Power to weight restriction

[Ixion]

Government announces (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0803/S00490.htm)new rules for motorcycles

Synopsis

The 250cc limit goes, replaced by the Australiam LAM list. Which is good in that learners will not be restricted to 250cc, bad in that the 250cc two strokes are forbidden. The list does include larger bikes , up to 660cc, but only specified (non sports) models. Based on 150kw / tonne.

25 demerits for not wearing a helemt (huh - when was the last time you ever anyone not wearing one ?)

3 year maximum on learners.

Compulsary headlights at all times

Over 25s now have to spend 12 months not 6 on restricted. But there is a vague mention of "competency based assessments " (The CBTA ?) and discounts for motorcycle specific courses

The 70kph learner limit goes. At last.


Raise in the minimum learner age form 15 to 16 still coming down the pike

[Edbear]

Sounds okay to me...

[Ixion]

Check out here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=70332)

[Tank]

about time!

[HornetBoy]

Fak me now they finally do it ! :angry:

Ahwell id say this will more than likely drive some of the budget range 600cc bikes prices up a bit :first:

[Usarka]

List of approved motorcycles for the aussie scheme here (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/tests/motorcycleridertrainingscheme/motorcyclesnoviceriders.html). Will be the same of very similaralar.

[HDTboy]

I can't work out the date these rules come into place.

[Crisis management]

Finally, a common sense approach to learning to ride, I hope this means we get more rider training available and that bikers get used to the idea of being taught skills rather than learning by mistake.

I didn't see a date this applies from, anyone?

[Tank]

List of approved motorcycles for the aussie scheme here (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/tests/motorcycleridertrainingscheme/motorcyclesnoviceriders.html). Will be the same of very similaralar.

Its gotta suck if you just got one of the 250's that have been excluded..

[Swoop]

The helmet rule is for those riding on beaches, I guess???

[stanko]

heres the list of LAMS bikes from Aussie take yer pick
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Approved motorcycles for novice riders



In This Section

Approved motorcycles for novice riders


Eligible Motorcycles in the category 0-260ml.
All models with the exception of:
Suzuki RGV250
Kawasaki KR250 (KR-1 and KR1s models)
Honda NSR250
Yamaha TZR250
Aprila RS250

Eligible Motorcycles in the category 261 - 660ml
AJS MODEL 18
MODEL 30
APRILA MOTO 6.5
PEGASO 650
PEGASO 650 I.E.
RXV 450
RXV 550
SXV 450
SXV 550
ARIEL HUNTMASTER
RED HUNTER 350
RED HUNTER 500
BENELLI Velvet 400
BLTACO SHERPA
BMW F650
F650CS
F650GD
F650GS
F650ST
R50
R60
R60/5
R60/6
R65
R69
BSA B33
B50SS GOLDSTAR
EMPIRESTAR
GOLD STAR
GOLDEN FLASH
LIGHTNING
SPITFIRE MKIII
THUNDERBOLT

CAGIVA 410TE
610TE
610TE-E
CANYON 500
CANYON 600
RIVER 600
W16 600
COSSACK 650
DNEPER K650
DOUG 350
DUCATI 400 SS JUNIOR
DM450
DM500
M620ie (24kw LITE)
SL 500 PANTAH
SL 600 PANTAH
ENFIELD BULLET DELUXE
BULLET ELECTRA
BULLET 65
BULLET CLASSIC
TAURUS
GASGAS EC300
EC400
FSE450
FSE500
FSE400
Pamera450
SM400
SUPERMOTARD

HARLEY SS350
HONDA 600V TRANSALP
BROS
CB350
CB350F
CB400
CB400F
CB400N
CB400T
CB500
CB650
CRF450
CX500
NT650v DEAUVILLE
NX650
FT500
REVERE
RVF400
SHADOW
SILVERWING
SL350
VF400F
VT500
VT600C
XBR500
XL350
XL500
XL600
XL650 vTRANSALP
XR350
XR350R
XR400M
XR400R
XR500
XR600
XR600R
XR650L
HUSABERG FE(ENDURO)4E8
FE(ENDURO)5E8
FE(ENDURO)7E8
FE400
FE450
FE501
FE550
FE600
FE650
FS450
FS650
HUSQVANA 350TE
400TE
410TE
430WR
510TE
610TE
610TE-E
SM450R
SM510R
HYOSUNG COMET GT650L
GV650L
GT650SL
GT650RL
INDIAN 741 STOUT
IZH Jupiter 350
JAWA 350
KAWASAKI EN450
ER500A
ER500C
EX400
EX500A
KL600
KL650A
KL650B
KL650C
KL650E **
KLE500A
KLR 650
KLX300B
KLX400B
KLX450A **
KLX650B
KLX650C
KZ400
KZ440
KZ500
KZ550
LTD440
Z600A
Z650B
ZR550B
Z500
KTM 625 SMC
660 SMC
EXC450
EXC SERIES 300
EXC SERIES 360
EXC SERIES 380
EXC SERIES 400
EXC SERIES 510
EXC SERIES 525
GS SERIES 300
GS SERIES 400
GS SERIES 450
GS SERIES 500
GS SERIES 550
GS SERIES 600
LC4 SERIES 300
LC4 SERIES 400
LC4 SERIES 500
LC4 SERIES 540
LC4 SERIES 550
LC4 SERIES 600
LC4 SERIES 625
LC4 SERIES 650
LAVERDA 500
MAICO 500
MATCHLESS 600
650
G80 MAJOR
MONTESSA COTA
MORINI 350 SPORT
500 STRADA
500W
MOTO GUZZI V35
V50
V65
MUZ BAGHIRA 660
SCORPION REPLICA
SKORPION SPORT
SKORPION TOUR
MVAUGUSTA 350
MZ ETZ250
NORTON 50
DOMINATOR
ES2
MODEL 88
PANTHER 600
650
PIAGGIO X9 500
RICKMAN 650
ROYAL ENFIELD 650
Bullet 500
Lightning 500
Bullet 350
Diesel 324
RUDGEWHITHWORTH 650
Ulster
SUZUKI AN400
AN650
DR350
DR350S
DR500
DR600R
DR650R
DR650RE
DR650RL
DR650RSL
DR650SE
DR-Z400E
GR650
GS450E
GS450S
GS450SX
GS500
GS500E
GS500K
GS550
GSX400E
GSX400F
LS650
RE5
XF650
TM 300 ENDURO
TM300
TM400
TRIUMPH BONNEVILLE 650
SPEEDTWIN
T100 TIGER
T100R DAYTONA 500
THUNDERBIRD 650
TROPHY 500
TROPHY 650
TRW25
URAL 650
VELOCETTE MAC 350
MSS 500
VENOM
VOR 400 ENDURO
450 ENDURO
500 ENDURO
530 ENDURO
YAMAHA RD400
RT350
SR500
SRX600
SZR660
TT350
TT600
TT600E
TT600R
TX650
WR400F
WR426F
WR450
XJ550
XJ650
XJR400
XP500
XS400
XS650
XT225
XT350
XT500
XT550
XT600
XT660R
XT660X
XTZ660
XV535
XVS650
XVS650A
XZ550
YP 400

[Ixion]

I can't work out the date these rules come into place.

"later this year". It has to go through a consultation process first .

[MSTRS]

There'll be a few not happy about that, but generally they got it about right. *sits back basking in the glow of full licence status since 1973*

[Ixion]

I do so want to see a learner on a Rudge Ulster of Goldie !

Not actually all that many larger than 250cc bikes there that aren't classics or chookchasers. And not many crusiers ?

[vifferman]

There are some weird inclusions on that list, like the RD400. :blink:

[Ixion]

But not the RD350. Unless that's what they mean by the RT350. Not really a biggie , not many learners will go for classics.

What may be an issue is that NZ has got a lot of bikes on the road that Oz never got. F'instance, they list the Yamaha XV535, but not the XV400 or XV500 ?

I imagine that there will opportunity to ask for inculsions (or exclusions!). BRONZ will make submissions accordingly. I may start a "please add this bike to the list" thread.

[Livvy]

It sounds okay... :confused:

Let's just wait to see what people start to whine about.

[Badjelly]

Check out here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=70332)

Thanks very much, Ixion, but perhaps the thread title should be "Government announces the rules will get changed later this year (or thereabouts)".

[stanko]

Heres the Aussie approved bike list (LAMS) take your pick



Eligible Motorcycles in the category 0-260ml.
All models with the exception of:
Suzuki RGV250
Kawasaki KR250 (KR-1 and KR1s models)
Honda NSR250
Yamaha TZR250
Aprila RS250

Eligible Motorcycles in the category 261 - 660ml
AJS MODEL 18
MODEL 30
APRILA MOTO 6.5
PEGASO 650
PEGASO 650 I.E.
RXV 450
RXV 550
SXV 450
SXV 550
ARIEL HUNTMASTER
RED HUNTER 350
RED HUNTER 500
BENELLI Velvet 400
BLTACO SHERPA
BMW F650
F650CS
F650GD
F650GS
F650ST
R50
R60
R60/5
R60/6
R65
R69
BSA B33
B50SS GOLDSTAR
EMPIRESTAR
GOLD STAR
GOLDEN FLASH
LIGHTNING
SPITFIRE MKIII
THUNDERBOLT

CAGIVA 410TE
610TE
610TE-E
CANYON 500
CANYON 600
RIVER 600
W16 600
COSSACK 650
DNEPER K650
DOUG 350
DUCATI 400 SS JUNIOR
DM450
DM500
M620ie (24kw LITE)
SL 500 PANTAH
SL 600 PANTAH
ENFIELD BULLET DELUXE
BULLET ELECTRA
BULLET 65
BULLET CLASSIC
TAURUS
GASGAS EC300
EC400
FSE450
FSE500
FSE400
Pamera450
SM400
SUPERMOTARD

HARLEY SS350
HONDA 600V TRANSALP
BROS
CB350
CB350F
CB400
CB400F
CB400N
CB400T
CB500
CB650
CRF450
CX500
NT650v DEAUVILLE
NX650
FT500
REVERE
RVF400
SHADOW
SILVERWING
SL350
VF400F
VT500
VT600C
XBR500
XL350
XL500
XL600
XL650 vTRANSALP
XR350
XR350R
XR400M
XR400R
XR500
XR600
XR600R
XR650L
HUSABERG FE(ENDURO)4E8
FE(ENDURO)5E8
FE(ENDURO)7E8
FE400
FE450
FE501
FE550
FE600
FE650
FS450
FS650
HUSQVANA 350TE
400TE
410TE
430WR
510TE
610TE
610TE-E
SM450R
SM510R
HYOSUNG COMET GT650L
GV650L
GT650SL
GT650RL
INDIAN 741 STOUT
IZH Jupiter 350
JAWA 350
KAWASAKI EN450
ER500A
ER500C
EX400
EX500A
KL600
KL650A
KL650B
KL650C
KL650E **
KLE500A
KLR 650
KLX300B
KLX400B
KLX450A **
KLX650B
KLX650C
KZ400
KZ440
KZ500
KZ550
LTD440
Z600A
Z650B
ZR550B
Z500
KTM 625 SMC
660 SMC
EXC450
EXC SERIES 300
EXC SERIES 360
EXC SERIES 380
EXC SERIES 400
EXC SERIES 510
EXC SERIES 525
GS SERIES 300
GS SERIES 400
GS SERIES 450
GS SERIES 500
GS SERIES 550
GS SERIES 600
LC4 SERIES 300
LC4 SERIES 400
LC4 SERIES 500
LC4 SERIES 540
LC4 SERIES 550
LC4 SERIES 600
LC4 SERIES 625
LC4 SERIES 650
LAVERDA 500
MAICO 500
MATCHLESS 600
650
G80 MAJOR
MONTESSA COTA
MORINI 350 SPORT
500 STRADA
500W
MOTO GUZZI V35
V50
V65
MUZ BAGHIRA 660
SCORPION REPLICA
SKORPION SPORT
SKORPION TOUR
MVAUGUSTA 350
MZ ETZ250
NORTON 50
DOMINATOR
ES2
MODEL 88
PANTHER 600
650
PIAGGIO X9 500
RICKMAN 650
ROYAL ENFIELD 650
Bullet 500
Lightning 500
Bullet 350
Diesel 324
RUDGEWHITHWORTH 650
Ulster
SUZUKI AN400
AN650
DR350
DR350S
DR500
DR600R
DR650R
DR650RE
DR650RL
DR650RSL
DR650SE
DR-Z400E
GR650
GS450E
GS450S
GS450SX
GS500
GS500E
GS500K
GS550
GSX400E
GSX400F
LS650
RE5
XF650
TM 300 ENDURO
TM300
TM400
TRIUMPH BONNEVILLE 650
SPEEDTWIN
T100 TIGER
T100R DAYTONA 500
THUNDERBIRD 650
TROPHY 500
TROPHY 650
TRW25
URAL 650
VELOCETTE MAC 350
MSS 500
VENOM
VOR 400 ENDURO
450 ENDURO
500 ENDURO
530 ENDURO
YAMAHA RD400
RT350
SR500
SRX600
SZR660
TT350
TT600
TT600E
TT600R
TX650
WR400F
WR426F
WR450
XJ550
XJ650
XJR400
XP500
XS400
XS650
XT225
XT350
XT500
XT550
XT600
XT660R
XT660X
XTZ660
XV535
XVS650
XVS650A
XZ550
YP 400

[jim.cox]

Dont ya just love the way the government announces the rule changes - and <b>then</b> opens it up for consultation

[Ixion]

Noone's mentioned the abolition of the 70kph limit ?

[Gubb]

Guess that will plummet the value of my bike come re-sale time then.

Bummer.

[vifferman]

Noone's mentioned the abolition of the 70kph limit ?
Yeah, you did!
And an excellent thing it is too. :yes:
If they could just get rid of the "L" plates, learners would be much safer.

[Tank]

Noone's mentioned the abolition of the 70kph limit ?

They mentioned (in not so many words) - that nobody gave a rats arse about it anyway.

Glad to see it gone tho.

Interestingly enough that was how I got my exemption (they didnt want me doing 70 on the open roads).

Im guessing that once this becomes law getting exemptions will be almost impossible.

[jim.cox]

Guess that will plummet the value of my bike come re-sale time then.

But you bought it to ride - not sell - didn't you?

