider has some merit. Most people ignore the restrictions anyway and take the risk of being caught so it kinda ends up not really being an issue, unless you get caught eh?
p.s. no wise cracks about me being out "late" instead of tucked up in bed with a hot milo by 10pm! Anyway I have me full 1 and 6 so :bleh: :rolleyes:

idleidolidyll

31st March 2008, 07:14

It seems to me that most riders don't have the nuts or the skills to move on to litre-class bikes, coz if they did, they would.

DB

rubbish!

many don't because it's stupidly expensive. those might look like production bikes out there but they sure as hell aint: they have many thousands of dollars spent all over them.
On top of that running costs are higher: Tyres cost way more (1 race 2 tyres for the better guys), brakes wear faster and the whole shebang is just more expensive.

plus some people just don't wanna ride in line 4's

there's more to it than your personal motivations

When it comes to road bikes the reasons NOT to ride 1000cc sportbikes are even greater: Without constantly breaking the law by a large degree or riding dangerously for yourself or others, those bikes are wasted on the street. How many times have you heard an R1 rider or Gasaxe rider say they only have fun when they are breaking the speed limits by massive amounts? I've heard it so many times I can't count em! In fact many of us have learned that less is more. My next bike will have about 60% of the HP my current one has and it will be more fun and actually faster on the most interesting roads.

Usarka

31st March 2008, 07:16

it's definitely a monday morning :wacko:

Edbear

31st March 2008, 07:24

Well, all I can say is I'm glad I got my full first time on a Honda 50 stepthough back in '74 as my old B31 was too hard to start...

I sympathise with those going for their licence these days but understand the regs and the need for them.

"Hooning" back then usually involved lower speeds and much less traffic. Think about it, most 250's these days, especially the sports bikes, put out about the same or more hp than my old T500 did and that was considered a fast bike in its day! Any bike that could "top the ton" was fast! Most bikes were tapped out at about 140km/h.

Not even race bikes put out 150+hp and now you've got street bikes putting out 190+ and weighing far less with acceleration that makes your eyes water!

Same with cars, my first "car" was a flat-twin, 8hp, (no that's not a misprint!!), and would "easily" top 40mph but had rod-actuated brakes that would eventually slow you down if you stood on the pedal with both feet and buried it in the wooden floor...

McDuck

31st March 2008, 07:36

CookMySock

31st March 2008, 07:57

Seems like your only pro free speech when it suits your agenda.I will stand up for YOUR rights to free speech until the fucking sky turns black, so back off!

Look mate, I already (publicly!) said I was sorry about that red bling and other shit too, but you are not going to stop crashing my arse are you ? I'm starting to feel quite hurt and angry about your personal remarks directed at me. Not at any time did I publicly attack you.

Steve

Mikkel

31st March 2008, 10:17

Mmmmm. I've had my 1F since '79 then to suddenly go to a 70kph restriction and not being able to be out after 10pm (hello??? at my age.....:lol:) just seemed stupid. (Obviously as long as I was tucked up in my cage it was still ok though). Having said that, it wasn't all that long to endure and I guess that the assumption that the skills you have from driving a car don't automatically make you a hotshot rider has some merit. Most people ignore the restrictions anyway and take the risk of being caught so it kinda ends up not really being an issue, unless you get caught eh?
p.s. no wise cracks about me being out "late" instead of tucked up in bed with a hot milo by 10pm! Anyway I have me full 1 and 6 so :bleh: :rolleyes:

Yes, that is exactly what I'm getting at. Absolutely rubbish. The curfew may make sense for teenagers getting into driving - but after that sanity stops.

HOWEVER - if I choose to ride after 10 pm on my 6R and had an accident I might get into trouble with my insurance company because I would be riding outside my license restrictions... :crazy: One has to dig a little deeper than the "uh oh, I might get caught by the police" IMHO.

When it comes to road bikes the reasons NOT to ride 1000cc sportbikes are even greater: Without constantly breaking the law by a large degree or riding dangerously for yourself or others, those bikes are wasted on the street. How many times have you heard an R1 rider or Gasaxe rider say they only have fun when they are breaking the speed limits by massive amounts? I've heard it so many times I can't count em! In fact many of us have learned that less is more. My next bike will have about 60% of the HP my current one has and it will be more fun and actually faster on the most interesting roads.

+1 very good post!

Look mate, ... you ... arse ... .

:eek: Mate, do you want this to go international? :angry2:

:lol:

Disco Dan

31st March 2008, 10:38

Hmm ok... so the prices of bikes that are on this L approved list will most likely go up. Just like 250cc bikes are inflated now for licenses. But now these higher priced bikes are going to include 600cc bikes too.

In theory the likes of a ZXR250 - the price will drop, but I cant see many people who start off on a 600 'learner' going out and buying a ZXR250 after their next license stage...

It gives the dealers an opportunity to put the price up on more bikes in the showrooms and powerful 250cc bikes will lose their market.

Have I got this right???

McDuck

31st March 2008, 10:46

Have I got this right???

yessssssss

SlowHand

31st March 2008, 11:21

This is BS.
Those with the skills either ride one, or they realise there is actually no point in owning one....
Just because I have a 600 doesn't mean I can't ride a 1000.

I have a 750. It means I can't ride a 1000 cos I aint got one...

Whats your secret?

scracha

31st March 2008, 16:32

It seems to me that most riders don't have the nuts or the skills to move on to litre-class bikes, coz if they did, they would

??? Why would I go back to riding a bike that can't legally get to 75% of it's redline in 1st gear?

It seems to me that many litre bike riders don't have the balls or skills to ride smaller bikes properly, cost if they did, the would.

mark247

31st March 2008, 17:49

So what is going to happen to the dudes on the 2 stroke 250's and stuff on there learners licences now, they cant just make it illegal? There must be a change over period ya think?

mattian

31st March 2008, 17:54

mark247

31st March 2008, 17:57

Thats BS !! What about all those learner riders that own a 250 that isnt on the list? Will the government compensate them the price of the bike that they own but can't ride anymore? and.... good luck trying to sell it off.... who the hell is going to buy it?? I repeat.... its BS !!

this is exactly what im saying, there must be a change over period of some sort. Just like they did with party pills lol.

Taz

31st March 2008, 18:33

Glad I've kept my XT600. Still too nice a bike to sell. And there will be lots of parts available from the crashed learner XT's to help keep it going.

Gubb

31st March 2008, 18:36

I will stand up for YOUR rights to free speech until the fucking sky turns black, so back off!

Look mate, I already (publicly!) said I was sorry about that red bling and other shit too, but you are not going to stop crashing my arse are you ? I'm starting to feel quite hurt and angry about your personal remarks directed at me. Not at any time did I publicly attack you.

Steve

WTF?!? :eek5:
When have I ever attacked you? I've never made any personal remarks. You made a stupid comment in another thread,Posts 69 & 80 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=68332&page=5) that many people on here think is amazingly amusing. If your upset that your own comments are being used against you, that's not my fault.

Anywho, back on topic, At least the 70Km'h limit is going, it was largely ignored anyway. Although, other than wearing an L plate, there's no difference between 6L and 6R right?

WelshWizard

31st March 2008, 18:40

So what is going to happen to the dudes on the 2 stroke 250's and stuff on there learners licences now, they cant just make it illegal? There must be a change over period ya think?

Wake up this is New Zealand, the World Bank rates as a third world country and this government loves bringing in retro active laws, feel sorry for the guys and gals on their 2 smokes,as the value on them will drop as far as learners are concerned, watch out for cheap 2 smoke scooter shortly, any one for a classic Vespa, ( back in the 60's they were great for doing wheelees on, not much else as they were two slow up the top end compared to my Conny (700cc RE Twin for the youngsters here) but you had very little chance of doing a wheelee with the Conny even if it was 100MPH plus motorcycle.

Ixion

31st March 2008, 18:42

Most likely is that they'll have a phase over period if you have an L or R now and own a 'prohibited' model, they'll give you , in effect, an exemption for the minimum time you would need to get your full. Issue will be that selling the prohibited machine will be more difficult because the exemption will only be available to those who own one at the time the rule comes in.

McDuck

31st March 2008, 18:48

The way i see it if you are rich enough to spring for a rs250 you can buy a different bike. (coming from somebody who cant afford those sorts of bikes)

Roj

31st March 2008, 18:57

If the other party dosnt pay up you lose you no claim till they do.

