Police getting tougher on speed tolerance

[R650R]

You can see when riding the texters are back in force just doing it down low making it more dangerous.
The talkers are back also.

Now this would be fun

I don't think it ever stopped, sure a few would have changed but its not hard to spot people doing it.
I'm noticing a hell of a lot of kids using their cellphones while push biking, it will be interesting to see if when they get to car stage will the brain have adapted to do both or will our road toll surge in the next 5-10 years....

[rastuscat]

I don't think it ever stopped, sure a few would have changed but its not hard to spot people doing it.
I'm noticing a hell of a lot of kids using their cellphones while push biking, it will be interesting to see if when they get to car stage will the brain have adapted to do both or will our road toll surge in the next 5-10 years....

Funny. It's illegal to use a cellphone while using a vehicle, which includes cycles.

Imagine the uproar if we started hammering cyclists for texting while riding. It'd all be revenue collecting, quota blah blah blah.

When in fact it'd be due to trying to stop the cyclists from forming bad habits which they carry into cars.

Ah well.

[Murray]

Funny. It's illegal to use a cellphone while using a vehicle, which includes cycles.

Imagine the uproar if we started hammering cyclists for texting while riding. It'd all be revenue collecting, quota blah blah blah.


And go through red lights, crossings while people are crossing and they need to wear helmets (which seems to be overlooked these days).

No uproar from me - go for it

[Mike.Gayner]

A lady at work got ticketed for 72 in a 70 zone this week. Fucking pathetic.

[scumdog]

A lady at work got ticketed for 72 in a 70 zone this week. Fucking pathetic.

I'll say - she should have been doing 82!:bleh:

[Big Dog]

A lady at work got ticketed for 72 in a 70 zone this week. Fucking pathetic.

5$ says you also were not relayed the full story.

Does the full story include other actions that are difficult to ticket for? Such as dangerous driving that does not actually violate the law?
Or did she just fail the attitude test?
Or was she really doing 82 and the cop cut her a break for Christmas so she got less demerits?
Is her vehicle already known to police?

E.g If I got a ticket for 72 in a 70 when really it was 150m into a 50k zone my first instinct would be to omit the shameful part when relaying to work colleagues. Because I would be feeling defensive. Especially if my job required me to keep a clean license.
Given a day or two to process I would like to think I would include that little tidbit.

A few years ago I got an auto ticket from a speed camera for 61 in a 50. My first instinct was "fuckers, I was pacing a police bike. I can't have been speeding." Given a few weeks to reflect and a more honest self had to admit, either I knew I was speeding, suspected I was speeding, or worst possibility did not know I was speeding.
All leave me at fault.
Going to total honesty I know I chuckled to myself about how my speedo said I was doing near 70, but that meant so was the cop so I should be safe.

I am not a dishonest person, but our minds play tricks on us all the time so that we can live with ourselves.
Precisely why eye witness testimony of the same event often varies wildly.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[rastuscat]

Excellent, any chance your crew can carry on with those checks?
Scariest part of riding or driving down here are the red light runners and tail gating

It's business as usual.

[rastuscat]

I am not a dishonest person, but our minds play tricks on us all the time so that we can live with ourselves.


It's a psychological self defence mechanism. One of a few, actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_mechanisms

It's completely normal to protect ones view of oneself by only relating details that make us right.

Then to accuse the accuser, by accusing the cop of being a revenue collector.

Sigmund identified it. It appears to play out most days where I work.

[Big Dog]

Very prominent in employee and employer relationships.

Or should that be slave and slave driver?
Capitalist and downtrodden
Or hard done by employer and useless lazy staff?


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Edbear]

If the law maker has the authority and responsibility to make a law, they also have the same to enforce that law. If you choose to break that law, for whatever reason you want to use, you accept that it is your fault if you receive the stated punishment.

Because everyone has their own personal opinions and preferences, the law cannot please everyone. It cannot take into account everyone's preferences and will always be a compromise solution. That's life in a society, like it or not.

[rastuscat]

If the law maker has the authority and responsibility to make a law, they also have the same to enforce that law. If you choose to break that law, for whatever reason you want to use, you accept that it is your fault if you receive the stated punishment.

Because everyone has their own personal opinions and preferences, the law cannot please everyone. It cannot take into account everyone's preferences and will always be a compromise solution. That's life in a society, like it or not.

Aw come on. It's Christmas Eve. Let's all stop being so damn sensible.

[Edbear]

Aw come on. It's Christmas Eve. Let's all stop being so damn sensible.

Sorry, I will endeavour to be insensible as soon as possible... :innocent:

[Akzle]

If the law maker has the authority and responsibility to make a law, they also have the same to enforce that law. If you choose to break that law, for whatever reason you want to use, you accept that it is your fault if you receive the stated punishment.


well, no.
see "no man is above the law" - thus the law is made by god, in whatever iteration you fancy.
no man can break a law.

the authors of legislation use the phrase "given the force of law", further, they are a internal rules for a private company, thus apply only to those in business with them, to be enforced by their policy enforcement division.

no contract= no business = fuck off, thanks for playing. do not pass go do not collect 200$

every man is above legislation, should he elect to be.

[scumdog]

well, no.
see "no man is above the law" - thus the law is made by god, in whatever iteration you fancy.
no man can break a law.

the authors of legislation use the phrase "given the force of law", further, they are a internal rules for a private company, thus apply only to those in business with them, to be enforced by their policy enforcement division.

no contract= no business = fuck off, thanks for playing. do not pass go do not collect 200$

every man is above legislation, should he elect to be.

Back away from the tab...

[Scuba_Steve]

well, no.
see "no man is above the law" - thus the law is made by god, in whatever iteration you fancy.
no man can break a law.

the authors of legislation use the phrase "given the force of law", further, they are a internal rules for a private company, thus apply only to those in business with them, to be enforced by their policy enforcement division.

no contract= no business = fuck off, thanks for playing. do not pass go do not collect 200$

every man is above legislation, should he elect to be.

Also under their own rules the "law makers" have no authority to make "laws" & even less to enforce it... But we'll leave that for another day

[rastuscat]

But we'll leave that for another day

Thank heavens for that.

[blue rider]

Always interesting to hear the views of those who have no idea what they are talking about.


my dairy got robbed at 8:20 in the morning and the police showed up after we called them and gave them the video tapes and the rego and make and model of the get a way car. donut time man.

my neighbour offered me a beating for telling him to not go ride with his helmet less and half naked kid.

i have only once seen cops in my neighbourhood in a year and a half and that was after the dairy got robbed.

go hang out on some highway and earn your living.

[blue rider]

If the law maker has the authority and responsibility to make a law, they also have the same to enforce that law. If you choose to break that law, for whatever reason you want to use, you accept that it is your fault if you receive the stated punishment.

Because everyone has their own personal opinions and preferences, the law cannot please everyone. It cannot take into account everyone's preferences and will always be a compromise solution. That's life in a society, like it or not.



and then you have to realise that everything that was done in germany between 1933 - 1945 was legal and you might want to think about this comment again.

a lawmaker makes laws, but we as people might want to think about a. is it moral and ethical (and yeah moral and ethical is something that might want to be discussed further) and b. enforceable - do we need to employ a few more hundred donuts eaters that are essentially civilian losers to write tickets? , c. to the betterment of the community (is it good to throw someone in prison for years on end for a bag of weed...cost of upkeep just to prevent someone from getting stoned?), d. does it criminalise us? i.e. drive 1.5 km over a hundred while going down on a hill and you are a criminal if caught, you are also a criminal if a copper stops you on a motorway going fifty and you become a danger to society for slow driving.

Just use yer brains instead of just spouting feel good nonsense of how one is such a pillar of the community and the other is such a dreg.

[Edbear]

and then you have to realise that everything that was done in germany between 1933 - 1945 was legal and you might want to think about this comment again.

a lawmaker makes laws, but we as people might want to think about a. is it moral and ethical (and yeah moral and ethical is something that might want to be discussed further) and b. enforceable - do we need to employ a few more hundred donuts eaters that are essentially civilian losers to write tickets? , c. to the betterment of the community (is it good to throw someone in prison for years on end for a bag of weed...cost of upkeep just to prevent someone from getting stoned?), d. does it criminalise us? i.e. drive 1.5 km over a hundred while going down on a hill and you are a criminal if caught, you are also a criminal if a copper stops you on a motorway going fifty and you become a danger to society for slow driving.

Just use yer brains instead of just spouting feel good nonsense of how one is such a pillar of the community and the other is such a dreg.

You're drawing a very long bow to compare Nazi Germany here. If you know your history, "everything" was definitely not legal. Your argument is superfluous and invalid in the context of this thread.

We're discussing speed restrictions and the democratic process, not fascist dictatorships.

[scumdog]

i.e. drive 1.5 km over a hundred while going down on a hill and you are a criminal if caught,

When has THAT ever happened???:rolleyes:

A far too common scaredy-cat alarmist full-of-shit over-reaction:pinch::facepalm:

[Scuba_Steve]

You're drawing a very long bow to compare Nazi Germany here. If you know your history, "everything" was definitely not legal. Your argument is superfluous and invalid in the context of this thread.

We're discussing speed restrictions and the democratic process, not fascist dictatorships.

You're ignoring the fact Germany WAS a "democracy" (like ours) when Hitler took control
You're also ignoring the fact despite what people like to pretend to make themselves feel better we're NOT a democracy.

[Edbear]

You're ignoring the fact Germany WAS a "democracy" (like ours) when Hitler took control
You're also ignoring the fact despite what people like to pretend to make themselves feel better we're NOT a democracy.

So make your submission to change the speed laws. What would you make them?

[blue rider]

You're drawing a very long bow to compare Nazi Germany here. If you know your history, "everything" was definitely not legal. Your argument is superfluous and invalid in the context of this thread.

We're discussing speed restrictions and the democratic process, not fascist dictatorships.



no i don't. What i am showing is that it takes a lot of good citizens doing nothing for one to be able to abuse stuff.

Germany was a democracy then as is New Zealand now. all it takes is for a populace to do nothing, a police to enforce laws regardless of morality or even legality (which by the way was one large tenet of the Nuremberg Process, that one must not obey an order if this order is illegal....remember the defence "i was following orders" did not count and was not accepted? )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_orders
it makes for interesting reading.
then there is always this

People crushed by law, have no hopes but from power. If laws are their enemies, they will be enemies to laws; and those who have much to hope and nothing to lose, will always be dangerous.
Letter to Charles James Fox (1777-10-08). Edmund Burke

and last but least

Arendt's book introduced the expression and concept "the banality of evil".[4] Her thesis is that Eichmann was not a fanatic or sociopath, but an extremely average person who relied on clich� rather than thinking for himself and was motivated by professional promotion rather than ideology. Banality, in this sense, is not that Eichmann's actions were ordinary, or that there is a potential Eichmann in all of us, but that his actions were motivated by a sort of stupidity which was wholly unexceptional.[5] She never denied that Eichmann was an anti-semite, nor that he was fully responsible for his actions, but argued that these characteristics were secondary to his stupidity.



Hannah Arendt called it "the banality of evil". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem

No country woke up being a dictator ship overnight, it usually is a slow process something like boiling frogs...the heat is increased slowly over time.

[haydes55]

So make your submission to change the speed laws. What would you make them?


I would remove every speed limit if it was up to me. Subsidise driver training and public transport. Increase driving offence penalties.

A speed limit is a target, a target can push a driver to go faster than their skill, or slower than the road, circumstance and driver can handle. A speed limit encourages drivers to overtake slowly. A speed limit encourages drivers to look for cops, instead of paying attention to their driving. A speed limit is driven lower than it should be, by the bottom 5% of drivers, who shouldn't hold a licence at all, they wouldn't have a licence if police prosecuted poor driving as efficiently as speeding.

Demerits should be for failing to operate a vehicle safely, that would include failing to indicate, failing to dip headlights, failing to give way, causing crashes or being distracted.

Demerits count against a licence, not a vehicle, demerits shouldn't count for no rego.

Slap a go pro on a round about pointing at each road leading to it. Send a $50 ticket to every car that fails to indicate correctly. Insurance companies would save tens of millions in repairing crash damaged vehicles.

Enforce the keep left rule. That will speed up the motorway and reduce crashes at motorway speeds. Why is NZ the only country where cops allow pea brained morons to cruise monotonously along the fast lane below the speed limit?

[Scuba_Steve]

So make your submission to change the speed laws. What would you make them?

What would I make them?... I wouldn't
There would be advisories where needed & the cops focus would be dangerous driving, something that would actually do something positive for road safety
Of-course the licence test would be much harder as you'll actually need to be able to drive before being allowed on the roads but then there'd only be 2 levels too Learners & Full; you're either learning or able, there is no mid ground you can either drive or you can't simple as that!

OK that's more an abridged version of if I was in control of the roads rather than just "what I'd make speed limits" but your answers there

[awayatc]

no i don't. What i am showing is that it takes a lot of good citizens doing nothing for one to be able to abuse stuff.

Germany was a democracy then as is New Zealand now. all it takes is for a populace to do nothing, a police to enforce laws regardless of morality or even legality (which by the way was one large tenet of the Nuremberg Process, that one must not obey an order if this order is illegal....remember the defence "i was following orders" did not count and was not accepted? )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_orders
it makes for interesting reading.
then there is always this

People crushed by law, have no hopes but from power. If laws are their enemies, they will be enemies to laws; and those who have much to hope and nothing to lose, will always be dangerous.
Letter to Charles James Fox (1777-10-08). Edmund Burke

and last but least

Arendt's book introduced the expression and concept "the banality of evil".[4] Her thesis is that Eichmann was not a fanatic or sociopath, but an extremely average person who relied on clich� rather than thinking for himself and was motivated by professional promotion rather than ideology. Banality, in this sense, is not that Eichmann's actions were ordinary, or that there is a potential Eichmann in all of us, but that his actions were motivated by a sort of stupidity which was wholly unexceptional.[5] She never denied that Eichmann was an anti-semite, nor that he was fully responsible for his actions, but argued that these characteristics were secondary to his stupidity.



Hannah Arendt called it "the banality of evil". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem

No country woke up being a dictator ship overnight, it usually is a slow process something like boiling frogs...the heat is increased slowly over time.


Pleased to see there is at least one person left on this forum with a functioning brain...
we are well on our way to become what we condemned the germans for....

just doing as we were told....
modern day nazi henchman drive commodores..

very sad....
very true....

[Tazz]

Pleased to see there is at least one person left on this forum with a functioning brain...
we are well on our way to become what we condemned the germans for....

just doing as we were told....
modern day nazi henchman drive commodores..

very sad....
very true....

Step by step, but you're a loon for thinking so you know. Back in line! :bleh:

[awayatc]

Dont drink and write...

Not even on kb.....

[Edbear]

I would remove every speed limit if it was up to me. Subsidise driver training and public transport. Increase driving offence penalties.

A speed limit is a target, a target can push a driver to go faster than their skill, or slower than the road, circumstance and driver can handle. A speed limit encourages drivers to overtake slowly. A speed limit encourages drivers to look for cops, instead of paying attention to their driving. A speed limit is driven lower than it should be, by the bottom 5% of drivers, who shouldn't hold a licence at all, they wouldn't have a licence if police prosecuted poor driving as efficiently as speeding.

Demerits should be for failing to operate a vehicle safely, that would include failing to indicate, failing to dip headlights, failing to give way, causing crashes or being distracted.

Demerits count against a licence, not a vehicle, demerits shouldn't count for no rego.

Slap a go pro on a round about pointing at each road leading to it. Send a $50 ticket to every car that fails to indicate correctly. Insurance companies would save tens of millions in repairing crash damaged vehicles.

Enforce the keep left rule. That will speed up the motorway and reduce crashes at motorway speeds. Why is NZ the only country where cops allow pea brained morons to cruise monotonously along the fast lane below the speed limit?


What would I make them?... I wouldn't
There would be advisories where needed & the cops focus would be dangerous driving, something that would actually do something positive for road safety
Of-course the licence test would be much harder as you'll actually need to be able to drive before being allowed on the roads but then there'd only be 2 levels too Learners & Full; you're either learning or able, there is no mid ground you can either drive or you can't simple as that!

OK that's more an abridged version of if I was in control of the roads rather than just "what I'd make speed limits" but your answers there

Some very good points here. I'm sure that most Coppers would agree with most of it too.

[R650R]

Pop Quiz for the pro speeders....

YOU are pulling out of a junction or perhaps just changing lanes and misjudge the speed of an approaching vehicle that is exceeding the speed limit... a collisions results....
Now whose fault is it???

[Akzle]

Pop Quiz for the pro speeders....

YOU are pulling out of a junction or perhaps just changing lanes and misjudge the speed of an approaching vehicle that is exceeding the speed limit... a collisions results....
Now whose fault is it???

yours. you misjudged.
is that not fucking obvious?

[Scuba_Steve]

Pop Quiz for the pro speeders....

YOU are pulling out of a junction or perhaps just changing lanes and misjudge the speed of an approaching vehicle that is exceeding the speed limit... a collisions results....
Now whose fault is it???

What Akzle said
But fun fact: Slow people cause more problems at intersections due to being slow enough that people have time to 2nd guess & when people 2nd guess...

[Akzle]

i was so glad today to hear police pull over a rental car doing 50 in a 100km.

Then mortally disappointed that no fuken fringe issued.

Then that 4 cop cars spent a half hour (and counting) getting some bitches fucking iphone back.

Safer communities together!

[98tls]

Not so tough today the boys n blue,2 hours 20 up to Christchurch then 2.35 back home and not one seen,was the normal amount of fucked 4wds about to but came across em at the right times.Coppers must have been busy dealing with shitheads beating up the mrs n kids.

