The 2017 Election Thread [Archive] - Page 14

Ocean1

4th November 2018, 10:29

I dont despise any group of people it is you who seem to despise the poor.
Remember in my example the uckland poor were those under 150K using your figures my point still works. So cheers for the figures.

Your assertions do not however make sense as NZ has numerous tax systems other than income alone. GST FBT etc
NZ's tax system works on a sliding scale the more you earn the higher percentage you pay. Thats the system deal with it.
When you factor in GST you will see the tax take you produced is not that equitable as you claim.
The poor pay the GST the poor also dont increase their equity tax fee by using it to pay off a house either.
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None of these figures you produce, of course, includes capital gains (income made from selling assets such as houses and shares), because we don’t for the most part either tax or record those capital gains.
If we did, since those capital gains will go largely to the richest tenth, the truth about tax in New Zealand is that the rich almost certainly pay less of their income in tax than the poor do.
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Overall the lower and middle classes pay more than they should and a higher share than they ever have before.
Thats why in NZ the equality of Rich to poor is growing every day and is higher than ever. 10% have 60% of NZ wealth.
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Under national the home ownership rate dropped by almost 10%.
So instead of that money being invested in personal equity of families its being lost to rent.
According to Stats NZ Nationals policies drove it down to the lowest its been in 66 years

As for your claims about benefits in NZ
Your figures about benefits dont seem to be supported by real data.
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For instance the benefits you claim dont add up with the population, even if every house hold had kids it still wouldn't add up.
https://www.msd.govt.nz/docuents/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/statistics/benefit/2018/quarterly-benefits-sept-18-a3-final.pdf
Note the biggest increases under national were unemployment and emergency housing. All these rose because of Nationals mismanagement.
National had nine years and they did nothing other than sell off assets raise GST and borrow money to fund tax decreases.

Hey I'm just quoting the treasury, I guess they could be wrong.

But if you ignore income tax, (by far the biggest revenue source) and somehow convince yourself that "the poor" pay proportionately more GST than anyone else you can probably make some claim that less than half of the households in the country cost the taxpayer more than they earn. But not a very credible one.

Also, arbitrarily repeating the claim that national spent less taxpayer's money to pay for housing for people who chose not to earn it themselves ad nausium misses the point entirely: That's what real the real world calls sustainable. Not something socialism has a great record with.

Oh, re the rich/poor thing, I don't know where you're getting your "facts" from but there's actually a UN contrived metric for that shit, (yeah i know, fuck the UN, eh?) It's called the gini coefficient. It's hardly budged for fucking years. Poor getting poorer.:killingme

husaberg

4th November 2018, 10:45

Hey I'm just quoting the treasury, I guess they could be wrong.

But if you ignore income tax, (by far the biggest revenue source) and somehow convince yourself that "the poor" pay proportionately more GST than anyone else you can probably make some claim that less than half of the households in the country cost the taxpayer more than they earn. But not a very credible one.

Also, arbitrarily repeating the claim that national spent less taxpayer's money to pay for housing for people who chose not to earn it themselves ad nausium misses the point entirely: That's what real the real world calls sustainable. Not something socialism has a great record with.

Oh, re the rich/poor thing, I don't know where you're getting your "facts" from but there's actually a UN contrived metric for that shit, (yeah i know, fuck the UN, eh?) It's called the gini coefficient. It's hardly budged for fucking years. Poor getting poorer.:killingme
No you are not presenting a full data set. no one is ignoring income tax just presenting that its only less than 50% of the take not the total take.
339369https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=339344&d=1541276364&thumb=1
As i pointed out. whe you include it your figures dont stack up. As i provided data to show, You just produce right wing rhetoric and data taken out of context.

Maybe we need to show some real world data to show your latest asertions about how highly we tax the rich in NZ is just further right wing fiction.
Just data excludes the GST (or poor people tax.)
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The point about the emergency housing benefit is pretty simple, if National hadn't sold off 10,0000 of state houses it would not have been needed to pay hundreds of millions of dollars for motel accommodation now would it.
But i guess if your parties biggest donor for many years also hap[pens by pure coincidence to own the biggest motel chain in NZ thats great for business.:not:

Ocean1

4th November 2018, 12:53

No you are not presenting a full data set. no one is ignoring income tax just presenting that its only less than 50% of the take not the total take.
339369https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=339344&d=1541276364&thumb=1
As i pointed out. whe you include it your figures dont stack up. As i provided data to show, You just produce right wing rhetoric and data taken out of context.

Maybe we need to show some real world data to show your latest asertions about how highly we tax the rich in NZ is just further right wing fiction.
Just data excludes the GST (or poor people tax.)
339365339366339368339367339370

The point about the emergency housing benefit is pretty simple, if National hadn't sold off 10,0000 of state houses it would not have been needed to pay hundreds of millions of dollars for motel accommodation now would it.
But i guess if your parties biggest donor for many years also hap[pens by pure coincidence to own the biggest motel chain in NZ thats great for business.:not:

Like I said, if you don't think the treasury's simple, uncomplicated graph showing how tax is disproportionately paid by high earners is right then take it up with them, I don't know where your pretty pictures come from but I'm pretty confident the treasury is right and you're wrong.

So your contention is that even though high earners provide a hugely disproportionate share of income tax that's offset by the fact that poor individuals pay far more GST?

And then you reckon rich people aren't paying a disproportionately high share of company tax, witholding tax and excise duty either?

Fuck me you're not only not on this planet you're not of this universe.

And let's get this straight for once and for all: Less people requiring charity to pay for their houses = Good, More people requiring charity to pay for their houses = Bad. So how about you re calibrate your "national bad, labour good" manta accordingly, eh?

husaberg

4th November 2018, 13:17

Like I said, if you don't think the treasury's simple, uncomplicated graph showing how tax is disproportionately paid by high earners is right then take it up with them, I don't know where your pretty pictures come from but I'm pretty confident the treasury is right and you're wrong.

So your contention is that even though high earners provide a hugely disproportionate share of income tax that's offset by the fact that poor individuals pay far more GST?