So go ride

And worry about the future when it happens

[Edbear]

They mentioned (in not so many words) - that nobody gave a rats arse about it anyway.

Glad to see it gone tho.

Interestingly enough that was how I got my exemption (they didnt want me doing 70 on the open roads).

Im guessing that once this becomes law getting exemptions will be almost impossible.

Yeah, but look at what you could be able to ride...! AJS's, BSA's, Matchless', Nortons, Royal Enfield's, Ural's...
:sunny:

[Maha]

25 demerits for not wearing a helemt (huh - when was the last time you ever anyone not wearing one ?)



You dont really want me to revisit that do ya??....:pinch:

[riffer]

About bloody time. I can remember having to borrow a C50 to sit my full licence on in 1985, because my 1970 CB350 didn't qualify.

And all my rich mates had RD250LCs. Pissed me off it did.

[fireball]

so in lamens terms?

cant be bothered reading all the crap ill just get confused parapharse for me please?:sweatdrop

[riffer]

Would it be a defence for riding an "unlisted" bike if you could provide a dyno reading showing less than 150kw/tonne output?

Like most others I think its about right. Although I've had my full since 1985 so it won't affect me.

[Usarka]

so in lamens terms?

cant be bothered reading all the crap ill just get confused parapharse for me please?:sweatdrop

Learners / restricteds can ride bikes above 250 (up to 660) as long as they are on the "list" which happens to be full of old shitters. And no two stroke 250 road bikes like rgv and rs..... 70km/hr limit is gone baby gone.

[JimO]

wouldnt want to have paid $6000 for a 15 year old 250 now

[vifferman]

25 demerits for not wearing a helemt (huh - when was the last time you ever anyone not wearing one ?)
Hmm.... now let me cast my mind back and see if I can remember....


....



.....


Ah yes!
Last weekend.
Two youfs were racing up, down and around our street, in shorts, t-shirts and token footwear (no helmets mind!) on two random dirtbikes.
Quite noisy they were.

Shame that cop what gived me a ticket for riding carefully and quietly home (albeit slightly above the speed limit) wornt around.

Question:
Is it legal to express your displeasure of noisy cars, random youfs riding in a dangerous and illegal fashion, etc etc. by heaving a warning cobblestone over the front wall of your section? (I'd throw a cowpat, or pie, but there aren't any of those stacked up behind my wall). :confused:

Before any of you red-reppers saddle up your hobbyhorses to sally forth, I'm not serious, just somewhat irritable.

[FROSTY]

BLOODY GOOD IDEA.
Now heres a chance to make some money IF the govmint just says the bike must have maximum hp/weight ratio of -x to y
SO who's gonna be the first to come up with a restricter kit for CBR/GSXR/r6/636/tt600 etc to pull them down to the right HP level?

[Usarka]

were they wearing gloves?

[Gubb]

Couldn't find anything on the site about the 2-stroke thing, but why would they get rid of 'em if they are under the power to weight ratio?

[Mikkel]

I'm just wondering when these changes will come into full effect and how the new licensing periods etc. will affect people who are already "in the system"...

[jonbuoy]

Blimey - common sense prevailed!!

[Edbear]

"Mr Duynhoven said since 2001 there had been a 28 percent increase in the number of motorcycles and over the same period a "staggering" 80 percent increase in people injured in motorcycle accidents.

"These proposals clearly target novice motorcyclists because these riders face the greatest crash risk. They are paying far too high a price -- in 2007 motorcyclists and pillions accounted for 10 percent of all road fatalities."

He said more people were expected to use motorcycles as the cost of fuel increased. People aged over 30 were over-represented in novice accidents.
...

ACC Minister Maryan Street said increasing visibility would make motorcyclists safer. They were not to blame for three-quarters of the accidents they were involved in.

The public will get a chance to comment on the proposals later in the year. The Land Transport Driver Licensing and Road User rules and Land Transport Offences and Penalties Regulations would need to be changed.

In a speech to the Automobile Association conference announcing the changes, Mr Duynhoven also repeated his view that compulsory third party insurance was needed.

He said the cost of uninsured motorists was between $53m and $85m a year. Most developed countries had compulsory third party insurance and young, novice and accident prone drivers paid higher premiums. Steeper premiums on higher performance vehicles could encourage drivers to opt for less powerful vehicles."

[fireball]

Blimey - common sense prevailed!!

now thats being silly wait for the full draft no doubt it will go to shit by then

[jrandom]

I do so want to see a learner on a Rudge Ulster of Goldie !

Or an MV Agusta 350!

But. I just gotta say...

FOOKIN 'ELL, the SXV 550 is gonna be learner legal?

:woohoo:

Jesus H. Christ, that almost makes me wish I was back on my 6L...

<img src="http://i29.tinypic.com/2cmll6a.jpg"/>

[James Deuce]

Couldn't find anything on the site about the 2-stroke thing, but why would they get rid of 'em if they are under the power to weight ratio?
It's unlikely they will be.

RG150s yes. Anything V-Twin/Parallel Twin, Race Rep & 250cc won't be if it is the Aussie LAMS model being used.

I'm very pleased though. This is the first set of common sense rule changes I've seen for motorcyclists in a long time, and it totally addresses the vast discrepancy in bike values for 250cc bikes. Maybe now the 20+ year old bikes of all CCs will drop to reasonable levels. People won't be so desparate to get off their 250cc bikes and a vast range of different types of motorcycle suddenly become useful options for people starting in bikes.

[Mikkel]

- Improve the safety of novice riders by restricting learner and restricted motorcycle licence holders to motorcycles which do not exceed a power-to-weight ratio of 150 kilowatts per tonne. This is required because technological developments have meant the current 250cc restriction allows motorcycles which are very powerful. In addition to the power-to-weight limit an upper limit of 660cc is proposed to ensure that the approved motorcycles are not too physically large for novice riders;

LMFAO. Technological developments - there hasn't been made a new powerful 250 ccm road bike for quite a few years now... :rolleyes:

[Joni]

Yeah Ixion posted about it earlier....:eek:

[James Deuce]

FOOKIN 'ELL, the SXV 550 is gonna be learner legal?





In restriced form. Not the 73HP, 60 hours of usage, total engine rebuild required form.

[Deviant Esq]

ACC Minister Maryan Street said increasing visibility would make motorcyclists safer. They were not to blame for three-quarters of the accidents they were involved in.
*snip*
Mr Duynhoven also repeated his view that compulsory third party insurance was needed.
About fucking time they realised that 75% of accidents involving a motorbike aren't the rider's fault. Also (IMHO) about time CTP (that's Compulsory Third Party) insurance was introduced here too. It won't solve all the problems, for sure, but when there is a system in place, a process to follow, it will make things more clear cut as to what to do.

I notice that in the list of 'inclusions' they've put the RVF400. God dammit! Would have quite liked to have been allowed to ride one of those on my restricted. Having said all that, I'm still glad I've got my full... I wouldn't have been able to afford much better than the faithful NZ250 anyway, it has served me so well all through my learners and restricted. :niceone:

[Tank]

Yeah Ixion posted about it earlier....:eek:

He's in the Waikato. It takes the interweb a bit longer to get down there.


:shifty:

[jrandom]

In restriced form.

*mildly insane giggle*

:shifty:

Yessssss. 'Restricted'.

<img src="http://www.motorcycle.com/images/content/Review/7-26-05-AM-190.jpg"/>

:doobey:

[Mikkel]

Oh, the police is going to get a fucking headache trying to enforce these restrictions:

1. Either they allow restrictions to be applied to bikes so they fit the power-to-weight requirement, or
2. They ban certain models based upon their model specifications only.

If 1. then they need to put a scheme in place that allows them to weigh and measure the power output of the specific bike to verify if it meets the restriction. If 2. then I predict a LOT of mucking around with accepted models (tuning, changing engines, lightening, you name it) to make them go faster...

Like speed limits the 250 ccm limit was damn easy to enforce - although it made about as much sense!

[Usarka]

Take the badges of your bike, that'll fuck with the coppas heads.

it's a DR650 officer. honest.

[Badjelly]

Oh, the police is going to get a fucking headache trying to enforce these restrictions:

What do the Aussies do?

[jrandom]

Oh, the police is going to get a fucking headache trying to enforce these restrictions...

Nope, it'll be simple.

The cops will have the reference list of learner-legal models ("anything under 250cc apart from these, and anything on this over-250cc list").

They'll pull learners over and check. It'll be about 20 seconds extra effort over looking at the bike to see what the engine displacement is.

If people want to go nuts and spend megabucks tuning their 'learner legal' bikes to get extra power, I suspect nobody will really give a damn.

[James Deuce]

LMFAO. Technological developments - there hasn't been made a new powerful 250 ccm road bike for quite a few years now... :rolleyes:
It takes them a while to catch up and they struggle to comprehend motorcycles as transport and motorcyclists as people. We have to be gentle with them.

[Grub]

Good stuff isn't it. Hardly any nay-sayers for that I wouldn't think. There's actually some quite powerful machines in the list so I hope it does what it sets out to do.

It is a pity that they haven't addressed the cost of getting through the licence process without having to get a student loan. The cost of compliance is way out of whack and does need streamlining.

[dipshit]

About fucking time they realised that 75% of accidents involving a motorbike aren't the rider's fault.

Except that's BS though. BRONZ must of told her that piece of crap. If you look at all accidents, it is about 50/50.

If you look at fatal motorcycle accidents, then it is 75% rider fault.

[Deviant Esq]

Except that's BS though. BRONZ most of told her that piece of crap. If you look at all accidents, it is about 50/50.

If you look at fatal motorcycle accidents, then it is 75% rider fault.
Yeah yeah, but if it's all the same to you, I'd rather claim innocence and keep my no claims bonus.... :innocent:

[MisterD]

SO who's gonna be the first to come up with a restricter kit for CBR/GSXR/r6/636/tt600 etc to pull them down to the right HP level?

Me! But I'm approaching the problem from the other direction - it's a simple bolt-on kit to carry about 150kg of bricks and thereby bring the weight up to the required level. :wacko:

[Fatjim]

List of approved motorcycles for the aussie scheme here (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/tests/motorcycleridertrainingscheme/motorcyclesnoviceriders.html). Will be the same of very similaralar.

Pretty much the entire BMW range, and LimmBimmTimmWiimmmmm's DR.

[Ixion]

Couldn't find anything on the site about the 2-stroke thing, but why would they get rid of 'em if they are under the power to weight ratio?

Two strokes as such are fine (they could hardly restrict them given the numbers of little two stroke scooters). But the race rep 250s (TZR RGV NSR etc) are specifically non-learner.

They missed a few though . TDM250 (TZR in a dual purpose frame). RZ250. TZ250 in road going form (doable in NZ) . Honda Elsinore. Most of the twostroke off roaders with a road kit (can't easily be done in Oz but it can in NZ). Suzuki X7.

I doubt they'll go for the UK GSXR10000 with a restrictor kit approach. UK shows how abused that is.

It'll be "on the list- OK. No, forget it"

They left of the 400cc bikes GX400 and such

[banditrider]

About time, wonders never cease.

Yes, it will drive the price of 250's down but so what. For one thing they are too dear now and for another it'll encourage even more people into riding. Some learners are still gonna go for smaller bikes for their size, economy and not so scary performance. It's also going to create a good market for mid-sized bikes too - maybe you'll get a good price for your 650 when you're trading up for your thou.

It's all good.

[Grub]

I wonder how this compares with the UK system (CBT is their Basic Handling Test)

16+ CBT (50cc moped) You may ride a moped (50 cc capable of less than 50Km/h) as a learner, with L plates provided that you continue to hold a valid CBT certificate. You may not carry passengers or use motorways etc.

17+ CBT
(moped or 125cc motorcycle or scooter) You may ride a 125 cc or less learner legal motorcycle (less than 11kW/16.6bhp) as a learner, with L plates provided that you continue to hold a valid CBT certificate. You may not carry passengers or use motorways etc.

17+ CBT (125cc manual recommended) plus Pass a Motorcycle Theory Test Practical Test on a 125 cc Learner legal motorcycle (e.g. Yamaha SR125)
Full restricted licence: You may ride a motorcycle restricted to 25kW / 33 bhp for 2 years. You may carry passengers and use motorways etc. Most bikes can be restricted to 33 BHP. After 2 years you can ride any bike.

21+ CBT (125cc manual recommended) plus Pass a Motorcycle Theory Test Practical Test on a 47 bhp motorcycle (e.g. Honda CB500)
Full licence: You may ride any sized motorcycle without power restriction, carry passengers and ride on motorways etc.

[HornetBoy]

At least most of these incredibly over priced 250's will be lowered a bit ,making them alot more affordable to people wanting a little 250 for commuting etc

I would say dealers will be doing some kinda sale similar to the recent thing wit the change in importation of Japanese cars,so possibly some good deals coming up i should suspect :devil2: i certainly will be keeping my eyes peeled for a 250 for my commute or just as a spare fun bike .

[Mikkel]

Nope, it'll be simple.
...
They'll pull learners over and check. It'll be about 20 seconds extra effort over looking at the bike to see what the engine displacement is.

Seeing what the displacement is isn't that easy. All you need is a chasis with the right VIN and that'll be a headache for mr. Constable.


If people want to go nuts and spend megabucks tuning their 'learner legal' bikes to get extra power, I suspect nobody will really give a damn.

Mate, that is what people are doing right now! Spending upwards $9,000 on a 250 is a lot of money. Bigger heavier bikes that aren't tuned as hard from factory has a much larger tuning potential...


It takes them a while to catch up and they struggle to comprehend motorcycles as transport and motorcyclists as people. We have to be gentle with them.

Mate, if I wanted gentle I would have bought something else than the mean greenie! ;)


Yes, it will drive the price of 250's down but so what. For one thing they are too dear now and for another it'll encourage even more people into riding. Some learners are still gonna go for smaller bikes for their size, economy and not so scary performance. It's also going to create a good market for mid-sized bikes too - maybe you'll get a good price for your 650 when you're trading up for your thou.

I'm not entirely sure about the whole market thing yet. If the 4-stroke 250 ccms are still legal (I didn't see them excluded on the list) they will still fetch a good price...

[Number One]

Sorry whose bottom are we feeling? :devil2:

[Grub]

SO who's gonna be the first to come up with a restricter kit for CBR/GSXR/r6/636/tt600 etc to pull them down to the right HP level?

