Police getting tougher on speed tolerance

[Swoop]

We decry the standard of driving in Noo Zeeland. Awful drivers, we say. Worst in the world.

Then we defend their right to go faster.

Yes and no.
There have been instances where a road's speed has been taken away unnecessarily.
For example, East Coast Rd on the Nth Shore. This used to be a windy, narrow road and was posted as 80kmh.
The council came along, widened and straightened it - then put a 50kmh limit on it.


Sadly the main problem is left unattended. Road users who fail to keep left unless overtaking.

[unstuck]

Yes and no.
There have been instances where a road's speed has been taken away unnecessarily.
For example, East Coast Rd on the Nth Shore. This used to be a windy, narrow road and was posted as 80kmh.
The council came along, widened and straightened it - then put a 50kmh limit on it.


Sadly the main problem is left unattended. Road users who fail to keep left unless overtaking.

Damn that was a good road in the anglia when it was gravel.:headbang::headbang:

[Scuba_Steve]

Damn that was a good road in the anglia when it was gravel.:headbang::headbang:

Every road's a good road when it's gravel :Punk:

[unstuck]

Every road's a good road when it's gravel :Punk:

True.:2thumbsup

[Paul in NZ]

Well I don’t know about this anymore…

I suspect most people wouldn’t have so much have an issue with the removal of a tolerance if it had not come at the tail end of a bunch of other ‘initiative’s’ where the main result is the majority suffering because of the actions of a few. 60kph speed limits around Pauatahanui Inlet because some boy racer plonkers parked their car upside down in the middle of the inlet and someone died? What about the thousands who used the road and didn’t do anything stupid?

As a motorcyclist – I have on occasion gone too fast on the Queens highway.. Its fun and the feeling of a large bike peeling away is utterly magic…. And – I’m neither dead or in prison for killing anyone else… Yet the statistics indicate that speed and the death rate are linked… But how can this be possible??? It seems inconceivable that a self confessed speeder who has ridden bikes that long could possibly have survived…

No one wants anyone to die in a road accident… It’s a horrible and expensive death… But at some point surely we have to say that if we want the freedom of having our own cars and bikes then some kind of road toll is inevitable… It’s a matter of balancing personal freedoms against the need to reduce that figure…

Already more people die every year from Influenza?

I just think we are at that point where we are pretty well over hearing about this and loosing what little fun is left in life because despite what they say it IS possible to have fun without killing anyone…

[TheDemonLord]

Every road's a good road when it's gravel :Punk:

Except when you are on your GSX650F and wasn't expecting it to be Gravel....

[Gremlin]

Except when you are on your GSX650F and wasn't expecting it to be Gravel....
Surprise gravel is always fun... except when the rabbit hole you headed into to explore, has turned out to be an extensive labyrinth, and it's now getting dark and raining... and home is still a fair ride away...

[BlackSheepLogic]

This reminds me of a town I visited in the early 90's while in Saudi Arabia. There was a major highway and every so often you would see a sign pointing to a town in the desert. There was no roads just a sign pointing in the general direction you needed to go.

We did find the town but could not find the highway again. Our visa's were also restricted to a 20K area where we worked so been caught or handed over by the localst would have been a lot of grief. We eventually stumbled across some Bedouin who allowed us to follow their camels until we could see the highway. Didn't visit anymore towns in Saudi after that experience.


Surprise gravel is always fun... except when the rabbit hole you headed into to explore, has turned out to be an extensive labyrinth, and it's now getting dark and raining... and home is still a fair ride away...

[Taxythingy]

Except when you are on your GSX650F and wasn't expecting it to be Gravel....

How're your fording skills on that?

[Moise]

Gee you soon collect a convoy driving at 50 km/h on Auckland streets...

[TheDemonLord]

How're your fording skills on that?

Not too bad, although my Holdening skills could do with some refining...


Ba-Dum CHA!

[husaberg]

Isn't unstuck a party member?

306229...................

[R650R]

Well I encountered a new flavour of bullshit today.

At one of our regions blackspots in a road I don't normally travel, 100km/h zone.
Come over the rise and WTF there's one of those flashing speed signs like in Ngaurange gorge flashing at 70km/h. I slow to about 80 and it goes out before I go past it.
A little further there is a CCTV type camera on pole but not one of those new speed cameras. A car had just pulled out of side road, I'm figuring its triggered by that.
But no signage warning of this impending technicolour LED light show that ended up distracting me from the real hazard of the car pulling out...

[blue rider]

Cool. That explains it.

Every crash is someone else's fault. And bad driving is done by everyone else.

Doesn't change the fact that if you're going a bit slower when someone else does bad driving to you you'll be better off.

so when is the Police advocating for proper driver training?

I am not kidding on this. The one thing that gets me every single time is just how aggressive and rude drivers are in NZ. But if one receives just enough driver training from Mum and Pop Submarine 4 wheel tank driver, that is what I expect. Your car is bigger, faster and betterer, so push on through son or daughter.

What is lacking is common courtesy, a willingness to share the road with those that are not in one of those high rise 4 wheel drive, a bit of foresight, and the will to sometimes just stop and let someone pass.


So dear Police Officer, are you or your boss or any Police Spokes person ever gonna be quotable in saying That we need to standardize our training requirements for our new drivers? NZ has changed much since the time only sheep ran on the roads and the requirements today are demanding a step back from family based driver training to driver training done by professionals who themselves are subject to tests?

Do I hear crickets? Then your 0 tolarance is just bullshit designed to catch those that drive slow enough for you to stop them and hand them a ticket. I guess you need to earn your wages.

btw. i learned to drive in Germany where we have speedlimits from 5 km walking speed to no speed limit. I did once receive a speeding ticket when coming of a no limit to 80 km entering berlin. I was smiling on the photo that I got send and paid 80 Mark for the 10 km i was over the limit.

[unstuck]

306229...................

Wrong, no mohawk.:motu:

[rastuscat]

so when is the Police advocating for proper driver training?

I am not kidding on this. The one thing that gets me every single time is just how aggressive and rude drivers are in NZ. But if one receives just enough driver training from Mum and Pop Submarine 4 wheel tank driver, that is what I expect. Your car is bigger, faster and betterer, so push on through son or daughter.

What is lacking is common courtesy, a willingness to share the road with those that are not in one of those high rise 4 wheel drive, a bit of foresight, and the will to sometimes just stop and let someone pass.


So dear Police Officer, are you or your boss or any Police Spokes person ever gonna be quotable in saying That we need to standardize our training requirements for our new drivers? NZ has changed much since the time only sheep ran on the roads and the requirements today are demanding a step back from family based driver training to driver training done by professionals who themselves are subject to tests?

Do I hear crickets? Then your 0 tolarance is just bullshit designed to catch those that drive slow enough for you to stop them and hand them a ticket. I guess you need to earn your wages.

btw. i learned to drive in Germany where we have speedlimits from 5 km walking speed to no speed limit. I did once receive a speeding ticket when coming of a no limit to 80 km entering berlin. I was smiling on the photo that I got send and paid 80 Mark for the 10 km i was over the limit.

Cool, so now you want us to be driving instructors. I hear you, but teaching people to drive is the responsibility of the NZTA. ACC contributes by subsidising motorcycle training. We don't do driver training. We're not funded for it, and frankly, we aren't driving instructors.

We do enforcement. Just sayin.

[Swoop]

so when is the Police advocating for proper driver training


Cool, so now you want us to be driving instructors. and frankly, we aren't driving instructors.

We do enforcement. Just sayin.
There were contrails coming off of that one as it passed overhead.

[Taxythingy]

We don't do driver training. We're not funded for it, and frankly, we aren't driving instructors.

We do enforcement. Just sayin.

Quite right and you have to approach it from that angle.

But someone up your donut chain can also say we need to improve through better, more professional instruction. Might cost said individual their weekly donuts, of course. Just sayin. ;)

[Taxythingy]

Might cost said individual their weekly donuts, of course.

To ice that, this is probably the difference between jam-filled and jam-underfoot.

[skippa1]

We do enforcement. Just sayin.
When it suits

plenty of cops send mixed messages or break the rules when it suits them

no consistency

Followed one to Wanganui last week, he cruised at a consistent 118-120kmh for over 20km...all sweet, he knew I was there

I got a ticket for 90 in an 80 two days later

fuckin double standards

[unstuck]

When it suits

plenty of cops send mixed messages or break the rules when it suits them

no consistency

Followed one to Wanganui last week, he cruised at a consistent 118-120kmh for over 20km...all sweet, he knew I was there

I got a ticket for 90 in an 80 two days later

fuckin double standards

Yeah, must say this kinda pisses me off too. But who ya gonna call, ghostbusters? :whistle:

[rastuscat]

Quite right and you have to approach it from that angle.

But someone up your donut chain can also say we need to improve through better, more professional instruction. Might cost said individual their weekly donuts, of course. Just sayin. ;)

Up the food chain they deal with all the other agencies most days. I'm sure they've had their say about driver licencing, road works, lots of stuff we don't get involved in much.

[pete376403]

I recall that some years back the police were against advanced driver training, suggesting that it would encourage drivers to speed or take more risks

[scumdog]

I recall that some years back the police were against advanced driver training, suggesting that it would encourage drivers to speed or take more risks

Can't ever remember that but it's logic right up there with the attitude from some when seat-belts came in (not any cops that I can recall - but who knows?).

'Some' thought drivers would think themselves invincible because the seat-belts would save them, ergo they would then take more risks, drive faster.:facepalm:

[rastuscat]

I recall that some years back the police were against advanced driver training, suggesting that it would encourage drivers to speed or take more risks

Your opinion appears to conflict with the view that we want people to go faster so we can collect more revenue.

So, which way do you want it? You can't have both.

[Taxythingy]

Guess it is one thing to pass concerns up to minister level, but publicly saying it without govt support could get politically dicey.

The German system is not a perfect answer, either. They get their 40-50 hrs training and are then qualified. That isn't very much time behind the wheel before being allowed to tow, drive on the autobahn, navigate between the bazillions of tree-lined roads, deal with frozen cobblestones, trams and many other hazards besides. I'm an advocate of a mix of the two.

[pete376403]

Your opinion appears to conflict with the view that we want people to go faster so we can collect more revenue.

So, which way do you want it? You can't have both.

Might have been this: http://acrs.org.au/files/arsrpe/RS010018.pdf , there is a reference to a NZ study (Wynne-Jones, J.D. & Hurst, P. (1985). The AA Driver Training Evaluation. Traffic Research Report No. 33. Wellington, New Zealand: NZ Ministry of Transport

So maybe not Police so much as Ministry of Transport

[James Deuce]

Might have been this: http://acrs.org.au/files/arsrpe/RS010018.pdf , there is a reference to a NZ study (Wynne-Jones, J.D. & Hurst, P. (1985). The AA Driver Training Evaluation. Traffic Research Report No. 33. Wellington, New Zealand: NZ Ministry of Transport

So maybe not Police so much as Ministry of Transport

I published references in the mid-2000s on KB to documents where Police Senior Traffic Supers were saying the same thing in the mid-2000s both in official documents and in the news media, both print and broadcast.

[skippa1]

Yeah, must say this kinda pisses me off too. But who ya gonna call, ghostbusters? :whistle:
And that's the problem.....fuckin cops 1312

[bogan]

Your opinion appears to conflict with the view that we want people to go faster so we can collect more revenue.

So, which way do you want it? You can't have both.

Nah you don't need people to go faster, just move the tax threshold for what 'fast' is; you know, like what the thread is about.

[rastuscat]

The $30 tickets the lower tolerance will generate will add feck all to the consolidated fund. It costs $26 to process an average ION. The extra speeding tickets will generate feck all once their cost is considered. If it was all about revenue we'd be sitting on corners making non-indicators.

[Taxythingy]

If it was all about revenue we'd be sitting on corners making non-indicators.

Farrk, that'd pay off the national debt if you sent half the NI team to Chur Chur for a week.

[unstuck]

Farrk, that'd pay off the national debt if you sent half the NI team to Chur Chur for a week.

They would only catch cops down here.:msn-wink:

[jellywrestler]

The $30 tickets the lower tolerance will generate will add feck all to the consolidated fund. It costs $26 to process an average ION. The extra speeding tickets will generate feck all once their cost is considered. If it was all about revenue we'd be sitting on corners making non-indicators.

you'd get more people on their cellphones round here...

[Big Dog]

Your opinion appears to conflict with the view that we want people to go faster so we can collect more revenue.

So, which way do you want it? You can't have both.

So raise the speed limit here this is viable and double down on infringements.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[haydes55]

The $30 tickets the lower tolerance will generate will add feck all to the consolidated fund. It costs $26 to process an average ION. The extra speeding tickets will generate feck all once their cost is considered. If it was all about revenue we'd be sitting on corners making non-indicators.


Please do! I'd buy you donuts myself if you were to sit at a round about and ticket every retard who can't move their wrist 10cm.

But that would only reduce low speed crashes, and the cops don't give a shit about stopping crashes, only reducing the effects of crashes.

While you're at it, ticket every spethal needs driver who sits in a right lane without over taking, or who don't pull in to slow vehicle bays (half the time I overtake on the left).

If just a third of cops gave out tickets for the most basic shit that drivers HAVE to do, I bet the crashes would reduce ten fold.

[GrayWolf]

Cool, so now you want us to be driving instructors. I hear you, but teaching people to drive is the responsibility of the NZTA. ACC contributes by subsidising motorcycle training. We don't do driver training. We're not funded for it, and frankly, we aren't driving instructors.

We do enforcement. Just sayin.

Yes and the British Police Traffic Division Motorcyclists (who are paid as law enforcers) Also run training for the public,....

just sayin!

[SPman]

Currently looking for a van, ute had cruise control... van won't. Top of the accessory list is fitting an aftermarket cruise control. Just not worth the risk otherwise... I use it most of the time I'm not in traffic as I don't drive enough to detect small changes...My 2008 Transit has cruise control. Very handy when WAPOL is about.......
Handy hints if you get pinged at a ridiculous(slow) speed (if it's been posted already - tough, I'm not reading 8 pages of crap to find out) - and to those whose response is "do the crime, pay the fine" - go fuck yourselves!


CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE
I challenge every person who gets a speeding ticket under the zero tolerance regime to fight it.
Here's what you do.
When pulled up.
1. Ask to see the officer's certificate indicating he/she is trained to operate radar speed detection equipment.
2. Ask to see all certificates relating to the unit itself and check that all serial numbers are correct.
3. Ask to see the day's test results that should have been done before the officer went on patrol.
If all of those things are in order take the matter to court.
— Ask for proof that the radar units are capable of recording zero tolerance speeds. I believe they are plus/minus 2 or 3 percent.
— Ask how zero tolerance can be enforced when speedometers in cars in NZ are only required to be accurate to within plus/minus 10 percent under the Australian Design Rules (ADRs) that this country has adopted.
Of course, it's futile if you are 15 or 20km.h over the limit, but if there's a shadow of doubt — challenge it in court.

