Power to weight restriction

[MAD-MUFFIN]

Be glad your not in the USA. I live in Maine and they passed some of the stupidest laws in the last couple years, I HAVE to wear a seatbelt in my car, (fully enclosed by steel), but, I don't have to wear a helmet on my motorcycle (after the probation period). They even passed a "common sense" law...... if you have little children, you can get a ticket for smoking with them in the car.

[mynameis]

Be glad your not in the USA. I live in Maine and they passed some of the stupidest laws in the last couple years, I HAVE to wear a seatbelt in my car, (fully enclosed by steel), but, I don't have to wear a helmet on my motorcycle (after the probation period). They even passed a "common sense" law...... if you have little children, you can get a ticket for smoking with them in the car.

Don't you have seatbelts on bikes in US?

[MSTRS]

Don't you have seatbelts on bikes in US?

Probably don't even have reversing beepers :Offtopic:

[firefighter]

if you have little children, you can get a ticket for smoking with them in the car.

Good.

10 chars

[mynameis]

Probably don't even have reversing beepers :Offtopic:

Beep beep beep..or CD players and Cup Holders.

[Big Zappa]

Nope, just the usual "Your email has been placed before the Minister for his consideration and you may expect a reply in due course."

these things usually take about 4 weeks or more.

And if he can't get his flunkeys to write a reply for him, write to him again :)

[jono035]

According to a friend of mine who is a politically active kind of guy, the best way to actually have them read it is to send it as a letter. Good old paper+ink+envelope style. Apparently e-mail is pointless because they just get too much of it, too easy for people to send I guess.

Anyone else have any idea if this is still happening under the current goverment etc.?

[Big Zappa]

According to a friend of mine who is a politically active kind of guy, the best way to actually have them read it is to send it as a letter. Good old paper+ink+envelope style. Apparently e-mail is pointless because they just get too much of it, too easy for people to send I guess.

Anyone else have any idea if this is still happening under the current goverment etc.?

actually a die hard cast iron way to get a reply would be to write (or email) and request it under the Official Information Act.... :whistle:

[motorcyclesonline.net]

I rang Ministry of Transport & spoke to a Mr Woodside who informed me that all proposals put forward by the previous Labour Government have been put on the "Back Burner" .
There is no agenda for discussion this year and if it debated next year [2010] will not become law until 2011

Bill
www.motorcyclesonline.net

We have a good selection of 250's

[CookMySock]

Lams is deadYes, but they hand out exemptions to ride all manner of bikes much larger than 250cc, so whether it is dead or not is immaterial.

Steve

[quickbuck]

They may very well hand out exemptions Steve, but for joe average the easiest way is to buy a 250.
The unfortunate part of the whole thing is there are some 250's that clearly are not suitable for the learner rider.... and there are many 400's and even some 650's that are totally suitable.

[CookMySock]

If the bike in question is on the LAMS list, just fill out the form, pay yer 22 bucks, and they will give it to you. It's not difficult whatsoever, even for average people.

Completely agree re suitability. It's a good thing that riders now have a lot more choice. My 650 was completely unsuitable for my learner license. The damn thing was way too powerful and difficult to steer for a newbie. 80hp is not a learner bike.

Steve

[quickbuck]

If the bike in question is on the LAMS list, just fill out the form, pay yer 22 bucks, and they will give it to you. It's not difficult whatsoever, even for average people.

Completely agree re suitability. It's a good thing that riders now have a lot more choice. My 650 was completely unsuitable for my learner license. The damn thing was way too powerful and difficult to steer for a newbie. 80hp is not a learner bike.

Steve

Is it as easy as that?
Not that I have to do it, but many people ask me if you can.

Thanks for that.

[bigfella]

just curious as there would be others like me, if this new law comes in does it mean other riders on their restricted goin for full, which i will be next year in february, would we have to get a less powerful bike or what do we all think will happen in those situations

[Shadows]

just curious as there would be others like me, if this new law comes in does it mean other riders on their restricted goin for full, which i will be next year in february, would we have to get a less powerful bike or what do we all think will happen in those situations

Magna 250? You'll be sweet.

[MDR2]

I rang Ministry of Transport & spoke to a Mr Woodside who informed me that all proposals put forward by the previous Labour Government have been put on the "Back Burner" .
There is no agenda for discussion this year and if it debated next year [2010] will not become law until 2011

Bill
www.motorcyclesonline.net

We have a good selection of 250's

Indeed, a very good selection of red Hornets.....

cheekyness aside, I was spying some of your auctions on trademe, your prices seemed pretty reasonable for a dealer. and from memory shiiping costs looked reasonable too.

[tigertim20]

just curious as there would be others like me, if this new law comes in does it mean other riders on their restricted goin for full, which i will be next year in february, would we have to get a less powerful bike or what do we all think will happen in those situations

You mean what would happen to a person on their learners NOW with a bike that exceeds the power to weight limit?
I imagine that the law would be for all licences issued from the date the act was passed onwards, and would allow a grace period for those who obtained their licences earlier to get onto their full.
Im sure somebody will quickly correct me if I am wrong

[sleemanj]

Finally I have an official reply.

The main statement from the letter is: "Motorcycle safety is likely to be a key area of concern under [the Road Safety to 2020 strategy document]"

The minister says that this "Strategy" is being developed and will be released for comment later this year.

He hopes to have this strategy in place next year -- now of course that doesn't mean a LAM will be in place next year, just the general idea to look into the possibility of having a LAM as part of a strategy at some point before 2020 :-)

Reading between the lines, the LAM was a Labour thing, and with the change of Government they have naturally gone back to square one which is looking at the issues and thinking about what they could think about doing.

[Jaffadutch]

Hello all, ive not been on for a while but i passed my learners license and have been flying around on a 250cc for a few months now....love motorbikes.
Cant belive i waited until i was 36 to go for a bike.

Anyway, i have been told by various different people about this LAM report,
Id like to get a bigger bike due to im quite a big guy..6'6" and 125kg and find the 250cc to small and too light.
I looked at the lam and found the S40 is on the list.....