I doubt that'll fly Frosty. They not stoopid. They know that the restrictor kit would be off the bike within hours of getting home.

If you read the NSW link, they say "... if it's not on the official list, you can't ride it ...". Pretty much means that in practice it's the list not the power/weight ratio that is the legal determinant.

[Mully]

BLOODY GOOD IDEA.
Now heres a chance to make some money IF the govmint just says the bike must have maximum hp/weight ratio of -x to y
SO who's gonna be the first to come up with a restricter kit for CBR/GSXR/r6/636/tt600 etc to pull them down to the right HP level?

There was a thing in the last 2 wheels magazine about LAMS and bikes that qualify. Apparently the Hyosung GT650 ships with 2 different carbs, and once you have your full, you send away and they send you the full power one.

If I can be bothered later on, I'll try scanning and saving the article here.

[Ixion]

Correct. The power/weight ratio is what the sheeple will consider if an application is made to put a bike on the list. But just saying "Oh, my bike is less than 150/tonne" won't cut it. has to be on The List

Incidentally, looking at that list , how old , in Woofle's name, was the dude who drew it up. There's bikes on there even I don't remember on the roads. Did he really think anyone was going to learn on a Rudge-Whitworth?

[DingoZ]

Would hazard a guess to the fact that if you are in the system now, as in going through the steps of getting your 6f. Then there would be no changes to that. Would be only the persons applying for 6l's after the implementation date.....

Hopefully this is the case, same as it was in Aus. When they brought out the changes for L's and P's for car licenses.....

In answer to a post earlier on the license question

[James Deuce]

*mildly insane giggle*

:shifty:

Yessssss. 'Restricted'.



:doobey:
Seriously dude you wouldn't want one as a road bike in race trim. That's a total engine rebuild. Crank, rods, pistons, valves, heads. It's fooking expensive and it WILL lunch itself if you don't follow the service schedule.

[jrandom]

Incidentally, looking at that list , how old , in Woofle's name, was the dude who drew it up. There's bikes on there even I don't remember on the roads. Did he really think anyone was going to learn on a Rudge-Whitworth?

While I'd love to imagine a crusty old motorcycle enthusiast sitting in a dingy office at the Ministry of Transport, grinning as he adds implausibly-classic bikes to the list, I suspect that the far more prosaic truth will be along the lines of a straightforward yes/no based on manufacturer-specified power and weight figures of every VINable motorcycle model that's been registered in NZ in the last 30 years.

[Morcs]

A couple of interesting points in the article.


- Reduce the level of risk for novice motorcyclists over the age of 25 by increasing the minimum time period these motorcyclists spend on a restricted licence from six to twelve months.


says far too many novice motorcyclists, particularly in the over-30 age group, are involved in crashes.


Im very glad these points were brought up. All these over 25's who, just because they are over 25, can go from basic handling to a full license (and of course straight onto a big bike) in 6 months or less or whatever it is with a defensive course)

Of course us younguns have to do the whole 9 yards (2 years minimum) (ive personally done 5 years) before they get their full - which is how it should be - because we actually learn how to ride in that time.

Anyone can learn to ride a bike in under an hour. But it takes a shite sight more than 6 months to learn how to ride, and there is obviously correlation with them not staying alive.

I see it all the time, a dude who decides he wants to ride bikes, has money, gets his basic handling, does the defensive course, does his full on a GN, then goes and buys something big, flash and new like a Busa, with all the bling, then say all expensive flash gear (ie. alpinestars) and give the impression that they can ride. Well I saw a guy fitting that description on the ATNR a few times, couldnt ride for shit.

Rant over. Im glad me and the Government agree on something.

[kiwifruit]

sweet :D
not so good for current 250 owners.. heh

[jimmy 2006]

yes! bring it on i say....

SXV 550 hmmmmmm.............

i wonder what the chances are of this happening before the end of this year?

all the dealers are going to be screwed just think of the sales that will happen, 250 prices should almost halve at the shops, and i doubt you will be able to give them away on tard me.

[dipshit]

Take the badges of your bike, that'll fuck with the coppas heads.

it's a DR650 officer. honest.

They will run the number plate before they even start talking to you. What it is registered as will be what counts.

[Horse]

All these over 25's who, just because they are over 25, can go from basic handling to a full license (and of course straight onto a big bike) in 6 months or less or whatever it is with a defensive course)

Current rules for over 25s are:

- 6 months on Learners
- 6 months on Restricted (or 3 months with a course)

So 12 months (or 9 months with a course) from BHS to Full License.

[jimmy 2006]

bah, just read 2010..... i will have my full by then anyway.

[Mikkel]

Im very glad these points were brought up. All these over 25's who, just because they are over 25, can go from basic handling to a full license (and of course straight onto a big bike) in 6 months or less or whatever it is with a defensive course)

Of course us younguns have to do the whole 9 yards (2 years minimum) (ive personally done 5 years) before they get their full - which is how it should be - because we actually learn how to ride in that time.

Anyone can learn to ride a bike in under an hour. But it takes a shite sight more than 6 months to learn how to ride, and there is obviously correlation with them not staying alive.

I see it all the time, a dude who decides he wants to ride bikes, has money, gets his basic handling, does the defensive course, does his full on a GN, then goes and buys something big, flash and new like a Busa, with all the bling, then say all expensive flash gear (ie. alpinestars) and give the impression that they can ride. Well I saw a guy fitting that description on the ATNR a few times, couldnt ride for shit.

You may not have thought about it this way - but...

Surviving on the road is not about how wide chicken strips you have got or how fast you can corner.

Riding a big bike safely has more to do with restraint and discipline - virtues that for most people manifest themselves with experience/age/maturity, not by display of balls.

As it was, it's possible to obtain your 6F in 9 months from the day you get your BHS if you are above 25. I think it is 15 months for those under 25. These figures are if you do an approved cause while on your restricted.

I don't know if you would dispute that safe road-use is very dependent upon your ability to read traffic and exercise safe judgement based on what you observe. As such, anyone who holds a full license in ANY category should be excused from the learners period IMHO - the restricted is all good, but putting people with 10+ years of roaduser experience on an L-plate just makes no sense whatsoever.

[Grub]

Its a bit of a shocker when you read that registrations have gone up 28% since 2001 and that fatalities have gone up 80% :gob: in the same time

[James Deuce]

Its a bit of a shocker when you read that registrations have gone up 28% since 2001 and that fatalities have gone up 80% :gob: in the same time

It should be a shock.

But it isn't.

[Fatjim]

I think if everyone who wanted a license for anything had to have a bike license first for 2 years the bike toll would start to drop once the old bastards who have never rode died off.

[Dave C]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10500713

Some good ideas, such as looking at power-to-weight rather than just engine size for newbies, and doing away with the 70k limit. But the sting in the tail is – where the f*%k is the training and increased focus on the REAL problem, which is dickheads in cars!! Three out of four accidents involving bikes are not the fault of the rider (according to none other than ACC Minister Maryan Street)! Watch out for the 'discussion paper', because if bikers don't voice an opinion, others will...

[RantyDave]

I have a VTR250 for slightly over a week - and this happens.

Great. Just great.

Still, I could have paid through the nose for a 15 year old ZXR250 - they're going to be the ones really taking it in the face come resale time. And the Hyosung owners. Ahhh, I'm starting to feel better already.

It is good news though. There seems something right about a learner being able to use a Bonneville.

Dave

[WelshWizard]

Motorcycle rules revved up
The Government is gearing up to reduce the high rate of motorcycle accidents by proposing tougher rules plus measures to improve training. What will it mean for riders?

[MSTRS]

Re the suspected price drop...I think we will find that some models of 4 stroke 250's will hold very well, due to their power/weight/ultimate speed. The ZXR is an obvious one. The other thing is that many of the better performing 250's are shed-loads better than 9/10s of the 'list'. Won't be long before word gets around as to which ones.

[SPman]

all the dealers are going to be screwed just think of the sales that will happen, 250 prices should almost halve at the shops, and i doubt you will be able to give them away on tard me.
But - at least they will be more affordable to those who actually want a 250 mini racer.
When you are tired of unlimited power, they are a ball to go out and have fun on!

[BAD DAD]

I think if everyone who wanted a license for anything had to have a bike license first for 2 years the bike toll would start to drop once the old bastards who have never rode died off.

Amen. (+ 10 charac )

[jrandom]

tired of unlimited power

Huh?<tencharacters>

[Eddieb]

BLOODY GOOD IDEA.
SO who's gonna be the first to come up with a restricter kit for CBR/GSXR/r6/636/tt600 etc to pull them down to the right HP level?

In the UK you can buy kits to do that for a lot of bikes, even a Hayabusa.

If you are a leaner that list certainly givers you a lot of choice.

[Shadows]

Question:
Is it legal to express your displeasure of noisy cars, random youfs riding in a dangerous and illegal fashion, etc etc. by heaving a warning cobblestone over the front wall of your section? (I'd throw a cowpat, or pie, but there aren't any of those stacked up behind my wall). :confused:



I'm not sure but I've used a brick before and I didn't get arrested or anything. On that basis a wee cobblestone should be fine.

[dipshit]

But the sting in the tail is – where the f*%k is the training and increased focus on the REAL problem, which is dickheads in cars!! Three out of four accidents involving bikes are not the fault of the rider (according to none other than ACC Minister Maryan Street)

Because that isn't the real problem. It is a red herring fostered by the likes of BRONZ and others in the motorcycle industry to avoid facing up to some unpleasant truths.

75% of fatal motorcycle accidents are rider fault.

Counting all motorcycle accidents, it is about 50/50.

Remember the ministers were consulting with the motorcycle industry about this, so they probably told her their usual BS.

[scracha]

observe. As such, anyone who holds a full license in ANY category should be excused from the learners period IMHO - the restricted is all good, but putting people with 10+ years of roaduser experience on an L-plate just makes no sense whatsoever.

Bollocks it does. So johnny V8 has a mid-life crisis and decides to buy a GSXR1000. Splat. That's who are making huge dents in the accident stats.

I'm ALL for this lawchange. Wish they'd do similar with cars...as usual we're the guinea pigs.

Interesting that they can ride an RVF400 but not a CBR400......

[Ixion]

Bear in mind, that the list being discussed at present is actually the AUSTRALIAN list. We had bikes they did not. Did Oz have the CBR400 ?

We will have an opportunity to ask for additions or deletions when the NZ list is considered.

[WelshWizard]

TV 3
6 pm news for details

[neilwgtn]

I always have the opinion that "kids" arent taught the real road code... they are taught wahts legal and whats not.. but not taught how to drive correctly... (stopping in the middle of intersections... be courteous... let others pull in.. stay left... this is what cuases accidents.. pissing off other drivers.....

cheers.,.

well off to the hurricanes now...

GO HURRICANES

[headlesschicken]

good god. the government has seen the light! :clap:
They look like brilliant ideas to me. rs250 owners will be gutted though :baby:

[devnull]

What a crappy news report TV3 gave....

If you didn't know better, the way they presented this implies that bikers are all unsafe road users and as such consume heaps of ACC money.

Where the hell is the HP restrictions for young dickheads in cars? Like the boy racers that kill their passengers in collisions?

Every time politicians want to score brownie points, they target minority groups.

Dropping the 70km/h limit is good, but there seems to be no consistancy from these pricks at all.

Must be an election year...

[merv]

Here's Harry Duynhoven's guff on it:
-----------------------------------
Motorcycle safety package aims to cut crash rate

Hon Minister Duynhoven
Minister for Transport Safety

28 March 2008 Media Statement

Motorcycle safety package aims to cut high crash rate

The Government has announced a range of measures to reduce the
high number of motorcycle casualties on New Zealand roads.
Transport Safety Minister, Harry Duynhoven, says far too many
novice motorcyclists, particularly in the over-30 age group,
are involved in crashes.

“Since 2001, there has been a 28 percent increase in licensed
motorcycles, and this figure is expected to grow with predicted
rising fuel costs. But over the same period, there has been
a staggering 80 percent increase in motorcycle casualties.

“The package of initiatives signed off by Cabinet aims to address
this major road safety problem and to cut the high crash risk
of novice riders,” says Mr Duynhoven.

The motorcycle safety proposals form part of the implementation
of the Road Safety to 2010 Strategy. They include restrictions
on the use of powerful motorcycles by novice riders, changes
to the Graduated Driver Licensing System to encourage riders
to take up more motorcycle-specific training and the introduction
of safer motorcyling practices such as improving the visibility
of motorcycle and moped riders to other road users.

“These proposals clearly target novice motorcyclists because
these riders face the greatest crash risk. They are paying far
too high a price – in 2007, motorcyclists and pillions accounted
for 10 percent of all road fatalities.

“I am confident there will be strong support for the initiatives
as they address many of the issues raised in the “See You There…Safe
As!” public consultation programme run in 2006,” says Minister
Duynhoven.

One of the key issues arising from the public consultation concerned
the Graduated Driver Licensing System.

The package aimed at novice riders proposes restricting learner
and restricted motorcycle licence holders to less powerful motorcycles.
It also offers further training incentives to novice riders
to progress through their licence and puts a cap on the time
riders can spend on a learner licence.

In keeping with government proposals to shift the focus away
from fines to increased demerit points for lawbreaking motorists,
motorcyclists will run the risk of 25 demerit points for not
wearing a helmet.

“The emphasis is on ensuring novice motorcyclists are aware
of the increased risks they face on the road and that these riders
are well equipped for the responsibility of motorcycle ownership,”
says Mr Duynhoven.

