Elections are coming up. What are we thinking?

[cowpoos]

Election is coming up.

Thought maybe a running poll on where peoples thoughts are at might be interesting. [admins? can people change thier minds in a poll like this? of do multi choices to modify their opinions as the election get closer?]

Political discussion will be more than welcome in this thread...But I would appreciate if moderators, disposing of slander and lies, despite their political affiliations quickly. too keep this thread from being too heated.

[oldrider]

Your list is incomplete ... therefore biased!

[Naki Rat]

I consider the Greens as the 'conscience' of our parliament. Whether they are part of the ruling rabble isn't that important but we definitely need their input to stop the likes of the present government selling our country off by the tonne of coal, kg of milk solids, barrel of oil, hectare of real estate or whatever else they can turn a quick buck on before we become peasants in a sad remnant of our South Pacific paradise.

[gjm]

No Guy Fawkes option?

[buggerit]

I have realised during the last term that some Polys spent a lot of their working life overseas and seem to view the world as their home and not NZ and so have no more concern about selling off jobs, land etc to overseas interests than they would shifting employment between north and south islands.
I will probably vote NZ First for all Winstons faults, because he will be a pain in the arse and knows how to sniff out a bit of rot,

[cowpoos]

No Guy Fawkes option?

Dam... Forgot about that potential option mate...

[doc]

Will we allowed to mention that we are proud to be Male? :facepalm: Or is that a no no nowdays ]

[Hitcher]

before we become peasants in a sad remnant of our South Pacific paradise.

Or we could fast-track the process and vote Green?

[oldrider]

Dam... Forgot about that potential option mate...

http://www.democrats.org.nz/

http://www.libertarianz.org.nz/

Just two more but ...

Your poll should be at least the same as the list on election day! :yes:

[mashman]

bwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaa... thinking, good one.

[oldrider]

Unfortunately I have lived long enough to witness the demise of democracy in NZ ... lucky dip politics is not a good look or a satisfactory alternative! :no:

After the dust settles from the so called result of this election some form of order may resume out of the chaos but I won't hold my breath! :facepalm:

[Berries]

Don't vote. It only encourages them.

[TheDemonLord]

Don't vote. It only encourages them.

^^^ What he said - there is no candidate worth voting for and no party that has policies inline with my ideals

[Drew]

I'd vote for any party that made a campaign policy, that altered school curriculum to actually prepare kids for elections.

Other than that, National.

[R650R]

Well going by this poll so far, no labour but perhaps a coalition of Green, Maori, Winston, and Mana Dotcom....

Woohoo what a fun circus that will be :)

[MisterD]

http://www.democrats.org.nz/

http://www.libertarianz.org.nz/

Just two more but ...

Your poll should be at least the same as the list on election day! :yes:

Libertarianz are no longer a political party, they deregistered back in February.

[Stirts]

Well going by this poll so far, no labour but perhaps a coalition of Green, Maori, Winston, and Mana Dotcom....

Woohoo what a fun circus that will be :)

Whatever the coalition, it has, and always will be, a circus!

[oldrider]

Libertarianz are no longer a political party, they deregistered back in February.

Well, they spent too much time in mutual backpatting sessions rather than serious politicing of their policies! ... Pity really! :bye:

[awayatc]

If all political parties/politicians who didn't do what they are handsonely paid to do, would cease to exist, we wouldn't have to vote at all.....

there wouldn't be anybody left to vote for.....

[Banditbandit]

Your list is incomplete ... therefore biased!

Yes ..


Don't vote. It only encourages them.

That's about it.

But I'm considering not voting this time .. I don't support any of them ... that's a hard one as I support the right to vote - people have died to get the vote ... so not voting is a big decision in itself (not a lazy one as the OP implies).

[haydes55]

I'm going to vote for a small party. I don't really care who,no matter who I vote for I will still dislike their policies. But I just want votes away from national, labour and any party opposing "One rule for all" (mana, maori party, labour etc.).

[bluninja]

I'd like to see an option on the voting list for "none of the above", and a revote occurs if "none of the above is over 50% of votes cast. Then people can exercise their vote for a preferred party or vote to say none of them are good enough.

Maybe my idea is a new ploy to have a party stay in government forever; the sitting government would remain in power till "None of the above" votes dropped below 50%. :yes:

[TheDemonLord]

But I'm considering not voting this time .. I don't support any of them ... that's a hard one as I support the right to vote - people have died to get the vote ... so not voting is a big decision in itself (not a lazy one as the OP implies).

I personally am in the same boat - I will vote for someone when there is someone worth voting for. I have been waiting over 10 years for someone worth voting for to come up and won't be holding my breath for a worthy candidate to appear.

[oldrider]

Yes ..



That's about it.

But I'm considering not voting this time .. I don't support any of them ... that's a hard one as I support the right to vote - people have died to get the vote ... so not voting is a big decision in itself (not a lazy one as the OP implies).

A very tempting scenario but could lead to a far less than favourable end outcome ... damn it! :doh: . :kick:

Edit: Will go here I think: http://www.democrats.org.nz/

[wickle]

If there was 50% less of them, they reduced all the pecks , and they stopped nit picking at each other and got on with what they should be doing mite be worth voting !

[Oscar]

If all political parties/politicians who didn't do what they are handsonely paid to do, would cease to exist, we wouldn't have to vote at all.....

there wouldn't be anybody left to vote for.....

And there we have it, the great NZ Tall Poppy syndrome.
Just because they get paid more than you don't mean that they get paid too much.
By the standards of most of them - they get paid fuck all.
I wouldn't do their job for twice the money.

[Stirts]

I wouldn't do their job for twice the money.

Don't worry, neither are they.

[oldrider]

Don't worry, neither are they.

Note to self: Stirts never loses her edge! :first: . Sharp as! :D

[jasonu]

26 votes so far and not one for Cuntcliff and his band of morons.
Hope he isn't counting on the biker vote...

[The Reibz]

Wheres Colin Craig? Hes not on your list.
Did someone finally kill the worthless peice of shit?

[R650R]

Well I just had a read of this http://www.stuff.co.nz/data/10301782/Map-Voter-enrolment-rates-declining

Now whats interesting when you scroll over the map is the number of Maori voters. There seems to be some quite significant numbers on the Maori roll.
But what this means is they cant vote for the general candidates. If they were ever to switch even a small amount the election outcomes would be very different and quite possibly a party like National would never get in...
Very interesting to see the huge number of voters overall listed as some form of maori descent...

[R650R]

Looking at the poll so far it interesting to see whose voted for who *makes notes, amends xmas card list* ;p

[Stylo]

Read this recently ..

Democracy is simply Man versus Man, Socialism is the exact opposite .

:-)

[bogan]

I'm thinking the vote might go to training the politicans (ie, positive reinforcement of the least cunty ones there) unless anyone comes up with some stellar policy to win me over.


Read this recently ..

Democracy is simply Man versus Man, Socialism is the exact opposite .

:-)

What, Man vs human nature?

Adit: Saw the saddest thing on the news, JK was doing poser thing with the ABs and all in uproar about it. Seriously, just how many fucking knuckle dragging shitlords do we have that such a picture is even discussed in the context of the election outcome; whatever happened to choosing our leaders based on their policies? Only so much blame can be laid at the feet of such buffoons in office, the rest must be laid at those who put them there (and this absolutely include those who don't vote).

[98tls]

Don't vote. It only encourages them.

1st time i havent bothered will indeed be this election,sadly theres not 1 of em i believe worthy of a vote and i cringed whilst watching key on tele the other night with that sack of shite McCully posturing behind.

[cowpoos]

Wheres Colin Craig? Hes not on your list.
Did someone finally kill the worthless peice of shit?

Umm....Could a MODERATOR please add conservatives to the poll please?? Not to spite you Reibz....but to be fair they should be there.

[Madness]

Has anyone noticed the Colin Craig roadside hoardings? There's gonna be a whole generation of young kiwis that grow up feeling traumatised after seeing that.

[Naki Rat]

National surging ahead. Seems Nix Myth and our ACC protests are a distant memory then :brick:

[The Reibz]

Has anyone noticed the Colin Craig roadside hoardings? There's gonna be a whole generation of young kiwis that grow up feeling traumatised after seeing that.

Colin Craig is the fucking Anti-Christ. Possibly NZ's biggest shit cunt, up there with Mike Hoskings, Tony Vietch and Gareth Morgan in my opinion.
Might go take a couple of those signs and hand them out to the homeless people on queens street. Atleast they could make good use out of them by building a shelter or some shit.

If the mongrel mob or Black Power were running for Government this year they would get my vote. Cunts seem alot more organised than half the cunts that are currently in there

[oldrider]

Colin Craig is the fucking Anti-Christ.

OK I hear your message or statement ... what I am not hearing (reading) is "why"? ... care to share? ... you must have some serious shit to back that up! :confused:

Meh ... I dont know FA about the guy or his party. :no:

[MisterD]

Now whats interesting when you scroll over the map is the number of Maori voters. There seems to be some quite significant numbers on the Maori roll.
But what this means is they cant vote for the general candidates. If they were ever to switch even a small amount the election outcomes would be very different and quite possibly a party like National would never get in...


I don't know how you come to that conclusion. For a start off, the number of Maori electorates is down to the relative number of people on the general and Maori rolls (so if they move then the number of Maori electorates will fall), but with the way that the Maori electorates have voted recently (Maori or Harawira Thug party for electorate and Labour for party votes) we have a high chance of a Maori-favouring overhang.

Getting rid of the Maori seats, as recommended by the original MMP commission thingy (funny how lefties crying about "coat-tailing" ignore that) would likely strengthen National, who don't stand candidates in those seats currently.

[SPman]

Meh ... I dont know FA about the guy or his party. :no:Nor does he........:laugh:

[cowpoos]

I don't know how you come to that conclusion. For a start off, the number of Maori electorates is down to the relative number of people on the general and Maori rolls (so if they move then the number of Maori electorates will fall), but with the way that the Maori electorates have voted recently (Maori or Harawira Thug party for electorate and Labour for party votes) we have a high chance of a Maori-favouring overhang.

Getting rid of the Maori seats, as recommended by the original MMP commission thingy (funny how lefties crying about "coat-tailing" ignore that) would likely strengthen National, who don't stand candidates in those seats currently.

Thats some, very good points.

[mansell]

I'm pissed off this election campaign seems to be about personalities not policies, in one corner we have the good kiwi bloke who has no faith in New Zealand (after all his kids both attended private schools and his daughter has pissed off to France to go to Uni) and is carefully groomed by an Australian PR firm and on the other side someone who takes a three day vacation and is vilified by the press. BTW before you start trolling this comment be aware I am politically extremely left wing and think neo-liberalism is the biggest crock of shit ever developed.

[MisterD]

Vilified by members of his own party, which was gleefully reported by the press because they love a bit of in-fighting.

He went skiing just so his poll ratings weren't the quickest things going down hill

[cowpoos]

Im properly surprised by the diversity of poll voting so far. Seems labour are not a friend of kiwibikers so far.

What is the background to people picking fringe parties? Mana/dotcom has surprise me, compare to mainstream polls.....well that and very few are voting labour, at tis stage.?!?

