Key Government out on its own. No one else to blame!

[willytheekid]

.





.

Solid energy is my current service customer (I take care of all of there sites, services, staff IT ICT requests etc etc)

Simple fact is...the MINERS!, who worked that mine for years, have all the experiance and training, ALL say it is possible with minimal risk!, and they are willing to sign any form that states they accept any responcibilty for there own deaths as a result....THEY WANT THERE MATES BACK!!

SO FUCK THE PENCIL PUSHERS!....I trust the guys on the coal face!, THEY are the ones who worked in that mine, THEY are the ones whos mates are Rotting down a god forsaken coal shaft....and THEY are the ones who are willing to take the risk!, and use there years of experiance and knowledge to get there boys back....why stop them? (It may damage there already fucked mine?...or!...those who enter may also PROVE! that the mine was not up to operational safety standards!!...because THATS! THE ISSUE THEY ARE HIDING!...and I can confirm the lack of safety and poor management within SE...and how "snuggly" they are with National presently$$$...nuff said)

...R.I.P boys....at work! and at the bottom of a god forsaken coal mine so poorly run that it caused your deaths! :no:...no fuckin way...bring them home!

[trustme]

I understand your sentiments , I almost agree with you. You say that the miners are prepared to take the risk so let them go in. The big problem is that it is not only them that takes the risk , it is SE & it's directors who are at risk if anything goes wrong, it's a risk they are not prepared to take & I can't blame them. They did not create the mess, they are having to clean up someone else's mess.

There was a fatality in an industry that I work in a few months ago , truth is the guy fucked up & it cost him his life .
The consequence has been paralysis by analysis , everybody is gun shy , no one wants to make a decision. Worksafe wants to nail someone, the multinational owner has sent the management involved a letter telling them to lawyer up they are on their own.

I hate accidents , they are my worst nightmare, we seem to have adopted a policy of ' who can we blame & how hard can we punish them ' rather than what can we learn to prevent it happening again.

[willytheekid]

... it is SE & it's directors who are at risk if anything goes wrong, it's a risk they are not prepared to take & I can't blame them. They did not create the mess, they are having to clean up someone else's mess.
.

They certainly ARE at risk if the truth of the failed management and safety standards in the mine are ever proven!
...there quest for profit through cost cuts and hiring unskilled management with limited or NO experiance in mine safety operations and proceedure DIRECTLY caused this explosion!...there are numerous reports that prove the equipment and processes needed to be upgraded...but SE and its directors REFUSED to address the multiple issues reported from all sectors at the mine....as it would eat into PROFITS!

SE & THE DIRECTORS CAUSED THIS DUE TO POOR MANAGEMENT & GREED!...nothing else!

(I work with these people on a daily basis...If I could share more without breaching EVERY confidentiality contract...I would!, because SE is run by muppets who place profit WELL before the safety of there own staff!)


That mine was dangerous well before the explosion!...read the multiple reports on the failed safety processes, cos they are just the very TIP of the fail iceberg mate.

[trustme]

I must be missing something . I thought at the time of the accident the mine was owned by Pike River, a private company who were no part of SE. Pike River may very well have a case to answer, but if SE were not the owner of the mine at the time of the explosion it can hardly be their fault. Simply because they picked up the ball or copped the hospital pass depending on how you look at it , you can't blame them for the negligence of the previous owner.

[oldrider]

(It may damage there already fucked mine?...or!...those who enter may also PROVE! that the mine was not up to operational safety standards!!...because THATS! THE ISSUE THEY ARE HIDING!...and I can confirm the lack of safety and poor management within SE...and how "snuggly" they are with National presently$$$...nuff said)

really? If it was only a safety issue what was the local company safety officer doing about it ... never ever saw that mentioned!

I think he may have lost one son and the other was one of the survivors so I guess everybody went soft on him!

Does anybody actually know? this has always bugged the hell out of me but never could find anything on it!

[trustme]

I'll read between the lines & surmise a bit. They all knew the mine was dodgy. They all knew the company was under financial pressure, they all knew short cuts were being taken & best practice was not being followed . They all wanted the mine to succeed , all their jobs depended on it . All the experienced miners , safety officer included must have known they ran a risk but figured it was OK.
It wasn't.

[oldrider]

I'll read between the lines & surmise a bit. They all knew the mine was dodgy. They all knew the company was under financial pressure, they all knew short cuts were being taken & best practice was not being followed . They all wanted the mine to succeed , all their jobs depended on it . All the experienced miners , safety officer included must have known they ran a risk but figured it was OK.
It wasn't.

Hmmmm OK. Well I will just keep my thoughts to myself! ... Thankyou.

[Stylo]

Sounds like Key did a good 'damage control' exercise on the Coast today, so much was out of his control, still glad I voted for him.

Imagine Cunliffe in the same position, that would have been funny , we haven't heard from him for a while ..... hmm

[trustme]

It was the perfect storm for any govt. No matter what you do it's wrong, damage limitation comes to mind. Cynical but understandable.
Any govt would do the same.
Does not help the families at all.

[husaberg]

I'll read between the lines & surmise a bit. They all knew the mine was dodgy. They all knew the company was under financial pressure, they all knew short cuts were being taken & best practice was not being followed . They all wanted the mine to succeed , all their jobs depended on it . All the experienced miners , safety officer included must have known they ran a risk but figured it was OK.
It wasn't.

There were f-all experienced miners there ..........

[Ocean1]

Simple fact is...the MINERS!, who worked that mine for years, have all the experiance and training, ALL say it is possible with minimal risk!, and they are willing to sign any form that states they accept any responcibilty for there own deaths as a result

There is no form anyone can sign that absolves a company from responsibility for their employees. Can't legally be done.

The closest you'll ever see is exactly that turning of a blind eye by those employees to safety related issues that threatened their jobs. And even there, legally the company wears all of the blame.

Doesn't have to be the case. You could legislate policy making employees collectively culpable for site safety. But employees are nowhere near as easy to hold accountable in monetary terms when the shit hits the fan.

There's a clue to the inherent idiocy of modern OSH ideology in the insistence that all accidents are preventable, and by extension that perfect safety is economically feasible if only your procedures are detailed enough. If you believe that then you're part of the problem.

[husaberg]

There is no form anyone can sign that absolves a company from responsibility for their employees. Can't legally be done.

The closest you'll ever see is exactly that turning of a blind eye by those employees to safety related issues that threatened their jobs. And even there, legally the company wears all of the blame.

Doesn't have to be the case. You could legislate policy making employees collectively culpable for site safety. But employees are nowhere near as easy to hold accountable in monetary terms when the shit hits the fan.

There's a clue to the inherent idiocy of modern OSH ideology in the insistence that all accidents are preventable, and by extension that perfect safety is economically feasible if only your procedures are detailed enough. If you believe that then you're part of the problem.

There is such a form it is called being a sercured creditor and the major shareholder ...IE NZOAG they called the shots yet oh sorry it was Pike river Coal not us.........

[pete376403]

It was the perfect storm for any govt. No matter what you do it's wrong, damage limitation comes to mind. Cynical but understandable.
Any govt would do the same.
Does not help the families at all.

Maybe he wasn't wearing his prime ministers hat when he said this:

Prime Minister John Key told the Herald: "It's a significant expenditure, but I have always said as Prime Minister that the issue was never one of cost.

"It was a matter of doing everything we practically could to get the bodies of the victims out of the mine."

Seems to have forgotten that pretty quickly.

[Ocean1]

There is such a form it is called being a sercured creditor and the major shareholder ...IE NZOAG they called the shots yet oh sorry it was Pike river Coal not us.........

What calls the shots in the final analyse is the law. There's just one legal entity responsible for health and safety on any work site: the company managing it. There is no legal way to indemnify that company for any failures in protecting anyone on site from reasonably foreseeable risk.

If you have evidence that NZOAG had the slightest influence on health and safety policy on a site managed by a different outfit then I suggest that you call the sheriff, dude, that shit can't help but stick. If you don't then now would likely be an excellent time to consider that making such allegations looks kinda silly. And possibly very expensive.

[husaberg]

What calls the shots in the final analyse is the law. There's just one legal entity responsible for health and safety on any work site: the company managing it. There is no legal way to indemnify that company for any failures in protecting anyone on site from reasonably foreseeable risk.

If you have evidence that NZOAG had the slightest influence on health and safety policy on a site managed by a different outfit then I suggest that you call the sheriff, dude, that shit can't help but stick. If you don't then now would likely be an excellent time to consider that making such allegations looks kinda silly. And possibly very expensive.

It does not stick its pretty simple they were running the place that's who pike answered to......... but they can never be held accountable and they never will........


Under further questions from Mr Cunliffe, Mr English confirmed that fund managers at ACC and the Superannuation Fund were shareholders of New Zealand Oil and Gas, a large shareholder of Pike River Coal, and had voted against paying compensation to the Pike River families.

"That motion, if carried, would have seen New Zealand Oil and Gas, a 29 per cent shareholder in Pike River Coal, pay out on behalf of the other 71 per cent."

An order for $3.41 million in reparation to the victims' families and two survivors was made in July by Judge Jane Farish who convicted Pike River Coal on health and safety charges. The company is now in receivership.

New Zealand Oil and Gas has already paid $25 million since the disaster for salaries, creditors and tunnel recovery. A resolution at its annual meeting in October to pay more was lost.

Hon DAVID PARKER (Deputy Leader—Labour) to the Minister for ACC: How much did ACC invest in Pike River Coal Limited and in New Zealand Oil and Gas Limited over the last eight years, and how much has it made or lost in total on its investment in each company, taking into account share purchases, subscriptions and sales, dividends, and current share prices?

Hon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister for ACC) : I am advised that the shares currently held by ACC in New Zealand Oil and Gas cost $22.4 million and have an unrealised loss of $3.9 million. Over the last 8 years it has made a realised gain, including dividend and trading income, of $8.9 million. The shares currently held by ACC in Pike River Coal Ltd cost $20.5 million and have an unrealised loss of $20.5 million. During the last year it has made a realised loss, including dividend income, of approximately $1 million. In total the net loss of the investment to date has been $16 million.

Hon David Parker: Of ACC’s $2 billion profit on investments last year, how much did ACC pay towards the court-ordered compensation that Pike River Coal, a company that ACC partly owned, has not honoured?

Hon JUDITH COLLINS: Of course, ACC had no obligation or requirement to pay that, and it was not ordered by the court to do so.

Hon David Parker: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was not that; my question was how much has ACC, from its—

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I invite the member to ask that question again.

Hon David Parker: Of ACC’s $2 billion profit on investments last year, how much did ACC pay towards the court-ordered compensation that Pike River Coal, a company that ACC partly owned, has not honoured?

Hon JUDITH COLLINS: Exactly the same amount that the court ordered ACC to pay, which was none.

Hon David Parker: Why did ACC vote against the New Zealand Oil and Gas resolution of shareholders at the company’s recent AGM instead of voting otherwise, or online or via its proxy, to contribute money to Pike River families, which would have assisted in paying the compensation awarded by the courts?

Hon JUDITH COLLINS: I think I should correct the member in relation to the actual motion, which was “That the Company investigates and reports to shareholders on paying the reparation order of $3,410,000 handed down …”. ACC voted against it, I am advised, because it did not believe as a shareholder that it was sufficiently informed on all of the considerations to make a judgment as to what was the right stance for New Zealand Oil and Gas to take on that issue.

Hon David Parker: Why has ACC made no claim against the directors of Pike River Coal Ltd for ACC’s losses following the misleading statements in the Pike River prospectuses, which could have also been used by ACC to pay for compensation?

Hon JUDITH COLLINS: Could you ask the member to repeat his question, please?

Mr SPEAKER: I will certainly ask the member to repeat his question.

Hon David Parker: Why has ACC made no claim against the directors of Pike River Coal Ltd for ACC’s losses, which the Minister said is $20 million, following the clearly misleading statements in the Pike River prospectuses, which, again, could be used by ACC to pay the compensation that the miners’ families have not received?

Hon JUDITH COLLINS: That question is extremely speculative and it would be a matter for the board of ACC, not for the Minister.

Hon David Parker: Does the Minister agree that it is repugnant that ACC has done nothing to enforce its right to hold the errant directors of Pike River Coal to account, has not contributed to the court-awarded compensation, and, as one of the largest shareholders in New Zealand Oil and Gas, it voted to block that company from doing so too?

Hon JUDITH COLLINS: No, I would not call it repugnant; what I would call it is in accordance with the law, and I would also point out to that member that ACC will have, in fact, by the end of next year paid almost $5 million to the families of those who were tragically killed at Pike River. There will be, in fact, around $16 million to $20 million extra paid, and that is in addition to the massive $16 million loss in the investment, which, by the way, was commenced under a Labour Government. Ruth Dyson was the Minister.

[Winston001]

Who cares. This is NZ where you don't bother recovering bodies if there's no economic benefit.

Jim that is just silly.

Any accidental death is tragic and naturally a family will want the body so a burial can take place. Burying (or cremation) is an act of respect for the dead person and at the same time a closure for the family. It confirms the reality of death and allows people to continue on.

Sometimes a burial is not possible. People disappear and are never seen again. Trampers. Hunters. Fishermen. Sailors. That's worse than what the Pike families face: they at least know where their dads and brothers are.

Ships and aeroplanes sink into the seas. The wreckage might be found but impossible to reach. The bodies are left in peace.

It is utterly wrong to expect body rescuers to risk their own lives to enter a deep mine, somehow respectfully gather up 29 bodies, and return each of them to the surface.

After which the same 29 bodies are put back into a hole in the earth.

The boys are buried already. Let them rest.

[bluninja]

Having been brought up in a coal mining area and married into a welsh mining family I can appreciate some of the families feelings (though all my family came out with just blue scars and a wheelchair). However IMHO dead is dead...do they want to get the bones and put them on display in an open coffin before burning them? or burying them in a shallower grave than they are now in? If there was the possibility of life then no expense spared...and let heroes step forward. But to just disinter them from one grave to put them in another is not (to me) worth the risk to life and limb.

To all you conspiracy theorists, it's National that killed them...and I have them as a client so I know everything about mining and safety ...... Fuck you hard sideways for trying to make this party politics. Coal mining (all mining) is a dangerous business, period. Take a look at the loss of life in mining worldwide if you want a reality check.

[Ocean1]

It does not stick its pretty simple they were running the place

They were not running the place, like I said if you have evidence they were directing safety policy on site lets see it. Otherwise....

[willytheekid]

To all you conspiracy theorists, it's National that killed them...and I have them as a client so I know everything about mining and safety ...... Fuck you hard sideways for trying to make this party politics

:crybaby:...so sorry for sharing some FACTS! from the people who actually worked there! (who I talk with daily, and it comes up...cos there still upset and angry)


And now...they have me monitoring ALL emails from ALL there sites due to concern over information leaks after yesterdays announcement...funny that aye!<_<

Tad less attitude tho mate...this is a forum, we talk about shit, to clarify shit...dont like it, sweet as!, no need to threaten & insult people...with rough bum sex!:crazy:...thats just wrong!!:oi-grr: (Unless your Nodrog!...then its normal...ish:eek5:)

ps...you actualy make a very good point regarding the bodies :yes:...but fucking a miners daughter sure as shit doesn't make you an expert either!...were all clutching at straws and seeking the truth behind this sad event.

[husaberg]

They were not running the place, like I said if you have evidence they were directing safety policy on site lets see it. Otherwise....

They were running the place, they were applying the pressure both indirectly and directly by withdraws and offers of bonus's huge levels of pressure were being applied to perform ........
Pressure is applied with words not with emails or is minuted at meetings.......
Do you know anyone who worked there or died there Ocean. I know plenty in both camps.
Knowing stuff and proving stuff in a court of law are very different.