[TheDemonLord]

and then you have to realise that everything that was done in germany between 1933 - 1945 was legal and you might want to think about this comment again.

a lawmaker makes laws, but we as people might want to think about a. is it moral and ethical (and yeah moral and ethical is something that might want to be discussed further) and b. enforceable - do we need to employ a few more hundred donuts eaters that are essentially civilian losers to write tickets? , c. to the betterment of the community (is it good to throw someone in prison for years on end for a bag of weed...cost of upkeep just to prevent someone from getting stoned?), d. does it criminalise us? i.e. drive 1.5 km over a hundred while going down on a hill and you are a criminal if caught, you are also a criminal if a copper stops you on a motorway going fifty and you become a danger to society for slow driving.

Just use yer brains instead of just spouting feel good nonsense of how one is such a pillar of the community and the other is such a dreg.

GODWIN!

/thread over

[scumdog]

yours. you misjudged.
is that not fucking obvious?

Never.

Not in KB world.

[scumdog]

This thread title should be changed to:

"The whiney, whingy snot-nose cry-babies" thread.:rolleyes:

[Akzle]

This thread title should be changed to:

"The whiney, whingy snot-nose cry-babies" thread.:rolleyes:

well, now that youre here...

[rastuscat]

A case law from way back decided that people are entitled to expect other people to be driving at or about the speed limit. This is when they are making a judgement as to when it's safe to pull out.

It's difficult (human error) to judge the speed of an oncoming motorcycle, due to the small frontal appearance, and the looming effect.

It's human weaknesses that cause some crashes. We can't change that. Even Azkle and Skoober have such psychological weaknesses, given the assumption that they are human. It's called being human.

Assuming that they are, of course.

[Akzle]

A case law from way back decided that people are entitled to expect other people to be driving at or about the speed limit. This is when they are making a judgement as to when it's safe to pull out.

It's difficult (human error) to judge the speed of an oncoming motorcycle, due to the small frontal appearance, and the looming effect.

It's human weaknesses that cause some crashes. We can't change that. Even Azkle and Skoober have such psychological weaknesses, given the assumption that they are human. It's called being human.

Assuming that they are, of course.

but some how we are not 'entitled to expect' that someone else wont drive into us, speed aside?

[husaberg]

but some how we are not 'entitled to expect' that someone else wont drive into us, speed aside?

I certainly wouldn't expect that someone wouldn't drive into you, neither should you.
I say this without regard to your propensity to deliver sermons on all manner of things, things to which you, have neither the insight, understanding or ability to offer anything impartial or indeed useful.

[pritch]

I don't know if it's an international thing,
.

Well seriously, that's a worry, as a "professional" in the field you should know. It's covered on the British Motorcycle Police handbook, you should get a copy and read it.

People who have had any particular type of accident are statistically more likely to have a similar accident because they are all good drivers and seeing no need to improve they carry on, same ol' same ol'.

Same as here.

[rastuscat]

[QUOTE=]It's covered on the British Motorcycle Police handbook, you should get a copy and read it.[QUOTE]

Already read it. I don't claim to be an expert just from reading a book. I'm sure not an expert on international psychology.

I agree entirely with your point though. The it won't happen to me so why should I change crew are a goodly part of our problem.

[Edbear]

.

Well seriously, that's a worry, as a "professional" in the field you should know. It's covered on the British Motorcycle Police handbook, you should get a copy and read it.

People who have had any particular type of accident are statistically more
likely to have a similar accident because they are all good drivers and seeing no need to improve they carry on, same ol' same ol'.

Same as here.


[QUOTE=]It's covered on the British Motorcycle Police handbook, you should get a copy and read it.[QUOTE]

Already read it. I don't claim to be an expert just from reading a book. I'm sure not an expert on international psychology.

I agree entirely with your point though. The it won't happen to me so why should I change crew are a goodly part of our problem.

After my accident, I would hope to defy those statistics.

[swbarnett]

On that basis, we should also stop chasing murderers, as they only cause 40 to 60 victims per year.
Surely you can't be that dumb?

Let me spell out something that should be your bread and butter (although you may be ignorant of this given your post above). A murderer has already committed a fatal act against another person. The average motorist hasn't even come close. To lump the two together really illustrates what you think about those you are sworn to serve.

And while we're on the subject of numbers - if all the dollars that were uselessly put into supposedly combating so-called road carnage were diverted into, say, cancer research and it's ilk there would be a real, measurable, reduction in suffering way in excess of the annual road toll. Why the hell do we become so damn important to you just because we make that magic transition from foot to wheel?

[husaberg]

Surely you can't be that dumb?

Let me spell out something that should be your bread and butter (although you may be ignorant of this given your post above). A murderer has already committed a fatal act against another person. The average motorist hasn't even come close. To lump the two together really illustrates what you think about those you are sworn to serve.

And while we're on the subject of numbers - if all the dollars that were uselessly put into supposedly combating so-called road carnage were diverted into, say, cancer research and it's ilk there would be a real, measurable, reduction in suffering way in excess of the annual road toll. Why the hell do we become so damn important to you just because we make that magic transition from foot to wheel?

bump................Note the passengers and children
307090
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-deaths/toll.html

[R650R]

Surely you can't be that dumb?

Let me spell out something that should be your bread and butter (although you may be ignorant of this given your post above). A murderer has already committed a fatal act against another person. The average motorist hasn't even come close. To lump the two together really illustrates what you think about those you are sworn to serve.

And while we're on the subject of numbers - if all the dollars that were uselessly put into supposedly combating so-called road carnage were diverted into, say, cancer research and it's ilk there would be a real, measurable, reduction in suffering way in excess of the annual road toll. Why the hell do we become so damn important to you just because we make that magic transition from foot to wheel?

Actually the average motorist has come very close to killing, the less than average have killed and then there's the way less than average that have killed more than once... there's plenty of whining in here everyday to support how close average joe comes to killing someone daily on the roads....

Cancer is an industry that sucks up donated money like nothing else with little to show for it. Only 3% of victims ever get 100% remmision, the rest just die a bit later if their lucky or die earlier due to the side effects of the cancer drugs... so maybe we should divert cancer funds into a blue ribbon day cause and everyone could donate to road policing.... as although none of us would like to admit it, their 'treatment programme' is resulting in less deaths per year, way more successful thanh the cancer industry....
And maybe just maybe the guy who discovers the cure to cancer doesn't get liked in a road accident before he makes the discovery :)

[rastuscat]

Surely you can't be that dumb?

Let me spell out something that should be your bread and butter (although you may be ignorant of this given your post above). A murderer has already committed a fatal act against another person. The average motorist hasn't even come close. To lump the two together really illustrates what you think about those you are sworn to serve.

And while we're on the subject of numbers - if all the dollars that were uselessly put into supposedly combating so-called road carnage were diverted into, say, cancer research and it's ilk there would be a real, measurable, reduction in suffering way in excess of the annual road toll. Why the hell do we become so damn important to you just because we make that magic transition from foot to wheel?

Read the whole comment. I pointed out that figure merely to dispute the comment it was quoted against. Still, selective quoting is a skill you've clearly mastered, so crack on.

Prevention is a thankless task. It's hard to measure how many crashes have been prevented. And if you count the number of crashes, it's hard to say what led to increases or decreases.

It's unlikely that we'll agree, so let's not bother trying.

[Scuba_Steve]

so maybe we should divert cancer funds into a blue ribbon day cause and everyone could donate to road policing.... as although none of us would like to admit it, their 'treatment programme' is resulting in less deaths per year, way more successful thanh the cancer industry....

:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme:rofl::rof l::rofl: I'm sorry what!?
If we were talking about the motor vehicle R&D you'd have a point but you're trying to claim the cops are doing it... Next you'll be telling us the Nigerian scammers save people from rubella :facepalm:

[swbarnett]

Actually the average motorist has come very close to killing,
Bullshit. Until you produce some hard figures anecdotal evidence means nothing.


there's plenty of whining in here everyday to support how close average joe comes to killing someone daily on the roads....
This is a view distorted by the number of kms driven every day. I honestly believe that the average "joe" is a better driver than some would have us believe.


Cancer is an industry that sucks up donated money like nothing else with little to show for it. Only 3% of victims ever get 100% remmision, the rest just die a bit later if their lucky or die earlier due to the side effects of the cancer drugs...
Pick another research program then. Or maybe if the money went to something like Kids Can we'd have a better adjusted and educated population that would actually be able to think properly.


so maybe we should divert cancer funds into a blue ribbon day cause and everyone could donate to road policing.... as although none of us would like to admit it, their 'treatment programme' is resulting in less deaths per year, way more successful than the cancer industry....
Have you seen this years figures (post #817) the deaths are up by 14% so far this year with another week to go.

[swbarnett]

Read the whole comment. I pointed out that figure merely to dispute the comment it was quoted against.
You compared the average motorist directly to a murderer. That, in my book, just goes to show your poor attitude towards the average motorist. And here was I thinking you were one of the good ones.


It's hard to measure how many crashes have been prevented. And if you count the number of crashes, it's hard to say what led to increases or decreases.
Which is exactly the point. You and your bosses have absolutely no basis to claim that what you're doing is working. Stop treating those of us that are doing no harm to anyone like common criminals.


It's unlikely that we'll agree, so let's not bother trying.
Perhaps if you understood more of what it is to be human then you'd be able to accept that a certain level of carnage in life (not just on the roads) is a necessary part of living. Living is what's important, not existing in absolute safety.

[nzspokes]

This is a view distorted by the number of kms driven every day. I honestly believe that the average "joe" is a better driver than some would have us believe.


What a load of crap. You have a Rose tinted visor on your helmet?

[R650R]

Bullshit. Until you produce some hard figures anecdotal evidence means nothing.


The level of hysteria with the associated posts tends to swing them more to hard evidence than 'anecdotal'....

[R650R]

.

Well seriously, that's a worry, as a "professional" in the field you should know. It's covered on the British Motorcycle Police handbook, you should get a copy and read it.

People who have had any particular type of accident are statistically more likely to have a similar accident because they are all good drivers and seeing no need to improve they carry on, same ol' same ol'.

Same as here.

That sounds like indoctrination propaganda rather than fact.
More like SOME people who have accidents are more likely to have another accident. Its pretty hard to go through life not having an accident or two at one stage.

[BlackSheepLogic]

This is a view distorted by the number of kms driven every day. I honestly believe that the average "joe" is a better driver than some would have us believe

I have lived in several countries and there's a recurrent theme where the locals believe most drivers on the road are crap and incurious to other users. In the states I've heard on talk back how good NZ drivers were compared to "us" crappy drivers in the states.

My view is that NZ drivers are on the whole are good but I do find some quite oblivious to what's going on around, incurious using the right most lanes holding up traffic or in making room/ giving way to others. But this is a small number of motorists. Multi-lane roundabouts and lane selection at the lights tends to bring the worst out in some drivers but it's a small minority of the road users I see when out with the bike.

As a class of road users I see mopeds (50cc scooters) exhibiting some of the most atrocious behavior.

[R650R]

Fatigue stops.... I'm tempted to start a whole diff thread about it... should just include the word speed in the title hehe....

But yesterday cranking up the Wairoa rd and holy hell we've got the twelve horsemen of the apocalypse blocking the road at Raupunga.
Breath test sir, yes no problem with that.... yada yada yada we're running a fatigue stop here, coffee and donuts over there....
He was looking a bit sad to start with and then even more lost when I said you've got to be joking mate, only just left Napier (74km) see you later I'm gone.
At least the mobile chase unit didn't mind me cranking up the hill towards there about 1km earlier with my knee just about on the deck....

But any way as I get closer to Wairoa I encounter several unusual streams of traffic that doesn't fit the pattern for this road even in holiday times. I reckoned they were caused by the fatigue stop and once on lemming decided it was time to leave everyone else left at same time. But each group had a slow driver at front and everyone seemed switched off from overtaking mode but were drawn into the group convoy tailgating mode.
Which makes it difficult for someone such as me catching up to effect a safe over take to get ahead of the club 80k lemming society...
Now the cops crow on about slow drivers holding people up but there their own checkpoints creating same conditions. And this on a road that transit is spending big bucks on to expand overtaking chances.
Thoughts....

[R650R]

:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme:rofl::rof l::rofl: I'm sorry what!?
If we were talking about the motor vehicle R&D you'd have a point but you're trying to claim the cops are doing it... Next you'll be telling us the Nigerian scammers save people from rubella :facepalm:

I hate to admit it but if you look at the culture shift in the last 10-15 years with speed is has to have had an effect. A mate in the fire service reckons they are going to much less serious crashes on SH5 than they used to and talking to the cops they say to him they are still catching people doing high speed but not as many as before. I tried to argue the road has improved greatly but think they are right actually. Its still a lesser enforced route but the cop no go zones are gone and you can seriously expect them up there at any time these days. I definitely don't ride as silly as I used to over there because of it, they have sussed out too many good hiding spots now.

[oneofsix]

Fatigue stops.... I'm tempted to start a whole diff thread about it... should just include the word speed in the title hehe....

But yesterday cranking up the Wairoa rd and holy hell we've got the twelve horsemen of the apocalypse blocking the road at Raupunga.
Breath test sir, yes no problem with that.... yada yada yada we're running a fatigue stop here, coffee and donuts over there....
He was looking a bit sad to start with and then even more lost when I said you've got to be joking mate, only just left Napier (74km) see you later I'm gone.
At least the mobile chase unit didn't mind me cranking up the hill towards there about 1km earlier with my knee just about on the deck....

But any way as I get closer to Wairoa I encounter several unusual streams of traffic that doesn't fit the pattern for this road even in holiday times. I reckoned they were caused by the fatigue stop and once on lemming decided it was time to leave everyone else left at same time. But each group had a slow driver at front and everyone seemed switched off from overtaking mode but were drawn into the group convoy tailgating mode.
Which makes it difficult for someone such as me catching up to effect a safe over take to get ahead of the club 80k lemming society...
Now the cops crow on about slow drivers holding people up but there their own checkpoints creating same conditions. And this on a road that transit is spending big bucks on to expand overtaking chances.
Thoughts....

I think you are drawing a long bow there dude. I think everyone has caught up with the slow driver and been held up like you rather than having put up with following the slow driver from leaving the fatigue stop. Once they do get past the first slow driver they eventually catch up with the next and the same happens again. Eventually frustration gets to someone and bad stuff happens, not all of it on the road. If they aren't in a hurry, why cant they just pull off the road every quarter hour and let the traffic flow?

[husaberg]

I think you are drawing a long bow there dude. I think everyone has caught up with the slow driver and been held up like you rather than having put up with following the slow driver from leaving the fatigue stop. Once they do get past the first slow driver they eventually catch up with the next and the same happens again. Eventually frustration gets to someone and bad stuff happens, not all of it on the road. If they aren't in a hurry, why cant they just pull off the road every quarter hour and let the traffic flow?

The reason they can't pull over and let people pass or at least slow down and indicate that others can pass? is that they are totally oblivious to the situation, which begs the question
Do they use their mirrors and how much do they take in.
I remember they used to sell the anti frustration devises that made noise effects, so one could launch missile and machine gun attacks on the frustrating drivers, maybe the police should hand out some of those at the traffic stops it would likely be great PR and wouldn't cost bugger all.

[Ocean1]

I remember they used to sell the anti frustration devises that made noise effects, so one could launch missile and machine gun attacks on the frustrating drivers, maybe the police should hand out some of those at the traffic stops it would likely be great PR and wouldn't cost bugger all.

A most excellent scheme.

On a similar note; what ever happened to those things that plugged into your stereo and made noises like your corolla was a Maserati / Lotus / Ferrari / Mustang?

[GrayWolf]

The reason they can't pull over and let people pass or at least slow down and indicate that others can pass? is that they are totally oblivious to the situation, which begs the question
Do they use their mirrors and how much do they take in.
I remember they used to sell the anti frustration devises that made noise effects, so one could launch missile and machine gun attacks on the frustrating drivers, maybe the police should hand out some of those at the traffic stops it would likely be great PR and wouldn't cost bugger all.

I think it more likely comes down the what MrBarnett described as the 'human condition' {carnage is going to happen}.. Like many I commute the
hutt valley motorway. The only real difference for me is I work erratic start/finish times on a daily basis, and get to 'see' most of the driving habits of different 'time zones' on the road.
I frequently end up underpassing [overtake on the left} single cars or vans who are just sitting in the right lane at XXXkph. I have a bright halogen headlight {as we all do} and a couple of fairly powerful CREE led spot/fog lamps.. these 'including going to main beam' do absolutely nothing to 'wake up' said driver to pull left. I mostly shake my head as I pass them, they frequently react with a 'hand signal' or the I'm not looking so he doesnt exist stare to the front. They know I'm there, they just dont see 'WHY' they should move left, after all they are in the 'fast lane' and there's no one in front of them. {correct, we are all stuck befrigginhind them}.

Whether it's an educational issue, or simply a bloody 'IQ level' thing, some people just either simply have a massive sense of entitlement, or, are truly so dense that even common sense is a concept they cannot grasp.
My job in the respect of seeing how dumb people can be, is probably similar to out resident 'Popo',
Here's a classic example,
On one of the lines we have several short tunnels, speed through these is 40kph, because the line has very tight curves and minimal [centimeters} clearance either side of the train.... only a few weeks ago, one twat, ran out of the tunnel entrance {caught on the forward camera} with literally half a second to spare. I will leave to your imaginations what a very large object traveling at 40kph will do to you when you are sandwiched between it and a solid brick wall. As the entrance is on a curve visibility is reduced, and obviously you have the 'light into dark effect' on the human eye. Anyone who uses the johnsonville line will know, there is no room for anything either side on most of it, as it's cut into the side of the hills. But? yup, we'll use it as a pedestrian 'short cut'.