[awa355]

At least he is a realist.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10314780/Labour-comeback-will-be-a-surprise-Cunliffe

[Oakie]

What is the background to people picking fringe parties? Mana/dotcom has surprise me, compare to mainstream polls.....?!?

Protest vote is all. Bikers are individualists and more likely to steer away from mainstream anything I guess.

[Motu]

I've voted for nearly every party there has been, but never National. Partly upbringing - working class family, both parents in the Engineers Union, I never knew what they voted, but I'd be pretty sure it'd be Labour. And like a lot of young people who first voted in 2008, they grew up in a Helen Clark Labour government, my childhood was 4 terms of National and the pompous Keith Holyoake. In the 2 horse race of the early '70's my first time at voting was for the Communist Party.

I have more choices now, I don't know who or what I'll vote for, but I do know what I won't.

[oldrider]

Local Candidate = Democrats for Social Credit ... Party vote = National (prefer National as best of a bad bunch and Social Credit monetary policy) :done: and dusted!

[Banditbandit]

A very tempting scenario but could lead to a far less than favourable end outcome ... damn it! :doh: . :kick:

Edit: Will go here I think: http://www.democrats.org.nz/


Outcome ???? Will it really matter ??????

(Except to the ideologically traumatized?)

[oldrider]

Outcome ???? Will it really matter ??????

(Except to the ideologically traumatized?)

No ... thats the problem, it never does! :brick:

[cowpoos]

There is massive diversity in the polling in this thread compared to general polls.

I'm surprised that there has only been a couple of considered opinions about the political landscape on this poll.

[Oscar]

I'm surprised that there has only been a couple of considered opinions about the political landscape on this poll.

This is KB, please explain why you are surprised.

[cowpoos]

This is KB, please explain why you are surprised.

I thought KBers were smart than this........

[unstuck]

I thought KBers were smart than this........

Really, did you reread your post? :innocent::niceone:

[Ender EnZed]

There is massive diversity in the polling in this thread compared to general polls.

I'm surprised that there has only been a couple of considered opinions about the political landscape on this poll.

The fact that it's a public poll rather than anonymous will be having an effect.

[Berries]

I'm still waiting for a decent option in the poll. I'm not a communist, not lazy and not dumb, but I am yet to be convinced about the point of voting so never have. They will all tell you what you want to hear and aren't held to account over any promises they make. They won't magically make jobs appear and the price of bread and milk won't change overnight. I will still have to go to work, I will still have to provide a future for my kids. It matters not which party is in power as in a few years everyone will get bored and the other party will have a go. In my considered opinion about the political landscape, the whole lot of them should go and get fucked.

Except Winston. He appears to be a good cunt. Is he the Dunedin MP?

[Banditbandit]

I'm still waiting for a decent option in the poll. I'm not a communist, not lazy and not dumb, but I am yet to be convinced about the point of voting so never have. They will all tell you what you want to hear and aren't held to account over any promises they make. They won't magically make jobs appear and the price of bread and milk won't change overnight. I will still have to go to work, I will still have to provide a future for my kids. It matters not which party is in power as in a few years everyone will get bored and the other party will have a go. In my considered opinion about the political landscape, the whole lot of them should go and get fucked.

Except Winston. He appears to be a good cunt. Is he the Dunedin MP?



I was with you right up to the last sentence ... imo Winston is the worst of the lot !!!

[Banditbandit]

Nothing like the new Ford Truck!



I bought a new imported Ford F250 Tri-Flex Fuel Truck, Go figure, it runs on either hydrogen, gasoline, or E85.

I returned to the dealer yesterday because I couldn't get the radio to work.

The service technician explained that the radio was voice activated.

'Nelson,' the technician said to the radio.

The radio replied, 'Ricky or Willie?'

'Willie!' he continued and 'On The Road Again' came from the speakers. Then he said, 'Ray Charles!', and in an instant,' Georgia On My Mind' replaced Willie Nelson.

I drove away happy, and for the next few days, every time I'd say, 'Beethoven,'I'd get beautiful classical music, and if I said, 'Beatles,' I'd get one of their awesome songs.

Yesterday, some guy ran a red light and nearly creamed my new truck but I swerved in time to avoid him...

I yelled, “F*****g Idiot!”

Immediately, the radio responded with:

"Ladies and gentlemen, an address from the Leader of the Opposition, David Cunliffe"

[Oscar]

I was with you right up to the last sentence ... imo Winston is the worst of the lot !!!

...and this one of those rare occasions, when the planets align, the sun shines and the Gods are in a good liver – when we agree on something political.

[bluninja]

Nothing like the new Ford Truck!

Immediately, the radio responded with:

"Ladies and gentlemen, an address from the Leader of the Opposition, David Cunliffe"

So what was the music that followed? Dub Step? An Excuse Me Waltz? Simply Red?

[Banditbandit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXM1jC-GWuc

[avgas]

I'm considering voting for the Maori party. Fuck knows why apart from they seem to have an education.
Until someone finds me a hot chick, or an animal, or a rock to vote for - then I will vote for them.
In fact if a rock ran for parliament, I would even try and convince my friends to vote.

Now don't misinterpret it for "someone who acts like a rock" - I am talking about cold, hard, inanimate stone. If the rock has a pulse or resembles something that could have lived my vote is going elsewhere.
As for the hot chick. I think I stand more chance of finding a rock to go into parliament.

[avgas]

Well, they spent too much time in mutual backpatting sessions rather than serious politicing of their policies! ... Pity really! :bye:
Even bum sex requires foreplay.

[awa355]

It must be election year, The Nats have pulled this old hoary chestnut out of the cupboard.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11303937

[Banditbandit]

It must be election year, The Nats have pulled this old hoary chestnut out of the cupboard.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11303937

Yeah .. if they'd managed to carry out their past promises to do this they would not have to promise it again ..

[oldrider]

To be fair they have given crime more attention than Clark's lot ever did and then they had a lot more distractions to contend with! I.E. The shaky city for one! :yes:

[Laava]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sideswipe/news/article.cfm?c_id=702&objectid=11303836
This is good, I'm gonna vote for him now...

[SPman]

...... then they had a lot more distractions to contend with! I.E. The shaky city for one! :yes: About which they've done five-eighths of fuck all! - except use it as an excuse for failures and a prop for increased economic activity!

[SPman]

... but I am yet to be convinced about the point of voting so never have. They say if voting was worth anything, they wouldn't let you have one...:shifty:

[Banditbandit]

They say if voting was worth anything, they wouldn't let you have one...:shifty:

Amusing - but a lot of people have died in the past to get the right to vote for everyone ... including people like Emily Davison... and at least all those who died in WWII ...

"They" didn't give it to us - it was fought for and bought with blood. Democracy needs to be fought for at every occasion ..

[Oscar]

Amusing - but a lot of people have died in the past to get the right to vote for everyone ... including people like Emily Davison... and in at least all those who died in WWII ...

"They" didn't give it to us - it was fought for and bought with blood. Democracy needs to be fought for at every occasion ..

Holy shit!
That's twice in a week I've agreed with you!

[Banditbandit]

Holy shit!
That's twice in a week I've agreed with you!

Shit - I wonder if you can make it three by the end of the week - or if you will go and see a trick cyclist to sort out your issues ..

[Oscar]

Shit - I wonder if you can make it three by the end of the week - or if you will go and see a trick cyclist to sort out your issues ..

I have an idea that we started in much the same place...

[oldrider]

Shit - I wonder if you can make it three by the end of the week - or if you will go and see a trick cyclist to sort out your issues ..

Some of us might think that they are "your" issues! :lol:

[Banditbandit]

Some of us might think that they are "your" issues! :lol:

That's true - but if Oscar is agreeing with this anarchic anarchist from the far left I'd assume he has the issues.

[oldrider]

That's true - but if Oscar is agreeing with this anarchic anarchist from the far left I'd assume he has the issues.

Touche! (sp) ... You been eating oysters today? :lol: . :killingme

[Oscar]

That's true - but if Oscar is agreeing with this anarchic anarchist from the far left I'd assume he has the issues.

I used to live in the far left.

[Ocean1]

I used to live in the far left.

Anarchist he said.

He's got no fucking idea, I once had my prostate replaced with an antistate.

[oldrider]

I once had my prostate replaced with an antistate.

I've still got mine ... mind you it is in a helluva state. ... Is that anything like an antistate? :confused:

I grew up left wing but the local barber clipped it while getting a haircut and I've been flying straight ever since! :blip:

[Oscar]

Anarchist he said.

He's got no fucking idea, I once had my prostate replaced with an antistate.

There are very few true anarchists out there.
Most claiming the title have no idea what the anarchists were all about.

[Banditbandit]

Touche! (sp) ... You been eating oysters today? :lol: . :killingme

Yeah .. I pick them up in the mangroves opposite my drive ...


I used to live in the far left.

I don't blame you for leaving .. it's not a fun place ... (and the sex is dreadful too ...)


Anarchist he said.

He's got no fucking idea, I once had my prostate replaced with an antistate.

I bet that improved your sex life !!!!


There are very few true anarchists out there.
Most claiming the title have no idea what the anarchists were all about.

Shit - now I'd have to say I agree with you .. does that make it three in one week and not even Friday ???

[Oscar]

I don't blame you for leaving .. it's not a fun place ... (and the sex is dreadful too ...)





It isn't a fun place.
I recall as a student being greatly concerned about damn near everything that was going on in the world.
It was kind of theoretical right up until the 1981 General Election and the Springbok Tour.
At that point during protests it came as a shock to realise that:

Not everybody was as right thinking as me.
Some people (people that included friends and family) were not open to debate or reasonable discussion.
Some people even wanted to do me harm on the basis of my beliefs.
Some of these people were policemen...

So no, having people trying to crack your heed is not a fun place to be.

[Banditbandit]

It isn't a fun place.
I recall as a student being greatly concerned about damn near everything that was going on in the world.
It was kind of theoretical right up until the 1981 General Election and the Springbok Tour.
At that point during protests it came as a shock to realise that:

Not everybody was as right thinking as me.
Some people (people that included friends and family) were not open to debate or reasonable discussion.
Some people even wanted to do me harm on the basis of my beliefs.
Some of these people were policemen...

So no, having people trying to crack your heed is not a fun place to be.

Yeah - I remember 1981 .. I was heavily involved too ...

1 Most of the protestors did not agree with me ...

2 I fell out with my fellow protestors - especially after I got bored playing silly games with the police, turned my transistor to the game and relayed the state of play to the rest of the protestors ... ( I liked rugby and still do)

3 Many people were not open to debate or reasonable discussion

4 Stupid protestors thought the police were the worst - could not see that the pro-tour rugby supporters were the real danger - police just hit you with bits of wood

5 I got hit by bits of wood several times and was in the centre of the ONLY police action that was ruled "unjustified violence" by the complaints authority (I watched Ross Meurant try to stop his men, gave up and was reduced to physically pulling them of protestors.)

For me it has always been theoretical AND active ... (Theory without action is sterile, action without theory is futile - Praxis counts) ...

I gave up on the political left years ago (anarchic anarchists are always outsiders anyway) ... My praxis now is in my teaching ... that in itself is a political act ...