[bluninja]

Tad less attitude tho mate...this is a forum, we talk about shit, to clarify shit...dont like it, sweet as!, no need to threaten & insult people...with rough bum sex!:crazy:...thats just wrong!!:oi-grr: (Unless your Nodrog!...then its normal...ish:eek5:)

ps...you actualy make a very good point regarding the bodies :yes:...but fucking a miners daughter sure as shit doesn't make you an expert either!...were all clutching at straws and seeking the truth behind this sad event.

No threats....the insult was specific to those trying to make this tragedy party politics. As for FACTS.....would it not be your responsibility as a human being to whistle blow on real facts if illegal acts have occurred that lead to this tragedy. After all if you leak to a journo and it's in the public interest then they can publish and protect their source....even if it's Nicky Hager :banana:.

Fucking a miners daughter makes me an expert in one area :cool: as for mining I leave that to my father, father in law, uncles, and school friends that work/ed down the mines as engineers and face workers.

Yup this is a forum....if you don't like my attitude.....I have others :motu:

[willytheekid]

No threats....the insult was specific to those trying to make this tragedy party politics. As for FACTS.....would it not be your responsibility as a human being to whistle blow on real facts if illegal acts have occurred that lead to this tragedy. After all if you leak to a journo and it's in the public interest then they can publish and protect their source....even if it's Nicky Hager :banana:.

Fucking a miners daughter makes me an expert in one area :cool: as for mining I leave that to my father, father in law, uncles, and school friends that work/ed down the mines as engineers and face workers.

Yup this is a forum....if you don't like my attitude.....I have others :motu:

Nothing wrong with your attitude mate...just not into rough bum sex! :oi-grr: (Even if i do ride honda!;))

As I KEEP saying, Im just passing on what the actual workers are all saying, and the companys "worries"...hence nothing for me to "whistle blow", again, just pasing on the "talk" from the mine and the historical evidence all ready available to the public...mine was unsafe, mine exploded, poeple died, sad day for all of NZ.

Will be interesting to see what the coasters do tho...end of the day its really there call if they want to push again...couldn't blame them either way they decide as they have been through enough all ready.

Later fucker :motu: :killingme:innocent:


ps...T.H.C :headbang:(used to run the Crowbar at the Mill ;)...hope the surfs still good round the mount)

[trustme]

Some maybe all adventure tourism operators require clients to sign non liability clauses so why cant SE offer those to people who want to go in?

I'm not a lawyer but I suspect there is quite a difference legally between the employer / employee relationship & that of a tour operator & his client who signs a waiver.

Signing the waiver does not prevent the tour operator being prosecuted if an accident happens. Work Safe will still have a go at the operator. Key recently warned the adventure tourism industry to clean up it's act.
Farmers are liable for anything that happens on their patch. Remember the bee keeper who got killed when the farmers bridge failed. Farmer got nailed.
I suspect SE would still be liable for what ever happened at Pike River, waiver or no waiver.

[oldrider]

Is that the same thing as a KB waiver? :rolleyes:

[Ocean1]

They were running the place, they were applying the pressure both indirectly and directly by withdraws and offers of bonus's huge levels of pressure were being applied to perform ........
Pressure is applied with words not with emails or is minuted at meetings.......
Do you know anyone who worked there or died there Ocean. I know plenty in both camps.
Knowing stuff and proving stuff in a court of law are very different.

Dude, this isn't difficult. Nobody here expects a watertight legal case, just a bit of coherence. "I know NZOAG used their position as shareholders to dictate management of safety issues because......"


Simply repeating "They were running the place" ad nauseum is legally incorrect and boring as fuck.

[husaberg]

Dude, this isn't difficult. Nobody here expects a watertight legal case, just a bit of coherence. "I know NZOAG used their position as shareholders to dictate management of safety issues because......"


Simply repeating "They were running the place" ad nauseum is legally incorrect and boring as fuck.

As soon as I say, what I know to be true as told to me by many people who were there. You will again say prove it. So around in circles we go..........
So who do you think was calling the shots then Ocean... If it was not the owners of pike............

[Ocean1]

As soon as I say, what I know to be true as told to me by many people who were there. You will again say prove it. So around in circles we go..........
So who do you think was calling the shots then Ocean... If it was not the owners of pike............

You haven't said anything specific about what you know to be true whatsoever dude. "They were running the place" doesn't actually mean much, whereas pointing out that Pike River Ltd were the ones legally responsible for safety on that site is a simple statement of fact.

So what have all these people been saying, specifically? I'm quite prepared to believe that investors got all heavy handed on the board, happens in most businesses, it's their money being played with after all. But that doesn't mean they're responsible for any gross neglect of safety issues.

[husaberg]

You haven't said anything specific about what you know to be true whatsoever dude. "They were running the place" doesn't actually mean much, whereas pointing out that Pike River Ltd were the ones legally responsible for safety on that site is a simple statement of fact.

So what have all these people been saying, specifically? I'm quite prepared to believe that investors got all heavy handed on the board, happens in most businesses, it's their money being played with after all. But that doesn't mean they're responsible for any gross neglect of safety issues.
I simple statement of fact is Pike river coal was a company Coontroled by who........again Ocean..... who controlled Pike river coal.. you can shut your eyes and hide behind pike river coal just as the owners have all you like.
Just as you also can argue time and again how it is fair corporate and multinationals in nz pay less tax than the average family does.......because it is legal.
I asked pretty clearly you did you know anyone who worked there or died there...... as you didn't answer and chose to ignore the question I can assume you didn't......... So with the greatest Respect I can muster, shut the fuck up about stuff you know nothing about.
Either or write a letter to the editor in our local paper http://www.greystar.co.nz/contact-us
Please feel free to include your home number and address inviting all the local people here that have lost friends and family to contact you so you can regale them yourself your simple statements of facts......

[Ocean1]

I simple statement of fact is Pike river coal was a company Coontroled by who........again Ocean..... who controlled Pike river coal.. you can shut your eyes and hide behind pike river coal just as the owners have all you like.
Just as you also can argue time and again how it is fair corporate and multinationals in nz pay less tax than the average family does.......because it is legal.
I asked pretty clearly you did you know anyone who worked there or died there...... as you didn't answer and chose to ignore the question I can assume you didn't......... So with the greatest Respect I can muster, shut the fuck up about stuff you know nothing about.
Either or write a letter to the editor in our local paper http://www.greystar.co.nz/contact-us
Please feel free to include your home number and address inviting all the local people here that have lost friends and family to contact you so you can regale them yourself your simple statements of facts......

Fuck all respect there dude. And so far you're correct, I'm completely ignorant about any instance where NZOAG "controlled" the company legally responsible for safety on site. Which is why I asked you to provide one, since that seemed to be the basis on which you seem to blame anyone other than the company responsible.

As a matter of interest who do you think should be responsible for safety in workplaces?

Oh, and whether I know people affected by the tragedy is not relevant and none of your fucking business.

[husaberg]

Fuck all respect there dude. And so far you're correct, I'm completely ignorant about any instance where NZOAG "controlled" the company legally responsible for safety on site. Which is why I asked you to provide one, since that seemed to be the basis on which you seem to blame anyone other than the company responsible.

As a matter of interest who do you think should be responsible for safety in workplaces?

Oh, and whether I know people affected by the tragedy is not relevant and none of your fucking business.

People reasonable for safety start first with the workers move to the company that employs them then to the owners lastly to the government body that's very existence to ensure that financial issues do not override safety measures
At Pike all these failed..........
Pike river no longer exists the police have decided it is to hard to prosecute the people at pike, the charges against them were not pursued for a number of reasons .

If you lived the last four years in a community surround daily by the pain and loss that had occurred as a result of this situation you would be answer the question.......

[Ocean1]

People reasonable for safety start first with the workers move to the company that employs them then to the owners lastly to the government body that's very existence to ensure that financial issues do not override safety measures.

Is this your personal philosophical opinion or is it enshrined in law somewhere?

[husaberg]

As a matter of interest who do you think should be responsible for safety in workplaces?




People reasonable for safety start first with the workers move to the company that employs them then to the owners lastly to the government body that's very existence to ensure that financial issues do not override safety measures
At Pike all these failed..........
..


Is this your personal philosophical opinion or is it enshrined in law somewhere?

Look at the question you asked and decide hint you asked me for my opinion.
We could argue all night long but the outcome will always be the 29 are still dead and it is no one with a great accountant, an acceptable level of deniability and decent lawyers fault at all according to you

[Ocean1]

Look at the question you asked and decide hint you asked me for my opinion.
We could argue all night long but the outcome will always be the 29 are still dead and it is no one with a great accountant, an acceptable level of deniability and decent lawyers fault at all according to you

OK, so it's your personal opinion on who should be responsible. Fine.

I haven't expressed an opinion on who should be responsible, just who legally actually is responsible.

You simply assumed I agree with the legal conventions. I don't.

[husaberg]

OK, so it's your personal opinion on who should be responsible. Fine.

I haven't expressed an opinion on who should be responsible, just who legally actually is responsible.

You simply assumed I agree with the legal conventions. I don't.
Ocean I could post multi quote after multi quote of you expressing so what that is the law on a huge number of different subjects .
like I said earlier write a letter to the local rag expressing your opinion inviting the other families friends and the widows to counter your opinions.

[Ocean1]

Ocean I could post multi quote after multi quote of you expressing so what that is the law on a huge number of different subjects .
like I said earlier write a letter to the local rag expressing your opinion inviting the other families friends and the widows to counter your opinions.

Perhaps that's because a lot of people complain about the perfectly legal actions of others.

If you don't like the rules then change them.

[husaberg]

Perhaps that's because a lot of people complain about the perfectly legal actions of others.

If you don't like the rules then change them.

Yeah that works.......
I may even bring back dead people........
I remember there was a referendum a while back got plenty of support did no good either.
yet were are going to spend how much to change a flag lol

[oldrider]

It helps if we know the difference between when we are being led in the right direction or that we have simply dropped the reins!

Keep an eye on our leader at all times and only approve if you agree with the direction he takes .. the past has proved we have done otherwise! :facepalm:

[pete376403]

It helps if we know the difference between when we are being led in the right direction or that we have simply dropped the reins!

Keep an eye on our leader at all times and only approve if you agree with the direction he takes .. the past has proved we have done otherwise! :facepalm:

Key has an absolute majority - doesn't matter if you approve or not, what the Government want is what they're going to get

[Brian d marge]

Key has an absolute majority - doesn't matter if you approve or not, what the Government want is what they're going to get
Yup thats the long and short of it

Expect all of their wet dreams to be passed into law in the next term

[trustme]

Yup thats the long and short of it

Expect all of their wet dreams to be passed into law in the next term

They may have a majority but Key has already warned against arrogance creeping in. Like him or hate him he is a canny operator & reads the electorate extremely well . If the electorate won't stomach it , he won't go there.

[oldrider]

Key has an absolute majority - doesn't matter if you approve or not, what the Government want is what they're going to get


They may have a majority but Key has already warned against arrogance creeping in. Like him or hate him he is a canny operator & reads the electorate extremely well . If the electorate won't stomach it , he won't go there.

Thats why any effective means must not be squandered ... I notice all the usual deadbeat faces (Minto) being filmed by TV1 of the current TPPA protests.

I'm sure that is done deliberatly to denegrate the authenticy of the protesters in the general publics eye. :shifty:

[Brian d marge]

Thats why any effective means must not be squandered ... I notice all the usual deadbeat faces (Minto) being filmed by TV1 of the current TPPA protests.

I'm sure that is done deliberatly to denegrate the authenticy of the protesters in the general publics eye. :shifty:
Aye theres the rub . . .（some actual hamet for ya)

The media will swing in behind with there brain washing revolving circles . . Film people whom are known to have lower status in the eyes of the great unwashed

And the tppa will sail through unapposed . . .aka scotland

Look how the contempt flowed when caught lyin about the electricity generator opening

Take his photo

Take his childrens photo

Remember

Then lead them to le guillotine when the time comes

Fk em

[blue rider]

its been sometime since I last saw that movie....but it kind of is relevant?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeping_Dogs_(film)

one can watch it here, if so inclined.

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v18706041g8fS9nAj?h1=Sleeping+Dogs+(1977%2C+Roger+ Donaldson)

[Brian d marge]

its been sometime since I last saw that movie....but it kind of is relevant?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeping_Dogs_(film)

one can watch it here, if so inclined.

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v18706041g8fS9nAj?h1=Sleeping+Dogs+(1977%2C+Roger+ Donaldson)

If I was an American , I would be reading ole Max's emails ( Maximilian Robespierre,,,and they would be letters cos uncle max didnt have email in 1790 ....)

Arresting people for feeding the Homeless, or making them work for 6 months for no money , thats going to light a few fuses then.....

we could set up a "public safety committee " and we could have purges .....

I might even take up Knitting ...in front of my new TV

Stephen

[blue rider]

i think dear Leader might look fetching in one of these

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5oJW0Shg9nw/VF-jSgI9WPI/AAAAAAAAVkY/-RvxDTs4iws/s1600/ISIS%2Bhunting%2Bkit.jpg

[mashman]

Eating chocolate (https://nz.finance.yahoo.com/video/isis-chocolate-business-turns-sour-222249027.html)

[Brian d marge]

i think dear Leader might look fetching in one of these

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5oJW0Shg9nw/VF-jSgI9WPI/AAAAAAAAVkY/-RvxDTs4iws/s1600/ISIS%2Bhunting%2Bkit.jpg
Looks like 2nd hand blackwater uniforms

Me . . I went with the green one piece with matching handbag and high heels

[blue rider]

Eating chocolate (https://nz.finance.yahoo.com/video/isis-chocolate-business-turns-sour-222249027.html)

:facepalm:

[oldrider]

Notice that TV news always show the same old pics with any supposedly new news items on ISIS?

Maybe the news reporters and photographers are not going near them any more since the decapitations! :eek:

[Winston001]

Notice that TV news always show the same old pics with any supposedly new news items on ISIS?

Maybe the news reporters and photographers are not going near them any more since the decapitations! :eek:

Cripes John - would you? :D

[Winston001]

If I was an American , I would be reading ole Max's emails ( Maximilian Robespierre,,,and they would be letters cos uncle max didnt have email in 1790 ....)



we could set up a "public safety committee " and we could have purges .....



Are you kidding? Robespierre was the leading thinker of his time who inspired the French Revolution. He was a member of the Committee of Public Safety, opposed the death penalty and slavery, and cherished male emancipation. He was in every way a left-wing liberal who wanted equal rights for the ordinary man.

The lesson from this? He was guillotined by order of his mates on the Committee in 1794.

[Brian d marge]

Now ..we have just heard our glorious leader babbling on about terror and the terrorists and restricting , removing passports

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/10705588/Keys-security-speech-raises-concerns-questions

Sorry its stuff opinion, couldn’t find the actual speech quickly...but ya get the point ,....


AND being that NZ is a founding member of the UN .....

We get this

<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/5LopL3TqCuc" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>


Sooooo

The lyin shylock HAS already signed and agreement , to which we must adhere ..... THEN he informs the country ......

The lyin wankr

Stephen


btw Snip';

“2. Reaffirms that all States shall prevent the movement of terrorists or terrorist groups by effective border controls and controls on issuance of identity papers and travel documents, and through measures for preventing counterfeiting, forgery or fraudulent use of identity papers and travel documents, underscores, in this regard, the importance of addressing, in accordance with their relevant international obligations, the threat posed by foreign terrorist fighters, and encourages Member States to employ evidence-based traveller risk assessment and screening procedures including collection and analysis of travel data, without resorting to profiling based on stereotypes founded on grounds of discrimination prohibited by international law;

NZ statement

VAN BOHEMAN, Secretary for Foreign Affairs of New Zealand, said that while national and regional circumstances varied, no country was immune to the threat posed by foreign terrorist fighters. A small number of New Zealand nationals were known to have travelled to Syria to fight with extremist groups. His country was conscious of the threat that those fighters posed to many of its neighbours in the Asia Pacific. Recognizing the need for a comprehensive approach in tackling that threat, he said that his country’s domestic strategy included efforts to confront the drivers of radicalization and violent extremism by engaging communities to help build their resilience; as well as preventative security and law enforcement measures, such as cancelling passports. New Zealand was also working with its partners in South-East Asia and the Pacific to build their capacity to counter terrorism and violent extremism, and to help them ensure that they became neither a target nor a source of international terrorism.