Depends on the insurance company, if you are able to prove the other party was in the wrong, then you don't lose the no claims (at least that is the way my insurance comany as worked several times)

Roj

31st March 2008, 19:09

indeed............. i got my full in 1975:blink:

u must be old....

I haven't had mine quite that long but it was also REALLY easy to get, did the written and verbal tests, got given a provisional license, valid for 8 weeks, then went back to do the practical test, which, cause the traffic officer was in a hurry that day was a few figure 8s in the carpark, then 6 months latter it automatically became a full licence without any further test...:2thumbsup

I would hate to have to go through all the palava again

mark247

31st March 2008, 19:13

Depends on the insurance company, if you are able to prove the other party was in the wrong, then you don't lose the no claims (at least that is the way my insurance comany as worked several times)

Im pretty sure that's how all insurance claims work, i think its in the Insurance Act or whatever its called.

Roj

31st March 2008, 19:23

When it comes to road bikes the reasons NOT to ride 1000cc sportbikes are even greater: Without constantly breaking the law by a large degree or riding dangerously for yourself or others, those bikes are wasted on the street. How many times have you heard an R1 rider or Gasaxe rider say they only have fun when they are breaking the speed limits by massive amounts? I've heard it so many times I can't count em! In fact many of us have learned that less is more. My next bike will have about 60% of the HP my current one has and it will be more fun and actually faster on the most interesting roads.

Have to agree, I ride a classic honda because it is what I like, I don't go all that fast, but it can still get to instant loss of licence territory. I can do a days riding and not have to get the kinks out of my back:scooter:

scumdog

31st March 2008, 19:38

Will the government compensate them the price of the bike that they own but can't ride anymore?

Yeah, just the same way they refunded tickets for those caught doing 60mph (98kph) after the speed limit was bumped from 50mph to 60mph.

Titanium

31st March 2008, 19:39

What do the Aussies do?

The power to weight ratio is a measure of the motorcycle’s performance and is a better indicator of performance than engine capacity alone. The power output (kilowatts) is divided by the tare weight of the motorcycle + 90 kg (for rider and fuel). The result is then multiplied by 1000 (to convert to kw per tonne). The figure of 90 kg is used in this calculation because this is the figure used for testing braking in Australian Design Rule ADR33 ‘Brake Systems for Motorcycle and Mopeds’. The manufacturer determines the engine power and tare weight of the motorcycle.

wantabike

31st March 2008, 19:53

McDuck

31st March 2008, 19:58

I just got my learners, so how is this going to affect me?

I want to buy a bike so I can learn, but whats the point if I get a bike then they ban it. I will be in trouble then because i'm not made of money.

Can anyone help or do reckon just go for it?

Just go for it.

I dont know of any 4 stroke 250s that are going to be banned. You should not be learning on a two stroke 250 anyway.
What very you do dont get sucked in by a salesman. Take a convenient KBer with you.

Rogue

31st March 2008, 20:05

Yep I feel sorry for the youngsters today :cry:
Got my full in '76 had provisional for one week,then answered 5 or so questions and then went for a ride around the block with the TC on his bike behind me and that was it :2thumbsup
Got my HT in '86 drove up the road to a pub backed into the driveway (thought the bugger was goin to shout me a drink) and then drove back
Things were much simpler back then.

wantabike

31st March 2008, 20:06

thank you I will :cool:

mark247

31st March 2008, 20:22

The power to weight ratio is a measure of the motorcycle’s performance and is a better indicator of performance than engine capacity alone. The power output (kilowatts) is divided by the tare weight of the motorcycle + 90 kg (for rider and fuel). The result is then multiplied by 1000 (to convert to kw per tonne). The figure of 90 kg is used in this calculation because this is the figure used for testing braking in Australian Design Rule ADR33 ‘Brake Systems for Motorcycle and Mopeds’. The manufacturer determines the engine power and tare weight of the motorcycle.

interesting, i never realised they added the 90kg on.

rachprice

31st March 2008, 20:52

Shit!
I agree with this approach, it makes a lot of sense the 2-stroke 250's are very fast and can be a worry with learner riders
Not good for me who happens to have brought an RGV to learn on (I know it is an intense bike to learn on, definitely not the best) but got it because it was a cheap 250 I could afford on my not so awesome student income.
So who knows what will happen, I guess I will deal with it when the time comes.

quickbuck

31st March 2008, 21:52

I have a 750. It means I can't ride a 1000 cos I aint got one...

Whats your secret?

Borrow my mates...

Best thing about motorcycles: You can ride your mates bike and still be mates.

Dodger

1st April 2008, 10:27

Compulsory headlights at all times

A mate of mine (and long time biker) feels very strongly about this, as in it SHOULD NOT be law.

Franticly his feeling is that "yes", you should have your light on, but the law shouldn't be in place to make it a crime if it's not. How many Cage drivers are going to say "I didn't see him because he didn't have his light on" (even if it was) and thus make it into a he said/she said argument after a crash?

He also said that he's managed to forget to turn the light on after switching it off to start a bike with a dodgy battery.

Next they will want it law for us all to wear hi-vis vests... heh, maybe we need a guy to run in front of the bike with a bell to warn people that we are approaching like in the good old days?

scumdog

1st April 2008, 10:37

A mate of mine (and long time biker) feels very strongly about this, as in it SHOULD NOT be law.

Franticly his feeling is that "yes", you should have your light on, but the law shouldn't be in place to make it a crime if it's not. How many Cage drivers are going to say "I didn't see him because he didn't have his light on" (even if it was) and thus make it into a he said/she said argument after a crash?

He also said that he's managed to forget to turn the light on after switching it off to start a bike with a dodgy battery.

Next they will want it law for us all to wear hi-vis vests... heh, maybe we need a guy to run in front of the bike with a bell to warn people that we are approaching like in the good old days?

A couple of points:

IF you chose not to have your light on and because of that get hit? - you're still hit, regardless of what the other driver says. (And if you get hit even with your light on? - mehh, at least you gave it a shot at being visible.)

And more and more bikes are hardwired these days - so the "I turned the light off to start my bike because it has a dodgy battery" story won't come into it so much anymore.

Dodger

1st April 2008, 10:41

(And if you get hit even with your light on? - mehh, at least you gave it a shot at being visible.)

Except if the cage driver says you didn't have the light on (even if you did), it would make YOU in the wrong regardless of what else they or you did. and near imposable to prove otherwise. (eg. prove the rider didn't turn the light on after the crash?)

The hard-wired lights is a good idea, but not all bike have this. My 2006 Hyo doesn't, nor do any of my mates 6 bikes (including a 2008 model)

scumdog

1st April 2008, 10:45

Except if the cage driver says you didn't have the light on (even if you did), it would make YOU in the wrong regardless of what else they or you did. and near imposable to prove otherwise. (eg. prove the rider didn't turn the light on after the crash?)

If the light is hard-wired as mentioned then it's not a problem.

And if you've been cleaned out by a car the semantics of 'he didn't have his lights' - 'yes I did' are the least of your worried.

Look at it this way: IF it was law all bikes had to be hard-wired with lights on when ignition is on the above argument wouldn't come into it, would it?

So making it law to have your bike hard-wired makes more sense eh?

mattian

1st April 2008, 12:15

this is exactly what im saying, there must be a change over period of some sort. Just like they did with party pills lol.

yeah, sorry man, wasnt saying BS to you..... I was saying that law is BS !! go on.... say it out loud right now... it makes you feel so much better !!!!!!
altogether now "Thats Bullshite"!!

onearmedbandit

1st April 2008, 13:01

Except if the cage driver says you didn't have the light on (even if you did), it would make YOU in the wrong regardless of what else they or you did. and near imposable to prove otherwise. (eg. prove the rider didn't turn the light on after the crash?)

Even if your headlight was smashed in the accident it can still be determined if the light was on or off.

JimO

1st April 2008, 13:12

Even if your headlight was smashed in the accident it can still be determined if the light was on or off.

Gill Grissom would find out the truth

onearmedbandit

1st April 2008, 13:14

Pah, Gill doesn't do any of the work, just hogs the limelight from his lackies.

DarkLord

1st April 2008, 13:30

Government announces (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0803/S00490.htm)new rules for motorcycles

3 year maximum on learners.