And then you reckon rich people aren't paying a disproportionately high share of company tax, witholding tax and excise duty either?
No the Treasury information relating to paye income tax is of course right its just only one part it does not include the other 50% of the tax we pay in NZ.As per normal you provide no data jusy rhetoric and then attempt to add stuff i never said.

Fuck me you're not only not on this planet you're not of this universe.
No ones "fucking you" other than john Keys crew hes done it to 90% of the country

And let's get this straight for once and for all: Less people requiring charity to pay for their houses = Good, More people requiring charity to pay for their houses = Bad. So how about you re calibrate your "national bad, labour good" manta accordingly, eh?

Less people being able to afford a house is bad less people being able to work and provide for themselves is bad.
National made it worse not better despite the attempted bribes they got chucked out.
By all metric incliuding GZDP growth overseas debt employment balance of trade National was shit for NZ Unless you are in the top 10% that has 50% of NZ wealth of course.
Or you were a large national donor or National MP.

Then it makes it easier to buy the needed 55 MP's its likely 1005 tax deductible as well.

Ocean1

4th November 2018, 13:50

So your contention is that even though high earners provide a hugely disproportionate share of income tax that's offset by the fact that poor individuals pay far more GST?

And then you reckon rich people aren't paying a disproportionately high share of company tax, witholding tax and excise duty either?
No the Treasury information relating to paye income tax is of course right its just only one part it does not include the other 50% of the tax we pay in NZ.As per normal you provide no data jusy rhetoric and then attempt to add stuff i never said.

No ones "fucking you" other than john Keys crew hes done it to 90% of the country

Less people being able to afford a house is bad less people being able to work and provide for themselves is bad.
National made it worse not better despite the attempted bribes they got chucked out.
By all metric incliuding GZDP growth overseas debt employment balance of trade National was shit for NZ Unless you are in the top 10% that has 50% of NZ wealth of course.
Or you were a large national donor or National MP.

Then it makes it easier to buy the needed 55 MP's its likely 1005 tax deductible as well.

Right, glad you're happy with treasury data showing high earners supply disproportionately more of the tax take.

Now you just need to explain how a less than high earner pays more GST, 'cause I reckon you've got that fucking backwards too.

And let's just skirt the relative contributions in company tax ,withholding tax and excise tax, eh, 'cause I'm pretty sure even you can't pretend that's mostly extorted from the poor.

Oh I agree completely, bad indeed. Those fuckers need to get their shit together and not depend on the taxpayer to support them.

See, we agree on most things after all. Except you really do got to reign in that "but national" shtick, that shit's just pathetic.

husaberg

4th November 2018, 14:30

Right, glad you're happy with treasury data showing high earners supply disproportionately more of the tax take.

Now you just need to explain how a less than high earner pays more GST, 'cause I reckon you've got that fucking backwards too.

And let's just skirt the relative contributions in company tax ,withholding tax and excise tax, eh, 'cause I'm pretty sure even you can't pretend that's mostly extorted from the poor.

Oh I agree completely, bad indeed. Those fuckers need to get their shit together and not depend on the taxpayer to support them.

See, we agree on most things after all. Except you really do got to reign in that "but national" shtick, that shit's just pathetic.
No the treasury data as i have pointed out three times now is only part of the taxation story you used the data and tried to apply it as a whole to support your rhetoric
I posted the GST data you ignore it as it paints a different story
You ignore the tax gains from capital gains available under home ownership, which decreased by 10% under National. paying rent is the same as pissing it away.
You seek to say the poor pay less tax but forget there is far more of the poor peasants.
When the place where most kiwis live requires the couple to earn twice the av income to buy a house its not the peoples fault its the system is broken.
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The riches contribution smaller than compared to other part of the world i showed this you ignored it. You did this while claiming they pay to much.
You forget the votes of those who earn less than 150K per year are both far more numerous and yet have the same value as the ones who earn over 150K.
Whats dragging this country down is the old coots like you who have outlived there usefulness to society.
Dont worry next time Nats get in there will be a plan in place to prevent it.

Swoop

4th November 2018, 14:39

But Labour are doing what you suggested was a great idea building far more on the same footprint only you are moaning about it now being a bad thing.
Incorrect. I'm pointing out the "selling off houses" headline is instant whinge-bait for the leftists.
However, When the red-menace do it there is nothing but the sound of tumbleweeds blowing by. Hypocrisy 101.

...yet to try out Limes.
It seems you will encounter a dose of ACC Poisoning and end up with 80% income while doing fuck all to earn it...

husaberg

4th November 2018, 14:45

Incorrect. I'm pointing out the "selling off houses" headline is instant whinge-bait for the leftists.
However, When the red-menace do it there is nothing but the sound of tumbleweeds blowing by. Hypocrisy 101.
.
No you posted some crap headline but never read the article
What made it even funnier was they were actuaslly doing the same thing you claimed only a day before national had done. Only thing was it was not national something national didother than talk about it.
You are the epitome of the hypocritical right whinger as normally characterised by ocean

Ocean1

4th November 2018, 15:59

No the treasury data as i have pointed out three times now is only part of the taxation story you used the data and tried to apply it as a whole to support your rhetoric
I posted the GST data you ignore it as it paints a different story
You ignore the tax gains from capital gains available under home ownership, which decreased by 10% under National. paying rent is the same as pissing it away.
You seek to say the poor pay less tax but forget there is far more of the poor peasants.
When the place where most kiwis live requires the couple to earn twice the av income to buy a house its not the peoples fault its the system is broken.
The riches contribution smaller than compared to other part of the world i showed this you ignored it. You did this while claiming they pay to much.
You forget the votes of those who earn less than 150K per year are both far more numerous and yet have the same value as the ones who earn over 150K.
Whats dragging this country down is the old coots like you who have outlived there usefulness to society.
Dont worry next time Nats get in there will be a plan in place to prevent it.

Nope, you posted a graph showing that the poor pay more tax AS A PERCENTAGE OF THE PITTANCE OF TAX THEY DO PAY.

FFS, do you really believe this bullshit isn't transparently contrived to promote the lie that the rich are the bogyman, here?