[Brian d marge]

Meanwhile

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/63080507/Trade-window-closes-mid-2015


The wnkr working wonders


FKKKKKKK <iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/9EH1G4EwljM" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

fk Shylock must be red raw , the rate hes going .....

Obama had said publicly and privately that he believed in the TPP and that it was important for growth and was a "legacy item" for him.
Key said each country had issues to work its way through, and there was a lot of work ahead before the TPP could be signed. It had been in train since he took office in 2008, and he noted other international trade talks, such as the Doha round, had stalled.
Some leaders had a more difficult job selling the free trade deal to their domestic audience than he had because in New Zealand most people accepted the benefits of free trade.
His message to the meeting was there were always people in every country opposed to free trade deals, but it did not matter whether it was a good deal or a bad deal they would still object.
Key said he had not talked to Obama about New Zealand's role in the fight against Islamic State.


Stephen

[blue rider]

ahhh the Meat 'n' Milk Barons of NZ are going to fight back against the ignorance of the public on everthing TPPA. After the TPPA has been signed.
But in the meantime they will raise funds ....and then when everything is said and done, they will educate us. :)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11356317

sovereignity .....who needs it.

[mashman]

ahhh the Meat 'n' Milk Barons of NZ are going to fight back against the ignorance of the public on everthing TPPA. After the TPPA has been signed.
But in the meantime they will raise funds ....and then when everything is said and done, they will educate us. :)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11356317

sovereignity .....who needs it.

Just another dumb scared old white muthafucka.

[Banditbandit]

NZ statement

VAN BOHEMAN, Secretary for Foreign Affairs of New Zealand, said that while national and regional circumstances varied, no country was immune to the threat posed by foreign terrorist fighters.

yeah we noticed .. here are terrorist killers in Iraq ...

[oldrider]

Apparently John Key still will not answer the question of his multinational status! :shutup:

[bogan]

Apparently John Key still will not answer the question of his multinational status! :shutup:

Starting to sound like old trumpy and his barak-o-birth-certificate bullshit there mate. Who gives a shit if he is multinational?

[oldrider]

Starting to sound like old trumpy and his barak-o-birth-certificate bullshit there mate. Who gives a shit if he is multinational?

These people asked the question and he has still not answered them: https://aotearoaawiderperspective.wordpress.com/2014/10/16/is-john-key-an-american-will-you-help-us-find-out/

So in answer to your question ... I guess they do ... and so do I now. :yes: (concidering TPPA and all)

[Ocean1]

These people asked the question and he has still not answered them: https://aotearoaawiderperspective.wordpress.com/2014/10/16/is-john-key-an-american-will-you-help-us-find-out/

So in answer to your question ... I guess they do ... and so do I now. :yes: (concidering TPPA and all)

I think the USA is the only outfit in the world to tax their non-resident citizens on foreign income.

Does he strike you as someone who would want to pay twice as much tax?

[Brian d marge]

These people asked the question and he has still not answered them: https://aotearoaawiderperspective.wordpress.com/2014/10/16/is-john-key-an-american-will-you-help-us-find-out/

So in answer to your question ... I guess they do ... and so do I now. :yes: (concidering TPPA and all)
You wont get an answer until the end of the third term

Funny handshake . . .funny handshake

[Brian d marge]

Starting to sound like old trumpy and his barak-o-birth-certificate bullshit there mate. Who gives a shit if he is multinational?
Im worried his species let alone planet

David cameron as well

Both from the planet arsewipe

[Stylo]

These people asked the question and he has still not answered them: https://aotearoaawiderperspective.wordpress.com/2014/10/16/is-john-key-an-american-will-you-help-us-find-out/

So in answer to your question ... I guess they do ... and so do I now. :yes: (concidering TPPA and all)

More than ever I'm glad I voted for John Key, thanks for helping me confirm that OR.

You're not helping your cause, whatever that is, keep ranting mate and, good luck aye

[Brian d marge]

More than ever I'm glad I voted for John Key, thanks for helping me confirm that OR.

You're not helping your cause, whatever that is, keep ranting mate and, good luck aye
May i ask why?

[oldrider]

More than ever I'm glad I voted for John Key, thanks for helping me confirm that OR.

You're not helping your cause, whatever that is, keep ranting mate and, good luck aye

In case you haven't noticed, the name of this forum is "Rant & rave" I seem to be in the correct place! :yes:

Should be an easy question for JK to answer, I don't have a cause, I would simply like to know the answer or at least why he doesn't answer it.

Labour changed the law to allow Harry Duynhoven to keep his job:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3517021

I wonder what the law is regarding the position of Prime Minister?

I am glad that you are pleased you voted for JK so far so good, does seem very complient to American wishes, some would say too compliant!

If JK has duel NZ/American citizenship which country gets his priority? ... He hasn't answered the question yet! :no:

[Scuba_Steve]

More than ever I'm glad I voted for John Key, thanks for helping me confirm that OR.


Do you get special assistance assistance for being clinically retarded? Actually are you allowed to ride, or are you just here because you like bikes?

If all those "big" words are a bit much for you here's a pic
http://images.motorcycle-usa.com/PhotoGallerys/xlarge/12_Aprilia_RSV4_sbs_3.jpg

[puddytat]

I was told that if you ask an Alien " if it is an Alien" the way to tell if it is an Alien is that it will tell you "No I'm not."
But it will never tell you that "Im not an Alien" see......
It'll say for example something like "No" or "your crazy" or "yes" even...
but never will it say that "I am not an Alien" if it is an Alien, as it is against some universal law or something.:yes:

[mashman]

If JK has duel NZ/American citizenship which country gets his priority? ... He hasn't answered the question yet! :no:

He's a humanitarian. Just like the rest of them.

[oldrider]

The reason that I ask this question is that I read a request for same by persons completely unknown to me and who have never received a reply!

It made me wonder why not? ... what could he possibly have to hide? ... does he even know the question has been asked?

Here is the Link: http://thecontrail.com/forum/topics/is-john-key-an-american-will-you-help-us-find-out?commentId=4744723%3AComment%3A575849

When you consider the TPPA controversy, the ISIS situation and all the other American driven controversies, this refusal is not a good look for John Key!

Very good for his critics though if he is an American and especially if dual citizenship contravenes New Zealand law for Prime Minister and they find out! :o

[bogan]

Im worried his species let alone planet

David cameron as well

Both from the planet arsewipe

The vril, shirley.

[Brian d marge]

He's a humanitarian. Just like the rest of them.
Ill have 2 of whatever u have had

[Brian d marge]

The vril, shirley.
Dont call me shirley :D

[Brian d marge]

It doesnt matter the tards have voted . . Key has a free reign for 3 more years

And he will do what he thinks is in the best interest of nz

Sux to be you . , .

Unless ya do something

[Scuba_Steve]

It doesnt matter the tards have voted . . Key has a free reign for 3 more years

And he will do what he thinks is in the best interest of his investments

Sux to be you . , .

Unless ya do something

fixed that for ya ;)

[mashman]

Ill have 2 of whatever u have had

A Yard of sarcasm for this man, stat.

[oldrider]

Was John Key putting NZ interests before America with FATCA? .... He says NZ had no choice in the matter!

You be the judge:http://www.interest.co.nz/personal-finance/68343/nz-has-no-option-co-operate-controversial-us-fatca-tax-law-pm-john-key-says

[Brian d marge]

fixed that for ya ;)
I followed brave sir robins advice

[oldrider]

John Key says nyet to Putin regarding free trade agreement! ... Was that John Key and New Zealand speaking .. or was it John Key representing America? :scratch:

We know he is a New Zealander .. we don't know if he is an American .. or even a citizen of Israel for that matter! :shit: At moments like this it is surely important to know!

He only needs to confirm it openly and legally to all of New Zealand ... shouldn't be too much trouble for him to do that! :no: Why keep avoiding an answer? :facepalm:

[Key Quote] "New Zealand's approach is that we are standing strong with our partners and until we saw a point at which they saw sanctions being removed and a general change in flavour, New Zealand's position won't change." [Un Quote]

Meanwhile John Key signs a free trade agreement with South Korea: http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/new-zealand-south-korea-sign-free-trade-agreement-key-says-165423

[oldrider]

FTA with Russia: http://mfat.govt.nz/Trade-and-Economic-Relations/2-Trade-Relationships-and-Agreements/Russia-Belarus-Kazakhstan/index.php#Areas ... Worth the short read.

What has the Ukraine Russia dispute got to do with this trade agreement being stopped? (other than John Key to suck up to the USA perhaps)

I have asked the question of the people designated as those delegated to answer enquiries regarding this FTA and am awaiting their reply.

[Berries]

Got a bit of spare time on your hands have you?

[puddytat]

It'll all depend on what hat John has on at the time ...whether its the putting the cat out hat or a Jew hat or his PM hat or talking with my mates hat...

[oldrider]

It'll all depend on what hat John has on at the time ...whether its the putting the cat out hat or a Jew hat or his PM hat or talking with my mates hat...

Looks like the hat act is evolving, his NZ hat is for convenience and entry, his American hat is for show and tell and his Jew hat is for .... ever and ever! :scratch:

The way he behaved at the recent world conferences he is obviously aiming at becoming the fastest hat change in the West ... Bet Putin was impressed! :cool:

First time I have felt uncomfortable with him as our leader, he looked more suited for court jester with one of those silly hats with the bells on! :woohoo:

Hey look Mr Obama did you see the way I told old Putin off ... look at me ... look at me ... kinda competition FFS! :corn:

Although the western media has portrayed Putin as an isolated figure at the summit, he has continued to forge close relations with the Brics countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) a grouping that is becoming increasingly organised at the G20 and, in terms of economic size, more than matches the size of the G7 economies. (And thats mainly the problem the West has with Russia!)

[blue rider]

drill baby drill

http://www.energystream.co.nz/news/2014/nov/6/november-og-wrap


The government’s New Zealand Petroleum & Minerals unit has granted Norway’s TGS-Nopec Geophysical Company an eight-month petroleum prospecting permit (PPP 56377) to conduct at least one seismic survey over 136,512 square kilometres of the massive offshore frontier Reinga Basin, northwest of the North Island.

And Houston-headquartered Schlumberger Seaco is seeking a similar prospecting permit but at the other end of New Zealand. It has applied for PPP 57031 covering 446,129 square kilometres of the Great South Basin.

[Brian d marge]

I now have a whole lotta respect for this guy now . . .
RAW: Putin shakes hands with Aussie motorcycle co…: http://youtu.be/bybisJUJ--8

[blue rider]

lets send troops to Iraq to train troops in Iraq, because the Iraqi troops that were trained by the US Troops over the last 10 years turned out to be unreliable troops that are now the troops of
ISIS.

:)
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11333569
http://www.3news.co nz/politics/sas-in-iraq-unlikely---key-2014101311
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/63257141/Government-could-send-SAS-to-Iraq

[oldrider]

Israel - lets destabilise the Palestinians overrun their country and commit genocide upon their people.

USA - lets destabilise the middle East invade their countries and commit genocide upon their people for Israel.

Israel and USA - lets use our media to tell the rest of the world that they are under threat from ISIS and get them to join in our destabilisation plans.

Israel and USA - lets use our world banking power to destabilise and control world events.

BRICS - lets fuck up the plans of Israel and USA and start our own banking system and give them some competition.

USA and Israel - lets start a war with Russia and show those BRICS bastards and the rest of the world that you can't fuck with us.

Putin - shows Obama what it's like to be a real president and gives him and all the other puppet leaders of the West the fingers and goes home to work for his people!

Ah how refreshing is that! :blip:

[Brian d marge]

Israel - lets destabilise the Palestinians overrun their country and commit genocide upon their people.

USA - lets destabilise the middle East invade their countries and commit genocide upon their people for Israel.

Israel and USA - lets use our media to tell the rest of the world that they are under threat from ISIS and get them to join in our destabilisation plans.

Israel and USA - lets use our world banking power to destabilise and control world events.

BRICS - lets fuck up the plans of Israel and USA and start our own banking system and give them some competition.

USA and Israel - lets start a war with Russia and show those BRICS bastards and the rest of the world that you can't fuck with us.

Putin - shows Obama what it's like to be a real president and gives him and all the other puppet leaders of the West the fingers and goes home to work for his people!

Ah how refreshing is that! :blip:
Hahahah in a nutshell . . .

[blue rider]

we only sign it if it is good for us


trust me, be nice to me and no harm will befall you :)

http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/key-tppa-comes-with-compromises-2014111708

[Brian d marge]

After a week in which he attended the G20 summit and APEC, Mr Key says he's hopeful the TPP deal can be signed by the middle of next year

Isnt this the same words obama used

[oldrider]

After a week in which he attended the G20 summit and APEC, Mr Key says he's hopeful the TPP deal can be signed by the middle of next year

Isnt this the same words obama used

I'm with you Mr president! ... Does John Key practice those words daily in front of the mirror? :scratch:

[mashman]

I'm with you Mr president! ... Does John Key practice those words daily in front of the mirror? :scratch:

If he's practicing he'll have to hold a hellers sausage in his mouth in order to make himself understood whilst gurgling down obummas baby batter.

[buggerit]

After a week in which he attended the G20 summit and APEC, Mr Key says he's hopeful the TPP deal can be signed by the middle of next year

Isnt this the same words obama used
Poor John, all this pressing the flesh must be hell on the haemorroids.:eek5:

[Banditbandit]

I'm with you Mr president! ... Does John Key practice those words daily in front of the mirror? :scratch:

At the same time as he is practicing bending over ... and getting the right tongue action with suction ..

[blue rider]

Dear Leader is a mal baise or something because really. NZ was peacefully settled?
Verily i say, the man has odd ideas about peace and peacefully.

http://www.waateanews.com/Waatea+News.html?story_id=ODM3Nw%3D%3D&v=528

but then he also believes that the economy is a rockstar

http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/63362942/Concern-for-future-as-firms-cut-staff

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/dairy/63329785/dairy-auction-prices-drop-again.html

[blue rider]

the boys are having a funny


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTfSZ0D39AI#t=52

gargantuan amounts of milk :)

[mashman]

Dear Leader is a mal baise or something because really. NZ was peacefully settled?
Verily i say, the man has odd ideas about peace and peacefully.

http://www.waateanews.com/Waatea+News.html?story_id=ODM3Nw%3D%3D&v=528

but then he also believes that the economy is a rockstar

http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/63362942/Concern-for-future-as-firms-cut-staff

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/dairy/63329785/dairy-auction-prices-drop-again.html

They should be thankful that their culture was spared <_<

[mashman]

Looks like he's secured a decent future with his mates: Key chairs International Democratic Union (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/25583840/key-chairs-international-democratic-union/#)

[blue rider]

oh.dear.leader.
my heart is broked

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11363702

[husaberg]

oh.dear.leader.
my heart is broked

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11363702

I think you will find he doesn't recall or was out of the country at the time or both.

[blue rider]

file this under

ooops

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11363728

[Scuba_Steve]

file this under

ooops

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11363728

Wow, I really didn't see that one coming... guess it must not be an election year <_<

[blue rider]

Submission allowed for 1 (ONE!) day only. And that day is today, 27.11.2014.

If you are pro or con the countering terrorist fighters legislation one can send ones submission today.

interested in reading this odious piece of legislation?