Sorry if this is a dumb question or has already been answered but what does this mean exactly? Does it mean that after 3 years on your L's you go to your restricted automatically? Or does it mean that if you don't get your restricted after 3 years you lose your learners??

Sorry, a little confused here :confused:

Ixion

1st April 2008, 13:34

The latter. After three years your L expires and you have to start over. New basic handling, renewed minimum period etc.

DarkLord

1st April 2008, 13:37

You're joking. Damn, that sucks. All the more reason to get my R's ASAP. Is there an expiry period on learner or restricted licences of any kind (bike or car) at the moment?

Ixion

1st April 2008, 13:38

No. At present you can stay on L for your lifetime.

Dodger

1st April 2008, 13:52

No. At present you can stay on L for your lifetime.

Yep, I have two friends that have had their learners for 15 and 18 years respectively :whistle:

Rosie

1st April 2008, 13:59

No. At present you can stay on L for your lifetime.

Are you sure? All the learner/restricted licences I've had under the no-longer-lifetime-licence system have been listed as expiring when I turn 35 (when I have to apply for a new licence). I'm not sure what happens at that point, whether they really do expire, or whether they get carried over to the new licence.

Gubb

1st April 2008, 14:14

The hard-wired lights is a good idea, but not all bike have this. My 2006 Hyo doesn't, nor do any of my mates 6 bikes (including a 2008 model)

My '07 is Hardwired. As is my mates '06. Maybe your is, but it's busted.

Ixion

1st April 2008, 14:14

They have the standard 10 year validity period, but , like any other licence, you can renew then just by taking a new eye test. Exactly the same as a full.

Dodger

1st April 2008, 15:12

My '07 is Hardwired. As is my mates '06. Maybe your is, but it's busted.

Strange, I have a 2006 Gt250 though (not R) There's a headlight switch just above the starter button. ON/PARK/OFF (not that I ever turn it off)

Gubb

1st April 2008, 15:18

Strange, I have a 2006 Gt250 though (not R) There's a headlight switch just above the starter button. ON/PARK/OFF (not that I ever turn it off)

My bad, didn't realise you had the Comet version. Obviously they are slightly different.

chasio

1st April 2008, 20:00

Yeah, but you're still allowed to ride the little beasties above 70 km/h (if you can get it up there...), ride between 10 pm and 5 am, take a pillion, etc. All of this without even having a learners motorcycle license. You just need a full class 1.

Is that right? So despite the fact that I'm a n00b with 3 months experience on 2 motorised wheels, my 20 year old 1F allows me to ride ride at 100kmh with a pillion at 3am? I'd be one of the "aged over 30" statistics waiting to happen if I did that.

Frankly I'd shit myself carrying a pillion at 100kmh, but I can see situations where bypassing the 6L restrictions would be handy e.g. occasional school runs or working late.

Are you 100% certain that the 1F takes precedence over the 6L on those things? Bloody handy if so...

Ixion

1st April 2008, 20:11

rwh

1st April 2008, 21:03

Even if your headlight was smashed in the accident it can still be determined if the light was on or off.

I thought that was only if it was smashed - they can tell whether the filament was hot when it broke/burnt out (it would burn out with the bulb broken if it's on, and may or may not break if it's off).

If the bulb isn't broken, it will cool down in the normal way, and you won't be able to tell when it happened.

That's my understanding, anyway.

Richard

chasio

1st April 2008, 21:18

ONLY, repeat ONLY on a moped! And only for a few months more.

If you can get a moped up to 100kph with a pillion , you may find the poice asking some searching questions about the declaration that was made when it was registered.

Thanks for setting me straight. I can see if I'd read a bit more carefully than hopefully I'd have got that first time! Just as well they're closing the loopholle on mopeds, too.

Yeees, 100kmh 2-up out of 2kw does seem a tad unlikely

dummer

2nd April 2008, 16:10

Its gotta suck if you just got one of the 250's that have been excluded..

Yeah...:gob:

Don't understand why they exclude all 2 stroke 250 as with most 2 stroke 250 are Jap 2nd hand import, they are restricted to 40/45hp anyway. With a dry weight of 134kg, they should still fall inside the 150kW/1 tonne

Sorry...I know I will be bias...

Tank

3rd April 2008, 11:00

Yeah...:gob:

Don't understand why they exclude all 2 stroke 250 as with most 2 stroke 250 are Jap 2nd hand import, they are restricted to 40/45hp anyway. With a dry weight of 134kg, they should still fall inside the 150kW/1 tonne

Sorry...I know I will be bias...

I dont think they will exclude all 2-strokes. Just some that are specifically listed like they do in OZ. If it falls under the limit you will still be good to go.

dummer

3rd April 2008, 13:34

I dont think they will exclude all 2-strokes. Just some that are specifically listed like they do in OZ. If it falls under the limit you will still be good to go.

:brick:
I mean those race replica 250 specified in the list in OZ... We are not getting the euro version NSR/RGV here...not like RS250 which has 70hp out of the factory, Jap emission law has limited all the jap 2-stoke to 40/45hp(forgotten 40 or 45) max...just like CBR600RR local jap version has less power than our local one.

BLazeD

3rd April 2008, 19:55

Stupid "only these bikes" rules, I just got my learners and will be getting an exemption.

A f*c$ 1 year on restricted for over 25's!

Ragingrob

3rd April 2008, 20:01

Remember that these rules aren't even nearly certain to come into force AT ALL yet mate!

McDuck

3rd April 2008, 21:30

Stupid "only these bikes" rules, I just got my learners and will be getting an exemption.

A f*c$ 1 year on restricted for over 25's!

On what grounds? Take the chip off your shoulder and remember that the rules are there to (try) to save morons from themselves.

rachprice

3rd April 2008, 21:35

:brick:
I mean those race replica 250 specified in the list in OZ... We are not getting the euro version NSR/RGV here...not like RS250 which has 70hp out of the factory, Jap emission law has limited all the jap 2-stoke to 40/45hp(forgotten 40 or 45) max...just like CBR600RR local jap version has less power than our local one.

I dunno if this is right, we did get some RGVs that are unrestricted, I'm pretty sure mine is the K-model which isn't restricted. I think its around 55hp.

dummer

4th April 2008, 09:10

I dunno if this is right, we did get some RGVs that are unrestricted, I'm pretty sure mine is the K-model which isn't restricted. I think its around 55hp.

All Jap domestic second hand import are 40/45hp unless they have derestricted with euro version parts.
Even though identifying a Jap version or a euro version for LTSA can be difficult but saying a big NO to all 2 stroke replica is just a bit too much. If ppl want to trick the system and derestrict it after they registered as a jap version, well I guess we can't do much to save them. Just like those ppl who try to make 50cc moped go faster than 60km/h.

Badjelly

4th April 2008, 10:33

All Jap domestic second hand import are 40/45hp unless they have derestricted with euro version parts.
Even though identifying a Jap version or a euro version for LTSA can be difficult but saying a big NO to all 2 stroke replica is just a bit too much. If ppl want to trick the system and derestrict it after they registered as a jap version, well I guess we can't do much to save them. Just like those ppl who try to make 50cc moped go faster than 60km/h.

You must stop beating your head against that brick wall, dummer, it must hurt!

You might want to look at the recent posts on another thread with essentially the same subject, eg:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1504585&postcount=63

The message: regulatory authorities are not going to be keen on allowing only the restricted version of a bike on the LAMS list, because they know how easy they are to derestrict. Fair enough in my opinion. (You think they don't know people derestrict mopeds?) But if you think otherwise, you can say so in the public submissions.

aewilliam

4th April 2008, 17:53

wouldn't the low-down torque of bigger cc bikes be a bit nuts to handle for learners?
heck...call my bad here if you could, but i feel safer on my RS250 that cant pop wheelies at the lights unless i give it a SH!Tload of throttle (not the case with 500-660grunt?)

wouldn't the weight that comes along with bigger cc bikes be a bit much to handle for learners?

if learners want to do 100kmh, why not drop the max cc limit to 125/150cc?
A my UZ125 scoot does 100kmh.
With this a 125cc 2T, these max out around 150kmh - the same as current 250cc i believe, so wouldnt give a rats sphincter about any kind of 'restricted' list of sub-150cc bikes...

And again, once youre over 100kmh its illegal nonetheless.

Don't see how the proposed law changes regarding the nature of the bike are gonna do ANYTHING for road safety.
The law changes regarding EDUCATION are by far a better idea.