[HenryDorsetCase]

What are we thinking?

"Not these cunts again, fuck".

"Don't vote it only encourages them"

"What a hateful bunch of pricks"



things like that usually

[HenryDorsetCase]

Anarchist he said.

He's got no fucking idea, I once had my prostate replaced with an antistate.

that is so funny I am stealing it for my signature. What do you think about that, fascist?

[Oscar]

My praxis now is in my teaching ... that in itself is a political act ...

You bastid - you're the most dangerous kind of lefty:shifty:
Fortunately the lazy little shits can't arsed voting...

[Banditbandit]

You bastid - you're the most dangerous kind of lefty:shifty:
Fortunately the lazy little shits can't arsed voting...

:killingme

But you've got my wrong - sure I work hard to politicize my students .. and I hope they lean left .. but if they don't I point them at writers I think could support their ideas ... my role is to assist them to make informed decisions .. be they left or right ..

I will admit to having Ayn Rand books on my shelf behind me ...

[HenryDorsetCase]

I will admit to having Ayn Rand books on my shelf behind me ...

turgid unreadable crap.

[Banditbandit]

turgid unreadable crap.

Jeez .. You're kind .. I though she was worse than that ...

[Ocean1]

that is so funny I am stealing it for my signature. What do you think about that, fascist?

No problem at all my son, you may employ it indefinitely for that purpose, in exchange for a small commercial consideration.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/VQi9znLNCEM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yours, without prejudice, etc etc.

[Ocean1]

What are we thinking?

"Not these cunts again, fuck".

Mostly, yes.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10354453/Labour-to-rebuild-public-service

Never again.

[Hinny]

So we have a self confessed War Criminal heading a govt. with the worst economic record in our history and they are the leading contender in the polls.
Bizzare.

[Kornholio]

Election is coming up.

Thought maybe a running poll on where peoples thoughts are at might be interesting. [admins? can people change thier minds in a poll like this? of do multi choices to modify their opinions as the election get closer?]

Political discussion will be more than welcome in this thread...But I would appreciate if moderators, disposing of slander and lies, despite their political affiliations quickly. too keep this thread from being too heated.

I used to vote McGillicuddy Serious but I think they've gone bush....

[mashman]

Because it worked during the recession (https://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/pm-keeps-corporate-tax-rate-174712078--spt.html) bwaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa. Although it should buy some of your votes eh.

[Ocean1]

Because it worked during the recession (https://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/pm-keeps-corporate-tax-rate-174712078--spt.html) bwaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa. Although it should buy some of your votes eh.

You're right, it should.

A sensible way to directly invest in the productive sector.

[mashman]

You're right, it should.

A sensible way to directly invest in the productive sector.

Drop the "sensible" and I'll agree ;)

[oldrider]

I used to vote McGillicuddy Serious but I think they've gone bush....

Thats how serious they were ... another set of wasted votes! At least they achieved their goal! :rolleyes:

[MisterD]

So we have a self confessed War Criminal heading a govt. with the worst economic record in our history and they are the leading contender in the polls.
Bizzare.

You're posting from the US?

[Ocean1]

You're posting from the US?

Ursa Minor I think.

[mashman]

Ursa Minor I think.

And not from Your Anus for a change... go figure.




















I know, poor, but it had to be said.

[cowpoos]

Really, did you reread your post? :innocent::niceone:

yes. what was incorrect?

[cowpoos]

I'm still waiting for a decent option in the poll. I'm not a communist, not lazy and not dumb, but I am yet to be convinced about the point of voting so never have. They will all tell you what you want to hear and aren't held to account over any promises they make. They won't magically make jobs appear and the price of bread and milk won't change overnight. I will still have to go to work, I will still have to provide a future for my kids. It matters not which party is in power as in a few years everyone will get bored and the other party will have a go. In my considered opinion about the political landscape, the whole lot of them should go and get fucked.

Except Winston. He appears to be a good cunt. Is he the Dunedin MP?

You need to get more informed. Politically educate yourself. Take a stance. The reason why I have said that is your post was basically bitching and whining....you don't get the right to bitch and whine about politics, unless you get off your arse and vote!!

and that is lazy. its your country...our democracy...have your say or don't have an opinion! :rolleyes:

[cowpoos]

I'm considering voting for the Maori party. Fuck knows why apart from they seem to have an education.
Until someone finds me a hot chick, or an animal, or a rock to vote for - then I will vote for them.
In fact if a rock ran for parliament, I would even try and convince my friends to vote.

Now don't misinterpret it for "someone who acts like a rock" - I am talking about cold, hard, inanimate stone. If the rock has a pulse or resembles something that could have lived my vote is going elsewhere.
As for the hot chick. I think I stand more chance of finding a rock to go into parliament.


are you trying to get your post count up?? So you seem more credible with a higher post count or something?

Sorry....saying really dumb things, won't make you sound more credible...but then...you maybe at the age I was when I said dumb things. Lots of dumb things! anyway...there are other threads...leave my serious one alone! :bleh:

[mashman]

Politically educate yourself. Take a stance.

What says he hasn't already and realised that it's a complete waste of time and effort as the results are evident? He did take a stance. No confidence should be on the ballot. Put it on there and make it count (i.e. report it), and I bet he'd vote. I would also.

[Berries]

You need to get more informed. Politically educate yourself. Take a stance. The reason why I have said that is your post was basically bitching and whining....you don't get the right to bitch and whine about politics, unless you get off your arse and vote!!

and that is lazy. its your country...our democracy...have your say or don't have an opinion! :rolleyes:
Oh yes, that old nutshell, if you don't vote you can't complain. I don't complain about politics, I just get on with my life and leave the bitching and whining to the people who think Labour are wankers or National are wankers or Hone dotcom Dunne Peters is the saviour. The fact that people are Labour or National voters indicates to me that fuck all thought actually goes in to their decision anyway.

I consider myself informed, I just don't give a shit about politics or the absolute circus that surrounds it. That is my stance, sorry. I arrived in New Zealand when Jim Bolger was PM, then Jenny Shipley, Helen Clark and John Key. They had no real influence on my life. Who wins this one won't either so, you know, it's irrelevant to me. I just posted because the option of not giving a shit wasn't there, not that I would vote for it anyway.

[Berries]

What says he hasn't already and realised that it's a complete waste of time and effort as the results are evident? He did take a stance. No confidence should be on the ballot. Put it on there and make it count (i.e. report it), and I bet he'd vote.
Nah, I still couldn't be arsed.

[Banditbandit]

..leave my serious one alone! :bleh:

:rofl: :clap: :killingme :lol: :laugh:

It's a political thread isn't it ??

[mashman]

Nah, I still couldn't be arsed.

You lazy cunt... I take it all back.

[Voltaire]

My preferred party the
I'm a communist or to lazy get of my arse and too dumb to vote
are looking good for a seat :rolleyes:
needs a shorter name though.
Thinking ....Lazy Arse Bastards Communist Underclass Non Thinkers or LABCUNT

[Hinny]

You're posting from the US?

Birds of a feather.
Realistically though I guess NZ doesn't have a voice on the world stage. Well not with a PM with such an affection for the US and their policies.
Remember how willing he was to commit NZ to go to war against North Korea and how playing golf with Obama was enough to change his attitude to committing troops to Iraq. Doesn't want NZ to be "Missing in Action" again.

The question was raised earlier about how much confidence we can have in the integrety of our election process.
Given the meteoric rise in support for National when Don Brash was leader -media polls vs election polls one may be led to suspect the integrety of each of them.
The outcome of our elections in my opinion illustrates the problem with democracy. The vote goes to the those with the most favourable media coverage. In the US that is invariably those people with the biggest budgets.

Given how deeply embedded the US is in our affairs, and also given they had just an rigged election, one could be forgiven for thinking that could happen here.

[Ocean1]

But the majority can't be right, they don't agree with ME!... Unless... of course, teh system's rigged!

Best you keep your head down dude, or the GCSB will be around to have a wee chat.

[Hinny]

Best you keep your head down dude, or the GCSB will be around to have a wee chat.

I do keep my head down.
Very few in this country that don't.

[Hinny]

Best you keep your head down dude, or the GCSB will be around to have a wee chat.

Your lamely doctored 'quote' reminded me of a Larson cartoon
- a horse sitting in a meeting.
every other being in there was a cow.

Caption read - Just because you are in the minority it doesn't mean you are wrong.

Interestingly nobody seems to have anything positive to say about the National party.
Not a word about its performance over the last 6 years.
Not a word about any policy they have for the future.
I have theories on why that would be.

[oldrider]

Birds of a feather.
Realistically though I guess NZ doesn't have a voice on the world stage. Well not with a PM with such an affection for the US and their policies.
Remember how willing he was to commit NZ to go to war against North Korea and how playing golf with Obama was enough to change his attitude to committing troops to Iraq. Doesn't want NZ to be "Missing in Action" again.

The question was raised earlier about how much confidence we can have in the integrety of our election process.
Given the meteoric rise in support for National when Don Brash was leader -media polls vs election polls one may be led to suspect the integrety of each of them.
The outcome of our elections in my opinion illustrates the problem with democracy. The vote goes to the those with the most favourable media coverage. In the US that is invariably those people with the biggest budgets.

Given how deeply embedded the US is in our affairs, and also given they had just an rigged election, one could be forgiven for thinking that could happen here.

Watching Obama being "strong" on defense of the refugees from ISIS while casting a completely blind eye to the Palestinian plight due to Israel made me sick! :sick:

The guy is nothing more than a Zionist puppet - what a complete contradiction, no wonder Netenyahu has the confidence to put him in his place and talk down to him!

America is only a shell of the nation it claims to be and was to the world as I grew up, it has succumed to the enemy within.

John Key should heed that but then what is John Key's background and how did he rise so quickly to power and become so confident in the presence of the "President"?

A little time a little thought and sometimes the mist begins to clear if not for a moment! :corn:

[cowpoos]

The question was raised earlier about how much confidence we can have in the integrety of our election process.
Given the meteoric rise in support for National when Don Brash was leader -media polls vs election polls one may be led to suspect the integrety of each of them.
The outcome of our elections in my opinion illustrates the problem with democracy. The vote goes to the those with the most favourable media coverage. In the US that is invariably those people with the biggest budgets.



The media in this country are heavy on the left really....Not really sure what you're insinuating, especially with all the proof you have provided to support your position? As for rigged polls....thats conspiracy theory rubbish.
We'll leave those sorts of fantasies out of this thread ta very much.

If you want to contribute to this thread....talk politics...not made up crap. Actual political debate!...not pointing fingers and telling lies..if you're going to make stuff up...tell lies...say money wins elections and crap...you really need to ponder the age we are in. Information is everywhere...we can see through smack talk from politicians in a instant. We can find the facts in a instant.
You also Need to ponder political history...I feel your position takes only selected facts on board and ignores the rest.

In saying that...please engage in debates...

[mada]

And in latest news:

National set to get heavy and crack down on gangs, after they crack down on the Police first! :drinkup:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11306513


Police numbers are being cut in Hawke's Bay despite statistics showing those already in the job are struggling to cope with the worst crime rates in the country.