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2014/0001/latest/DLM6316017.html?search=ta_bill_C_bc%40bcur_an%40bn %40rn_200_a&p=1

submit your 2 cents here

http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/sc/make-submission/51SCFDT_SCF_00DBHOH_BILL60721_1/countering-terrorist-fighters-legislation-bill?utm_content=buffer17c29&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[angle]

Submission allowed for 1 (ONE!) day only. And that day is today, 27.11.2014.

If you are pro or con the countering terrorist fighters legislation one can send ones submission today.

interested in reading this odious piece of legislation?

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2014/0001/latest/DLM6316017.html?search=ta_bill_C_bc%40bcur_an%40bn %40rn_200_a&p=1

submit your 2 cents here

http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/sc/make-submission/51SCFDT_SCF_00DBHOH_BILL60721_1/countering-terrorist-fighters-legislation-bill?utm_content=buffer17c29&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Are there any organisations that are making a submission? This is quite a serious matter and needs a detailed response with explicit analysis and facts. Something of that depth and breadth will require input from a significant number of people.

P.S. The disregard for the opinion of the general public astounds me!

[Banditbandit]

P.S. The disregard for the opinion of the general public astounds me!


What did you expect from John Key and the Nazional gummerment ???

[oldrider]

Are there any organisations that are making a submission? This is quite a serious matter and needs a detailed response with explicit analysis and facts. Something of that depth and breadth will require input from a significant number of people.

P.S. The disregard for the opinion of the general public astounds me!

Is this John Key speaking/acting for and with New Zealand interest foremost or is it John Key acting on behalf of American/Israeli interests? :confused:

Is there any way for us to know the difference? :shifty:

[blue rider]

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/10624896_858943824156645_5196745814296450032_n.jpg ?oh=fec5ce4f1987ac54d3792d2a9064bcd0&oe=5515BB59

[pete376403]

So, didn't take long for the Key government to slip into full-on arrogance mode, did it?

[mada]

So, didn't take long for the Key government to slip into full-on arrogance mode, did it?

Imagine if they had got all the seats they needed to pass laws without minor parties support. :confused:

Pat on the back to sheeple who voted him back in :facepalm:

[AllanB]

Fuck everyone - Johns the man. :yes:

If you think about it, really think about it - in this shirt arse mixed up world of global recession, war, anal bleaching and one hit wonder no talent singers NATIONAL are a pretty good government.

Better than the friggen alternative - is there a alternative. Wait ..... NO there was not - it was a landslide victory!


PS the writer reserves the right to bitch about the government in future posts if the above mentioned government pisses him off.

[mada]

Fuck everyone - Johns the man. :yes:

If you think about it, really think about it - in this shirt arse mixed up world of global recession, war, anal bleaching and one hit wonder no talent singers NEW ZEALAND is a pretty good place regardless of the Party in Government. Better than the friggen alternative - is there a alternative. Wait ..... NO there was not - it was a landslide victory!

Corrected for you. A Labour victory would have hardly seen the global recession, war, or anal bleaching hitting our shores, just like it didn't in 1999 - 2008.

National has been hugely successful, in PR bullshit spin, which is why the Public Service has actually expanded under their rule despite them saying they'd cut it back - there's been a nice big increase in the number of new Communications and PR consultants they have hired to pump out bullshit. PS. cutbacks to and under-resourcing of "back of office and admin" jobs end up causing shit like the Phillip John Smith release to occur as you can't get frontline staff to deal with these types of issues.

The most classic example of their spin machine in action, the claim that NZ was under threat from the growing presence of gangs and gang members with the Police Minister using inflated numbers of gang associates to justify stupid laws and scare monger the public.

Our economy didders on because of the Christchurch Earthquake but has major holes:

A) too much money being wasted on the domestic housing sector, which needs to be encouraged to go into our productive economy through businesses and private enterprise rather than wanking and banking related to servicing mortgages for Australian owned banks.

B) Diversification of exports: The gamble on hedging most bets for dairying is going to slap us in the face like the Aussies recession which has been caused by a cool down in the Chinese economy and slow down in demand. Already dairy prices are flattening out at the same time the Chinese are investing in our tech to produce and supply themselves. China's boom was not going to continue forever and is not really a partnership, its an economic takeover bid.

C) The "Surplus" was fudged stats. Hope you're happy with high ACC levies remaining on rego's and the increases in fuel tax that are coming, make the most of $1.99 petrol cause it will soon be going up again, regardless of the price per barrel.

But who the fuck cares about that shit right? We got more pressing issues to focus on like spending $30,000,000.00 on two stupid un-needed referendums because the PM thinks we should change our flag.

[Scuba_Steve]

But who the fuck cares about that shit right? We got more pressing issues to focus on like spending $30,000,000.00 on two stupid un-needed referendums because the PM thinks we should change our flag.

But only so you'll stop paying attention to that bloody "unimportant" TPPA document

[mada]

But only so you'll stop paying attention to that bloody "unimportant" TPPA document

From what I've read of TPPA draft it could have some pretty shit outcomes for NZ in terms of our Health System and Law making. But, I'm not so upset that it's done in secret, most trade agreements are - like FTA with China, until they go before Parliament and are ratified.

However, the major point of concern is that this government is smug as fuck and would be quite happy to ratify the TPPA and make it recognised under law through urgency in parliament like that have with many other pieces of contentious laws - meaning the public and everyone has limited submissions, say, or debate over it.

[puddytat]

What did you expect from John Key and the Nazional gummerment ???

Nothing more than their normal lying arrogant zionist/American agenda bullshit......I reckon its next big surprise will be allowing the Yanks to set up a base here for "our " own safety....

I 'spose every day longer in power the closer we get to revolution.:laugh:

[Winston001]

Are there any organisations that are making a submission? This is quite a serious matter and needs a detailed response with explicit analysis...




What did you expect from John Key and the Nazional gummerment ???


So, didn't take long for the Key government to slip into full-on arrogance mode, did it?

Never let the facts get in the way of a blind rant lol.

The legislation has been passed in its first reading by MPs voting 107 Aye - 14 No.

Labour voted for it.

[Winston001]

.

National has been hugely successful, in PR bullshit spin....

The most classic example of their spin machine in action, the claim that NZ was under threat from the growing presence of gangs and gang members with the Police Minister using inflated numbers of gang associates to justify stupid laws and scare monger the public.

Agreed but that is because the Police are absolutely convinced that gangs are a major menace despite research showing gangs struggle to even exist. The politicians get told by the Police so the situation would be the same if Labour or Green were in govt.


.Our economy didders on because of the Christchurch Earthquake but has major holes:

A) too much money being wasted on the domestic housing sector, which needs to be encouraged to go into our productive economy through businesses and private enterprise rather than wanking and banking related to servicing mortgages for Australian owned banks.

Fair comment but let me ask you this - what are the alternative busineses that the average person could put money into? NZ doesn't have a good record of businesses surviving.


.B) Diversification of exports: The gamble on hedging most bets for dairying is going to slap us in the face like the Aussies recession which has been caused by a cool down in the Chinese economy and slow down in demand. Already dairy prices are flattening out at the same time the Chinese are investing in our tech to produce and supply themselves.



Wiser heads than you and I have worried about this problem since the 1973 oil shock. The ethos driving the 1984 Fourth Labour govt (Rogernomics) was diversification of the NZ economy. I was a believer - still am. But 30 years later our economy still relies upon what we do best. Food, timber, fish, and tourism.

If you have suggestions please share cos its got me stumped.

[mada]

Never let the facts get in the way of a blind rant lol.

The legislation has been passed in its first reading by MPs voting 107 Aye - 14 No.

Labour voted for it.

There are parts of the bill that need to be supported - ie suspension of passports if there is proof/evidence someone going overseas to fight. Which appears to be what Labour supports.

Other aspects of it are a joke, like SIS getting 48 hour surveillance powers to spy on anyone without need for warrant. Police are a far more competent organisation when it comes to a proactive terror response and already have sufficient powers to undertake search, surveillance, and detention.

John Key's speech that the govt. has evidence that people are fundraising and recruiting for ISIS makes one question, why the fuck aren't these people behind bars then if there is EVIDENCE as claimed and they pose a risk?? - Such activities are already illegal and the Police have the powers to arrest these people and lock them up with ISIS being on the NZ list of designated terror organisations.

The risk posed to NZ'ers domestically is so low it does not justify expansion of state powers which will most likely be used to spy on hippies protecting snails and dolphins.

[Scuba_Steve]

From what I've read of TPPA draft it could have some pretty shit outcomes for NZ in terms of our Health System and Law making. But, I'm not so upset that it's done in secret, most trade agreements are - like FTA with China, until they go before Parliament and are ratified.

However, the major point of concern is that this government is smug as fuck and would be quite happy to ratify the TPPA and make it recognised under law through urgency in parliament like that have with many other pieces of contentious laws - meaning the public and everyone has limited submissions, say, or debate over it.

Ratification means nothing, before it can even get to that stage it needs to be signed & once it's signed the Govt has to obey regardless of wether it get ratified here, so we're liable under international law regardless of outcome here

[mada]

Agreed but that is because the Police are absolutely convinced that gangs are a major menace despite research showing gangs struggle to even exist. The politicians get told by the Police so the situation would be the same if Labour or Green were in govt.

Fair comment but let me ask you this - what are the alternative busineses that the average person could put money into? NZ doesn't have a good record of businesses surviving.

Wiser heads than you and I have worried about this problem since the 1973 oil shock. The ethos driving the 1984 Fourth Labour govt (Rogernomics) was diversification of the NZ economy. I was a believer - still am. But 30 years later our economy still relies upon what we do best. Food, timber, fish, and tourism.

If you have suggestions please share cos its got me stumped.

I donno about the first part. From my understanding Police both the Organisation and staff through the Police Assoc have been giving the Govt. good word on the threat posed by Organised Crime (eg. increasing Corruption which we are seeing) and National rather than dealing with this through an inquiry or establishing an independent organisation to deal with it would rather keep the perception of "no corruption in NZ". The motorcycle gang shit came out of nowhere so appears more likely timed fear mongering at particular block of voters who like "hard on crime" punishments and are scared of anyone on a motorbike with tattoos.

You're right the business environment is complex, especially as we are such an isolated, but such a small market making it easy for monopolies, easy for importers versus domestic producers, but also difficult for our exporters. We've also become a country of short sighted cheap skates I feel - both business owners, and consumers. I just think that if housing or the demand for jobs in Auckland was rectified and not over inflated then people may be more inclined to pour money into and take the risks required to start and endure through having a business as they have more money (but less future security) to lose. Housing is not the sole area where reform is needed either - areas like tertiary education are biggies, where we are piling hundreds of millions into unnecessary courses just to get low paid jobs. If we are able to keep the costs of basics to a minimal (food, shelter, water) then can use the savings for everything else.

Business wise, I am all for doing what we do good - Dairy, Timber, Fish, Tourism, but we need to protect these industries from overseas take over (particularly from China) in both jobs, investment, and technology. We should be looking at things on a global scale and where we as a small nation can export products to fill upcoming demands - Babyboomer Health Care for example - through pharmaceuticals, robotics, etc. etc. Chinese pollution, imagine how much money we could make from technology and equipment that cleans up rivers, the air, etc.

I know I haven't really presented a solution, but I guess what I would like to see is a more self-sustained NZ with strong regions, rather than two or three areas of intensification, but one that thinks long term smart game, rather than short term quick buck.

[Winston001]

Good posts Mada, bling sent.

[Winston001]

From my understanding of Police both the Organisation and staff through the Police Assoc have been giving the Govt. good word on the threat posed by Organised Crime (eg. increasing Corruption which we are seeing) and National rather than dealing with this through an inquiry or establishing an independent organisation to deal with it would rather keep the perception of "no corruption in NZ".

The motorcycle gang shit came out of nowhere so appears more likely timed fear mongering at particular block of voters who like "hard on crime" punishments and are scared of anyone on a motorbike with tattoos.

The general public don't expect Parliament to set up expensive enquiries just to tell them that crime happens and sometimes the criminals are organised. That would be silly. As for motorcycle gangs, I thought they were insignificant and its Black Power and Asian triads whom the police are worried about.


You're right the business environment is complex, especially as we are such an isolated, but such a small market making it easy for monopolies, easy for importers versus domestic producers, but also difficult for our exporters.

I just think that if housing or the demand for jobs in Auckland was rectified and not over inflated then people may be more inclined to pour money into and take the risks required to start and endure through having a business as they have more money (but less future security) to lose.

...areas like tertiary education are biggies, where we are piling hundreds of millions into unnecessary courses just to get low paid jobs.

I'm involved in tertiary education these days and can tell you that the government has been withdrawing from flower arranging courses in a big way. I sort of agree but man does not live by bread alone. There is a place in education for fine arts, photography, interior design, and drama etc. Sod all jobs but we need imaginitive people.

If you asked the general population I'd guess that courses on economics (they never get it right), political studies, and philosophy would be dumped. And we'd be poorer for it.

As for monopolies NZ is a very small country and for some products it makes no business sense to have lots of competitors. After the 1998 electricity market reforms when the generation, lines, and supply was splintered, exactly how much better off are we as a nation? It was nonsense.

We need one govt owned organisation to generate and deliver power with the freedom for others to experiment if they wish. At the moment Contact spills water and Mighty River(?) burns oil both pushing electrons into the same market. A single operator would hold dam storage across the country and use geothermal in a drought.

Soz - just my hobby horse. :D

[Brian d marge]

on the plus side its good to see people waking up

hopefully not to late and . . something may be done to take back control of the country

as for wellington
ask yourself . . why

why are none of the parties standing up to be counted

removing privatisation
publically opposing the tpp
greens say they are but can you hear their shouts , .no nor can i

so there must be a bigger game afoot . .imf ???

i mean look at the rbnz . . who did they put in charge

the nice mr wheeler . . . . and his boss at the world bank

that lovely mr wolfowitch
and can tell me there is no smoke without fire . . . . tui

the solutions to fix this mess

Ill start

remove gst from fresh fruit and vegetables

state housws pegged at 30% of income

fk them , . wheres me knitting
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/27/819289105cb628451d246582f0447883.jpg


tapped out in phone so cannot eloborate . . .pain in the arse typing on this thing:mad:

[Ocean1]

why are none of the parties standing up to be counted

They all stood up to be counted.

National won. By a veritable shitload.

Which don't mean everyone's happy with all of their work. Just that they're less happy with any of the alternatives. Yours included.

[avgas]

But 30 years later our economy still relies upon what we do best. Food, timber, fish, and tourism.
Come again? Tech is our 3rd biggest industry export.
Things have changed since 1984. Rakon, Xero, F&P Healthcare just to name 3. But there are 1000's more like em.
http://www.nztech.org.nz/Category?Action=View&Category_id=40

[Banditbandit]

From what I've read of TPPA draft it could have some pretty shit outcomes for NZ in terms of our Health System and Law making. But, I'm not so upset that it's done in secret, most trade agreements are - like FTA with China, until they go before Parliament and are ratified.

However, the major point of concern is that this government is smug as fuck and would be quite happy to ratify the TPPA and make it recognised under law through urgency in parliament like that have with many other pieces of contentious laws - meaning the public and everyone has limited submissions, say, or debate over it.

That prick DonKey is selling our sovereignty in exchange for MONEY !!!! (Trade deal to make more money) Once it's agree his shit government will ram it through and then we are fucked - we will be part of the 'Merikan economic domination and will have permenantly lost control of our own country. Maybe then people wil wake up - but it will be too late ..




Labour voted for it.

I didn't vote for those stupid fuckers either ..


Ratification means nothing, before it can even get to that stage it needs to be signed & once it's signed the Govt has to obey regardless of whether it get ratified here, so we're liable under international law regardless of outcome here

Yeah - we're fucked .. lost our sovereignty ...

[mashman]

Yeah - we're fucked .. lost our sovereignty ...

Resigned to defeat already eh :shifty: It's nothing that can't be taken back mind.