As for capital gains tax: nobody is reauired to pay it. The fact that offends you isn't really reason enough to retrospectively blame anyone for not paying it ffs.

And yes, I not only seek to say the poor pay less tax, I insist that it's a fact: they not only pay less tax individually but they pay less tax a group. And none of your spin changes that a jot.

And what's other countries tax policies got to do with it? The only salient comparison there is that the poor pay less everywhere.

And if you're going to blame governments for the price of housing in auckland then I'v already demonstrated that it was labour policy changes that largely drove that.

But I guess if you expect govt to hand you everything on a fucking plate then the only possible way as an individual you're not going to look like a complete loser is to blame national.

Fill yer boots, all it's succeeding in doing is highlighting your dramatically distorted socialist prejudices.

husaberg

4th November 2018, 16:15

Nope, you posted a graph showing that the poor pay more tax AS A PERCENTAGE OF THE PITTANCE OF TAX THEY DO PAY.

FFS, do you really believe this bullshit isn't transparently contrived to promote the lie that the rich are the bogyman, here?

As for capital gains tax: nobody is reauired to pay it. The fact that offends you isn't really reason enough to retrospectively blame anyone for not paying it ffs.

And yes, I not only seek to say the poor pay less tax, I insist that it's a fact: they not only pay less tax individually but they pay less tax a group. And none of your spin changes that a jot.

And what's other countries tax policies got to do with it? The only salient comparison there is that the poor pay less everywhere.

And if you're going to blame governments for the price of housing in auckland then I'v already demonstrated that it was labour policy changes that largely drove that.

But I guess if you expect govt to hand you everything on a fucking plate then the only possible way as an individual you're not going to look like a complete loser is to blame national.

Fill yer boots, all it's succeeding in doing is highlighting your dramatically distorted socialist prejudices.
You win the internet mr Pigeon.
https://eatliver.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/pigeons.jpg
It shouldn't surprise me you cant comprehend basic facts and data considering you cant process now a year later that national lost the last election
They will also lose the next one.

Ocean1

4th November 2018, 19:16

You win the internet mr Pigeon.

It shouldn't surprise me you ccant comprehend basic facts and data considering you cant process now a year later that national lost the last election
They will also lose the next one.

I'm not trying to win anything, I'm just reiterating the basic fact that high earners pay most of the tax take, in spite of your transparent bullshit in trying to prove otherwise by making shit up.

And yet again: they didn't lose the election, they lost the subsequent circus act. Which is why I can criticise the current outfit with complete impunity, not only are they the lesser option but they're not my monkeys, and this is not my circus.

But national, eh? :laugh:

husaberg

4th November 2018, 19:23

I'm not trying to win anything, I'm just reiterating the basic fact that high earners pay most of the tax take, in spite of your transparent bullshit in trying to prove otherwise by making shit up.

And yet again: they didn't lose the election, they lost the subsequent circus act. Which is why I can criticise the current outfit with complete impunity, not only are they the lesser option but they're not my monkeys, and it's not my circus.

But national, eh? :laugh:
No you CLEARLY won the internet congratulations
by a combination of lack of rational thinking backed solely by your own opinion in the face of data that proves you wrong you still managed to pull off a win via sheer lack of your own ability to comprehend simple data that disproves your theory.
Congratulations if only you started off with a small loan of a million dollars you could be US president by now.
I look forward to the Next 5 years of your continued winning.

Ocean1

4th November 2018, 19:32

No you CLEARLY won the internet congratulations
by a combination of lack of rational thinking backed solely by your own opinion in the face of data that proves you wrong you still managed to pull off a win via sheer lack of your own ability to comprehend simple data that disproves your theory.
Congratulations if only you started off with a small loan of a million dollars you could be US president by now.
I look forward to the Next 5 years of your continued winning.

And you sure showed everyone who's right.

Tell us again about the myth of high income earners paying more tax, I'm sure some of them didn't quite get that bit.

husaberg

4th November 2018, 19:39

And you sure showed everyone who's right.

Tell us again about the myth of high income earners paying more tax, I'm sure some of them didn't quite get that bit.
Look dude you clearly won the internet

National won the last election John Key is still Prime Miinister of NZ
Reagan is in the white house
Howard rules Camberra
Maggie Thatchers handbag is still at Dowling street
Everything is right in your world:weird:

Swoop

4th November 2018, 21:54

No you posted some crap headline but never read the article
At least a few people are able to see through the utter lies put forward by liarbour, to bribe an election win.
Have they solved homelessness yet, as promised? Luckily there is the sheer incompetence by the immigration minister to take the focus off of their other failings.

National won the last election John Key is still Prime Miinister of NZ
Isn't it strange how all the leftist comments referred to Key's "false smile", but now the even larger false smile is PM any comments are seen as "inappropriate".:rolleyes:

husaberg

4th November 2018, 22:16

At least a few people are able to see through the utter lies put forward by liarbour, to bribe an election win.
Have they solved homelessness yet, as promised? Luckily there is the sheer incompetence by the immigration minister to take the focus off of their other failings.
Dude everyones still far too busy giggling over the trainwreck that is Nationals leader and former chief whip

Isn't it strange how all the leftist comments referred to Key's "false smile", but now the even larger false smile is PM any comments are seen as "inappropriate".:rolleyes:
Yeah John Key was the epitome of masculinity
http://i.imgur.com/VbxaZzB.gifhttps://thumbs.gfycat.com/ShadyIllFieldspaniel-small.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/zc7ipct.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/9M2KqSs.gifhttps://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/d/df/408863_294194307303009_506963744_n.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130317052529https://thespinoff.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Slide3.jpghttps://thespinoff.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Slide5.jpg

jasonu

5th November 2018, 06:06

Dude everyones still far too busy giggling over the trainwreck that is Nationals leader and former chief whip]

Bullshit. The immigration fiasco is the hot shit right now.