The losses of at least seven sworn police and 10 support staff throughout the Eastern Police District, comprising Hawke's Bay and Gisborne-East Coast's Tairawhiti area, were revealed to staff at the end of last month.

Sworn officers will drop from 424 to 417, and their support staff will be slashed by more than 15 per cent, from 65 to 55, to meet "ratified" numbers for the district, staff were told.

[oldrider]

Having had a good read of KiwiBiker (therefore the world) diverse political opinions, one could be excused for reaching the following conclusions!

We appear to now live in a world where:

Doctors destroy health,
Lawyers destroy justice,
Universities destroy knowledge,
Governments destroy freedom,
The media destroys information,
Religions destroy morals,
Banks destroy the economy.

If this were in fact true:

Will anything change after the completion of the next election and the formation of a new government in our Aotearoa/New Zealand?

Or will it simply be, more of the same! :corn:

[Brian d marge]

Right the follow have been added to me list

Colon


007 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/8608-007),
Blackbird (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/16-Blackbird),
bogan (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/23666-bogan),
carbonhed (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/20576-carbonhed),
caseye (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/15535-caseye),
cowpoos (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/2101-cowpoos),
cs363 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/17632-cs363),
Drew (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/1012-Drew),
EJK (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/12278-EJK),
GSW (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/34647-GSW),
hayd3n (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/14138-hayd3n),
jasonu (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/25768-jasonu),
Oakie (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/2379-Oakie),
oldrider (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/3118-oldrider),
pzkpfw (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/4394-pzkpfw),
Robbo (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/271-Robbo),
scott411 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/5027-scott411),
trustme (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/9724-trustme),
Wannabiker (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/11922-Wannabiker),
Winston001 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/2926-Winston001),
Woodman (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/19996-Woodman)


Come the revolution brothers . . . . . .

Stephen

[mashman]

Right the follow have been added to me list

Colon


007 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/8608-007),
Blackbird (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/16-Blackbird),
bogan (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/23666-bogan),
carbonhed (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/20576-carbonhed),
caseye (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/15535-caseye),
cowpoos (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/2101-cowpoos),
cs363 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/17632-cs363),
Drew (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/1012-Drew),
EJK (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/12278-EJK),
GSW (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/34647-GSW),
hayd3n (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/14138-hayd3n),
jasonu (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/25768-jasonu),
Oakie (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/2379-Oakie),
oldrider (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/3118-oldrider),
pzkpfw (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/4394-pzkpfw),
Robbo (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/271-Robbo),
scott411 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/5027-scott411),
trustme (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/9724-trustme),
Wannabiker (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/11922-Wannabiker),
Winston001 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/2926-Winston001),
Woodman (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/19996-Woodman)


Come the revolution brothers . . . . . .

Stephen

They will be ever so slightly disappointed?

[Brian d marge]

It isn't a fun place.
I recall as a student being greatly concerned about damn near everything that was going on in the world.
It was kind of theoretical right up until the 1981 General Election and the Springbok Tour.
At that point during protests it came as a shock to realise that:

Not everybody was as right thinking as me.
Some people (people that included friends and family) were not open to debate or reasonable discussion.
Some people even wanted to do me harm on the basis of my beliefs.
Some of these people were policemen...

So no, having people trying to crack your heed is not a fun place to be.
So u either went to teachers college
Or had a subsidized education

And u might have noticed. . People still have difficulty in agreeing with u

Stephen

[Oscar]

So u either went to teachers college
Or had a subsidized education

And u might have noticed. . People still have difficulty in agreeing with u

Stephen

That is the nature of democracy.
Some people may have trouble agreeing with me, but at least they understand me.
Maybe you should have taken advantage of more subsidised education, instead of coming across like an ignorant dork..

[yokel]

Having had a good read of KiwiBiker (therefore the world) diverse political opinions, one could be excused for reaching the following conclusions!

We appear to now live in a world where:

Doctors destroy health,
Lawyers destroy justice,
Universities destroy knowledge,
Governments destroy freedom,
The media destroys information,
Religions destroy morals,
Banks destroy the economy.

If this were in fact true:

Will anything change after the completion of the next election and the formation of a new government in our Aotearoa/New Zealand?

Or will it simply be, more of the same! :corn:

All we are voting for is a change of middle management.

that is why from now on I am abstaining from voting. and if the TV tells me to to vote well get fucked TV!

[Hinny]

The media in this country are heavy on the left really....Not really sure what you're insinuating, especially with all the proof you have provided to support your position? As for rigged polls....thats conspiracy theory rubbish.
We'll leave those sorts of fantasies out of this thread ta very much.

If you want to contribute to this thread....talk politics...not made up crap. Actual political debate!...not pointing fingers and telling lies..if you're going to make stuff up...tell lies...say money wins elections and crap...you really need to ponder the age we are in. Information is everywhere...we can see through smack talk from politicians in a instant. We can find the facts in a instant.
You also Need to ponder political history...I feel your position takes only selected facts on board and ignores the rest.

In saying that...please engage in debates...

Naive drivel.

[James Deuce]

The reason I vote is the same reason I'd punch a bear who was trying to eat me. It's futile, but I'm not going down without a fight.

[oldrider]

The reason I vote is the same reason I'd punch a bear who was trying to eat me. It's futile, but I'm not going down without a fight.

Touche ... I have always tried to refute it or leave it alone but is always there in my face telling me that it is all true! Damn it! :facepalm:

[Woodman]

They will be ever so slightly disappointed?

What list is he on about?

Don't like lists, usually means I gotta do somethingI don't particularly want to do.:sick:

[Brian d marge]

That is the nature of democracy.
Some people may have trouble agreeing with me, but at least they understand me.
Maybe you should have taken advantage of more subsidised education, instead of coming across like an ignorant dork..

I would have liked to have taken advantage , but people such as yr good self decided that user pays and the young should be straddled with a millstone of debt

I stand in awe of such stupidity . Sir I take my hat off to you and divert my eyes

Stephen

ps the operative word there was ,Some.

[mada]

I would have liked to have taken advantage , but people such as yr good self decided that user pays and the young should be straddledd with a millstone of debt

I stand in awe of such stupidity . Sir I take my hat off to you and divert my eyes

Stephen

ps the operative word there was ,Some.

Give that man a DB! :headbang:

[unstuck]

Now if we had someone like Penny Low the Singaporean politician, I would happily vote.:niceone:

[Ocean1]

Give that man a DB! :headbang:

Have you asked your boss about the public cost of training a GP yet?

[Brian d marge]

Have you asked your boss about the public cost of training a GP yet?


yes , untrained are much cheaper


Stephen

[yokel]

The reason I vote is the same reason I'd punch a bear who was trying to eat me. It's futile, but I'm not going down without a fight.

you think voting is a form of fighting? haha
might as well just sit there and let the bear eat your face off

[James Deuce]

you think voting is a form of fighting? haha
might as well just sit there and let the bear eat your face off

Didn't do too well at school eh? Allegory is a common form of story telling. It's used to illustrate a point, not make one.

[yokel]

Didn't do too well at school eh? Allegory is a common form of story telling. It's used to illustrate a point, not make one.

whats a Allegory? ha
I sucked at school thats why i'm not a educated idiot

and your point is shit, voting is not fighting

[mada]

Have you asked your boss about the public cost of training a GP yet?

What's that got to do with old farts getting it all for free and turning around to scrimp off the younger generations for everything..

I can imagine you bleating in your old age that primary school kids should have to pay their way through and can work if they don't like it...:motu:

[mashman]

What list is he on about?

Don't like lists, usually means I gotta do somethingI don't particularly want to do.:sick:

The right whingers of the thread.

S'ok, you don't have to action it as you're on it, so action will be take on your behalf :laugh: Chillax bro... all's well

[Oscar]

I would have liked to have taken advantage , but people such as yr good self decided that user pays and the young should be straddled with a millstone of debt

I stand in awe of such stupidity . Sir I take my hat off to you and divert my eyes

Stephen

ps the operative word there was ,Some.

Wow, you must get tired jumping to stupid conclusions.
Due to my immigration status, what tertiary education I had in NZ, I paid for myself.

So no I didn't take advantage of anything.

[mashman]

So no I didn't take advantage of anything.

Roads? Food? Water? Waste? Study books and associated brains that have populated them for ya? Transport too and from Uni? I can't be fucked listing anything else, but the list is all but endless. And just to make it absolutely clear, just because you paid for the service doesn't mean that you didn't take advantage of anything... moreover that makes you out to be an ungrateful ignorant cunt.

[Ocean1]

What's that got to do with old farts getting it all for free and turning around to scrimp off the younger generations for everything..

The fact that the majority of your tuition costs are covered by the taxpayer is pretty much precisely the point in question.

The fact that you didn't spot that demonstrates that we're not getting very good value for our money.

[yokel]

Roads? Food? Water? Waste? Study books and associated brains that have populated them for ya? Transport too and from Uni? I can't be fucked listing anything else, but the list is all but endless. And just to make it absolutely clear, just because you paid for the service doesn't mean that you didn't take advantage of anything... moreover that makes you out to be an ungrateful ignorant cunt.

We are all ungrateful ignorant cunts, it seems to me that people dont understand or even aware of the concept that there are NO free lunches.

like when people are thinking they're getting something for free like say health care. it's not free mother fucker.

we are all stuck in survival mode

[mada]

The fact that the majority of your tuition costs are covered by the taxpayer is pretty much precisely the point in question.

The fact that you didn't spot that demonstrates that we're not getting very good value for our money.

Well duh.... I still end up paying $90,000 for something which the mega earners in the health system - got for free. I will end up paying higher taxes when they increase them again to cover for the pensions of your generation and all its hand outs and splurges such as free education. But thats all good for you aint it? Cos you're part of the bludger generation! :tugger::tugger:

I don't really care too much about my own circumstances, I've planned and prepared for it. But it pisses me off to see you old farts never fucking happy with making more $$$ from cutting MORE things for the younger ones, such as FREE PUBLIC EDUCATION at primary and secondary school. When will you greedy fucks ever be happy with what you have and think about the future of the country rather than your ungrateful selfs?

[mashman]

We are all ungrateful ignorant cunts, it seems to me that people dont understand or even aware of the concept that there are NO free lunches.

like when people are thinking they're getting something for free like say health care. it's not free mother fucker.

we are all stuck in survival mode

heh... I think you'll find that Ocean is more than happy with the concept that there are no free lunches.

It should all be free.

Yeah nah, if we were in survival mode we wouldn't be fucking around the edges when it comes to making sure society is looked after. We're still in destruction mode.

[yokel]

heh... I think you'll find that Ocean is more than happy with the concept that there are no free lunches.

It should all be free.

Yeah nah, if we were in survival mode we wouldn't be fucking around the edges when it comes to making sure society is looked after. We're still in destruction mode.

I dont really get your last comment??

making sure society is looked after is for our own survival, because with out it we're fucked.
and for a society to survive it needs to be able to look after it's self, ha i guess thats what the yanks are up to?

[mashman]

I dont really get your last comment??

making sure society is looked after is for our own survival, because with out it we're fucked.
and for a society to survive it needs to be able to look after it's self, ha i guess thats what the yanks are up to?