So as much as I also can get frustrated at the way things are done by TPB, I can also understand why, because seriously folks, there really are people out there who to quote 'full metal jacket' were "cheated, as the best bit of them ran down the crack of their mothers ass, and ended up as a stain on the sheet"

[husaberg]

A most excellent scheme.

On a similar note; what ever happened to those things that plugged into your stereo and made noises like your corolla was a Maserati / Lotus / Ferrari / Mustang?
these are the ones I remember
http://x-entertainment.com/updates/2006/02/20/the-revenger/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1989-Working-Revenger-II-Noise-Maker-8-Sound-Effects-/111555423325?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0
Why don't they sell something like them anymore? they were popular at the time.
307125




Whether it's an educational issue, or simply a bloody 'IQ level' thing, some people just either simply have a massive sense of entitlement, or, are truly so dense that even common sense is a concept they cannot grasp.
My job in the respect of seeing how dumb people can be, is probably similar to out resident 'Popo',


Some people are bloody inconsiderate and I believe bloody oblivious and or both, then again I guess thay could be distracted by whining and or fighting kids too. Some are just stupid and lazy.

[scumdog]

But any way as I get closer to Wairoa I encounter several unusual streams of traffic that doesn't fit the pattern for this road even in holiday times. I reckoned they were caused by the fatigue stop and once on lemming decided it was time to leave everyone else left at same time.
Thoughts....

My thoughts?

You're just taking a wild guess and using an incident that (somehow) annoyed you to blame for something that in all likelihood has no link with said earlier incident.

[haydes55]

My thoughts?



You're just taking a wild guess and using an incident that (somehow) annoyed you to blame for something that in all likelihood has no link with said earlier incident.


One could say the same thing about speed limits.

[swbarnett]

What a load of crap. You have a Rose tinted visor on your helmet?
I can only talk from my own experience but the number of "bad" drivers I see is far, far outweighed by those that are not worthy of comment because they drive in a sensible manner that doesn't show up on my radar. Yes, there are bad apples out there but they are in the minority.

I used to see a lot more bad drivers than I do now. Then I realised that this was because I was looking for them and completely ignoring the good ones. One's perception of one's environment is largely governed by one's pre-conceptions. Expect bad drivers and that's what you'll see. Expect good drivers and that's what you'll see. Even the "near" misses that I have had aren't nearly as bad as I used to make out.

[swbarnett]

The level of hysteria with the associated posts tends to swing them more to hard evidence than 'anecdotal'....
You do realise that hysteria and hard evidence are polar opposites? It goes more to the state of mind of the hysterical than to the validity of the 'evidence'. All of which is anecdotal.

[scumdog]

One could say the same thing about speed limits.


The difference being: People exceeding the speed limits don't annoy me...

[Ocean1]

these are the ones I remember
http://x-entertainment.com/updates/2006/02/20/the-revenger/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1989-Working-Revenger-II-Noise-Maker-8-Sound-Effects-/111555423325?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0
Why don't they sell something like them anymore? they were popular at the time.
307125.

I had more in mind a complete set of visibly obvious ordnance, chain gun on the bonnet, mortar pods on the roof etc, all articulated for aiming and with appropriate soundtracks.

Would make the morning commute far more interesting.

I know just the special effects man for the job...

[R650R]

I used to see a lot more bad drivers than I do now. Then I realised that this was because I was looking for them and completely ignoring the good ones. One's perception of one's environment is largely governed by one's pre-conceptions. Expect bad drivers and that's what you'll see. Expect good drivers and that's what you'll see. Even the "near" misses that I have had aren't nearly as bad as I used to make out.

That kinda hippy PC bullshit positive thought shit is what brought us great wonders like then 'drive social' ads, you don't work for the LTSA do you.....

No 'Serenity now' program is going to make other drivers better around you....

[R650R]

My thoughts?

You're just taking a wild guess and using an incident that (somehow) annoyed you to blame for something that in all likelihood has no link with said earlier incident.

Possibly but enough circumstantial evidence exists to table it before the kiwibiker judiciary to be debated in the jurors chambers :)

[R650R]

I remember they used to sell the anti frustration devises that made noise effects, so one could launch missile and machine gun attacks on the frustrating drivers, maybe the police should hand out some of those at the traffic stops it would likely be great PR and wouldn't cost bugger all.

Nothing to stop doing it in your head and making your own sound effects in the privacy of a fullface helmet.
Just remember when your wearing earplugs you may be making more noise than you think at the traffic lights.
Random motorists may be freaked out listening to you say " CHiiirrrrrrr brippppp TARGET acquired... beep beep beep LOCK obtained, launching missle MWahahaha... fuck.... whoops hello... *wave*" :)

307159

[rastuscat]

I for one don't believe we are any worse than other countries I've been in. And that's a few.

At times I can drive quite a while without seeing something that pisses me off.

If you drive around looking for it you'll find it. So stop looking. Less stress that way.

Unless you work with/for me. Then nail the feckers.

[caspernz]

I for one don't believe we are any worse than other countries I've been in. And that's a few.

At times I can drive quite a while without seeing something that pisses me off.

If you drive around looking for it you'll find it. So stop looking. Less stress that way.

Unless you work with/for me. Then nail the feckers.

Oh I don't think that's a fair assessment. The average kiwi driver is far more combative (call it arrogant if you will) than the average western European driver. And then when we start talking about fast lane behaviour, allowing others to merge or go in front to keep traffic flowing...oh boy, kiwi drivers are a long way behind. The main difference is the standard required to attain a drivers licence. And this is an assessment made by virtue of driving for a living on three continents.

But not stressing about what others do wrong is the key I'll fully agree with that, regardless of which country one is in.

[swbarnett]

That kinda hippy PC bullshit positive thought shit is what brought us great wonders like then 'drive social' ads,
I actually think that those ads are the best they've come up with yet. I agree with the sentiment (I know from personal experience it works - try being overtly courteous and see how much better you feel) but I don't think the ads will work as those that need it won't listen.


you don't work for the LTSA do you.....
Not in a million years.


No 'Serenity now' program is going to make other drivers better around you....
No, it won't. But it will help you see that they're not as bad as you thought they were.

I used to rant on endlessly to my wife about all the dick-heads I would see every day. Then I realised that she (also on a bike) didn't see nearly the same number of "bad" drivers that I did. Then I realised it was simply because she doesn't sweat the small stuff. Since then my riding (even in Auckland) has been increasingly more enjoyable.

[rastuscat]

Oh I don't think that's a fair assessment. The average kiwi driver is far more combative (call it arrogant if you will) than the average western European driver. And then when we start talking about fast lane behaviour, allowing others to merge or go in front to keep traffic flowing...oh boy, kiwi drivers are a long way behind. The main difference is the standard required to attain a drivers licence. And this is an assessment made by virtue of driving for a living on three continents.

But not stressing about what others do wrong is the key I'll fully agree with that, regardless of which country one is in.

It's the basic driving things that piss me off most. Like turning into the correct lane at multi lane junctions. More people do it wrong than right. And following too closely. And not indicating turns.

Then if we write tickets for it, we get slated as road nazi snake bastards. :Police:

[Scuba_Steve]

It's the basic driving things that piss me off most. Like turning into the correct lane at multi lane junctions. More people do it wrong than right. And following too closely. And not indicating turns.

Then if we write tickets for it, we get slated as road nazi snake bastards. :Police:

Not turning into correct lane is mostly through ignorance, they should be educated not extorted. Following too closely is on the rise as a result of the speed scam & especially with gang members sitting on passing lanes (course these gang members will also ignore bad driving like "tailgating"). Not indicating yea go right ahead ticket them... but do it legally for once ay

[haydes55]

It's the basic driving things that piss me off most. Like turning into the correct lane at multi lane junctions. More people do it wrong than right. And following too closely. And not indicating turns.

Then if we write tickets for it, we get slated as road nazi snake bastards. :Police:


No, I'd buy you donuts and praise you.

Update on road deaths this holiday season.

Just before the official holiday period begins, 4 dead from poor driving skills or distraction (u turn in front of a log truck).

1 person electrocuted after 2 cars collide on a gravel road (speed was not a factor. It's gravel, they were going too fast for their visibility and braking ability for that corner).

A woman died after a campervan pulled out of an intersection in front of a car.... You can't ticket stupid.

A man died after crashing into a milk tanker....

Another man died in his rental, wrong side of the road, hit an elderly couple head on.

Common theme here... Stupidity, poor judgement, lack of skill. These idiots will kill themselves by looking down a barrel of a gun and pulling the trigger sooner or later anyway.... Let them have their well deserved Darwin awards.

[TheDemonLord]

On the way back to Auckers in my Cage - I had to *555 someone who seemed to think that crossing the centreline on blind corners was a good idea

[Akzle]

On the way back to Auckers in my Cage - I had to *555 someone who seemed to think that crossing the centreline on blind corners was a good idea

depends how blind you consider blind.

I had someone make the complaint of me, so i stopped mid corner, got them to get into the driver seat and confirm how far they could actually see.

They were surprised that there was more road than the car length ahead of the vehicle.

Thankfully, 9 times in 10 the cops will ignore your facist gold* 555 shit.

[caspernz]

It's the basic driving things that piss me off most. Like turning into the correct lane at multi lane junctions. More people do it wrong than right. And following too closely. And not indicating turns.

Then if we write tickets for it, we get slated as road nazi snake bastards. :Police:

Same here. You'll never be every motorists' friend anyway, so if all the basic offences (some of which you mentioned above) were also ticketed with the same enthusiasm from time to time...it might go some way to remove the perception that speed is all the HP boys'n'gals look for.

[FJRider]

depends how blind you consider blind.



On one of my local roads ...

http://www.odt.co.nz/your-town/your-town/133938/focus-drivers-crossing-centre-line

[TheDemonLord]

depends how blind you consider blind.

I had someone make the complaint of me, so i stopped mid corner, got them to get into the driver seat and confirm how far they could actually see.

They were surprised that there was more road than the car length ahead of the vehicle.

Thankfully, 9 times in 10 the cops will ignore your facist gold* 555 shit.

Blind as in - Napier - Taupo road, multiple corners, all right handers, and more than half his vehicle was across the Centreline.

I don't mind people cutting corners when you can see the exit - but this guy did it regardless.

[Akzle]

Blind as in - Napier - Taupo road, multiple corners, all right handers, and more than half his vehicle was across the Centreline.

I don't mind people cutting corners when you can see the exit - but this guy did it regardless.

meh. Your judgement call.
Wasnt a mitsi magna was it...

I got tooted at (yes, me!) for passing a dozen cars around a corner, it was either the bryndys or topuni, big fuck off sweepers where you can see for literally a kilometer. 'fuck you bitch arse aucklander' i thought.

I dont trust anyone elses judgement. For all i know (didnt have me scanner on) that cunt 555d me, because s/he was an ignorant bitch.
...I dont trust anyone elses judgement.

[BigAl]

No, I'd buy you donuts and praise you.

Update on road deaths this holiday season.

Just before the official holiday period begins, 4 dead from poor driving skills or distraction (u turn in front of a log truck).

1 person electrocuted after 2 cars collide on a gravel road (speed was not a factor. It's gravel, they were going too fast for their visibility and braking ability for that corner).

A woman died after a campervan pulled out of an intersection in front of a car.... You can't ticket stupid.

A man died after crashing into a milk tanker....

Another man died in his rental, wrong side of the road, hit an elderly couple head on.

Common theme here... Stupidity, poor judgement, lack of skill. These idiots will kill themselves by looking down a barrel of a gun and pulling the trigger sooner or later anyway.... Let them have their well deserved Darwin awards.

Yep no sign of being over the speed limit in these cases.

Passed a tractor doing about 50kph on sh1 at karopiro yesterday, who had a couple of kays of cars behind him, was all on when the passing lane came up.
These are the sort of drivers that should be ticketed for not pulling over as there were plenty of places to do so safely.

[rastuscat]

Not turning into correct lane is mostly through ignorance, they should be educated not extorted.

From time to time we have a campaign on lane turning. Almost everyone we stop for it says they knew the rule, they just didn't think to apply it.

Virtually everyone also says it was the first time they had ever not done it correctly, surprise, surprise.

One bloke I stopped and educated (hand him a brochure with all the right diagrams, explained the diagrams), I caught again a few days later doing exactly the same thing. Is it my fail for not educating him properly? Or is it his fault for not getting it right?

There's only so much education can do, Skoober.

[scumdog]

meh. Your judgement call.
Wasnt a mitsi magna was it...

I got tooted at (yes, me!) for passing a dozen cars around a corner, it was either the bryndys or topuni, big fuck off sweepers where you can see for literally a kilometer. 'fuck you bitch arse aucklander' i thought.

I dont trust anyone elses judgement. For all i know (didnt have me scanner on) that cunt 555d me, because s/he was an ignorant bitch.
...I dont trust anyone elses judgement.

Cemeteries is full of idjist that 'could see for literally a kilometer' that the road was clear.

Fuckin' retard idea passing a dozen cars on one corner.

Unless you passed them as they went the other way.

[scumdog]

1 person electrocuted after 2 cars collide on a gravel road (speed was not a factor. It's gravel, they were going too fast for their visibility and braking ability for that corner).



Speed WAS a factor - they drove too fast for their ability.

[rastuscat]

Same here. You'll never be every motorists' friend anyway, so if all the basic offences (some of which you mentioned above) were also ticketed with the same enthusiasm from time to time...it might go some way to remove the perception that speed is all the HP boys'n'gals look for.

I'm not an HP Popo, and speed isn't my thing. I spend far too much time on here defending our position on speed when I actually don't do much of it. Our bikes don't have radars.

Just to repeat myself, we are about cellphones, seatbelts, traffic lights and stop signs. And the odd other thing. We do speed stuff with a laser on the odd occasion (a.k.a. The Death Ray), or when some klutz doesn't see us in the rear view mirror and we pursuit check them at speed.

[Scuba_Steve]

From time to time we have a campaign on lane turning. Almost everyone we stop for it says they knew the rule, they just didn't think to apply it.

Virtually everyone also says it was the first time they had ever not done it correctly, surprise, surprise.

One bloke I stopped and educated (hand him a brochure with all the right diagrams, explained the diagrams), I caught again a few days later doing exactly the same thing. Is it my fail for not educating him properly? Or is it his fault for not getting it right?

There's only so much education can do, Skoober.

hmm, thought it was ignorance like the "keep left" which we see even on here so many are ignorant of... Still can't say that one [lane turning] bothers me too much; I sometimes get toots as I pull into the lane besides them or on occasion some brilliant "oh shit" faces but all in all I'm not to bothered by it... Now keeping left, THAT'S my pet peeve!

Oh & it is definitely his fault & if you were gonna legally ticket him I'd say go for it if he's affecting others but as I know you'd just run the extortion (probably cause you don't know the crimes you're committing or any other way) I can't say it's bad enough he needs to be financially raped for

[haydes55]

Speed WAS a factor - they drove too fast for their ability.


But they weren't above the speed limit. So they wouldn't get a ticket for speeding, therefore speed isn't a factor. That's how the reporting system seems to work. Remove speed limits, shift the onus of responsibility of safe speed onto those people who would die/get injured, if they fuck it up. If you don't know a safe speed for the patch of road in front of you, you are incapable of operating a vehicle.

If you think speed kills, you don't know how to control your vehicle.

[rastuscat]

hmm, thought it was ignorance like the "keep left" which we see even on here so many are ignorant of... Still can't say that one [lane turning] bothers me too much; I sometimes get toots as I pull into the lane besides them or on occasion some brilliant "oh shit" faces but all in all I'm not to bothered by it... Now keeping left, THAT'S my pet peeve!

Oh & it is definitely his fault & if you were gonna legally ticket him I'd say go for it if he's affecting others but as I know you'd just run the extortion (probably cause you don't know the crimes you're committing or any other way) I can't say it's bad enough he needs to be financially raped for

I have a personal policy on it. If he does it and nobody is effected, it gets warned.

But if he pisses someone else off, it's ticket time.

[Akzle]

Cemeteries is full of idjist that 'could see for literally a kilometer' that the road was clear.

Fuckin' retard idea passing a dozen cars on one corner.


1- no.

2- jesus, you shouldnt be allowed to drive.

[R650R]

Damn here's a Darwin candidate adding to Rastus' side of the argument. This muppett must have been flying to leave 33m of braking marks then big impact.
This is the last lot of twisties before you drop down on to the tongoio/whirinaki flats by the walkway carpark, plenty of signage to say whats coming up...
Trucks have gone over the barriers here from brake failure but pretty rare for cars to crash in this spot...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503462&objectid=11379804

https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-39.3138268,176.8834664,216m/data=!3m1!1e3

[pritch]

Over the Christmas break I drove to the greater Auckland area and back. Generally the driving wasn't too bad. I had gone north on the 23rd hoping to miss the rush, saw not one single :Police: either with my eyes or the detector. The trip back was not quite so lonely. Two HP cars on the Hamiltton bypass, then saw a camera car and thought that might be it for a while but there was an HP car hidden in shrubbery about 1k further on.

The only two cars that pissed me off both did the same thing, used a passing lane to overtake then sat in the passing lane until I made my displeasure known.
The horn in the Subaru lacks the authority of the Nautilus on the bike, maybe I can get a pair of airhorns for my birthday?