sidecar bob

5th November 2018, 07:29

husaberg

5th November 2018, 07:47

Jesus Husa, that's some lefty losing you're doing right there, keep a grip mate:facepalm:
Ocean is correct about the tax thing, that's old news & how it's always been.
Some crappy graph made by a loser with too much time on their hands in an effort to prove they are somehow contributing doesn't change the fact.
Can we concentrate on the big tooth creature that has broken a pile of election promises & has for the first time in the history of NZ, made a law that a legitimate industry can no longer charge for services it provides?
We should be very alarmed by that.
I certainly am.
Nah its an old right wing beat up that only works if you dont include all the tax or add up everything or include the fact it s based on self assesed tax without including tricks that we both have used that our accountants justify their fees on.
It doesnt include the gains from not having an effective Capital gains tax either nor does it include all the revenue tied under corporate tax or living and other expenses claimed under business expenses.
Nor does it take into account NZ wants a progressive tax system
Ocean just attempted to twist what i said to distract from the fact you now need an income over 150K to buy a starter house in the place where most kiwis live.
Plus home ownership rates slipped by 10% under national

Bullshit. The immigration fiasco is the hot shit right now.
It a non event ,He came in under National, he committed his crimes under National. he was processed using the same legal act of Nationals immigration policy used.
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1977/0061/latest/whole.html
The only difference was he wasnt a rich chinese or a rich american.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/01/new-zealand-could-force-disgraced-nbc-host-matt-lauer-to-sell-13m-farm
Next week will be filled with Bridges resignation and more National party infighting, not necessarily in that order:msn-wink:

Chrusher has the inside running according to this
https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/9pghgn/national_mp_jamilee_ross_has_admitted_to_having/e81ni81

BUT WAIT
more Jamie Lee Ross tapes reveil National intended to cover up the whole saga.
Also that Bridges lied about knowledge of allegations about alleged harassment of women.
Not only that he could be promoted

Secret recordings of a conversation involving Jami-Lee Ross, Simon Bridges and Paula Bennett have been leaked to The AM Show.
The clip features Mr Ross talking to the National Party leadership ahead of his decision to take personal leave at the start of October.
The comments on the tape suggest the National leadership team was trying to cover up the wrongdoing by Mr Ross. They discuss what reasons they will give for his leave – medical or family. Ms Bennett says medical leave would be better, as it would reduce media interest.
“So it would be for medical reasons?” asks Mr Ross.

“Is that what you want?” asks Ms Bennett. “I think either medical or family.”

“Medical is true,” says Mr Ross.

“That’s right,” says Mr Bridges. “There’s no shame in that.”

“And it means everyone will back off you too – the media and all that sort of stuff,” says Ms Bennett.

The tape then records how the parties discussed disloyalty and harassment of staff.

Ross’s request for clarification of the allegations made against him was declined. It was recorded in this part of the discussion:

“Simon told you all about the disloyalty stuff Jami-Lee, and quite frankly if that was put to caucus, that would be enough,” replies Ms Bennett.

“The stuff around harassing staff which I reject, that is the worst. I don’t even know what that is,” says Mr Ross.

“Well you do know what the disloyalty stuff is, and that’s been put to you really clearly. If that was put to caucus, that would be enough,” says Ms Bennett. “We are trying to give you the lightest possible way out of this.”

The tape would have been recorded in early October and before the results of the inquiry into the leak was announced. Bridges will need to explain what he said a couple of weeks later on October 18 about the Newsroom article which detailed allegations of inappropriate behaviour that Ross was accused of. As set out in this Radio New Zealand article:

“I’m gutted about the story and everything that it’s about. I am in admiration of the courage of these women for what has happened here.”

Mr Bridges said he first heard claims of inappropriate behaviour towards women in recent weeks. He didn’t know whether they were the same women as those quoted in the Newsroom report.

“I knew nothing before the leak investigation of any of these sort of things. It’s only in very recent weeks,” he said.

“Within a day of learning about these things, I confronted Jami-Lee Ross about them and have made sure… he is no longer part of our caucus.”

Mr Bridges refused to go into any detail about the claims or who made them, saying he respected privacy.

“I have absolutely no doubt in my mind, I dealt with things in the right way.”

Mr Bridges said he was “completely unaware” that Mr Ross was capable of the alleged behaviour.

“In totality, what we’ve got here are lies, deception, inappropriate conduct, leaks… I am really glad we’ve seen the back of this man.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12154546

Swoop

5th November 2018, 15:40

... the trainwreck that is Nationals leader ...
Certainly not disagreeing on that point...

Banditbandit

7th November 2018, 11:39

Have they solved homelessness yet, as promised?

You can't be serious - do you really think that ANY government can solve the homeless issue in two years?

You're in Dreamland mate ..

TheDemonLord

7th November 2018, 12:00

You can't be serious - do you really think that ANY government can solve the homeless issue in two years?

You're in Dreamland mate ..

Depends on what you mean by Solve...

Swoop

7th November 2018, 13:18

You can't be serious - do you really think that ANY government can solve the homeless issue in two years?

You're in Dreamland mate ..

That's one of the topics that they campaigned on.
Some of the public even believed it...

jasonu

7th November 2018, 14:46

You can't be serious - do you really think that ANY government can solve the homeless issue in two years?

You're in Dreamland mate ..

But the tooth fairy said they would.

Banditbandit

8th November 2018, 13:17

Oh bulshit - you guys are in dreamland and have no ears

She said they would put stuff in place to solve the problem but it would take many years to solve ..

husaberg

8th November 2018, 13:24

Lets see......
The Budget was 1400 grants per year but 8860 grants in the final two months Ending December
December quarter alone, the Ministry of Social Development spent $7.7m on emergency housing grants.
-Social Housing Minister admitted to Newshub she had "no idea" how big the problem was.
"To be honest, we just had no idea, and that's part of it. I mean, they're often hidden from us."
"The Government is renting motel rooms at a rate of $33 million a year. "
At this rate the Government will have made 36,000 grants costing $33 million in the first year instead of providing 1,400 grants costing $2 million as expected.
"The fact the Government thought $2 million would be enough for a year shows how painfully out of touch they are."

https://i.imgflip.com/2m9dso.gif (https://imgflip.com/gif/2m9dso)
.................... .................................................. ............https://i.imgflip.com/2mbok5.gif (https://imgflip.com/gif/2mbok5)

Swoop

8th November 2018, 14:43

jasonu

8th November 2018, 16:32

The question really becomes "can the minister actually read?"...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12156782

Or does this current cabinet's ministers require dot-to-dot puzzles for their decision making?