The question is how do i go about asking for exemption? Do they still allow exemption? What info do i send if i can still try?

thanks Glen

[Holy Roller]

Hi Glen
You will need to go to a driver licencing agent
Fill in the DL4 exemption form and pay a non refundable fee of $22.20
Give as much info about size and age and any prior riding experience.
Get a photo of yourself on a small bike then on the S40 to show the comparison.
each case is dealt on its own merits. you will be replied to with in 20 days.
Hope this helps.

The LAM bill is going before parliment on the 20th of this month.

[CookMySock]

The LAM bill is going before parliment on the 20th of this month.Shit, is it? This will be interesting then. I thought that was permanently on the back burner.

Steve

[jono035]

As in actually voting on it as in if no-one has any objections it becomes law in some (relatively short) period of time?

And that bill had the removal of the 70km/hr restriction as a recommendation too didn't it?

Edit - yes it does include a recommendation about the removal of the 70km/hr learner speed limit and sonofabitch one of the recommendations is changing the restricted license time for over-25s from 6 months to 12 months... anyone know if the advanced rider skills course will still only knock 3 months off the license or will scale up to 6 months? It goes 6 months to 3 months for over-25s and 18 months to 12 months for under-25s currently...

Either way, it'll basically kick in days before I can get my full under the old rules no doubt...

[BiK3RChiK]

Errr....Re: The Lam Bill... surely there'll be readings and amendments to come? or are 'they' going to do a sneaky and slip it through hoping no-one will notice, cause as I read some of those proposed amendments, they need changing! How do we find out about this one?

[Breed777]

wouldnt want to have paid $6000 for a 15 year old 250 now

I dunno, some poeple really like the style of the older 250 CBR FZR GSXR bikes...

[Breed777]

Done a bit of calc on this one and I reckon all but the most aggresive 250s will be fine. If Ixion is correct (and he usually is) I reckon you can get up to 46 hp for a 140kg bike so that should suit ZXR and CBR 250 owners. The RG150 with it's 127kg would have an allowance of 43.5 hp.

RGV250, RS250, NSR250 and TZR250 owners will be proper facked though.

No too up on my bike knowledge.... what does this mean for a GSXR250 rider on a L plate (Restricted by end of 2009)?

[MSTRS]

No too up on my bike knowledge.... what does this mean for a GSXR250 rider on a L plate (Restricted by end of 2009)?

You will be fine. It will only be the high performance 250 strokes that are affected. Do not expect to be legal on anything much larger that has an R (for Race, that is) in the model designation however.

[Ixion]

As in actually voting on it as in if no-one has any objections it becomes law in some (relatively short) period of time?

And that bill had the removal of the 70km/hr restriction as a recommendation too didn't it?

Edit - yes it does include a recommendation about the removal of the 70km/hr learner speed limit and sonofabitch one of the recommendations is changing the restricted license time for over-25s from 6 months to 12 months... anyone know if the advanced rider skills course will still only knock 3 months off the license or will scale up to 6 months? It goes 6 months to 3 months for over-25s and 18 months to 12 months for under-25s currently...

Either way, it'll basically kick in days before I can get my full under the old rules no doubt...

Not according to the Parliamentary Order Paper. (which is the 'agenda' for parliament). Land Transport Amendment Bill (No 4) is No 3 for tomorrow, but that does not cover these matters, it is concerned with driving under the influence of drugs and changes to vehicle registration procedures. Moreover, the 70kph and 250cc limits are contained in a Rule, not an Act or Regulation. Changes to a Rule do not need to go before parliament, they can be signed off by the Minister - usually, after appropriate public consultation. Which hasn't happened yet. Don't hold your breath.

[Breed777]

No. At present you can stay on L for your lifetime.

I think my learners has an expiry date on it though......

[Ixion]

I think my learners has an expiry date on it though......

The licence, like all licences has a 10 year expiry. But at the end of the ten years you can renew it (also, like any licence) by paying (yet more!) money, and passing an eyetest. And repeat indefinitely.

[Jenral]

Over 25s now have to spend 12 months not 6 on restricted.

Sounds all good except for this bit.

[Jaffadutch]

Hi, does anyone have an update has to how this went on?
Didnt it go before the MP's?

[Ragingrob]

The licence, like all licences has a 10 year expiry. But at the end of the ten years you can renew it (also, like any licence) by paying (yet more!) money, and passing an eyetest. And repeat indefinitely.

Yo Ixion, I recently got my full, and the expiry date on my new license is 2014... What gives?! That's only 5 years :argh:

[MSTRS]

Yo Ixion, I recently got my full, and the expiry date on my new license is 2014... What gives?! That's only 5 years :argh:

Existing expiiry for a Class 1 licence?

[Ixion]

Yo Ixion, I recently got my full, and the expiry date on my new license is 2014... What gives?! That's only 5 years :argh:

Just so. You have only ONE licence. It's expiry date is determined by the date you first got it. So, about five years ago you got a class 1L or 6L. Other classes just get added to the existing licence which retains its original date. There is no logic in this, because the justification for the expiry date (don't get me started on the blatant fraud of the "lifetime license") was to allow photo and details to be updated. Which they are each time you get a new class. So the expiry date ought to be up[dated also. But they don't. And mainly, only bikers are much affected.

[MarkH]

Yo Ixion, I recently got my full, and the expiry date on my new license is 2014... What gives?! That's only 5 years :argh:

Will you be 25 years old when it expires? Because that is how the NZ licenses work! You will need to renew your license at 25, 35, 45, etc years old. If a 23 year old gets a drivers license for the first time he/she will be amazed to discover that within 2 years it needs to be renewed - but that's how it is done here in NZ!

Initial drivers licenses in NZ are valid for 1 to 10 years NOT 10 years - 1 to 10 years means from when it is issued to your next birthday that has your age ending in a 5. I am surprised that so many here did not know this.

[Bend-it]

but the important question here is... has the law changed for learners?