[awa355]

Can't ever remember that but it's logic right up there with the attitude from some when seat-belts came in (not any cops that I can recall - but who knows?).

'Some' thought drivers would think themselves invincible because the seat-belts would save them, ergo they would then take more risks, drive faster.:facepalm:

Had a school mate that said the same, " my passengers can wear the seatbelts, I will just grip the steering wheel and brace myself". He died when his hotted up Hillman Super Minx took on a 4' gumtree. Dont know if Mark had his seatbelt on that night, wouldn't have made much difference I guess.

Same era drivers also said how much faster they could corner when radial tyres started becoming common.

[Kickaha]

If just a third of cops gave out tickets for the most basic shit that drivers HAVE to do, I bet the crashes would reduce ten fold.
How do you know that they aren't?

[scumdog]

CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE
I challenge every person who gets a speeding ticket under the zero tolerance regime to fight it.
Here's what you do.
When pulled up.
1. Ask to see the officer's certificate indicating he/she is trained to operate radar speed detection equipment.
2. Ask to see all certificates relating to the unit itself and check that all serial numbers are correct.
3. Ask to see the day's test results that should have been done before the officer went on patrol.
If all of those things are in order take the matter to court.
— Ask for proof that the radar units are capable of recording zero tolerance speeds. I believe they are plus/minus 2 or 3 percent.
— Ask how zero tolerance can be enforced when speedometers in cars in NZ are only required to be accurate to within plus/minus 10 percent under the Australian Design Rules (ADRs) that this country has adopted.
Of course, it's futile if you are 15 or 20km.h over the limit, but if there's a shadow of doubt — challenge it in court.

Re the above: Alan Dick's a dick if he thinks the cop is going to show them 1.2.&3. at the side of the road (I certainly wouldn't) - as with all the rest he would get it before he went to Court, it's called disclosure.

I'm not faffing around showing every moaning wally that paperwork at the roadside - a fair few wouldn't know what they were looking at from my experience, it might as well be Dunkin'Donuts menu for all the sense it would make to them!:laugh:

[unstuck]

CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE
I challenge every person who gets a speeding ticket under the zero tolerance regime to fight it.
Here's what you do.
When pulled up.
1. Ask to see the officer's certificate indicating he/she is trained to operate radar speed detection equipment.
2. Ask to see all certificates relating to the unit itself and check that all serial numbers are correct.
3. Ask to see the day's test results that should have been done before the officer went on patrol.
If all of those things are in order take the matter to court.
— Ask for proof that the radar units are capable of recording zero tolerance speeds. I believe they are plus/minus 2 or 3 percent.
— Ask how zero tolerance can be enforced when speedometers in cars in NZ are only required to be accurate to within plus/minus 10 percent under the Australian Design Rules (ADRs) that this country has adopted.
Of course, it's futile if you are 15 or 20km.h over the limit, but if there's a shadow of doubt — challenge it in court.

Re the above: Alan Dick's a dick if he thinks the cop is going to show them 1.2.&3. at the side of the road (I certainly wouldn't) - as with all the rest he would get it before he went to Court.

We're not faffing around showing every moaning wally that paperwork at the roadside - most wouldn't know what they were looking at, it might as well be Dunkin'Donuts menu for all the sense it would make to them!:laugh:

Fuck that, you fuckers would tazer me.:yes:

[nzspokes]

How do you know that they aren't?

Go for a drive in any city you like and you can see they dont. Go for a drive/ride on a motorway.

I know of people that just dont bother with regos and wofs because you never see cops these days.

[Kickaha]

Go for a drive in any city you like and you can see they dont. Go for a drive/ride on a motorway. .
So you know exactly what a person pulled over at the side of the road has been stopped for at a glance?

[nzspokes]

So you know exactly what a person pulled over at the side of the road has been stopped for at a glance?

Ive not seen any vehicle pulled over by a police officer in the 5 years I have been commuting to work.

I have seen speed camera vans many times.

[scumdog]

Ive not seen any vehicle pulled over by a police officer in the 5 years I have been commuting to work.

I have seen speed camera vans many times.


So, how many speeding tickets have YOU received in the last 5 years?

(Oh, and 'not seen' does not always mean 'not there':msn-wink:)

[Akzle]

How do you know that they aren't?

because crashes havent reduced tenfold.
Also. Women are still allowed to drive.

[nzspokes]

So, how many speeding tickets have YOU received in the last 5 years?

(Oh, and 'not seen' does not always mean 'not there':msn-wink:)

0.

Only speeding tickets I have had were one in a customers car that did not have a speedo and my guess was wrong and 2 camera tickets from 10 years ago.

To be clear I have no issue with police. At all. Just be nice if they had a presence on the motorway network policing basic road rules. You know, like indicating and not pulling into a lane without looking where Im riding my motorcycle. Just stuff like that.

One thing I have noticed though, the van with the cameras on the roof that reads number plates. It always seems to be in close proximity to a bakery.

[rastuscat]

0.

Only speeding tickets I have had were one in a customers car that did not .

One thing I have noticed though, the van with the cameras on the roof that reads number plates. It always seems to be in close proximity to a bakery.

Dammit, donut shops are selling sundry bakery items are they?

[Paul in NZ]

Hmmm...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/assignments/how-would-you-tackle-speeding-in-nz/10850004/Arrogance-not-speed-causes-crashes

[unstuck]

Hmmm...



Makes sense to me.:niceone:

[R650R]

CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE
I challenge every person who gets a speeding ticket under the zero tolerance regime to fight it.
Here's what you do.
When pulled up.
1. Ask to see the officer's certificate indicating he/she is trained to operate radar speed detection equipment.
2. Ask to see all certificates relating to the unit itself and check that all serial numbers are correct.
3. Ask to see the day's test results that should have been done before the officer went on patrol.
If all of those things are in order take the matter to court.
— Ask for proof that the radar units are capable of recording zero tolerance speeds. I believe they are plus/minus 2 or 3 percent.
— Ask how zero tolerance can be enforced when speedometers in cars in NZ are only required to be accurate to within plus/minus 10 percent under the Australian Design Rules (ADRs) that this country has adopted.
Of course, it's futile if you are 15 or 20km.h over the limit, but if there's a shadow of doubt — challenge it in court.

Re the above: Alan Dick's a dick if he thinks the cop is going to show them 1.2.&3. at the side of the road (I certainly wouldn't) - as with all the rest he would get it before he went to Court, it's called disclosure.

I'm not faffing around showing every moaning wally that paperwork at the roadside - a fair few wouldn't know what they were looking at from my experience, it might as well be Dunkin'Donuts menu for all the sense it would make to them!:laugh:

You can bet he would be the first to rollover belly up and take it. He knows this crap wouldn't work, just a quick article to boost his social media traffic.

Here's what will really happen:
1: Cop says its held at station, please phone x and make an appointment.
2: as per step 1
3: as per step 1 by the time you get to the station the appropriate documents will be available.

In the meantime the cop will be running your full profile through the Wanganui computer and adding tags that your a cop hater, rebel, enemy of the state, potential terrorist etc... All this shit takes time, add another 30mins to your roadside rendezvous. Instead of using his fancy computer he will broadcast all your details across the channel so all the other cops in town know your difficult.

As per court, what employer is going to allow you time off to contest a pedantic $30 ticket which even if you win is going to be a net loss after the time off from work.
You can bet the media will lap it up of course. You'd want to be having an absolute spotless driving record and be loved by the local community lest new witnesses come forward to testify that your less than a 100% safe driver...

[R650R]

Hmmm...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/assignments/how-would-you-tackle-speeding-in-nz/10850004/Arrogance-not-speed-causes-crashes

Please do not encourage the Troll factory that is Stuff Nation. Its an absolute crime against journalism that they let just anyone have their crap published alongside real news.
Stuff Nation is like the bin of letters to the editor that other papers would through in the bin.
I know its hard but just ignore it, there was a setting once to remove it from your version of Stuffs homepage but think its been lost in various browser updates.
Every time you click that shit they sadly think we want to read more of it....

[James Deuce]

It's OK, Stuff don't do real news, so there's no "alongside".

[R650R]

I know of people that just dont bother with regos and wofs because you never see cops these days.

They might very well say that but reality is a different story...

[Paul in NZ]

Please do not encourage the Troll factory that is Stuff Nation. ...

So which troll factory should I encourage? KB????

[GrayWolf]

Dammit, donut shops are selling sundry bakery items are they?

I'm still waiting for a reply re my post on the 'UK Traffic Division M/cylce Police' doing public training, BTW.

just sayin :innocent:

[blue rider]

Cool, so now you want us to be driving instructors. I hear you, but teaching people to drive is the responsibility of the NZTA. ACC contributes by subsidising motorcycle training. We don't do driver training. We're not funded for it, and frankly, we aren't driving instructors.

We do enforcement. Just sayin.

no I don't want you to do driver trainer, I want You to ADVOCATE for formal compulsory Driver Training.

If the Police can scream about speed kills, and lets be 0 tolerance n shit (again, i am such a slow fart, i actually indicate left and let people pass - so it does really not affect me) then the Police can scream about WE NEED BETTER DRIVER TRAINING.


But that is not the point is it? Advocating for better driver training, advocating for better and more varied speed limits, hey that ain't cool, no donut points for that from the state that needs you guys to collect funds.


I am sorry mate, you and your colleagues are there to collect funds, and in the mean time, peeps that can't drive for shit because they only ever learn how to start and stop (and then some) are killing themselves and others. And speed is only one of the factors that kills.

[Reckless]

CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE
I challenge every person who gets a speeding ticket under the zero tolerance regime to fight it.
Here's what you do.
When pulled up.
1. Ask to see the officer's certificate indicating he/she is trained to operate radar speed detection equipment.
2. Ask to see all certificates relating to the unit itself and check that all serial numbers are correct.
3. Ask to see the day's test results that should have been done before the officer went on patrol.
If all of those things are in order take the matter to court.
— Ask for proof that the radar units are capable of recording zero tolerance speeds. I believe they are plus/minus 2 or 3 percent.
— Ask how zero tolerance can be enforced when speedometers in cars in NZ are only required to be accurate to within plus/minus 10 percent under the Australian Design Rules (ADRs) that this country has adopted.
Of course, it's futile if you are 15 or 20km.h over the limit, but if there's a shadow of doubt — challenge it in court.

Re the above: Alan Dick's a dick if he thinks the cop is going to show them 1.2.&3. at the side of the road (I certainly wouldn't) - as with all the rest he would get it before he went to Court, it's called disclosure.

I'm not faffing around showing every moaning wally that paperwork at the roadside - a fair few wouldn't know what they were looking at from my experience, it might as well be Dunkin'Donuts menu for all the sense it would make to them!:laugh:

Are you required to have the documents in the car with you at all times??
And if you are surely you would have to provide the correct information as to how to read them to verify the numbers?
There is also cell phone pics the the alleged offender could take of them.

Again Are you required to have the documents in the car with you at all times??




You can bet he would be the first to rollover belly up and take it. He knows this crap wouldn't work, just a quick article to boost his social media traffic.

Here's what will really happen:
1: Cop says its held at station, please phone x and make an appointment.
2: as per step 1
3: as per step 1 by the time you get to the station the appropriate documents will be available.


Not a lawyer but
Wouldn't the officer refusing to produce the documents at the time give you a defence in court??
If the Docs are not produced at the time of the ticket how can the serial numbers of the unit be checked/matched against the certification documentation at the time of the offence?
If they are not produced the checks cannot be made to certify that particular unit at that particular time? That's Doubt alone isn't it??
Disclosure doesnt prove that unit matches that Certificate that can be matched anytime by the cop after you have riden away? Thats not right?
Wouldn't you get the thing thrown out of court on this alone depending on how cop friendly the Judge is?



Secondly I everyone did this for every ticket it would make the process of issuing a 4k over Speeding ticket a long one.
You could shag about checking serial numbers and having the documentation explained for 1/2 hour or more.
That in itself might be a better first line public protest than taking all tickets to court.
It also might make Failing to indicate, failing to keep left, failing to pull over, failing to give way, using a cellphone an easier target for the cops.
Which in turn may have a bigger impact on the road toll than the present scam??

[Big Dog]

Ive not seen any vehicle pulled over by a police officer in the 5 years I have been commuting to work.

I have seen speed camera vans many times.

Either you don't use the north western or southern motorways or you are not very observant.
I pass at least on marked and one unmarked every day. About twice a week I pass a bike cop. Normally about 5 between them for a day. Speed cameras can make up up to another 3. When I lived in west Auckland it was more like at least one, normally 2-3. With 2-3 camera vans a month.
On the northern motorway I used to pass at least 1 every day but that was 6 years ago. On the south western I have only ever passed camera vans and mufti cars during peak times.





Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[rastuscat]

Yes and the British Police Traffic Division Motorcyclists (who are paid as law enforcers) Also run training for the public,....

just sayin!

Bikewise.

I looked at trying to do it down here, I even communicated with the UK National Co-Ordinator.

We are too much of a minority, motorcycle Popos, for it to get off the ground. Our existence is marginal, and most of our managers see us as an expensive side show. Did you know that there are only 26 current authorized patrol riders in NZ? There are 5 of us in Chur Chur, who share 2 bikes.

We just don't have the resources to do Bikewise down here, or I would have years ago.

[rastuscat]

I'm still waiting for a reply re my post on the 'UK Traffic Division M/cylce Police' doing public training, BTW.

just sayin :innocent:

Ya got it.

BTW, to start doing instruction we would have to have I endorsements from NZTA. We don't have that. I'm one of the 4 trainers in the Popo allowed to train riders, and we don't have I endorsements. The dept won't pay, and I'm not going to set up a private business, as there are enough of those already.

I'd be keen to do Bikewise, but it's just too hard to do when we get so much other stuff shovelled our way.

[Tazz]

When it suits

plenty of cops send mixed messages or break the rules when it suits them

no consistency

Followed one to Wanganui last week, he cruised at a consistent 118-120kmh for over 20km...all sweet, he knew I was there

I got a ticket for 90 in an 80 two days later

fuckin double standards

Yep, similar experience following the plod near Amberley on Sunday night. 105+ then had them u-turn around a left hander with a rise (blind) in the rain too, just to keep me on my toes I'm sure.

I think the only success that will come out of this is burning up some more public goodwill towards the police force.

[TheDemonLord]

Bikewise.

I looked at trying to do it down here, I even communicated with the UK National Co-Ordinator.