McDuck

4th April 2008, 20:59

if learners want to do 100kmh, why not drop the max cc limit to 125/150cc?
A my UZ125 scoot does 100kmh.
With this a 125cc 2T, these max out around 150kmh - the same as current 250cc i believe, so wouldnt give a rats sphincter about any kind of 'restricted' list of sub-150cc bikes...

And again, once youre over 100kmh its illegal nonetheless.

well i want a bike that can do 130 (for passing) without risking internal death.

Oh and i could have handled a 400 (given not a high powered one) pice of piss from the word go. Just becasue you cant handle one dont tarr everybody with the same brush.

Toaster

4th April 2008, 21:11

The helmet rule is for those riding on beaches, I guess???

A beach is classed as road under the LT rules. Its just that they are not actively policed for obvious reasons... the doughnut shop is closer to town.

aewilliam

5th April 2008, 13:55

well i want a bike that can do 130 (for passing) without risking internal death.

Oh and i could have handled a 400 (given not a high powered one) pice of piss from the word go. Just becasue you cant handle one dont tarr everybody with the same brush.

Internal Death? Because you dont want to beat yourself to death inside for NOT overtaking the vehicle? (maybe even on one wheel...)

Again, as i tried to allude to in my first post, the law proposing restrictions on bike characteristics is not gonna change the ATTTUDES of bikers, however the EDUCATION bits may.

Passing at 130km - illegal
BUT can be done on many a 250cc, safely.
Again, passing, at 100kmh, a car doing sub-100, can be done on a 250cc.

So, we want to change the current law to enable novices to do illegal things?

Sounds like somethign the Labour gurrment could think of :rolleyes:

You say "could have handled a 400 (given not a high powered one)". I believe learners wil again go for a 250+ bike that is AS HIGH POWERED AS POSSIBLE within their budget, so the idea of being able to handle a "not a high powered"400cc is never going to have to cross their minds...

Tarring everyone with the same brush?
Would you consider yourself to be an above average rider?
If so, the average & below average rider (statistically these wil make up the largest number of riders) will likely not be able to handle a non-high powered 400.

Torque issues that learners may be confronted with was an idea that did not seem to have been presented as yet in this thread...so i thought i should drop it in.

McDuck

5th April 2008, 15:59

Internal Death? Because you dont want to beat yourself to death inside for NOT overtaking the vehicle? (maybe even on one wheel...)

Again, as i tried to allude to in my first post, the law proposing restrictions on bike characteristics is not gonna change the ATTTUDES of bikers, however the EDUCATION bits may.

Passing at 130km - illegal
BUT can be done on many a 250cc, safely.
Again, passing, at 100kmh, a car doing sub-100, can be done on a 250cc.

So, we want to change the current law to enable novices to do illegal things?

Sounds like somethign the Labour gurrment could think of :rolleyes:

You say "could have handled a 400 (given not a high powered one)". I believe learners wil again go for a 250+ bike that is AS HIGH POWERED AS POSSIBLE within their budget, so the idea of being able to handle a "not a high powered"400cc is never going to have to cross their minds...

Tarring everyone with the same brush?
Would you consider yourself to be an above average rider?
If so, the average & below average rider (statistically these wil make up the largest number of riders) will likely not be able to handle a non-high powered 400.

So that is why they are barring the high powered 400s dew to the power to weight ratio.
I dont feel that i am above average rider but i do feel that i could have handled a 400 cc version of the katana.

Oh by the way i ment internal death of the engine not myself.

mark247

5th April 2008, 17:30

Oh by the way i ment internal death of the engine not myself.

i thought you ment eternal

McDuck

5th April 2008, 17:36

i thought you ment eternal

lolololololol

.produKt

5th April 2008, 18:39

"The 70kph learner limit goes. At last."

Party at my place :D?

mark247

5th April 2008, 18:46

"The 70kph learner limit goes. At last."

Party at my place :D?

I can honestly say when i was on my learners i never once even thought about following this rule. But never once used an L plate either tho.

.produKt

5th April 2008, 19:39

Likewise here.
70km/h on the open from from lets say, Christchurch to hamner springs..... NO.

I did try it once, and i got beeped at, gestures and of course if the paint was any thicker on thier cage, they would have shunted me..... :spanking:

Can't wait till i pick up my cbr400rr :D then i'll be rid of my own cage! *dance*

Dragon

6th April 2008, 09:03

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10500855

I'm glad it won't be until 2010 because then I wouldn't be able to ride the Ninja 250 I'm getting. This will upset alot of people and will boost the new honda cbr125 sales.

I looked at the cbr when I was shopping round for bikes and decided it was to small. For my age weight and height anything smaller then a 250 isn't for me.

MSTRS

6th April 2008, 09:49

Search is your friend http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=70332
And no, the Ninja will be fine

Radar

6th April 2008, 18:10

I'm glad it won't be until 2010

The road safety plan has "2010" in the title but this does not necessarily mean 2010 is when the law changes will take place.
I have looked on the official site and see nothing about implementation of the new laws:
http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/strategy-2010/

Some of the pages on that site have not been updated since 2004 or earlier, which seems slack.

Maybe we should try this:

Email contact: If you have a general enquiry or would like more information about Land Transport New Zealand, or if you have feedback for us, please email
info@landtransport govt nz
(I have removed the dots - would not want to increase spam, even to a gov dept).
We endeavour to reply to all correspondence within 10 working days.

clint640

7th April 2008, 12:00

So, we want to change the current law to enable novices to do illegal things?

No. We want to change the current law 'cos it says young Jimmy n00b can ride an RS/RGV/TZR250 but not a GB400 or DR350 & that is just plain stoopid.

Clint

vagrant

7th April 2008, 17:22

I was amused to see that the RVF400 is on their list of approved learner bikes, in amongst all the chock chasers.

2fst4u

7th April 2008, 17:26

Damnit! no ZXRs, CBRs or GPXs!? now how am i supposed to look like a rebel?

steved

19th April 2008, 13:29

I was amused to see that the RVF400 is on their list of approved learner bikes, in amongst all the chock chasers.

I noticed that too. I'm assuming it was a typo or something because it definitely would not be allowed.

steved

19th April 2008, 13:31

Damnit! no ZXRs, CBRs or GPXs!? now how am i supposed to look like a rebel?

Umm, the only 250s excluded will be the two smokers (NSR, KR etc). CBR250, ZXR250, TZR250 etc will all be allowed if these proposals are adopted into law.

jimmy 2006

22nd April 2008, 07:42

still nothing on when this will be implemented??

2fst4u

22nd April 2008, 19:03

Umm, the only 250s excluded will be the two smokers (NSR, KR etc). CBR250, ZXR250, TZR250 etc will all be allowed if these proposals are adopted into law.

yea. i was reading the one that had them grouped by make and didnt see the "250" section. my bad

Weaver

25th April 2008, 16:07

So has anyone heard any news about when these laws will/might be coming into effect?

RiderInBlack

25th April 2008, 16:36

So has anyone heard any news about when these laws will/might be coming into effect?2010 so I had read.

See:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0803/S00490.htm
When will the changes occur?
The proposals will require changes to the Land Transport Driver Licensing and Road User rules and Land Transport Offences and Penalties Regulations. Amendments to these are included in the 07/08 rules programme and there will be a chance to comment on the proposals as part of the rules consultation process.

And
http://www.transport.govt.nz/ris-bccs/
Motorcycle Safety (PDF, 85kb) (http://www.transport.govt.nz/ris-bccs/assets/NewPDFs/Motorcycle-Safety-RIS.pdf) end of page 6 and start of page 7

The Flux Capacita

25th April 2008, 22:19

sweet deal as long as i can still sell my bike for lots when i'm finnished with it...would be pissed if it suddenly became illegal for restricted and learners its not even that powerfull!!!!

are there any changes to the restricted transition?

quickbuck

27th April 2008, 02:12

Umm, the only 250s excluded will be the two smokers (NSR, KR etc). CBR250, ZXR250, TZR250 etc will all be allowed if these proposals are adopted into law.

Last time I looked, a TZR is a two stroke.

So, NSR, RGV, TZR, KR1, and RS etc will be band for learners.

swbarnett

4th May 2008, 19:54

2010 so I had read. ...

From Motorcycle-Safety-RIS.pdf:

... as part of the implementation of the Road Safety to 2010 strategy and will coincide with the introduction of amending legislation in 2008.
The 2010 is simply part of the name of the strategy. Implementation is planned for 2008 according to this.