[Ragingrob]

Just so. You have only ONE licence. It's expiry date is determined by the date you first got it. So, about five years ago you got a class 1L or 6L. Other classes just get added to the existing licence which retains its original date. There is no logic in this, because the justification for the expiry date (don't get me started on the blatant fraud of the "lifetime license") was to allow photo and details to be updated. Which they are each time you get a new class. So the expiry date ought to be up[dated also. But they don't. And mainly, only bikers are much affected.

Damn revenue collecting!


Will you be 25 years old when it expires? Because that is how the NZ licenses work! You will need to renew your license at 25, 35, 45, etc years old. If a 23 year old gets a drivers license for the first time he/she will be amazed to discover that within 2 years it needs to be renewed - but that's how it is done here in NZ!

Initial drivers licenses in NZ are valid for 1 to 10 years NOT 10 years - 1 to 10 years means from when it is issued to your next birthday that has your age ending in a 5. I am surprised that so many here did not know this.

Yep I will be. What a waste! It should cost less for your license if it's gonna last only a few years dammit.

Cheers for the insight!

[MarkH]

Damn revenue collecting!

Are you familiar with the saying 'He who owns the gold makes the rules'?

What this means in NZ is that the government is in charge of our tax money and they make up the rules. They changed the driver licensing from lifetime to 10 yearly and we end up paying - that shouldn't surprise anyone. Just like they charge us road tax when we buy petrol . . . then they dump some of that money in the consolidated fund to cover other stuff . . . then they approve a regional fuel tax to pay for roading . . . then a new tunnel is built and there is a toll imposed to help pay for it . . . how many times do we have to pay for the same thing? When the government comes up with another way to take our money who will be surprised?

Only two things are certain - death & taxes (and taxes and taxes and taxes and anything else the government calls it when they take our money).

[ZK-Awesome]

Does anyone know if the LAMs law went through or not?

[Ixion]

No. It did not. It is buried in the new Minister's file basket. It may reappear in 2010. Or, it may not.

[Irontusk]

Will you be 25 years old when it expires? Because that is how the NZ licenses work! You will need to renew your license at 25, 35, 45, etc years old. If a 23 year old gets a drivers license for the first time he/she will be amazed to discover that within 2 years it needs to be renewed - but that's how it is done here in NZ!

Initial drivers licenses in NZ are valid for 1 to 10 years NOT 10 years - 1 to 10 years means from when it is issued to your next birthday that has your age ending in a 5. I am surprised that so many here did not know this.

Wrong.

I'm sure just about everyone else can correct this too, but my licence expires in 2017, about 2 months before I turn 29.

Ixion is also partially wrong, and this part actually confuses me a little more.. I was a bit annoyed when I got my 6L (and 6R too) and the expiry was not renewed, however it DID renew when I got my full class 1 in 2007.. so wtf is with that? Only car licences are important? Is this just more of the government sticking it in bikers(registration)?

The best example of this I have seen is a guy on here who got his bike licence 2 days before his old licence expired.. and guess what, he had to pay to renew it and all that bullshit. There was a thread about his progress on here somewhere, the minister or whoever it was didn't seem to want to hear about it of course..

[p.dath]

...
The best example of this I have seen is a guy on here who got his bike licence 2 days before his old licence expired.. and guess what, he had to pay to renew it and all that bullshit. There was a thread about his progress on here somewhere, the minister or whoever it was didn't seem to want to hear about it of course..

I had a similar thing happen. I got my full bike licence about one month before my licence expired.
They didn't renew the licence, and I had to go back and full out *exactly* the same form I had filled out to apply for my full bike licence (did it one week later).

I rang the LTSA and complained and they said the law is very clear. You have to fill out a form to apply for a new class of licence, and fill out a form to renew your licence. The basis of my complaint was that it was the same form. However they rejected it, and said the same thing again.

I was a tad angry about it at the time. I also had to pay for submitting the same form again to renew my licence.

Very frustrating.

[Ixion]

Here's the actual law on licence expiry




Period of validity of driver licence

(1) A driver licence that is obtained or renewed under this rule may be issued for a period of 10 years except that,—
(a) If the person is at least 64 years of age but younger than 75 years of age at the date of the issue of the licence, the expiry date specified on the licence must be the date of the person's seventy-fifth birthday:
(b) If the person is at least 75 years of age but younger than 80 years of age at the date of the issue of the licence, the expiry date specified on the licence must be the date of the person's eightieth birthday:
(c) If the person is 80 years of age or over at the date of the issue of the licence, the expiry date specified on the licence must be the next birthday of the applicant that is a whole multiple of 2:
(d) If a renewed licence is issued under clause 67(5) with an expiry date that is more than 10 years after the date of the issue of the licence, the licence expires on the date specified on the licence.

(2) A driver licence that is replaced under this rule must be issued with an expiry date that is the same as the expiry date of the licence being replaced, except that if a replacement licence is issued under clause 74(4) with an expiry date that is more than 10 years after the date of the issue of the licence, the licence expires on the date specified on the licence.

(2A) Despite subclause (1), the Agency may extend the period of validity of a driver licence by not more than 1 year.

(3) The period of validity of a driver licence is not affected by the holder obtaining a driver licence or endorsement of any other class or type.



So, a licence is valid for 10 years. And adding classes doesn't change the expiry date of the licence. BUT --- when they introduced the current licence (don't get me started on "lifetime licences" grr ), there was a transitional clause . Cos the old licences were LIFETIME licences and had no expiry date. And they didn't want every licence in the country expiring at more or less the same time . So


Period of validity of licences issued under this Part

A driver licence issued under clause 113 must be issued with an expiry date that is—
(a) The anniversary of its date of issue in the year that the person reaches the youngest of 25, 35, 45, 55, or 65 years of age; or
(b) If the person is 64 years of age or over, the appropriate expiry date in accordance with paragraphs (a) to (c) of clause 60(1).


So, those who converted their old lifetime licence (swindling bastards! - the gubbermint I mean) their licences expire on each tenth anniversary of the n5th birthday after they got them. Those who never had a so-called "lifetime licence", theirs have a simple 10 year expiry date.

[MarkH]

So, those who converted their old lifetime licence (swindling bastards! - the gubbermint I mean) their licences expire on each tenth anniversary of the n5th birthday after they got them. Those who never had a so-called "lifetime licence", theirs have a simple 10 year expiry date.