Cool. Survival mode is not an individual task, it is a societal direction. A society that is in survival mode would realise that each and every single individual of that society needs to be looked after too as they are vital for our survival. There are no excuses or exclusions after that point i.e. age, infirm, lazy etc... One of the reasons for this is: you never know what the potential exclusions are capable of. More reasons being: if we were in survival mode, there would be no war, absolute minimal pollution, there would be more teachers, more doctors, more people doing jobs that are actually of benefit to society, no leaky buildings, a global direction that every single individual on the planet will have had drilled into them at school.............

Being in destruction mode is the opposite of the above :laugh:.

We do not have a shared goal. We are suck it and see. When there is intent and purpose, there will be a goal and then I'd say that we're in survival mode.

:rofl:@yanks. I feel for people in the US. Same as the rest of the worlds populace really... consistently fucked over for money because knuckle dragging morons don't give a shit about future generations.

(looks like you understand all that though)

[Oscar]

Roads? Food? Water? Waste? Study books and associated brains that have populated them for ya? Transport too and from Uni? I can't be fucked listing anything else, but the list is all but endless. And just to make it absolutely clear, just because you paid for the service doesn't mean that you didn't take advantage of anything... moreover that makes you out to be an ungrateful ignorant cunt.

We were talking education, but I'm used to your irrelevant and silly outbursts.
So yes, I used all that other shit, but I paid plenty of tax.

Did anyone ever tell you that you whine like a bitch?

[mashman]

We were talking education, but I'm used to your irrelevant and silly outbursts.
So yes, I used all that other shit, but I paid plenty of tax.

Did anyone ever tell you that you whine like a bitch?

So you didn't eat or read or travel to etc.... your educational institute? Irrelevant? I see you're living up to what you make yourself out to be. But you are funny at times.
bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaa.

Nope. My concern is evident to many.

[Ocean1]

Well duh.... I still end up paying $90,000 for something which the mega earners in the health system - got for free. I will end up paying higher taxes when they increase them again to cover for the pensions of your generation and all its hand outs and splurges such as free education. But thats all good for you aint it? Cos you're part of the bludger generation! :tugger::tugger:

I don't really care too much about my own circumstances, I've planned and prepared for it. But it pisses me off to see you old farts never fucking happy with making more $$$ from cutting MORE things for the younger ones, such as FREE PUBLIC EDUCATION at primary and secondary school. When will you greedy fucks ever be happy with what you have and think about the future of the country rather than your ungrateful selfs?

You're bitching because you had to pay a small part of your professional training costs and it's the old cunts that are bludgers? :laugh: The fact that the training regime was a completely different shape a generation ago is irrelevant, eh? Just as long as nobody's getting something you're not.

Your entitlement complex is almost indistinguishable under the weight of your jealousy.


As for free education, nothing, but nothing is free. What you presumably mean is an education paid for by taxpayers. And at last count taxpayers were managing around 86% of that cost, not bad, and not much different to what they've always managed. But you rant on, don't let the facts slow you down any.

[Voltaire]

Well duh.... I still end up paying $90,000 for something which the mega earners in the health system - got for free. I will end up paying higher taxes when they increase them again to cover for the pensions of your generation and all its hand outs and splurges such as free education. But thats all good for you aint it? Cos you're part of the bludger generation! :tugger::tugger:

I don't really care too much about my own circumstances, I've planned and prepared for it. But it pisses me off to see you old farts never fucking happy with making more $$$ from cutting MORE things for the younger ones, such as FREE PUBLIC EDUCATION at primary and secondary school. When will you greedy fucks ever be happy with what you have and think about the future of the country rather than your ungrateful selfs?

Bludger Generation.....nice. Not everyone went to University. I still don't trust anyone with a suit ....I've only worn mine twice since I bought it :rolleyes:....don't have a tie but...:lol:

[Oscar]

So you didn't eat or read or travel to etc.... your educational institute? Irrelevant? I see you're living up to what you make yourself out to be. But you are funny at times.
bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaa.

Nope. My concern is evident to many.

Your concern is that you are terrified that someone got something you didn't.
That would be your education - it is plain to all concerned that you lack the education and/or wit to argue a point without resorting to argumentum ad hominem or simple statements of propaganda.

I had to work whilst I was at university coz I couldn't afford to live otherwise.
So I paid taxes.
Plenty of taxes.

And what you numbnuts seem to forget is that, sure there are student loans and such things these days, but:

1. It doesn't cover the full cost of the education - the balance is picked up by the taxpayer.
2. Back when education was "free" people paid a shitload more taxes than they do now.

[mashman]

Your concern is that you are terrified that someone got something you didn't.
That would be your education - it is plain to all concerned that you lack the education and/or wit to argue a point without resorting to argumentum ad hominem or simple statements of propaganda.

I had to work whilst I was at university coz I couldn't afford to live otherwise.
So I paid taxes.
Plenty of taxes.

And what you numbnuts seem to forget is that, sure there are student loans and such things these days, but:

1. It doesn't cover the full cost of the education - the balance is picked up by the taxpayer.
2. Back when education was "free" people paid a shitload more taxes than they do now.

bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa... if I want stuff, I go contracting.
Oh dear oscar, my education is vastly superior to your own, because I accept that others know things that I don't. As for the "attacks", other than pot kettle black, bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaa.

So did I. I also had a kid and a g/f who had a p/t job and I also took on a p/t job (which I had to miss lectures for) in order to have nothing. We often raked the back of the sofa for cash for nappies, chips and bread. I often walked the 8 mile round journey to university. I am now in a comfortable position. I've done the same hard yards as yourself and don't feel the need to use it to belittle an argument, other than to highlight that the financial struggle was unnecessary but a requirement of your society... and to this day that sort of financial struggle is unnecessary if you really want a society of people to contribute to society etc... I pay plenty of tax too.

I used to work for the Student Loans Company in Scotland and often interacted with the business. Wanna tell me again what I do and do not take for granted?

Dear oscar, thanks you kindly for the lulz when writing this.

[cowpoos]

whats with the minor partys, pretending they can throw money at this and that?? hollow promises really....unbudgeted for...they will never hold the fiscal abilities to do so. Quite laughable really!! :laugh:

[Oscar]

bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa... if I want stuff, I go contracting.
Oh dear oscar, my education is vastly superior to your own, because I accept that others know things that I don't. As for the "attacks", other than pot kettle black, bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaa.

So did I. I also had a kid and a g/f who had a p/t job and I also took on a p/t job (which I had to miss lectures for) in order to have nothing. We often raked the back of the sofa for cash for nappies, chips and bread. I often walked the 8 mile round journey to university. I am now in a comfortable position. I've done the same hard yards as yourself and don't feel the need to use it to belittle an argument, other than to highlight that the financial struggle was unnecessary but a requirement of your society... and to this day that sort of financial struggle is unnecessary if you really want a society of people to contribute to society etc... I pay plenty of tax too.

I used to work for the Student Loans Company in Scotland and often interacted with the business. Wanna tell me again what I do and do not take for granted?

Dear oscar, thanks you kindly for the lulz when writing this.

Do actually read what you write?
I was replying to a comment about the cost of education and you start tossing off about travel and eating...
Now you have basically confirmed everything I've said - so what was your point?

This, though I will treasure:

Oh dear oscar, my education is vastly superior to your own, because I accept that others know things that I don't.
It is the single stupidest thing you've said here (and that's saying something).
You spend most of your time here telling people how wrong they are and steadfastly refuse to engage their arguments, so the think you accept is that you just know better.
You are as pretentious and stupid as most zealots who kid themselves that their failure in the world is anyones' fault but their own.

[Oscar]

whats with the minor partys, pretending they can throw money at this and that?? hollow promises really....unbudgeted for...they will never hold the fiscal abilities to do so. Quite laughable really!! :laugh:

It's a time honoured tradition.
It's like Mashy's whacky theories - no ones ever gonna let him get near power so he can say owt he likes...

[Ocean1]

whats with the minor partys, pretending they can throw money at this and that?? hollow promises really....unbudgeted for...they will never hold the fiscal abilities to do so. Quite laughable really!! :laugh:

Like this? http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10367816/Labour-announces-big-health-boost

Simple really, the less likely they are to be held to their promises the more outrageous the promises can safely get.

[mashman]

Do actually read what you write?
I was replying to a comment about the cost of education and you start tossing off about travel and eating...
Now you have basically confirmed everything I've said - so what was your point?

This, though I will treasure:

It is the single stupidest thing you've said here (and that's saying something).
You spend most of your time here telling people how wrong they are and steadfastly refuse to engage their arguments, so the think you accept is that you just know better.
You are as pretentious and stupid as most zealots who kid themselves that their failure in the world is anyones' fault but their own.

Oh ironing.
You said that it was irrelevant. It's not.
You know nothing.

Of course you will, because you didn't understand what it meant.

Ironing.
Oh for fucksake I need a new ironingometer now...


you just know better


the single stupidest thing you've said here


my education is vastly superior to your own, because I accept that others know things that I don't

I'm not a failure. Ironing@fault.

[mashman]

It's like Mashy's whacky theories - no ones ever gonna let him get near power so he can say owt he likes...

They ain't just mine and the number is growing and will continue to do so. I don't want power. There's more of me coming :yes:

[mada]

You're bitching because you had to pay a small part of your professional training costs and it's the old cunts that are bludgers? :laugh: The fact that the training regime was a completely different shape a generation ago is irrelevant, eh? Just as long as nobody's getting something you're not.

Your entitlement complex is almost indistinguishable under the weight of your jealousy.


As for free education, nothing, but nothing is free. What you presumably mean is an education paid for by taxpayers. And at last count taxpayers were managing around 86% of that cost, not bad, and not much different to what they've always managed. But you rant on, don't let the facts slow you down any.


Yep nothing in life is free and the majority of everything you have done in your life one way or another has been sponsored by the taxpayer. Don't try and give me the "I made all the opportunities in my life, without the help of a free birth, education, protected economy, gst" bullshit. :violin::violin:

You some how mistake jealously for me merely stating the facts that in life you and many older people enjoyed a far greater free ride on the taxpayer than any other generation before or since compared to the CONTRIBUTIONS (both socially and financially) made to society. I'm not jealous of being a stingy self centred greedy cunt that's never happy no matter how much $$ they have. Sorry mate, I don't aspire to be posting on forums later on in life telling others "you never had it as hard as us, so don't moan about all the bludging we do, and us selling everything off including primary and secondary school education, by the way reduce my rego costs its not fair that I pay soo much". I'll leave it to hypocrites like you.:drinknsin

[Ocean1]

I'm not jealous of being a stingy self centred greedy cunt that's never happy no matter how much $$ they have.

Probably a good thing really, you can't afford to be.

[mada]

Probably a good thing really, you can't afford to be.

Nice assumption, my bank balance from years of working suggests otherwise.:niceone:

[puddytat]

whats with the minor partys, pretending they can throw money at this and that?? hollow promises really....unbudgeted for...they will never hold the fiscal abilities to do so. Quite laughable really!! :laugh:

Well...If the Nats can borrow 350 mil a week they're thinking that they will have that to play with as well.