Swoop

5th May 2008, 09:09

... as part of the implementation of the Road Safety to 2010 strategy and will coincide with the introduction of amending legislation in 2008.
The 2010 is simply part of the name of the strategy.
I'm reading that as "the public servants will start writing, amending and then will submit the paperwar to parliament during 2008". The retards in Wellington's circular wind-tunnel, will then form committees and sub-committees to discuss this, then will go on overseas holidays (oops! "FACT FINDING TOURS") to see how the rest of the world applies these rules.

Don't expect to see anything of substane until 2010...:rolleyes:

swbarnett

5th May 2008, 11:55

I'm reading that as "the public servants will start writing, amending and then will submit the paperwar to parliament during 2008". The retards in Wellington's circular wind-tunnel, will then form committees and sub-committees to discuss this, then will go on overseas holidays (oops! "FACT FINDING TOURS") to see how the rest of the world applies these rules.

Don't expect to see anything of substane until 2010...:rolleyes:
Yes, I think you're right. I was being overly optimistic me thinks.

23226

10th May 2008, 03:06

Now a learner on a turboed bike. Now there's street cred.

If the CX ends up on NZ list of approved bikes this means we're not going to have to another bike for Connie to get her m/c licence.

I think we need to read his statement carefully :
QUOTE
"has now been duplicated in a number of other
Australian states. In terms of ease of implementation and working
with bike importers and distributors the most expedient option
for New Zealand is to also duplicate the NSW LAMS model and use
their approved list of motorcycles."
End Quote

My interpretation is that there is no "NZ" list,
they are intending to use the aussie list for NZ.

IMO This is not as it should be, and should not be a cause for celebration for the NZ motorcycling fraternity.

There are many issues at stake but simply pricing bikes out of peoples hands could be an intended consequence if the list remains as such.

Titanium

10th May 2008, 06:26

I think we need to read his statement carefully :

There are many issues at stake but simply pricing bikes out of peoples hands could be an intended consequence if the list remains as such.

Such as the 250 cc learner market currently is in New Zealand?

This policy opens up the scope to a larger number of complying motorcycles for learners.

What it will do is thake the heat out of the 250 cc market.

I guess there is a happiness of paying through the roof for 20 year old 250 cc bikes in NZ!

WelshWizard

10th May 2008, 18:12

Such as the 250 cc learner market currently is in New Zealand?

This policy opens up the scope to a larger number of complying motorcycles for learners.

What it will do is thake the heat out of the 250 cc market.

I guess there is a happiness of paying through the roof for 20 year old 250 cc bikes in NZ!

Well the main problem is all those out there who have paid the blackmail price for all the 250 relics out there,
As far as I am concerned it will give more balance to the second hand market, but there will be one hell of a lot of dealers out there with overprice 250's left on their hands.

twotyred

12th May 2008, 19:05

Well the main problem is all those out there who have paid the blackmail price for all the 250 relics out there,
As far as I am concerned it will give more balance to the second hand market, but there will be one hell of a lot of dealers out there with overprice 250's left on their hands.

I expect it will also push the secondhand price of the 400-650 class up... get 'em now!

PirateJafa

14th May 2008, 06:15

What it will do is thake the heat out of the 250 cc market.

I guess there is a happiness of paying through the roof for 20 year old 250 cc bikes in NZ!

Well the main problem is all those out there who have paid the blackmail price for all the 250 relics out there,
As far as I am concerned it will give more balance to the second hand market, but there will be one hell of a lot of dealers out there with overprice 250's left on their hands.

Not at all - owners of the sports two-fiddys will not lose out in the slightest.

If you look at the >250 bikes on the list, they mostly singles and slow.

If a learners wants to get a fast bike, he/she will still be looking for a ZXR or CBR, and will still be willing to pay the same prices we do now.

To put it simply - nothing is going to change for anyone barring cruiser riders. And 250 2-smokers.

u4ea

14th May 2008, 07:34

where have I been?? Just caught up with this thread.It all makes perfect sense to me. About bloody time!!! OK so we might grumble that certain bikes will be "excluded" but at least it opens up the market and larger bikes can be ridden.The 70 k rule is going(I dont know anyone that actually did 70k on learners anyhoo).All in all they heard us!:niceone:

WelshWizard

14th May 2008, 08:51

Not at all - owners of the sports two-fiddys will not lose out in the slightest.

If you look at the >250 bikes on the list, they mostly singles and slow.

If a learners wants to get a fast bike, he/she will still be looking for a ZXR or CBR, and will still be willing to pay the same prices we do now.

To put it simply - nothing is going to change for anyone barring cruiser riders. And 250 2-smokers.

I remember similar words said when the UK introed the 125CC law and got rid of the 250 learner class, killed the 250 market within months,
Only with high fuel cost are 250's starting to sell again the UK, mostly the slow cheap single for cheap commuting, time will tell if this law even gets into the books.

Mikkel

14th May 2008, 13:26

I dont know anyone that actually did 70k on learners anyhoo

Well, you pass 70 km/h on the way to 100 ;)

Also, you have to get around town one way or the other...

PirateJafa

14th May 2008, 20:11

I remember similar words said when the UK introed the 125CC law and got rid of the 250 learner class, killed the 250 market within months,
Only with high fuel cost are 250's starting to sell again the UK, mostly the slow cheap single for cheap commuting, time will tell if this law even gets into the books.

Sorry what? There is a difference between changing to maximum bike size from 250cc to 125cc, and the NZ situation, which is going from 250cc to 250 cc + a handful of larger, but slower bikes

The only people who are going to lose out are people with 250cc two-strokes and possibly* people with 250cc cruisers.

*Possibly, but on the whole I'm not worried about what happens to them as I'm not a cruiser rider.

WelshWizard

15th May 2008, 16:44

Sorry what? There is a difference between changing to maximum bike size from 250cc to 125cc, and the NZ situation, which is going from 250cc to 250 cc + a handful of larger, but slower bikes

The only people who are going to lose out are people with 250cc two-strokes and possibly* people with 250cc cruisers.

*Possibly, but on the whole I'm not worried about what happens to them as I'm not a cruiser rider.

They intro a sim law in the UK some years ago, 250's never came back and sales of 125 even went down

faredce

16th May 2008, 13:13

hold up im still abit confused. iv gt a 125cc is that going to be all good or am i screwed?

u4ea

16th May 2008, 16:37

Well, you pass 70 km/h on the way to 100 ;)

Also, you have to get around town one way or the other...

:slap:..................

mark247

16th May 2008, 16:46

hold up im still abit confused. iv gt a 125cc is that going to be all good or am i screwed?

all it possibly means is that it might lose some of its value. but i doubt an aprilia rs125 would change in value that much as well, because they are not really an average joe learner bike...

WelshWizard

16th May 2008, 19:12

hold up im still abit confused. iv gt a 125cc is that going to be all good or am i screwed?

'
There will still be people out there who want 125's and 250's but their main reason for buying them will be fuel consumtion, any one learning will always be tempted to go for the larger cap bike, a it will take more agro than a small engine and it the I've go bigger balls than you syndrome.

peasea

20th May 2008, 18:51

Don't let the bottom fall out of your world; have a Madras curry and let the world fall out of your bottom.

breakaway

20th May 2008, 19:02

have a Madras curry and let the world fall out of your bottom.

It's spicier coming out than it is going in innit :doctor:

2fst4u

20th May 2008, 19:29

'
There will still be people out there who want 125's and 250's but their main reason for buying them will be fuel consumtion, any one learning will always be tempted to go for the larger cap bike, a it will take more agro than a small engine and it the I've go bigger balls than you syndrome.

none of the bigger bikes on the list scream cool to me. i would still prefer a zxr or cbr

peasea

20th May 2008, 19:44

none of the bigger bikes on the list scream cool to me. i would still prefer a zxr or cbr

I had an FXR for ages, that was pretty comfy.

BANZAI

23rd May 2008, 00:51

Might move to Sydney next year~

So does that mean I can ride this one? :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkPeB1rAagU&feature=related
Weird Music!!!!

RiderInBlack

23rd May 2008, 07:44

Weird Music!!!!
LOL. The Music reminded me of the orginal "Rollerball" movie:laugh: Very "Modern":apint:Tui's.