Where do they get these dicks and who promotes them into actual important positions?
What a fucking muppet. Pretty much par for the Labour incompetence course.

jasonu

9th November 2018, 14:31

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12157427

Just how shit do you have to be before the tooth fairy gives you the boot?

Ocean1

13th November 2018, 09:48

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/108555198/91-million-infrastructure-spend-to-help-build-houses-north-of-auckland

"The Milldale project is an example of the innovative new approaches to financing infrastructure that the Government is developing through the Urban Growth Agenda."

Translation: We've figured out yet another way we can charge the fuckers for the same shit AGAIN!

But it's NOT A TAX, OK?

Swoop

25th November 2018, 18:53

Ocean1

25th November 2018, 19:31

husaberg

25th November 2018, 19:36

It's interesting to hear about this "new ministry" of housing, which has the authority to over-rule local councils and laws.
This has been brought about by far too many regulations getting in the way and slowing down the application & consent process. The ACT party tried to reduce regulations, but obviously without success here.

So, now we have a new government department (as if we needed another one) which will dictate and run roughshod over local decisions at the whims, logic and reasoning of the government...
It looks like communism is alive and doing well.

You might want to aquant yourself with the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Act 2013
Which did the same thing for private developers where for instance some subdivisions didnt even need to comply with NZECP regulations for distances to transmission towers. Which was real clever wasn't it.
Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Act 2013 Which was created by the other "Communist" party led by John Key.

Within Special Housing Areas “Qualifying Developments” are provided with a more streamlined consenting process. To be considered a Qualifying Development, the development must be predominately residential, the dwellings must not be higher than 6 storeys or 27 metres, the development must contain at least the prescribed minimum number of dwellings and at least the prescribed percentage of affordable dwellings.
The criteria may be varied by an Order in Council on the recommendation of the Minister of Housing or a Housing Accord

It also might interest you to know the ministry being created was first suggested by that other national party communist Nick Smith.https://www.interest.co.nz/property/97048/phil-twyford-progresses-nick-smiths-plans-give-central-government-power-cut-through

Just ditch the RMA all together and be done with it ffs.
Out of interest who do you think created the RMA

Shadowjack

26th November 2018, 05:41

So, now we have a new government department (as if we needed another one) which will dictate and run roughshod over local decisions at the whims, logic and reasoning of the government...
It looks like communism is alive and doing well.

Not housing, but you might want to talk to Cantabrians about the loss of democratic process...

Ocean1

26th November 2018, 07:21

Out of interest who do you think created the RMA

Why would I care? I'm not interested in petty identity based party political bullshit.

If I was there's no shortage of ammunition to lob at the current crop of socialists.

The RMA is shit policy, arsehole it.

husaberg

26th November 2018, 07:29

Why would I care? I'm not interested in petty identity based party political bullshit.

If I was there's no shortage of ammunition to lob at the current crop of socialists.

The RMA is shit policy, arsehole it.

Really you are not interested in identity politics as long as the "shit" ideas were not Nationals you mean.
the whole time you have been on KB you have never utttered a word in disagreement with National at all.
The RMA was created by National.
Its interesting that you have been so quiet since national started disintegrating.
Hows Nationals polling..........
339674
It seems the majority dont agree with you sport.

Ocean1

26th November 2018, 07:31

Really you are not interested in identity as long as the shit ideas were not Nationals you mean.
The RMA was created by National.
Its interesting that you have been so quiet since national started disintegrating.
Hows Nationals leader polling..........

Why would I care? I'm not interested in petty identity based party political bullshit.

If I was there's no shortage of ammunition to lob at the current crop of socialists.

The RMA is shit policy, arsehole it.

..................

husaberg

26th November 2018, 07:41

Just ditch the RMA all together and be done with it ffs.

The RMA is shit policy, arsehole it.
Who created the "shit" RMA then?
i am betting you wont be able to bring yourself to name them......
I also see Nationals "strong leader" has taken to asking that the political commentators be kinder in writing about him in the media now.

https://i.imgflip.com/2kqdlf.jpghttps://thespinoff.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/pollwatch-e1540273130226-849x510.jpg
339675339676
Simon rated as being poor 61% vs great 7%
Jacinda rated great 68% vs Poor 5%

Why would I care? I'm not interested in petty identity based party political bullshit.
.

Really

The labour party. Is owned. By the unions. They built it, directed it's internal structure and continue to hold voting rights over caucus appointments.

Did you not also read the bit about the fact that it was labour that initially flogged off a bunch of state houses and threw the problem at private investors.

The more labour change around here the more they stay the same. :laugh:

It's called the Labour Party. They've scaled back the retail fucking up of workplaces, nowadays they concentrate on the wholesale side of fucking shit up.

Tell you what's scary as fuck, though, is all this talk from TOP, Labour and the Lunatics about wealth tax.
.

Swoop

26th November 2018, 18:36

You might want to aquant yourself with the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Act 2013

Out of interest who do you think created the RMA
RMA was supposedly to help out CHCH. The new approach is country-wide.
As for the RMA, I have to agree that it is an utter crock of crap and needs to be repealed.

husaberg

26th November 2018, 20:12

RMA was supposedly to help out CHCH. The new approach is country-wide.
As for the RMA, I have to agree that it is an utter crock of crap and needs to be repealed.

RMA was to streamline the process well before the Earthquakes 1991. It was rushed through and ill-conceived all it did was put pressure on the councils as they had to suddenly come up with environmental policies.
Plus we have regional councils and district councils interpreting it differently here.
For instance i cleared 50 acres of native bush i didn't need a Resource consent as it was in the Grey District. A mate who lived a few KM's away in The Buller District had to fill in a 200 page consent and pay money wait 6 months just because he lived over the river from me. Not only that my neighbour wasn't allowed to clear any land at all anyehere on his 500 acres as he had been identified as potentially having a SNA or significant natural area on his property but the SNA area was also partly on my farm as well.
but because it wa mainly on his he got stopped from doing anything until an ecologist had been allowed to look at the potential SNA.