[yokel]

whats with the minor partys, pretending they can throw money at this and that?? hollow promises really....unbudgeted for...they will never hold the fiscal abilities to do so. Quite laughable really!! :laugh:

there is now a broader range of partys for a broader range of idiots.
just look at the internet party.

the government is a small group of idiots voted in by a bigger group of idiots.

[yokel]

Your concern is that you are terrified that someone got something you didn't.
That would be your education - it is plain to all concerned that you lack the education and/or wit to argue a point without resorting to argumentum ad hominem or simple statements of propaganda.

I had to work whilst I was at university coz I couldn't afford to live otherwise.
So I paid taxes.
Plenty of taxes.

And what you numbnuts seem to forget is that, sure there are student loans and such things these days, but:

1. It doesn't cover the full cost of the education - the balance is picked up by the taxpayer.
2. Back when education was "free" people paid a shitload more taxes than they do now.

You know I never understood the concept of borrowing a bunch of money (well I do now) to go and get educated to work for some other cunt.

life is a game and if you're paying taxes the game is playing you

[Oscar]

Oh ironing.
You said that it was irrelevant. It's not.
You know nothing.

Of course you will, because you didn't understand what it meant.

Ironing.
Oh for fucksake I need a new ironingometer now...







I'm not a failure. Ironing@fault.

So you've got nothing...tell us again how educated you are.

[mashman]

So you've got nothing...tell us again how educated you are.

Nothing you understand in other words... so obviously to an exponentially higher degree than you make yourself out to be.

[Oscar]

Nothing you understand in other words... so obviously to an exponentially higher degree than you make yourself out to be.

Oh dear.
The crux of your argument, summed up in your own words is:


It's not.
You know nothing.

You make some stupid comment about education fees and then procede to go around in circles.
You are very silly.

[mashman]

Oh dear.
The crux of your argument, sumed up in your own words is:



You make some stupid comment about education fees and then procede to go around in circles.
You are very silly.

Stupid comment. I rest my case.

[Brian d marge]

Wow, you must get tired jumping to stupid conclusions.
Due to my immigration status, what tertiary education I had in NZ, I paid for myself.

So no I didn't take advantage of anything.

If you were in a university before the reforms of the early to mis 80s , Even IF you paided full wack , the courses were cheaper due to the funding model applied at that time . Enter The Shipley , and the model changed , off top of head , doctoring went from 1000 per year to 10 000 and dentistry went to 23000

and you didnt leave with a loan into 30 to 50 000 dollar mark , with interest on that each year .....no the fees were much cheaper allowing one to stand a chance of paying them ,

Did we take advantage of a busary , and maybe work part time ... live at home did we???

or did we work full time and study in the evenings .....


I smell bullshit , mixed with liberal doses of stupid

Stephen

[Shaun Harris]

Just for a laugh and to kill a bit of time before Motogp starts.

Why should university students not have to pay for there own education and future chosen proffessional carreer paths that they will earn serious money from?

Engineers, mechanics, plumbers, electricians, Trades People, just as important as any field learned at university have to pay a shit load in terms of labour supplied for a piss poor income whilst they are learning how to become trades people to take care of our world for us, so they are paying in a round about way.


Now we come to university trades people as such, ( Lawyer $200-00 Phr + + ) when you finish YOUR chosen education path to a career YOU choose, in theory you will be on a good healthy income, so why should you not have to pay towards your own healthy financual future, just because years and years ago your granny or grand pa did not have to, so what folks, the world has changed.

If a farmer wants to earn more money, they have to borrow more money to buy more stock and PAY the bank interest on the loan for there chosen Proffessional career path, so what is the dam difference?
If you do not like it, become a painter or an electrician, but you will still pay for your training/education by getting paid shit hourly rate for a few years of your training for a hard 40+ hour working week.

[yokel]

If you were in a university before the reforms of the early to mis 80s , Even IF you paided full wack , the courses were cheaper due to the funding model applied at that time . Enter The Shipley , and the model changed , off top of head , doctoring went from 1000 per year to 10 000 and dentistry went to 23000

and you didnt leave with a loan into 30 to 50 000 dollar mark , with interest on that each year .....no the fees were much cheaper allowing one to stand a chance of paying them ,

Did we take advantage of a busary , and maybe work part time ... live at home did we???

or did we work full time and study in the evenings .....


I smell bullshit , mixed with liberal doses of stupid

Stephen

People that wave their "education" around like it's something to behold are fools.
only real benefit is the potential to buy more useless crap to than someone else

[Woodman]

Just for a laugh and to kill a bit of time before Motogp starts.

Why should university students not have to pay for there own education and future chosen proffessional carreer paths that they will earn serious money from?

Engineers, mechanics, plumbers, electricians, Trades People, just as important as any field learned at university have to pay a shit load in terms of labour supplied for a piss poor income whilst they are learning how to become trades people to take care of our world for us, so they are paying in a round about way.


Now we come to university trades people as such, ( Lawyer $200-00 Phr + + ) when you finish YOUR chosen education path to a career YOU choose, in theory you will be on a good healthy income, so why should you not have to pay towards your own healthy financual future, just because years and years ago your granny or grand pa did not have to, so what folks, the world has changed.

If a farmer wants to earn more money, they have to borrow more money to buy more stock and PAY the bank interest on the loan for there chosen Proffessional career path, so what is the dam difference?
If you do not like it, become a painter or an electrician, but you will still pay for your training/education by getting paid shit hourly rate for a few years of your training for a hard 40+ hour working week.

Agree, its a bit elitist of the guys on here thinking that "educated" people should not have student loans, yet "'working" people should have to borrow just as much to start a trade business.

[bogan]

Big picture, look at it as a govt investment, educated people make the big bucks so govt gets the big tax (loopholes notwithstanding).

Practical picture, judging by some wasters who go to uni to fuck around, free education is going to make shit all difference to ROI from the actual educated ones. Better off spending that money on ensuring the education they get is of better quality.

I haven't been paying that much attention, is labour trying to vote buy the students again?

[mashman]

People that wave their "education" around like it's something to behold are fools.
only real benefit is the potential to buy more useless crap to than someone else

Slaves to history and convention.

[Ocean1]

I haven't been paying that much attention, is labour trying to vote buy the students again?

Oh no, the local village idiots don't need an actual reason to bitch about having to pay for anything themselves.

Which is, as ever, everyone else's fault. In fact it's unlikely the changes to tertiary education in question would have made it through if the voters supporting them weren't heartily sick and tired of paying for the thousands of BAs majoring in Art History that had no chance of ever repaying that debt, and in fact no intention of ever doing so.

I remember thinking at the time that a fairly large and expensive slice of self-perpetuating academia was probably now mercifully redundant. I was probably wrong, having since seen the huge growth in culturally oriented underwater basket weaving courses sold to prospective tourism industry employees. I was obviously wrong about the sort of people that spent other's money unwisely too, idiots will waste their own just as quickly.

[Oscar]

If you were in a university before the reforms of the early to mis 80s , Even IF you paided full wack , the courses were cheaper due to the funding model applied at that time . Enter The Shipley , and the model changed , off top of head , doctoring went from 1000 per year to 10 000 and dentistry went to 23000

and you didnt leave with a loan into 30 to 50 000 dollar mark , with interest on that each year .....no the fees were much cheaper allowing one to stand a chance of paying them ,

Did we take advantage of a busary , and maybe work part time ... live at home did we???

or did we work full time and study in the evenings .....


I smell bullshit , mixed with liberal doses of stupid

Stephen

Someone with your reading comprehension, spelling and grammar skills is ill-advised to call anyone stupid.
If you have a student loan, you could probably make a case for a refund by showing the authorities the drivel that you post here.

[Oscar]

Just for a laugh and to kill a bit of time before Motogp starts.

Why should university students not have to pay for there own education and future chosen proffessional carreer paths that they will earn serious money from?

Engineers, mechanics, plumbers, electricians, Trades People, just as important as any field learned at university have to pay a shit load in terms of labour supplied for a piss poor income whilst they are learning how to become trades people to take care of our world for us, so they are paying in a round about way.


Now we come to university trades people as such, ( Lawyer $200-00 Phr + + ) when you finish YOUR chosen education path to a career YOU choose, in theory you will be on a good healthy income, so why should you not have to pay towards your own healthy financual future, just because years and years ago your granny or grand pa did not have to, so what folks, the world has changed.

If a farmer wants to earn more money, they have to borrow more money to buy more stock and PAY the bank interest on the loan for there chosen Proffessional career path, so what is the dam difference?
If you do not like it, become a painter or an electrician, but you will still pay for your training/education by getting paid shit hourly rate for a few years of your training for a hard 40+ hour working week.

Well said, that man.
Plus you could add in the Doctors and Dentists who, having received their subsidised education, fuck off overseas for the bigger bucks..

[MisterD]

Agree, its a bit elitist of the guys on here thinking that "educated" people should not have student loans, yet "'working" people should have to borrow just as much to start a trade business.

"Elitist" is thinking that University education could continue to be subsidised, if we we limited it to people clever enough to get in. An degree might still be worth something, if that were the case.

This whole thing of maximising the number of people that go to University has acheived precisely two things: degrees worth squat and student debt.

[oldrider]

"Elitist" is thinking that University education could continue to be subsidised, if we we limited it to people clever enough to get in. An degree might still be worth something, if that were the case.

This whole thing of maximising the number of people that go to University has acheived precisely two things: degrees worth squat and student debt.

I think you will find University has always been accessable "past age of majority and subject to cost"! (user pays)

I may be wrong but that was my understanding (way) back in the day! :confused:

[Shaun Harris]

Well said, that man.
Plus you could add in the Doctors and Dentists who, having received their subsidised education, fuck off overseas for the bigger bucks..






And do not pay there loans back untill we the tax payer has wasted a shit load more money chasing them for what they owe us

[avgas]

People that wave their "education" around like it's something to behold are fools.
only real benefit is the potential to buy more useless crap to than someone else
Yes - think of all that time those youth could be plowing fields or whittling.

[mashman]

And do not pay there loans back untill we the tax payer has wasted a shit load more money chasing them for what they owe us

So make education free again and there will be no need to chase them.

[Shaun Harris]

So make education free again and there will be no need to chase them.



At the exspense of what then? junior school? Hospital care? Roading? and please do not be rash and suggest less and lower paid MP people! The past is the past dude stop living in it and move on

[Oscar]

So make education free again and there will be no need to chase them.

Nothing is free.
Someone pays.
The highest personal tax rate from 1955 -1985 ranged between 50% & 68%.
And before you start blathering about GST - there was sales tax on everything.

[mashman]

Nothing is free.
Someone pays.
The highest personal tax rate from 1955 -1985 ranged between 50% & 68%.
And before you start blathering about GST - there was sales tax on everything.

It would be free for the person that wants to undertake further education. We're all going to benefit.
Yes it will be paid for.
I seem to remember it was around 90% in the UK for quite some time.
Meh.

[Oscar]

It would be free for the person that wants to undertake further education. We're all going to benefit.
Yes it will be paid for.
I seem to remember it was around 90% in the UK for quite some time.
Meh.

So the teachers are working for nothing?