[_Shrek_]

Q for the :Police: if you're handing out tickets for speed (1k over) what are you doing about the ones who are doing 70 in the 100k zone & slower on the corners & yellow lines with over 11 cars following & not pulling over on a slow lane?.... glad I was on a bike yesterday... also noted as I went past a lot of very pissed off drivers as it was above 30c

[Berg]

Q for the :Police: if you're handing out tickets for speed (1k over) what are you doing about the ones who are doing 70 in the 100k zone & slower on the corners & yellow lines with over 11 cars following & not pulling over on a slow lane?.... glad I was on a bike yesterday... also noted as I went past a lot of very pissed off drivers as it was above 30c
Both tickets and warnings issued by me up until I finished for Xmas and boy oh boy did I get given my pedigree by most I stopped. Apparently many of them have decided they are self imposed speed restrictors, ensuring others don't speed even though their own speedos are reading up to 10kph fast.
Problem is, everybody you stop for committing a driving offence is "normally" the best driver in the world, has never done that before or has the perfect excuse for their behavior. Stopped and warned (written warning) a little old lady who had failed to indicate at a roundabout. Apparently, according to her, she "normally" indicates but today she was distracted by something on the radio. I call bullshit! I bet she never fucking indicates and she got the lecture that if something on the radio has distracted her enough to forget about driving 101 maybe she should give up driving. Apparently I may have a complaint coming my way for questioning her "impeccable" driving.
Pet hate while on holiday, assholes with 4 or 5 bikes hanging off a towbar mount. Obscured indicators, tail lights, brakes lights and number plates. Get roof mounts, rear lightbars and plate or a trailer people!

[rastuscat]

Q for the :Police: if you're handing out tickets for speed (1k over) what are you doing about the ones who are doing 70 in the 100k zone & slower on the corners & yellow lines with over 11 cars following & not pulling over on a slow lane?.... glad I was on a bike yesterday... also noted as I went past a lot of very pissed off drivers as it was above 30c

Now THERE's a can of worms question from an enforcement point of view.

The relevant rule is Section 2.1(2) of the Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004.

It says
[INDENT]
(2)If a driver's speed, when driving, is such as to impede the normal and reasonable flow of traffic, that driver must, as soon as is reasonably practicable, move the vehicle as far as practicable to the left side of the roadway when this is necessary to allow following traffic to pass.[INDENT]

Right, that's the rule. Now, how the hell do we enforce it.

Say I'm sitting at the side of the road eating donuts on my troll bike when I see a line of 11 cars coming toward me, doing say 70, in a 100 kmh area. Before I can take enforcement action I'd need to know how long they had been like that for, how many opportunities they have had for the lead car to pull over as required, whether in fact it was the second car which was the problem for not overtaking when the chance was there. The third vehicle too, and the fourth. Right down to the back few. What say the guy in car 2, 3, 4 et al are happy to be doing 70........who is the problem?

Say the first four are all travelling together, to the Summer Old Age Pension Big Day Out, featuring Jerry and the Pacemakers. Sponsored by the manufacturer of the Pacemakers, incidentally. I'd need to deal with all four.

See, it's not as simple as it sounds. Potentially, and from my experience, it's the second car in those lines that deserves the ticket most, as they have had plenty of opportunities to pass, and haven't done so.

Okay, let's put me at number 5 in the line of 11 cars. Then I'm in a far better position to see what the problem is, as I've watched the situation unfold over some distance, and have some real idea what's happening.

But say I was travelling the other way, and saw the 11 going past me in the other direction. How could I address all those issues with a glance at the cars going the opposite way to me. Then if I did decide to do something, I'd be U-turning behind number 11, and forcing them all to let me past to get to number 1, who might not be the biggest problem.

Just hoping to make youse fullas aware that it ain't as easy as it sounds. Generally, I pull the first car over, allowing all the traffic to pass. Then I set them off to the Pacemakers Get Together with nobody behind them. Without a ticket.

Another wee point, is that it's often the older folk who are the slower ones. If you don't know the older person holding you up, you want them ticketed to death. But if that was your own grand mother, how would you like it dealt with?

Just a couple of things to think on.

[Akzle]

meanwhile we've had folk clocked at 140-240 kph on the new boring road to hamitown... With family in the car *gasp* shock horror


Not crashing, you understand, just travelling.

[Berries]

Another wee point, is that it's often the older folk who are the slower ones. If you don't know the older person holding you up, you want them ticketed to death. But if that was your own grand mother, how would you like it dealt with?
Shoot her.

[Scuba_Steve]

See, it's not as simple as it sounds. Potentially, and from my experience, it's the second car in those lines that deserves the ticket most, as they have had plenty of opportunities to pass, and haven't done so.


Got that right, then usually there's a diesel behind them who won't overtake because it's going to be push & shove to do so & everyone else behind them won't do it because members of you gang like to scam on passing lanes & for them to pass safety they'd have to make their needle point to a higher number than the sign on the side of the road; so the line gets bigger & bigger as everyone's too afraid to pass until someone "snaps", which of-course will probably happen at the wrong time

[caspernz]

There is another angle to "holding up traffic" and it's from the seat of a truck. So I'm 23m long, empty, and trucking back from say...New Plymouth. At each passing lane I indicate left, slow from my 88 kmh limited speed to about 75-80 to make it easier for the 5-10 cars behind me to scoot past. Now there's plenty of times that only one car will pull out to overtake. So after a few passing lanes of this, the same 5-10 cars just sit behind me...and we've gone down plenty of straight roads to make an overtake without the aid of a passing lane easily achievable. In the interests of safety, when I then get to a township or place where I can safely get the truck off the road, I pull over and the mixed reward is some toots and some abuse in the form of the middle finger...hey, it mostly happens during holiday periods, and no it doesn't surprise me. I just put it down to "townie" drivers not being confident enough on the big road :laugh:<_<

The paranoia about speed enforcement is part of this equation I'll admit.

[_Shrek_]

But if that was your own grand mother, how would you like it dealt with? Just a couple of things to think on.

both my grandmothers aren't here any more, but if they were, they'd be the ones getting the speeding tickets, my up bringing....:facepalm: & what was worse my old man was :ride: :Police: in the 60's

[neels]

Had the pleasure of being followed by a policeman for about 50k's the other day, the message has stuck because my main focus while being tailgated by said policeman was making sure my speed didn't exceed 100k, not so much because of the fine but because I wasn't in the mood for shagging around on the side of the road.

What this meant was on nice downhill bends coasting with no throttle applied, rather than looking at where I was going I was looking at the speedo and braking so I stayed under the magic number, lest I should creep a couple of k's over and die in a flaming crash.

Safer driving folks.

[TheDemonLord]

See, it's not as simple as it sounds. Potentially, and from my experience, it's the second car in those lines that deserves the ticket most, as they have had plenty of opportunities to pass, and haven't done so.

Okay, Devils Advocate time:

(before I start, I should point out that on the way back from Dannevegas, I encountered this situation heaps of times)

Do you think that the 1 Km Tolerance is going to help this situation?

A more in depth question is this:

We all know that overtaking is a higher risk move - it puts you into the opposing stream of traffic. The best overtake involves accelerating in your lane and minimising your Time Exposed to Danger. so a good overtaking move would be accelerating from 80 - 120 in your lane, pulling into the oncoming lane for the shortest possible time before resuming your travels at the law-abiding 100 kph (of course)

Next if we factor into this scenario that often the people that hold everyone up can generally do 100-110 kph on the nice straight bits of road where you have enough visibility to safely overtake (assuming of course that there isn't traffic coming the other way ruining every stretch of road where it would be possible to overtake - but that is another gripe) but can't for the life of them go round a corner or up a hill at anything resembling reasonable open road speed.

So now, we have Driver number 2 who doesn't want to get ticketed, sticking to the 1 kph tolerance, stuck behind someone going slow, but speeds up on any bit of road where an overtake could be possible to the point that overtaking with a 1 kph tolerance wouldn't be safe - so they decide not to overtake - How can you fault Driver number 2 for their actions whilst supporting the Company line?

For the record - I do often fault Driver number 2 for not overtaking where it is possible - I fault them as much as I fault the person who can't travel on the open road at the speed limit (conditions allowing) as the actions of Driver number 2 means driver number 3 either needs to overtake 2 cars, or Leap-frog (which is generally seen as an asshole move) and so doesn't overtake, then you get driver number 4, because of the actions of drivers 2 and 3 etc. ad infinatum ad nauseam.

I myself try and overtake as quick as possible to allow those behind me to also overtake, I often do this whilst playing a loose with the speed limit (to minimize my TED) but to come back to the point - The Police's Lower tolerance (be it 4 kph or 10) directly translates into people not overtaking when they should - And whilst I can see many of the technical difficulties you have raised with ticketing someone - I myself don't care, as many of the difficulties are IMHO a direct result of Police Policy.

[husaberg]

Okay, Devils Advocate time:

(before I start, I should point out that on the way back from Dannevegas, I encountered this situation heaps of times)

Do you think that the 1 Km Tolerance is going to help this situation?

A more in depth question is this:

We all know that overtaking is a higher risk move - it puts you into the opposing stream of traffic. The best overtake involves accelerating in your lane and minimising your Time Exposed to Danger. so a good overtaking move would be accelerating from 80 - 120 in your lane, pulling into the oncoming lane for the shortest possible time before resuming your travels at the law-abiding 100 kph (of course)

Next if we factor into this scenario that often the people that hold everyone up can generally do 100-110 kph on the nice straight bits of road where you have enough visibility to safely overtake (assuming of course that there isn't traffic coming the other way ruining every stretch of road where it would be possible to overtake - but that is another gripe) but can't for the life of them go round a corner or up a hill at anything resembling reasonable open road speed.

So now, we have Driver number 2 who doesn't want to get ticketed, sticking to the 1 kph tolerance, stuck behind someone going slow, but speeds up on any bit of road where an overtake could be possible to the point that overtaking with a 1 kph tolerance wouldn't be safe - so they decide not to overtake - How can you fault Driver number 2 for their actions whilst supporting the Company line?

For the record - I do often fault Driver number 2 for not overtaking where it is possible - I fault them as much as I fault the person who can't travel on the open road at the speed limit (conditions allowing) as the actions of Driver number 2 means driver number 3 either needs to overtake 2 cars, or Leap-frog (which is generally seen as an asshole move) and so doesn't overtake, then you get driver number 4, because of the actions of drivers 2 and 3 etc. ad infinatum ad nauseam.

I myself try and overtake as quick as possible to allow those behind me to also overtake, I often do this whilst playing a loose with the speed limit (to minimize my TED) but to come back to the point - The Police's Lower tolerance (be it 4 kph or 10) directly translates into people not overtaking when they should - And whilst I can see many of the technical difficulties you have raised with ticketing someone - I myself don't care, as many of the difficulties are IMHO a direct result of Police Policy.


Here is a notion, to over take you need to be able to see a clear area in front of you for about the distance of the passing move, plus 100 meters..... if you see a policeman and you will be unable to pass at the legal limit don't overtake.
Conversely if you don't see a policeman feel free to complete the overtaking manoeuvre at any speed you see fit.:bleh:

[Edbear]

Okay, Devils Advocate time:

(before I start, I should point out that on the way back from Dannevegas, I encountered this situation heaps of times)

Do you think that the 1 Km Tolerance is going to help this situation?

A more in depth question is this:

We all know that overtaking is a higher risk move - it puts you into the opposing stream of traffic. The best overtake involves accelerating in your lane and minimising your Time Exposed to Danger. so a good overtaking move would be accelerating from 80 - 120 in your lane, pulling into the oncoming lane for the shortest possible time before resuming your travels at the law-abiding 100 kph (of course)

Next if we factor into this scenario that often the people that hold everyone up can generally do 100-110 kph on the nice straight bits of road where you have enough visibility to safely overtake (assuming of course that there isn't traffic coming the other way ruining every stretch of road where it would be possible to overtake - but that is another gripe) but can't for the life of them go round a corner or up a hill at anything resembling reasonable open road speed.

So now, we have Driver number 2 who doesn't want to get ticketed, sticking to the 1 kph tolerance, stuck behind someone going slow, but speeds up on any bit of road where an overtake could be possible to the point that overtaking with a 1 kph tolerance wouldn't be safe - so they decide not to overtake - How can you fault Driver number 2 for their actions whilst supporting the Company line?

For the record - I do often fault Driver number 2 for not overtaking where it is possible - I fault them as much as I fault the person who can't travel on the open road at the speed limit (conditions allowing) as the actions of Driver number 2 means driver number 3 either needs to overtake 2 cars, or Leap-frog (which is generally seen as an asshole move) and so doesn't overtake, then you get driver number 4, because of the actions of drivers 2 and 3 etc. ad infinatum ad nauseam.

I myself try and overtake as quick as possible to allow those behind me to also overtake, I often do this whilst playing a loose with the speed limit (to minimize my TED) but to come back to the point - The Police's Lower tolerance (be it 4 kph or 10) directly translates into people not overtaking when they should - And whilst I can see many of the technical difficulties you have raised with ticketing someone - I myself don't care, as many of the difficulties are IMHO a direct result of Police Policy.

You make a valid point. On a passing lane l usually find I need to do between 120 -130 to safely overtake the leading car by the end of the lane. Once done I drop back to below the tolerance. That used to mean for me, 104 on the GPS but now it's 100. If I set the cruise control at 100km/h I will gradually pull ahead due to the other drivers constantly slowing down and being unable to maintain a steady speed.

I do think that there should be a leeway up to 120 on passing lanes. Just my opinion.

[unstuck]

You make a valid point. On a passing lane l usually find I need to do between 120 -130 to safely overtake the leading car by the end of the lane. Once done I drop back to below the tolerance. That used to mean for me, 104 on the GPS but now it's 100. If I set the cruise control at 100km/h I will gradually pull ahead due to the other drivers constantly slowing down and being unable to maintain a steady speed.

I do think that there should be a leeway up to 120 on passing lanes. Just my opinion.

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.:bleh:

[TheDemonLord]

Here is a notion, to over take you need to be able to see a clear area in front of you for about the distance of the passing move, plus 100 meters..... if you see a policeman and you will be unable to pass at the legal limit don't overtake.
Conversely if you don't see a policeman feel free to complete the overtaking manoeuvre at any speed you see fit.:bleh:

And what about vans parked off the road or the cop the comes round the corner when you are slowing down post overtake (cause jamming your brakes on after an overtake is a massive dick move) - I get your sentiments, but this is more about the mindset that Police policy has cultivated and the unwillingness of the NZ police to deal with the other side of the coin: people going slow for no reason, Caravans/horse floats/trailers and boats not pulling over left to let traffic pass

[R650R]

Both tickets and warnings issued by me up until I finished for Xmas and boy oh boy did I get given my pedigree by most I stopped. Apparently many of them have decided they are self imposed speed restrictors, ensuring others don't speed even though their own speedos are reading up to 10kph fast.


The same pricks like to pass trucks and then dance on the brake pedal to do the same thing... with potential lethal consequences for other innocent road users. How ever a tactical driving manoever usually results from that meaning a *555 call to report them is invalid...



Pet hate while on holiday, assholes with 4 or 5 bikes hanging off a towbar mount. Obscured indicators, tail lights, brakes lights and number plates. Get roof mounts, rear lightbars and plate or a trailer people!

Don't be shy about ticketing them, there has been ample publicity about this through the bike clubs and it seems the flasher the SUV the more less likely they are bothered with a plate and more likely to be crap overtakers....
Mine goes in the back of station wagon :)

Speaking of cyclists the roads are safer now this fella has gone back to where he came from. Note at the 17-27 second segment he fails to brake to avoid the 'dangerous' situation and continues pedalling furiously to get his gopro footage. This is the danger from joe blow playing at being cop. Wonder if any of the cops named in the vid or the NZ police plan on suing for defamation....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHTCs_h-mjc

[R650R]

Just a couple of things to think on.

All very good points and well explained.

[Edbear]

Now THERE's a can of worms question from an enforcement point of view.

The relevant rule is Section 2.1(2) of the Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004.

It says
[INDENT]
(2)If a driver's speed, when driving, is such as to impede the normal and reasonable flow of traffic, that driver must, as soon as is reasonably practicable, move the vehicle as far as practicable to the left side of the roadway when this is necessary to allow following traffic to pass.[INDENT]

Right, that's the rule. Now, how the hell do we enforce it.

Say I'm sitting at the side of the road eating donuts on my troll bike when I see a line of 11 cars coming toward me, doing say 70, in a 100 kmh area. Before I can take enforcement action I'd need to know how long they had been like that for, how many opportunities they have had for the lead car to pull over as required, whether in fact it was the second car which was the problem for not overtaking when the chance was there. The third vehicle too, and the fourth. Right down to the back few. What say the guy in car 2, 3, 4 et al are happy to be doing 70........who is the problem?

Say the first four are all travelling together, to the Summer Old Age Pension Big Day Out, featuring Jerry and the Pacemakers. Sponsored by the manufacturer of the Pacemakers, incidentally. I'd need to deal with all four.

See, it's not as simple as it sounds. Potentially, and from my experience, it's the second car in those lines that deserves the ticket most, as they have had plenty of opportunities to pass, and haven't done so.

Okay, let's put me at number 5 in the line of 11 cars. Then I'm in a far better position to see what the problem is, as I've watched the situation unfold over some distance, and have some real idea what's happening.

But say I was travelling the other way, and saw the 11 going past me in the other direction. How could I address all those issues with a glance at the cars going the opposite way to me. Then if I did decide to do something, I'd be U-turning behind number 11, and forcing them all to let me past to get to number 1, who might not be the biggest problem.

Just hoping to make youse fullas aware that it ain't as easy as it sounds. Generally, I pull the first car over, allowing all the traffic to pass. Then I set them off to the Pacemakers Get Together with nobody behind them. Without a ticket.

Another wee point, is that it's often the older folk who are the slower ones. If you don't know the older person holding you up, you want them ticketed to death. But if that was your own grand mother, how would you like it dealt with?

Just a couple of things to think on.


Shoot her.

I told my 82 year old Mum to just keep in the left lane on Motorways. She usually keeps left and allows traffic to pass on the open road.