Coyote

23rd May 2008, 07:52

I haven't seen CBR250's and the like drop in price. The dealers seem pretty keen to keep the price up. The Ninja hasn't done any good. Here's hoping the law change will, but I bet the dealers will remain stubborn and keep prices up and just bump everything else in the learner bracket up so the 20 year old 250's are still an option.

skidMark

17th June 2008, 20:21

none of the bigger bikes on the list scream cool to me. i would still prefer a zxr or cbr

I had an FXR for ages, that was pretty comfy.

NONONO, not comfy, it has to be "cool" **eyeroll**

skidMark

17th June 2008, 20:22

Sooo

when is this actually coming into effect?

2fst4u

18th June 2008, 16:47

NONONO, not comfy, it has to be "cool" **eyeroll**

now you've got it! :2thumbsup

CB ARGH

20th June 2008, 12:30

Sooo

when is this actually coming into effect?

There is no set date that I know of. From what I have heard it is "some time in the near future".

Ixion

20th June 2008, 17:04

There is a process that must be gone through first. Whether that will ahppen before the election (when all bets are off) is debateable

King_Rider

5th July 2008, 21:53

Couldn't find anything on the site about the 2-stroke thing, but why would they get rid of 'em if they are under the power to weight ratio?

Aprilia RSV250 and a Suzuki RGV250 are both way over the limit. Also the Honda CBR250 and the old Ninja ZX250R will be banned under the new law as again well over the power/weight limit. The two strokes that are under the limit will not be banned (but which ones are those?)

PirateJafa

5th July 2008, 22:16

King_Rider

5th July 2008, 22:36

All 250cc bikes will automatically be legal to ride, except for a few named two-strokes.

That is not correct, many of the current 250's will be over the 150 kilowatt/tonne limit. I have done the calculations for many of the favourites and they are over the limit, its not just a couple of two strokes mate!

Ragingrob

5th July 2008, 22:40

That is not correct, many of the current 250's will be over the 150 kilowatt/tonne limit. I have done the calculations for many of the favourites and they are over the limit, its not just a couple of two strokes mate!

Make sure you add the 90kg weight for the rider :niceone:, I think you'll find CBRs and ZXRs and all are completely fine.

King_Rider

5th July 2008, 22:45

Make sure you add the 90kg weight for the rider :niceone:, I think you'll find CBRs and ZXRs and all are completely fine.

Are you sure that the riders weight is included? If that is true then all my calculations would be incorrect. I need to read the legislation in detail and find out the exact rules as I was assuming the riders weight was not included.

Ragingrob

5th July 2008, 22:48

Are you sure that the riders weight is included? If that is true then all my calculations would be incorrect. I need to read the legislation in detail and find out the exact rules as I was assuming the riders weight was not included.

Yeah well it's been discussed a lot within these 29 pages and I think that is the general consensus. And Piratejafa is correct that all 250s are absolutely fine bar a few 2 smokers.

King_Rider

5th July 2008, 22:58

It doesnt affect me as I got full class 6 but I was working it out for a mate who is interested in getting into riding. I hope the general consensus is right.

MaxB

5th July 2008, 23:00

That is not correct, many of the current 250's will be over the 150 kilowatt/tonne limit. I have done the calculations for many of the favourites and they are over the limit, its not just a couple of two strokes mate!

BUT most countries that the govt. steal their transport ideas from have a learner bike list. Generally the rule goes something like "Ride what is on our list OR if not it must be 150kW/tonne."

Basically it does not matter how many bikes will be over the power limit. Bike makers will start lying about power outputs, measuring them in strange new ways and generally making a joke of any restrictions. Just like they do everywhere else. In Italy in the 80s they checked ther 12.5hp learner 125s and found all of them over and some making over 20hp.

King_Rider

5th July 2008, 23:03

BUT most countries that the govt. steal their transport ideas from have a learner bike list. Generally the rule goes something like "Ride what is on our list OR if not it must be 150kW/tonne."

Basically it does not matter how many bikes will be over the power limit. Bike makers will start lying about power outputs, measuring them in strange new ways and generally making a joke of any restrictions. Just like they do everywhere else. In Italy in the 80s they checked ther 12.5hp learner 125s and found all of them over and some making over 20hp.

Yeah true dat. One solution we were sizing up for him was just get some heavy accessories added to bring that ratio down! Dont know if you could get away with that one though. Maybe it would work for bikes that were only just over the limit.

eratic

5th July 2008, 23:37

Haha its pretty stupid that you arent allowed 2strokes but you are allowed RVF400s... that seems pretty dumb lol

Mikkel

7th July 2008, 10:59

Aprilia RSV250 and a Suzuki RGV250 are both way over the limit. Also the Honda CBR250 and the old Ninja ZX250R will be banned under the new law as again well over the power/weight limit. The two strokes that are under the limit will not be banned (but which ones are those?)

The 4-strokes will be fine.

Haha its pretty stupid that you arent allowed 2strokes but you are allowed RVF400s... that seems pretty dumb lol

Not so, the RVF400 only puts out 53 hps at the crank stock (was 59 hps earlier - but again emissions requirements push the numbers down). Compared to 45 hps for a ZXR250 and a CBR250RR there's not a huge difference. (There is a difference - I'll bet that the RVF400 will have a much beefier midrange and less peaky power delivery, but that is not reflected by these numbers).

Compare that to some of the unrestricted 2-strokes 250s which can put out 60-70 hps... Add to that the power delivery is abrupt, less prefictable and very peaky and you have something which is not learner friendly at all.

The 4-strokes are good learners bikes - they hold no nasty surprises. You can discuss whether they are too fast for your average 15-18 year old learner's self-discipline - but that is another discussion.

nudedaytona

7th July 2008, 11:34

But why regulate to ban the two-smokers now? They are all out of production, and eventually the manufacturers are going to stop making the parts for them. Then they will unfortunately die, apart from the hard core who might get the parts custom made for them. But how many people will that realistically be?

The only in production two-strokes are the race ones like the honda, maybe you could ban them from being converted to road going use, but how many people would do that.

And, with the improvements in engine and frame technology, modern 600cc sports bikes are now more powerful, easier to maintain, and probably just as easy if not easier to ride than an old two-stroke, the last of which was the 2004 Aprilia RS250. So there is already an incentive for learner and restricted riders riding 250cc two-smokes to get their full licence and upgrade to a 600 or a thou if you're bold.

So, while maybe it might be a good idea to let learners and restricted riders ride some old low-powered 600, I don't think they should ban the two-strokes. Instead, they should introduce time limits on your learners and restricted so you have more of an incentive to get your full, and make training compulsory or at least provide a discount or credit for it.

WelshWizard

7th July 2008, 19:15

With peyrol price going up all the time , the 250's will end up holding there price for cheap running costs:Punk::shit::shifty:

Rollestonchick

7th July 2008, 19:25

:eek5::woohoo: I got in just in time. Now have my full licence, after 6 months on restricted. Dont tell my son that he can get a bigger bike than his FZR 250cc lol, we just been thru that arguement, he :love: with a GSXR 400cc. Tho will i be able to sell my 250cc for as much as i wanted?
Thank god for the increase on speed limit. I found that i was more of a hinderance on the road when i was on my learners doing the legal 70kms. And you would find most car drivers wouldnt be aware, that motorbike learners were speed limited. The cops never bothered me when i was doing 100kms on the open road, because i was going with the flow

Big Zappa

7th July 2008, 21:28

The 4-strokes will be fine.

How do you figure?

Looking at my calculations (29(at 40hp)kw/154 vs 150kw/1000) I get .18 vs .15, which looks like it would put it over...

and it's not on the Australian list either (OR IS IT?! looking at the catchall at the top of the page...)

Pity, cause it's one of the bikes I'm eyeing up :/

Gubb

7th July 2008, 21:36

All the 250 4 Strokes are in, the list adds bikes over the 250 limit if they fit in with the power to weight ratio.

The only ones excluded are some of the high-powered 2 Smokers.

It's all in the proceeding pages, have a read of it.

Big Zappa

7th July 2008, 21:49

Ok cool :sunny:

Mikkel

7th July 2008, 23:54

How do you figure?

Looking at my calculations (29(at 40hp)kw/154 vs 150kw/1000) I get .18 vs .15, which looks like it would put it over...

and it's not on the Australian list either (OR IS IT?! looking at the catchall at the top of the page...)