[Ocean1]

Come again? Tech is our 3rd biggest industry export.
Things have changed since 1984. Rakon, Xero, F&P Healthcare just to name 3. But there are 1000's more like em.
http://www.nztech.org.nz/Category?Action=View&Category_id=40

And that's just the ones identified as having hijacked the words "Information" and "Technology".

There's a metric shitload of innovative technology companies doing very well in spite of missing out on most of the "IT" funding bandwagon.

[Banditbandit]

Resigned to defeat already eh :shifty:

No -


It's nothing that can't be taken back mind.

Sovereignty is usually taken at the point of a gun ... always a possiblity

[Brian d marge]

They all stood up to be counted.

National won. By a veritable shitload.

Which don't mean everyone's happy with all of their work. Just that they're less happy with any of the alternatives. Yours included.
scotland

the case for the defense rests


stephen

[mashman]

No -

Sovereignty is usually taken at the point of a gun ... always a possiblity

For a moment there you sounded like a whipped white muthafucka ;)

Aye... can't get yer own way, make someone your enemy and bring out the guns. How very forward thinking lol.

[Banditbandit]

Aye... can't get yer own way, make someone your enemy and bring out the guns. How very forward thinking lol.

So you'd just sit back and take it if DonKey sells our sovereignty?

Violence is not always the answer - but sometimes it's the best answer.

[avgas]

And that's just the ones identified as having hijacked the words "Information" and "Technology".

There's a metric shitload of innovative technology companies doing very well in spite of missing out on most of the "IT" funding bandwagon.
Yep. People fail to understand that NZ is on the forefront of a few pretty cool tech stuff. Mind due they did the same with Canada/Russia. People fail to recognize that Canada and Russia are the biggest domestic plane makers outside of Boeing and Airbus.

I've sat in a NZ made submarine. I've seen a NZ radio telescope. Both of those things didn't exist in NZ 10 years ago.
Never mind Yachts, Planes, Bikes, Super Yachts, Rockets, Cars, Engines.....all of which are being made in NZ right now.
And that's just the physical things. If you think about software being Pandora's box.......

[avgas]

scotland

the case for the defense rests


stephen
The banking state or the country?

[oldrider]

So you'd just sit back and take it if DonKey sells our sovereignty?

Violence is not always the answer - but sometimes it's the best answer.

Edit: but sometimes it's the "only" answer. :mellow:

Can we afford to have America as our friend? ... Recent history shows it never seems to end well for anyone other than certain sectors of America! :shifty:

[Banditbandit]

Edit: but sometimes it's the "only" answer. :mellow:

Can we afford to have America as our friend? ... Recent history shows it never seems to end well for anyone other than certain sectors of America! :shifty:

Recent history also shows that 'Merika's enemies do extremely well - Germany, Japan ... China ...

[Winston001]

Come again? Tech is our 3rd biggest industry export.
Things have changed since 1984. Rakon, Xero, F&P Healthcare just to name 3. But there are 1000's more like em.
http://www.nztech.org.nz/Category?Action=View&Category_id=40

That's interesting and good to know. Tech is the way to go but every other nation is trying to do the same so it's not easy.

Here is a diagram I came across but tech and tourism are in addition to these figures. Still, US$38 billion bears out my point that as a nation we are still primary producers and its hard to see a way out of that.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/New_Zealand_Export_Treemap_(2011).png

[Brian d marge]

The banking state or the country?
its recent bid for independence . . .possibly the banking state and its subdefuge

[mashman]

So you'd just sit back and take it if DonKey sells our sovereignty?

Violence is not always the answer - but sometimes it's the best answer.

That depends. If we're talking peaceful coup (i.e. to implement something other than a financial system... anything else is just a personnel swap as the system still remains and is the problem), then no, I'll be up front, pitch fork in one hand, and you in the other :love:. If we're talking voting for a personnel change only, then yes, I will sit and take it and will fight back in my own way by keeping my own sovereignty as intact as possible.

It certainly shows intent of purpose :laugh: and whilst I'm not averse to resorting to violence, it'd kinda defeat the purpose imho.

[Banditbandit]

We are talking all forms of violence to change the system ...

Political assassination (I wonder how long before the GCSB or the SIS come along again .. speaking of which that shithead hasn't been here for a while)

General uprising ... armed of course - Godzone has oen of the heaviest armed civilian population in the world,

BUT the use of violence can only be used at the intersection of theory and practice - praxis - and with a full understanding of the historic moment and the consequences.

In Godzone at this moment, there is nothing to suggest that the use of violence would achieve the desired end ... see the Baader-Meinhoff and their failed attempts - it was the wrong historic moment in German for violence of that kind.

However, if the TPPA is signed off, a couple of years down the track and Godzone has demonstrably lost its sovereignty and the historic moment where violence would achieve the desired end might be closer than people think.

[Brian d marge]

hey i have a samik sage just need to increase the ammo side

take photos of the fkrs then make their live a living hell
and their families as well

all actions have consequenses as do mine

next time plod takes cash for the donut fund . . .take a selfie with offender

his time will come

wheres me knitting

[oldrider]

Recent history also shows that 'Merika's enemies do extremely well - Germany, Japan ... China ...

Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Iran, Russia and the beat goes on ... should we be next then? :eek: Their only symbiotic friend is Israel! :rolleyes:

[mashman]

We are talking all forms of violence to change the system ...

Political assassination (I wonder how long before the GCSB or the SIS come along again .. speaking of which that shithead hasn't been here for a while)

General uprising ... armed of course - Godzone has oen of the heaviest armed civilian population in the world,

BUT the use of violence can only be used at the intersection of theory and practice - praxis - and with a full understanding of the historic moment and the consequences.

In Godzone at this moment, there is nothing to suggest that the use of violence would achieve the desired end ... see the Baader-Meinhoff and their failed attempts - it was the wrong historic moment in German for violence of that kind.

However, if the TPPA is signed off, a couple of years down the track and Godzone has demonstrably lost its sovereignty and the historic moment where violence would achieve the desired end might be closer than people think.

Don't forget the legislated violence that is pushed against the people of a country by their govts for crimes that simply aren't.

General Uprising = NZ Civil War?

Timing is everything I guess.

What about a peaceful coup using the democratic system and a carrot?

:killingme... aye, there'll be an uprising of people that will vote labour or green etc... I see no other outcome. IF it did happen as you suggest, it'd be like many other uprising... people congregating into spaces demanding change, left to stew for a while, intimidated by the cops a bit, then dispersed under threat of violence via loss of liberty, before fizzling back into arse rheem central. I say this citing everything from the Arab Spring to any events that are ongoing in the world today as evidence me lud. The TPPA is a single issue, and a single issue will only ever be protested.

[Brian d marge]

nearest nz got to civil up rising was the waterfront and or the springbox


ho hum

knit one pearl 2
Motorhead-Eat the Rich: http://youtu.be/h45WnW0ASFY

The Exploited-Chaos is my Life: http://youtu.be/hzIFIfibsC0

aged . . .#hearingaidsoff

[Ocean1]

its recent bid for independence . . .possibly the banking state and its subdefuge

Voted out. Just like socialism in NZ.

What's your point?

[Brian d marge]

Voted out. Just like socialism in NZ.

What's your point?
the one u missed

and the one many understand

[pete376403]

Remember this?

[mada]

Remember this?

Haha yeah, they need to do a remake with Key as Volkner.

[avgas]

That's interesting and good to know. Tech is the way to go but every other nation is trying to do the same so it's not easy.

Here is a diagram I came across but tech and tourism are in addition to these figures. Still, US$38 billion bears out my point that as a nation we are still primary producers and its hard to see a way out of that.
MFAT and NZTE have no idea how the NZ economy works. Most ministers in this got a degree in economics many moons ago and seem to think that the world still turns to a 1950's beat.

Imagine America without Silicon Valley? NZ has the similar problem with perception.....and Graeme Hart is laughing all the way to his next super yacht with this foolishness. A quick look at the NZX50 and you soon realize that the idea of the land making the living in NZ is vastly changing.
Also the figures are a little out - Fonterra (lets admit they are the biggest player in this game) make a significant proportion of there money (I've heard as high as 70%) by stuff that has never touched NZ soil.

[husaberg]

MFAT and NZTE have no idea how the NZ economy works. Most ministers in this got a degree in economics many moons ago and seem to think that the world still turns to a 1950's beat.

Imagine America without Silicon Valley? NZ has the similar problem with perception.....and Graeme Hart is laughing all the way to his next super yacht with this foolishness. A quick look at the NZX50 and you soon realize that the idea of the land making the living in NZ is vastly changing.
Also the figures are a little out - Fonterra (lets admit they are the biggest player in this game) make a significant proportion of there money (I've heard as high as 70%) by stuff that has never touched NZ soil.

Un fortunately Fontera is going down the path of outside investers and will son no longer be a co-op, The spiel is the farmers will all son become rich from dividends but this will come from their payout....... LOL

[Brian d marge]

shonkey playing ice hockey

not

Putin on ice: President plays hockey with former …: http://youtu.be/rEwzaozwfDI

[oldrider]

shonkey playing ice hockey Putin on ice: President plays hockey with former …:

Vlad always looks different to the man the Western media news prints up of him!

I wonder how they would react to BRICSANZ banking ... if the ANZACS signed up with BRICS bank instead of fighting their stupid self made ISIS war? :rolleyes:

[blue rider]

rock star economy

http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/industry_sectors/imports_and_exports/OverseasMerchandiseTrade_HOTPOct14.aspx

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11367194

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/economy/news/article.cfm?c_id=34&objectid=11367204


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvbSXVc451Q

[blue rider]

math, they have done some

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11173948

[buggerit]

math, they have done some

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11173948

Fuckwits, the ANZACS must be rolling in their graves wondering why the fuck they bothered.

[Scuba_Steve]

"He said the Government was happy to have reduced its exposure to risky commercial assets like the companies in the asset sales programme."

what like power companies that pretty much everyone relies on & don't seem to be going away anytime soon... sounds risky to me; guess now tho they can invest in "safe" things like property development and stock market :rolleyes:

[Brian d marge]

math, they have done some

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11173948
``anyone can own these assets" but a more important role for the Crown was to use its balance sheet to manage the risks of natural disasters, social failure and long term welfare dependency


soooo it was the bastid unemployed that fked up the asset sales

damn those unemployed people lazin around fixin to ruin the country

how can one set an example to america .when these . . . . people undermine ones efforts

stephen

[mada]

In 2017 people will probably be saying "National had 9 long years to......." just like "Labour had nine long years to......"

[mashman]

In 2017 people will probably be saying "National had 9 long years to......." just like "Labour had nine long years to......"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOaxEa5ONJw

[mada]

That cockstar economy....

Merry Xmas Nelson:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/63748436/Sealord-job-losses-a-blow-to-Nelson

"Sealord today confirmed it will cut 70 factory jobs, 11 office-based jobs and another 30 contract workers will no longer be needed at its Nelson wetfish factory."

[mashman]

That cockstar economy....

Merry Xmas Nelson:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/63748436/Sealord-job-losses-a-blow-to-Nelson

"Sealord today confirmed it will cut 70 factory jobs, 11 office-based jobs and another 30 contract workers will no longer be needed at its Nelson wetfish factory."

Someone must have gotten the better of smiffy.

The Money Free Party are based in Nelson :cool:

[oldrider]

In 2017 people will probably be saying "National had 9 long years to......." just like "Labour had nine long years to......"

See Saw Margery Daw, Jenny shall have a new master .... or is it the same old one every time? :eek: ... surprise! :weird:

[MisterD]

In 2017 people will probably be saying "National had 9 long years to......." just like "Labour had nine long years to......"

The thing that should concern them is that in 2014 I'm already hearing National type voters saying "Key's had 6 years to undo some of the shit that Clark forced through and done f-all..."

[blue rider]

is the children learning?

well, according to this not.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11367793


A flagship charter school has lost nearly a quarter of its students and is still battling problems as it nears the end of its first year.

Problems at Te Kura Hourua ki Whangaruru come as new charter or "partnership" schools prepare to open.

The Ministry of Education has extended a review of the Northland school and put it on notice, saying it expects issues to be resolved "in a very timely manner".

Education Minister Hekia Parata has said the school "needs to do better".

The school, on a farm 65km northwest of Whangarei, was one of five chosen after a lengthy selection process to prove privately-run, publicly-funded schools can work in New Zr
aland.



Reports on all charter schools were recently published - except for the "readiness review" of Whangaruru.

The ministry's head of sector enablement and support, Katrina Casey, said the school's report was received from the Education Review Office near the end of September.

It found issues with the quality of teaching, learning, management, leadership and student engagement.



also they cost a lot more than standard public schools....but then the National Party has no issues handing public funds to private entities....after all business need to make a profit, while public schools are being no goods, those liberal feminist teachers are too expensive and anything run by the government is socialist communist crap.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/9709414/Labour-slams-charter-school-funding

[Akzle]

is the children learning?

well, according to this not.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11367793


that's pretty gay.
of course, the jew white yardstick they use to measure such things is also pretty gay.

I cannot speak for that school, but a lot of non-white-jew people learn better in non white-jew schooling.
and while there is SOME merit in reading riting and rithmathstics, the emphasis would be better put on communication, than spelling ie. (also, teach your children maths before they get to school, it fucks the teachers off)

infact, having seen several incredibly intelligent children through jew white schooling, i'm firmly of the belief that it makes people stupider. (not to mention indoctrinates you for cracker society)

(me: well, how are you going to find out?
daughter: we could go on google
me: there's no fucking power here, let alone computer or internet, and there's no fucking google on my computer ANYWAY
daughter: huh, well, that's what they teacher tells us to do
me: fuck your teacher...that's just stupid

me: see that wall full of books over there... the answers are in at least one of them.
daughter: which one?
me: how are you going to find out?
:facepalm: )
(i had to teach a 7 year old what a fucking dictionary is for fucks sake)

i'd be willing to bet those kids could ride horses, motorbikes, tractors, round up stock and catch/kill and prepare food better than any in fucking auckland, at any rate!

[awa355]

Coming to a city near you :drool::drool:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11368612

All in the name of efficiency.

[buggerit]

Coming to a city near you :drool::drool:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11368612

All in the name of efficiency.

If it works like Auckland, you get the rates from the rural areas to spend in the city as long as you maintain a couple
of the holiday highway through roads, because hey, the majority of voters live in the city proper and the rural folk
are spread to thinly over a large area to pose much of a problem.cunts:ar15:

[Swoop]

In 2017 people will probably be saying "National had 9 long years to......." just like "Labour had nine long years to......"
Labour didn't have to rebuild Chch or deal with the "GFC" however.

[Akzle]

Labour didn't have to rebuild Chch or deal with the "GFC" however.

and national didnt manage either of those, either.

[blue rider]

and national didnt manage either of those, either.

must spread some butter around before I can give some to you.

lol


What peeps seem to forget in their hate of Helen Clark the wicked witch of the west is that she came on the heels of Jenny Shipley.

Do National voter remember dear Dame Jenny Shipley? Now if she was just a good one, whey did she get dumped to make way for the Witch?

I would like to know that, cause someone must have voted for the Witch, and I guess not all of them where labour voters.

[oldrider]

must spread some butter around before I can give some to you.

lol


What peeps seem to forget in their hate of Helen Clark the wicked witch of the west is that she came on the heels of Jenny Shipley.

Do National voter remember dear Dame Jenny Shipley? Now if she was just a good one, whey did she get dumped to make way for the Witch?

I would like to know that, cause someone must have voted for the Witch, and I guess not all of them where labour voters.

Shipley was NZ's first female prime minister and she was just as elected as Helen Clark ... the party not the electorate votes the leader in and the leader becomes PM.

All that bullshit about Helen Clark being our first "elected" PM is just that ... Bullshit! :yes:

[buggerit]

Shipley was NZ's first female prime minister and she was just as elected as Helen Clark ... the party not the electorate votes the leader in and the leader becomes PM.