[R650R]

There is another angle to "holding up traffic" and it's from the seat of a truck. So I'm 23m long, empty, and trucking back from say...New Plymouth. At each passing lane I indicate left, slow from my 88 kmh limited speed to about 75-80 to make it easier for the 5-10 cars behind me to scoot past. Now there's plenty of times that only one car will pull out to overtake. So after a few passing lanes of this, the same 5-10 cars just sit behind me...and we've gone down plenty of straight roads to make an overtake without the aid of a passing lane easily achievable. In the interests of safety, when I then get to a township or place where I can safely get the truck off the road, I pull over and the mixed reward is some toots and some abuse in the form of the middle finger...hey, it mostly happens during holiday periods, and no it doesn't surprise me. I just put it down to "townie" drivers not being confident enough on the big road :laugh:<_<

The paranoia about speed enforcement is part of this equation I'll admit.

Yep same on the Napier-Taupo road, except even fully loaded with 600hp and knowing the road you can outpace most drivers everywhere except the biggest hills. In daytime traffic it was always 90-94 on cruise control across the plains, pulling hard left on start of straights and flicking the indicator but nobody will pass. Mostly as the first car will be so close to your back doors they cant even see its a straight road, cars 2 and 3 are waiting for 1 to start passing. 2 and 3 finally decide to pass but abort when they see 4 and 5 in their mirrors looking like their going to..... Then you get to the bottom of the Waipungas and leave most of them behind through the twisties. Come the Tarawera hairpin they all want to come past, most of them will hold you up through the next section till after double crossing though....

I always made a judgement call of how many and what type of drivers behind if I pulled over or not. There are some that are hanging back to far and you know it will be dangerous if they come at it half baked. One Xmas I had about 30 cars behind me at Tarawera, none of them had taken the opportunities on the plains so screw them I wasn't stopping, was tight on my log book and couldn't afford the time lost of trying to break into the traffic again. Told the boss he might get some phone calls but none. I proceeded to leave most of them behind through the next section and it wasn't till the kiwis passing lane that most of them started coming past...

Oh well wont have to worry about all that drama on the new trolley next month :)

[scumdog]

Do you think that the 1 Km Tolerance is going to help this situation?

.

Sorry to grinch on your otherwise IK post BUT:

WHY is there this paranoia about getting a ticket for doing 1km over the speed limit?

How many have been pulled over and spoken to about it.."'Scuse me but I stopped you as you were doing 101kph and the limit is 100".

Or even more important, how many have ever recieved a ticket for doing exactly 1kph over the limit? "Not your day sir, 101khp and there I was waiting for you with my trusty radar and you KNOW the speed limit is 100kph"

Maybe it's a different world up there but down here I've never heard from either side of the fence about somebody being pulled over for "1kph over the limit"

(Sorta reminds me of that song "one toke over the line..."):laugh:

[R650R]

The only two cars that pissed me off both did the same thing, used a passing lane to overtake then sat in the passing lane until I made my displeasure known.
The horn in the Subaru lacks the authority...

Ditch the Subaru and buy anything else except a Skyline or Cefiro.... any Subaru says 'boyracer' whether it is one or not and people will show you less respect...

[Akzle]

Ditch the Subaru and buy anything else except a Skyline or Cefiro.... any Subaru says 'boyracer' whether it is one or not and people will show you less respect...

dunno. s GG series B4 sleeper does alright... (ie no wanky boot handle, discotech lights or pish noise)

[scumdog]

Speaking of cyclists the roads are safer now this fella has gone back to where he came from. Note at the 17-27 second segment he fails to brake to avoid the 'dangerous' situation and continues pedalling furiously to get his gopro footage. This is the danger from joe blow playing at being cop. Wonder if any of the cops named in the vid or the NZ police plan on suing for defamation....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHTCs_h-mjc


The mans a twat - a moaning old lady of a twat who should pick better roads/time to cycle.

He's expecting a lot of give from traffic in hectic crowded situations.

And did he get out a ruler to see if those cops were under the recommended distance from him as they passed - oh, after all the bagging of cops (for whatever reason) did he ever go to them to complain about their driving and the driving of others around him? - or is he just a whinger?

[R650R]

dunno. s GG series B4 sleeper does alright... (ie no wanky boot handle, discotech lights or pish noise)

B4's aren't too bad mate had one as company car once.... but still a Subaru and now they are becoming affordable to local ferals thanks to finance.....
I would actually like one myself if they weren't so small inside and the associated image of owning one....

[R650R]

The mans a twat - a moaning old lady of a twat who should pick better roads/time to cycle.

He's expecting a lot of give from traffic in hectic crowded situations.

And did he get out a ruler to see if those cops were under the recommended distance from him as they passed - oh, after all the bagging of cops (for whatever reason) did he ever go to them to complain about their driving and the driving of others around him? - or is he just a whinger?

Oh he complained so much they stopped taking him seriously. He was on TV one news awhile back after the police labelled him a veaxatious litigant, eg serial complainer/axe grinder.
You can bet he never biked though otara or manukau mouthing off like that...

[TheDemonLord]

Sorry to grinch on your otherwise IK post BUT:

WHY is there this paranoia about getting a ticket for doing 1km over the speed limit?

How many have been pulled over and spoken to about it.."'Scuse me but I stopped you as you were doing 101kph and the limit is 100".

Or even more important, how many have ever recieved a ticket for doing exactly 1kph over the limit? "Not your day sir, 101khp and there I was waiting for you with my trusty radar and you KNOW the speed limit is 100kph"

Maybe it's a different world up there but down here I've never heard from either side of the fence about somebody being pulled over for "1kph over the limit"

(Sorta reminds me of that song "one toke over the line..."):laugh:

Different reasons for different people:

Some don't want the hassle of being stopped
Some don't want to pay the fine
Some don't want Mr Plod taking a closer look at their vehicle
Some don't want Mr Plod taking a closer look at their Licence (or lack thereof)
Some don't want Demerits
Some don't want the embarressment

etc.

I agree that in general one would have to be pretty unlucky - but with the Police campaigns publicly declaring that they will be ticketing for 1 kph over - can you fault the NZ public for the state of paranoia?. As for me - I did get ticketed a wee while ago - 107 in 100, just after I had overtaken someone and was slowing back down to the speed limit

[_Shrek_]

I've never heard from either side of the fence about somebody being pulled over for "1kph over the limit"

:yes: dead right there scummy, was cruising along toward Alex over taking at gorge creek & as I went over the top & down the other side over took & was thinking of doing it to the next, :shit: I thought as he gave me a wee reminder of who he was.... I owe that man :apint: & we sat at 100k (gps 100) all the way to Alex

[98tls]

Coming back from up the lakes in the ute the other day im well over and have the mis-fortune to be confronted by a cop car coming the other way,if she didnt notice at 1st that i was travelling well quick the body language of the car when i hit the picks should have been a giveaway but :confused:nothing..nothing at all,did get the stare from the mrs but that was it.:mellow:No idea why,strange but hey all good.

[_Shrek_]

Coming back from up the lakes in the ute the other day im well over and have the mis-fortune to be confronted by a cop car coming the other way,if she didnt notice at 1st that i was travelling well quick the body language of the car when i hit the picks should have been a giveaway but :confused:nothing..nothing at all,did get the stare from the mrs but that was it.:mellow:No idea why,strange but hey all good.

the :Police: thought it's just a ford with the usual body roll :bleh:

[98tls]

the :Police: thought it's just a ford with the usual body roll :bleh:

:laugh:Just as well then...would have been costly.

[swbarnett]

WHY is there this paranoia about getting a ticket for doing 1km over the speed limit?
Well, for one, I was told by a cop in the Hawkes Bay that "zero tolerance now. We might give you a couple of ks." This is way less than the natural error from reading a speedo needle.

[caspernz]

Confidence in overtaking has a lot to do with what you are driving too and its unfortunate the best vehicles are the most expensive but we can enjoy that same confidence on a big bike too.

C'mon now, when it comes to cars, the main ingredient in overtaking is the driver. Even my little runabout Huyndai Getz can overtake safely, and it's only a little 1400cc shitbox. Driver skill/training, or lack thereof, is what keeps :sleep: :spanking: dawdlers "stuck" behind a slower vehicle...at least IMHO :confused:

[R650R]

Well, for one, I was told by a cop in the Hawkes Bay that "zero tolerance now. We might give you a couple of ks." This is way less than the natural error from reading a speedo needle.

You shoulda said you were coming, I would have told you the secret handshake move.

He woulda just been screwing with ya head, they like doing that to out of towners especially Aucklanders. And before you say it, anyone living north of Tirau is an aucklander.

[awayatc]

Sorry to grinch on your otherwise IK post BUT:

WHY is there this paranoia about getting a ticket for doing 1km over the speed limit?

How many have been pulled over and spoken to about it.."'Scuse me but I stopped you as you were doing 101kph and the limit is 100".

Or even more important, how many have ever recieved a ticket for doing exactly 1kph over the limit? "Not your day sir, 101khp and there I was waiting for you with my trusty radar and you KNOW the speed limit is 100kph"

Maybe it's a different world up there but down here I've never heard from either side of the fence about somebody being pulled over for "1kph over the limit"

(Sorta reminds me of that song "one toke over the line..."):laugh:

Scummy,.....
I know you are a good cunt....
once upon a time, most of your colleagues were good cunts as well...
at that time I would always help a copper in need of a hand.....
And have done so plenty of times...( am pretty usefull character in conflict situations )
my problem is with your headshed....
and its muppets...
my experiences with cops in last few years hasn't been very good at all..
and no there is nothing much wrong with my attitude.
Police have successfully managed to alienate previously law abiding joe blogs like me...
1 km over the limit campaign comes from one of your topboys...
And some of his/ their lackeys happily sing his/ their tune.
Would I ever again help a cop In trouble....?
No way

[mossy1200]

One thing I have noticed is that I get better fuel economy at 95-100 than at a little more.
Doesn't really feel any slower on a bike that feels the same until you reach crazy speeds.
400km per tank instead of 350km.
Idd feel a bit pissy if pulled under 105 seeing as im making an effort though.
Also the 90kph drivers now all over both lanes on the motorways are annoying. Now im doing the odd lane splitting that I never did.
Summery. Life got cheaper but more dangerous as a bike owner for me.

[98tls]

Thing that gets me most about the 100k limit is how its the country wide,may be acceptable in places ie West coast South isle but travel South from Christchurch to Oamaru and it becomes ridiculous and simply not possible.

[Taxythingy]

C'mon now, when it comes to cars, the main ingredient in overtaking is the driver. Even my little runabout Huyndai Getz can overtake safely, and it's only a little 1400cc shitbox. Driver skill/training, or lack thereof, is what keeps :sleep: :spanking: dawdlers "stuck" behind a slower vehicle...at least IMHO :confused:

I reckon my shitbox 1300 corolla with bad compression will out shitbox your Hyundai. Overtaking in that is an exercise in either futility or extreme patience. Only time I've arse puckered looking at oncoming traffic over a k away. Bonus thou: It makes my 250 seem super awesome.

[98tls]

Felt the same way when ages back took our little mitsi runabout for a trip up to Christchurch just to see how much cheaper it was than taking the XR8,fuck that never again,quite happy to be poorer and safe.

[Scuba_Steve]

One thing I have noticed is that I get better fuel economy at 95-100 than at a little more.
Doesn't really feel any slower on a bike that feels the same until you reach crazy speeds.
400km per tank instead of 350km.
Idd feel a bit pissy if pulled under 105 seeing as im making an effort though.
Also the 90kph drivers now all over both lanes on the motorways are annoying. Now im doing the odd lane splitting that I never did.
Summery. Life got cheaper but more dangerous as a bike owner for me.

I have the opposite, best fuel economy is achieved "speeding" as all the traffic lights on my daily ride are programmed to go orange just when the legal lot approach them... don't wanna be sitting round wasting fuel

[Akzle]

B4's aren't too bad mate had one as company car once.... but still a Subaru and now they are becoming affordable to local ferals thanks to finance.....
I would actually like one myself if they weren't so small inside and the associated image of owning one....

o yea, never fuken own one.
Even the earlier wrecks did good skidz au.
(an impreza sti, i think. Slightly stylier than an fx carolla, and with awd, and turbo pish.)
but no. Shit drive train.

[Akzle]

You shoulda said you were coming, I would have told you the secret handshake move.

He woulda just been screwing with ya head, they like doing that to out of towners especially Aucklanders. And before you say it, anyone living north of Tirau is an aucklander.

fuck you. Brynderwyns to bombays, thats all they get. Thats where the wall's going. (vote akzle)

[Akzle]

Would I ever again help a cop In trouble....?
No way

oh come on!
You could at least take your foot off the back of his head, just a bit...

[Edbear]

You would possibly need to overtake in a car 3L or more to understand where I am coming from then as I have owned a 1500cc Toyota and have driven a Comodore and Falcon for comparison.

It's all relative. I have spent most of my life driving lower powered cars and enjoy getting the best out of them. My 2.4lt Kizashi has good power for overtaking and you don't need a lot of room, but our old 3.5lt Honda Legend was a monster motor by comparison and then you get to a whole nother world in my mates Commodore HSV ute with something over 320 kw.

[R650R]

You would possibly need to overtake in a car 3L or more to understand where I am coming from then as I have owned a 1500cc Toyota and have driven a Comodore and Falcon for comparison.

Your missing the point. Caspers driven the all the big gear and no doubt had a play in a fast car or two at some stage like most professional drivers. When he says driver input he's talking about the whole plan of attack for an overtake.
My current wagon is a 200kw 3.5L but I don't NEED that for overtaking, its just convenient at times.
All that's needed for overtaking is a suitable speed differential for the available real estate, 15-20km/f difference is plenty to get the job done eg 110k passing slow vehicle doing 90k.
But you plan ahead and visualize where its going to happen and roll on to that speed so your on it as the passing lane starts.
If you do this you'll get the jump on those numptys that naturally speed up due to them subconsciously feeling safer on the wider road.

Even the mighty DR650 with its whopping 45hp catches a few people napping with the above technique, the look on peoples faces when they see a farm bike passing them, priceless :)

[SPman]

When it comes to overtaking, I usually use the slingshot effect - knowing where you can overtake and being prepared for it - coming up to the area, accelerating before I actually get there, and, if it's clear, flicking out, zipping past and pulling in before numpty in car ahead knows what's going on!

On a bike....well...it could get interesting, especially on a 1000 sports bike when I flicked down a gear or 2, as on the 750! 200kph passes don't take long........

[R650R]

But are you not going to spend a lot longer over the other side of the road if you limit your passing speed to 15 - 20 km over? That may be fine for remote roads like the McKenzie Country but I would consider it dangerous anywhere else. I am well aware my non restricted speed approach risks a bigger fine but on the other hand there is less of a chance of a head on and I know which one I would prefer.

An overtake is either safe or not, eg its on or you abort before it starts. The speed you choose to do it at is irrelevant to what we're talking about here which is that with a bit of momentum, planning a small speed differential is easily obtained and all you need to get past. A truck is about 20m, at 20km/h it takes very little time to ride that short distance.
A lower speed differential gives you the opportunity to pull back in too, blasting past with horsepower and big speed gives you no option of something happens ahead (which it does from time to time) like a vehicle turning left out of driveway or side road towards you...

[chasio]

The mans a twat - a moaning old lady of a twat who should pick better roads/time to cycle.

He's expecting a lot of give from traffic in hectic crowded situations.

And did he get out a ruler to see if those cops were under the recommended distance from him as they passed - oh, after all the bagging of cops (for whatever reason) did he ever go to them to complain about their driving and the driving of others around him? - or is he just a whinger?

I tend to agree he's a moany twat with an axe to grind. Numerous times he could have ridden more defensively (why sprint off to get in front of a bus that has a clear road ahead, for example? And there were others.) The cop car whinge was just plain daft.

But for balance I also saw numerous instances where there was absolutely loads of road for the drivers to use to give him plenty of space, yet they still gave him very little clearance. Maybe through ignorance or not giving a shit or (and believe me this happens) to scare the crap out of the rider deliberately. Of course what we don't get to see is the previous few minutes where he may well have been less than stellar himself.

But there was no excuse for the pricks who passed him and turned left across him. That was just plain dick driving.

I used to pushy around Auckland all the time but don't any more. Had plenty of that shit and cameras sitting at home doing nothing but never felt the need to record anyone.

I found that changing my attitude had the best effect on my day. In fact that's true about pretty much every vexing situation, is it not?

[haydes55]

Death toll update...... 7 dead and not a single crash has been attributed to speed even being a factor....

The holiday period has almost a week to go and it's already equalled last years holiday period.... So focussing on speed has no positive effect on the road toll? Funny that. Notice a few fatalities happened in car Vs truck accidents. The only way a driver could not notice a truck is if they weren't paying attention to the road, or were asleep.

Can we class these road deaths as suicide?

[TheDemonLord]

Death toll update...... 7 dead and not a single crash has been attributed to speed even being a factor....

The holiday period has almost a week to go and it's already equalled last years holiday period.... So focussing on speed has no positive effect on the road toll? Funny that. Notice a few fatalities happened in car Vs truck accidents. The only way a driver could not notice a truck is if they weren't paying attention to the road, or were asleep.

Can we class these road deaths as suicide?

Were the trucks wearing Hi-Viz?

[pritch]

any Subaru says 'boyracer' whether it is one or not and people will show you less respect...

Many Subarus are not particularly obvious as to brand, mine has no spoilers or other "boy racer" paraphernalia, realistically most other road users probably wouldn't be aware what make it was. Anyway I'm a bit long in the tooth to be a boy racer. The car has good acceleration for overtaking which is nice, not as good as the bike though. I'm another who doesn't like to spend more time on the wrong side of the road than necessary.