We are too much of a minority, motorcycle Popos, for it to get off the ground. Our existence is marginal, and most of our managers see us as an expensive side show. Did you know that there are only 26 current authorized patrol riders in NZ? There are 5 of us in Chur Chur, who share 2 bikes.

We just don't have the resources to do Bikewise down here, or I would have years ago.

That says it all doesn't it - if the NZ police think Bike Police are a side show - it is really telling to what their attitude must be to the NZ Motorcyclist (somewhere between insect and crap on the bottom of your shoe)

[Tazz]

stopping is always optional.

True, but in the past that usually meant dropping the hammer rather than taunting.

[willytheekid]

....and I'm not going to set up a private business.

DAMNIT!...I would have sign up straight away :yes:
...then I could learn how the hell you manage to get that big Churman bitch through traffic so damn quickly! :killingme (safely! I might add...but still damn impressive the couple o times Ive "tried" to sneakily follow you;))



ps...when do you get the new VFR's?...looking forward to your impressions compared to the Churman rides

[rastuscat]

DAMNIT!...I would have sign up straight away :yes:
...then I could learn how the hell you manage to get that big Churman bitch through traffic so damn quickly! :killingme (safely! I might add...but still damn impressive the couple o times Ive "tried" to sneakily follow you;))



ps...when do you get the new VFR's?...looking forward to your impressions compared to the Churman rides

ST1300's Wheelie. Due in April. The VFRs come from Honda Europe, and the STs are being supplied by Honda Asia-Pacific. Our bad luck, VFRs would have been cool.

I'm on the old bike today, 147000 on the clock. It still grunts and groans like the best of them.

[GrayWolf]

Ya got it.

BTW, to start doing instruction we would have to have I endorsements from NZTA. We don't have that. I'm one of the 4 trainers in the Popo allowed to train riders, and we don't have I endorsements. The dept won't pay, and I'm not going to set up a private business, as there are enough of those already.

I'd be keen to do Bikewise, but it's just too hard to do when we get so much other stuff shovelled our way.

Ok thanks Rastus, that does clear things up as to why.... :bleh:
I do have to wonder though, if the UK Traffic Division have to have a 'civilian endorsement' to teach the public. I know there is a difference between the way the two forces run their MC Popo, as you'll be very aware the UK T Div' have to be highly trained in 'pursuit' to be TD which is a separate Div to the normal Popo.
Having done advanced riding in the UK, and the instructor was a TD Popo, I never asked if he had to have a special endorsement. To me it seems a bit 'daft' as if the NZ training is 'on par' to the UK TD, then surely the Popo riders will be skilled enough to teach IAM training, or as you say 'Bikewise'.

It's a damn shame actually, because Bikewise seems to have had the added benefit of improving relations between riders and Popo. (Bet you'd LOVE a stealth 'busa, like they use over there) :rolleyes:

[Paul in NZ]

[QUOTE=rastuscat;1130798922]Bikewise.

Our existence is marginal, and most of our managers see us as an expensive side show. QUOTE]

The bikes are very useful when overseas bigwigs arrive and you lot block all the traffic for the motorcades...

[rastuscat]

Ok thanks Rastus, that does clear things up as to why.... :bleh:
I do have to wonder though, if the UK Traffic Division have to have a 'civilian endorsement' to teach the public. I know there is a difference between the way the two forces run their MC Popo, as you'll be very aware the UK T Div' have to be highly trained in 'pursuit' to be TD which is a separate Div to the normal Popo.
Having done advanced riding in the UK, and the instructor was a TD Popo, I never asked if he had to have a special endorsement. To me it seems a bit 'daft' as if the NZ training is 'on par' to the UK TD, then surely the Popo riders will be skilled enough to teach IAM training, or as you say 'Bikewise'.

It's a damn shame actually, because Bikewise seems to have had the added benefit of improving relations between riders and Popo. (Bet you'd LOVE a stealth 'busa, like they use over there) :rolleyes:

My bad, it's Bikesafe, not Bikewise.

The patrol rider training over there is streets ahead of ours. Here we focus on low speed skills, and road riding. Over there they focus on high speed response, something the law doesn't allow us to do here.

To clarify, over there they are allowed to exceed the speed limit for the purpose of training. Here we can't. The only way to learn how to ride at high speed with lights and siren on is to ride at high speed with lights and siren on, something we aren't allowed to do here.

[unstuck]

(Bet you'd LOVE a stealth 'busa, like they use over there) :rolleyes:

Shhhh, don't give the fuckers ideas.:weird:

[rastuscat]

[QUOTE=rastuscat;1130798922]Bikewise.

Our existence is marginal, and most of our managers see us as an expensive side show. QUOTE]

The bikes are very useful when overseas bigwigs arrive and you lot block all the traffic for the motorcades...

I just did a stint on motorcades in Orkers. Cool fun that. Saves us having to roster tons of beat cops to intersections where we can do any motorcade with 6 patrol bikes.

[willytheekid]

ST1300's Wheelie. Due in April. The VFRs come from Honda Europe, and the STs are being supplied by Honda Asia-Pacific. Our bad luck, VFRs would have been cool.

I'm on the old bike today, 147000 on the clock. It still grunts and groans like the best of them.

Bugger!:weep: was realy looking forward to that ride review*...still, the ST1300's are meant to be a good bike :yes: (Still fat tho:lol:)

Only 147000?...so the Big Churmans almost run in eh!:laugh: (130 on the little VFR...stock clutch is "nearly" ready to be replaced...so I bought a spare motor just in case!:niceone:)



*Will just have to lend ya mine eh (Once the headset bearings get replaced again!:facepalm:...its the roads!...Honest:innocent::o)


-Stay safe Ras...its nice to just talk about bikes sometimes :D

[Gremlin]

Having done advanced riding in the UK, and the instructor was a TD Popo, I never asked if he had to have a special endorsement. To me it seems a bit 'daft' as if the NZ training is 'on par' to the UK TD, then surely the Popo riders will be skilled enough to teach IAM training, or as you say 'Bikewise'.

It's a damn shame actually, because Bikewise seems to have had the added benefit of improving relations between riders and Popo. (Bet you'd LOVE a stealth 'busa, like they use over there) :rolleyes:
It certainly does seem to be well received in the UK, good PR etc. As the cat says though, there isn't nearly the same ratio of bike cops to people as there is in the UK, plus the resources. Seems the NZ heads let the accountants rule, and bikes are just as expensive (or more) than a car. A car carries 2 officers (or up to 4), doesn't require additional specific training, the increased risk to your staff, plus carries the baddies. They gotta live sad lives if you see everything like that, but there you go.

In IAM NZ, we are not instructors (there are a few that run riding schools, so as such, are NZTA I endorsed instructors) so we are not instructing or teaching. The associate remains in control of their own ride, and if they feel something is not safe, then they shouldn't do it. It is more of a mentoring role, IAM is a voluntary charity, so it's more, if you want to ride in this way, which has international standards, then by all means, participate. On the flip side, with CBTA coming into effect, there have been more driving instructors becoming interested, as the requirements for Class 6 I were increased I think (not sure on specifics). We do also have the odd bike cop involved as well, and other members of police that own bikes (but not bike cops).

[roogazza]

Well I don’t know about this anymore…

I suspect most people wouldn’t have so much have an issue with the removal of a tolerance if it had not come at the tail end of a bunch of other ‘initiative’s’ where the main result is the majority suffering because of the actions of a few. 60kph speed limits around Pauatahanui Inlet because some boy racer plonkers parked their car upside down in the middle of the inlet and someone died? What about the thousands who used the road and didn’t do anything stupid?

As a motorcyclist – I have on occasion gone too fast on the Queens highway.. Its fun and the feeling of a large bike peeling away is utterly magic…. And – I’m neither dead or in prison for killing anyone else… Yet the statistics indicate that speed and the death rate are linked… But how can this be possible??? It seems inconceivable that a self confessed speeder who has ridden bikes that long could possibly have survived…

No one wants anyone to die in a road accident… It’s a horrible and expensive death… But at some point surely we have to say that if we want the freedom of having our own cars and bikes then some kind of road toll is inevitable… It’s a matter of balancing personal freedoms against the need to reduce that figure…

Already more people die every year from Influenza?

I just think we are at that point where we are pretty well over hearing about this and loosing what little fun is left in life because despite what they say it IS possible to have fun without killing anyone…

Good post Paul , pretty much how I would have written that up.
A clown dies on a corner and someone (don't know who it is?) jumps on it thinks ,well he doesn't think ! because,is he going to do that with every event ?
Have to use it again sorry.
306258

[rastuscat]

It certainly does seem to be well received in the UK, good PR etc. As the cat says though, there isn't nearly the same ratio of bike cops to people as there is in the UK, plus the resources. Seems the NZ heads let the accountants rule, and bikes are just as expensive (or more) than a car. A car carries 2 officers (or up to 4), doesn't require additional specific training, the increased risk to your staff, plus carries the baddies. They gotta live sad lives if you see everything like that, but there you go.

Feeling marginalized.

Actually, feeling bloody lucky to have manipulated my bosses to let me ride a bike, and focus on bike safety stuff. As much as I can, wearing the uniform I do.

[R650R]

Not a lawyer but
Wouldn't the officer refusing to produce the documents at the time give you a defence in court??
If the Docs are not produced at the time of the ticket how can the serial numbers of the unit be checked/matched against the certification documentation at the time of the offence?
If they are not produced the checks cannot be made to certify that particular unit at that particular time? That's Doubt alone isn't it??
Disclosure doesnt prove that unit matches that Certificate that can be matched anytime by the cop after you have riden away? Thats not right?
Wouldn't you get the thing thrown out of court on this alone depending on how cop friendly the Judge is?


An officer not providing documents would not be any defence for your offending.
Most people wouldn't know the proper words to use either, no one has to hand over shit if the word Forthwith isn't in the sentence which means immediately and without delay.

In any case the judge is going to ask the cop how many other people has he tickted or warned with the same speed device. The next question is going to be how many of them contested the accuracy....
We already had a case like this when that guy in wellington questioned the accuracy of one of the pole cameras. He lost as no significant deviation could be proved.
The cop is earning money still while your blabbing about your rights at the roadside while your making yourself later for work or wasting your recreational time and getting a ticket still.
Cops don't really care what happens between donut breaks while the meter is running on their paychecks....

[Scuba_Steve]

An officer not providing documents would not be any defence for your offending.
Most people wouldn't know the proper words to use either, no one has to hand over shit if the word Forthwith isn't in the sentence which means immediately and without delay.

In any case the judge is going to ask the cop how many other people has he tickted or warned with the same speed device. The next question is going to be how many of them contested the accuracy....
We already had a case like this when that guy in wellington questioned the accuracy of one of the pole cameras. He lost as no significant deviation could be proved.
The cop is earning money still while your blabbing about your rights at the roadside while your making yourself later for work or wasting your recreational time and getting a ticket still.
Cops don't really care what happens between donut breaks while the meter is running on their paychecks....

But hey if it helps prevent another NZer getting scammed & extorted it's still a win in my books... "safer communities together"

Also hand over your money & vodka... forthwith :bleh:

[blue rider]

Police had not determined at which speed the car travelled


A 14-year-old exchange student had just stepped off a school bus when he was hit by a car and flung 15 metres.

The teen remains in a critical condition in Christchurch Hospital after he was struck on State Highway 1, south of Christchurch, about 3.55pm yesterday.
Police said the car's speed had not yet been determined, but was part of their inquiry.

The crash was on Main South Rd, between Curraghs Rd and Weedons Ross Rd, near Rolleston.
It is a 100kmh zone. Drivers must travel 20kmh when passing a parked school bus.

I would really like to point out the fact that there is a bus stop on a highway in a hundred kilometer an hour zone, and a car or a truck or a bike or a bicycle will slow down when they see a parked school bus.

Yea, right Tui.

this is what I am talking about. The fact that there are speed limits and then there are speed limits and then there is only WTF left.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/63736478/Teen-steps-off-school-bus-hit-by-car

[mossy1200]

If we wanted to prevent premature deaths we would ban fatty foods, alcohol, smokes and fun. Live long and be bored then soak up massive funds while on super crippling the country.
Its a lot wiser to tax the good stuff in the name of safety. Could be worse. At least we can hold on to our 1kph tolerance for a while.

[Murray]

Dammit, donut shops are selling sundry bakery items are they?


ST1300's Wheelie. Due in April. The VFRs come from Honda Europe, and the STs are being supplied by Honda Asia-Pacific. Our bad luck, VFRs would have been cool.

I'm on the old bike today, 147000 on the clock. It still grunts and groans like the best of them.

Cant be on the old bike 2 much 7 posts today on this thread alone - plus scumbag at 6.55. amazing how much time coppas have to spend time on internet when topics about revenue gathering. Isnt roogazza a coppa as well??

[scumdog]

Cant be on the old bike 2 much 7 posts today on this thread alone - plus scumbag at 6.55. amazing how much time coppas have to spend time on internet when topics about revenue gather. Isnt roogazza a coppa as well??

You seem to have the time to spare tracking cops posts, can't be doing much riding yourself????:lol:

[Murray]

You seem to have the time to spare tracking cops posts, can't be doing much riding yourself????:lol:

Nah I was working all day!! Back again!!

[mossy1200]

Shouldn't get new bikes. The old ones will be fast enough even with poor compression and 30/40 oil for a high speed 101kph pursuit.

A new breed of bike is introduced. It not the café racer it the cop racer. Anything over 250cc and made after 1976 with flashing lights is fast enough to enforce the new tax laws.

[R650R]

Police had not determined at which speed the car travelled



I would really like to point out the fact that there is a bus stop on a highway in a hundred kilometer an hour zone, and a car or a truck or a bike or a bicycle will slow down when they see a parked school bus.

Yea, right Tui.

this is what I am talking about. The fact that there are speed limits and then there are speed limits and then there is only WTF left.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/63736478/Teen-steps-off-school-bus-hit-by-car

I slow down in truck, car and bike. It's amazing the people that are either just ignorant of this law or not aware of the gauranteed jail term if you ran over a kid at high speed.
A lot of people don't, the old it won't happen to me syndrome, sadly some find out the hard way.
Yes there are issues with where some of these buses stop, but for the sake of seconds could you live with the consequences?

[R650R]

Cant be on the old bike 2 much 7 posts today on this thread alone - plus scumbag at 6.55. amazing how much time coppas have to spend time on internet when topics about revenue gathering. Isnt roogazza a coppa as well??

They have taxpayer/speeder funded iPads to play on now :)

[Madness]

To protect and surf.