The public will have the opportunity to comment on the proposed
changes towards the middle of this year as part of the Land Transport
Rules consultation process.
--

[merv]

Here's the Q/A part to the release:

1. What are the new proposals?
The proposals are to:
- Improve the safety of novice riders by restricting learner
and restricted motorcycle licence holders to motorcycles which
do not exceed a power-to-weight ratio of 150 kilowatts per tonne.
This is required because technological developments have meant
the current 250cc restriction allows motorcycles which are very
powerful. In addition to the power-to-weight limit an upper limit
of 660cc is proposed to ensure that the approved motorcycles
are not too physically large for novice riders;
- Encourage the uptake of rider training by amending the Graduated
Driver Licensing System (GDLS) for motorcyclists so an approved
motorcycle-specific training course completed in the learner
licence phase reduces the time spent on a restricted motorcycle
licence by six months;
- Introduce a motorcycle-specific competency based assessment
option as an alternative to the restricted and full licence tests
for those riders that undertake an approved motorcycle-specific
training course in the learner licence phase;
- Encourage progression through the GDLS by introducing a maximum
three year validity period for all learner motorcycle licences;
- Remove the 70km/h speed limit restriction which currently applies
to learner motorcycle licence holders. This restriction is largely
ignored. When this speed restriction is adhered to it creates
a large difference in the speed of vehicles travelling on the
open road, which is a known road safety problem. Road safety
research indicates this speed difference issue outweighs any
benefit of lower open road speed limits for novice motorcycle
riders;
- Increase compliance with the motorcycle helmet requirement
by introducing 25 demerit points and reducing the level of fine
from $150 to $50 for helmet incorrect and non-wearing offences;
- Improve the visibility of motorcycle and moped riders by introducing
a requirement for all motorcycle and moped riders to have daytime
running lights or their headlights on at all times when riding
on the road; and
- Reduce the level of risk for novice motorcyclists over the
age of 25 by increasing the minimum time period these motorcyclists
spend on a restricted licence from six to twelve months.

2. Why are these changes needed?
Motorcycle casualties (fatalities plus serious and minor injuries)
have grown significantly since 2001. While some growth in casualties
might have been expected as a result of the 28 percent increase
in licensed motorcycles over the same period, it is very concerning
that the casualty increase is so large. Furthermore the cost
of fuel has risen, and is likely to remain high, so motorcycle
ownership and use is likely to increase further. It is important
that best practice motorcycle safety initiatives are put in place
now to deal with this growing road safety problem.

3. Where have these best practice motorcycle initiatives come
from?
The majority of the GDLS proposals are based on a best practice
model for motorcycle licensing and training created by Monash
University in Melbourne. In the development of this model Monash
reviewed the motorcycle licensing and training systems in Australia,
the United Kingdom, parts of Europe and the U.S.A. The model
is based on the premise that motorcycle riding requires higher
levels of both vehicle control and cognitive skills than car
driving and that the potential outcomes of any failure on the
part of the rider, other road users, or the road environment
are severe. It states that in order to achieve substantial improvements
in the safety of motorcycling, the rider training and licensing
systems may need to be quite different than those for cars. New
Zealand already has aspects of the model in place, including
a Basic Motorcycle Handling Skills Test to obtain a learner licence.

There were also a couple of other specific motorcycle safety
issues emerging outside of the licensing and training systems
that needed a policy response.

4. Why have the specific limits of 150 kilowatts per tonne for
power-to-weight and 660cc for engine capacity been chosen as
a replacement for the current 250cc restriction for novice motorcyclists?

The limits are the same as those used for the Learner Approved
Motorcycle Scheme (LAMS), which was first introduced in New South
Wales (NSW) and has now been duplicated in a number of other
Australian states. In terms of ease of implementation and working
with bike importers and distributors the most expedient option
for New Zealand is to also duplicate the NSW LAMS model and use
their approved list of motorcycles. This scheme has been researched
thoroughly and has proved popular with the local motorcycling
community.

5. What role have motorcyclists played in the development of
these proposals?
In 2006, the Ministry of Transport organised a series of nationwide
public workshops to get public input into what were the road
safety priorities, and how these could be better addressed. The
See You There … Safe As! campaign attracted a lot of interest
and from this, and other information collected, a draft policy
statement was produced last December. Some of the proposals stem
directly from feedback motorcyclists gave at the Safe As workshops
and on the Safe As Community web-based forum. For example, removing
the 70km/h speed limit for learner motorcyclists and replacing
the 250cc restriction with a power-to-weight restriction for
novice motorcyclists.

Key motorcycle stakeholders have been consulted through the Motorcycle
Safety Reference Group, which is convened by the Accident Compensation
Corporation (ACC). The reference group involves the motorcycling
industry, manufacturers, retailers, trainers and motorcycle interest
groups. The group broadly supports the proposals.

6. Will there be any exemptions to the requirement for all motorcycle
and moped riders to have daytime running lights or their headlights
on at all times when riding on the road?
Consideration will be given to exempting motorcycles or mopeds
over forty years old from this requirement as some older electrical
charging systems (generators) do not have the capacity to reliably
produce the power necessary to operate headlamps continuously.

7. The proposals mainly focus on novice motorcyclists, what about
continuing and returning riders?
The proposals mainly focus on novice motorcyclists as they face
the greatest crash risk, a growing portion of which are in the
over 30 age group. However, there is a cross-government agency
motorcycle safety group led by the Ministry of Transport that
is examining non-legislative safety initiatives that will benefit
all motorcycle and moped riders. This includes possible infrastructure
improvements, education and enforcement activities.

ACC also plays a significant role in terms of promoting motorcycle
safety for continuing and returning riders through the provision
of education material (e.g. http://www.rideforever.co.nz/ (https://email.landtransport.govt.nz/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.rideforever.co.nz/)) and
the funding of research.

8. What else is happening that will have an impact on motorcycle
safety?
A Bill which proposes raising the minimum driving age from 15
to 16 has been introduced to Parliament and is currently before
the Transport and Industrial Relations Select Committee for consideration.
Late last year the Government also announced a package of road
safety measures focussing on:
- changes to the current penalty regime, and in particular the
demerit system;
- changes to the penalty regime for people caught speeding by
police officers;
- the introduction of demerit points for offences relating to
intersections; and
- a package of proposals aimed at reducing the high crash risk
to young and novice drivers.
These measures build on proposals announced recently to reduce
the blood alcohol content limit to zero for drivers under 20
who do not hold a full licence. All of these changes will automatically
apply to motorcyclists and moped riders and will assist in reducing
the risk of this road user group.

Requiring all mopeds to be inspected before registration is currently
being considered as part of a review of low powered vehicles.
Restricting moped riders with learner and restricted car driver
licences from carrying pillion passengers is to be included in
the Land Transport (Driver Licensing) Amendment Rule 2008.

When will the changes occur?
The proposals will require changes to the Land Transport Driver
Licensing and Road User rules and Land Transport Offences and
Penalties Regulations. Amendments to these are included in the
07/08 rules programme and there will be a chance to comment on
the proposals as part of the rules consultation process.

9. Where can I get further information?

The Regulatory Impact Statement is published on the Ministry
of Transport’s website: http://www.transport.govt.nz/ris-bccs/ (https://email.landtransport.govt.nz/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.transport.govt.nz/ris-bccs/)

Monash University Review of motorcycle licensing and training:
http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/muarc240.pdf (https://email.landtransport.govt.nz/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/muarc240.pdf)

[scracha]

Hey, but look on the bright side. I'll be able to race an RGV250 for absolute peanuts...... har har

[merv]

You see its all you novices over 30 that have been the problem says Harry :crazy:

[ynot slow]

Yep must be really bad when at last at 25 your insurance premiums drop cause of maturity,then you get to 30 and they go up?due to being away from riding.

As it stands those who want to ride outside their license conditions will still do so,and they may have unregistered bikes so are not paying acc levies.

Goes a good way to appease those who need a larger bike due to distances travelling,size of person.The abolishing of 70km limit will be good for highway riding.

[rwh]

The 150kW/tonne limit seems a little low ... seems to me the VTR250 and the new ninja (and probably the old gpx) will both fail that test - they seem plenty tame enough to me.

Good news for Hyosung, I guess.

Richard

[McDuck]

The GN 250 has 130Kw per ton. It needs to be worked out wit the rider on it.

[sprag]

i guess i better book in to do my full as I can from next month so will have to do it in May, anyone know when these new rules come in, I have 2 dates, august this year and 2010 and just want to know so I dont turn up and find out i have to wait another 6 months lol

[Dave-]

meh I'll have my full in 5 months time..

[Wally Simmonds]

I know it's not going to happen for a bit, but I'm reasonably happy I got rid of my 250 now.

[dipshit]

What a crappy news report TV3 gave....

If you didn't know better, the way they presented this implies that bikers are all unsafe road users and as such consume heaps of ACC money.


Well that happens to be a sad reality. Motorcycle accidents are disproportionally high for the number of motorcycles on the road compared to cars.

They reported that the incident rate for motorcycles has increased by 80% over the last few years and cost ACC something like 50million per year.

[quickbuck]

Me! But I'm approaching the problem from the other direction - it's a simple bolt-on kit to carry about 150kg of bricks and thereby bring the weight up to the required level. :wacko:

What, 820Kg of bricks on a CBR1000?

[Nick from the nick]

Just be glad that they haven't adopted the UK system of 125cc and a poor 12bhp

[dipshit]

They reported that the incident rate for motorcycles has increased by 80% over the last few years and cost ACC something like 50million per year.

Here's their article...
www.tv3.co.nz/News/NationalNews/Motorcyclerulesrevvedup/tabid/309/articleID/50758/cat/65/Default.aspx#video?articleID=50758

[Krayy]

The GN 250 has 130Kw per ton. It needs to be worked out wit the rider on it.
I wonder if they calculate this at the crank or at the wheel? And what the heck is this in HP?

Still a few bikes that you could kill yourself on it that list. All I can hope is that when they compile the list they actually talk to some people who know and ride bikes. Hang on, that's too much to ask..that common sense enter the equation from this govt.

[shingo]

I have a VTR250 for slightly over a week - and this happens.

Great. Just great.


I'm in the same situation, had my vtr since december and am wondering if i'm gonna keep it or not now. If the vfr400 makes the approved list i'm thinking they may be a good cheap alternative.

It wouldn't be so bad if they were to remove the curfew in place on L and R licenses. How is riding at 9:30pm any different than riding at 12am? It's dark at either time.

[McDuck]

I wonder if they calculate this at the crank or at the wheel? And what the heck is this in HP?

Still a few bikes that you could kill yourself on it that list. All I can hope is that when they compile the list they actually talk to some people who know and ride bikes. Hang on, that's too much to ask..that common sense enter the equation from this govt.

About 160 per ton if my math is correct.

[quickbuck]

What ammused me the most was this nice "New" high powered 250 in the article was actually a 1987 CBR250.
It was probibly on the floor for $6K.
In 1992 I wanted one at the high price on $5999!!!

If it is a modern high powered bike now, what was it then.

And sad fact is you can still ride it under the proposed law.

Crap article TV3.
Common sense approach government.. must be election year all right.

As said though, when the aussie bikers were first exposed to this they hated it.
I remember the magazine articles and the letters!

Now they embrace it.
Good to see our biker community (here) appears to embrace it too....
Well all except for those who have just bought a high priced 250.

[McJim]

I'm just glad I'm fat enough to ride a turboed Hayabusa on Nos on a learner licence :rofl:

[yungatart]

I'm just glad I'm fat enough to ride a turboed Hayabusa on Nos on a learner licence :rofl:

Sheeit!!!
Life must be good down there...I suggest less haggis and Whisky and more getting out on your pushie, ya big jessie!

[quickbuck]

Well, since I have lost 30kg in 2 years, now my CBR is de-restricted!

Yes, does awesome wheel-stands now.

Good thing I've had my full for 18 years!

[kiwifruit]

Well, since I have lost 30kg in 2 years, now my CBR is de-restricted!


great effort, congratulations! :rockon:

[Mikkel]

Bollocks it does. So johnny V8 has a mid-life crisis and decides to buy a GSXR1000. Splat. That's who are making huge dents in the accident stats.

At least have the common decency and read what you quote.

I wrote that I was all for the restricted period - limited power and no-pillion are the only two restrictions that makes sense!
All I said was that people with a full license should be excempt from the learners period - indeed IIRC you get your class 2 license with no learners period.

I'd be happy to accept a longer restricted period if I could avoid the learners.

Oh, and get rid of that ridiculous curfew - it just makes no fucking sense telling grown ups that they can not ride between 10 pm and 5 am. Especially since it get's dark way earlier than that anyway...

[Ixion]

On a point of information.The kilowatt/horsepower figures used will be those quoted by the manufacturers (now those inflated claims will come home to roost , eh?). Similarly, the weight used will be the manufacturers dry weight claim PLUS 90kg to allow for a nominal rider and fuel etc. And then some simple arithmetic.

The rego label will show "Learner Approved" or some such words.

There will be provision for people to apply to have a model of bike added to the approved list.

it is extremely unlikely that there will be any exemptions.

[Headbanger]

Interesting turn of events.

At least if I ever decide to get a bike licence I can park up the 1340 and jump on a 600......

[Dodger]

Now if only they would do the same to the Car learners market.
might stop the idiot boy racers with turbo powered cages.

[Ixion]

A very valid point. One concerning point about all this, is that it is an invidious distinction between motorcyclists and cagers. Cagers have NO capacity or weight / power restrictions. Why then should we ? Cagers will not have to wait 12 months on their R if over 25 . Why should we ?

Is it fair that motorcyclists should be singled out for more restrictive conditions than their four wheeled cousins ?

[RantyDave]

At least have the common decency and read what you quote.
I'd call "failure to communicate" on that one, actually. I thought you were referring to getting rid of the learner period entirely as well.

It does make you wonder what, under the new rules, the purpose of the restricted period actually is. Although a little "way point" half way through the learning period is probably still a good idea.

Dave

[RantyDave]

it is extremely unlikely that there will be any exemptions.
Yeah, they'll ditch exemptions entirely, eh? Would be the smart thing to do.

Dave

[RantyDave]

The rego label will show "Learner Approved" or some such words.
I also notice that the Aussie model has restricted versions of larger bikes for learners - a restricted monster 620 for instance, and (conspicuously) a restricted Hyosung 650 (called a GT650L). Presumably we are soon to be awash with newbies asking advice on removing their restrictors.

Oh, this is going to be fun.

Dave

[Mikkel]

I'd call "failure to communicate" on that one, actually. I thought you were referring to getting rid of the learner period entirely as well.

It does make you wonder what, under the new rules, the purpose of the restricted period actually is. Although a little "way point" half way through the learning period is probably still a good idea.

Dave

You're spot on about that - I want the learners period abolished for people already holding a full license.

But, I want the restricted to stay...

I don't see what the "way point" would accomplish. Just make some decent tests instead!


What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach - so we get what we had here last night. Which is the way he wanted it - well, he gets!

[homer]

Government announces (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0803/S00490.htm)new rules for motorcycles

Synopsis

The 250cc limit goes, replaced by the Australiam LAM list. Which is good in that learners will not be restricted to 250cc, bad in that the 250cc two strokes are forbidden. The list does include larger bikes , up to 660cc, but only specified (non sports) models. Based on 150kw / tonne.