Cool - thanks for the info, I am now better informed.

I do wonder though why it is that when you fork out good money to add a class to your license they can't reset the entire license to 10 years again (assuming that it wont take your license past your 75th birthday). Is it so that they can get more money off you sooner?

[jono035]

Cool - thanks for the info, I am now better informed.

I do wonder though why it is that when you fork out good money to add a class to your license they can't reset the entire license to 10 years again (assuming that it wont take your license past your 75th birthday). Is it so that they can get more money off you sooner?

Yeah, it'd be interesting to know the reasoning behind requiring the license to be renewed that doesn't apply to a new endorsement being added... Can't be to require an update to the photo or the style of license...

[MarkH]

My license expires in 2012 - I have Class 1, 2, 4 & 6. If I added Class 5 then why can't I volunteer to get a medical certificate, have my eyes tested and have a photo taken and renew early? When you get your new endorsement they take away your license and give you a temporary one, then they send you out a new license - if they are going to go that far why not just redo the lot and give you a new license for the next 10 years. This would be a sensible idea especially if you only had a year or less to go anyway.

I think they just consider that their rules are like eleventy times as important as common sense so there will be NO exceptions to the rules they have laid down!

[Richi]

My license expires in 2012 - I have Class 1, 2, 4 & 6. If I added Class 5 then why can't I volunteer to get a medical certificate, have my eyes tested and have a photo taken and renew early? When you get your new endorsement they take away your license and give you a temporary one, then they send you out a new license - if they are going to go that far why not just redo the lot and give you a new license for the next 10 years. This would be a sensible idea especially if you only had a year or less to go anyway.

I think they just consider that their rules are like eleventy times as important as common sense so there will be NO exceptions to the rules they have laid down!

Sensible? Government? CAN...NOT...COMPUTE...

[MarkH]

Sensible? Government? CAN...NOT...COMPUTE...

I guess that's why we have what we have rather than something that makes sense.

[s_devo]

...eleventy...
This may be a bit nerdy :Offtopic: but I wondered if Eleventy was an actual word so looked it up but it wasn't in the dictionary but there are some fascinating references to it:

I wondered if it was eleven times twenty, or eleven times seventy???

Well it turns out that eleventy means 110 (one hundred [and] ten) also known as "eleventy", a term made famous by linguist and author J. R. R. Tolkien and derived from the Old English hund endleofantig. (Bilbo Bagins was celebrating his eleventy first birthday).

In mathematics 110 is a sphenic number and a pronic number - whatever that means and 110 is the sum of three consecutive squares, 110 = 5^2 + 6^2 + 7^2. Far out! :2guns:

But wait there's more...

Eleventy is also the atomic number of darmstadtium. Darmstadtium formerly known as Ununnilium, is a chemical element with the symbol Ds and atomic number 110. This synthetic element is one of the so-called super-heavy atoms. It decays quickly: Heavier isotopes of darmstadtium have half-lives on the order of ten seconds.

Heavy man!

110 is also the age a person must attain in order to be considered a supercentenarian.

and, and, and the Honda XRM motorcycle with an 110cc engine.

So yeah, that is how thick and heavy the Government is. Any votes for a change yet? :confused:

[jono035]

Well it turns out that eleventy means 110 (one hundred [and] ten) also known as "eleventy", a term made famous by linguist and author J. R. R. Tolkien and derived from the Old English hund endleofantig. (Bilbo Bagins was celebrating his eleventy first birthday).

Yep, the first book of Lord of the Rings starts out with Bilbo celebrating turning eleventy one. Just went through and re-read from The Hobbit and on through the other day. Even though Peter Jackson did a pretty impressive job, there is still such an incredible amount of stuff that is cut out or changed in minor ways that I didn't even notice at first.

[Laava]

So is there any word on when the proposed capacity changes might take effect?

[CookMySock]

So is there any word on when the proposed capacity changes might take effect?Permanently shelved as I recall.

With the current uproar ala ACC, I can't see it being a happening thang.

Steve

[sleemanj]

Sounds like it might be back on the table...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3398471/Give-way-rules-set-to-change-Govt

The Government also intended to introduce a power-to-weight restriction for novice riders which would be consulted on through the select committee process.

[MSTRS]

Twas always waiting in the wings...just needed to screw the country over ACC and then get the housing, travel and CC rorts in place

[James Deuce]

I think the power to weight idea is fantastic particularly if they adopt the NSW LAM scheme or something like it. It's going through a select committee process and we now know that we can have an effect at that level.

http://kiwiridermagazine.blogspot.com/2010/03/jim-walsh-give-way-rule-change.html

[Bald Eagle]

It's going through a select committee process and we now know that we can have an effect at that level.
[/url]

didn't notice much of an effect last time :lol:

[James Deuce]

People actually got to participate which isn't normal for NZ politics or NZ motorcyclists. Be as cynical as you want, getting to present and actually presenting submissions is a huge step up from the usual toothless self-flagellation in front of parliament that encompasses a "protest" in NZ. That was just a start and if momentum is maintained there is a small chance that that decision making may become inclusive.

But only if you show you give enough of a shit to get involved.

[clint640]

If a system based on LAMS comes in (very good idea IMHO) the law is truly going to look like an ass: learners are allowed some bikes over 600cc because they are moderately powered sensible learner machines, but that very same bike is classed by the ACC as an overpowered rolling deathtrap devil machine worthy of extortionate extra charges to cover all the death, mayhem & carnage left in it's wake.

Cheers
Clint

[Mikkel]

Hopefully they will consider doing something similar for car drivers on the graduated licensing system too. But about time they got rid of the give-way insanity.


If a system based on LAMS comes in (very good idea IMHO) the law is truly going to look like an ass: learners are allowed some bikes over 600cc because they are moderately powered sensible learner machines, but that very same bike is classed by the ACC as an overpowered rolling deathtrap devil machine worthy of extortionate extra charges to cover all the death, mayhem & carnage left in it's wake.