All that bullshit about Helen Clark being our first "elected" PM is just that ... Bullshit! :yes:

Helen was the first to win an election, the poeple of NZ knowingly voted in a party with her as leader, not foisted on the
population by 40 or so mp,s, big difference

[blue rider]

Shipley was NZ's first female prime minister and she was just as elected as Helen Clark ... the party not the electorate votes the leader in and the leader becomes PM.

All that bullshit about Helen Clark being our first "elected" PM is just that ... Bullshit! :yes:

you missed my point.

my point was that before Helen Clark there was Jenny Shipley. And yes all national Party Leaders are established by the Party, however some People have voted for either a. National or b. Labour and the corresponding head of the party gets to play Dear Leader.

Now again, was Jenny Shipley so bad that Helen Clark was the only option, or was Helen Clark just a different Vagina that Kiwis got to vote for cause there was a lack of penises?

Everyone likes to whinge about Helen Clark the wicked witch, how come that no one ever mentiones Jenny Shipley who was Dear Leader before Helen Clark became Dear Leader.

Essentially why does National whinge so much?

[blue rider]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8A507TzusA

I know I know its all humbug and debatable sicience if there is any science involved at all....and hey there used to be dinosours and jesus had a pet T-rex.


http://www.actionstation.org.nz/climate

[Ocean1]

Everyone likes to whinge about Helen Clark the wicked witch, how come that no one ever mentiones Jenny Shipley who was Dear Leader before Helen Clark became Dear Leader.

Essentially why does National whinge so much?

'Cause, essentially, Clarke was responsible for spending her way out of the highest income years NZ had seen for decades.

And left nothing but a bad taste.


So, your typical socialist.

[Brian d marge]

im begining to think that when policies are rammed through and not changed or reversed by the next grubbyment . . . the policy was on an agenda

for example asset sales , not working out to well
. . but not one grubby has said we will take back those assets

dont go down the kiwi rail route . . . dont go there girlfriend . ,

[blue rider]

'Cause, essentially, Clarke was responsible for spending her way out of the highest income years NZ had seen for decades.

And left nothing but a bad taste.


So, your typical socialist.


and why did Jenny Shipley not get voted back in or any other National MP? Care to give me an answer to that?

I came to the country when she was PM, but left a few month later to work for Nike in Holland, and when I came back t'was Helen.

And I am sorry mate, if you consider Helen Clark a socialist, i must assume that you have never met one.

But hey....she must be NZ Socialist, cause clearly she gave to the poor, and kept NZ out of the War, and enticed Hollywood to come and do a few movies...and the likes. And yes, the debt, the huge huge debt. I know.

Lucky for you you got to vote for National the last three times, cause they only give to themselves, are going to send NZ to a lost war, took rights away from workers for the film industry and, cut off all the poor buggers for being lazy fucks - even the old, infirm and to young to work - I know priorities. And how is that surplus coming along, that National was going to produce? Oh...yeah, dropping milk prices, dropping NZ dollar, high unemployment - but hey 0 hour work contracts......You must have a permanent National Woody. :)

[mada]

im begining to think that when policies are rammed through and not changed or reversed by the next grubbyment . . . the policy was on an agenda

for example asset sales , not working out to well
. . but not one grubby has said we will take back those assets

dont go down the kiwi rail route . . . dont go there girlfriend . ,

There's no money to buy them back is mainly the reason why. We'd be having to pay anywhere from double to triple what we sold them for to get them back, given their share price increase, loss of profits, and the free fucking shares Bill and John gave away.

In regards to the earlier comment about reversing Helen Clarkes stuff, I'm sure the extreme right would like to see reversal of interest Free Student Loans, WFF, etc, but I'm not quite sure they would like to see the poverty, crime, and riots that would accompany it - which is why John Key hasn't reversed them, despite being against the policies - and don't kid yourself that he does it for votes, because the bulk of Nats votes comes from the Baby Boomer block who just want their handout pensions. WFF is essentially a subsidy for NZ employers, because the wages in this country are to low, then again its now employers fault that house prices inflated soo much that wages didn't keep up - that's the fault of the bright fuckers who made reforms in the 90s which made property investment worthwhile.

[mada]

Labour didn't have to rebuild Chch or deal with the "GFC" however.

Chch hasn't actually been a cause of much government debt, as most of the money came out of insurance. CHCH rebuild is arguably the main reason why our GDP is remaining positive, without it growth in our economy would be tiny - so you can hardly use it as an excuse for the billions and billions borrowed.

The funny thing about GFC is that it was caused by policies that National are proponents of - less regulation around finance, property investment etc. etc. Arguably if Labour had been more "socialist" and regulated these sectors tighter in NZ, our blows from the GFC would have been smaller.

All of the problems that caused the GFC haven't been rectified either, instead the banks globally were bailed out and in NZ the practice of inflated property investments continues.

If anything the real GFC has yet to occur, and will come when China's economy blows over

[husaberg]

'Cause, essentially, Clarke was responsible for spending her way out of the highest income years NZ had seen for decades.

And left nothing but a bad taste.
So, your typical socialist.

Helen and the labour party were at the time vilified by Don Brash bill English and the national party for not cutting tax's.
they ran budget surplus's on the most part.
National the whole time they have been in government have borrowed and borrowed more and more money they have sold off assets.
Only a few in NZ re currently doing any good, slash that. A few are making out like bandits............

[mada]

'Cause, essentially, Clarke was responsible for spending her way out of the highest income years NZ had seen for decades.

And left nothing but a bad taste.


So, your typical socialist.

Clarke did nothing to reign in the inflated property market, they did nothing to discourage poor investment into property and came up with poor guarantees for finance companies and banks which encouraged them to undertake even greater risks.

They also secured NZ an FTA with China removing tarrifs off many imports, and making it easier for exports to China, before any other Western country.

Hardly the hall marks of a socialist government.

[oldrider]

Helen was the first to win an election, the poeple of NZ knowingly voted in a party with her as leader, not foisted on the
population by 40 or so mp,s, big difference

Get a grip the unions just voted in the Labour party leader and if they get appointed next time he will be prime minister!

Fuck all of the electorate will vote for him as Prime Minister!

At the end of an MMP election all we do is give them permission to select a government from among themselves ... it's a lucky dip!

Helen Clark was never voted in or elected as Prime Minister by the electorate! :oi-grr:

[Ocean1]

and why did Jenny Shipley not get voted back in or any other National MP? Care to give me an answer to that?

I came to the country when she was PM, but left a few month later to work for Nike in Holland, and when I came back t'was Helen.

And I am sorry mate, if you consider Helen Clark a socialist, i must assume that you have never met one.

But hey....she must be NZ Socialist, cause clearly she gave to the poor, and kept NZ out of the War, and enticed Hollywood to come and do a few movies...and the likes. And yes, the debt, the huge huge debt. I know.

Lucky for you you got to vote for National the last three times, cause they only give to themselves, are going to send NZ to a lost war, took rights away from workers for the film industry and, cut off all the poor buggers for being lazy fucks - even the old, infirm and to young to work - I know priorities. And how is that surplus coming along, that National was going to produce? Oh...yeah, dropping milk prices, dropping NZ dollar, high unemployment - but hey 0 hour work contracts......You must have a permanent National Woody. :)

Listen love, it's this simple: governments don't produce surpluses, industry does. And the more you can do to encourage them the more tax they'll pay.

So any socialist leaning govt, (red flavoured union based or blue flavoured) hyper-focused on where they want to spend money and completely oblivious as to where it comes from is always going to create nothing but poverty all round in the long run.

Want a better standard of living for everyone, including your "poor"? Then get the fuck out of the way and let your industrial democracy do it's job.

All clear?

[Brian d marge]

Clarke did nothing to reign in the inflated property market, they did nothing to discourage poor investment into property and came up with poor guarantees for finance companies and banks which encouraged them to undertake even greater risks.

They also secured NZ an FTA with China removing tarrifs off many imports, and making it easier for exports to China, before any other Western country.

Hardly the hall marks of a socialist government.

Which has me wondering that they were " encouraged" to do so by an outside entity .....

I mean , RBNZ , sticks in wheeler whose boss was wolfowitz , the world bank war mongering arsehole

lotta smoke coming from that there fire ........

Stephen

[Ocean1]

Clarke did nothing to reign in the inflated property market, they did nothing to discourage poor investment into property and came up with poor guarantees for finance companies and banks which encouraged them to undertake even greater risks.

They also secured NZ an FTA with China removing tarrifs off many imports, and making it easier for exports to China, before any other Western country.

Hardly the hall marks of a socialist government.

Perhaps she wasn't quite as pathetic as to pretend that govt has any remit, mechanism or reason to mess with the housing market. As for finance companies? What makes you think it's any of govt's or your business to dictate what other people do with their money?

She was as far left as it's possible to get in a democracy and survive an election.

[Ocean1]

Helen and the labour party were at the time vilified by Don Brash bill English and the national party for not cutting tax's.
they ran budget surplus's on the most part.
National the whole time they have been in government have borrowed and borrowed more and more money they have sold off assets.
Only a few in NZ re currently doing any good, slash that. A few are making out like bandits............

Now show us the revenue from which those govts produced those returns.

Labour blew fucking huge surpluses for years, and when they finally got arseholed National inherited the bad times.

They could have borrowed less, I think they should have. But they tread a fine line between stimulating the economy and committing future taxpayers to loan repayments. Are you qualified to comment on the costs./benefits of any particular point on that continuum? And could you bear the whining from the "oh noes, austerity measures" crowd if they'd borrowed less?

Some may be, again there's a balance to be attempted there, between off shore investment and tax liability. I'd like some changes, there.

[blue rider]

Rejoice humble peeps of NZ, Dear Leader has found something else to sell

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10836045

[mada]

Perhaps she wasn't quite as pathetic as to pretend that govt has any remit, mechanism or reason to mess with the housing market. As for finance companies? What makes you think it's any of govt's or your business to dictate what other people do with their money?

She was as far left as it's possible to get in a democracy and survive an election.

Your response is very simple.

Why does government have a reason to mess with housing? Because we pay billions in accommodation supplements/income related rents every year which gives a subsidy to those who invest in properties. Let alone, the billions wasted through investment and debt that could be put into productive industry.

As for finance, I don't give a toss who invests what and where, you seem to miss the point that I made in which we the TAXPAYER were made to GUARANTEE them and paid out billions for that.

Your last comment if fucking funny to, the implications of it being that John Key is as far RIGHT as its possible to get in a democracy and survive an election, and by yours and others right wing words he's not even that right wing. :killingme:killingme

:brick::brick::brick::brick:

[blue rider]

Now show us the revenue from which those govts produced those returns.

Labour blew fucking huge surpluses for years, and when they finally got arseholed National inherited the bad times.

They could have borrowed less, I think they should have. But they tread a fine line between stimulating the economy and committing future taxpayers to loan repayments. Are you qualified to comment on the costs./benefits of any particular point on that continuum? And could you bear the whining from the "oh noes, austerity measures" crowd if they'd borrowed less?

Some may be, again there's a balance to be attempted there, between off shore investment and tax liability. I'd like some changes, there.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0610/S00174.htm

and because I don't think that you ever click on a link i will post the article in Full. I will also highlight the name of the person from National that is pissed that Helen Clark and the Government has gauged the NZ Puplic by not cutting tax.


John Key MP
National Party Finance Spokesman

11 October 2006

Huge surplus shows Labour has gouged taxpayers

The greedy Labour-led Government should apologise for gouging New Zealand taxpayers following the announcement of an enormous $11.5 billion surplus, says National Party Finance spokesman John Key.

"New Zealand is now running the second biggest surplus in the developed world. Only Norway runs a bigger surplus.

"This huge surplus shows that every man, woman and child has been overtaxed to the tune of $2,875 each.

"The surplus also confirms yet again that a programme of tax cuts are affordable. National has consistently argued for a programme of measured and affordable tax cuts. Our view hasn't changed.

"The figure also makes a mockery of Michael Cullen's hysterical, scaremongering claims leading up to the election. In fact, today's announcement shows that Dr Cullen grossly misled the public during the election campaign.

"Who are the public going to believe at the next election - a Labour Government which has run nine years of huge surpluses and which miraculously finds an appetite for tax cuts just before an election, or an incoming National Government that's committed to ongoing tax reductions to improve our competitiveness?

"The public will see Labour's cynical move for what it is - too little, too late.

"What Dr Cullen is saying is that it's more important to him as Minister of Finance to sit on a great pile of money. But where's the sense of fairness and equity in that?

"Michael Cullen and Helen Clark should apologise to the public for this blatant gouging of taxpayers."


this is from the very disreputable information source called Forbes

also in full quote so you don't have to actually click

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2005/11/EXX3.html


One of the few women to become prime minister of New Zealand, Clark, 55, is pushing to grow a resurgent economy alongside neighboring Asian tigers. "We have left behind our sleepy past to become an open and dynamic economy, experiencing among the fastest growth and the lowest unemployment in the developed world," Clark recently said. New Zealand's GDP grew 4.8% in 2004, unemployment is 3.9% and the government has a budget surplus. Clark is also New Zealand's minister for arts, culture and heritage, where she is usually found touting the success of Lord of the Rings trilogy, which was filmed in New Zealand.


this is something the Greens said....just for good measure and balance - ahhh that child poverty thing, still going on about it. Silly greens.

https://home.greens.org.nz/press-releases/use-budget-surplus-fund-universal-child-benefit


and here we have bill english giving tax cuts

GDP figures confirm need for government’s growth plan

23 December 2008 1 Comment
Gross Domestic Product figures issued this morning confirm the need for the government's robust economic plan to lift New Zealanders' incomes through sustainable medium to long-term growth, Finance Minister Bill English says.

"The economic situation we have inherited calls for decisive action and that's what we are committed to delivering for New Zealanders through a number of initiatives we have underway," Mr English says.

Statistics New Zealand has confirmed that production-based GDP, the broadest measure of economic activity, fell 0.4 per cent in the September year, extending the recession into a third successive quarter.

The figures were not surprising, given the sharply deteriorating global and domestic scenarios set out in the Treasury's December Economic and Fiscal Update (DEFU) last week, Mr English says.

With the global economic outlook remaining of concern, it was now essential that New Zealand's economy was put on a medium to long-term growth footing as quickly as possible.

"Our challenge for 2009 is to put New Zealand in the strongest possible position to take advantage of better economic times when they come internationally. A sustainable plan that brings together coherent, growth-focused policies is long overdue.

"We have already started implementing our economic plan, which includes tax cuts to put more money in New Zealanders' pockets, bringing forward infrastructure spending to support economic growth and extracting better value out of government spending. We will continue that momentum in the New Year."

from here http://www.billenglish.co.nz/authors/categories/1-Media-Releases/www/www/P52.html



so yeah, man what ever, google is your friend

[Akzle]

Listen love, it's this simple: governments don't produce surpluses, industry does. And the more you can do to encourage them the more tax they'll pay.

So any socialist leaning govt, (red flavoured union based or blue flavoured) hyper-focused on where they want to spend money and completely oblivious as to where it comes from is always going to create nothing but poverty all round in the long run.

Want a better standard of living for everyone, including your "poor"? Then get the fuck out of the way and let your industrial democracy do it's job.

All clear?

proven to work!




...since/until the next/last depression...

[mada]

Now show us the revenue from which those govts produced those returns.

Labour blew fucking huge surpluses for years, and when they finally got arseholed National inherited the bad times.

They could have borrowed less, I think they should have. But they tread a fine line between stimulating the economy and committing future taxpayers to loan repayments. Are you qualified to comment on the costs./benefits of any particular point on that continuum? And could you bear the whining from the "oh noes, austerity measures" crowd if they'd borrowed less?

Some may be, again there's a balance to be attempted there, between off shore investment and tax liability. I'd like some changes, there.