[Berries]

Can we class these road deaths as suicide?
Of course you can, as long as you lump all motorbike fatalities as suicide as well, for riding those two wheeled death traps.

[Scuba_Steve]

Death toll update...... 7 dead and not a single crash has been attributed to speed even being a factor....

The holiday period has almost a week to go and it's already equalled last years holiday period.... So focussing on speed has no positive effect on the road toll? Funny that. Notice a few fatalities happened in car Vs truck accidents. The only way a driver could not notice a truck is if they weren't paying attention to the road, or were asleep.


Probably watching their speedo... you know, for "safety"



Of course you can, as long as you lump all motorbike fatalities as suicide as well, for riding those two wheeled death traps.

Bloody things should be banned! Dangerous they are.

[GrayWolf]

Probably watching their speedo... you know, for "safety"




Bloody things should be banned! Dangerous they are.

Nah the bikes are perfectly safe, just ban PEOPLE from using cars, bikes and trucks... instant road toll fix!!!!
and as an added benifit? More Popo available to do 'real' police work!!

[roogazza]

Death toll update...... 7 dead and not a single crash has been attributed to speed even being a factor....
The holiday period has almost a week to go and it's already equalled last years holiday period.... So focussing on speed has no positive effect on the road toll? Funny that.

I've been waiting for the News Media to report on this road toll.
Will we hear some common sense that we are humans and make fuckups and sometimes we die.
Enough of this 'speed kills' please.
When passing I want to get by as fast as I can and back onto my side. Speedo gazing must not be brought into it ! :facepalm:

[rastuscat]

Probably watching their speedo... you know, for "safety"

A bloke pulls over to the side of the road, prior to doing a U-Turn. He then U-Turns into the path of an oncoming truck.

Actual crash. It happened a couple of weeks back South of CHristchurch.

Skoober, was the driver fixated by his speedo? I mean, really?

Speedo fixation is likely to feature in very few crashes, and those will be had by the numpties incapable of correctly judging the speed they are travelling at.

[Scuba_Steve]

A bloke pulls over to the side of the road, prior to doing a U-Turn. He then U-Turns into the path of an oncoming truck.

Actual crash. It happened a couple of weeks back South of CHristchurch.

Skoober, was the driver fixated by his speedo? I mean, really?

Speedo fixation is likely to feature in very few crashes, and those will be had by the numpties incapable of correctly judging the speed they are travelling at.

Was it a cop??? I hear they're good at doing that :innocent:

[awayatc]

He was just doing same thing that fair few cops are doing .....
Double standards....?

[mossy1200]

A bloke pulls over to the side of the road, prior to doing a U-Turn. He then U-Turns into the path of an oncoming truck.

Actual crash. It happened a couple of weeks back South of CHristchurch.

Skoober, was the driver fixated by his speedo? I mean, really?

Speedo fixation is likely to feature in very few crashes, and those will be had by the numpties incapable of correctly judging the speed they are travelling at.

Should that read "Speed trap fixation is likely to feature in a few crashes, and those will be had by the numpties judging the speed people are travelling at".

I think the issue is the people watching the clock and doing 90 frustrating other road users making them take risks that they never used to take.

[mossy1200]

If you want get this correct have more passing lanes. Ticket the guy that holds up traffic and speeds up in the passing lane.
Ticket the guy that isn't doing 95-100 in the fast lane of a motorway.
Assssholes that drive 90 in the fast lane beside another vehicle doing 90 should have their licence revoked.

[R650R]

Speaking of looking at speedos, check out this whiney twat, filming himself speeding while handholding a video device (prob cellphone) to prove a mufti car is speeding on mway at 110k.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj9BM-mve54

Then be sure to strap yourself in and watch his other vide filming himself handheld again doing about 205k on the cheltnam-hunterville road with oncoming traffic. Real Darwin candidate as that's a bit of a narrower road out Kimbolton way at the back of Feilding.... What a muppett..... pot - kettle - black..... Think he needs a visit....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-5rlO7thqQ

[rastuscat]

So are you saying that if you are in your private car and a cop starts following you, you do not look at your speedo more than if he wasn't?
(assuming he does not know your private car)

It surprises me how easy I find it to sit at 100 without glancing at the speedo. I'm used to my car. Bike too, actually.

[Scuba_Steve]

Speaking of looking at speedos, check out this whiney twat, filming himself speeding while handholding a video device (prob cellphone) to prove a mufti car is speeding on mway at 110k.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj9BM-mve54

Then be sure to strap yourself in and watch his other vide filming himself handheld again doing about 205k on the cheltnam-hunterville road with oncoming traffic. Real Darwin candidate as that's a bit of a narrower road out Kimbolton way at the back of Feilding.... What a muppett..... pot - kettle - black..... Think he needs a visit....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-5rlO7thqQ

Imagine the look on his face when he finds out his speedo will be reading fast :shit:

I'm calling bullshit on that 2nd one tho, we have no signs higher than 100 & he showed a sign at 70 but the speedo he showed went well past both those numbers & we're meant to believe he was able to post the footage afterwards... The propaganda machine tells us time & time again that this would be impossible, he'd be dead! so clearly bullshit & faked

[GrayWolf]

It surprises me how easy I find it to sit at 100 without glancing at the speedo. I'm used to my car. Bike too, actually.

you know rastus, after 40yrs of riding I can also judge reasonably what speed I'm doing on my bike (dont own a car) and can judge reasonably the speed in the 'other' vehicle at work.
It isnt so much the straight line, or 'traffic' speed is it? The real 'bone of contention' is overtaking speed! Yes we can all argue the point of NZ drivers are bad in general, which as another pointed out, and I am from the UK, the level of politeness etc is far greater there than here. Things like the 'zipper' method of filtering, down the wellington roads (SH1 & SH2) they dont filter, they simply move across into the right hand lane, regardless of where the existing car is in that lane, and expect THEM to give way.
When responding to several of the points raised, you DO focus on this 'speedo watching'..

I went for a ride Sunday, and it was diabolical. 80kph in a 100kph limit... yup at the front of around 4-500mtrs queue? Mrs 70+yr old, doddering along in her 1990's holden barina, sat bolt upright, boobs all but touching the steering wheel, hands in a death grip, on the wheel. I slowly overtook the line of traffic, and when I got level to her, {without being nasty or offensive} pointed out she needed to pull over to let the traffic behind her get clear. She looked at me, then simply carried on her '1000 mile stare, death grip' driving. I could see the level of frustration building behind her, it showed in how some were driving.

Reduce speed, fine, do it, but to effectively reach your target NEEDS a concerted 'multi pronged' strategy. Actively be seen, and do as much 'advertising' that you will be targeting those going too slow, not moving left when there is no need to be in the right hand lanes. (yes i did read you post on how do you decide this to ping someone). However, lets be blunt here, if we are going over the limit, for whatever reason, and lets say for 5-10 seconds, like overtaking, the popo have a no excuse policy... apply the same methodology to the 'lane hogging', or, apply the same level of 'tolerance' (see there's that word again) if someone is overtaking and not doing a ridiculous speed.

now as for this 'tolerance' thing, remember, Laws may be passed and enacted, but compliance relies on the TOLERANCE' of the general public. If you think this is not so, I will refresh your memory on Mrs Thatchers 'Poll tax' of the 1980's, for 3 years the people tolerated, then they 'spoke'... no more poll tax. I doubt there is going to be the massive civil unrest that caused, and lets be honest politicians and your 'bosses' RELY on this 'complacency'. But mate, if you want the compliance and TOLERANCE of the public, you also need to be seen to be 'giving' back. Prosecuting the lane hoggers, and the slow for no reason drivers, to allow a much better steady flow of traffic would make the zero tolerance on speed far more acceptable....

[haydes55]

Police give massssssssssive tolerance to drivers who fail to keep left, police give huuuuge tolerances to drivers who fail to indicate and police give tolerances to people who cause crashes and somehow get away without a careless use of a motor vehicle charge. Why only cut the tolerance of one law, and leave massive tolerances on more dangerous laws?

[willytheekid]

you know rastus, after 40yrs of riding I can also judge reasonably what speed I'm doing on my bike (dont own a car) and can judge reasonably the speed in the 'other' vehicle at work.
It isnt so much the straight line, or 'traffic' speed is it? The real 'bone of contention' is overtaking speed! Yes we can all argue the point of NZ drivers are bad in general, which as another pointed out, and I am from the UK, the level of politeness etc is far greater there than here. Things like the 'zipper' method of filtering, down the wellington roads (SH1 & SH2) they dont filter, they simply move across into the right hand lane, regardless of where the existing car is in that lane, and expect THEM to give way.
When responding to several of the points raised, you DO focus on this 'speedo watching'..

I went for a ride Sunday, and it was diabolical. 80kph in a 100kph limit... yup at the front of around 4-500mtrs queue? Mrs 70+yr old, doddering along in her 1990's holden barina, sat bolt upright, boobs all but touching the steering wheel, hands in a death grip, on the wheel. I slowly overtook the line of traffic, and when I got level to her, {without being nasty or offensive} pointed out she needed to pull over to let the traffic behind her get clear. She looked at me, then simply carried on her '1000 mile stare, death grip' driving. I could see the level of frustration building behind her, it showed in how some were driving.

Reduce speed, fine, do it, but to effectively reach your target NEEDS a concerted 'multi pronged' strategy. Actively be seen, and do as much 'advertising' that you will be targeting those going too slow, not moving left when there is no need to be in the right hand lanes. (yes i did read you post on how do you decide this to ping someone). However, lets be blunt here, if we are going over the limit, for whatever reason, and lets say for 5-10 seconds, like overtaking, the popo have a no excuse policy... apply the same methodology to the 'lane hogging', or, apply the same level of 'tolerance' (see there's that word again) if someone is overtaking and not doing a ridiculous speed.

now as for this 'tolerance' thing, remember, Laws may be passed and enacted, but compliance relies on the TOLERANCE' of the general public. If you think this is not so, I will refresh your memory on Mrs Thatchers 'Poll tax' of the 1980's, for 3 years the people tolerated, then they 'spoke'... no more poll tax. I doubt there is going to be the massive civil unrest that caused, and lets be honest politicians and your 'bosses' RELY on this 'complacency'. But mate, if you want the compliance and TOLERANCE of the public, you also need to be seen to be 'giving' back. Prosecuting the lane hoggers, and the slow for no reason drivers, to allow a much better steady flow of traffic would make the zero tolerance on speed far more acceptable....

:wings::clap:BANG FUCKING ON!! :niceone:

Dear Gov't...

307232

[caspernz]

Police give massssssssssive tolerance to drivers who fail to keep left, police give huuuuge tolerances to drivers who fail to indicate and police give tolerances to people who cause crashes and somehow get away without a careless use of a motor vehicle charge. Why only cut the tolerance of one law, and leave massive tolerances on more dangerous laws?

Between yourself and Graywolf, you've just re-written the manual for road policing in this country. But hold on, we can't have any of this European based logic over here mate! The cost to the taxpayer for this kind of training for the traffic section will be horrendous :facepalm:

Mind you, just looking at the shocking things some nitwits get up to in their cars...who'd want to volunteer for traffic duties anyway?

[haydes55]

Side note, rode coro again today, after about 5km of nothing but twisty 50-60km/h dawdling behind a queue of cars, the first straight I see and there's a speed camera van...... Even a speed nazi cop would agree that is simply the stupidest place for a speed camera. I was tempted to park behind it and try block the camera, but not sure how well my little bike would block the camera.

[mossy1200]

Speaking of looking at speedos, check out this whiney twat, filming himself speeding while handholding a video device (prob cellphone) to prove a mufti car is speeding on mway at 110k.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj9BM-mve54

Then be sure to strap yourself in and watch his other vide filming himself handheld again doing about 205k on the cheltnam-hunterville road with oncoming traffic. Real Darwin candidate as that's a bit of a narrower road out Kimbolton way at the back of Feilding.... What a muppett..... pot - kettle - black..... Think he needs a visit....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-5rlO7thqQ

What a dildo. Hope he gets pulled over.

[willytheekid]

...who'd want to volunteer for traffic duties anyway?

OOOOO...ME!!...PICK ME!!!:eek:

...But only if I can bring my own...tools!:shifty:

307235

-repeat drink drivers will become nothing but a messy memory!:devil2:

[caspernz]

OOOOO...ME!!...PICK ME!!!:eek:

...But only if I can bring my own...tools!:shifty

-repeat drink drivers will become nothing but a messy memory!:devil2:

Haha, yeah Willy I agree with that approach, but apparently there is something non-PC about that :innocent:

Some days I just imagine I'm back in Bosnia, and the only three words that count are bearing range elevation. Much better than getting all bent out of shape over nitwits...:facepalm::shutup::sunny:

[unstuck]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/8N_tupPBtWQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>:devil2::devil2:

[scumdog]

- but with the Police campaigns publicly declaring that they will be ticketing for 1 kph over -

Well I cannot recall any cop spokesman saying cops WILL be ticketing people for 1kph over - can somebody show me the such a quote??

MY take on it was that if you're 1kph over the limit you can expect to be stopped no mention of 'and will be issued a ticket for 1kph over the limit'.

[oneofsix]

Well I cannot recall any cop spokesman saying cops WILL be ticketing people for 1kph over - can somebody show me the such a quote??

MY take on it was that if you're 1kph over the limit you can expect to be stopped no mention of 'and will be issued a ticket for 1kph over the limit'.

are you suggesting that when stopped for exceeding the limit one shouldn't expect a ticket? :confused:

[awayatc]

...................?

maybe I should ride around the rivier of the south a bit more often.....?

cant even remember having been stopped by a cop in last 20 years who wasnt feverishly scribbling before even getting out of his vehicle......

police equals infringement notice.....
no exceptions........

[scumdog]

are you suggesting that when stopped for exceeding the limit one shouldn't expect a ticket? :confused:

Well certainly not for this famous '1kph over the limit':bleh:

But if your tyres are bald or your WOF is out by a year or you've been disqualified last week or if you're three parts schikkered..hmm, different story.<_<

[speedpro]

Just got back from a drive to Wgtn and back in the car. Got cruise control and used it everywhere. A bonus is that it has this cool "radar" feature where it slows down behind slower cars and pick up when they do or if I pulled out. I so stopped checking the speedo all the time as the car took care of the whole speed thing up to the speed I chose. Soooo much more relaxing. I even found myself just lazing along behind cars doing only 85K or so as I was paying no attention to the speed at all and never noticed. Of interest is that 2 GPS enabled devices agreed that my speedo reads 4K high so I was setting the open road cruise speed to 104K. Even at 50K the speedo read 53K. It had to be safer without the need to be checking the speedo all the time as I never took my eyes off the road.

[awayatc]

Kiwi biker

B I k e s.........

Not c a r s........

no fucking doze control on bikes....

but am very proud of you snoozing under the limit behind the wheel...
please collect your smily face sticker after class.....

[Kickaha]

Police give massssssssssive tolerance to drivers who fail to keep left, police give huuuuge tolerances to drivers who fail to indicate and police give tolerances to people who cause crashes and somehow get away without a careless use of a motor vehicle charge.

How do you know that?

For all anyone here knows that's exactly what the people you see pulled up on the side of the road are getting ticketed for

[haydes55]

How do you know that?



For all anyone here knows that's exactly what the people you see pulled up on the side of the road are getting ticketed for


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Scuba_Steve]

How do you know that?

For all anyone here knows that's exactly what the people you see pulled up on the side of the road are getting ticketed for

Well you could always send in a OIA request & after 20 working days (give or take) you should have your info (if you want more upto date data), otherwise between July 2011 & July 2012 the 2 top ticket items were "exceeded 50km/h restricted area speed camera" & "exceeded 100km/h" with 492,856 & 112,581 extortion notices respectively (out of a total 1.6mil)

Oh & to add: Failure to keep left was #75 on the list, Failure to indicate was #430 on the list with 1,362 & 15 tickets respectively

[_Shrek_]

OOOOO...ME!!...PICK ME!!!:eek:

...But only if I can bring my own...tools!:shifty:

-repeat drink drivers will become nothing but a messy memory!:devil2:

we could do shift work with that baby :laugh:

[oneofsix]

Well certainly not for this famous '1kph over the limit':bleh:

But if your tyres are bald or your WOF is out by a year or you've been disqualified last week or if you're three parts schikkered..hmm, different story.<_<

:laugh: keep winding but we both know it aint so. FFS I see in the media your bosses are now talking about having to do something else, the only difference is they are inflicted by the NZ popo sickness - an able to admit being wrong, it takes more strength and bravery than they have to admit they screwed up.

[pete376403]

I'm a bit late on the overtaking speed part of this thread (ie passing vehicle has +1 or 2km/hr on the overtaken) but, does anyone else recall a traffic safety ad a number of years back featuring Peter Brock advising passing cars to use a bit of extra speed to get past and get back to the correct side of the road? Seemed a bit too sensible, even way back then. Now of course it would be absolute heresy to suggest you CAN exceed the limit for a few seconds without immediately dying.

[98tls]

I'm a bit late on the overtaking speed part of this thread (ie passing vehicle has +1 or 2km/hr on the overtaken) but, does anyone else recall a traffic safety ad a number of years back featuring Peter Brock advising passing cars to use a bit of extra speed to get past and get back to the correct side of the road? Seemed a bit too sensible, even way back then. Now of course it would be absolute heresy to suggest you CAN exceed the limit for a few seconds without immediately dying.

Sadly the last time i took any notice of Brock was the time i saw him trying to flog off a box of wires amounting to fuck all,Johnson summed him up best "he believed his own bullshit".That aside point taken Pete.