Also since the RMA was introduced district and regional councils over here have been arguing over whose responsibility it is to clean the drains and waterways so it consequently doesnt get done.
The idea of the RMA was fine in concept, except the councils shouldn't have needed to create the plans in the first place they just didnt have the resources or the money or expertise.
Not only that we have had cases here where doc and other government departments over ruled consents that were legally complaint with the RMA
The CHCH rush through not needing to comply with the RMA or other rules was just stupid.
This was called Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Act 2013
As i pointed out we have development under Transpower lines that is illegal and bloody dangerous not to mention plain stupid.

Ocean1

28th November 2018, 09:54

So a clear majority of Kiwis are in favour of a capital gains tax.

But introducing one will lose you an election.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

TheDemonLord

28th November 2018, 11:04

So a clear majority of Kiwis are in favour of a capital gains tax.

But introducing one will lose you an election.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

2+2=5

(for especially large values of 2)

husaberg

28th November 2018, 15:58

Simons income vs cost difference becoming larger is not reflected by reality.

"It's becoming more expensive to get by, the Government is taking more of what you earn, and incomes aren't rising fast enough. The Government has more and you have less.
Unless of course he is figuring in ahousing crisis that his party for years has claimed did not even exist.:msn-wink:

339699339697339698

In his speech to Aucklanders at Parenting Place on Monday afternoon, Bridges promised not to introduce any new taxes during National's first term if elected in 2020.
As for the rest of his claims its pretty easy for him to promise this or that regarding the next election its pretty clear he wont be PM or even Nationals leader in a few months time let alone years.

carbonhed

3rd December 2018, 16:35

jasonu

3rd December 2018, 17:02

This guy has next NZ prime minister written all over him!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12170542

husaberg

3rd December 2018, 17:49

Latest Colmar Brunton poll.

National 46%
Labour 43%
Greens 5%
Winston First 4%
Maori 1%
ACT 1%

Great to see Winston and the Greens driving their support to the edge of oblivion.

Jacinderella down to 39% in preferred PM. John Key at the same time in his administration was at 77% approval and rose to a peak of 81%. Cindy baayyybeee is less than half this level.

Can't wait for the Pike River clusterfuck to unravel for them!

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/national-surpasses-labour-in-latest-1-news-colmar-brunton-poll-nz-first-and-greens-dip-dangerously-low

So whats Simon Bridges polling........... you never mentioned Simon poll results

The latest poll also shows National leader Simon Bridges stagnating on seven per cent as preferred Prime Minister, while MP Judith Collins roses to a close six per cent.

carbonhed

3rd December 2018, 19:15

So whats Simon Bridges polling........... you never mentioned Simon poll results

3.5 times as high as Helen Clark when she took over as leader of the Labour Party.

RDJ

3rd December 2018, 19:21

Run out of popcorn. Gotta get some more in from Bagdown.

husaberg

3rd December 2018, 19:45

3.5 times as high as Helen Clark when she took over as leader of the Labour Party.

no she was 5% simons never been above 10%
Only her results didnt ever go lower like simons have either.
Bridges has been leader of the nats for nearly a year but hes still going down in the ratings
the poll results then were skewed by both Jim andertons and Winston peters both being the prefered pm both were about 30%

oddly though unlike bridges Helen clark was highest polling preferred pm for 8 years she also rates higher as a PM than any of Nationals leader as well.
339752339753
moore polled higher as leader of the opposition than bolger did as PM.
Simons a lame duck.Paula benefit has to much baggage (despite the gastic bypass) plus no one likes Crusher Collins either.
Tell me do you sincerly believe Bridges can become PM

carbonhed

3rd December 2018, 20:12

She was on 2%.

husaberg

3rd December 2018, 20:25

She was on 2%.
The same as Shipley when she was PM
Clarke support grew Simons support never has
English Bolger and Shipley and Brash all rated higher than Simon now does when national got rid of them as leader
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CK4IgW4WEAA3Xxd.png

Swoop

3rd December 2018, 20:30

This guy has next NZ prime minister written all over him!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12170542
Fucking well hope not.
That retarded cunt should have been used in medical experiments.

carbonhed

3rd December 2018, 20:42

The same as Shipley when she was PM
Clarke support grew Simons support never has
English Bolger and Shipley and Brash all rated higher than Simon now does when national got rid of them as leader
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CK4IgW4WEAA3Xxd.png

So I was right. She was on 2%.

Thanks.

husaberg

3rd December 2018, 20:57

So I was right. She was on 2%.

Thanks.
When she was low her party was low not like Simon
She went up in the ratings Simon hasnt She was also the Pm for 9 years and rated the best pm ahead of any National leader do you honestly believe Simon will ever be Pm?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CK4IgW3WoAAi_Li.png
note Shearer and Cuniffe rated higher than Brigees too

carbonhed

4th December 2018, 06:15

When she was low her party was low not like Simon

Low? :rofl: Low :rofl:

What is this low you're talking about? :lol:

She was on 2%. You were wrong... just fucking admit it you whiny little bitch.

Voltaire

4th December 2018, 06:51

Those polls mean about as much as the Employee of the Month bullshit.

oldrider

4th December 2018, 08:48

Those polls mean about as much as the Employee of the Month bullshit.

Smoke and mirror material for those who have recorded highest achievement in employment? - "beneficiary"? :rolleyes:

Katman

4th December 2018, 09:02

....just fucking admit it you whiny little bitch.

Seconded.

(And I see he has the moderators pandering to him again).

husaberg

4th December 2018, 09:37

Low? :rofl: Low :rofl:

What is this low you're talking about? :lol:

She was on 2%. You were wrong... just fucking admit it you whiny little bitch.

Latest Colmar Brunton poll.

National 46%
Labour 43%
Greens 5%
Winston First 4%
Maori 1%
ACT 1%

Great to see Winston and the Greens driving their support to the edge of oblivion.