You contradict yourself though, the only ones who can do anything for the economy is industry according to your previous post. So by this argument Labour did a good job for 9 years of achieving surpluses and expanding exports. Arguably without the FTA, our exports to China would not be as great so our present financial predicament would be a lot fucking worse.

The stimulating of the economy you talk about - most of this has been contradictory to the free market principles that you expouse, why because Capitalists know they actually would lose a fuckload of money if they had to operate on a free market with competition.

Socialism for the big boy bludgers, and capitalism for the rest of us.

[blue rider]

Your response is very simple.

Why does government have a reason to mess with housing? Because we pay billions in accommodation supplements/income related rents every year which gives a subsidy to those who invest in properties. Let alone, the billions wasted through investment and debt that could be put into productive industry.

As for finance, I don't give a toss who invests what and where, you seem to miss the point that I made in which we the TAXPAYER were made to GUARANTEE them and paid out billions for that.

Your last comment if fucking funny to, the implications of it being that John Key is as far RIGHT as its possible to get in a democracy and survive an election, and by yours and others right wing words he's not even that right wing. :killingme:killingme

:brick::brick::brick::brick:



the little ocean one is a wee Ayn Rand Groupie and considers himself to be an island or sum such thing.

He will never get old.
He will never be poor.
He will never loose his job.
He will never have an accident that may cause him to need a Nurse to wipe his arse.
He will never never ever know anyone that might need a nurse for some arse wiping.

His Father and His Mother build the hospital in which he was born. They also grew all the food he ate when he was a depended youngling. His parents on grounds of ideologie of course refused the Union wage they could have earned, or any other benefits of the social welfare state created by Mr. Savage. Also he was homeschooled and then he build the University he went to and paid the Profs and Faculty staff :)
He will also not apply for any help should he ever need it, Becasue. He. Is. Ocean. One. Damn it.

And that is why he is so effn grumpy all the time, its either that or constipation. I have not yet quite made up my mind.

[husaberg]

Now show us the revenue from which those govts produced those returns.

Labour blew fucking huge surpluses for years, and when they finally got arseholed National inherited the bad times.

They could have borrowed less, I think they should have. But they tread a fine line between stimulating the economy and committing future taxpayers to loan repayments. Are you qualified to comment on the costs./benefits of any particular point on that continuum? And could you bear the whining from the "oh noes, austerity measures" crowd if they'd borrowed less?

Some may be, again there's a balance to be attempted there, between off shore investment and tax liability. I'd like some changes, there.

Revenue lol employment and standard of living, they were good times, of course in your opinion. it was in spite of the government wasn't it.
To say National inherited a problem is in my opinion self serving twaddle, of coarse in your opinion it is still Labours fault.
National are currently borrowing NZ into a huge problem but don't worry, they will sell more silverware for zero return.


If you ask 4 different economists the same question, you will then receive 4 different answers, 5 if one has been to Harvard;)

[mada]

the little ocean one is a wee Ayn Rand Groupie and considers himself to be an island or sum such thing.

He will never get old.
He will never be poor.
He will never loose his job.
He will never have an accident that may cause him to need a Nurse to wipe his arse.
He will never never ever know anyone that might need a nurse for some arse wiping.

His Father and His Mother build the hospital in which he was born. They also grew all the food he ate when he was a depended youngling. His parents on grounds of ideologie of course refused the Union wage they could have earned, or any other benefits of the social welfare state created by Mr. Savage. Also he was homeschooled and then he build the University he went to and paid the Profs and Faculty staff :)
He will also not apply for any help should he ever need it, Becasue. He. Is. Ocean. One. Damn it.

And that is why he is so effn grumpy all the time, its either that or constipation. I have not yet quite made up my mind.

hahahhahah :third: That wins the prize of this thread.


The state provides nothing and creates nothing, it has no role in anything in our lives. Industry creates and does everything. Obviously the sex industry created Ocean?!??!:devil2::devil2::laugh::laugh:

[Ocean1]

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0610/S00174.htm

and because I don't think that you ever click on a link i will post the article in Full. I will also highlight the name of the person from National that is pissed that Helen Clark and the Government has gauged the NZ Puplic by not cutting tax.


Yes. You'd already said that.

And he's right, Labour had tax money to burn for fucking years, more than they could easily spend.

So your point is, again?

[blue rider]

the man is on the sauce or he really has just stopped to pretend.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11368941&ref=mobile


The Prime Minister has said no directive has been given to the Defence Force from Parliament to prepare troops for deployment to Iraq.

John Key's comment comes after Defence Minister Gerry Brownlee said training had begun on a contingency basis.

Mr Key said he was waiting for information from a scoping team sent to Iraq had advised him.

"The government hasn't given them any instructions at all.

"It would be impossible for them to be training for the exact mission that we might send to Iraq because the Government hasn't had any advice on that."

Mr Key said Mr Brownlee had been clear on the issue yesterday.

https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/newshome/25676293/army-not-preparing-for-iraq-deployment-brownlee/


Defence Minister Gerry Brownlee is denying the army's been told to prepare for a deployment to Iraq.

His office says training, including language and cultural tuition has begun should the Government decide to send troops to train the Iraqi Army to fight ISIS.

Mr Brownlee says that's perfectly normal even though a decision hasn't been made.

"All armies train.

"Why do you have an army?

"They don't sit around sunbathing all day, they train for the possibility of being deployed - that's why you have an


but then

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/63812024/Kiwi-troops-training-for-Iraq-deployment-Mark


Mark, NZ First's defence spokesman and a former army major, said troops had known as early as last month they were entering pre-deployment training for Iraq, yet Defence Minister Gerry Brownlee denied any decision had been made.

Mark said the Government had been "economic with the truth".

"They've not been open with the public and they're not answering questions with complete honesty," he said.

Mark said sources had told him 150 people had been earmarked for deployment and told they should prepare for deployment between the end of February and the beginning of March.

Phase 1 of the training started on Monday and would continue until December 18.


or maybe this

http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=198127&fm=newsmain%2Cnrhl


4 December 2014
Soldiers training for deployment to Iraq shouldn't anticipate actually going there, Defence Minister Gerry Brownlee says.

The Defence Force confirmed on Thursday that pre-deployment training had started.

A spokesman told NZ Newswire the decision had been its own, and no instruction was received from the government.

Speaking in parliament, Mr Brownlee said the training involved "language and culture and various other things".

"There has been no decision on any deployment to the Middle East," he said.

"No soldier should anticipate any deployment at all."

NZ First MP Ron Mark, a former army officer, says up to 150 troops from 1 Battalion Royal New Zealand Infantry are training at Waiouru.

He says they've been told to anticipate deployment at the end of February or early March next year.

Labour's defence spokesman, Phil Goff, also says training has started and believes the government has made a decision to deploy the troops.

"The government is refusing to come clean about pre-deployment training for Iraq because they cannot justify their decision to deploy our troops," he said.

"It's time they fessed up and admitted it."

The government has decided to participate in the coalition that's fighting Islamic State extremists in the Middle East and is deciding in what capacity it should do that.

It has said it won't send troops in a combat role, but an option is for them to join an Australian-led force which would train Iraqi forces.

Four army officers are in Iraq assessing the situation.

Mr Brownlee says he doesn't expect formal advice from them until early next year.


ahhh they finally get to play big dicks in iraq. Cause the evil wicket witch did not let them go the first time around.

[mada]

Revenue lol employment and standard of living, they were good times, of course in your opinion. it was in spite of the government wasn't it.
To say National inherited a problem is in my opinion self serving twaddle, of coarse in your opinion it is still Labours fault.
National are currently borrowing NZ into a huge problem but don't worry, they will sell more silverware for zero return.


If you ask 4 different economists the same question, you will then receive 4 different answers, 5 if one has been to Harvard;)

The funniest thing about all this shit, is that when Jenny Shipleys government was up shit creek, they pulled out the "we should change the flag" debate in 1999. Must be a good sign of stability for John Key when his government again pulls it out that we should change Brand NZ with a cost tag of $30 million just for two referendums, not even changing all the flags, emblems, etc. etc.

[blue rider]

The funniest thing about all this shit, is that when Jenny Shipleys government was up shit creek, they pulled out the "we should change the flag" debate in 1999. Must be a good sign of stability for John Key when his government again pulls it out that we should change Brand NZ with a cost tag of $30 million just for two referendums, not even changing all the flags, emblems, etc. etc.

some referendums are more equal than other referendums.

[Ocean1]

Your response is very simple.

Why does government have a reason to mess with housing? Because we pay billions in accommodation supplements/income related rents every year which gives a subsidy to those who invest in properties. Let alone, the billions wasted through investment and debt that could be put into productive industry.

As for finance, I don't give a toss who invests what and where, you seem to miss the point that I made in which we the TAXPAYER were made to GUARANTEE them and paid out billions for that.

Your last comment if fucking funny to, the implications of it being that John Key is as far RIGHT as its possible to get in a democracy and survive an election, and by yours and others right wing words he's not even that right wing. :killingme:killingme

:brick::brick::brick::brick:

It's a very simple problem. If you didn't fuck with the market by subsidising users then you wouldn't have an artificial market. So don't do it.

And what's the consequences of failing to provide some form of investment guarantee? I don't care either way, just as long as the rules are understood up front.

And the logic of your implication is incorrect. It might be correct if there was a flat tax, as it is buying a majority vote using money take from the minority high earners shapes the form of every government to the socialist end of the spectrum.

[mada]

It's a very simple problem. If you didn't fuck with the market by subsidising users then you wouldn't have an artificial market. So don't do it.

And what's the consequences of failing to provide some form of investment guarantee? I don't care either way, just as long as the rules are understood up front.

And the logic of your implication is incorrect. It might be correct if there was a flat tax, as it is buying a majority vote using money take from the minority high earners shapes the form of every government to the socialist end of the spectrum.

So John Key was right when he said all NZ'ers have a socialist streak... except for yourself obviously.

[Brian d marge]

Rejoice humble peeps of NZ, Dear Leader has found something else to sell

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10836045
hahahahahahahahahaha

classic

[Ocean1]

Revenue lol employment and standard of living, they were good times, of course in your opinion. it was in spite of the government wasn't it.
To say National inherited a problem is in my opinion self serving twaddle, of coarse in your opinion it is still Labours fault.
National are currently borrowing NZ into a huge problem but don't worry, they will sell more silverware for zero return.


If you ask 4 different economists the same question, you will then receive 4 different answers, 5 if one has been to Harvard;)

You don't really want me to tell you why I think they were good times. Suficient to say I don't think there's much influence temporary govt policy has on economic performance. Saying National inherited a failing economy isn't self serving twaddle, it's a matter of historic fact. Now, any govt taking too much credit or blame for economic good times or bad is self serving twaddle, because they do very little to contribute to them.

My observation was that during a period of almost unprecedented income generated not by govt but by industry and it's employees the Labour govt took the windfall and spent it on the most banal social engineering imaginable is also a matter of historic fact.

Arseholes.

And as I said, I'd rather National borrowed less. But as I also said it's quite possible they know more about that balance than me or you. And what's the total % of assets sold so far dude?

[husaberg]

You don't really want me to tell you why I think they were good times. Suficient to say I don't think there's much influence temporary govt policy has on economic performance. Saying National inherited a failing economy isn't self serving twaddle, it's a matter of historic fact. Now, any govt taking too much credit or blame for economic good times or bad is self serving twaddle, because they do very little to contribute to them.

My observation was that during a period of almost unprecedented income generated not by govt but by industry and it's employees the Labour govt took the windfall and spent it on the most banal social engineering imaginable is also a matter of historic fact.

Arseholes.

And as I said, I'd rather National borrowed less. But as I also said it's quite possible they know more about that balance than me or you. And what's the total % of assets sold so far dude?

You say potatoes I say tomatoes

[Ocean1]

proven to work!




...since/until the next/last depression...

And in between.

http://www.heritage.org/index/pdf/2007/index2007_chapter1.pdf

[Ocean1]

So John Key was right when he said all NZ'ers have a socialist streak... except for yourself obviously.

Given the obvious lean here he's right.

But that's got nothing to do with the fact that the votes of a majority are bought with the money taken from a minority. Or the fact that that shapes govt policy much further to the left than a genuine collective poll would.

[pete376403]

A few pages back posters were giving Helen Clarks government grief about bringing in the deposit guarantee scheme. Don't those posters also recall that the main reason for this (deposit guarantee) was that the Australian government had already introduced a similar scheme and the fear was that, unless the NZ financial markets were also covered, too much capital would have been pulled out of NZ to go to Australia?

[Ocean1]

You say potatoes I say tomatoes

I'm saying neither lately, my gardening skills wouldn't feed many.

[mada]

A few pages back posters were giving Helen Clarks government grief about bringing in the deposit guarantee scheme. Don't those posters also recall that the main reason for this (deposit guarantee) was that the Australian government had already introduced a similar scheme and the fear was that, unless the NZ financial markets were also covered, too much capital would have been pulled out of NZ to go to Australia?

That's a good point, but it shows yet another example of the hundreds and thousands where a NZ govt has to bend over backwards to prop up and effectively subsidise the poor and high risks of private businesses aka Corporate Socialism - where investors get the dividends and profits, but we pay for the losses.

[Ocean1]

You contradict yourself though, the only ones who can do anything for the economy is industry according to your previous post. So by this argument Labour did a good job for 9 years of achieving surpluses and expanding exports. Arguably without the FTA, our exports to China would not be as great so our present financial predicament would be a lot fucking worse.

Where's the contradiction? Labour didn't do any sort of job achieving surpluses for 9 years, industry did. The fact that they got out of the fucking way of the productive sector so far as to negotiate a mutual reduction in duty by both NZ and China is a good thing, but lets not pretend it amounts to the actual production of anything, eh?


The stimulating of the economy you talk about - most of this has been contradictory to the free market principles that you expouse, why because Capitalists know they actually would lose a fuckload of money if they had to operate on a free market with competition.

Socialism for the big boy bludgers, and capitalism for the rest of us.

There's some truth there. Although I suspect that when you use the word capitalist you imagine one of the multitude of off shore monopolies operating in NZ. Most of which are driven not by any ideological concept of capitalism but of creative accounting.

I have no idea why you have a problem with the concept of a buyer negotiating a price with a seller without outside interference, that's socialism on a stick.

[Ocean1]

That's a good point, but it shows yet another example of the hundreds and thousands where a NZ govt has to bend over backwards to prop up and effectively subsidise the poor and high risks of private businesses aka Corporate Socialism - where investors get the dividends and profits, but we pay for the losses.

Corporate socialism is a contradiction in terms. If you object to any entity paying for something they aren't getting and over which they have little to no control then welcome to the world of the free market advocate.

[mada]

Corporate socialism is a contradiction in terms. If you object to any entity paying for something they aren't getting and over which they have little to no control then welcome to the world of the free market advocate.

Ofcourse, however as we've discussed before, the free market exists in only a few places, hardly in industry. What business has an interest in being competitive for their consumers, opposed to getting a bigger chunk of the market and pushing out other competitors??? The only type of business like that is non-profit driven.

The only place that I've seen a real fucking free market, operating with minimal regulation and the maximum ability of both Consumer and Seller to bargain for a price that meets both their expectations is on the streets of Guangzhou in China where there are hundreds of thousands of suppliers and hundreds of thousands of buyers. Ironic given China is supposedly "communist". Everywhere else producers, industry, etc. set prices and look at ways to dominate their market pushing out competition and manipulating demand and supply. Always seeking government support either through subsidies or preferential regulations.

NZ's biggest industries all thrive because of their anti-competitive nature - Dairy and the "Co-operative" Fonterra which requires government to give it preferential regulation and support in Foreign Affairs. In terms of meat exports - Silver Fern Farms another "co-operative", the Kiwifruit industry, in fact most exporters and producers in NZ regardless of whether they are NZ or Multinational owned.

The cold hard truth is that NZ is too small, too isolated, and too fucking poor and indebted to have a deregulated free market for industry, besides the ethics of placing so much trust in businesses that are motivated to make maximal profit regardless of everything else.