[Gremlin]

Feeling marginalized.
Don't worry, it balances out. You're front and centre when a big wig from another country comes to visit :clap:

[nzspokes]

It certainly does seem to be well received in the UK, good PR etc. As the cat says though, there isn't nearly the same ratio of bike cops to people as there is in the UK, plus the resources. Seems the NZ heads let the accountants rule, and bikes are just as expensive (or more) than a car. A car carries 2 officers (or up to 4), doesn't require additional specific training, the increased risk to your staff, plus carries the baddies. They gotta live sad lives if you see everything like that, but there you go.

In IAM NZ, we are not instructors (there are a few that run riding schools, so as such, are NZTA I endorsed instructors) so we are not instructing or teaching. The associate remains in control of their own ride, and if they feel something is not safe, then they shouldn't do it. It is more of a mentoring role, IAM is a voluntary charity, so it's more, if you want to ride in this way, which has international standards, then by all means, participate. On the flip side, with CBTA coming into effect, there have been more driving instructors becoming interested, as the requirements for Class 6 I were increased I think (not sure on specifics). We do also have the odd bike cop involved as well, and other members of police that own bikes (but not bike cops).

Ive looked into getting an I endorsement and may do so next year. Pretty straight forward process. Bit of study and some assignments.

[FJRider]

I would really like to point out the fact that there is a bus stop on a highway in a hundred kilometer an hour zone, and a car or a truck or a bike or a bicycle will slow down when they see a parked school bus.

Yea, right Tui.

this is what I am talking about. The fact that there are speed limits and then there are speed limits and then there is only WTF left.



A Bus stop .. ????


A School bus is dropping off a passenger at his/her stop. (Read OWN GATE) Must this student live in a slower speed zone (to suit your expectations .. ???) .. to get dropped of from school at at his/her own home gate ... ???

The speed limit while driving past a school bus (picking up or dropping off passengers) is 20 km/hr. Pass such at 60 km/hr (regardless of the speed zone you are in) .... you exceed the "Posted" speed limit by 40 km/hr. Should you get caught by Plod doing so ... an automatic 28 days loss of License. With at least a 3 month loss of License AFTER your/their court case.

Such is legislation ... get over it ...

[nzspokes]

Either you don't use the north western or southern motorways or you are not very observant.

Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

My observation is fine. To the point on my 245ks worth of travels today around the motorway system, rural and suburban roads I observed no Police.

[FJRider]

.. I observed no Police.

That only means YOU saw NO Police ... NOT ... that it means ... there were NO Police on the route you took.

[jellywrestler]

Good post Paul , pretty much how I would have written that up.
A clown dies on a corner and someone (don't know who it is?) jumps on it thinks ,well he doesn't think ! because,is he going to do that with every event ?
Have to use it again sorry.
306258

yip and they weren't doing the existing speed limit either...

[nzspokes]

That only means YOU saw NO Police ... NOT ... that it means ... there were NO Police on the route you took.

Thanks Captain Obvious.

[FJRider]

My observation is fine. To the point on my 245ks worth of travels today around the motorway system, rural and suburban roads I observed no Police.

In the course of my work ... I often travel 300 km's per day and see NO (marked) police cars.

YOUR point is ... ???

[nzspokes]

I live in a City with actual people.

[Gremlin]

Well I heard from a tech tonight that one of his mates had been pulled up 3 times yesterday (twice by the same cop) and given tickets for exceeding the limit by 2, 2, 3 kph.

As I suggested, he's likely failing the attitude test, but it seems it's being enforced...

[scumdog]

Well I heard from a tech tonight that one of his mates had been pulled up 3 times yesterday (twice by the same cop) and given tickets for exceeding the limit by 2, 2, 3 kph.

As I suggested, he's likely failing the attitude test, but it seems it's being enforced...

He must love the pain...;)

[roogazza]

Cant be on the old bike 2 much 7 posts today on this thread alone - plus scumbag at 6.55. amazing how much time coppas have to spend time on internet when topics about revenue gathering. Isnt roogazza a coppa as well??

Far too old and no ticket books in my day. lol.
I would have been a bit of a hypocrite to do that stuff.

[James Deuce]

Well I heard from a tech tonight that one of his mates had been pulled up 3 times yesterday (twice by the same cop) and given tickets for exceeding the limit by 2, 2, 3 kph.

As I suggested, he's likely failing the attitude test, but it seems it's being enforced...

A. It's never a direct quote, as in, "I got three tickets in one day for a miniscule amount over the limit", it's always a mate of a mate, and
B. Has anyone noticed how dumb mates of mates are?

[Murray]

Far too old and no ticket books in my day. lol.
I would have been a bit of a hypocrite to do that stuff.

My humblest apologies for abusing you like that.

[BlackSheepLogic]

B. Has anyone noticed how dumb mates of mates are?

No, but they do seem to have really bad luck and are accident prone (just like prior owners).

[rastuscat]

A. It's never a direct quote, as in, "I got three tickets in one day for a miniscule amount over the limit", it's always a mate of a mate, and
B. Has anyone noticed how dumb mates of mates are?

When speed cams came in the tolerance was the 85th percentile, or 10 kmh, whichever was highest. So on a road where the 85th percentile was 65, that's what the camera was set at. Waipuna Rd near the bridge was one with a trigger speed of 67.

Anyway, the lowest trigger speed was 11 over.

But I kept being told "my mate got a ticket for 51 in a 50". My response was always to tell them to have their mate produce the ticket to means Id have it cancelled.

Funny, nobody ever produced one.

Coz people love to exaggerate to make a point, regardless of how tosh it is.

Freuds theory of self esteem explains it, but it's been a fact of the job since time immemorial.

Just sayin. If anyone gets a ticket below the stated tolerance, write in. Or shut up, coz it doesn't exist.

[willytheekid]

Just sayin. If anyone gets a ticket below the stated tolerance, write in. Or shut up, coz it doesn't exist.

...is it still possible to get a ticket below the new tolerance? :confused:


;)

[blue rider]

A Bus stop .. ????


A School bus is dropping off a passenger at his/her stop. (Read OWN GATE) Must this student live in a slower speed zone (to suit your expectations .. ???) .. to get dropped of from school at at his/her own home gate ... ???

The speed limit while driving past a school bus (picking up or dropping off passengers) is 20 km/hr. Pass such at 60 km/hr (regardless of the speed zone you are in) .... you exceed the "Posted" speed limit by 40 km/hr. Should you get caught by Plod doing so ... an automatic 28 days loss of License. With at least a 3 month loss of License AFTER your/their court case.

Such is legislation ... get over it ...

Look, i did not write the story, it was clearly in the article that the bus stop is in a hundert km zone. I would assume country side, and the gate would be on the side of the road, as there are many like this in rural areas.

What I find astounding is that there are drivers in NZ that do not realise that they have to slow down (not that they would if they could....competitive driving and all that), every now and then.

Formal training, inclusive the YOU HAVE TO SLOW DOWN when seeing a bus stopped and only overtake if it is safe to do, now that would help. Formal Training, that tells peeps what happens when not driving according to the law might help peeps be more observant of the law.

I have no issues with the legislation, i have an issue with people that don't know the legislation, because the "Driving Instructors"did not teach them the legislation.
You see, I was tought that any stationary vehicle should be passed carefully, no matter where the fuck the vehicle is stationary, as one might not see a person on the road, or there might be an accident, or there might be a flying saucer lying around. And I got to follow a bus for about 40 minutes just for fun to drive home the "Slow down to 20" and only overtake if it is save. (my driving instructor liked getting us into rush hour and the likes - he thought it would make for better drivers. Everyone can drive fast, not everyone can drive safe)

But I get it. Nothing can be done about it. Nothing, nada, zilch. Its just some kids that get hurt. nothing can be done. Its just some toddlers that get run over, nothing can be done. Its just some family that looses someone, nothing can be done.

Lets write tickets for 1.5 km over the limit, that can be done.

Peeps in NZ die, because people can't drive, can't control their speed, can't/won't slow down to let someone enter or exit a road, race down the drive way in reverse because they are late for work, don't slow down for a stopped bus because the indicated Speed limit is a hundred and I will by god drive a hundred.
People in NZ die on the roads because People don't have to learn how to drive, don't have to learn how to behave in traffic, don't have to learn the legislation. People in NZ die because as long as one passes a 35 min assessment (or less or more depending on personal fortitude of the Tester) they get a driver license and they are good to go.

[scumdog]

Time they brought in US-type rules.

Orange flashing lights on the roof of the school-bus - if they're flashing you don't pass. (OK, maybe in NZ slow down to the 20kph)

[scumdog]

But I kept being told "my mate got a ticket for 51 in a 50". My response was always to tell them to have their mate produce the ticket to means Id have it cancelled.

Funny, nobody ever produced one.

Coz people love to exaggerate to make a point, regardless of how tosh it is.

Freuds theory of self esteem explains it, but it's been a fact of the job since time immemorial.

Just sayin. If anyone gets a ticket below the stated tolerance, write in. Or shut up, coz it doesn't exist.

Duplicates my experiences and thoughts.:niceone:

[GrayWolf]

Time they brought in US-type rules.

Orange flashing lights on the roof of the school-bus - if they're flashing you don't pass. (OK, maybe in NZ slow down to the 20kph)

Surely the words SCHOOL BUS emblazoned on it (when stopped) are a good indicator you need to 'slow down' to the correct speed???
And I believe there are 'school zone' roadsigns??

Oh shit, I just agreed with scummy and the cat.....

as you were!


PS: Scummy and the Cat..... do I detect a good 'Cop show title' in the offing? :lol:

[rastuscat]

...is it still possible to get a ticket below the new tolerance? :confused:


;)

Yes. Coz the limit is the limit. 51 is over the limit. But the policy is tickets at 55.

[Tazz]

Yes. Coz the limit is the limit. 51 is over the limit. But the policy is tickets at 55.

And that must be because nothing is accurate enough to read or tell you that exact limit 100% correctly all the time.
Also we weren't living in a country where enforcement policy (correct wording?) was so pathetic it felt the need to target crap like this, but that's obviously changing also.

[willytheekid]

Yes. Coz the limit is the limit. 51 is over the limit. But the policy is tickets at 55.

Ahhh...the TOLERANCE is 1k over mate, so "If anyone gets a ticket below the stated tolerance"...wouldn't they would be doing the legal speed limit? :confused:

...time for a coffee and a donut!!:eek: (My shout!...just add it on to my future "travelled at legal speed limit" ticket :laugh:)


ps...I is just messing wiv ya Ras :bleh::love::laugh: (I know, I know..."shuddup wheelie")

[blue rider]

Time they brought in US-type rules.

Orange flashing lights on the roof of the school-bus - if they're flashing you don't pass. (OK, maybe in NZ slow down to the 20kph)

Formal Driver Training. You don't like it?

why?

would it not better to educate peeps and assure they know how to handle not only their beers but also their vehicles?

oh...you don't like educated peeps?

[James Deuce]

Maybe the limit passing a school bus should be set at 30 like road works which would be more easy to remember. I actually did think it was 30. Often roadworks signs will also say be prepared to stop and the same rule could apply to passing school buses.

It's currently 20 km/hr when passing a school bus with passengers entering or exiting, on either side of the road. SO traffic in both directions has to slow to 20 km/hr. It's not hard. Just do it. You surely don't need signs to remind you that kids are unpredictable and worth something and you should avoid killing them at all costs?

Oh, sorry, my mistake, this is NZ where children are property and physical and emotional punching bags.

[scumdog]

Formal Driver Training. You don't like it?

why?

would it not better to educate peeps and assure they know how to handle not only their beers but also their vehicles?

oh...you don't like educated peeps?

I'd LOVE for people to be educated, I'd LOVE not having to dish out tickets...

So c'mon peeps, take some ownership of the issue and get soem proper driver training and education...

Oh wait, this IS the 21st century where the motto is "It's 'somebody elses' fault" so I guess 'somebody else' should MAKE them attend driver school.;)

[Big Dog]

Maybe make compulsory drivers ed for those who get 40 demerits in 24 months?

Kind of like the US have in some states that you can be summonsed to traffic school.

Then those who are right about thinking they are good drivers don't need to be bothered. Those who get tickets do get educated?

Lost your license? Attend compulsory training after your hiatus or you can't have it back.


I know a fair few good drivers or riders who never had formal training. Most could be better with some. Others there is a bit of a diminishing return.

Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

Well I heard from a tech tonight that one of his mates had been pulled up 3 times yesterday (twice by the same cop) and given tickets for exceeding the limit by 2, 2, 3 kph.

As I suggested, he's likely failing the attitude test, but it seems it's being enforced...

Fast learner.

Almost as fast as a mate in the 90s got pulled for 180ish. Got ticket told to take bike home cop would be by to collect his license in an hour. Same cop got him again half an hour later for a higher speed...


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Big Dog]

When speed cams came in the tolerance was the 85th percentile, or 10 kmh, whichever was highest. So on a road where the 85th percentile was 65, that's what the camera was set at. Waipuna Rd near the bridge was one with a trigger speed of 67.

Anyway, the lowest trigger speed was 11 over.

But I kept being told "my mate got a ticket for 51 in a 50". My response was always to tell them to have their mate produce the ticket to means Id have it cancelled.

Funny, nobody ever produced one.

Coz people love to exaggerate to make a point, regardless of how tosh it is.

Freuds theory of self esteem explains it, but it's been a fact of the job since time immemorial.

Just sayin. If anyone gets a ticket below the stated tolerance, write in. Or shut up, coz it doesn't exist.

Before I learned my lesson I had several 61 in a 50.
One while pacing a bike cop. The others just youthful exuberance.

These days I am late for everything. But no speeding tickets.

Like a fine whiskey I am mellowing with age.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[blue rider]

I'd LOVE for people to be educated, I'd LOVE not having to dish out tickets...

So c'mon peeps, take some ownership of the issue and get soem proper driver training and education...

Oh wait, this IS the 21st century where the motto is "It's 'somebody elses' fault" so I guess 'somebody else' should MAKE them attend driver school.;)


Yes, how about the Police, which is at the forefront enforcing our laws would advocate and lobbly our Lawmakers to make driving lessons compulsory so as
to prevent needless death on the Road.

Oh ....yeah....hot air...aye Scumdog, thats all you've got. lots n lots of hot air.

[scumdog]

Yes, how about the Police, which is at the forefront enforcing our laws would advocate and lobbly our Lawmakers to make driving lessons compulsory so as
to prevent needless death on the Road.

Oh ....yeah....hot air...aye Scumdog, thats all you've got. lots n lots of hot air.

So first you want 'somebody else' to do the lobbying (typical 21st century syndrome sufferer):killingme

Then you bag me.