Jacinderella down to 39% in preferred PM. John Key at the same time in his administration was at 77% approval and rose to a peak of 81%. Cindy baayyybeee is less than half this level.

Can't wait for the Pike River clusterfuck to unravel for them!

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/national-surpasses-labour-in-latest-1-news-colmar-brunton-poll-nz-first-and-greens-dip-dangerously-low

Lets see you take one figure of Helen clarkes immediately when see took over as labour leader and compare it to Bridges not as soon as he took over as leader but nearly a year after he became leader.
You then take a figure of Jacindas prefered pm and compare it to John key for the same time period, but not his preferred PM rating mind you, Instead you compare it to a different statistic entirely (preferred PM vs approval rating) and say look keys was 2 times higher.
Apples to apples at the same stage clarkes % as preferred pm was as i said 5%
Simon Bridges when he took over as National leader was actually rated 1% as preferred PM While Jacinda has never been below 30% since becoming labours leader.
339769339770
Plus in prefered PM in feb 2010 ie about 15 months after the election in 2009 keys rating as preferred pm was 45% compared to Jacindas rating of 39% not as you tried to say 77% or twice Jacinda's rating using a different statistic.
So yeah whose really wrong here.

Another thing you seem to be oblivious of is Labours support since the election based on election results (according to that poll you posted) has increased from 36.9 to 43%
National on the other hand has only increased from 44.4 to 46%
339766
National voters are still the minority thats why they never formed a government.

carbonhed

4th December 2018, 11:07

husaberg

4th December 2018, 13:35

2% dude.

You were wrong and all the arm waving is just transparent bullshit.

People don't have ideologies, ideologies have people and you're a classic of the kind.

You've heard the meme about the NPC? At least you've got plenty of like minded buddies :laugh:

Refer to post 3310.https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/183438-The-2017-Election-Thread?p=1131117985#post1131117985
Answer it and show how right you are then............
While you try to come up with more excuses here is something else out of the colmar Brunton polls
339771
2% feel more postitive about Simon Bridges due to his handling of the leaked expenses.
38% feel less positive
Whle 51% felt he was a buffoon prior to that so it made no difference:2thumbsup

Oh cool fresh in today more National Caucus leaks
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/377459/new-leaks-didn-t-come-from-national-mp-bridges

Last week an anonymous message detailed internal polling showing the National Party on 41 percent and Labour on 44 percent.
That was not as flattering as a recent public poll and Mr Bridges refused to discuss it when speaking to reporters today.
"I'm not going to talk about internal polls, what we know is we've got a poll there that's public, that's 46 percent, that shows we've got momentum, you can understand there'll be speculation and rumours."
He was asked about the internal polling, putting his party 4 points lower at 41 percent.
"I don't talk about internal polls
Mr Bridges "did not accept" the leak came from one of his own MPs.

Sure it didnt come from inside National Simon we have already heard that one.

carbonhed

4th December 2018, 15:22

husaberg

4th December 2018, 17:08

Post 3298 "3.5 times as high as Helen Clark when she took over as leader of the Labour Party."

Post 3300 "no she was 5% simons never been above 10%"

She was on 2% which your own graph shows quite clearly. So you were wrong.

Simon Bridges when he took over as Nationals leader was 1% as prefered PM
Helen Clark when she took over Labour was 2%.
1% is not 3.5 time higher than 2%.
While its true Clarke once rated 2% Simon at the same stage when he was made leader Rated 1%
As i clearly pointed out at the same stage of their leadership of their parties Helen rated 5% aginst 10% is not 3.5 times 5% either.
What you are trying to do is compare two different leader from two different time frames to attempt to give the impressions simons not doing so bad, when its clear his ratings are a epic disaster.
The fact his party is rating high while of his own ratings is embarrassingly low proves no one even National supporters believe he is up to the Job.
Nor can you say he is so lacking in support because hes new in the job because jacinda was an instant hit in the ratings.
In fact she actually rated higher as NZ prefered PM than simon currently does even before she was Labours leader. 10.5%

Simons ratings are a epic disaster i feel sorry for him.
339780339782339783

carbonhed

4th December 2018, 19:09

pritch

4th December 2018, 20:19

for those who have recorded highest achievement in employment? - "beneficiary"?

It me. Yea!

oldrider

4th December 2018, 20:43

It me. Yea!

Reminds me of those radio quiz extras - when the first caller gets it! - oh well, win some lose some! :lol:

husaberg

4th December 2018, 21:19

What is Simons polling? 7%. 3.5 times as high as Helen Clarks when she took over the leadership of the Labour party. 2%.

That's it.

I'm not interested in engaging with the rest of your thoughts because you simply cannot engage with anybody else in an exchange of ideas. You persuade nobody. You don't impress anybody. You attempt to bludgeon everyone and no one's buying it.
While you might claim to be not interested in engaging with me, that's fine, but at least engage with reality, because in case you missed it Simon is not up against Helen Clark in 1995
Hes up against Jacinda Ardern in 2018 and hes losing big time. Losing in the preferred Pm polls By 32%.
Simon Bridges when he took over as Nationals leader was 1% as preferred PM
Helen Clark when she took over Labour was 2%.
1% is not 3.5 time higher than 2%.
As i clearly pointed out at the same stage of their leadership of their parties Helen rated 5% aginst 10% is not 3.5 times 5% either.
What you are trying to do is compare two different leader from two different time frames to attempt to give the impressions simons not doing so bad, when its clear his ratings are a epic disaster.
The fact his party is rating high while of his own ratings is embarrassingly low proves no one even National supporters believe he is up to the Job.
Nor can you say he is so lacking in support because hes new in the job because jacinda was an instant hit in the ratings.
In fact she actually rated higher as NZ prefered PM than simon currently does even before she was Labours leader. 10.5%

The very fact you are even attempting to put a positive spin on his 7% proves how desperate national supporters are really getting now.