Cheers
Clint

Good point there! :clap:

[KelvinAng]

If a system based on LAMS comes in (very good idea IMHO) the law is truly going to look like an ass: learners are allowed some bikes over 600cc because they are moderately powered sensible learner machines, but that very same bike is classed by the ACC as an overpowered rolling deathtrap devil machine worthy of extortionate extra charges to cover all the death, mayhem & carnage left in it's wake.

The Aussie LAMS does have a CC rating criteria as well and if NZ were to implement it and not make ACC look stupid they would modify the Aussie standard to suit their categorisation. My M50 is not Aussie learner-approved because it failed the CC rating, but is otherwise producing way below the maximum power per tonne rating!

[Ixion]

Aussie cc upper limit is 650cc . Problem is that falls into the "instant death" ACC group. And revising the LAMS upper limit to 599 to match ACC would exclude most of the over 250 machines - ie the whole thing would become pointless.

[KelvinAng]

Aussie cc upper limit is 650cc . Problem is that falls into the "instant death" ACC group. And revising the LAMS upper limit to 599 to match ACC would exclude most of the over 250 machines - ie the whole thing would become pointless.

Yep. But you know, they're politicians :mellow:

[clint640]

Pointless indeed but I bet thats what'll happen. Quite a lot of older bikes will still become learner legal with a 599cc limit, but bugger all new ones, ignoring exotica there's probably only about 4 bikes sold new that would become LAMS learner legal anyway, a 599cc limit would remove 2 of the more affordable ones, the Suzuki S40 cruiser & DR650 dual sport.

Clint

[Swoop]

Hopefully they will consider doing something similar for car drivers on the graduated licensing system too.
It appears like they are going to do just that!

[Gibbo89]

I didn't know that this was proposed in 2008, I assume it must be quite similar to what was suggested back then?

Bump, btw :corn:

[MSTRS]

The motorcycle specific stuff, at least, was announced by the last Labour govt as being on the agenda. They never got to it tho...

[racefactory]

For ages now I have heard people say that NZ will adopt a power to weight licensing system for motorcycles. I have a few questions.

When will it be implemented by?

For those already on the smaller quick bikes like CBR250RR ZXR250 FZR250 GSXR250 and NSR TZR RGV, will they be forced to get rid of their bikes? That would be really unfair if so.

[cbfb]

Will it take into account the fact that I'm a bit of a fat bastard so my bike will go slower?

[aprilia_RS250]

I doubt they'll even implement it. Most of the "fast" bikes are starting to get old or have been written off by riders with a twitchy right wrist. I assume most people starting out are buying low powered bikes like the hyo, ninja and hornets. It would be a bit pointless now I'd say.

[FJRider]

That is only one of the proposals being considered ... to my knowledge there is no specific date set yet.

Fair ... getting rid of those bikes would not be required .... just that they would not legally allowed to be ridden without the correct class of licence ...

[NighthawkNZ]

Fair ... getting rid of those bikes would not be required .... just that they would not legally allowed to be ridden without the correct class of licence ...

It would most likely be grandfathered over... meaning no new learner can ride legally on one those bikes... older learners or those on restricted would be allowed to keep what they have etc...


It would be easy enough to police, if the cops knew a bit of maths and what bike is what??? :msn-wink:

[FJRider]

It would be easy enough to police, if the cops knew a bit of maths and what bike is what??? :msn-wink:

Or ... issued with a list of what is not allowed ...

[neels]

If they go by the aussie model (which is pretty likely as there would be less work involved) then some yes and some no, only really the 250 2-strokes that are excluded.

See here http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/tests/motorcycleridertrainingscheme/motorcyclesnoviceriders.html

The main effect would be the arse dropping out of the market for 20 year old 4 cylinder 250's.

[nosebleed]

Wasn't really a "few" questions was it?

Surely "For those already on the smaller quick bikes like CBR250RR ZXR250 FZR250 GSXR250 and NSR TZR RGV, will they be forced to get rid of their bikes? That would be really unfair if so. ." will depend entirely on what the ratio turns out to be.

[Smifffy]

It would most likely be grandfathered over... meaning no new learner can ride legally on one those bikes... older learners or those on restricted would be allowed to keep what they have etc...




I'd say fuck 'em - sort their shit out and go for their full before it came in. WTF anyone would want to run around on an L or R for the rest of their life is beyond me.

[FJRider]

The main effect would be the arse dropping out of the market for 20 year old 4 cylinder 250's.

Or the 250 market as a whole ...

[MSTRS]

It is in the pipeline. End of this year, I believe.
The Oz model is essentially adopted, with a variety of bikes up to 660cc allowed for learners. Some under this will not be allowed...including 250cc 2-stroke RR-type and any RR-type 4 stroke over 250cc. In fact, I'd say you'd be lucky to find any 4 cylinder 4 stroke over 400cc is allowed.
The list is compiled using a bike's rated HP, weight and assuming a rider weight of 90kg to determine P/W ratio.

[racefactory]

MSTRS- just wondering from where do you believe it will take place this year?

I have a few questions:

Does anyone know when it is going to take place for sure?

Will the fine for breaking the restriction still remain at $100?

Will the time to wait until being able to sit full license be the same after the new rules? Eg. someone is 1 month away from getting their full license and then the rule takes place not allowing them to sit it for another year or what have you. Or is this just a power to weight restriction on learners and restricted licenses and not a change of the time require to hold each one?

[FJRider]

Does anyone know when it is going to take place for sure?

Will the fine for breaking the restriction still remain at $100?

expect more ... with demerits ....

[racefactory]

I've been on my learners for eternity now and never got around to upgrading until recently. I'm wondering if the changes will make me have to wait even longer for my full now. I don't mind so much if the fine remains at $100 though.

[Smifffy]

I've been on my learners for eternity now and never got around to upgrading until recently. I'm wondering if the changes will make me have to wait even longer for my full now. I don't mind so much if the fine remains at $100 though.


Maybe you should have gotten around to it sooner. What was the hold up?

[racefactory]

I know, probably should have got around to it more soon. Well a good couple of years ago would have done.