[Brian d marge]

the only place ive seen pure market forces was in the boreal forest in canada

[oldrider]

Ofcourse, however as we've discussed before, the free market exists in only a few places, hardly in industry. What business has an interest in being competitive for their consumers, opposed to getting a bigger chunk of the market and pushing out other competitors??? The only type of business like that is non-profit driven.

The only place that I've seen a real fucking free market, operating with minimal regulation and the maximum ability of both Consumer and Seller to bargain for a price that meets both their expectations is on the streets of Guangzhou in China where there are hundreds of thousands of suppliers and hundreds of thousands of buyers. Ironic given China is supposedly "communist". Everywhere else producers, industry, etc. set prices and look at ways to dominate their market pushing out competition and manipulating demand and supply. Always seeking government support either through subsidies or preferential regulations.

NZ's biggest industries all thrive because of their anti-competitive nature - Dairy and the "Co-operative" Fonterra which requires government to give it preferential regulation and support in Foreign Affairs. In terms of meat exports - Silver Fern Farms another "co-operative", the Kiwifruit industry, in fact most exporters and producers in NZ regardless of whether they are NZ or Multinational owned.

The cold hard truth is that NZ is too small, too isolated, and too fucking poor and indebted to have a deregulated free market for industry, besides the ethics of placing so much trust in businesses that are motivated to make maximal profit regardless of everything else.

China is communist in name only and USA is capitalist only where it fits ... so as they say - whats in a name these days? :rolleyes:

[blue rider]

stuff happens

maybe
or at least a little bit

and also henchmen

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/04/nsa-auroragold-hack-cellphones/



The information collected from the companies is passed onto NSA “signals development” teams that focus on infiltrating communication networks. It is also shared with other U.S. Intelligence Community agencies and with the NSA’s counterparts in countries that are part of the so-called “Five Eyes” surveillance alliance—the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.



henchmen everywhere

but, we can all breathe a sigh of relieve, these are not socialist government spying on us. No they are conservative, freedom loving, no regulations for some kind a guys. So I guess that makes it all so much better.

mhhhh

http://www.vodafone.co.nz/corporate-responsibility/report-2013/economic-impacts/

:)

[Ocean1]

Ofcourse, however as we've discussed before, the free market exists in only a few places, hardly in industry. What business has an interest in being competitive for their consumers, opposed to getting a bigger chunk of the market and pushing out other competitors??? The only type of business like that is non-profit driven.

The only place that I've seen a real fucking free market, operating with minimal regulation and the maximum ability of both Consumer and Seller to bargain for a price that meets both their expectations is on the streets of Guangzhou in China where there are hundreds of thousands of suppliers and hundreds of thousands of buyers. Ironic given China is supposedly "communist". Everywhere else producers, industry, etc. set prices and look at ways to dominate their market pushing out competition and manipulating demand and supply. Always seeking government support either through subsidies or preferential regulations.

NZ's biggest industries all thrive because of their anti-competitive nature - Dairy and the "Co-operative" Fonterra which requires government to give it preferential regulation and support in Foreign Affairs. In terms of meat exports - Silver Fern Farms another "co-operative", the Kiwifruit industry, in fact most exporters and producers in NZ regardless of whether they are NZ or Multinational owned.

The cold hard truth is that NZ is too small, too isolated, and too fucking poor and indebted to have a deregulated free market for industry, besides the ethics of placing so much trust in businesses that are motivated to make maximal profit regardless of everything else.

The only groups not wanting a free market are those making money from people who don't want to pay them. And yes, there's a bunch of companies I have to deal with in spite of the fact that they don't provide much for what they cost. But the people who get most of my money that's freely given are exactly the businesses that thrive in a free market: the SMEs that represent 80% of this economy's GDP. To claim those business enterprises are anti free market is drivel.

And while China may be a nominally communist regime it's also one of the largest capitalist entities on the planet. Having a central political control directing that much capital makes it possibly the least free market anywhere.

Invoking artificial monopolies as examples of business against free trade is probably relevant, although most of them are either public services or operating under some govt mandate. But so is pointing out that unions are price fixing on a far more open and widespread basis. Why choose sides? Just hammer any sort of collusion in trying to manipulate any market.

[Brian d marge]

The only groups not wanting a free market are those making money from people who don't want to pay them. And yes, there's a bunch of companies I have to deal with in spite of the fact that they don't provide much for what they cost. But the people who get most of my money that's freely given are exactly the businesses that thrive in a free market: the SMEs that represent 80% of this economy's GDP. To claim those business enterprises are anti free market is drivel.

And while China may be a nominally communist regime it's also one of the largest capitalist entities on the planet. Having a central political control directing that much capital makes it possibly the least free market anywhere.

Invoking artificial monopolies as examples of business against free trade is probably relevant, although most of them are either public services or operating under some govt mandate. But so is pointing out that unions are price fixing on a far more open and widespread basis. Why choose sides? Just hammer any sort of collusion in trying to manipulate any market.
that is the free market
the company u deal with is charging what the market will bear , . ,

unless there are laws in place that protect those companies

as ive repeatly said the only pure free market is the natural forest and even that is a rare thing

[Swoop]

And he's right, Labour had tax money to burn for fucking years, more than they could easily spend.
They seemed quite capable of spending it all on a train set (used, several previous owners, needs repair, only the genuinely stupid need bid, etc, etc).

[husaberg]

http://blog.labour.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/johnkeystruts1.gif
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/260819/govt-tacking-away-from-cup-funding

[Ocean1]

They seemed quite capable of spending it all on a train set (used, several previous owners, needs repair, only the genuinely stupid need bid, etc, etc).

That wasn't the bad bit. The bad bit was the sale was tied to maintenance and supply contracts with the vendor, at prices that made the asset purchase look like tea money. To say the deal was unwise would be a breath-taking understatement, the level of incompetence involved unbelievable, we'll be paying for it for decades.

[oldrider]

That wasn't the bad bit. The bad bit was the sale was tied to maintenance and supply contracts with the vendor, at prices that made the asset purchase look like tea money. To say the deal was unwise would be a breath-taking understatement, the level of incompetence involved unbelievable, we'll be paying for it for decades.

Like a boxer in a losing situation - when all is lost throw a low blow! ... Labour are losers but it came back to bight them again last time!

Now they are trying to make a comeback with a fast yapping union delegate waxing lyrical about fuck all - will they ever learn? ... Nobody wants them! :no:

[Swoop]

...a fast yapping union delegate waxing lyrical about fuck all...
Best described as SNAFU.

Really, they should be telemarketers.

[oldrider]

Beware the Christmas break --- it is a well used time to introduce and sneak in unpalatable legislation while attentions are distracted! :shifty:

Remember John Key does not celebrate Christmas ... rust never sleeps and probably neither does John Key! ... Stay alert! :yes: . :yawn: . :sleep:

[Oscar]

Beware the Christmas break --- it is a well used time to introduce and sneak in unpalatable legislation while attentions are distracted! :shifty:



That would be an interesting trick as Parliment doesn't sit over Xmas.
You should give your childish paranoia a rest over Xmas and maybe Santa will call on you (or maybe Mossad).

[oldrider]

That would be an interesting trick as Parliment doesn't sit over Xmas.
You should give your childish paranoia a rest over Xmas and maybe Santa will call on you (or maybe Mossad).

Back on the scene all pumped up with piss and wind I see ... oh well merry Christmas to you and yours! :sunny:

[mashman]

Back on the scene all pumped up with piss and wind I see ... oh well merry Christmas to you and yours! :sunny:

Nah, he's just waiting for the visit of christmas future.

[oldrider]

That would be an interesting trick as Parliment doesn't sit over Xmas.
You should give your childish paranoia a rest over Xmas and maybe Santa will call on you (or maybe Mossad).

OK I have to suck it up because I can't find the case material I was thinking of, anyway the urgency laws have been changed since then. (MMP) :spanking:

[Winston001]

Sudden silence from the protesters in Oz and NZ against surveillance and anti-terrorism laws. In fact quite the opposite.

Aussies are shouting very loudly as to why this filthy cretin in Sydney wasn't identified much earlier.

Its a bugger isn't it. Tie up the sneaky spy v spy and Mr Plod so they are both ineffective but scream at them when some irrational loon actually kills someone.

[awayatc]

If a lunatic happens to be muslim,

does that qualify as terrorism......?.

How convenient........

[mashman]

Stop Mixing Up Islamic Flags: A Guide for Lazy Journalists (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/12/islamic-isis-flags-black-banners-hamas).

[husaberg]

If a lunatic happens to be muslim,

does that qualify as terrorism......?.

How convenient........

How many people did the US ex Marine kill...... barely gets a mention?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2874582/Five-people-shot-dead-Pennsylvania-military-veteran-gunman-barricades-home.html

[yokel]

If a lunatic happens to be muslim,

does that qualify as terrorism......?.

How convenient........

The "lone wolf" is now according to the MSM the latest terrorist threat

[Oscar]

Stop Mixing Up Islamic Flags: A Guide for Lazy Journalists (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/12/islamic-isis-flags-black-banners-hamas).


Most of the Australasian media got it right, and in good time.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/flag-being-held-by-lindt-chocolat-cafe-hostages-is-not-an-islamic-state-flag-20141215-1279s0.html
(http://www.smh.com.au/national/flag-being-held-by-lindt-chocolat-cafe-hostages-is-not-an-islamic-state-flag-20141215-1279s0.html)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11374699

[Brian d marge]

didnt nz have a few nut jobs shooting people . .

[awayatc]

Yes we did......
And I can help you make a list of nutjobs that deserve shooting.....

Not holding my breath....
just quietly praying to allah

[mashman]

How many people did the US ex Marine kill...... barely gets a mention?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2874582/Five-people-shot-dead-Pennsylvania-military-veteran-gunman-barricades-home.html

Must have needed a flag.

[oldrider]

Current and existing legislation should have contained that nutcase in Australia but the execution of it failed and innocent people were executed instead! :ar15:

The pendulum has swung too far the do gooders have gone too far - judges and lawyers are part of the problem rather than the solution now! :yes:

He even had a current gun license FFS! :facepalm:

[Scuba_Steve]

didnt nz have a few nut jobs shooting people . .

Yea most of them tend to wear Police patches... they also like to shoot dogs, well try anyways they're not very good at it

[buggerit]

I think it is a little naive to be suprised by nut jobs living in a penal colony<_<

[mada]

Imagine if Jan Molenaar had been a muslim.:yawn:

[oldrider]

Imagine if Jan Molenaar had been a muslim.:yawn:

Hmmm - fair enough but maybe nobody else here knows/remembers who Jan Molenaar was! :no: .. (Hint: :ar15:Napier 2009)

[Robert Taylor]

i havent even checked how well i polled. My 'vote ax' campaign obviously missed the mark. I blame all you faggots.

I dont consent to be governed.

Hypocrite, you will happily though accept the benefits of how tax dollars are spent. What we need is a General Pinochet clone to do a bit of a spring clean here and there.

[oldrider]

Hypocrite, you will happily though accept the benefits of how tax dollars are spent. What we need is a General Pinochet clone to do a bit of a spring clean here and there.

Careful what you wish for - General Pinochet might not have been keen on Robert Taylors' .. you might end up as part of the spring experience! :bye: . :shit:

[SPman]

Another example of nice and comfy Johnboy's dealings


Back in 2011, National, the party of wheeler-dealers, cut a nice little crony capitalist deal with their donors Sky City: Sky City would build a new convention centre in Auckland, and in exchange we'd relax gambling laws to allow them to suck more money out of the poor, and pick up the tab if the centre went over-budget. Doing the negotiation process, Treasury warned that this was a bad idea:


However, if Ministers wish to proceed with a contractual arrangement with SkyCity, Treasury considers that the difficulty of accurately assessing both the costs of the building and the revenue generated by the concessions will inevitably expose the Government to significant risks. These relate to both the information asymmetry between SkyCity and the Crown and costs to the Crown in respect of both negotiating the contract initially and then managing it over an extended period such as 25 years.


That warning has now come true:


Design improvements, a new five-star hotel and inflation have rocketed up the SkyCity convention centre's pricetag by as much as $130 million.
And while additional gambling concessions are off the table to meet any shortfall for the building, taxpayer funding is under discussion.



Sky City made a profit of $123 million last year, so its not as if they can't afford to cover the extra cost. But why would they, when the government has agreed to? Indeed, why bother to control costs at all, when any increase or overrun will be paid for by someone else? The incentives National wrote into the deal are terrible, and a perfect example of the perils of crony capitalism. As for how to deal with it, the answer is simple: walk away. If Sky City thinks an international convention centre is so profitable, they can fund it themselves. And if its not, they shouldn't expect us to subsidise their operations and their profits.

But that's OK - no doubt the public are happy to pay up, yet again, for these economic geniuses wheeler dealering.......after all - they voted them back in...........

[Brian d marge]

Another example of nice and comfy Johnboy's dealings



But that's OK - no doubt the public are happy to pay up, yet again, for these economic geniuses wheeler dealering.......after all - they voted them back in...........
strangely enough
nz treasury are one of the better one
MOST of their investment . . .last time i looked made quite good profits
acc was something like 11 %

but . . . . . the shonkey honkey got involved , .

[awa355]

Now, this morning. Starting to turn pear shaped me thinks.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11378108

[oldrider]

Another example of nice and comfy Johnboy's dealings



But that's OK - no doubt the public are happy to pay up, yet again, for these economic geniuses wheeler dealering.......after all - they voted them back in...........

My interpretation of events was that New Zealand voted all of the others "out" ... rather than voted this government "in"!

Under MMP we can only vote aspirants to power "out" ... that result was very clear as to "who we did not want in!" :headbang:

[Brian d marge]

greenpiece released a press statement stating in that the common lummoux has been placed on the endangered list due to spiraling environmental costs

[oldrider]

John Key says (at Waitangi today) we just can't stand by and do nothing while ISIS atrocities are going on!

OK - but why do they find it so easy to stand by while Israel is committing atrocities against the Palestinians? :shutup: . :cool:

Does it make a difference when it involves the wishes of his USA friends? - Who's interest does John Key serve first, NZ or USA et al? :shifty: Valid question or not?

Maori are asking for priority to be given to anomalies on the home front before spending money on (helping?) Iraq - do they have valid a point?

Consistency John Key? :scratch:

[puddytat]

His lying & memory loss is CONsistant......

[Brian d marge]

if the pressure put upon you is in the higher order
compliance is a very real possibility

[oldrider]

Today in parliament - the prime minister was emphatic and emotional in his outburst of support for sending troops to help fight ISIS atrocities against humanity!

Had to be impressed with his sincerity and fervor on the matter! - might even feel supportive of him - BUT!

Only problem is consistency - where was this same commitment when it came to the same atrocities that Israel has been committing against the Palestinians in GAZA!

Nowhere in sight and his silence on the matter has been deafening! - why John Key? - where do your loyalties lie? - selective according to Israel and USA demands?

Not all of Israel is anti Palestinian: http://www.alternet.org/world/6-holocaust-survivors-who-fight-against-israels-treatment-palestinians

[Akzle]

Today in parliament - the prime minister was emphatic and emotional in his outburst of support for sending troops to help fight ISIS atrocities against humanity!

Had to be impressed with his sincerity and fervor on the matter! - might even feel supportive of him - BUT!

Only problem is consistency - where was this same commitment when it came to the same atrocities that Israel has been committing against the Palestinians in GAZA!

Nowhere in sight and his silence on the matter has been deafening! - why John Key? - where do your loyalties lie? - selective according to Israel and USA demands?


no-one is putting the question to the weasley jew fuck.

and if they did, in his arrogance, he would shrug and say something like "isis is bad hmkay, the majority of NZ voted for us. so go eat a dick"

lead, is what that cunt needs. delivered at about 2000 fps.