25 demerits for not wearing a helemt (huh - when was the last time you ever anyone not wearing one ?)

3 year maximum on learners.

Compulsary headlights at all times

Over 25s now have to spend 12 months not 6 on restricted. But there is a vague mention of "competency based assessments " (The CBTA ?) and discounts for motorcycle specific courses

The 70kph learner limit goes. At last.


Raise in the minimum learner age form 15 to 16 still coming down the pike

not wearing a helmut wed night when i moved the bike about 20 meteres

[Ixion]

not wearing a helmut wed night when i moved the bike about 20 meteres

OH! . So this is all your fault !

[Horse]

Similarly, the weight used will be the manufacturers dry weight claim PLUS 90kg to allow for a nominal rider and fuel etc. And then some simple arithmetic.

That's interesting that they're including weight allowance for a rider. It's a pity then that the CC limit is 660 - the choice for cruiser enthusiasts is looking a bit slim frankly, but if it wasn't for the CC limit the Suzuki C50 Boulevards (805cc) would qualify - a C50T is 153kW/tonne without a rider according to my calculation, so would easily be under the limit with rider included.

[homer]

Yeah but whats ya gonna do .......lol
:headbang:

[Gubb]

That's interesting that they're including weight allowance for a rider. It's a pity then that the CC limit is 660 - the choice for cruiser enthusiasts is looking a bit slim frankly, but if it wasn't for the CC limit the Suzuki C50 Boulevards (805cc) would qualify - a C50T is 153kW/tonne without a rider according to my calculation, so would easily be under the limit with rider included.
There is a hell of a lot more option than the current system though.

One battle at a time.

[Horse]

There is a hell of a lot more option than the current system though.

Yeah, no argument there. It's definitely a positive move.

[RantyDave]

had my vtr since december and am wondering if i'm gonna keep it or not now.
If you're over 25 ... it's a year, yes? I'd keep it. By the time you're done pissing about ... selling one, buying another then your license period will be up and it'll be time to repeat the procedure. I also don't know if a VFR400 will still be inside the rules - they're kinda quick actually.

Other posters have done the math and suspect that a VTR is, at the very least, on the edge of being within the envelope described by the new rules so it seems unlikely that you'd get anything much faster. What you could get is something bigger, however.

Dave

[McJim]

Done a bit of calc on this one and I reckon all but the most aggresive 250s will be fine. If Ixion is correct (and he usually is) I reckon you can get up to 46 hp for a 140kg bike so that should suit ZXR and CBR 250 owners. The RG150 with it's 127kg would have an allowance of 43.5 hp.

RGV250, RS250, NSR250 and TZR250 owners will be proper facked though.

[RantyDave]

It's a pity then that the CC limit is 660 - the choice for cruiser enthusiasts is looking a bit slim frankly
Again, I bet we see the restricted version of the Hyosung 650 cruiser being packed into crates and sent to New Zealand very damn soon :)

Dave

[offrd]

Interesting...

Over the last few weeks i have been fighting with LTSA driver licencing over this exact thing, after having my exemtion for the cc rating declined i fought back and have been in discussons last week with GDLS Exemptions Business Support section who are reviewing the case and requested all sorts of stuff and i sent them all the information on the aussie system that looks to become law....:shit:

Sweeeet!

:woohoo:

[WelshWizard]

strange list, what nut thinks a DR650 is right for a learner, there MAD, the one I ride is front end light so you can barely give it any right hand with out it standing up and begging,
As this is Election year, is there even a chance of this getting through legislation before the election, sound like they are trying to grab some votes for the Election to me.

Believe it when its law not before.

[McJim]

I'm looking forward to picking up an Aprilia RS250 track day toy for around $5,000 or less:devil2:

[riffer]

A very valid point. One concerning point about all this, is that it is an invidious distinction between motorcyclists and cagers. Cagers have NO capacity or weight / power restrictions. Why then should we ? Cagers will not have to wait 12 months on their R if over 25 . Why should we ?

Is it fair that motorcyclists should be singled out for more restrictive conditions than their four wheeled cousins ?

I would suggest the answer to that lies in the first few paragraphs. 25% increase in motorcyclists. 80% increase in injury accidents.

When we start seeing similar figures from cagers then I believe there will be more of a case. Like it or not, motorcycles look dangerous ATM.

And I think they're spot on with the older riders needing more time on a learners. I came back to motorcycling from ten years away about 5 1/2 years ago and chose a 100+HP 750. With the benefit of hindsight I would say I would probably have been better off with a 400.

God forbid though that they should take your licence away from you if you don't own a motorcycle for a while.

But I definitely think there's benefit in testing at regular intervals. Perhaps as a punishment for bad driving/riding you could be forced to do a re-sit?

[Mikkel]

Done a bit of calc on this one and I reckon all but the most aggresive 250s will be fine. If Ixion is correct (and he usually is) I reckon you can get up to 46 hp for a 140kg bike so that should suit ZXR and CBR 250 owners. The RG150 with it's 127kg would have an allowance of 43.5 hp.

RGV250, RS250, NSR250 and TZR250 owners will be proper facked though.

I didn't think you could road registrer the RS250 in the first place!?!

But yeah, the pre-92 ZXR250s will be sweet. 149 kg + 90 kg for rider and fluids, 34 kW -> 143 kW/ton. So these will probably be the most sporty bikes you can get that'll meet the restrictions. I doubt prices will drop that much...


Believe it when its law not before.

As long as they wait until at least the 17th of June before bringing it in I couldn't care less. :yes:

[Horse]

Again, I bet we see the restricted version of the Hyosung 650 cruiser being packed into crates and sent to New Zealand very damn soon :)

Yeah, but while I love the look of the GV250, I'm spectacularly indifferent to the GV650. I just don't like it. Not fond of the real bikes it's modelled on either. What I'd love to see is Hyosung make a bigger engined version of the GV250 - same style, but more grunt. Not likely to happen, but it's nice to dream. :)

[McJim]

I didn't think you could road registrer the RS250 in the first place!?!

You're shitting me right? I've seen loads of those wee Italian Stallions on the open road with L plates on..60hp and a L plate....wow!


http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/SearchResults.aspx?searchType=0001-0026-1255-2509-&searchString=Rs250&searchRegion=100&type=Search

[dipshit]

When we start seeing similar figures from cagers then I believe there will be more of a case. Like it or not, motorcycles look dangerous ATM.


You're right. Whenever a group cause a blip on the radar statistically, then the spotlight comes on them.

Young drivers are starting to cause some pretty bad statistics with cars now too. Some of the things they are thinking of to combat this, is raising the driving age and introducing compulsory 3rd party insurance, so as to create some personal responsibility because the worse your driving record and the more you fall into the "risk group" the more you will have to pay.

[idleidolidyll]

Actually i reckon they're on the right track.

The 250 limit was always a farce when you could buy a really really wild bike like an RS250 aprilia that's bloody hard to ride as a novice.

in euroland they have horsepower limits and that's a better angle.

That said, they should do exactly the same with tin tops.
16 year olds in 300HP subarus are possibly the most dangerous things on the roads.

they should be limited to 70HP diahatsu miras etc

[Mikkel]

I'm looking forward to picking up an Aprilia RS250 track day toy for around $5,000 or less:devil2:

You know and I know that is unrealistic! Unless it's in absolute shambles you won't get an RS250 that cheap... Not matter what the license restrictions might be.


You're shitting me right? I've seen loads of those we Italian Stallions on the open road with L plates on..60hp and a L plate....wow!


http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/SearchResults.aspx?searchType=0001-0026-1255-2509-&searchString=Rs250&searchRegion=100&type=Search

True I had a brain fart - I was thinking about Hondas Grand Prix bike :yes:

And I agree - it's not a good choice for a first bike unless you have heaps of riding experience from somewhere else (and the discipline to not kill yourself!)!

[Mikkel]

Actually i reckon they're on the right track.

The 250 limit was always a farce when you could buy a really really wild bike like an RS250 aprilia that's bloody hard to ride as a novice.

in euroland they have horsepower limits and that's a better angle.

That said, they should do exactly the same with tin tops.
16 year olds in 300HP subarus are possibly the most dangerous things on the roads.

they should be limited to 70HP diahatsu miras etc

That would be easily solved by compulsory 3rd party insurance for *all* road vehicles. It would also solve the issue of young inexperienced riders picking up rice-rockets for their first motorcycle unless they have a good insurance history to sweeten the deal for the insurance company.

I am pretty confident that compulsory 3rd party insurance would solve a lot of the trouble that NZ has with regards to road tolls. (E.g. if you're a fuckwit driver with several incidents behind you - well then no insurance company will insure your precious piece of shit HSV (just an example - could be a ford for all I care) and your career as a road bully takes a drastic turn as you have to settle for sensible people movers like a standard toyota corolla (mind you, these are pretty damn good cars make no mistake about it!).

[onearmedbandit]

I didn't think you could road registrer the RS250 in the first place!?!




You're shitting me right? I've seen loads of those wee Italian Stallions on the open road with L plates on..60hp and a L plate....wow!




I think Mikkel was thinking of the Honda RS250, the two-stroke racer.

Honda RS250 (http://www.rscycles.com/Storefront/bikespecific/bike_pics/RS250R.jpg)

Aprilia RS250 (http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery/Aprilia%20RS250%2000.jpg)

[idleidolidyll]

That would be easily solved by compulsory 3rd party insurance for *all* road vehicles. It would also solve the issue of young inexperienced riders picking up rice-rockets for their first motorcycle unless they have a good insurance history to sweeten the deal for the insurance company.

I agree, in fact BOTH HP limits AND compulsory insurance are good ideas for cars and bikes

you need the other because there will always be spoilt brats with rich daddy's who don't care how much insurance costs

[musicman]

So... under this new system will there be a distinction between learner and restricted licences? At the moment the only distinctions are the L plate and the 70km/h limit (as far as I know, hope I'm not making a fool of myself by forgetting something) so if they get rid of the 70km/h limit, wouldn't they just be the same?

Also yeah the curfew is dumb, personally I think riding around town late at night is much safer than in the day! Almost non-existent traffic and it being dark means it's easy to see headlights.

[Mikkel]

I agree, in fact BOTH HP limits AND compulsory insurance are good ideas for cars and bikes

you need the other because there will always be spoilt brats with rich daddy's who don't care how much insurance costs

Indeed - compulsory 3rd party to insure a general level of sanity in how this stuff works.

Power limit to prevent rich parents with a guilty conscience spoiling their kids by giving them too powerful toys and insuring them in their own name!

[McJim]

You know and I know that is unrealistic! Unless it's in absolute shambles you won't get an RS250 that cheap... Not matter what the license restrictions might be.

Laws of supply and demand mate. 2 Stroke 250s are the way people get maximum performance for their licence class. This loophole now closes so you will need a full licence to ride a 2T 250 right? If you have a full licence why get a 60hp 2T for $10,000 if you can get a 90hp+ 4T 600 for the same money (or less)?

You would have to be someone like me who is more concerned with handling than power and too many people have been brainwashed by the Japanese marketeers and are fixated with hp at the crank.

[chanceyy]

Motorcycle safety package aims to cut crash rate

Hon Minister Duynhoven
Minister for Transport Safety

28 March 2008 Media Statement

Motorcycle safety package aims to cut high crash rate


The Government has announced a range of measures to reduce the
high number of motorcycle casualties on New Zealand roads.
Transport Safety Minister, Harry Duynhoven, says far too many
novice motorcyclists, particularly in the over-30 age group,
are involved in crashes.

"Since 2001, there has been a 28 percent increase in licensed
motorcycles, and this figure is expected to grow with predicted
rising fuel costs. But over the same period, there has been
a staggering 80 percent increase in motorcycle casualties.

"The package of initiatives signed off by Cabinet aims to address
this major road safety problem and to cut the high crash risk
of novice riders," says Mr Duynhoven.

The motorcycle safety proposals form part of the implementation
of the Road Safety to 2010 Strategy. They include restrictions
on the use of powerful motorcycles by novice riders, changes
to the Graduated Driver Licensing System to encourage riders
to take up more motorcycle-specific training and the introduction
of safer motorcyling practices such as improving the visibility
of motorcycle and moped riders to other road users.

"These proposals clearly target novice motorcyclists because
these riders face the greatest crash risk. They are paying far
too high a price - in 2007, motorcyclists and pillions accounted
for 10 percent of all road fatalities.

"I am confident there will be strong support for the initiatives
as they address many of the issues raised in the "See You There...Safe
As!" public consultation programme run in 2006," says Minister
Duynhoven.

One of the key issues arising from the public consultation concerned
the Graduated Driver Licensing System.

The package aimed at novice riders proposes restricting learner
and restricted motorcycle licence holders to less powerful motorcycles.
It also offers further training incentives to novice riders
to progress through their licence and puts a cap on the time
riders can spend on a learner licence.

In keeping with government proposals to shift the focus away
from fines to increased demerit points for lawbreaking motorists,
motorcyclists will run the risk of 25 demerit points for not
wearing a helmet.

"The emphasis is on ensuring novice motorcyclists are aware
of the increased risks they face on the road and that these riders
are well equipped for the responsibility of motorcycle ownership,"
says Mr Duynhoven.

The public will have the opportunity to comment on the proposed
changes towards the middle of this year as part of the Land Transport
Rules consultation process.

--

Questions and Answers - Motorcycle Safety Initiatives

1. What are the new proposals?

The proposals are to:

- Improve the safety of novice riders by restricting learner
and restricted motorcycle licence holders to motorcycles which
do not exceed a power-to-weight ratio of 150 kilowatts per tonne.
This is required because technological developments have meant
the current 250cc restriction allows motorcycles which are very
powerful. In addition to the power-to-weight limit an upper limit
of 660cc is proposed to ensure that the approved motorcycles
are not too physically large for novice riders;

- Encourage the uptake of rider training by amending the Graduated
Driver Licensing System (GDLS) for motorcyclists so an approved
motorcycle-specific training course completed in the learner
licence phase reduces the time spent on a restricted motorcycle
licence by six months;

- Introduce a motorcycle-specific competency based assessment
option as an alternative to the restricted and full licence tests
for those riders that undertake an approved motorcycle-specific
training course in the learner licence phase;

- Encourage progression through the GDLS by introducing a maximum
three year validity period for all learner motorcycle licences;

- Remove the 70km/h speed limit restriction which currently applies
to learner motorcycle licence holders. This restriction is largely
ignored. When this speed restriction is adhered to it creates
a large difference in the speed of vehicles travelling on the
open road, which is a known road safety problem. Road safety
research indicates this speed difference issue outweighs any
benefit of lower open road speed limits for novice motorcycle
riders;

- Increase compliance with the motorcycle helmet requirement
by introducing 25 demerit points and reducing the level of fine
from $150 to $50 for helmet incorrect and non-wearing offences;

- Improve the visibility of motorcycle and moped riders by introducing
a requirement for all motorcycle and moped riders to have daytime
running lights or their headlights on at all times when riding
on the road; and

- Reduce the level of risk for novice motorcyclists over the
age of 25 by increasing the minimum time period these motorcyclists
spend on a restricted licence from six to twelve months.