I don't know, just never got around to it. License restrictions never caused me any grief really. $100 is not much to pay if I was ever pulled over but I never really ride like a raving lunatic in built up public areas to deserve police attention anyway.

Restricted test tomorrow!!! If I fail it'll be epic... will be sure not to bring the 996 though.

[Gubb]

It's $400 for riding outside your license restrictions.

[racefactory]

No it's not, it's 100. Bet you a hundy on that. There are demerits too but I couldn't give a fuck. Never had a demerit in my life.

[MSTRS]

MSTRS- just wondering from where do you believe it will take place this year?

Just samething I think I remember re when. But changes are afoot... http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/govt-acts-improve-motorcycle-safety


It's $400 for riding outside your license restrictions.

Nup. Used to be - was dropped to $100 recently and demerits added. 25 or 35, depending on which breach.

[Smifffy]

I know, probably should have got around to it more soon. Well a good couple of years ago would have done.

I don't know, just never got around to it. License restrictions never caused me any grief really. $100 is not much to pay if I was ever pulled over but I never really ride like a raving lunatic in built up public areas to deserve police attention anyway.

Restricted test tomorrow!!! If I fail it'll be epic... will be sure not to bring the 996 though.

Given all of this, why would you care in the least about a power to weight restriction?

I doubt the penalty would be any greater than for riding a 996 on an L.

[specter]

I've been on my learners for eternity now and never got around to upgrading until recently. I'm wondering if the changes will make me have to wait even longer for my full now. I don't mind so much if the fine remains at $100 though.


so you're on your learners with a ducati 996?

[Gibbo89]

so you're on your learners with a ducati 996?

I think he actually downgraded to a zx6 but he hasn't updated his profile, might be wrong though.

[Smifffy]

I think he actually downgraded to a zx6 but he hasn't updated his profile, might be wrong though.

Some would call that an upgrade :bleh: :msn-wink:

[RiderInBlack]

I know, probably should have got around to it more soon. Well a good couple of years ago would have done.

I don't know, just never got around to it. License restrictions never caused me any grief really. $100 is not much to pay if I was ever pulled over but I never really ride like a raving lunatic in built up public areas to deserve police attention anyway.

Restricted test tomorrow!!! If I fail it'll be epic... will be sure not to bring the 996 though.Bout time ya got off ya lazy arse and stopped being a "L"oser. Hope ya past. Ya better work on passing Resricted too, before they make it harder and more expensive to obtain.

[miloking]

so you're on your learners with a ducati 996?

Its just a plastic card with number printed on it.....i was on L with my CBR for some time and didnt die :)

[racefactory]

Some would call that an upgrade :bleh: :msn-wink:

Yeah to be perfectly honest it is really an step up to the 636. I really do miss the sound sometimes but the I4's have their charms too.


Bout time ya got off ya lazy arse and stopped being a "L"oser. Hope ya past. Ya better work on passing Resricted too, before they make it harder and more expensive to obtain.

That's right man, sitting it in 45 mins now, nervous as fuck though!!


Its just a plastic card with number printed on it.....i was on L with my CBR for some time and didnt die :)

Yeah in the end it just comes down to realizing that the fine is worth it for the $$$ you save not buying a shitty overpriced 250...

[p.dath]

Wasn't really a "few" questions was it?

Surely "For those already on the smaller quick bikes like CBR250RR ZXR250 FZR250 GSXR250 and NSR TZR RGV, will they be forced to get rid of their bikes? That would be really unfair if so. ." will depend entirely on what the ratio turns out to be.

I only recall 250cc 2 strokes being on the "not allowed" list. I recall the CBR250RR being on the allowed list. Don't forget the CBR250RR is a 20 year old piece of technology that still uses carbs.

[MSTRS]

I only recall 250cc 2 strokes being on the "not allowed" list. I recall the CBR250RR being on the allowed list. Don't forget the CBR250RR is a 20 year old piece of technology that still uses carbs.

Correct. And Stephen Joyce's assertion "A power-to-weight restriction for novices replaces the current cc restrictions, as there are now high performance bikes available with a low cc." just shows that he is out of touch with reality. There are NO 250 bikes (apart from the likes of the Aprillia - which would be a banned performance 2 stroke anyway) today that are capable of anything like the rates of acceleration/top speed of those 1990's RR jobs.

[racefactory]

Correct. And Stephen Joyce's assertion "A power-to-weight restriction for novices replaces the current cc restrictions, as there are now high performance bikes available with a low cc." just shows that he is out of touch with reality. There are NO 250 bikes (apart from the likes of the Aprillia - which would be a banned performance 2 stroke anyway) today that are capable of anything like the rates of acceleration/top speed of those 1990's RR jobs.

thats right they don't build em like they used to

[blackdog]

Its just a plastic card with number printed on it.....i was on L with my CBR for some time and didnt die :)


Yeah in the end it just comes down to realizing that the fine is worth it for the $$$ you save not buying a shitty overpriced 250...

For some people it's worth it, to enable them to get insurance.

[Smifffy]

That's right man, sitting it in 45 mins now, nervous as fuck though!!



So how'd it go?

[MSTRS]

thats right they don't build em like they used to

Joyce is on the right track, it's just his 'reasoning' is wrong.

[scumdog]

Why were 'L' restrictions brought in??

[Bald Eagle]

Joyce is on the right track, it's just his 'reasoning' is wrong.


:rofl: ..... and reasoning in the same sentence :rofl:

[MSTRS]

Prick. :niceone:
I mean he's doing the right thing opening up (and restricting) the range of bikes available to the entry market.
But saying today's bikes have got too powerful shows he's out of touch with the smaller bikes.

[racefactory]

So how'd it go?

I passed! Was pretty surprisingly nervous though, especially with that shambles of a GN250! The tester was actually a pretty cool guy, had multiple bikes of all sorts. Still I didn't dare to mention I ride a 996.

[CatTheBrat]

Hi everyone, newbie here - does this mean learners can't have a Ninja 250R? :blink:
Thanks

[MSTRS]

It's fine. Please pay attention when in class...:innocent:

[superman]

For ages now I have heard people say that NZ will adopt a power to weight licensing system for motorcycles. I have a few questions.