[mashman]

So the teachers are working for nothing?

Not sure how you infer that from:



It would be free for the person that wants to undertake further education.

Yes it will be paid for.

[Oscar]

Not sure how you infer that from:

So who is paying then?

[yokel]

So who is paying then?

We all are and It's nothing to do with who should pay and all about making you a good little taxed debit slave, just like the national debit.
If you choose to take on a debit you are choosing to pay it off in full

[mashman]

So who is paying then?

The banks.

[Oscar]

The banks.

So basically you want someone else to pay.

[Brian d marge]

Someone with your reading comprehension, spelling and grammar skills is ill-advised to call anyone stupid.
If you have a student loan, you could probably make a case for a refund by showing the authorities the drivel that you post here.

Well my reading skills and comprehension seems to leagues above yours , You seem to be unable ( or cant understand ) a simple point or question.

Ill try again,

Due to the change in the funding model of the fourth national government ( Dearest Ruth). Tertiary fees went up considerably,

So..... IF you were in tertiary education BEFORE the cuts of the fourth national government YOU had CHEAPER fees and were therefore in a better position to pay

So even IF you did pay for your fees by the sweat of your brow they were considerably cheaper ( doctorin, up from 1000 to 10 000..... teeth fixing ...up to 23 000)

So my dearest Oscar ,,,, either A. Put up ....or B, Shut up

Stephen

[Shaun Harris]

[QUOTE=Brian d marge;1130758366]Well my reading skills and comprehension seems to leagues above yours , You seem to be unable ( or cant understand ) a simple point or question.

Ill try again,

Due to the change in the funding model of the fourth national government ( Dearest Ruth). Tertiary fees went up considerably,

So..... IF you were in tertiary education BEFORE the cuts of the fourth national government YOU had CHEAPER fees and were therefore in a better position to pay

So even IF you did pay for your fees by the sweat of your brow they were considerably cheaper ( doctorin, up from 1000 to 10 000..... teeth fixing ...up to 23 000)

So my dearest Oscar ,,,, either A. Put up ....or B, Shut up







Hai, wakarimashta Brian san, Gumbatte ne

[Brian d marge]

At the exspense of what then? junior school? Hospital care? Roading? and please do not be rash and suggest less and lower paid MP people! The past is the past dude stop living in it and move on

The thing about education is that it has wider effects

The more you educate people the better choices they are able to make, as well as a better income. A reduction in crime , better health , better MPs ,,,, environment ...a stronger middle class ( taxable) , the list

If you open a Motorbike shop, you need to be educated , in both Business and motorcycles ( see the above)

If you borrow the money to open said bike shop then you the individual takes the risk and if the shop is successful then the youll pay higher taxes and you will help a small part of the community , ie your customers and yourself

Another way of putting this , ,,, If a teacher borrows money to educate themselves the effects of the money are widely felt ...

If a surf and ski shop borrows money , then the effects of that loan are only felt by the customers and the said owner.


Stephen

[Shaun Harris]

The thing about education is that it has wider effects

The more you educate people the better choices they are able to make, as well as a better income. A reduction in crime , better health , better MPs ,,,, environment ...a stronger middle class ( taxable) , the list

If you open a Motorbike shop, you need to be educated , in both Business and motorcycles ( see the above)

If you borrow the money to open said bike shop then you the individual takes the risk and if the shop is successful then the youll pay higher taxes and you will help a small part of the community , ie your customers and yourself

Another way of putting this , ,,, If a teacher borrows money to educate themselves the effects of the money are widely felt ...

If a surf and ski shop borrows money , then the effects of that loan are only felt by the customers and the said owner.


Stephen







Now just stop this so called intelligent thinking Stephen, unless you paid for it yourself of course. I only managed one term in my high school years of education, guess my gramahr and spelling gives that away though. I was to busy working to get girl students drunk so I could route them

[Brian d marge]

As for students buggering of overseas.

When the funding model changes and the cost were front loaded onto the user i,e the USER pays , then the now in-debt user has 2 options

Dont pay it

pay it

Remember when the loan scheme started there was interest on the loan , your debt got bigger each year if you didn't pay ....

So most right thinking people went where the work was ......... Not in NZ

ooohhh I didnt see that happening , the IMF told us it would be all ok .......

Stephen

[HenryDorsetCase]

Now just stop this so called intelligent thinking Stephen, unless you paid for it yourself of course. I only managed one term in my high school years of education, guess my gramahr and spelling gives that away though. I was to busy working to get girl students drunk so I could route them

does "route" in this context mean "give directions"?

[mada]

At the exspense of what then? junior school? Hospital care? Roading? and please do not be rash and suggest less and lower paid MP people! The past is the past dude stop living in it and move on

We are a small market when it comes to health, we cannot compete with foreign wages like UK, AUS, Canada. Why would students have any loyalty to staying here if they pay the same amount in fees as students in those countries and then end up with a job paying half as much?

The simple answer to solve that problem: make it free and then pay them a shit load less than the present and bond them. Anyone who buggers off overseas would incur the full debt and interest.

The savings for the health system would be huge.

[HenryDorsetCase]

We are a small market when it comes to health, we cannot compete with foreign wages like UK, AUS, Canada. Why would students have any loyalty to staying here if they pay the same amount in fees as students in those countries and then end up with a job paying half as much?

The simple answer to solve that problem: make it free and then pay them a shit load less than the present and bond them. Anyone who buggers off overseas would incur the full debt and interest.

The savings for the health system would be huge.

I'd like to see the numbers on that because (OTOH) the number of actual doctors in the system is not that great. All medical specialists I know or know of (not a great many admittedly) have worked or trained overseas. Often because they have to to pursue their desired specialty. ALL of them could make more coin elsewhere but choose to live here generally because they can make decent coin but perceive NZ as a good place to live for child rearing or other lifestyle reasons. But think of all the other high paid people in the health sector. In particular the bureaucrats that administer a bizzarely complex system. My personal view is that they current system is untenable and proven unworkable but its such a politcal hot potato that they just tinker round the edges with it. Meanwhile people like (say) nurses get shafted.

[Brian d marge]

does "route" in this context mean "give directions"?

in this case yes , the route from the sofa to the bedroom

Stephen

or in my case from the front seat to the back seat

[mada]

I'd like to see the numbers on that because (OTOH) the number of actual doctors in the system is not that great. All medical specialists I know or know of (not a great many admittedly) have worked or trained overseas. Often because they have to to pursue their desired specialty. ALL of them could make more coin elsewhere but choose to live here generally because they can make decent coin but perceive NZ as a good place to live for child rearing or other lifestyle reasons. But think of all the other high paid people in the health sector. In particular the bureaucrats that administer a bizzarely complex system. My personal view is that they current system is untenable and proven unworkable but its such a politcal hot potato that they just tinker round the edges with it. Meanwhile people like (say) nurses get shafted.

Agree. Some do come back for the lifestyle. But many don't. Nurses certainly get the roughest end of the stick when it comes to working conditions in NZ hospitals - and now there is an "over supply" due to govt. telling everyone for years go into it there will be a job (while flooding the market with migrants from India, Philippines etc).

Article with some numbers.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/3925735/Student-debt-drives-medical-graduates-overseas

Bare in mind that's four years old, so the costs are much higher than $75,000 now.

Every single part of the public service, not just health is untenable. There are extremely high "average" wages, but these are due to a shit load of top heavy high earning Execs and managers of all sorts that do sweet f all. Too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

Things are even better with National - they bought in a rule recently that after 7 years of study you no longer qualify for a student loan. To supposedly target "bum students".

Approx 25% of medical students are postgraduates (so a good 50 - 60 medical students each year x 5 years = 250 - 300+ students affected). These students are generally more mature and have better life experience than their counterparts, more likely to work in Rural Health (that has massive shortages) and as GP's (again shortages). But in their 4th - 5th years they can no longer get a student loan. The minister Joyce claims that they should be able to scrimp one off the banks.... yeh right, like any bank is going to lend to a person on the assumption that they "may" pass. So in the end the govt. is going to have a shit load of medical students who may not finish their studies - putting to waste the millions of dollars they have pumped into them.

[mashman]

So basically you want someone else to pay.

Nope. I want no one to pay, I want everyone to be educated to the highest degree that they choose to be educated to. Pretty sure I've made that clear. But to answer what you probably mean, if business wants "educated" employees, then they should fuckin well pay for it. They won't, because A) they're libertarianesque tight bastards that see the responsibility of education as the responsibility of the individual, yet moan and bitch about the standard of the candidates, Bannanna: they don't have the money, Irony) they blame the individual for everything, yet will pay as little as corporately possible towards the coffers that subsidise the education system that produces their future employees and many many more stupid reasons that all basically come down to money. Fuck the education if it can't be afforded be the mantra with a side helping of someone else i.e. the individuals without money, should pay for it. I lol.

[yokel]

Nope. I want no one to pay, I want everyone to be educated to the highest degree that they choose to be educated to. Pretty sure I've made that clear. But to answer what you probably mean, if business wants "educated" employees, then they should fuckin well pay for it. They won't, because A) they're libertarianesque tight bastards that see the responsibility of education as the responsibility of the individual, yet moan and bitch about the standard of the candidates, Bannanna: they don't have the money, Irony) they blame the individual for everything, yet will pay as little as corporately possible towards the coffers that subsidise the education system that produces their future employees and many many more stupid reasons that all basically come down to money. Fuck the education if it can't be afforded be the mantra with a side helping of someone else i.e. the individuals without money, should pay for it. I lol.

you'd think with all the automation we gots theses days that we should only have to work 20 hours a week tops! haha
we are getting fucking ripped off somewhere along the lines

for me the fuck up started with woman being let out of the house and in to the labour market, over supply of labour equals less pay.
we are now paying the price for that.

I still remember the TV adds when I was a kid about getting woman into the work force.

[Oscar]

Nope. I want no one to pay, I want everyone to be educated to the highest degree that they choose to be educated to. Pretty sure I've made that clear. But to answer what you probably mean, if business wants "educated" employees, then they should fuckin well pay for it. They won't, because A) they're libertarianesque tight bastards that see the responsibility of education as the responsibility of the individual, yet moan and bitch about the standard of the candidates, Bannanna: they don't have the money, Irony) they blame the individual for everything, yet will pay as little as corporately possible towards the coffers that subsidise the education system that produces their future employees and many many more stupid reasons that all basically come down to money. Fuck the education if it can't be afforded be the mantra with a side helping of someone else i.e. the individuals without money, should pay for it. I lol.


This is the single dumbest thing you have ever posted (and that is saying a lot).
So if the employer pays, no one pays?
You don't think that the company in question might build that into their overheads?
So the buying public pay more?

What about the State?
The Health System should pay for Doctors and the Justice System pay for Judges?
Where does that money come from?
Let me guess - taxes. but you said no one pays.

Social Workers? Do the benificaries pay?

If my employer pays for my education and I wanna leave, what happens?
My new employer pays my old employer?

[Oscar]

Well my reading skills and comprehension seems to leagues above yours , You seem to be unable ( or cant understand ) a simple point or question.