2. Why are these changes needed?

Motorcycle casualties (fatalities plus serious and minor injuries)
have grown significantly since 2001. While some growth in casualties
might have been expected as a result of the 28 percent increase
in licensed motorcycles over the same period, it is very concerning
that the casualty increase is so large. Furthermore the cost
of fuel has risen, and is likely to remain high, so motorcycle
ownership and use is likely to increase further. It is important
that best practice motorcycle safety initiatives are put in place
now to deal with this growing road safety problem.

3. Where have these best practice motorcycle initiatives come
from?

The majority of the GDLS proposals are based on a best practice
model for motorcycle licensing and training created by Monash
University in Melbourne. In the development of this model Monash
reviewed the motorcycle licensing and training systems in Australia,
the United Kingdom, parts of Europe and the U.S.A. The model
is based on the premise that motorcycle riding requires higher
levels of both vehicle control and cognitive skills than car
driving and that the potential outcomes of any failure on the
part of the rider, other road users, or the road environment
are severe. It states that in order to achieve substantial improvements
in the safety of motorcycling, the rider training and licensing
systems may need to be quite different than those for cars. New
Zealand already has aspects of the model in place, including
a Basic Motorcycle Handling Skills Test to obtain a learner licence.


There were also a couple of other specific motorcycle safety
issues emerging outside of the licensing and training systems
that needed a policy response.

[devnull]

Well, they trotted out 25% increase in motorcyclists. 80% increase in injury accidents...

I'd be extremely interested to see if there's a correlation with the increase of cages on the roads, and of that 80% injury increase, what percentage of them was due to the rider.

Why am I asking? Simply because if 79% of those injuries were caused by a dipshit in a cage, then clearly driver education and policing aren't working. So they could try doing something that a govt normally never does - address the root cause of the problem

I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen though....

[chanceyy]

4. Why have the specific limits of 150 kilowatts per tonne for
power-to-weight and 660cc for engine capacity been chosen as
a replacement for the current 250cc restriction for novice motorcyclists?


The limits are the same as those used for the Learner Approved
Motorcycle Scheme (LAMS), which was first introduced in New South
Wales (NSW) and has now been duplicated in a number of other
Australian states. In terms of ease of implementation and working
with bike importers and distributors the most expedient option
for New Zealand is to also duplicate the NSW LAMS model and use
their approved list of motorcycles. This scheme has been researched
thoroughly and has proved popular with the local motorcycling
community.

5. What role have motorcyclists played in the development of
these proposals?

In 2006, the Ministry of Transport organised a series of nationwide
public workshops to get public input into what were the road
safety priorities, and how these could be better addressed. The
See You There ... Safe As! campaign attracted a lot of interest
and from this, and other information collected, a draft policy
statement was produced last December. Some of the proposals stem
directly from feedback motorcyclists gave at the Safe As workshops
and on the Safe As Community web-based forum. For example, removing
the 70km/h speed limit for learner motorcyclists and replacing
the 250cc restriction with a power-to-weight restriction for
novice motorcyclists.

Key motorcycle stakeholders have been consulted through the Motorcycle
Safety Reference Group, which is convened by the Accident Compensation
Corporation (ACC). The reference group involves the motorcycling
industry, manufacturers, retailers, trainers and motorcycle interest
groups. The group broadly supports the proposals.

6. Will there be any exemptions to the requirement for all motorcycle
and moped riders to have daytime running lights or their headlights
on at all times when riding on the road?

Consideration will be given to exempting motorcycles or mopeds
over forty years old from this requirement as some older electrical
charging systems (generators) do not have the capacity to reliably
produce the power necessary to operate headlamps continuously.

7. The proposals mainly focus on novice motorcyclists, what about
continuing and returning riders?

The proposals mainly focus on novice motorcyclists as they face
the greatest crash risk, a growing portion of which are in the
over 30 age group. However, there is a cross-government agency
motorcycle safety group led by the Ministry of Transport that
is examining non-legislative safety initiatives that will benefit
all motorcycle and moped riders. This includes possible infrastructure
improvements, education and enforcement activities.

ACC also plays a significant role in terms of promoting motorcycle
safety for continuing and returning riders through the provision
of education material (e.g. http://www.rideforever.co.nz/) and
the funding of research.

8. What else is happening that will have an impact on motorcycle
safety?

A Bill which proposes raising the minimum driving age from 15
to 16 has been introduced to Parliament and is currently before
the Transport and Industrial Relations Select Committee for consideration.
Late last year the Government also announced a package of road
safety measures focussing on:
- changes to the current penalty regime, and in particular the
demerit system;
- changes to the penalty regime for people caught speeding by
police officers;
- the introduction of demerit points for offences relating to
intersections; and
- a package of proposals aimed at reducing the high crash risk
to young and novice drivers.
These measures build on proposals announced recently to reduce
the blood alcohol content limit to zero for drivers under 20
who do not hold a full licence. All of these changes will automatically
apply to motorcyclists and moped riders and will assist in reducing
the risk of this road user group.

Requiring all mopeds to be inspected before registration is currently
being considered as part of a review of low powered vehicles.
Restricting moped riders with learner and restricted car driver
licences from carrying pillion passengers is to be included in
the Land Transport (Driver Licensing) Amendment Rule 2008.


When will the changes occur?

The proposals will require changes to the Land Transport Driver
Licensing and Road User rules and Land Transport Offences and
Penalties Regulations. Amendments to these are included in the
07/08 rules programme and there will be a chance to comment on
the proposals as part of the rules consultation process.

9. Where can I get further information?

The Regulatory Impact Statement is published on the Ministry
of Transport's website: http://www.transport.govt.nz/ris-bccs/


In terms of the current licensing requirements for motorcyclists,
go to: http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/licensing/motorcycle/index.html

For information on the important role ACC plays in promoting
motorcycle safety, including a link to the educative material
they provide to riders, refer to:
http://www.acc.co.nz/injury-prevention/road-safety/WCM001268
and http://www.rideforever.co.nz/

Monash University Review of motorcycle licensing and training:
http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/muarc240.pdf

[idleidolidyll]

You would have to be someone like me who is more concerned with handling than power and too many people have been brainwashed by the Japanese marketeers and are fixated with hp at the crank.

that's true Jim; but leaving the nice handlers to you, me and a few others in the know isn't such a bad thing.

I like nothing more than embarrassing litre sport bikes on 'gutless' good handling bikes.

[LilSel]

My bike isnt on that list :( (why not?? its not got lots of horsies?)
Is restricted the same as 'learners' on this new rule??

Thankfully Im sitting my full on monday & will be selling mine soon anyways:whocares:

[homer]

The 150kW/tonne limit seems a little low ... seems to me the VTR250 and the new ninja (and probably the old gpx) will both fail that test - they seem plenty tame enough to me.

Good news for Hyosung, I guess.

Richard

can someone put in words whats 150kw/ tonne is exactly

a gsx600 is about 59 kw weighs about 180 kg
so it wont make it as a learner bike ?

[McJim]

I like nothing more than embarrassing litre sport bikes on 'gutless' good handling bikes.
Yeah, you like fine handling bikes coz you know what to do with 'em. I on the other hand need a sweet handling ride coz I'm a noobie and a bit shit. :rofl:

[McJim]

can someone put in words whats 150kw/ tonne is exactly

a gsx600 is about 59 kw weighs about 180 kg
so it wont make it as a learner bike ?

hmmm yeah well 180 goes into 1000 over 5.5 times and 59kw times 5.5 is 219kw per tonne.

[Mikkel]

Laws of supply and demand mate. 2 Stroke 250s are the way people get maximum performance for their licence class. This loophole now closes so you will need a full licence to ride a 2T 250 right? If you have a full licence why get a 60hp 2T for $10,000 if you can get a 90hp+ 4T 600 for the same money (or less)?

You would have to be someone like me who is more concerned with handling than power and too many people have been brainwashed by the Japanese marketeers and are fixated with hp at the crank.

I also believe in supply and demand - but as the license restrictions change I think you'll find that the demand will drop as well.

I wasn't saying that the prices on 2-stroke 250 ccms isn't going to drop - just that $5,000 for a nice machine will still be unrealistic.

You forget that a properly tuned and maintained RS250 will be about as fast around a track (bar the straight) as a 600 ccm sports bike - and probably more fun as well.

So unless you expect the entire market to shift down dramatically with these new laws I think you'll be looking long and hard for a nice 2-stroke 250 ccm for less than $7,500 (we're talking the 60+ hps here of course, not the restricted ones).

[onearmedbandit]

that's true Jim; but leaving the nice handlers to you, me and a few others in the know isn't such a bad thing.

I like nothing more than embarrassing litre sport bikes on 'gutless' good handling bikes.

Interesting you say that. One of the British bike rags tested a 400 vs 600 vs 1000 vs Buell. The 400 was not a better handling bike then the late model 600 or thou, although this could be partly attributed to tired suspension. Regardless, late model 600's are not much heavier than a 250 two stroke and have far superior suspenders front and rear. I'd say that once again it comes down to the pilot.

[Motu]

Or an MV Agusta 350!


Have you ridden one? I rode a nearly new one,and they weren't that fast...faster than a CB350,but not as fast as an RD350.Handling was a different story altogether - but they aren't classifying learner bikes on handling ability.

I think this is all good,should of been done decades ago - pity so many idiots had to kill themselves before there was any action.I wonder if those in power ever read these forums?

[idleidolidyll]

Interesting you say that. One of the British bike rags tested a 400 vs 600 vs 1000 vs Buell. The 400 was not a better handling bike then the late model 600 or thou, although this could be partly attributed to tired suspension. Regardless, late model 600's are not much heavier than a 250 two stroke and have far superior suspenders front and rear. I'd say that once again it comes down to the pilot.

the problem is you're comparing the wrong bikes. Most 400's are heavy as hell.

I'm talking thumpers and light 2 strokes and they are WAY lighter than 600s

The trouble is the lies the japs tell you. 'Dry' weight is ridiculous. Honda have offered 160ish for their 600 but admitted that it's actually 189kg ready to ride.

A KTM Duke is 152kg ready to ride and has way better suspension than most jappas.
the 'prilia RS250 is also light and well sprung.

but please, lets not digress too much; this is a good thread about legislation.

I applaud the gummint for the initiative but ONLY if htey extend it to cars too and make insurance compulsory.

Mikkel is right on the money

[jrandom]

My bike isnt on that list :( (why not?? its not got lots of horsies?)

Your bike is a two fiddy, so it's good to go.

If you re-read the list carefully, you'll see that it's

- "All bikes of 250 cc and under, except for these two-stroke race reps"; plus

- "This 'ere list of bigger bikes that ain't too fast".

:niceone:

[Ixion]

Laws of supply and demand mate. 2 Stroke 250s are the way people get maximum performance for their licence class. This loophole now closes so you will need a full licence to ride a 2T 250 right? If you have a full licence why get a 60hp 2T for $10,000 if you can get a 90hp+ 4T 600 for the same money (or less)?

You would have to be someone like me who is more concerned with handling than power and too many people have been brainwashed by the Japanese marketeers and are fixated with hp at the crank.

Indeed. What sane person would want an unreliable temperamental expensive to run 250cc when they can have a nice reliable sensible 600cc 4 stroke that produces more horsepower. You'd have to be a homo or a nana to choose a bike with less horsepower and less cc.

RS250s, they won't be able to give them away. Glut on the market, selling for scrap metal prices that's what they'll be in a few months.

Any wise RS250 owners will start to shift them ASAP for whatever they can get.
Just only because I'm a benevolent philanthropist I might be persuaded (much against my better judgement) to help out any unlucky two stroke 250 owners.

[idleidolidyll]

I also believe in supply and demand - but as the license restrictions change I think you'll find that the demand will drop as well.

I wasn't saying that the prices on 2-stroke 250 ccms isn't going to drop - just that $5,000 for a nice machine will still be unrealistic.

You forget that a properly tuned and maintained RS250 will be about as fast around a track (bar the straight) as a 600 ccm sports bike - and probably more fun as well.

So unless you expect the entire market to shift down dramatically with these new laws I think you'll be looking long and hard for a nice 2-stroke 250 ccm for less than $7,500 (we're talking the 60+ hps here of course, not the restricted ones).

The 250 market has been hideously OVERPRICED for years because of the dumb rules. I see this as a smart move all round that will make entering the motorcycle market more fun, safer AND cheaper.

[jrandom]

Have you ridden one? I rode a nearly new one,and they weren't that fast...

Gosh, no. I'd quite like a go on one, if only to be able to say that I had.

I wouldn't imagine that anyone would dream of owning one and using it as a learner bike; surely running examples in good condition would be worth significant sums of money these days?

[jrandom]

Indeed. What sane person would want an unreliable temperamental expensive to run 250cc when they can have a nice reliable sensible 600cc 4 stroke that produces more horsepower.

imdying would, but then he's not really all that sane.

[LilSel]

- "This 'ere list of bigger bikes that ain't too fast".

:niceone:

ohhh.... :doh:... lol.... Thanks :apint:

[Trouser]

I hope there is going to be a serious revision of those aussie lams approved bikes if we are going to use that list here? It neglects to mention many many bikes we get over here.

[Mikkel]

I think this is all good,should of been done decades ago - pity so many idiots had to kill themselves before there was any action.I wonder if those in power ever read these forums?

Surely, if it was only the idiots and they did it to themselves - who are we to complain?