'Oh yuh shore know how to flattah a guy mistah...':pinch:

[Big Dog]

So first you want 'somebody else' to do the lobbying (typical 21st century syndrome sufferer):killingme

Then you bag me.


'Oh yuh shore know how to flattah a guy mistah...':pinch:

He wants you to do the course for him too.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[haydes55]

Surely the words SCHOOL BUS emblazoned on it (when stopped) are a good indicator you need to 'slow down' to the correct speed???

And I believe there are 'school zone' roadsigns??



Oh shit, I just agreed with scummy and the cat.....



as you were!





PS: Scummy and the Cat..... do I detect a good 'Cop show title' in the offing? :lol:


I was following a white van one day. It pulled over a few hundred meters ahead, it had a rectangle yellow sign with a Maori word written on it. So I went past at 100km/h... Must have been a local marae courtesy bus or something. I saw a teenager getting out as I drove past......

I remembered the Maori word (forgot it now) later that night and googled it.... Turns out it's the Maori word for school........ I have nothing against people who want to keep Maori language alive.... But there is a time and place for it.... When 90% of the population can't read it, is it safe to use it to protect children.


On a different note. In the past 2 days I have driven past police at 80km/h in a temporary 50 zone, 90 in an 80 zone and 80 in a 70 zone..... Didn't even get a disco light flashing.

[nzspokes]

I saw a Police car today!

Wow.

I did think a clean wouldnt kill it though.

[R650R]

I was following a white van one day. It pulled over a few hundred meters ahead, it had a rectangle yellow sign with a Maori word written on it. So I went past at 100km/h... Must have been a local marae courtesy bus or something. I saw a teenager getting out as I drove past......

I remembered the Maori word (forgot it now) later that night and googled it.... Turns out it's the Maori word for school........ I have nothing against people who want to keep Maori language alive.... But there is a time and place for it.... When 90% of the population can't read it, is it safe to use it to protect children.


On a different note. In the past 2 days I have driven past police at 80km/h in a temporary 50 zone, 90 in an 80 zone and 80 in a 70 zone..... Didn't even get a disco light flashing.

This came up awhile ago in trucking forum too... given the time of day and location you could be expected to work it for yourself common sense wise. It wouldn't be a completely free get of jail card...

[unstuck]

I saw a Police car today!

Wow.

I did think a clean wouldnt kill it though.

I passed one parked at the bottom of the jollies pass this morning doing 100kmh in the range rover towing a trailer with a couple of bikes on, he never even looked up.
Must have been having a munch on donuts(mmmm).
Ooops, but there wasn't much traffic around though, so it was safe..:o

[caspernz]

I was following a white van one day. It pulled over a few hundred meters ahead, it had a rectangle yellow sign with a Maori word written on it. So I went past at 100km/h... Must have been a local marae courtesy bus or something. I saw a teenager getting out as I drove past......

I remembered the Maori word (forgot it now) later that night and googled it.... Turns out it's the Maori word for school........ I have nothing against people who want to keep Maori language alive.... But there is a time and place for it.... When 90% of the population can't read it, is it safe to use it to protect children.


On a different note. In the past 2 days I have driven past police at 80km/h in a temporary 50 zone, 90 in an 80 zone and 80 in a 70 zone..... Didn't even get a disco light flashing.

Yes I find the whole crappy van with a yellow KURA sign on it mighty ambigious, and while I can work it out for myself, the road code I recall wasn't equipped with this version of school bus sign. Pity the tourists...:facepalm:

And before anyone cries out racist, I'm married to a Maori gal who finds it even more annoying than me :confused:

[unstuck]

If schools want to put the name of their school bus in another language it is their silly fault and not the motorists for going past at 100km/hr. With so many different nationalities in NZ having their own schools such a practise needs to be outlawed sooner rather than later.

So not only are you a danger on the road, you are a racist also. Win win aye champ.:innocent:

[Madness]

I range rover

:facepalm:

[unstuck]

:facepalm:

That all ya got.:laugh::laugh:

[oneofsix]

Yes I find the whole crappy van with a yellow KURA sign on it mighty ambigious, and while I can work it out for myself, the road code I recall wasn't equipped with this version of school bus sign. Pity the tourists...:facepalm:

And before anyone cries out racist, I'm married to a Maori gal who finds it even more annoying than me :confused:


If schools want to put the name of their school bus in another language it is their silly fault and not the motorists for going past at 100km/hr. With so many different nationalities in NZ having their own schools such a practise needs to be outlawed sooner rather than later.

what are you two arguing about? You both agree that unless it says School Bus the law doesn't apply. Whilst talking about NZ official languages what about if the deaf schools used sign language, that would be, umm lets see ... School Bus I guess :lol:

[haydes55]

So not only are you a danger on the road, you are a racist also. Win win aye champ.:innocent:


The term racism is thrown around by people like yourself, for stupid reasons, such as this, that aren't actually racist...... Which devalues the term racism, which is an insult to the victims of actual racism. Similar to how girls who lie about being raped actually harm victims of actual rape.

It's not racist that we can't speak Maori I don't know anyone who can, I've never been taught anything further than basic Maori in school.....

Congratulations cassina, I'm actually on your side for this one.

[Flip]

So first you want 'somebody else' to do the lobbying (typical 21st century syndrome sufferer):killingme

Then you bag me.


'Oh yuh shore know how to flattah a guy mistah...':pinch:

Carefull or he will go "international" on you.

[skippa1]

306331
.................

[rastuscat]

So you think everyone who does not know every language spoken in NZ is a racist. What a champ you are!!

Je ne suis pas raciste. Je suis un muncher de beigne .

https://www.google.co.nz/search?sugexp=chrome,mod=11&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=google+translate#safe=off&q=google+translate

[scumdog]

Carefull or he will go "international" on you.

uh, it's a 'she'.

And she's welcome to have a go.:lol::rofl:

(been a while since that line's been used on KB)

[unstuck]

The term racism is thrown around by people like yourself, for stupid reasons, such as this, that aren't actually racist...... Which devalues the term racism, which is an insult to the victims of actual racism. Similar to how girls who lie about being raped actually harm victims of actual rape.

It's not racist that we can't speak Maori I don't know anyone who can, I've never been taught anything further than basic Maori in school.....

Congratulations cassina, I'm actually on your side for this one.

But your a wanker too, so I don't care.:msn-wink:

[roogazza]

Je ne suis pas raciste. Je suis un muncher de beigne .

[URL="https://www.google.co.nz/search
Handy that google translate huh ? I Chat back and forth with my GP mates,German,Italian and French,
A modern wonder for an old fart like me and just amazing you can do that.

[R650R]

So not only are you a danger on the road, you are a racist also. Win win aye champ.:innocent:

Oh and I bet your a real multicultural society welcoming to all comers in Gore.... lol....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKQY_32T7AU

[R650R]

It's not racist that we can't speak Maori I don't know anyone who can, I've never been taught anything further than basic Maori in school.....


When I came back to NZ, feeling all patriotic and all and working with a lot of Maoris I thought it would be a good idea to learn.
All the lets speak Te Reo is all driven by the PC crowd in govt depts... When you actually try to Korero with "our people" about learning it seems its their language and they don't like sharing it, idea went down like Te Kootis last stand....
Have a school teacher friend from a poor community who taught me couple words but that's about it...

[Akzle]

http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad10/Dudeman343/funny-picture-speed-limit-enforced-by-aircraft-apache-attack-helicopter.jpg .

oh fuck you jantard. fuck you.

[unstuck]

If it looks like a schoolbus and is parked in a bus stop or it is on the side of road in a rural area, then I would rather assume that it is a schoolbus and slow down, than just keep on trucking and possibly splatter some poor suckers kids all over the road.
Whats a few seconds of having to slow down costing you in the long run, sweet fuck all thats what.:chase:

[bogan]

Whats a few seconds of having to slow down costing you in the long run, sweet fuck all thats what.:chase:

Few seconds? takes me 8 days to get the van up to the 'speed limit'

[Akzle]

Few seconds? takes me 8 days to get the van up to the 'speed limit'

lay off the pies.

[Madness]

uh, it's a 'she'.

And you're not a Detective Sergeant already? The mind boggles!

[Taxythingy]

Je ne suis pas raciste. Je suis un muncher de beigne .

Tres bien! :Police:

[GrayWolf]

It's currently 20 km/hr when passing a school bus with passengers entering or exiting, on either side of the road. SO traffic in both directions has to slow to 20 km/hr. It's not hard. Just do it. You surely don't need signs to remind you that kids are unpredictable and worth something and you should avoid killing them at all costs?

Oh, sorry, my mistake, this is NZ where children are property and physical and emotional punching bags.


I may agree with you in part James, but I also see the other side of them, where they put themselves (kids) at obvious risk of being killed or maimed on literally a daily basis. Regardless of lights, bells 'locking' safety gates, or simply being on the corridor.

[GrayWolf]

But your a wanker too, so I don't care.:msn-wink:

For ALL KB Wankers!

http://tinyurl.com/bzhuu4t

[Scuba_Steve]

Few seconds? takes me 8 days to get the van up to the 'speed limit'

old non-turbo diesel is it?
I fucking hated traffic lights with double lanes when driving them... all the fuckers you just overtook cause they're dawdling along at 80 decide instead of doing the right thing & getting in behind cause clearly the van that just blew past them a k or so back is the faster vehicle, they would get beside & make the whole process start again due to them having the faster acceleration :mad:
Even worse when those double lanes ended into single :angry2:

[rastuscat]

Tres bien! :Police:

Merci beaucoup.

[GrayWolf]

Merci beaucoup.

:Oi: STOP IT!!!

I came 12,000 miles to get away from the garlic salesmen! :bash::bash::bash:

[Madness]

I came 12,000 miles to get away from the garlic salesmen!

That right there is just another reason to dislike the French.

[scumdog]

And you're not a Detective Sergeant already? The mind boggles!

I was pointing it out to somebody who appeared not to know...:rolleyes:

"The sarcasm is strong within you Luke Madness..."

[James Deuce]

:Oi: STOP IT!!!

I came 12,000 miles to get away from the garlic salesmen! :bash::bash::bash:

La France a une longue et riche histoire et ce ne est qu'un accident de quelques semaines que la Nouvelle-Zélande ne est pas un français gens du pays parlant entièrement par les vendeurs d'ail biologique . Et vélo équitation tondeurs de moutons.

[rastuscat]

La France a une longue et riche histoire et ce ne est qu'un accident de quelques semaines que la Nouvelle-Zélande ne est pas un français gens du pays parlant entièrement par les vendeurs d'ail biologique . Et vélo équitation tondeurs de moutons.

Indeed. And it's also lucky that Akaroa isn't the capital.

[Ripperjon]

Wow, what was this thread about again?

I only just caught up with this one and had to sift through 20 pages of so much shit its giving me a headache. (And here i am adding to it, i know).

Anyway, that video that Gremlin posted way back on page 3 (i think) just shows the blatant ignorance of the reason for the high death toll here. And that is simply shit drivers.
(Unfortunately this is being proved lately by an influx of Chinese tourists who cant drive for shit causing accidents left, right and centre.)

How can we make accidents less deadly, reduce the speed limit/tolerance? How about improving the driving standard so those accidents dont happen in the first place. Simple.

Its a joke how easy it is to get a licence here. Just look at the road tolls by country per capita.
Countries with higher speed limits and busier roads are staying safer because the drivers are better and they're not allowed on the road (alone) until they prove it.

Thats my rant anyway.

[scumdog]

Wow, what was this thread about again?

I only just caught up with this one and had to sift through 20 pages of so much shit its giving me a headache. (And here i am adding to it, i know).

Anyway, that video that Gremlin posted way back on page 3 (i think) just shows the blatant ignorance of the reason for the high death toll here. And that is simply shit drivers.
(Unfortunately this is being proved lately by an influx of Chinese tourists who cant drive for shit causing accidents left, right and centre.)

How can we make accidents less deadly, reduce the speed limit/tolerance? How about improving the driving standard so those accidents dont happen in the first place. Simple.

Its a joke how easy it is to get a licence here. Just look at the road tolls by country per capita.
Countries with higher speed limits and busier roads are staying safer because the drivers are better and they're not allowed on the road (alone) until they prove it.

Thats my rant anyway.

Sorry, waaayy too much logic and sense to be on KB!:bleh::msn-wink:

[James Deuce]

Wow, what was this thread about again?

I only just caught up with this one and had to sift through 20 pages of so much shit its giving me a headache. (And here i am adding to it, i know).

Anyway, that video that Gremlin posted way back on page 3 (i think) just shows the blatant ignorance of the reason for the high death toll here. And that is simply shit drivers.
(Unfortunately this is being proved lately by an influx of Chinese tourists who cant drive for shit causing accidents left, right and centre.)

How can we make accidents less deadly, reduce the speed limit/tolerance? How about improving the driving standard so those accidents dont happen in the first place. Simple.

Its a joke how easy it is to get a licence here. Just look at the road tolls by country per capita.
Countries with higher speed limits and busier roads are staying safer because the drivers are better and they're not allowed on the road (alone) until they prove it.

Thats my rant anyway.

tl;dr :yawn:

[rastuscat]

Wow, what was this thread about again?

I only just caught up with this one and had to sift through 20 pages of so much shit its giving me a headache. (And here i am adding to it, i know).

Anyway, that video that Gremlin posted way back on page 3 (i think) just shows the blatant ignorance of the reason for the high death toll here. And that is simply shit drivers.
(Unfortunately this is being proved lately by an influx of Chinese tourists who cant drive for shit causing accidents left, right and centre.)

How can we make accidents less deadly, reduce the speed limit/tolerance? How about improving the driving standard so those accidents dont happen in the first place. Simple.

Its a joke how easy it is to get a licence here. Just look at the road tolls by country per capita.
Countries with higher speed limits and busier roads are staying safer because the drivers are better and they're not allowed on the road (alone) until they prove it.

Thats my rant anyway.


Yeah.

People are really shitty drivers. Lets have them go faster.

Nice.

[Big Dog]

Yeah.

People are really shitty drivers. Lets have them go faster.

Nice.

Yeah, let's take all speed limits off everywhere.
Take all law enforcement out of the picture.

Within generation we would only have two sorts of drivers.
Those who survived because they are both good and lucky.
Those who survived because they are rich enough to buy their way out of the resulting apocalypse.

Poverty would be mostly wiped out.

Disasters are great for the production sectors of the economy too. 3 birds two stones.



Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[unstuck]

People are really shitty drivers.

And generally have a shitty attitude that they take out on to the roads with them. But I think that includes about 90% of the national population, my self included at times.
But I also think that being aware that you are a fuckwit increases your chances to make the necessary changes needed to become less of a fuckwit. :o

We all have to be honest enough to put our hands up and admit we are part of the problem, and unless we change our attitude, people are going to keep dying on the roads, regardless of the speed limit.IMO .