[98tls]

It would be interesting to get data on how many deaths occur from not exceeding 100km/hr during an overtake as opposed to those who do not worry about the limit and spend the absolute minimum on the other side of the road. Many who could provide such data would be dead themselves maybe.

Get where your going with this but you have made no allowance for the dumb factor,as i posted earlier it would be impossible for anything remotely human to travel from Christchurch to say Oamaru at 100ks,they would simply stop at Ashburton wait for a truck and throw themselves under it to end the misery then theres other kind who want to travel the same journey but in 1/2 the time,coppers love em but somewhere in between theres a sweet spot,no data needed tis just commomsense.

[haydes55]

Get where your going with this but you have made no allowance for the dumb factor,as i posted earlier it would be impossible for anything remotely human to travel from Christchurch to say Oamaru at 100ks,they would simply stop at Ashburton wait for a truck and throw themselves under it to end the misery then theres other kind who want to travel the same journey but in 1/2 the time,coppers love em but somewhere in between theres a sweet spot,no data needed tis just commomsense.


Back to the minister of common sense suggestion..... Should give Winnie Petes an email. Twas his slogan for the election.

[Berries]

It would be interesting to get data on how many deaths occur from not exceeding 100km/hr during an overtake
Sod all.


What percentage are overtakes gone wrong
Sod all.


as opposed to tourist drivers on the wrong side of the road would be another bit of data worth knowing.
Sod all.

Falling asleep and crossing the centre line kills. Losing control and crossing the centre line kills. Being on the wrong side of the road and having a head on due to an overtaking miscalculation or being Johnny Foreigner are rare enough that they should not even be a concern, regardless of what the media portray.

[scumdog]

Being on the wrong side of the road and having a head on due to an overtaking miscalculation or being Johnny Foreigner are rare enough that they should not even be a concern, regardless of what the media portray.

Hmm, it has happened down here ya know...and probably would happen more often if it wasn't the *555 calls.

Which these holidays are resulting in a shitload (tm) more calls for cops to locate cars/vans overtaking on blind bends, repeatedly crossing completely to the incorrect side of the road etc etc...
Quite a few rental companys have cancelled their contract with the hirer and take their car back as a result of some of these complaints.





Having lit the fuse Scummy steps back....

[awayatc]

Just curious.........
Do these errant drivers get ticketed after such *555 calls?

[scumdog]

Just curious.........
Do these errant drivers get ticketed after such *555 calls?

A lot of the time but not always.

Seeing what happened on a Go-Pro certainly makes a difference to ticket/no ticket ratio.

[awayatc]

Am a bit thick.....
* 555 from cellphone.........

where does go pro footage fit in?

[scumdog]

Am a bit thick.....
* 555 from cellphone.........

where does go pro footage fit in?

When*555 caller sees cop has stopped the car that they complained about said caller stops and shows the cop the footage...happens a lot down here.

[awayatc]

Enlightened......
:niceone::Police:

cheers.....

[BlackSheepLogic]

When*555 caller sees cop has stopped the car that they complained about said caller stops and shows the cop the footage...happens a lot down here.

I wonder how many of those were because *555 driver traveled below the limit and for safety tried to make sure everyone behind them did likewise by not getting traffic pass.

[scumdog]

I wonder how many of those were because *555 driver traveled below the limit and for safety tried to make sure everyone behind them did likewise by not getting traffic pass.

I wonder....:rolleyes:

[R650R]

I wonder how many of those were because *555 driver traveled below the limit and for safety tried to make sure everyone behind them did likewise by not getting traffic pass.

I had an employers family member undertake me on the Auckland motorway then pull into my lane in front of me and then an unseatbelted passenger proceeded to kneel on the back seat and take photos of my truck.
Then the brake pedal dance started.... should have *555'd them at the time cause a couple of months later it got dredged up in a half hearted attempt at a telling off....
Employer quickly got told to F off and reminded of time constraints on said particular run... Nothing more come of it, still not sure whether it was deliberate entrapment or foolish attempt at cool photo....

So yes the possibility of entrapment in go pro footage exists, I would severely dispute any case unless I knew I'd done wrong. This bullshit where any tom dick and harry makes an allegation then a cop issues a ticket based on virtual hearsay evidence.... In 12 years of trucking only been stopped once regard a complaint and the cop said he had no idea at all what the complainant was going on about and that my driving was perfect...
A fellow driver got a ticket for failing to give way at roundabout in what was the normal 'push/ease your way in during rush hour', he took the $150 fine but he should have fought it as the other driver braked and created the situation...

[caspernz]

Any gopro footage from a slow driver would have to show a dangerous overtake as opposed to just any overtake for the cops to take seriously. I actually thought private camera footage could not be used for a prosecution but only for insurance purposes in the event of a crash.

First hand experience has been that any serious illegal/dangerous act captured on private camera, can be used by your local Police man for issuing a ticket to the offender. How much easier can it get?

Now that we've got the infamous Drivecam fitted in all the trucks, we can manually trip and say rego plate number out loud, follow up with a brief incident report when back at the yard. The footage comes to our driver trainer, he just passes this stuff to Police, most of those result in an infringement being issued I'm told.

Combined with GPS records, it also helps to solve the phantom complaints that some folks like to make about trucker behaviour, especially during holiday periods. The downside is that if one of us misbehaves and it's caught by a member of the public...the tables can be turned on us, and rightfully so I reckon.

[FJRider]

The downside is that if one of us misbehaves and it's caught by a member of the public...the tables can be turned on us, and rightfully so I reckon.

Carry a gun and you risk shooting yourself in the foot ... <_<

[caspernz]

Carry a gun and you risk shooting yourself in the foot ... <_<

Haha, the number of calls that come thru yearly...claiming one of our trucks was doing 110 clicks by Joe Public, when they're limited to 88 and the proof of actual speed can be forwarded to the complainant instantly...never gets boring the guys taking the calls say :laugh:

[FJRider]

Haha, the number of calls that come thru yearly...claiming one of our trucks was doing 110 clicks by Joe Public, when they're limited to 88 and the proof of actual speed can be forwarded to the complainant instantly...never gets boring the guys taking the calls say :laugh:

I drive a truck with GPS log ... similar complaints ... (to plod) to my boss ... (to attempt to cover their errors)

Instant fail .... :laugh:

[speedpro]

no fucking doze control on bikes.........

2015 Honda F6b does though can't see them in NZ. Plenty of aftermarket stuff as well, proper speed control types not just a throttle lock. It's well and truly time motorcycles had cruise control. R1s have had ECU controlled throttles for ages so I'd imagine it's straight forward to include hardware/software to manage the speed.

Don't get me wrong, I totally disagree with this mindless fascination with speeding by the Police and whoever else has anything to add. I just can't see any common sense being employed by them making the rules and enforcing them, and so it's going to continue, and we may as well get used to it. The answer would seem to be to buy a bike that is good at going slow, like a Harley, and just kick back and relax. Park the ZX/R/GSXR and go play at track days, more satisfying and less risk(financially and medically).

The other more general view is that society has rules that help it work and that generally most people agree with. Crims don't obviously, and they pay the price which most people don't have a problem with.

As members of society in NZ we have expectations, such as a benefit if required to help support us if we are unfortunate enough to lose a job or whatever and lots more like driving on the left side of the road. It'd be a funny old place if you only had to obey the rules you agreed with. As members of this society we also have obligations, such as paying taxes and obeying any laws. A swings and roundabouts thing.

Yes, I'm old. Yes I've got lots of tickets for speeding in the (long distant)past + one for dangerous driving, supposedly the worst case the cop had seen in his 17years on the force. I still have a couple of bikes but nothing for the road. I have little self control so sold the last bike before my licence was plucked.

[rastuscat]

I totally disagree with this mindless fascination with speeding by the Police and whoever else has anything to add.

Now that might just be the most salient point in this whole thread.

Because the media beat the whole story up, there's a belief that we spend our lives running round looking for people doing 1 kmh over some limit.

I can speak with some authority on this one. Speed is one of our focuses, but we spend by far the majority of our time doing stuff other than speed enforcement.

[awayatc]

7The answer would seem to be to buy a bike that is good at going slow, like a Harley, and just kick back and relax. .

Haha....
Funny guy....
a mobility scooter in nz will get you a speeding ticket.

was more thinking of selling my beloved harley and getting a Busa .....
cant outrun a commodore on my tractor....

[Ocean1]

It'd be a funny old place if you only had to obey the rules you agreed with. As members of this society we also have obligations, such as paying taxes and obeying any laws. A swings and roundabouts thing.

You're not advocating blind obedience to any laws, now are you? If so you weren't paying attention in history class.

If not then how do you decide which ones you should take issue with?

Here's an idea; let's arsehole any law that more than, say 50% of us break without hesitation on a regular basis, eh?

I doubt that'd see us in any danger from the insidious evels of anarchy. :rolleyes:

[Scuba_Steve]

Now that might just be the most salient point in this whole thread.

Because the media beat the whole story up, there's a belief that we spend our lives running round looking for people doing 1 kmh over some limit.

I can speak with some authority on this one. Speed is one of our focuses, but we spend by far the majority of our time doing stuff other than speed enforcement.

Media, your Gang heads & rundown of tickets issued by category all say the speed scam is your main focus tho
in-fact very few of the top ticket items actually relate to true road safety like red light runners, dangerous or careless driving, drink driving, failure to indicate etc

[FJRider]

Media, your Gang heads & rundown of tickets issued by category all say the speed scam is your main focus tho
in-fact very few of the top ticket items actually relate to true road safety like red light runners, dangerous or careless driving, drink driving, failure to indicate etc

The Media wouldn't twist things to suit their own agenda ... would they .. ?? <_<



And it's not Police HQ staff that (usually) issue Infringement Notice's ... It's their reliance on the discretion of the officers on the road patrols to issue such .. when and where they see fit ... <_<


Give THEM grief ... and they DO see fit ... :laugh:


funny that ...


and it's not like we haven't been warned ... :doh:

[awayatc]

The Media wouldn't twist things to suit their own agenda ... would they .. ?? <_<



And it's not Police HQ staff that (usually) issue Infringement Notice's ... It's their reliance on the discretion of the officers on the road patrols to issue such .. when and where they see fit ... <_<

U
Give THEM grief ... and they DO see fit ... :laugh:


funny that ...


and it's not like we haven't been warned ... :doh:

GeT FUckEd......

since it is new year and all....I will rephrase that for you....

would you get fucked? Please.....

[GrayWolf]

Now that might just be the most salient point in this whole thread.

Because the media beat the whole story up, there's a belief that we spend our lives running round looking for people doing 1 kmh over some limit.

I can speak with some authority on this one. Speed is one of our focuses, but we spend by far the majority of our time doing stuff other than speed enforcement.

As i said in an earlier post.....

maybe it's time the popo 'advertised' the other 'offenses' they target, as much and as often as speeding or alcohol..... Regardless of whether you do focus on others, your own advertising indicates speeding is your main focus, so why should we think any different?

[rastuscat]

Web havé a fairly string policy on listing StuffIt on social média si i havé to be very careful what I post.

But when I'm back at work (late Jan) I'll see if I can post up some stats without losing my job.

[Scuba_Steve]

Web havé a fairly string policy on listing StuffIt on social média si i havé to be very careful what I post.

But when I'm back at work (late Jan) I'll see if I can post up some stats without losing my job.

Bit drunk there RC? Good night was it?

[awayatc]

Never gave the whole phone thing much thought....
being all thumbs texting while driving wouldnt even enter my head..

untill yesterday....
waiting at light on intersection on bike to turn right into 2 lane oneway..
light turning green, so I am slowly heading for my inside lane..
car turning from oposite side of same intersection turning into her far lane...
my lane so to speak....
I briefly hit my horn (stebel ) to alert female driver who
seems to be studying her crotch....
Then I clue on and see that she is texting while taking that turn aiming to wipe me out.
unfortunately for her trafficlights a bit further are red.....
suffice to say I could give her enough of my mind to see her visibly sink into her seat and turning a rather unnatural looking shade of pale....
Happy new year...!

[roogazza]

As i said in an earlier post.....

maybe it's time the popo 'advertised' the other 'offenses' they target, as much and as often as speeding or alcohol..... Regardless of whether you do focus on others, your own advertising indicates speeding is your main focus, so why should we think any different?

Flicking thru the news on the compuda this morn and listening to ZB news.
Certainly no crowing from the leader of our Police Dept.
11 Deaths is far too many, he said,and we can do a lot more to reduce this ???
I am wondering why they aren't doing it already ?
The current splurge certainly ain't working.

[Edbear]

Flicking thru the news on the compuda this morn and listening to ZB news.
Certainly no crowing from the leader of our Police Dept.
11 Deaths is far too many, he said,and we can do a lot more to reduce this ???
I am wondering why they aren't doing it already ?
The current splurge certainly ain't working.

You can't program humans to drive properly. A simple analysis of the causes of accidents sees the same reasons time after time.

[rastuscat]

Bit drunk there RC? Good night was it?

Had the French keyboard on my phone on at the time. Cheaper than booze !!

[rastuscat]

Flicking thru the news on the compuda this morn and listening to ZB news.
Certainly no crowing from the leader of our Police Dept.
11 Deaths is far too many, he said,and we can do a lot more to reduce this ???
I am wondering why they aren't doing it already ?
The current splurge certainly ain't working.

He said "we" can do a lot more, referring to the motoring public.

It's really easy to just point the finger at the Popo, when it's us that can make the difference (us, with me wearing my Joe Public hat)

[200BUSA]

Usually have a good run if pulled up for speeding -one ticket in last 20 years. Cops usually good to deal with. So easy to keep to the limit but we always just want to give the bike a good squirt and thats when we get pinged. But my son got a $600 ticket for riding his scooter on walkway in local park. Neighbour to park complained to Police they came round - were nice at the start but changed tune when we asked for proof of what they said he did. Arrogant cop and 600 bucks for riding on path(which he probably shouldnt of done) just to park up and see his girlfriend. Arent tickets for not wearing seatbelt, no Reg/Wof cheaper than 600?
Cop thinks young smart arse guy, learner on scooter i will show you i have more authority than you.
Wouldnt listen to sons reason. Cop also said he was doing donuts on grassed area. We took photos at park and no grass damage - neighbour to park complaining,lying to get kids in trouble.
Highway guys good to deal with -normal officers (chch)not so good.

[200BUSA]

An empty car park would have been a better location to try maybe. I would have certainly queried how the ticket came to that much unless he committed multiple offences.


He only rode into park. Parked up to see his girlfriend. Ticket has something like -
potential to cause injury/cause annoyance/cause damage.


An excessive total for the ticket.

[pete376403]

He only rode into park. Parked up to see his girlfriend. Ticket has something like -
potential to cause injury/cause annoyance/cause damage.


An excessive total for the ticket.

Thats a pretty open ended charge - there is very little you can do with a vehicle that doesn't have potential to cause those things.

[speedpro]

A simple analysis of the causes of accidents sees the same reasons time after time.

Speeding. After the "simple" analysis that seems to be the only reason put forward.

Of course if the road toll is lower than at some other period then that is used to verify the effectiveness of whatever was being focused on, which mainly seems to be reducing speed. Less speed = lower road toll. Therefore a lower speed limit or tolerance is good and justified. We've seen this over recent years.

Of course, equally, if the road toll is "not" lower than at some other period then that is used to validate the argument that we need to further reduce the speed limit or tolerance. Either way the stats are used to justify further draconian measures.

Nothing else seems to be considered. Certainly no factors other than speed are so regularly quoted. I've always thought some way of measuring fleet miles travelled over the periods in question would be useful when considering road toll stats. Of course if for some reason, like a sudden huge increase in fuel costs, not many people actually hit the road but the road toll was exactly the same then per person per mile travelled the toll would be worse. Weather plays a big part in the number of fleet miles travelled, especially for the 3-day weekend type breaks, so a significant toll reduction on such a break when the weather caused a reduction in numbers of those travelling would be irrelevant without taking account of miles travelled. Without a monitored GPS device in every vehicle though the miles travelled is hard to determine. An idea I had is to record the fuel used nationally over the monitored period. Given that distance is recorded at WOF time it shouldn't be difficult to determine the average fleet distance travelled annually and estimate the distance the fleet travels over say the Christmas holidays.

I look forward to hearing the spin put on it all. As was said by someone - Statistics can be used to prove whatever you want, OR there's lies, damned lies, and statistics.

[200BUSA]

Thats a pretty open ended charge - there is very little you can do with a vehicle that doesn't have potential to cause those things.


If he been acting like an idiot i would tell him to pay ticket and dont do it again. But he only rode into empty park to see GF. But cop seems to be going over the top. Have to go to court we think.

[Madness]

Arrogant cop and 600 bucks for riding on path(which he probably shouldnt of done) just to park up and see his girlfriend. Arent tickets for not wearing seatbelt, no Reg/Wof cheaper than 600?

According to the following web pages it should have been $150 Infringement Fee for riding on the footpath. Is there something else on the ticket perhaps?

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/1999/0099/latest/whole.html - Scroll down and look for 2.13
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303057.html

[BlackSheepLogic]

If he been acting like an idiot i would tell him to pay ticket and dont do it again. But he only rode into empty park to see GF. But cop seems to be going over the top. Have to go to court we think.

The trouble is that you were not there so you may not have the full story of what he actually did. It is not uncommon for teenagers to leave out some pertinent details.

[FJRider]

Neighbour to park complained to Police they came round - were nice at the start but changed tune when we asked for proof of what they said he did. Arrogant cop and 600 bucks for riding on path(which he probably shouldnt of done) just to park up and see his girlfriend. Arent tickets for not wearing seatbelt, no Reg/Wof cheaper than 600?
Cop thinks young smart arse guy, learner on scooter i will show you i have more authority than you.
Wouldnt listen to sons reason. Cop also said he was doing donuts on grassed area. We took photos at park and no grass damage - neighbour to park complaining,lying to get kids in trouble.
Highway guys good to deal with -normal officers (chch)not so good.