When will it be implemented by?

For those already on the smaller quick bikes like CBR250RR ZXR250 FZR250 GSXR250 and NSR TZR RGV, will they be forced to get rid of their bikes? That would be really unfair if so.

Yeah and especially the RS250. I mean if you already got it and get to hop up to 100 in 3.5s who are they to tell you it's too much power for you on your learners!

[MSTRS]

I suspect that if you already own/ride one on the banned list, you will be allowed to continue. But there will be a cut-off date whereby you MUST have passed all your licence stages. Or lose the banned bike.

[ducatilover]

If the 90's race rep toys are banned, their price will go down, which works for me. I could rock a CBR-RR as a cheap and fun track hack or for when I feel like having no torque.
Looking forward to it.
One disadvantage is the step up to larger bikes will be more extreme. Considering your average 600cc super sports bikes make 100hp more than the current 250 twins....:facepalm: Maybe it should be encouraged to go to a second P/Weight ratio? Similar to that of a 400cc/650 twin? That will allow people on their restricted to own a fairly yummy bike without the massive step up, make the learner period a mandatory, no excuses, year. Then another year at least on a small-mid size bike. It will help improve the market for the SV650/GT650(R)/ER650(F/N) etc and bby the time Billy Bob gets his full licence he will have experience with reasonable amounts of pep.
Or is my idea too logical?

[MSTRS]

If the 90's race rep toys are banned, their price will go down, which works for me. I could rock a CBR-RR as a cheap and fun track hack or for when I feel like having no torque.


*someone else* needs to pay attention in class.
performance 2 stroke 250 only

[ducatilover]

*someone else* needs to pay attention in class.
performance 2 stroke 250 only

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: Not enough face palms

One of them will be even better then!
Though, I doubt the two stroke market will fall much, if at all :facepalm:

[jono035]

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: Not enough face palms

One of them will be even better then!
Though, I doubt the two stroke market will fall much, if at all :facepalm:

I think you'll be quite surprised. Plenty of people around asking silly money for old/beaten up 2-stroke 250s, it's easily as inflated as the 4-stroke 250 market, if not more.

[racefactory]

I would fucking love it if 2 strokes were banned, I would suddenly find myself drooling over cheap as dirt NSR250 bikes... oh the thought of it. wonderful possibilities for a gymkhana and track bike...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyuWK4cN4a8

[sleemanj]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyuWK4cN4a8

:gob:

Talk about control. Just imagine if ACC, combined with the Police, organised events and training like that in this country.

Looks like a crap load of fairly safe fun which would remarkably improve skills.

[fossil]

:gob:

Talk about control. Just imagine if ACC, combined with the Police, organised events and training like that in this country.

Looks like a crap load of fairly safe fun which would remarkably improve skills.

Hell this should be the skills handling test for restricted licenses.
Even if you were good enough to pass you'd have to fail so you could have another go and another go and

[slothracer]

So does this mean this same power to weight ratios are the same all the way through to the full licence.

Pfft its like they can stop me riding my bike

yeah:facepalm: more f@#king homosexual harley riders with seat mounted dillers up there ass on the new zealand roads yeah:facepalm:

[slothracer]

Hi everyone, newbie here - does this mean learners can't have a Ninja 250R? :blink:
Thanks

na mate you will be right mate, there slow
but when your out riding think of the unlucky people like us that wont be aloud:angry:

[racefactory]

na mate you will be right mate, there slow
but when your out riding think of the unlucky people like us that wont be aloud:angry:

I will buy your bike for $900, it's the best you will get for it my friend. It's going to be my Gymkhana race bike.

[sil3nt]

This thread is crackup. Does nobody actually look at the list of allowed bikes? The only question people should be asking is "will the RVF 400 NC35 be allowed?".

This bike appears on most of the LAMS lists (maybe even all of them?) but i have heard the Aussie government has caught on to this being a rather powerful learner bike and it will no longer be allowed.

[slothracer]

I think you'll be quite surprised. Plenty of people around asking silly money for old/beaten up 2-stroke 250s, it's easily as inflated as the 4-stroke 250 market, if not more.
na mate i got mine for 3 grand. its tidy as and only has done 16,000k, just gota look round, i think it maybe called bargain hunting?

[racefactory]

This thread is crackup. Does nobody actually look at the list of allowed bikes? The only question people should be asking is "will the RVF 400 NC35 be allowed?".

This bike appears on most of the LAMS lists (maybe even all of them?) but i have heard the Aussie government has caught on to this being a rather powerful learner bike and it will no longer be allowed.

Is the NC30 allowed?

[ducatilover]

This thread is crackup. Does nobody actually look at the list of allowed bikes? The only question people should be asking is "will the RVF 400 NC35 be allowed?".

This bike appears on most of the LAMS lists (maybe even all of them?) but i have heard the Aussie government has caught on to this being a rather powerful learner bike and it will no longer be allowed.

'Tis a bit over the top as a learners bikes....

Off to go drool over them on trademe. :love: :innocent:
Might start looking at NC30s again....:woohoo:

[ducatilover]

na mate i got mine for 3 grand. its tidy as and only has done 16,000k, just gota look round, i think it maybe called bargain hunting?

:innocent: Does it do mean wheelies?

[sil3nt]

Is the NC30 allowed?No. The NC35 has its official power set at 53hp. The NC30 has its power listed at 59hp. The NC35 only just squeezes in under the power to weight ratio.

[ducatilover]

No. The NC35 has its official power set at 53hp. The NC30 has its power listed at 59hp. The NC35 only just squeezes in under the power to weight ratio.

That 53HP is a lie, my CB400 is supposedly 53hp :innocent: Yet I have a dyno sheet on the computer with a 55hp run at the wheel.

[sil3nt]

That 53HP is a lie, my CB400 is supposedly 53hp :innocent: Yet I have a dyno sheet on the computer with a 55hp run at the wheel.Everyone knows it makes more than 53hp thats just the numbers the bike left Japan with.

[slothracer]

:innocent: Does it do mean wheelies?

yeah :yes: 1,2, 3 (with clutch)

[ttmadness]

that's really good news and NC35's will be HOT bikees for learners... prices up to 7k i reckon?