Noone but the rider chooses to crank that throttle... Any death attributed to people riding bikes that are beyond their skills can not possibly be blamed on anyone but the rider! Unfortunate circumstances are equally dangerous to small and big bikes alike - poor judgement goes from being dangerous to suicidal when you're on a powerful bike.


Mikkel is right on the money

As always. :yes:

Fuck me, that's the wine talking. Be gentle :baby:


The 250 market has been hideously OVERPRICED for years because of the dumb rules. I see this as a smart move all round that will make entering the motorcycle market more fun, safer AND cheaper.

Indeed - but while some people think that the prices are going to drop by a large amount almost instantly I don't agree.

There aren't that many nice 250 ccm sportsbikes around and they will still be worth a bit of coin. What will suffer are the ones that are rough as guts and/or in the low-performance segments (GNs et al.).
That's my prediction anyway - we'll have to wait and see how things goes. :yes:

[idleidolidyll]

I hope there is going to be a serious revision of those aussie lams approved bikes if we are going to use that list here? It neglects to mention many many bikes we get over here.

isn't that the kind of thing MNZ should be helping with?

[idleidolidyll]

Surely, if it was only the idiots and they did it to themselves - who are we to complain?

Noone but the rider chooses to crank that throttle... Any death attributed to people riding bikes that are beyond their skills can not possibly be blamed on anyone but the rider! Unfortunate circumstances are equally dangerous to small and big bikes alike - poor judgement goes from being dangerous to suicidal when you're on a powerful bike.



As always. :yes:

Fuck me, that's the wine talking. Be gentle :baby:



Indeed - but while some people think that the prices are going to drop by a large amount almost instantly I don't agree.

There aren't that many nice 250 ccm sportsbikes around and they will still be worth a bit of coin. What will suffer are the ones that are rough as guts and/or in the low-performance segments (GNs et al.).
That's my prediction anyway - we'll have to wait and see how things goes. :yes:


sure, it won't be an overnight drop because people will want to recoup as much as possible for their bikes. However, it will gradually reduce prices and there will be SOME instant bargains.

The thing that'll save the GN250's of this world are its cheap price, its passive nature and the fact that short blokes and chicks can ride em and not be intimidated as they can get both feet down flat.

the rough as guts ones might end up on the scrapheap where they belong

[Mekk]

A very valid point. One concerning point about all this, is that it is an invidious distinction between motorcyclists and cagers. Cagers have NO capacity or weight / power restrictions. Why then should we ? Cagers will not have to wait 12 months on their R if over 25 . Why should we ?

Is it fair that motorcyclists should be singled out for more restrictive conditions than their four wheeled cousins ?

I may be holding our politicians too highly here but if this goes well and stats improve, could they use it as good grounds for introducing it to boy racers/cages?

I know that introducing it to the car community would piss a lot more people off. You'd get the whiners on the benefit on Campbell Live saying how the government has destroyed their only method of transport etc etc.

The four-wheeled community really doesn't care as much as we do about the benefits of restrictions like these. At least most of the car petrolheads I talk to don't...

[Mikkel]

the rough as guts ones might end up on the scrapheap where they belong

Yay, there may still be a future for the few nice ZXR250As then... Parts are not that easy to come by. A number of the rougher ones ending up in the scrapyards may solve that problem :niceone:

[MVnut]

Hope the govt eventually follow Aussie on the 'turning left gives way' rule. NZ adopted this soon after Oz. Oz repealed this 9 months later because it doesn't work, did NZ follow their advise........no:jerry:

[sinned]

Indeed - but while some people think that the prices are going to drop by a large amount almost instantly I don't agree.

There aren't that many nice 250 ccm sportsbikes around and they will still be worth a bit of coin. What will suffer are the ones that are rough as guts and/or in the low-performance segments (GNs et al.).
That's my prediction anyway - we'll have to wait and see how things goes. :yes:

My prediction is bike importers will be adjusting their forward orders as I we debate this. Few if any 250s will be imported until the demand for them is known, current stock of 250s will be discounted and as the legal changes are made bikes nearer the limits will come onto the shop floor at higher prices.

[McJim]

My prediction is bike importers will be adjusting their forward orders as I we debate this. Few if any 250s will be imported until the demand for them is known, current stock of 250s will be discounted and as the legal changes are made bikes nearer the limits will come onto the shop floor at higher prices.

It only affects the real crotch rockets. 2 strokes. Most of the good 2T two fiddies are already in the country. I predict the price of Monster 400s are gonna rocket and we'll see ample supply of those bastards before too long.....good job too as they would make a fantastic learner bike. That and the Buell Blast.

[Motu]

Surely, if it was only the idiots and they did it to themselves - who are we to complain?



Fuck me, that's the wine talking.


You are reading this thread,or has the wine taken over? The ACC and Mr Duynhoven are complaining,and are going to do something about it.That's what this discussion is all about - the proposed changes in regulations.

[quickbuck]

If you're over 25 ... it's a year, yes? I'd keep it. By the time you're done pissing about ... selling one, buying another then your license period will be up and it'll be time to repeat the procedure. I also don't know if a VFR400 will still be inside the rules - they're kinda quick actually.

Dave

Um... 40kw for a tired one.... So long as it weighs 266kg, it should be right...
I think they are 45kw though.... So 300kg? Fat rider!

[Mikkel]

You are reading this thread,or has the wine taken over? The ACC and Mr Duynhoven are complaining,and are going to do something about it.That's what this discussion is all about - the proposed changes in regulations.

The wine took over a while ago (as in years). :yes:

I'm not complaining about what they are trying to do about it - as long as they give me approximately 3 months time to get my full I'm a happy camper.

There are, as most people on here are likely to agree, a lot of the "old rules" that make no sense. This new initiative makes an effort to improve these, and as such I think it is generally a good thing.

On the other hand I'm not caught up in religious denial - as such I must say I'm prepared to fight for whatever natural selection that is indeed left in this existance, going down the drain.

[quickbuck]

that's true Jim; but leaving the nice handlers to you, me and a few others in the know isn't such a bad thing.

I like nothing more than embarrassing litre sport bikes on 'gutless' good handling bikes.

Ditto, hence a 16 year old classic for me...

Okay, no handling either by todays standards, but even more embarrising to lord flash wad...

[quickbuck]

I hope there is going to be a serious revision of those aussie lams approved bikes if we are going to use that list here? It neglects to mention many many bikes we get over here.

I'm pretty sure they will Trouser.

You will be safe on your CB anyway ;)

Great part of being here is we are actually spoilt for choice in some respects due to the imports.

I'm picking they will go through the same process as the aussies did, and get a list of all VINNED in the past 20 odd years, and put a Y or N beside it.

Cracked me up though, as you aren't allowed a TZ 250, but an RD350 is sweet?
Well... as said, if you want to chuck all your money into working your bike, then good luck to you...
It could easily happen now anyway....
As you said, Turbo the CB ;)

[karla]

sure, it won't be an overnight drop because people will want to recoup as much as possible for their bikes. However, it will gradually reduce prices and there will be SOME instant bargains.



For sale, one barely used GN250 .... one woman rider, never taken out in the cold.

Would like to keep but more recent model is high maintenance and demands lots of attention ~

contact me for instant bargain :niceone:.

[TLMAN]

Government announces (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0803/S00490.htm)
25 demerits for not wearing a helemt (huh - when was the last time you ever anyone not wearing one ?)

Funny you should mention that, I saw an Indian guy blasting down my street on a black R6 not wearing a helmut the other day!!!:Pokey:

[McDuck]

This should be fantastic. But the bummer is my 250 is now worth a little less than fuck all.

[Ixion]

For sale, one barely used GN250 .... one woman rider, never taken out in the cold.

Would like to keep but more recent model is high maintenance and demands lots of attention ~

contact me for instant bargain :niceone:.

The Ginnys won't be much affected. people buy them becaus ethey are cheap and cheerful.

What will be affected are the 250s that people have paid a heavy premium for because they are bikes that could give boi-racer performance within the 250cc limit.

Now the boi-racers turned bikiboi will buy a larger machine and the hot stuff 250s will be a drug on the market :Punk:


cos the sensible folk who buy for economy and easy to rideness won;t look at them (a Scorpio is still less than 4K new); and the bikibois wont look at them cos no matter how fast it is point to point , only 250 is total loss of street cred.

[Squiggles]

This will make it interesting, might just be able to snag myself an rgv again

I dont think it'll change that much with the cbr's etc still being the sportiest of the bikes (the current lams list is here but i bet its been posted already: http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/tests/motorcycleridertrainingscheme/motorcyclesnoviceriders.html )

Ill keep my $300 gn's, they aint going to depreciate. Might hurt the 250 tourer market, but the sports side will be relatively ok i think.

[Rogue]

I cant beleive it the govt has made a good decision for once:woohoo:

However I cant help but shudder when they say motocyclists have 10% of the accidents. Whats coming next?
Due to the ACC having no blame how many of the 10% of motocycle accidents are off roaders or caused by the inatention of a tin top driver ahh :whocares:

Might be able to get me a cheep RS250 soon :headbang:

[MaxB]

I don't know if anyone has thought of this but combining compulsdory t.p. insurance with a list of approved learner bikes is asking for trouble. Of course we can trust the Govt and big business not to fuck with the cost of biking and the premiums of compulsory insurance. (Tui ad).

All I know is that in places that have compulsory insurance it is more expensive than places that don't. Plus in places that have lists of approved bikes those bike prices are inflated to "fit" the market. A mate in Germany pays about $11k for his legal learner big single bike and $1-2k insurance. The derestricted version is $9k.

[Mikkel]

I don't know if anyone has thought of this but combining compulsdory t.p. insurance with a list of approved learner bikes is asking for trouble. Of course we can trust the Govt and big business not to fuck with the cost of biking and the premiums of compulsory insurance. (Tui ad).

If you can not afford 3rd party insurance - you should not be on the road in the first place!

We all make mistakes, fair enough if you want to gamble what YOU can afford - but that doesn't give you any right to damage MY property!

[Kickaha]

25 demerits for not wearing a helemt (huh - when was the last time you ever anyone not wearing one ?)

1989, I got a ticket for $50 for not wearing one



I am pretty confident that compulsory 3rd party insurance would solve a lot of the trouble that NZ has with regards to road tolls.

I'm fairly confident the insurance companies would shaft us on the cost of 3rd party


Indeed. What sane person would want an unreliable temperamental expensive to run 250cc

I would


Hope the govt eventually follow Aussie on the 'turning left gives way' rule. NZ adopted this soon after Oz. Oz repealed this 9 months later because it doesn't work, did NZ follow their advise........no:jerry:

A rule I find quite easy to follow, but a lot of people don't seem to know how it works


If you can not afford 3rd party insurance - you should not be on the road in the first place!

Costs me a whole $27 a year

[Mikkel]

I'm fairly confident the insurance companies would shaft us on the cost of 3rd party

This is where the free market will save our asses... :yes: Costs might increase slightly - or they might decrease slighly. It's hard to tell - but one thing is quite certain, 3rd party insurance wouldn't go through the roof!


Costs me a whole $27 a year

Wow, that's not a lot. What are you insuring and with who?

[Bob]

The NZ government is proposing a raft of new legislation to reduce accident levels.

The measures including restricting the use of powerful motorcycles by novice riders and setting a three-year maximum validity period for all learner motorcycle licences.

Transport Safety Minister Harry Duynhoven announced the following key proposals:

* Learner and restricted motorcycle licence holders would only be able to ride motorcycles which did not exceed a power-to-weight ratio of 150 kilowatts per tonne and were not too physically large for rider;

* changing the Graduated Driver Licensing System (GDLS) to reduce the restricted motorcycle licence period by six months for riders who completed approved motorcycle-specific training courses;

* introducing a motorcycle-specific competency assessment option as an alternative to the restricted and full licence tests for riders that did an approved motorcycle-specific training course in the learner licence phase;

* setting a maximum three-year validity period for all learner motorcycle licences;

* removing the 70km/h speed limit restriction - which applies to learner motorcycle licence holders;

* introducing 25 demerit points for not wearing helmets but reducing the level of fine from $150 to $50;

* requiring daytime running on headlights at all times; and

* increasing the minimum time period motorcyclists over 25 spend on a restricted licence from six to 12 months.

Mr Duynhoven also repeated his view that compulsory third party insurance was needed.

[CookMySock]

We all make mistakes, fair enough if you want to gamble what YOU can afford - but that doesn't give you any right to damage MY property!you are covered by your insurance.. thats what you BUY it for.

DB

[CookMySock]

but one thing is quite certain, 3rd party insurance wouldn't go through the roof!like it didn't in the UK ? I think you will be rudely surprised.

DB

[Kickaha]

but one thing is quite certain, 3rd party insurance wouldn't go through the roof!

I bet you $50 there will be a substantial increase if it is made compulsory



Wow, that's not a lot. What are you insuring and with who?

1983 750 Katana with AMI


like it didn't in the UK ? I think you will be rudely surprised.

DB I know he will be

[Padmei]

this is great as my wife expressed interest inlearning to ride my gb 400tt when I get my new KLR650. As it is registered as a cb400f for some reason she won't need to buy a new bike. Excellent.

[Grahameeboy]

Great idea...makes progression to more powerful bikes better...

[JimO]

This should be fantastic. But the bummer is my 250 is now worth a little less than fuck all.

i will give you $375.66 for it

[Mikkel]

you are covered by your insurance.. thats what you BUY it for.

DB

I pay my premium to cover MY fuck-ups - not to take responsibility for everyone else on the road.

There is a distinction, and I do believe it is important.


like it didn't in the UK ? I think you will be rudely surprised.

DB

There is a part of the equation that may not be too obvious: if everyone has to have insurance everyone will be putting money into the collective pot that is there to save our asses. Currently a lot of insurance companies will have to pay out when their client is not at fault since the perpetrator of the accident does not have insurance - then the company will have to get the money of Joe Average to cover their expenses, which does not always happen.

But yes, it will be impossible (ridiculously expensive) for a young guy to insure highly-tuned Skyline GT-R for example. But let's see how long it'll take before something is obviously reasonable is implemented here in NZ - I for one am not going to hold my breath.

[skaz]

http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10500855

[TerminalAddict]

see here:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=70332

[Japtwin]

Who caught the TV3 news item on this last night? Funny back up segment where they interviewed a relative of 'Grim' the guy who died going through a brick wall in Glenfield. She was of th eopinion that the new changes wouldn't save lives. Well probably not his. I'd be interested to see the sort of legislation that would combat that type of incident.