Pity, cause it's one of the bikes I'm eyeing up :/

I figure that out by using 1) the right numbers and 2) the right assumptions:

1 kW = 1.431 hps -> 45 hps = 34 kW (33.56 kW...)
Let's assume a weight of 150 kgs (including fluids this weight is a significantly low estimate) and then add 90 kgs for the rider.

Power to weight ratio: 34 kW/240 kgs = 142 kW/ton - and that is being very conservative.

Dave-

8th July 2008, 00:14

90kg rider?

I'm 50kg, and my bike is aparently 39hp = 29.0822 so we'll say 29/200 = 145

EDIT: nevermind :)

Speedracer

8th July 2008, 18:20

Government announces (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0803/S00490.htm)new rules for motorcycles

- Improve the visibility of motorcycle and moped riders by introducing a requirement for all motorcycle and moped riders to have daytime running lights or their headlights on at all times when riding on the road

What about pedestrians, bicycles, cars? No they can be seen fine during the day without lights.
What a crock of government imposed beurocratic motorcyclist hating bullshit. Even if we all roll ourselves in reflective red tape we will get ignored by other motorists.

Speedracer

8th July 2008, 18:24

1234567890

Mikkel

8th July 2008, 18:29

What about pedestrians, bicycles, cars? No they can be seen fine during the day without lights.
What a crock of government imposed beurocratic motorcyclist hating bullshit. Even if we all roll ourselves in reflective red tape we will get ignored by other motorists.

Just be glad that they haven't put IQ requirements in place yet... :yawn:

skidMark

8th July 2008, 18:30

skidMark

8th July 2008, 18:31

What about pedestrians, bicycles, cars? No they can be seen fine during the day without lights.
What a crock of government imposed beurocratic motorcyclist hating bullshit. Even if we all roll ourselves in reflective red tape we will get ignored by other motorists.

Ladies and gentlemen, i give you the future of New Zealand.

CHOPPA

8th July 2008, 20:29

It would be sweet if there was some sorta evaluation process you could go through where if you have your full car licence and you can demostrate advanced riding skills you could get your full bike right away.... It was so frustrating the fact that i could quite happily race a 1000 safely but i had to pass a basic handling coarse and my old lady who hadnt riden for 30 years was allowed to jump on the old buys hayabusa!

Big Zappa

8th July 2008, 23:00

I figure that out by using 1) the right numbers and 2) the right assumptions:

1 kW = 1.431 hps -> 45 hps = 34 kW (33.56 kW...)
Let's assume a weight of 150 kgs (including fluids this weight is a significantly low estimate) and then add 90 kgs for the rider.

Power to weight ratio: 34 kW/240 kgs = 142 kW/ton - and that is being very conservative.

I see, rider's weight part of it etc

Cool, no point in laying off the beers and the burgers! :drinkup:

Mikkel

8th July 2008, 23:29

I see, rider's weight part of it etc

Cool, no point in laying off the beers and the burgers! :drinkup:

Plenty of reason to loose weight. It would be inconceivable to rectify legislation based upon the body weight of the individual (imagine the hassle of all police cars having to be fitted with weights in order to weigh 6L and 6R roadusers). As such they will assume a certain body weight for an average rider - and so far it has been indicated that this figure is going to be 90 kgs.

As usual - if you want a performance upgrade that will beat carbon fibre hands down, STOP FUCKING EATING! ;) (hey, it might even save you money.)

sefer

9th July 2008, 00:14

90kg! Exactly when did everyone in NZ gain an average height of 6'3? (and even at that height you'd be pushing at overweight!).

Mikkel

9th July 2008, 00:23

90kg! Exactly when did everyone in NZ gain an average height of 6'3? (and even at that height you'd be pushing at overweight!).

Don't you fucking oppress me with your damn lies about BMI and shit! :2guns:

But consider adding gear into the equation and a backpack...

musicman

12th July 2008, 21:38

90kg! Exactly when did everyone in NZ gain an average height of 6'3? (and even at that height you'd be pushing at overweight!).

One could be 175cm, 90kgs, and only have 15% bodyfat. I would hardly call that overweight. Of course, one doesn't get that way by eating pies!

swbarnett

12th July 2008, 22:13

One could be 175cm, 90kgs, and only have 15% bodyfat. I would hardly call that overweight. Of course, one doesn't get that way by eating pies!
Or indeed in your 40s with a bit of middle-aged spread going on at 172cm.

rachprice

12th July 2008, 22:22

Anyway isn't some ridiculous proportion of Nzers overweight or obese, like a 1/3?
So saying an average weight of 90kg is probably accurate.
My flatmate is 84kg and around 178cm. He is not fat at all but ridiculously full of muscles so there is always the people full of muscle to take into account as well at the overweight!

musicman

12th July 2008, 22:41

Anyway isn't some ridiculous proportion of Nzers overweight or obese, like a 1/3?

When I was over in Australia in February this year I was told that 49% of Australians are overweight, so I would think NZ's 1/3 isn't such a ridiculous proportion... and can you imagine the proportion in America?

swbarnett

12th July 2008, 22:42

He is not fat at all but ridiculously full of muscles
Doesn't all that muscle add to the overall power of the bike/rider combination? :dodge:

rachprice

12th July 2008, 22:55

When I was over in Australia in February this year I was told that 49% of Australians are overweight, so I would think NZ's 1/3 isn't such a ridiculous proportion... and can you imagine the proportion in America?

Oh yeah i know but NZ is up there with oz and the US i dont really want to quote figures cos i dont know them exactly
i know a lot of our chidren are and maori/PI even more overweight.

Doesn't all that muscle add to the overall power of the bike/rider combination? :dodge:

possibly
just saying muscle has a higher density than fat and therefore weighs more. So just saying if you have lots of muscles you weigh lots....so 90kg as an average would be appropriate
But I know they will always take the upper limit of everything to try and include the highest proportion of the population

tate35

12th July 2008, 23:11

regardless of height and weights,im hoping ill be able to move up to say...
an gs500e [f] or similar whilst still on my learners:banana:

tate35

12th July 2008, 23:13

does anyone know if the kawasaki er6n and er6f are on the LAM list?

musicman

12th July 2008, 23:26

regardless of height and weights,im hoping ill be able to move up to say...
an gs500e [f] or similar whilst still on my learners:banana:

The GS500F looks cool, but is Suzuki NZ selling it?

Irontusk

24th July 2008, 23:11

tychver

27th July 2008, 13:36

I'm just starting learning. I have a 1985 CB250RS single. 26hp (at least it was when they were released, but I've read that the later years got 1hp more) and 125kg dry. 0-100 in about 7 seconds and top speed of about 150.

I'm 173cm and not exactly massive at 77kg and 12.5% bodyfat. I'm into weight training though. And can squat the dry weight of my bike.

I still can't imagine swinging my leg over a 200kg 650 cruiser right up on the 150kw limit though. But I'll admit that my RS does feel like a motorised mountain bike even to me...

Big Zappa

27th July 2008, 14:09

I havn't read through the whole thread (I'm supposed to be studying my road code.. but I think I'm done? Who'd know..) but this has me really worried, I wish I had known earlier because I'm in the middle of buying a Suzuki VL250.. if this law comes in then the value of it will plummet. I'm happy with the bike for the learning process, but as the thread title suggests, I pay top dollar for it now and get nothing for it when I move on.. at the same time I don't want to wait to get a bike, I want to be ready to ride all summer!

The power/weight ratio rule is either unfair (whether it includes an average rider weight or not) or inconvenient to enforce..

On second thoughts, I woke up this morning and realised the opposite is more likely, 250s will stay where they are, and 250+s will go up to where they should be. What do other people think will happen?..

In a thread in the 250 Club forum somebody was saying that if they adopt the Aussie list, most of the bikes on that list are either vintage or cruiser <650 bikes or dirt bikes, and that 250s will still hold their value because they are sensible option for people to learn to ride on.

I'm not fussed with my bike, I got it 2nd hand for an affordable price and hopefully it lasts me till I get my full.

EDIT: prices are always stubborn, and not always correspond to demand. I mean they do but not as much as people think. Think of it this way - you only need one buyer and if you're not in a hurry you could still probably get the price you want, provided it's a fair price etc.

Kwakajack

27th August 2008, 17:38

Last time I checked, RD 400s, like the 250 and 350 were strokers and pretty darn fast, ridden well, so a VERY odd option really. What about stroker motards then?