[sil3nt]

that's really good news and NC35's will be HOT bikees for learners... prices up to 7k i reckon?A bit more than that! http://cars.shop.ebay.com.au/Motorcycles-/32073/i.html?_nkw=RVF&_catref=1&_dmpt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282

[ducatilover]

yeah :yes: 1,2, 3 (with clutch)
Videos or you're lying.


Everyone knows it makes more than 53hp thats just the numbers the bike left Japan with.

Cheeky wee buggers aren't they? :love:

[sil3nt]

Cheeky wee buggers aren't they? :love:Good for the Aussies and maybe us. Even better for anyone whos holding onto their RVF.

[FJRider]

Considering the original post in this thread was in 2008 ... the headlight rule is the only bit that has been introduced ...

[Beren]

Grr, would love to know when/if the power to weight ratio rules are going to be introduced - not keen on spending big money on a 250 if the bottom is going to fall out of the market.

[nodrog]

Grr, would love to know when/if the power to weight ratio rules are going to be introduced - not keen on spending big money on a 250 if the bottom is going to fall out of the market.

Tuesday I think.

Fanny.

[Latte]

Tuesday I think.

Fanny.

You were a much nicer person on the Hyobag :Pokey: :D

[davereid]

Grr, would love to know when/if the power to weight ratio rules are going to be introduced - not keen on spending big money on a 250 if the bottom is going to fall out of the market.


The official date was April 1.

The actual date is now quoted on the NZTA web site as May 1.

It may even be delayed more.

[fatboy323]

The official date was April 1.

The actual date is now quoted on the NZTA web site as May 1.

It may even be delayed more.

Where do you get that official date from? I can't find it on the NZTA website.

[slothracer]

Its gotta suck if you just got one of the 250's that have been excluded.. yes it does but i have heard i can get a license exemption, do you know who i have to speak to about it

Ha! found it
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/consultation/driver-licensing-amendment-2011/docs/q-and-a.pdf

What about people who are part way through the GDLS, and their 250cc motorcycle isn’t
a LAMS motorcycle?
A 3-year transitional period will allow for a smooth transition for novice riders who have
entered the motorcycle GDLS just prior to these provisions coming into force. This means that
they will be able to get a full licence by progressing through the current GDLS.

[cbfb]

The official date was April 1.

The actual date is now quoted on the NZTA web site as May 1.

It may even be delayed more.

Yeah where did you get that date?

I rang NZTA just now and they don't know themselves, apparently they are waiting on parliament to make a decision on it.

[fatboy323]

Ha! found it
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/consultation/driver-licensing-amendment-2011/docs/q-and-a.pdf




Yeah where did you get that date?

I rang NZTA just now and they don't know themselves, apparently they are waiting on parliament to make a decision on it.

In the slothracer's link there's a mention on top of page 9

When is this being changed and when will it apply?
The majority of proposals in the amendment Rule will come into force on 1 July 2011. Some
proposals may take longer to implement due to system change requirements. The date of
implementation for this proposal will be confirmed after consultation on the amendment Rule.

However, I remember reading somewhere that it will actually be start of 2012 when this legislation comes into effect. Rather annoying we don't have a date :angry:

[cbfb]

In the slothracer's link there's a mention on top of page 9

When is this being changed and when will it apply?
The majority of proposals in the amendment Rule will come into force on 1 July 2011. Some
proposals may take longer to implement due to system change requirements. The date of
implementation for this proposal will be confirmed after consultation on the amendment Rule.

However, I remember reading somewhere that it will actually be start of 2012 when this legislation comes into effect. Rather annoying we don't have a date :angry:

The woman I spoke to at NZTA said it should have been September last year (?) but they were still waiting for it to get through parliament so it would be a while yet, even they don't know the dates.

Some planning skills on display there, wonder how long these muppets would survive in the private sector :facepalm:

[shonofear]

wow, like 3 years on...
i come from QLD, AUS and the LAMS scheme gives much more options though i ended up with a VTR250 just cause i liked the looks and a good reliable first bike.

but will this new NZ LAMS take out the 250's ? or did i read it wrong...

but now that im over here on my OZ license, i think (still got to ring up NZ transport) i will be restricted to a 250, and a really wanted something around 400-500cc.

would be great if they implemented on the 1st of July though, they seriously should.

[davereid]

The woman I spoke to at NZTA said it should have been September last year (?) but they were still waiting for it to get through parliament so it would be a while yet, even they don't know the dates.

Some planning skills on display there, wonder how long these muppets would survive in the private sector :facepalm:

Yes, when I posted the dates in March, the dates I posted was what was expected.

However only some of the amendment act was passed. The rest of it, including LAMS languishes with our elected leaders.

[4AGE]

So when i sell my MC19 in a year or so, i will get jack all for it if this law is passed. Poos.

I wish they could give us an accurate date for this. Bloody politicians.

[racefactory]

It's apparently August now. I'll buy your MC19 off you for a race bike.

[jaffaonajappa]

It's apparently August now. I'll buy your MC19 off you for a race bike.

Nope. August is not confirmed.....not even close.

It is likely to be within the next 9 years tho.

[akkadian]

Lets start a pool on when it comes in!! My guess is March 2013... :banana:

[Ender EnZed]

Lets start a pool on when it comes in!! My guess is March 2013... :banana:

The 1st of October 2012.

[Latte]

Nope. August is not confirmed.....not even close.

It is likely to be within the next 9 years tho.

I better add that 3g back to the sale price on the 250 then. :p

[p.dath]

What's the bet it comes in just as electric motorcycles take off, and obsoletes the "new" law ...

[oneofsix]

What's the bet it comes in just as electric motorcycles take off, and obsoletes the "new" law ...

wont make a difference will it? Power measured in Horse power or what ever is better than CC rating when it come to including the electric bikes. I suspect the electric bikes are a factor in them deciding to change the law, possibly a minor one but I bet they got a mention.

[ducatilover]

I'd like them to hurry up and put it through, the current law is a bit silly.