[Tazz]

Yeah.

People are really shitty drivers. Lets have them go faster.

Nice.

What speed is fast? On a straight or bend? Rain shine? Fiat 500 or 2014 Corolla? Driver that's racked up 500,000kms or a learner not even at 1,000?

I prefer the improved driving standard over that old chestnut to be honest.

You want people to go slower? What speed is slow? Even 20kph is still to fast for some corners so do you blanket everything to 15kph for the interests of safety on that one piece of road?

Out of interest is there a speed limit on aircraft so if there is an accident they have more time to react or do they just take their chances? (pretty left field I know...)

[rastuscat]

What speed is fast? On a straight or bend? Rain shine? Fiat 500 or 2014 Corolla? Driver that's racked up 500,000kms or a learner not even at 1,000?

I prefer the improved driving standard over that old chestnut to be honest.

Someone had to set a number that allows prompt movement without compromising safety too much.

The numbers picked are the numbers picked. We can argue they should be higher or lower, but they are what they are.

I'd prefer that people were better drivers too, way better. Wishing hasn't worked yet

[James Deuce]

If wishes were farts, I'd have a methane powered bike.

[buggerit]

If wishes were farts, I'd have a methane powered bike.

Oh yes, its all fun and games till you get a flashback.:eek5::crybaby::o

[James Deuce]

Oh yes, its all fun and games till you get a flashback.:eek5::crybaby::o

I don't own a Ducati. I'll be fine.

[Ocean1]

Yeah, let's take all speed limits off everywhere.
Take all law enforcement out of the picture.

Within generation we would only have two sorts of drivers.

Where that actually has been done what you end up with is fewer accidents and better behaviour, immediately.

So why aren't we doing that?

[scumdog]

Where that actually has been done what you end up with is fewer accidents and better behaviour, immediately.

So why aren't we doing that?

Yeah but we ARE talking about New Zealanders here...:facepalm:

[Paul in NZ]

Jeeze hold on...

We are going around in circles here but there is actually an issue to be discussed here...

I'm all for discretion being allowed to the Police officer but I draw a line at the whole 1km over idiocy... Yes there is an issue with idiots and needless aggression but getting all nuclear on 1km over isn't going to help.

I don't want to be hanging out in the passing zone for 30 mins passing a stinking great truck, I do NOT want to spend my whole life in fear of a speed camera when I actually need to be scared of a whole lot of other hazards... I'm fed up with being made to feel like somehow the road toll is my fault...

Yes of course the impact of an accident is lessened as the speed decreases... That's NOT the same thing as reducing the accident rate.

It used to be 100kph along centennial highway. There were 3 fatals in a short period of time in the same spot - two flew right off the road onto the rocks on the foreshore... One was pissed, one was fucking about with a dog in the back seat and cant remember what the 3rd was doing. I could drive my shitty starlet around there at 120kph with out a passenger raising an eyebrow and narry a squeal from the tyres.... How the hell these muppets managed to kill themselves is a mystery... So now its 80kph and wire rope barriers... Fair enough... I don't want some idiot running into me either but I did NOT kill those people - they died because they were stupid.

[Madness]

My thinking is to always ignore the speed limit when overtaking as a fine and even loss of license is a lot cheaper than risking a head on to avoid a ticket.

My thinking is that being patient and waiting for a better overtaking opportunity is sometimes easier to live with than a loss of licence too.

[James Deuce]

I'm all for discretion being allowed to the Police officer but I draw a line at the whole 1km over idiocy... Yes there is an issue with idiots and needless aggression but getting all nuclear on 1km over isn't going to help.



It isn't happening. A short chat with the National Traffic Superintendant reveals that the 1km over thing is a media beat up of the worst kind. All that was said is that the speed limit is 100 km/hr and we'd like people setting their cruise control to 110 to stop doing that please. Unlike other holiday periods recently there's been no mention of the 104 limit, yet, but I wouldn't blame them for doing that now. If you are travelling at more than 8% over the speed limit in any zone, you'll get a ticket.

And yes, this Super is one of us and he is actually a good bloke, but is rapidly developing a "fuck you cyst" in regard to the "media".

If you do get pulled over, for goodness sake, don't fail the attitude test or one may find oneself in possesion of a ticket for 1km/h over.

[FJRider]

...is it still possible to get a ticket below the new tolerance? :confused:


;)

It is possible to get a ticket BELOW the posted speed limit.

The "Enforcers" call it dangerous driving ... Road/weather/traffic conditions can make ANY posted speed limit a stupid objective ....

[FJRider]

... If you do get pulled over, for goodness sake, don't fail the attitude test or one may find oneself in possesion of a ticket for 1km/h over.

Plus a few for "other" issues with your vehicle that you forgot about ... or didn't know about.

It could be the difference between ... A "A demand for some of your funds" ... or a compliance notice ...


Tough choice ... eh .. !!!

[scumdog]

It isn't happening. A short chat with the National Traffic Superintendant reveals that the 1km over thing is a media beat up of the worst kind.

I tried to tell all the Chicken Littles on KB that - but it didn't work....all I got was slagged off for being bluidey sarcarstic!:lol:

It amazed me how many people hung onto the 1kph tolerance myth for so long.. eeeh, nowt as strange as fowk!

[Madness]

It amazed me how many people hung onto the 1kph tolerance myth for so long..

These days it seems some will use any excuse to throw their hands in the air, sign a partition, fly a flag and blindly protest by filling all available car parks in a busy shopping precinct.

Meh.

I'd rather go for a ride.

[Big Dog]

Where that actually has been done what you end up with is fewer accidents and better behaviour, immediately.

So why aren't we doing that?

It was supposed to be tounge in cheek... with a wonderment to how long exactly before Aucklanders started starving to death on the motorways.

I have to say though the areas I have lived in that don't have law enforcement representatives (Urenui we got a community copper once a month for 1-2 days) we might have witnessed more drink driving ( separate but very important issue in my mind ) but:
* a shitload less speeding
* no-one ran the only 2 give ways in "town"
* everyone pulled over to let faster moving drivers through
* No one was ever in a rush to get anywhere.
* everyone indicates.

The downsides:
* not uncommon to come around a 100km blind corner to find a couple of cars stopped in the middle of the road chatting out the drivers windows.
* not uncommon to find out that someone rung your dad about the way you were driving on the way home.
* if you do something "thick" you will get a bit of grief at the pub.
* only places the speed limit is observed is outside the school / kindy and the golf course.

[BlackSheepLogic]

Try driving in a shit hole like Egypt. There were traffic police but they mostly directed traffic at grid locked intersections. Free for all where bigger wins every time.


It was supposed to be tounge in cheek... with a wonderment to how long exactly before Aucklanders started starving to death on the motorways.

I have to say though the areas I have lived in that don't have law enforcement representatives (Urenui we got a community copper once a month for 1-2 days) we might have witnessed more drink driving ( separate but very important issue in my mind ) but:
* a shitload less speeding
* no-one ran the only 2 give ways in "town"
* everyone pulled over to let faster moving drivers through
* No one was ever in a rush to get anywhere.
* everyone indicates.

The downsides:
* not uncommon to come around a 100km blind corner to find a couple of cars stopped in the middle of the road chatting out the drivers windows.
* not uncommon to find out that someone rung your dad about the way you were driving on the way home.
* if you do something "thick" you will get a bit of grief at the pub.
* only places the speed limit is observed is outside the school / kindy and the golf course.

[roogazza]

My thinking is to always ignore the speed limit when overtaking as a fine and even loss of license is a lot cheaper than risking a head on to avoid a ticket.

Get up it and get past and nowdays more than ever have your eyes peeled.
I ain't hanging out to dry worrying about the speedo .
My Radar detector (safety device) helps too.:innocent:
But hey, you get nabbed, you pay the fee.

[Ocean1]

Yeah but we ARE talking about New Zealanders here...:facepalm:

Who, in spite of arguments to the contrary respond to rules in exactly the same manner as every other western culture.

Badly.

And given the preponderance of Celtic heritage probably worse than average.


It was supposed to be tounge in cheek....

The reply was more in the line of a statement of fact. One easily demonstrated if you've a mind to suspend your blame cultured corporate enforcement conditioning and actually look.


I have to say though the areas I have lived in that don't have law enforcement representatives (Urenui we got a community copper once a month for 1-2 days) we might have witnessed more drink driving ( separate but very important issue in my mind ) but:
* a shitload less speeding
* no-one ran the only 2 give ways in "town"
* everyone pulled over to let faster moving drivers through
* No one was ever in a rush to get anywhere.
* everyone indicates.

The downsides:
* not uncommon to come around a 100km blind corner to find a couple of cars stopped in the middle of the road chatting out the drivers windows.
* not uncommon to find out that someone rung your dad about the way you were driving on the way home.
* if you do something "thick" you will get a bit of grief at the pub.
* only places the speed limit is observed is outside the school / kindy and the golf course.

Exactly. Common sense prevails, same as it did before the gestaposisation of the road rules.

Which is in no way a claim that a common sense approach is "safer". It's simply recognising where the responsibility lies.

You can change the behaviour of a culture by reiterative carrot/stick policing. But whoever the fuck thinks they have the right to do so can garn get fukctd.

[Scuba_Steve]

Yeah.

People are really shitty drivers. Lets have them go faster.

Nice.

Still a better idea then

People are really shitty drivers. Lets have ignore the road completely & watch a speedo instead.


Also you'll find when people have to drive [read: think] for themselves they become much better at it... As the roads have become stupider so have the drivers

[Paul in NZ]

It isn't happening. A short chat with the National Traffic Superintendant reveals that the 1km over thing is a media beat up of the worst kind. All that was said is that the speed limit is 100 km/hr and we'd like people setting their cruise control to 110 to stop doing that please. Unlike other holiday periods recently there's been no mention of the 104 limit, yet, but I wouldn't blame them for doing that now. If you are travelling at more than 8% over the speed limit in any zone, you'll get a ticket.

And yes, this Super is one of us and he is actually a good bloke, but is rapidly developing a "fuck you cyst" in regard to the "media".

If you do get pulled over, for goodness sake, don't fail the attitude test or one may find oneself in possesion of a ticket for 1km/h over.

Look - I don't disagree and of course I'm always reasonable with people at the workface.

BUT - what I think happens is that this shit gets leaked to the media as a wee tester to see how people will react and therefore I intend to get as hot and bothered as all get out when it bugs me and this shit DOES bug me... I'm sick being made to feel guilty or responsible for shit like violence to kids or women or road deaths... Its bollocks

[Madness]

At least it's cost the taxpayer less than a glossy Saatchi & Saatchi multimedia campaign would have, probably provoked more thought and discussion too. There's gubbermint propaganda everywhere these days, just tune it out.

[rastuscat]

Just some facts.

When the tolerance was standardised at 10 kmh, the policy was that anyone doing 1 - 10 over was to be stopped and warned, and anyone doing 11 or more over was to be tagged.

Nobody ever bought into the warning part, as we've been told for years that warnings don't work.

So people developed an expectation that they could drive around up to 10 kmh over any limit and not be stopped. Look at the effect that had. People are now choking at the idea of a 4 km'h tolerance.

People lost sight of the fact that the number in black digits on the round sign with the red border was the speed limit. Hell, we would stop people at 61 in a 50, and they'd grizzle that they were being ticketed after only being 1 over the tolerance. Like, they wanted a tolerance on the tolerance !!

What the management said a couple of weeks back is that it's high time folk stopped expecting a tolerance, and driving to it. The fourth estate took that to mean nil tolerance, when that was never stated. What we are going to stop doing is telling people it's okay to exceed the limit.

I mean, how about we say it's okay to shop lift as long as you don't pinch anything worth more than $2. A stretch, but you get the point.

We get funded to enforce the speed limit. Yet we decide how fast people can go. Sheesh. We actually created that expectation.

It's the pain of trying to "uncreate" it that hurts.

[unstuck]

. Yet we decide how fats people can go.

Your not doing well there either then, cos there are still plenty of fat buggers around.:yes:

[rastuscat]

Your not doing well there either then, cos there are still plenty of fat buggers around.:yes:

Meh, my bad. Fixed it for ya.

[skippa1]

[QUOTE]We get funded to enforce the speed limit
yet the same enforcers break it at will.....


Yet we decide how fats people can go. Sheesh.
what you mean is you can travel in excess of the speed limit, but if you have had a shitty day you can issue a ticket for the exact same behaviour


We actually created that expectation.

What has been created is a band of moody fuckin hypocrites that can't adhere to the very Rules they enforce

[scumdog]

People lost sight of the fact that the number in black digits on the round sign with the red border was the speed limit. Hell, we would stop people at 61 in a 50, and they'd grizzle that they were being ticketed after only being 1 over the tolerance. Like, they wanted a tolerance on the tolerance !!



Haha, how often did I hear that sort of explanation "Jesus Christ, I was only doing 4kph over the limit" when someone was pulled over for doing 114kph. :lol::facepalm:

[Berries]

I mean, how about we say it's okay to shop lift as long as you don't pinch anything worth more than $2. A stretch, but you get the point.
Sweet.






The two dollar shop is fucked though.

[rastuscat]

[QUOTE=rastuscat;1130800055]


yet the same enforcers break it at will.....


what you mean is you can travel in excess of the speed limit, but if you have had a shitty day you can issue a ticket for the exact same behaviour



What has been created is a band of moody fuckin hypocrites that can't adhere to the very Rules they enforce

While it would be nice if the entire dept cared about road safety, for most it's a fact that road safety isn't at the top of their list of priorities. Most popos don't work in road safety.

Most are just a reflection of the society we work in. So a few don't think about the detrimental effect their bad driving behaviour has on our overall
public impression.

A few are of the same view as Akzle and Skoober about speed enforcement, so it's not hard to imagine them driving to their beliefs.

That leaves those of us who give a toss frustrated, more so than even you, I suspect.

That's life. It's hard to see it changing.

[skippa1]

[QUOTE=skippa1;1130800077]

While it would be nice if the entire dept cared about road safety, for most it's a fact that road safety isn't at the top of their list of priorities. Most popos don't work in road safety.

Most are just a reflection of the society we work in. So a few don't think about the detrimental effect their bad driving behaviour has on our overall
public impression.

A few are of the same view as Akzle and Skoober about speed enforcement, so it's not hard to imagine them driving to their beliefs.

That leaves those of us who give a toss frustrated, more so than even you, I suspect.

That's life. It's hard to see it changing.
Thanks for your honesty

green bling

[haydes55]

Still haven't seen any evidence of speed limit enforcement reducing road tolls, in fact the opposite is true in any jurisdiction that has removed road regulations.