My little friend who has just purchased an RGV is a tad nervous.
At 150KW per tonne there are going to be a lot of 250s excluded?

[Japtwin]

If you can not afford 3rd party insurance - you should not be on the road in the first place!

We all make mistakes, fair enough if you want to gamble what YOU can afford - but that doesn't give you any right to damage MY property!

Thats crazy logic. If you are insured you are covered, getting the money out of an uninsured rider is the insurance companies problem. No way should insurance be compulsory the insurance pricks make enough money as it is. Its an industry based on fear.

[Mikkel]

Thats crazy logic. If you are insured you are covered, getting the money out of an uninsured rider is the insurance companies problem. No way should insurance be compulsory the insurance pricks make enough money as it is. Its an industry based on fear.

Absolute bullshit.

Insurance is not about fear - and not having insurance is not about living in fear either or any other sort of rubbish people sometimes spew forth.

Having insurance is accepting that shit WILL happen eventually - not wanting to face, accept or prepare for that eventuality is quite simply sticking your head in the sand!

[quickbuck]

Who caught the TV3 news item on this last night? Funny back up segment where they interviewed a relative of 'Grim' the guy who died going through a brick wall in Glenfield. She was of th eopinion that the new changes wouldn't save lives. Well probably not his. I'd be interested to see the sort of legislation that would combat that type of incident.


Well, that's right.
There are always exceptions to every rule... and sometimes there is no helping some people.

The fact remains, you can die on a scooter... people have.

[Radar]

bah, just read 2010..... i will have my full by then anyway.

I don't think it means we have to wait until 2010 for the new rules to take place. 2010 is just the name of the overall plan:

"The motorcycle safety proposals form part of the implementation of the Road Safety to 2010 Strategy. They include restrictions on the use of powerful motorcycles by novice riders... "

WHEN will the new rules take effect? Someone on this thread said the end of this year - although I have not yet read all posts on this huge thread so maybe I missed it.

[Edit] Found this but still clear as mud:

"When will the changes occur?
The proposals will require changes to the Land Transport Driver Licensing and Road User rules and Land Transport Offences and Penalties Regulations. Amendments to these are included in the 07/08 rules programme and there will be a chance to comment on the proposals as part of the rules consultation process."
Source: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0803/S00490.htm

[scumdog]

They will run the number plate before they even start talking to you. What it is registered as will be what counts.

Don't bust their bubble..

[scumdog]

Interesting turn of events.

At least if I ever decide to get a bike licence I can park up the 1340 and jump on a 600......

Speaking of which; - the list is a bit harsh for the wannabe Harley owner, after all, EVERYBODY knows they only have about 40hp, all of 'em apparently so why aren't they all on the list??

[Steam]

Speaking of which; - the list is a bit harsh for the wannabe Harley owner, after all, EVERYBODY knows they only have about 40hp, all of 'em apparently so why aren't they all on the list??

Because there's a proposed 650cc limit for the learner list, apparently so learners aren't overwhelmed by a too-heavy bike. Er... assuming your question was kinda serious.

[Banesto John]

For sale, one barely used GN250 .... one woman rider, never taken out in the cold.

Would like to keep but more recent model is high maintenance and demands lots of attention ~

contact me for instant bargain :niceone:.

If I buy the bike do I get the woman too?

[Banesto John]

For sale, one barely used GN250 .... one woman rider, never taken out in the cold.

Would like to keep but more recent model is high maintenance and demands lots of attention ~

contact me for instant bargain :niceone:.

The high maintenance model I have now will not fit into the new legislation. That's why I am looking for a new one.

[JMemonic]

Motorcycle safety package aims to cut crash rate

Hon Minister Duynhoven
Minister for Transport Safety

28 March 2008 Media Statement

<snip>

- Encourage progression through the GDLS by introducing a maximum
three year validity period for all learner motorcycle licences;

<snip>


Great system an long overdue but see the above, why is that just for motorcycles ? In my job I see a lot of licences used as ID and the number of 1L and 1R licences is an eye opener, a lot of folks don't see the point in upgrading from the R.

[KingJackaL]

Well, I agree with the changes - they're good, really good. But they could screw me over in an EPIC fashion depending on the details.

I've got a GSX250F Across - not exactly a super-fast 250. But it's 34kW from 159kg dry (well, it would be if it wasn't old and tired with low compression) = 213 kW/tonne. Assuming the nominal 90kg allowed for fuel+rider though that brings it down all the way to 134 kW/tonne.

So it sounds like I'll be OK. Maybe. If those assumptions are correct, and the law doesn't change (which it almost certainly will). Hmm - a little worrying.

TBH I don't mind losing the inflated value off my 250. It cost me around $3000 once you factor in the fixing up to get it going. But if for some reason my bike winds up on the wrong list of something, it's going to do me over (having to sell a bike I can't ride, losing $1000's, then having to re-buy a bike, and being off the road in the meantime).

*watches developments like a hawk*

[edit]


Your bike is a two fiddy, so it's good to go.

If you re-read the list carefully, you'll see that it's

- "All bikes of 250 cc and under, except for these two-stroke race reps"; plus

- "This 'ere list of bigger bikes that ain't too fast".

:niceone:

I hope so...

*still reading the thread xD*

[riffer]

Speaking of which; - the list is a bit harsh for the wannabe Harley owner, after all, EVERYBODY knows they only have about 40hp, all of 'em apparently so why aren't they all on the list??

Because - according to one learned biker fella I shared a few beers with at New Years - Harley horses are different to Jappa horses because they've got more torques included in them.

So there. :Pokey: Harleys are too grunty for the average rider.

[Bonez]

Because there's a proposed 650cc limit for the learner list, apparently so learners aren't overwhelmed by a too-heavy bike. Er... assuming your question was kinda serious.Can't understand that logic.
A CX500 is on the list but not the GB400.

[Steam]

Can't understand that logic.
A CX500 is on the list but not the GB400.

Yes, it's a porky bugger. By the way, I am slowly looking for another CX, so if you see any good ones, let me know.

[Ixion]

Can't understand that logic.
A CX500 is on the list but not the GB400.

Again, this is the Australian list. We got lots of bikes (especially the jap market 400s) that they never saw.

[Bonez]

I think the best thing to come out of this is the removal of the 70kph limit.

[Bonez]

Again, this is the Australian list. We got lots of bikes (especially the jap market 400s) that they never saw.Did the list have specific detail on dates do you know? As there seem to be a few designations which a few different bikes could fall under. CB500 for instance.

[FilthyLuka]

A CX500 is on the list

I wonder if that includes the turbo version... hmm :scratch:

[Bonez]

I wonder if that includes the turbo version... hmm :scratch:Now a learner on a turboed bike. Now there's street cred.

If the CX ends up on NZ list of approved bikes this means we're not going to have to another bike for Connie to get her m/c licence.

[limbimtimwim]

Interesting that they can ride an RVF400 but not a CBR400......'Cause the RVF400 is fucking slow and heavy!!

I still love mine though.

[fatheroftheaccused]

Ideas sound okay , but what about cars with 200hp driven by a learner , are they going to address that as well ?

[McDuck]

Guys there is a lot more to go go wrong with a bike. And think about it, 150KW per ton is about 200 BHP per ton which no far off a stock non top spec skyline. Sombody who can be fooked doing the maths will come and conferm this.

[McDuck]

The r34 gt-r stock was 1.5 tons worth dry and had about 300 BHP. Add in drivers etc we will not be to farr off with upper limit bikes.

[motorcyclesonline.net]

250's at the right price will still be saleable and I can't believe that all parents are going to let little Johnny & Judie race out & get a 600 - "Over my dead Body" still rings in the ears from 40 years ago All I wanted to buy was a 3TA 350 Bathtub Triumph

[McDuck]

It would have to be a bloddy low powered 600

[marty]

Guess that will plummet the value of my bike come re-sale time then.

Bummer.

cause hyobags had such great resale!

[Blackbird]

250's at the right price will still be saleable and I can't believe that all parents are going to let little Johnny & Judie race out & get a 600 - "Over my dead Body" still rings in the ears from 40 years ago All I wanted to buy was a 3TA 350 Bathtub Triumph

Ha! Exactly the same for me. I ended up with a Suzuki 50 and got a 350 Bathtub when I left homme and went to varsity. You know what? I STILL have the manual in pristine condition!

[Swoop]

I cant beleive it the govt has made a good decision for once
Don't hold your breath.
These are "proposals". Once the idiots in Wellington's round building start tinkering with them, they will bare no resemblance to what we are reading now.

[Mr. Peanut]

WOOOHOOOO :D MOTORCYCLING IS SANE AGAIN...

Oh i'm all emotional... I'm gonna get me a real bike... DR650 time!! :)


(sold my 250 at the right time too, saw this one coming a mile away....)

[PrincessBandit]

Having skim read all 16 pages of this (whew) and having printed off (and read) the Q and A's Motorcycle Safety Initiatives I agree with pretty much everyone else here - long overdue! Like Deviant Esq I too think 3rd party insurance should be compulsory. It pees me off no end to think that MY insurance no claims etc. should go out the window because someone else expressing their right to be on the road runs into me but doesn't bear any responsibility for $ by saying they don't have insurance.
Definitely in favour of scrapping the 70kph restriction. I found it freaky the first few times out on the ginny doing 100 but meh, that did not last long! It was then a total pain in the behind and must admit to ignoring it myself.
Hey, can anyone tell me how these changes might affect anyone already "in the system"? Doesn't apply to me as I'm on my full, but hubby and son are still in the early stages and wee while off theirs.

[Dodger]

I wonder if this will have any effect on the price of higher cc bikes? I can see a lot more people sticking with their learner bike (maybe removing a restrictor) instead of upgrading. <_<

Still have to do something with the cage side of things, eg restricting HP for learner/restricted drivers. Would be one way to help remove the boy racer idiots, this as well as making insurance (of some sort) compulsory.

[PrincessBandit]

Still have to do something with the cage side of things, eg restricting HP for learner/restricted drivers. Would be one way to help remove the boy racer idiots, this as well as making insurance (of some sort) compulsory.

Nah, too much dosh to be made out of fining them! :msn-wink: LBR's obviously have too much of the folding stuff themselves (most blatantly evidenced by their choice of pass-time heh heh) so those in authority wouldn't want to miss out on lightening their wallets.

[terbang]

Oh cool, I might be able to sell my 400 as it should meet the profile. Its heavy and couldn't pull a sailor off yer sister, but the important thing is that it is comfortable and easy to ride with no real vices.
We all still need to see how this thing pans out, but it certainly looks promising. Though living in hope, I Just cant get my head around the concept of the government and a common sense road safety approach being synonymous. Stranger things have happened I guess and with a bit of luck they might even listen to the industry..!:lol:

[CookMySock]

It pees me off no end to think that MY insurance no claims etc. should go out the window because someone else expressing their right to be on the road runs into me but doesn't bear any responsibility for $ by saying they don't have insurance. Is this in fact the case ? You lose YOUR no claims bonus if the other party is uninsured ?

DB

[McDuck]

Is this in fact the case ? You lose YOUR no claims bonus if the other party is uninsured ?

DB

If the other party dosnt pay up you lose you no claim till they do.

[BiK3RChiK]

Is this in fact the case ? You lose YOUR no claims bonus if the other party is uninsured ?

DB

Yep. I was talking to a friend yesterday and they had their car keyed by some raging teens when it was parked on a street and they were going to lose their no-claims until they contested it and showed proof from the police that the teens had been arrested and were being charged for willful damage to property among other things.

[CookMySock]

ah well, better watch out I don't RAM YA then

DB

[JimO]

ah well, better watch out I don't RAM YA then

DB

w a n k e r...........

[McDuck]

ah well, better watch out I don't RAM YA then

DB

If you do i will rip your fucking head off.

[McDuck]

damit jim beat me to it

[huck farley]

Stumbled upon this whilst surfing the net. for discussion. Is the government doing the right thing?
Cheers
Huck

Posted at 9:10am on 30 Mar 2008

The Government plans to introduce new motorcycle safety rules, targeting novice riders.

Transport Safety Minister Harry Duynhoven says this is because far too many motorcyclists, particularly beginners in the over- 30 age group, are involved in crashes.

Since 2001, there has been a 28% increase in licenced motorcycles and an 80% increase in casualties.

Mr Duynhoven says the proposed changes include restrictions on the use of powerful motorcycles by novice riders.

He says there has been a big increase in the number of over-30s purchasing them but many older, first time riders lack skills and the awareness of how easy it is to get into a hazardous situation.

Mr Duynhoven says the safety proposals will go out for consultation with a law change expected by 2009.

Copyright © 2008 Radio New Zealand

[Burrt Badger]

They should have done it years ago, but they MUST also do the same for cars and learner drivers. Until they do, the carnage will continue!!!!

[Bikernereid]

Any links with more info as I had decided to do my license in NZ as opposed to the UK. That all sounds like it might be just another way of trying to put potential biker off getting thier license.

[CookMySock]

successfully trolled, lol. :finger::yawn:

DB

[Oakie]

Any links with more info as I had decided to do my license in NZ as opposed to the UK. That all sounds like it might be just another way of trying to put potential biker off getting thier license.

Links are way back at the start of the thread but the highlights are:

Restricting the use of powerful bikes by novice riders. Learners and restricted licence holders will be restricted to a power to weight ratio of 150 kilowatts per tonne (anyone care to put that into an understandable form?) and the bike must not be physically 'too large' for the rider (might be interesting to measure that).

Reducing the graduated license system by 6 months for riders who have completed an approved, bike specific training course.

Introducing a bike specific competency assessment option as an alternative to restricted and full licence tests for those who have done the 'approved, bike specific' course.

Setting a maximum 3 year validity on learner licenses.

Removing the 70kph speed limit restriction on learners

Introducing 25 demerit points for not wearing helmets but reducing the fine from $150 to $50

Requiring daytime running on headlights at all times.

Increasing the minimum time period bikers over 25 spend on a restricted licence from 6 to 12 months.

It's in the Road Safety to 2010 strategy. andd is designed to improve the fatality figures of novice riders. Also says that over 30s are over-represented in novice accident figures.
All looks pretty good to me and nothing I'd be really up in arms about although assessing when a bike is too physically big may be hard to be consistent about unless it's just about getting both feet on the ground when stopped.