If your son said yes sir/no sir/sorry sir ... right from the start ... (and if said scooter was fully legal and no booze was involved and NO damage done) your son would most likely been allowed to go on his merry way. Possibly with a (written) warning ...

He didn't ... and (Police) discretion was never availed ...

[roogazza]

He said "we" can do a lot more, referring to the motoring public.

It's really easy to just point the finger at the Popo, when it's us that can make the difference (us, with me wearing my Joe Public hat)

rastuscat, I'm really not sure Police can make a difference past a certain point, whether the 'we', was public or Police.
In the end humans have to stop making errors or mistakes and thats a big call.

[R650R]

Usually have a good run if pulled up for speeding -one ticket in last 20 years. Cops usually good to deal with. So easy to keep to the limit but we always just want to give the bike a good squirt and thats when we get pinged. But my son got a $600 ticket for riding his scooter on walkway in local park. Neighbour to park complained to Police they came round - were nice at the start but changed tune when we asked for proof of what they said he did. Arrogant cop and 600 bucks for riding on path(which he probably shouldnt of done) just to park up and see his girlfriend. Arent tickets for not wearing seatbelt, no Reg/Wof cheaper than 600?
Cop thinks young smart arse guy, learner on scooter i will show you i have more authority than you.
Wouldnt listen to sons reason. Cop also said he was doing donuts on grassed area. We took photos at park and no grass damage - neighbour to park complaining,lying to get kids in trouble.
Highway guys good to deal with -normal officers (chch)not so good.

Everyone thinks their little kids are angels but I think your prob not being told the full story here, prob got lippy with the cop.
There was a kid around here doing same thing and about 50k on footpath, couldn't be arsed calling cops as knew that Darwin would take care of things soon enough in a better way. The same kid was one of the ones in news while back for shooting another kid with air rifle. His parents seem ok people but don't know what to do I guess and it seems the brush with the law did nothing...
Lots of pedestrian traffic in my street and lots of young people doing dumb stuff, they always seem to get away with warning. I don't think a cop would risk his reputation on an unneeded ticket.

A friend actually does same mini bike thing with his kids but supervised. The problem is if unchecked the next stage is the YZ450 being wheeled down there and running over some granny etc...
If you can afford a mini bike you can afford a trailer and the gas to take them down the river bank or go cart track.

[haydes55]

He said "we" can do a lot more, referring to the motoring public.



It's really easy to just point the finger at the Popo, when it's us that can make the difference (us, with me wearing my Joe Public hat)


I'm doing everything I can to not die, I'm the criminal. People who can't drive for shit and actual have fatal crashes are, for the most part, law abiding citizens because they don't speed.

Hundreds of thousands of speeders are ticketed each year, with no justification of whether their actions were dangerous, meanwhile thousands of unskilled drivers are given their lifetime licenses and think they are amazing drivers, who don't need training, or to consider anyone else's lives, while driving. They don't get tickets.

Change who you target, change the road toll.

I've driven through otahuhu..... When these guys go on holiday, and drive the same way, but on the open road, people die.

[R650R]

I've driven through otahuhu..... When these guys go on holiday, and drive the same way, but on the open road, people die.

You should have stopped and said hello, lots of nice people there, used to hand unload alcohol to the shops there. Otahuhu is quite a nice area, now around the corner in Wymondley its another story....
So now its PI's that are causing the road toll... I don't think so but lets run with it....

So Happy Holiday PI family is cruising over to the Coromandel for a holiday that they won on big Wednesday ( running with your stereotypes to keep it 'real' for you), now for the most part PI familys Honda Odessy is attracting no attention and the driving is ok. MR PI works longs hours though to feed his 8 kids and send the oldest one to UNI so he eventually dozes off and drifts slightly over the centreline.
Now your coming the other way through a big sweeping long corner and your doing 130k as your a good rider aye, ready for anything. You see him coming across but don't think its a problem, just one of those lazy centreline cutters. You don't back off the gas, this your side of the road and you have the right to be doing 130k.
But he keeps coming across and your options to do something expire...

Now which part of that equation do the police have a tool to effectively give you an option to save yourself???

Thinking your a better driver/rider than everyone else is fast way to come to grief. If your going to go fast (which I do sometimes) you have to accept it is dangerous and reduces your options when someone else stuffs up.
Just like a great ninja warrior you have to respect your opponent to win, if you disregard the dangers as no consequence you will fail....

[swbarnett]

Now which part of that equation do the police have a tool to effectively give you an option to save yourself???
Neither. AFAIK cops ticket "speeders" mostly on straight roads.

Your example has little to do with speed. It's about an idiot motorcyclist that doesn't get off the gas and haul up at the first sign of trouble.


Thinking your a better driver/rider than everyone else is fast way to come to grief.
Very true. The trick is not to compare yourself with anyone.


If your going to go fast (which I do sometimes) you have to accept it is dangerous and reduces your options when someone else stuffs up.
Fast for the conditions - yes. Over the posted speed limit - not necessarily.

Remember also that a distracted driver/rider at any speed is one hell of a lot more dangerous than an attentive driver/rider moderately above the speed limit.



Just like a great ninja warrior you have to respect your opponent to win, if you disregard the dangers as no consequence you will fail....
Exactly.

[AllanB]

Dang - I may end up with a trailer hitched on the car in a few weeks for the annual family holiday. 90km per hour trailer limit ........ still fuel economy will be OK :niceone:


Hey - question then, Mossy hitches a motorcycle trailer on the back of his bike and I've seen a few around - I presume that also reduces their legal speed to 90?

[awayatc]

He said "we" can do a lot more, referring to the motoring public.

It's really easy to just point the finger at the Popo, when it's us that can make the difference (us, with me wearing my Joe Public hat)

That is goodwill you guys lost when you declared us your public enemy number 1....
Can't have it both ways....

I have saved many a cops arse in the past.....
trained the fucks even in all manners to do with physical conflict...
different times,
Different life..
now?....
wouldn't cross the road to piss on your face if your eyebrows caught fire.....

police can't operate in a vacuum so stop trying.....
I.e. tell your headshed to get fucked, or get fucked yourself....

happy new year...!

[RDJ]

Heading south on the Sporty, middle of lane, just before Sanson en route to P Nth... when a 'plainclothes' (?Japanese) police car (grey s/w) pulled out of the northbound queue w/all lights flashing - northbound just outside the Sanson 50k zone and using up half of what I'd previously regarded as 'my' lane. Last seen going north at a high rate of knots... Have to wonder if he/she even saw a rider in the oncoming lane...

[haydes55]

You should have stopped and said hello, lots of nice people there, used to hand unload alcohol to the shops there. Otahuhu is quite a nice area, now around the corner in Wymondley its another story....

So now its PI's that are causing the road toll... I don't think so but lets run with it....



So Happy Holiday PI family is cruising over to the Coromandel for a holiday that they won on big Wednesday ( running with your stereotypes to keep it 'real' for you), now for the most part PI familys Honda Odessy is attracting no attention and the driving is ok. MR PI works longs hours though to feed his 8 kids and send the oldest one to UNI so he eventually dozes off and drifts slightly over the centreline.

Now your coming the other way through a big sweeping long corner and your doing 130k as your a good rider aye, ready for anything. You see him coming across but don't think its a problem, just one of those lazy centreline cutters. You don't back off the gas, this your side of the road and you have the right to be doing 130k.

But he keeps coming across and your options to do something expire...



Now which part of that equation do the police have a tool to effectively give you an option to save yourself???



Thinking your a better driver/rider than everyone else is fast way to come to grief. If your going to go fast (which I do sometimes) you have to accept it is dangerous and reduces your options when someone else stuffs up.

Just like a great ninja warrior you have to respect your opponent to win, if you disregard the dangers as no consequence you will fail....


When did I say islanders or people movers were the issue? Where did I say they weren't nice guys? I was saying last time I drove through there, a Honda civic from the 80s indicated left in the center lane, then turned right on a red light, cars didn't wait for a gap in traffic and just pushed in, cars just generally didn't follow any road rule. Are you the racist one for jumping to conclusions? From what I said, you presumed I was talking about a race. Read my post agai.

[R650R]

Read my post agai...

fuck no it was bad enough the first time.... These people, our people, my people.... we all know what these terms mean in the Michael Laws urban dictionary of public relations...

[R650R]

Heading south on the Sporty, middle of lane, just before Sanson en route to P Nth... when a 'plainclothes' (?Japanese) police car (grey s/w) pulled out of the northbound queue w/all lights flashing - northbound just outside the Sanson 50k zone and using up half of what I'd previously regarded as 'my' lane. Last seen going north at a high rate of knots... Have to wonder if he/she even saw a rider in the oncoming lane...

Its like a motorway through there, roads are wide as...

[Scuba_Steve]

Speeding. After the "simple" analysis that seems to be the only reason put forward.

Of course if the road toll is lower than at some other period then that is used to verify the effectiveness of whatever was being focused on, which mainly seems to be reducing speed. Less speed = lower road toll. Therefore a lower speed limit or tolerance is good and justified. We've seen this over recent years.

Of course, equally, if the road toll is "not" lower than at some other period then that is used to validate the argument that we need to further reduce the speed limit or tolerance. Either way the stats are used to justify further draconian measures.

Nothing else seems to be considered. Certainly no factors other than speed are so regularly quoted. I've always thought some way of measuring fleet miles travelled over the periods in question would be useful when considering road toll stats. Of course if for some reason, like a sudden huge increase in fuel costs, not many people actually hit the road but the road toll was exactly the same then per person per mile travelled the toll would be worse. Weather plays a big part in the number of fleet miles travelled, especially for the 3-day weekend type breaks, so a significant toll reduction on such a break when the weather caused a reduction in numbers of those travelling would be irrelevant without taking account of miles travelled. Without a monitored GPS device in every vehicle though the miles travelled is hard to determine. An idea I had is to record the fuel used nationally over the monitored period. Given that distance is recorded at WOF time it shouldn't be difficult to determine the average fleet distance travelled annually and estimate the distance the fleet travels over say the Christmas holidays.

I look forward to hearing the spin put on it all. As was said by someone - Statistics can be used to prove whatever you want, OR there's lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Ya ask me the road toll's linked to The Pirate Bay popularity
As The Pirate Bay has been gaining popularity the road toll has been decreasing, recently The Pirate Bay was [illegally] taken down again & look what's happening to the road toll now...

* this linkage is as factually accurate as the NZTA's/NZ Police "road toll vs speed scam"

[haydes55]

"The age group with the highest number of victims also changed. In 2013, the biggest group was 40 to 59 but in 2014, it was 60-plus."

From a herald article.

You reckon 60+ year olds are the worst speeders? Or is it something else that causes them to crash and die more often?

[Ocean1]

"The age group with the highest number of victims also changed. In 2013, the biggest group was 40 to 59 but in 2014, it was 60-plus."

From a herald article.

You reckon 60+ year olds are the worst speeders? Or is it something else that causes them to crash and die more often?

Yeah, there's more of 'em. The bulge in rider numbers by age has followed that lot all the way from the 70's, and it's substantial.

Last time I looked accident numbers by age was a toss up between those in that age group and beginners in their 20's, in spite of the difference in numbers riding.

[_Shrek_]

went into Milford on the 1st to pick up the tag.... with out exaggeration every 2nd motor home/camper was on the wrong side of the road coming around blind corners, or just pulling out from the side of the road after taking pic's with out looking.... bit surprised the toll is not higher.....cheers :apint: to the bus driver that went O :shit: & moved over enough so I didn't become an ornament.... :facepalm:

[haydes55]

Yeah, there's more of 'em. The bulge in rider numbers by age has followed that lot all the way from the 70's, and it's substantial.



Last time I looked accident numbers by age was a toss up between those in that age group and beginners in their 20's, in spite of the difference in numbers riding.


Sorry should have clarified, that's for all vehicles.

[FJRider]

Heading south on the Sporty, middle of lane, just before Sanson en route to P Nth... when a 'plainclothes' (?Japanese) police car (grey s/w) pulled out of the northbound queue w/all lights flashing - northbound just outside the Sanson 50k zone and using up half of what I'd previously regarded as 'my' lane. Last seen going north at a high rate of knots... Have to wonder if he/she even saw a rider in the oncoming lane...

You know the rules regarding emergency vehicles with flashing lights/sirens on ... <_<

Sporty's don't need ALL the lane do they .. :scratch:

[skippa1]

Heading south on the Sporty, middle of lane, just before Sanson en route to P Nth... when a 'plainclothes' (?Japanese) police car (grey s/w) pulled out of the northbound queue w/all lights flashing - northbound just outside the Sanson 50k zone and using up half of what I'd previously regarded as 'my' lane. Last seen going north at a high rate of knots... Have to wonder if he/she even saw a rider in the oncoming lane...
That car works that area all the time, its a grey sv6 holden sw. He wont have cared if he saw you, theyre like that.....fuckin bacon.

[R650R]

You know the rules regarding emergency vehicles with flashing lights/sirens on ... <_<

Sporty's don't need ALL the lane do they .. :scratch:

Was thinking same thing.... prob better that the cop is late to crime scene and someones wife gets bashed to death than a poor Harley rider has to back off the gas and move over a little....
Would have been the perfect excuse for some unnecessary brap brap acceleration afterwards, posing opportunity missed....

[Ocean1]

Sorry should have clarified, that's for all vehicles.

:rolleyes:

Wouldn't surprise me if there was a similar trend there too. Fewer people are getting licences of any sort and the west is generally doing fewer miles lately.

[rastuscat]

In the Koru Club on the way to Hong Kong. Let's do a statistical analysis on whether my absence makes the toll go up or down

Just sayin. Stats can say anything you want them to.

[98tls]

In the Koru Club on the way to Hong Kong. Let's do a statistical analysis on whether my absence makes the toll go up or down

Just sayin. Stats can say anything you want them to.

Sure your not down south mate...:mellow::laugh:

[AllanB]

I note it is written as 'alleged' speed. Did you think you were going faster? hahahhaaha

[98tls]

I note it is written as 'alleged' speed. Did you think you were going faster? hahahhaaha

:lol:He knew i was but thats where it ended up.

[Trade_nancy]

Took a round trip from Palmy up to New Plymouth on Friday. Total nightmare with traffic going too slow. Was on on SH45 on the way up..traffic less..but slooowwww... Went main route (SH3) on return. Nothing was going > 99kph. I sat behind a new model Holden SV6 as it sat behind a milk tanker for maybe 15 mins...while I alternated between 5th and 6th gears repeatedly. We got to passing lanes and the car stayed where it was. The tanker was running >90..likely about 95. So I guess the car driver was not prepared to break the law in order to overtake. Saw several cases like this all the way. Small streams of slow moving traffic. Only dodgy incident we saw was when a young Maori chick decided to do a U-turn on a blind bend over double yellows in front of us so she could pull into a pub. Nearly wiped. That is the sort of incident that causes more fatalities than speeding. No cop there. No emphasis on TV ads about dangers of stupid driving - they spend all their ad money telling us the guy who hits a car that pulls out in front is to blame for doing as he was doing 107.
Got back to Bulls and sure enough as I expected a cop had setup his radar on the transition from 50kph to 100kph. Ka-ching..

[rastuscat]

No cop there. No emphasis on TV ads about dangers of stupid driving - they spend all their ad money telling us the guy who hits a car that pulls out in front is to blame for doing as he was doing 107."......"...Ka-ching..

Just sayin. Popos don't arrange the ads. NZTA does.

[AllanB]

Just sayin. Popos don't arrange the ads. NZTA does.

Sooooo if you could have a input into the TV ads what would be your professional preference?

Seatbelts? Speed? Blowjobs while driving? etc etc

[98tls]

Guess in a perfect world you could put a cop in the vicinity of every pub and get results but...

[scumdog]

Sure your not down south mate...:mellow::laugh:

Fuckme, YOU know how to start the year Mike!:eek:

[scumdog]

Media, your Gang heads & rundown of tickets issued by category all say the speed scam is your main focus tho
in-fact very few of the top ticket items actually relate to true road safety like red light runners, dangerous or careless driving, drink driving, failure to indicate etc

Since you're seem to do the most whining about 'speed scam' on this thread tell us all how many tickets have you had for breaking the speed limit? 5? 10? 20? more?

'Cos it must have been a shitload to keep you whining on for so long, like frikkin squadron of giant mosquitos....sheesh!

And how many 'other' tickets have you had?

[98tls]

Fuckme, YOU know how to start the year Mike!:eek:

:msn-wink:Dont i though eh,fair play though on/in both the ute and bike ive made my own arrangements regarding an acceptable speed limit which has worked for a surprisingly long time and this was at least at the lower level so ive no complaints over being pinged,will add that the bloke made the parting of hard-earned as pleasant as it could be.:niceone:

[Scuba_Steve]

Since you're seem to do the most whining about 'speed scam' on this thread tell us all how many tickets have you had for breaking the speed limit? 5? 10? 20? more?

'Cos it must have been a shitload to keep you whining on for so long, like frikkin squadron of giant mosquitos....sheesh!

And how many 'other' tickets have you had?

It's been a few, but I'd say under 20 can't be exact most came from over a decade ago. Ratio between speed to others would probably sit 8:1

Does that info help your tollin' in anyway?

[scumdog]

It's been a few, but I'd say under 20 can't be exact most came from over a decade ago. Ratio between speed to others would probably sit 8:1

Does that info help your tollin' in anyway?

"Under 20"

And you still bang on...

[Scuba_Steve]

"Under 20"

And you still bang on...

What can I say I hate corruption