The enforcement of speed limits has caused deaths. The fear of losing licenses (and subsequently jobs) encourages people to run from the police.

Speed limits reduce peoples respect for police. Who would respect someone who takes money off you, takes your license and in some cases jobs, in false pretenses of safety.

Hypothetically.... If someone was to lose their license, and continue riding, then gets caught again.... What can the cops actually do? If someone will ignore speed limits, why would they obey a disqualification? Remove the number plate and put the rego on hold, save half a grand a year, do what ever speed you want and ride safely..... Hypothetically remember.

[buggerit]

[QUOTE=rastuscat;1130800094][QUOTE=skippa1;1130800077]

While it would be nice if the entire dept cared about road safety, for most it's a fact that road safety isn't at the top of their list of priorities. Most popos don't work in road safety.

Most are just a reflection of the society we work in. So a few don't think about the detrimental effect their bad driving behaviour has on our overall
public impression.

A few are of the same view as Akzle and Skoober about speed enforcement, so it's not hard to imagine them driving to their beliefs.

That leaves those of us who give a toss frustrated, more so than even you, I suspect.

That's life. It's hard to see it changing.[/QUOTE

Once you could tell the difference, before the accountants got involved.

[Scuba_Steve]

Fact

Speed has never killed
Speed scam has never been shown to decrease road toll or save lives
Speed scam has been shown to have further reaching [negative] effects on society in whole incl but not limited to increasing accidents, decreasing respect for police, increasing hatred for the police, & (as per UK study) potentially killing people
The fastest countries in the world have some of the lowest road-tolls while the slowest have the highest, NZ helps to reflect this. Take kuala lumpur for example (yes a capital rather than a country) the avg speed there is 11km/h yet they kill an avg of 18 people per day on their roads

But hey, never let facts get in the way of a good scam right <_<

[Taxythingy]

Take kuala lumpur for example (yes a capital rather than a country) the avg speed there is 11km/h yet they kill an avg of 18 people per day on their roads

Do you work for Stuff.co.nz? If not, you should apply. You seem to have a skill match.

[Berries]

Fact

Speed has never killed
Speed scam has never been shown to decrease road toll or save lives
Speed scam has been shown to have further reaching [negative] effects on society in whole incl but not limited to increasing accidents, decreasing respect for police, increasing hatred for the police, & (as per UK study) potentially killing people
The fastest countries in the world have some of the lowest road-tolls while the slowest have the highest, NZ helps to reflect this. Take kuala lumpur for example (yes a capital rather than a country) the avg speed there is 11km/h yet they kill an avg of 18 people per day on their roads
Nah, you lost me just there. 18 people per day in KL? Bollocks.

I have spent a bit of time in Malaysia and the reason for the high road toll (on rural roads, not in KL) is the fact that the only protective gear used on scooters is an anorak put on back to front and a basket of live chickens.

[GrayWolf]

My thinking is that being patient and waiting for a better overtaking opportunity is sometimes easier to live with than a loss of licence too.

Today I started work at 3pm... Onto the Hutt Motorway at Petone.... be patient and wait for a better overtaking spot??

Inside lane, queue of cars doing about 80kph, (big truck up front).. fairy snuff!
Middle lane, doing about 90-95, several gaps, then some bunched up vehicles..

Right hand lane.... FFS. solid queue, up front, there it is, the I'm doing 95kph, and I'm going to sit in the fast (overtaking lane) Because!! It ended up with several cars (to get past the numpty) having to dive into a 'gap' in the middle lane, then get back into the right hand lane. You guessed it.... NOTHING in front of the numpty.
When we got past the Ngauranga interchange....the left lane traffic thinned out somewhat... there it was, numpty, still in the right lane doing 95, and wasnt going to vacate it for no-one.....
So, we go further to where the traffic coming down the gorge to wellington merges (4 lanes into 3) yup middle lane traffic 'undertaking' numpty. By the time I turned off at Aotea Quay... it was STILL in the right hand lane.

[Mo NZ]

Still haven't seen any evidence of speed limit enforcement reducing road tolls, in fact the opposite is true in any jurisdiction that has removed road regulations.

.

Himm.

I heard the 10kph thing started in Central Districts. The cops ticketed every driver 11kph over the limit.
There was a 60% reductions in fatal crashes in the area over the next year.
Some bean counter worked out that each fatal cost $1,000,000.
Bring on the Highway Patrol.
Then the 10kph thing went viral.

There was shitloads of comments about the 10kph thing in Central Districts at the time.
It was almost a given if you sped up S.H.1 from Bulls to Waiouru you almost certainly get stopped and a ticket.

The rest is history

[haydes55]

Himm.



I heard the 10kph thing started in Central Districts. The cops ticketed every driver 11kph over the limit.

There was a 60% reductions in fatal crashes in the area over the next year.

Some bean counter worked out that each fatal cost $1,000,000.

Bring on the Highway Patrol.

Then the 10kph thing went viral.



There was shitloads of comments about the 10kph thing in Central Districts at the time.

It was almost a given if you sped up S.H.1 from Bulls to Waiouru you almost certainly get stopped and a ticket.



The rest is history


Fatalities dropped because of enforcement of safety equipment. If you look at the stats, I bet the number of crashes didn't drop significantly.

[Mo NZ]

I think you be surprised it you were to look up the stats before you bet anything on that.
The flow on effect was a dramatic reduction across the board ( including fatals ).
Check it out.

[Mo NZ]

Fatalities dropped because of enforcement of safety equipment.

By that I assume you mean the introduction of the Highway Patrol Groups, cars with front and rear antennas, cops to drive them and do the enforcement, with a direction to rigidly enforce the 10kph rule. I understand the Govt made extra funding available to the cops for this, over and above the usual funding at the time.

[jasonu]

Just try and make sure you are following behind someone else as much as possible so they get the ticket and not you. What I found though with the 5km tolerance people would drive at 45km/hr in town so now lots of people will be doing 40. This brings to an end of any hope of 110km/hr on the open road.

and if you have to slam on your brakes be sure no one is behind you.

[Scuba_Steve]

Do you work for Stuff.co.nz? If not, you should apply. You seem to have a skill match.

Nah, you lost me just there. 18 people per day in KL? Bollocks.

I have spent a bit of time in Malaysia and the reason for the high road toll (on rural roads, not in KL) is the fact that the only protective gear used on scooters is an anorak put on back to front and a basket of live chickens.

Yea my bad guys was tired so sorta half arsed it. Was running off memory of a doco I saw year back which went on about lowest speeds but some of the highest road fatalities so searched out road fatalities in KL, pulled info from page I found; just gone back & looked at it now & it was 18.6 people per day in Malaysia not just KL... Need to find that doco again, think it was a BBC one... Even so mistake excluded, fact still stands



By that I assume you mean the introduction of the Highway Patrol Groups, cars with front and rear antennas, cops to drive them and do the enforcement, with a direction to rigidly enforce the 10kph rule. I understand the Govt made extra funding available to the cops for this, over and above the usual funding at the time.

No introduction of devices like ABS, anti-roll bars, side intrusion bars, stability control, traction control, improved seatbelts, airbags, improved crumple zones, WRB etc
These have been clearly shown to help reduce road fatalities, the speed scam (and HW patrol) has not!

[scumdog]

Y

No introduction of devices like ABS, anti-roll bars, side intrusion bars, stability control, traction control, improved seatbelts, airbags, improved crumple zones, WRB etc
These have been clearly shown to help reduce road fatalities, the speed scam (and HW patrol) has not!


Sure they help but but the speed scam as you call it will have some effect too...

And 'clearly shown to help'? - is there figures you can quote?
Likewise 'the speed scam (and HW patrol) has not' - figures to support that?

(And a shame driver skills haven't kept up with the above technology)

[roogazza]

Quite a lot seems to have changed/achieved as regard speeds in the last 15 or so years? (when HP was invented ?)
I returmed from years living Australia late 97 and was amazed at the speed of general traffic around Wgton. People I thought,seemed to be travelling at about 120ks ?
Fifteen or so years on we have them doing 90/95kph ? It's quite noticeable.
(Trying to use cruise control is hopeless, unless you strike an empty road.) But thats just poor drivers that can't maintain road speed.
Road deaths don't seem to have changed much ??
Though I don't expect it to, as long as humans are involved.

[Scuba_Steve]

Sure they help but but the speed scam as you call it will have some effect too...

And 'clearly shown to help'? - is there figures you can quote?
Likewise 'the speed scam (and HW patrol) has not' - figures to support that?

(And a shame driver skills haven't kept up with the above technology)

The only effect the speed scam seems to have is an adverse one in both road safety & the wider community

I believe you can find both figures on the NZTA site

And yes it is a shame, as the roads/vehicles get better the drivers get worse... That's what happens when people don't have to think for themselves, maybee Councils & the NZTA should stop doing it for them driving skill would increase significantly then

[rastuscat]

No introduction of devices like ABS, anti-roll bars, side intrusion bars, stability control, traction control, improved seatbelts, airbags, improved crumple zones, WRB etc
These have been clearly shown to help reduce road fatalities, the speed scam (and HW patrol) has not!

So over the two year period that the major decline happened in, the entire vehicle fleet improved by so much it was the main cause for the decline?

Car improvements have made a massive difference over the long term, but it's a very slow process. Getting people to trash their car because it doesn't have traction control just doesn't happen overnight.

[bogan]

So over the two year period that the major decline happened in, the entire vehicle fleet improved by so much it was the main cause for the decline?

Car improvements have made a massive difference over the long term, but it's a very slow process. Getting people to trash their car because it doesn't have traction control just doesn't happen overnight.

What was the major decline, and was it normalised by kms travelled? And what is the standard decline due to better cars/roads?

[caspernz]

Get up it and get past and nowdays more than ever have your eyes peeled.
I ain't hanging out to dry worrying about the speedo .
My Radar detector (safety device) helps too.:innocent:
But hey, you get nabbed, you pay the fee.

Same approach here, including the radar detector safety device for the overtaking moves.

[caspernz]

My thinking is that being patient and waiting for a better overtaking opportunity is sometimes easier to live with than a loss of licence too.

That's patented trucker logic.

[Akzle]

Getting people to trash their car because it doesn't have traction control just doesn't happen overnight.

depending on my mode of transport, traction is controlled by my right wrist (or thumb), or my right ankle, and my steering input.

if i wanted a computer to second guess me i'd buy an iFaggotry device and set it to 'argue'.

of course, i'm that rare breed of motherfucker that pays attention when piloting a 2 tonne weapon.

[R650R]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/63849814/GPS-speed-readings-not-accepted

Good thing the police are not the courts as the precendent has already been established there that GPS is gold standard undisputable evidence for speed. However it has to be a system that records it in a file somewhere/tracking etc.
Not this nonsense of I said it was reading such and suach on date x, numptie drivers....
Its a pity the police didn't say it like this as they've just trashed the reputation of evidence they have already prosecuted people with....

[rastuscat]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/63729748/dodgy-speedos-may-cost-drivers

Everyone exceeds 50? Not according to the article above.

[bogan]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/63849814/GPS-speed-readings-not-accepted

Good thing the police are not the courts as the precendent has already been established there that GPS is gold standard undisputable evidence for speed. However it has to be a system that records it in a file somewhere/tracking etc.
Not this nonsense of I said it was reading such and suach on date x, numptie drivers....
Its a pity the police didn't say it like this as they've just trashed the reputation of evidence they have already prosecuted people with....

What sort of GPS are you talking about though? If you refer to the one in my phone then that is bullshit.

[awayatc]

Wow....... cop logic at its best....
they checked how many vehicles??......
30.....
and how many of those 30 had a radar detector .....?

like so many points traffic popolice is making....
Manufactured and self serving.

[scumdog]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/63729748/dodgy-speedos-may-cost-drivers

Everyone exceeds 50? Not according to the article above.


Vaughan said he disagreed with police being able to ticket drivers who were travelling as low as 1kmh over the limit


Spare me days, who the hell has been pulled over by a cop and ticketed for doing 1kph over the speed limit?????:pinch::facepalm:

People who worry about that sort of triviality worry me....;)

[unstuck]

People who worry about that sort of triviality worry me....;)

Why? They are all on here and not out on the roads.:whistle:

[Gremlin]

Car improvements have made a massive difference over the long term, but it's a very slow process. Getting people to trash their car because it doesn't have traction control just doesn't happen overnight.
Not to mention you can still buy new reasonably expensive vehicles with no traction control. Hiace springs to mind as I've just collected a 2008 one (and typing this in Christchurch).

[GrayWolf]

So over the two year period that the major decline happened in, the entire vehicle fleet improved by so much it was the main cause for the decline?

Car improvements have made a massive difference over the long term, but it's a very slow process. Getting people to trash their car because it doesn't have traction control just doesn't happen overnight.

yet where is the independent statistical evidence that proves the reduction was due to the 4km policy? If memory serves last year? there were several major incidents and deaths that were higher than usual (pre 4km allowance). I accept that I only studied stats at 'undergrad' level, but we sure learned how they can be skewed to suit your requirements.

I'm not popping at you on this Rastus, but in an earlier post you said that you could judge your road speed by sight/vehicle noise. :clap: I doubt anyone is THAT good that 1-2km's is instantly discernible. :cool: My bike does 5km for every 100rpm... you reckon I am going to 'hear' 20-40rpm? and I dont think ANYONE's hand or foot is THAT steady!

[scumdog]

Why? They are all on here and not out on the roads.:whistle:

You worry me....:bleh:

[James Deuce]

You worry me....:bleh:

He's right though.

I wish people would just drop this issue. There is no allowance, there's a little bit of discretion afforded officers so that we can get from point A to point B without having our time massively and expensively wasted. Rather than smacking traffic Police about we should be looking at media who made this news with that expression on your face you have when you are talking to someone who has something grotesque smeared across their face but you're too nice to say anything about it.

[caspernz]

Spare me days, who the hell has been pulled over by a cop and ticketed for doing 1kph over the speed limit?????:pinch::facepalm:

Well actually...first hand experience some years back of being pulled over for 91 (alleged) in a truck. Himatangi straights (north of Foxton), with cruise set at 92 (onboard GPS made this actual 90). This was in one of those blitz months leading up to Xmas period. Just asked him where I had to go to court to contest, he stopped writing. Isolated incident I'll admit.

A year or two back the bigger talking point amongst truckers was being written up in some parts of the country for phantom speeds. Had one in Wellington where a truck limited to 88 was ticketed by a mobile patrol for doing 107, uphill to boot. Took quite some effort to get this ticket torn up. GPS records were part of the key.

But heck, let's not pretend that ALL truckers and bikers are innocent motorists...and I'm all for road safety.