Tony

3rd September 2008, 10:02

Sorry if this is a dumb question or has already been answered but what does this mean exactly? Does it mean that after 3 years on your L's you go to your restricted automatically? Or does it mean that if you don't get your restricted after 3 years you lose your learners??

Sorry, a little confused here :confused:

I asked the LTSA yesterday and they said that you could ride on a learners for 10 years. Unless....you already have a car license in which case it expires at the same time as your drivers license (in my case I got a letter telling me I needed to appy for a new license one month after I got my learners license).

See the thread on this here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=81101

imne1

3rd September 2008, 19:08

Oh crap !!!!!!! I literally only just (finally) got my learners, haven't even bought a bike yet ( and the POS scooter died). It would be good to expand my shopping options but at nearly 30 the idea of having to wait a year to get restricted and so on is thouroughly unappealing (but yay for no 70 limit).
Surely the LTSA would only give advice on current legislation and not pending maybe new law. Do they even know about the looming changes??

ZK-Awesome

8th September 2008, 15:37

Do we know an approximate time that the new laws will come in?

s_devo

11th September 2008, 13:56

I've just had a look at the land transport website and there's no mention of a timeframe for implementation. One of the 3 things that needed to happen was an ammendment to the Land Transport Act which has passed it's 3rd reading and came into effect on 1 August.

GrayWolf

25th September 2008, 15:51

I find some of the bikes included in the 'learners' list quite astounding.

I know that bike technology or evolution has progressed, hower the human motorcycle learner has not evolved at the same rate. Some of the bikes listed RD400 XJ650 were in their day 'rocket ships'. Its easy to sit back and laugh on the current bikes, over performance etc however; I can remember the 250 learner licence being reduced to 125 in the UK in the early 80's due to the 'over powerful' 250's ( Suzuki X7 and Yamaha RD250LC were the final straw). Yamaha had a 90mph (RD125LC) in the wings, so they put on a 12bhp power limit. It isnt about the bikes ability, the ability of a learner rider hasnt changed and to 'let loose' a novice on some of the listed motorcycles is I feel a liitle daunting. In reality the current crop of 250's are faster than we ever had and if you view the performance figures, these 250's are a fast on top speed or faster even, than the jap and brit bikes of 30 yesrs ago. I am not anti learner, hell I still remember the joy and smell of thrashing errrrr I mean riding an RD250. There in I fear lies the issue, the average young learner/rider will open up the bike in more situations than the older more experienced rider. They as learners on some of those bike EG: XJ's will be dealing with shaft reaction as well as the other skills, and as a past owner of an XJ They are quite rapid and will have a lot more overall power than a 250.
Please also remember in the UK you cannot ride a motorcycle or drive a car
untill 17yrs old. You can only ride a moped at 16, untill then its a pushbike.

sleemanj

12th March 2009, 15:12

So we are nearly a year on from the initial announcement of a LAM by my reckoning, has anybody heard if this is still on the cards with the new government?

McDuck

12th March 2009, 16:36

So we are nearly a year on from the initial announcement of a LAM by my reckoning, has anybody heard if this is still on the cards with the new government?

Not a peep. I hope they get on with it, i want to ride my own bike in my full test...

firefighter

12th March 2009, 16:41

hmmmm, I reackon it will happen around 2259

mark247

12th March 2009, 17:04

Not a peep. I hope they get on with it, i want to ride my own bike in my full test...

go to shop, rent 250 bike, done.

McDuck

12th March 2009, 17:09

go to shop, rent 250 bike, done.

The thing is i would need time to get to know it...

quickbuck

12th March 2009, 21:01

The thing is i would need time to get to know it...

Nope. You should be able to work out a bike within the first 100 metres.
Seriously....

I guess that I may have been riding a lot longer than many.
I forget that......

Anyhow, the only place I hear about the proposed law change is from Dealers at the moment.
Might do some digging in other avenues though. Will be interested to find out.
Wonder if my 50 will comply...??? It shouldn't ;)

mark247

12th March 2009, 21:31

The thing is i would need time to get to know it...

If you cant ride a 250 to the level you have to ride to pass your full licence in the first 10 minutes of sitting on the bike ( which i very much doubt ) you are destined to fail. Sorry bro. :yawn:

McDuck

12th March 2009, 21:35

Nope. You should be able to work out a bike within the first 100 metres.
Seriously....

I guess that I may have been riding a lot longer than many.
I forget that......

Anyhow, the only place I hear about the proposed law change is from Dealers at the moment.
Might do some digging in other avenues though. Will be interested to find out.
Wonder if my 50 will comply...??? It shouldn't ;)

I am also well outside the design capibilitys of most 250s. I can still do it all but i need a few hours to nut out slow turning etc

mark247

12th March 2009, 21:40

I am also well outside the design capibilitys of most 250s. I can still do it all but i need a few hours to nut out slow turning etc

Bro come on. I have ridden my vfr400 ( an honorary 250 at that ) for the last 18 months or so, and I just jumped on a fxr150 the other day which had 90,000km on it and road half a k down the road to the testing station and did the test in flying colours. You have got to be kidding.

McDuck

12th March 2009, 21:46

If you cant ride a 250 to the level you have to ride to pass your full licence in the first 10 minutes of sitting on the bike ( which i very much doubt ) you are destined to fail. Sorry bro. :yawn:

We must not have met. Dew to the fact i am tall and heavely built, and get my height from a long torso, it changes the bikes center of gravety etc a lot more going between the 400 and what ever the shop loaner was.

BTW i did my restricted test on a dr225 and the tester said i will need to do the full test on a bike i know.

mark247

12th March 2009, 21:54

We must not have met. Dew to the fact i am tall and heavely built, and get my height from a long torso, it changes the bikes center of gravety etc a lot more going between the 400 and what ever the shop loaner was.

BTW i did my restricted test on a dr225 and the tester said i will need to do the full test on a bike i know.

We met once in tga when you came to the bar one night, im probably not as heavy as you, but im 6 foot 3 and i did fine on a 150 lol

McDuck

12th March 2009, 21:56

We met once in tga when you came to the bar one night, im probably not as heavy as you, but im 6 foot 3 and i did fine on a 150 lol

Yea i remember you now, Lets just say i am a bit more top heavy now, changes things a tad

sleemanj

13th March 2009, 13:35

I've emailed the Minister of Transport (Steven Joyce) for a statement on the progress (or if it's going to progress at all). I'll post his reply when he does.

Big Zappa

13th March 2009, 16:54

I've emailed the Minister of Transport (Steven Joyce) for a statement on the progress (or if it's going to progress at all). I'll post his reply when he does.

good man, was thinking of doing the same thing

MarkH

15th March 2009, 13:44

hmmmm, I reackon it will happen around 2259

Sooo cynical! :no:

I predict that this new legislation will go through well before 2050!

MarkH

15th March 2009, 13:50

Yea i remember you now, Lets just say i am a bit more top heavy now, changes things a tad

Moobs growing larger?

Bonez

15th March 2009, 13:55

250s are still flying out dealers doors.
And the children wait.............................................. ...

MidnightMike

15th March 2009, 14:03

im probably not as heavy as you

:laugh: probably?

mark247

15th March 2009, 14:12

:laugh: probably?

Hey I'm on a diet =P

Hairy Marshmallow

22nd March 2009, 17:50

A bit slow finding this thread, but...

RVF400? Arent they kinda zoom zoom?

And wondering if Honda Bros includes 650....:shifty:

FJRider

22nd March 2009, 18:18

Sooo cynical! :no:

I predict that this new legislation will go through well before 2050!

Similar legislation is being introduced in Aussie this year... in a few months apparently... NZ will follow suit I would say pretty quickly...

nallac

22nd March 2009, 18:22

some states in Oz already have this.

Hairy Marshmallow

23rd March 2009, 16:52

Just to have a wee bit of a stir...:jerry:

150kw/ ton, sweet. Can get some good bikes within this range...

Now, restricting cages. 150kw/ ton (just to make it fair to all parties) will make sod all difference too. Mad wee Jimmy will still be able to buy a WRX and go kill all his mates in it:doh:

Biker: Restrict them to Daihatsu Miras then!

Pffft yeah right. Coz then the cry will become: restrict all 6L to GN250's!

Basically, I think the whole licencing system is fucked, coz nobody has to prove they can actually ride/drive to get Class 1 and 6.