Ill try again,

Due to the change in the funding model of the fourth national government ( Dearest Ruth). Tertiary fees went up considerably,

So..... IF you were in tertiary education BEFORE the cuts of the fourth national government YOU had CHEAPER fees and were therefore in a better position to pay

So even IF you did pay for your fees by the sweat of your brow they were considerably cheaper ( doctorin, up from 1000 to 10 000..... teeth fixing ...up to 23 000)

So my dearest Oscar ,,,, either A. Put up ....or B, Shut up

Stephen

Put up what, you numpty?
Just for arguments sake, it was before St. Ruth.
What fucking difference does it make?
As I recall you were responding to a post I made about political leanings as a kid.
What has that got to do with what I paid for my education?

Do you ever have a fucking point?

[yokel]

This is the single dumbest thing you have ever posted (and that is saying a lot).
So if the employer pays, no one pays?
You don't think that the company in question might build that into their overheads?
So the buying public pay more?

What about the State?
The Health System should pay for Doctors and the Justice System pay for Judges?
Where does that money come from?
Let me guess - taxes. but you said no one pays.

Social Workers? Do the benificaries pay?

If my employer pays for my education and I wanna leave, what happens?
My new employer pays my old employer?

It doesnt matter who pays, the whole system is fucked now.

you need to come to terms with the fact that you were played for a fool.

[Oscar]

It doesnt matter who pays, the whole system is fucked now.

you need to come to terms with the fact that you were played for a fool.

I have no debt and nine motorcycles.
The only time I was foolish was the Dnepr purchase.

[Shaun Harris]

funny how this thread about intelligence ( Kind of) has turned into I can swear more than you can FUKIN thread

[yokel]

I have no debt and nine motorcycles.
The only time I was foolish was the Dnepr purchase.

so you got 9 motorcycles and no debit and you want someone to pay for your education? are you high?

fooled only time one?? yeah right

[Oscar]

so you got 9 motorcycles and no debit and you want someone to pay for your education? are you high?

fooled only time one?? yeah right

I paid for my education long ago.

[Oscar]

funny how this thread about intelligence ( Kind of) has turned into I can swear more than you can FUKIN thread

Just about every thread I post in end up with swearing in it.

[mashman]

This is the single dumbest thing you have ever posted (and that is saying a lot).
So if the employer pays, no one pays?
You don't think that the company in question might build that into their overheads?
So the buying public pay more?

What about the State?
The Health System should pay for Doctors and the Justice System pay for Judges?
Where does that money come from?
Let me guess - taxes. but you said no one pays.

Social Workers? Do the benificaries pay?

If my employer pays for my education and I wanna leave, what happens?
My new employer pays my old employer?

Oh I see, you're one of those who think that someone else should pay.

[mashman]

funny how this thread about intelligence ( Kind of) has turned into I can swear more than you can FUKIN thread

Intelligence? bwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa.

[Brian d marge]

Put up what, you numpty?
Just for arguments sake, it was before St. Ruth.
What fucking difference does it make?
As I recall you were responding to a post I made about political leanings as a kid.
What has that got to do with what I paid for my education?

Do you ever have a fucking point?

so basically you worked hard and paid your way through life ...is bollox

And that your right leaning views might also be ...bollox


Stephen

[yokel]

I paid for my education long ago.

So whats the story? You got 9 motorcycles justify your existence and you're still a miserable cunt?

[Oscar]

so basically you worked hard and paid your way through life ...is bollox

And that your right leaning views might also be ...bollox


Stephen


Nice argument.
Well, you've convinced me with your eloquent word play and well thought out arguments.
I'm going to shave my head and give all my money away.

[Oscar]

So whats the story? You got 9 motorcycles justify your existence and you're still a miserable cunt?

I'm quite a generous cunt actually and I don't need to justify my existence to twats like you on the interweb.

[Ocean1]

The more you educate people the better choices they are able to make,

Might I just say: Bollox.

You don't produce people that make good decisions by educating them.

You make educated people by beginning with people who make good choices.

Get your causal links sorted.

[Brian d marge]

Nice argument.
Well, you've convinced me with your eloquent word play and well thought out arguments.
I'm going to shave my head and give all my money away.
Now you know thats not true

You dont need to shave

[Oscar]

Oh I see, you're one of those who think that someone else should pay.

Evasion won't answer the obvious questions that your stupid plan brings up.

[Ocean1]

I'm quite a generous cunt actually and I don't need to justify my existence to twats like you on the interweb.

Give us your 990 then, cunt!

[Ocean1]

so basically you worked hard and paid your way through life ...is bollox

And that your right leaning views might also be ...bollox


Stephen

As a matter of interest how many people do you think actually deserve the income they have?

[Oscar]

Give us your 990 then, cunt!

It's a 950.
Seriously, if I had a 990, I'd give it to you, but whaddya gonna do....

[yokel]

I'm quite a generous cunt actually and I don't need to justify my existence to twats like you on the interweb.

If you're being generous with money that don't count.

[mashman]

Evasion won't answer the obvious questions that your stupid plan brings up.

It wasn't a plan, it was yet another futile attempt to highlight just how stupid and unworkable every single policy really is when it is curtailed by a financial system. It matters not how you slice or dice it (i.e. structure who pays), it is doomed to failure. The stupidity is all yours I assure you.

[Ocean1]

It's a 950.
Seriously, if I had a 990, I'd give it to you, but whaddya gonna do....

Hit stuff. It's what I do.

[Woodman]

So what do you fucktards think Oscar should have done? Paid more for his education? or paid nothing?

[Oscar]

It wasn't a plan, it was yet another futile attempt to highlight just how stupid and unworkable every single policy really is when it is curtailed by a financial system. It matters not how you slice or dice it (i.e. structure who pays), it is doomed to failure. The stupidity is all yours I assure you.

So it's another futile theory of yours?
I get the impression you think that everyone else is wrong and you're right?




You might wanna check the dosage...

[mashman]

Might I just say: Bollox.

You don't produce people that make good decisions by educating them.

You make educated people by beginning with people who make good choices.

Get your causal links sorted.

bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa... read that in a book did you myopic morris.

[mashman]

If you're being generous with money that don't count.

One has to appease ones conscience somehow.

[Oscar]

If you're being generous with money that don't count.

I am generous with opinions.
I give them away all the time...

[Oscar]

One has to appease ones conscience somehow.

Some guilty secrets bothering you?
Unburden yourself...

[Oscar]

Hit stuff. It's what I do.

I've hit the ground a coupla times with my 950.
Sometimes it's hard to avoid.

[Brian d marge]

Hit stuff. It's what I do.


As a matter of interest how many people do you think actually deserve the income they have?
Most hardworking kiwi battlers

The ones meet day in and day out

[mashman]

So it's another futile theory of yours?
I get the impression you think that everyone else is wrong and you're right?




You might wanna check the dosage...

It wasn't even a theory :facepalm:
You're the only one competing here.


If I have to listen to any more of your thoughtless tripe, I'll have to try something much stronger.

[mashman]

Some guilty secrets bothering you?
Unburden yourself...

Nope........

[Oscar]

It wasn't even a theory :facepalm:
You're the only one competing here.


If I have to listen to any more of your thoughtless tripe, I'll have to try something much stronger.

I love this - you disown an idiotic theory banged out in the heat of the moment and then say I'm talking tripe?
Come on, give us another one - you can do it.
Tell us how Mr. Nobody is gonna pay for my degree...:facepalm:

[Oscar]

Most hardworking kiwi battlers

The ones meet day in and day out

In Epsom?


Remmers maybe?

Some battlers thereabouts...

[Brian d marge]

So what do you fucktards think Oscar should have done? Paid more for his education? or paid nothing?
Wasnt the point

But ideally free or heavily subsidized so that the costs of his education are not bourne by a few but by the larger community
Better for everyone in the long run

[mada]

Gotta love that trickle down effect.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11307316


Money tipped into pokie machines in the poorest parts of Auckland doesn't come back to those communities in gaming grants, new data shows.

In contrast, the wealthiest areas gamble far less but take a disproportionate amount of money out of other areas. This has been greeted as proof of a long-stated but never-proven claim about pokies - that the poor get poorer but the rich get richer.

The Auckland Council research is behind a challenge to government plans to ringfence 80 per cent of pokie grant distribution inside large regional areas. Instead, it wants a special system for distributing pokie grants inside Auckland which will allow the poorest areas to benefit from money gambled locally.

The research shows the biggest pokie players in Auckland are in the Otara-Papatoetoe area, putting $274 per person into gaming machines.

The area also rates among the highest in the region on the NZ Deprivation Index.
Residents in Orakei, Auckland's least deprived area, spend $49 each.



Orakei gets a 152 per cent return on money available for gaming grants in its own area - meaning the money returned comes from other areas.

The most successful is the Albert-Eden board area, which stretches from Pt Chevalier to Epsom. It gets a 176 per cent return.

The Mangere-Otahuhu area had the worst return - community groups and other worthy projects picked up 22 per cent of the grants money available for distribution


:third:

[mashman]

I love this - you disown an idiotic theory banged out in the heat of the moment and then say I'm talking tripe?
Come on, give us another one - you can do it.
Tell us how Mr. Nobody is gonna pay for my degree...:facepalm:

If it's an idiotic theory, them I'm afraid to tell you that those practices are current.
If you knew what your were talking about I most definitely would.
I told you, the banks.

[Brian d marge]

Gotta love that trickle down effect.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11307316



:third:
Try a tesco tax

[Ocean1]

Most hardworking kiwi battlers

The ones meet day in and day out

I agree. If we're talking post-tax pre-benefit dollars.

As it stands your average kiwi battler actually spends more tax than he pays. Do you think they deserve that level of benefits?

[yokel]

I am generous with opinions.
I give them away all the time...

Yer because they're cheap and useless ha just like mine.

So what's the point of your life?
I stopped at 3 motorcycles haha

[Brian d marge]

In Epsom?


Remmers maybe?

Some battlers thereabouts...
Poor souls

Those investments looked good at the time
Still they are all gods creatures

[Ocean1]

Wasnt the point

But ideally free or heavily subsidized so that the costs of his education are not bourne by a few but by the larger community
Better for everyone in the long run

We've already done that. We drowned in pointless qualifications that produced nothing tangible.

What we probably should do is identify qualifications that would improve our GDP and subsidise them.

Underwater Basket Weaving History you can pay for yourself.

[Brian d marge]

We've already done that. We drowned in pointless qualifications that produced nothing tangible.

What we probably should do is identify qualifications that would improve our GDP and subsidise them.

Underwater Basket Weaving History you can pay for yourself.
Thats because the funding was cut and bums needed tibe on seats

Lower entry requirements . Shorter courses

Lesbian hip hop studies

Bogan history

Tis the result

[Shaun Harris]

all males have the write to be Lesbians

[mashman]

all males have the write to be Lesbians

As I am a free man, I do not require your permission to be anything that I wish. I was born a lesbian.

[Brian d marge]

In Epsom?


Remmers maybe?

Some battlers thereabouts...

Might I bring it back on topic.

Snip.
The life, the health, the intelligence and the morals of a nation count far more than riches, and I would rather have this country free from want and squalor and unemployed than the home of multi-millionaires.

Now that was someone you would vote for .

Stephen