In my mind punitive speed enforcement without targeting the other bad behaviours (or that's the perception anyway) and the boys'n'girls in blue are fighting a losing battle in keeping the respect of Joe Public.

[unstuck]

You worry me....:bleh:

Yep, me too.:devil2:

[GrayWolf]

Not to mention you can still buy new reasonably expensive vehicles with no traction control. Hiace springs to mind as I've just collected a 2008 one (and typing this in Christchurch).

I am not a major fan of electronic interventions as a 'rely on' factor Gremlin. I understand and 'have had instance' that they can be a saving grave. THAT is what they should be, the 'saving grace' when we fuck up big time. If you look at Finland as an example, as part of their driver training they HAVE to do skid pan and gravel road control. What's wrong with being taught things like cadence braking, and other manual skills?
We have a computer system at work on our 'vehicles' that is so powerful the things could 'literally' drive themselves. The electronic traction/braking system is so bloody sensitive and invasive, we want to be able to turn it off in adverse conditions.
The adverts they ran on TV a few years ago.. (the mines on a fast bend).. to me it was teaching that the traction/stability control will save your arse... Yes it does, but people being people are relying on these support mechanism's rather than actual driving skill. (it's OK to go flat out, the electronics will keep me on the road).
I was watching top gear in the early hours the other night, and Clarkson was testing a Ferrari GTO (600+bhp) Those guys are all reasonably skilled and adept at slide, power slide etc control. He switched off the electronics and was unable to control the car, his comment was this car is beyond an animal, it's a bastard! This is what I fear in many ways will be the final solution for cars, the driver will have little to no choice/say in the cars control.

One of the things I found surprising when I moved to NZ is that learners can drive a car (even with restrictions) un supervised, and at a very young age. The UK you cannot touch a car till 17yrs old, and MUST have a qualified driver in the front seat beside you.

[scumdog]

One of the things I found surprising when I moved to NZ is that learners can drive a car (even with restrictions) un supervised, and at a very young age. The UK you cannot touch a car till 17yrs old, and MUST have a qualified driver in the front seat beside you.

You should have heard all the hand-wringing whingers and their 'lordy-me's when the driving age was boosted from 15 years old to 16, how was anybody ever going through the trauma..<_<

You would have thought it was the end of the world for some...:rolleyes:

(A side-effect of this is empty spaces at the high-school car-park!:laugh:)

[Gremlin]

Yeah, I'm a bit in 2 minds about the electronic interventions. As you say, there is no requirement to do skid pan etc, so I would say it's more likely your average driver doesn't have the car control of a decade or two ago, simply because you don't need it. Hell, there are those that panic when ABS makes the brake pedal vibrate, and then lift off the brake.

On the other hand, different vehicles perform in different ways. Previous ute, I had it spin up at 30kph just following another vehicle through an intersection... road was slippery (and I've seen a few cars through the guard rail over the years) and now it's high grip surface as of a few months ago.

Ho hum... yes, it can allow drivers to be less skilled, but it does keep the average driver safer...

[pritch]

I live in a City with actual people.

But don't you live in Auckland? :whistle:

[James Deuce]

You should have heard all the hand-wringing whingers and their 'lordy-me's when the driving age was boosted from 15 years old to 16, how was anybody ever going through the trauma..<_<

You would have thought it was the end of the world for some...:rolleyes:

(A side-effect of this is empty spaces at the high-school car-park!:laugh:)

My job isn't done until I get the minimum driving age rasied to 25.

[Banditbandit]

You should have heard all the hand-wringing whingers and their 'lordy-me's when the driving age was boosted from 15 years old to 16, how was anybody ever going through the trauma..<_<

You would have thought it was the end of the world for some...:rolleyes:



Yeah - if you were 14 about to turn 15 it would have been the end of the world ..

[rastuscat]

I accept that I only studied stats at 'undergrad' level, but we sure learned how they can be skewed to suit your requirements.

Yes, both of us can skew them, depending on our point of view.

I can tell the speed difference to maybe 5kmh difference, but to 1kmh? Nah, that's beyond me.

And the zero tolerance hubbub was caused by the media, not us. I doubt anyone has been tagged for 1 over. And if they have, it's be unusual circumstance.

Back to my donuts.

[bogan]

Yes, both of us can skew them, depending on our point of view.

You can skew the interpretation, not the data though.

306388

Doesn't look like any statistically significant event occurred recently to me.

Hmm, how about normalised per km then?

306389

Nope, fuck all there either.

[Big Dog]

My job isn't done until I get the minimum driving age rasied to 25.

A side effect of that will be more road users with no road experience who think they are awesome because they have life experience.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[James Deuce]

A side effect of that will be more road users with no road experience who think they are awesome because they have life experience.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.
Not so much: They have less brain damage over 25.

[mstriumph]

My job isn't done until I get the minimum driving age rasied to 25.

hell no ... raise it to 60 for new drivers and demand a reference from their grandparents ...

[mstriumph]

A side effect of that will be more road users with no road experience who think they are awesome because they have life experience.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

some of us ARE awesome ....

[Banditbandit]

Well, the police themselves have just given us an outstanding example ...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503462&objectid=11368598

[Dave-]

Something Something GPS accuracy.

OK keyboard warriors, let's hear it!

[scumdog]

Well, the police themselves have just given us an outstanding example ...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503462&objectid=11368598


"Rare Hot Rod"?

Well there's the medias credibility right out the window for a start.

Good to see they're right up to date with the incident too...September is nearly now isn't it?:confused:


Seems like the driver planted boot and din't realise how much stopping distance he would need and used another car on front to stop his progress - a good thing no speed was involved or there would be death in abundance going by what I have read on KB!:lol:

But you would have thought the driver would have taken more care with a car of that type...maybe he learned his 'skills' from some on KB??

[GrayWolf]

"Rare Hot Rod"?

Well there's the medias credibility right out the window for a start.

Good to see they're right up to date with the incident too...September is nearly now isn't it?:confused:


Seems like the driver planted boot and din't realise how much stopping distance he would need and used another car on front to stop his progress - a good thing no speed was involved or there would be death in abundance going by what I have read on KB!:lol:

But you would have thought the driver would have taken more care with a car of that type...maybe he learned his 'skills' from some on KB??

So there you go, even the Popo act 'dumb' sometimes. He'd had the car 3 weeks? Then was out 'hooning it'? I'll bet he hadnt traveled many K's so was unused to the acceleration and power! :wacko:

[unstuck]

Well, the police themselves have just given us an outstanding example ...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503462&objectid=11368598

Fucker paid 89g for a comaro, he should be hung.

[Reckless]

And the zero tolerance hubbub was caused by the media, not us. I doubt anyone has been tagged for 1 over. And if they have, it's be unusual circumstance.

The media may have reported it but your man said the words
"Anything over the limit is speeding and anyone speeding can expect to be pulled over," police assistant commissioner, road policing, Dave Cliff said
You guys on the ground may not be enforcing it but the intention is certainly there. I've never seen a backlash like this.
It goes to show the signs are there, more and more people are increasingly getting sick of the carry on out there.
The speed pressure is taking the pleasure out of a trip away and adding unneeded stress.
Constantly looking at your speedo, riding the brake down inclines in case you wander over 4kph.
I guess if people cant be stuffed going away that also suits the cause?
I reckon if I saw a cop on the side of the road with a flat and a flat spare I'd just keep driving. That would never have been the case a few years ago, thats for sure!
Even as a young hoon I would have stopped and helped. You have guys changed (or are changing) the Game to us and them I reckon?


Something Something GPS accuracy.

OK keyboard warriors, let's hear it!

You mean these LOL

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/63729748/dodgy-speedos-may-cost-drivers

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/63729748/dodgy-speedos-may-cost-drivers
He was done for 5k over

[Big Dog]

Hmm, how about normalised per km then?

306389

Nope, fuck all there either.

Based on that it has not been reductions in speed limit tolerance but rather reductions in how far people travel.

That means there is just as valid an argument for petrol prices saving lives. Or gridlock, or public transport.

Year In, year out I do less kms across all vehicles. Mostly because of cost. I doubt this makes me safer.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[BigAl]

.....Seems like the driver planted boot and din't realise how much stopping distance he would need and used another car on front to stop his progress......

Prolly too busy looking at his speedo to notice car in front stopped.

I actually feel sorry for him, dare I say it.

[scumdog]

The media may have reported it but your man said the words
"Anything over the limit is speeding and anyone speeding can expect to be pulled over," police assistant commissioner, road policing, Dave Cliff said
You guys on the ground may not be enforcing it but the intention is certainly there. I've never seen a backlash like this.
It goes to show the signs are there, more and more people are increasingly getting sick of the carry on out there.


Ahem, I must have missed the part where (a) people travelling at 1kph over the speed limit WILL be pulled over and (b) people travelling at 1kph over the speed limit WILL be issued a speeding ticket.


Bloody lot of hanky wringing knicker twisting Chicken Littles out there I tells ya...:lol:

[Akzle]

we should be looking at media who made this news with that expression on your face you have when you are talking to someone who has something grotesque smeared across their face but you're too nice to say anything about it.
bukake!

One of the things I found surprising when I moved to NZ is that learners can drive a car (even with restrictions) un supervised, and at a very young age. The UK you cannot touch a car till 17yrs old, and MUST have a qualified driver in the front seat beside you.

you can fuck right off. There are 12 year olds i would give the keys to any vehicle up to the 4.0. Mainly to drive me home from the pub, but still.

your average fuckwit (you) i wouldnt trust with grandmas tercel.

Young fullas can be trained. Its know-it-all old fucks that worry me.

[neels]

Year In, year out I do less kms across all vehicles. Mostly because of cost. I doubt this makes me safer.


Yes it does, less exposure to risk = lower overall risk. Very hard to die in a car crash if you're sitting in your living room at home.

The noise seems to have died down a bit now, which probably means the policy will be applied but just not advertised.

Either way, as suggested above you're now likely to have people fixated on their speedo's and braking on every downhill to avoid being ticketed for a few k's over the limit, rather than observing what's happening in the world past their windscreen.

[Banditbandit]

The media may have reported it but your man said the words
"Anything over the limit is speeding and anyone speeding can expect to be pulled over," police assistant commissioner, road policing, Dave Cliff said
You guys on the ground may not be enforcing it but the intention is certainly there. I've never seen a backlash like this.
It goes to show the signs are there, more and more people are increasingly getting sick of the carry on out there.
The speed pressure is taking the pleasure out of a trip away and adding unneeded stress.
Constantly looking at your speedo, riding the brake down inclines in case you wander over 4kph.


I've just spent two days on the road - did about 1,000ks - passed numerous cops - at least half of them I reckon I was doing more than 100 klicks, but less than 105 klicks .. and I never got stopped - not once ...

The media fuss is one thing - the reality on the roads appears to be something else ..

[Trouser]

You should see the fuckwits around here. I drive 30ks on the open road each way to and from work and since the police came up with this the number of numb nuts that drive at 90 has increased 10 fold. Crazy.

[rastuscat]

The media may have reported it but your man said the words
"Anything over the limit is speeding and anyone speeding can expect to be pulled over," police assistant commissioner, road policing, Dave Cliff said

Who said we'd be writing tickets at 1 over? He didn't.

[willytheekid]

Ahem, I must have missed the part where (a) people travelling at 1kph over the speed limit WILL be pulled over and (b) people travelling at 1kph over the speed limit WILL be issued a speeding ticket.


Bloody lot of hanky wringing knicker twisting Chicken Littles out there I tells ya...:lol:

Your right scummy...we should all just accept that the average Joe road user demands more focus than real criminals!

Nothing wrong with lowering the speed on the road, or enforcing a "fair tolerance" (thought 4k over was a tad tight but fair as it allows for honest mistakes and speedo inaccuracy etc etc blah blah)

But I think you are failing to see the bigger picture...that is REAL offenders are being given more rights than there victims and JOKE sentances by the courts!...repeat drink drivers? - 12th time caught? we "might" throw a real sentance at ya...real dangerous drivers? - community service and a joke fine! and it just keeps getting worse.
But the average joe!!...LETS TARGET THE FUCK OUT OF THEM!, and treat them like actual criminals while we are at!

Sorry mate...you may be a tad blind to the "new breed" that is seeping into the force...but the average Joe is not!...I also have friends and family in the force, and they too are concerned about the current intack of low IQ THUGS! that are currently being encouraged to join up...while the older mature and more STABLE members of the force are having more and more pressure put on them to get the fuck out!...whys that?...there morals and ethic's Just don't suit the new breed??(you tell me!)

Ive always had the higest respect for the police...tuff job with little thanks and lots of moans!...but this current "effort" to seperate the force from the public's trust and respect?...I just don't understand:confused:


case in point...

I "used" to wave to the local popo...not anymore!
Last time I gave a popo car a friendly wave while sitting at the lights while waiting paitently for them to detect me...they immediately and violently swung the car round(uturns not there thing aye)...they got out, and said "WHATS YOUR PROBLEM!!":blink:...ahh, nothing...sir!, I just shot you a wave :eek5:..."WELL DON'T!...license, rego, warrent, where are going, where have you been...":facepalm:...made me feel like I was a fucking criminal!...for waving!!:mellow:

I only wave at the Bike popos now (When I see them!)

...Safer communities aye <_<


But thankfully...I still have faith in the older popo such yourself, berg, Rastuscat etc...AND Im still dumb enough to still stop and help if its required...but sheeesh!...the young ones are NOT doing the force any favours...and its these young gun officers that WILL be exploiting this new "tolerance" just to have a reason to pull average Joe over and "flex there muscle"...and thats the primary concern mate, we are NOT the crim's you are looking for...there in court getting pampered to and slapped on the hand for REAL crime....think its time to stop treating us as such.

...still love ya work tho :love:


ps...was bloody great to see the pay march in CHCH this week :2thumbsup, a good old school tradition that also looks very professional and gives the community a chance to see those who serve in there finest (except they had our bike mate popo's standing way at the back watching:facepalm:...wtf!:laugh:)

[James Deuce]

Who said we'd be writing tickets at 1 over? He didn't.

You're wasting your breath mate, they've made their minds up.

[pete376403]

Whether this will be the case or not, how much police goodwill has been pissed away. When whats-his-name on Police 10-7 says something like "police need your help to identify these ….da da da etc" how many will just say, "Nah, fuckit, let the popo do the job they're paid to do"

[R650R]

What sort of GPS are you talking about though? If you refer to the one in my phone then that is bullshit.

There has been ample use of GPS including phone based ones to set court precendents in NZ that they are accurate representation of speed in serious accident cases.
A court judge stated this during a mates case where he decided against the location aspect (for logbook case) being kosha as it had not been tested in court before among other factors.