Ocean1

19th December 2018, 11:53

jasonu

19th December 2018, 13:11

RDJ

19th December 2018, 13:11

husaberg

19th December 2018, 16:56

I assume this arbitrary boost in pay will be funded by a commensurate compulsory boost in employee productivity....

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109469758/govt-outlines-pay-boost-for-minimumwage-earners

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Odd you never made that comment when The previous government raised it also for the previous 9 years each and every year.
some might say that would be highly hypocritical of you. But why would your comments ever reflect anything other than a biased opinion that is in no way shape or form based on facts

1 April 2017 $15.75
1 April 2016 $15.25
1 April 2015 $14.75
1 April 2014 $14.25
1 April 2013 $13.75
1 April 2012 $13.50
1 April 2011 $13.00
1 April 2010 $12.75
1 April 2009 $12.50

Ocean1

19th December 2018, 18:06

Odd you never made that comment when The previous government raised it also for the previous 9 years each and every year.
some might say that would be highly hypocritical of you. But why would your comments ever reflect anything other than a biased opinion that is in no way shape or form based on facts

1 April 2017 $15.75
1 April 2016 $15.25
1 April 2015 $14.75
1 April 2014 $14.25
1 April 2013 $13.75
1 April 2012 $13.50
1 April 2011 $13.00
1 April 2010 $12.75
1 April 2009 $12.50

Oh I'm pretty sure I've commented about this particular cash grabbing rort multiple times regardless of who organised it, but don't let that fuck up your usual anti-nat narrative.

You're dead right about my biased opinion though, the REAL fact is I'm seriously against thieving socialist pricks and everything they stand for.

Clear enough?

husaberg

19th December 2018, 20:33

Oh I'm pretty sure I've commented about this particular cash grabbing rort multiple times regardless of who organised it, but don't let that fuck up your usual anti-nat narrative.

You're dead right about my biased opinion though, the REAL fact is I'm seriously against thieving socialist pricks and everything they stand for.

Clear enough?

I am pretty sure you are talking crap. This is going back 9 years.
Beside why ewould you care, do you pay anyone the minimum wage.

Ohyez, definitely an attitude, rather than an income. Many "capitalists" are in debt up to their eyeballs and have an income below the minimum adult wage, they’re risking their all against their projected success, the epitome of capitalism. They’re poor in every monetary sense, but they’re content to take that risk, and they're motivated to make it work.

I am also familiar with the lassitude going hand in hand with your “poverty of spirit”, it can be a fucking struggle sometimes for most of us to make the effort, to believe in yourself. Some never feel any different, but handouts are not the help they need.

Yeah. Trouble is there seems to be no such thing as minimum employee value.

In fact, those beheficiaries WINZ offer employers with a discount of around $180/week represent a wage of around $10 an hour. Still no takers. There's be no takers if they were free. Welcome to the real world.

I made no guesses whatsoever, you're the one who reckons there aren't any more jobs. All I did was point out that you didn't have a clue and you were pulling shit out of your arse to suit your own agenda. Again.

I have a job. Nothing unfortunate about it, I earned it and I continue to earn what it pays. If there's people unemployed it's because there's an artificial lower limit in how much jobs can pay. Arsehole minimum wage controls and there'd be plenty of jobs for those who's work isn't worth paying much for.

Because it's not the job that defines the value of the person doing the work, it's the person paying for it: the market. Which defines the root of your problem, you see everyone's work effort as being identical in value, which is not only factually but ethically wrong. The fact that so many believe that their effort should be rewarded at so much more than anyone else is prepared to pay for is the real cause of unemployment, not the evel corporations and banks conspiring against them.

So, given that in your fevered imaginings hard working well trained and clever people don't benefit any more than lazy, uneducated and stupid people, and that you not only expect such a system to "work" but insist that it's a perfectly fair and reasonable one then I'd say it's tolerably obvious that your level of idiocy trumps pretty much anything you might like to compare it with.

Nevermind, if you raise the minimum wage high enough then all those wicked employers will have to pay teh hard working employees what they're worth. :rolleyes:

Yeah, it really is absurd when you look at how much they have to give back to middle income families in order to compensate them for pretty much exactly what they taxed them for in the first place.

Bollox. You have an uncanny knack of reversing cause and effect. Labour can not "set" the price of their work and manufacturers can't "set" the price of their products. Both would be examples of provider driven markets, and that's a term used synonymous with market failure, a classic positive feedback mechanism.

In reality the only functional price setting mechanism is that driven by the purchaser, demand driven economics. It's self-regulating and stable. Anti-free market adherents have all sorts of reasons why they should have some say in what you pay for shit, and outside of the fact that it always represents theft at one or two removes it destroys that stability.

Labour can negotiate their price with a manufacturer, but they don't have a right to arbitrarily force the employer to accept it, a purchase can only ever be made by the buyer. You're correct in suggesting we don't have a free labour market, but only because of the substantial interference in the market favouring employees. Unemployment is simply a function of the percentage of potential workers incapable of earning an employer the bare minimum required to pay minimum wage.

I don't know when you worked in one, possible when they were pretty much all owned by the big oil co's, who couldn't give a shit whether they made their profit at wholesale or retail. Now they do, and the retail margin is 3%.

Fucking luxury eh? Almost enough to pay a minimum wage teller. But not the rent. Or anything else. In fact once your overheads are paid your numbers represent a huge loss, don't they?

Could it be that your concept of "profit" could do with some work?

Bullshit. There's always been a hard core bunch of doomsayers hell bent on the theory that someone else is responsible for their income, (usually the lack of it). They seem to make more noise, if at all possible when times are good.

The facts are that across the board the standard of living here and in most places has never been better.

Get a grip, chicken little.

Ocean1

19th December 2018, 21:38

I am pretty sure you are talking crap. This is going back 9 years.
Beside why ewould you care, do you pay anyone the minimum wage.

So exactly as I said, there's me commenting on that particular socialist rort multiple times, regardless of which outfit it was that said business had to pay more for..... nothing. You continue to make my argument for me, while apparently believing your own spectacularly bent propaganda proves something only you can understand.

Me? Hire someone where the govt decides I have to pay them more than my customers think they're worth? No thanks. Although to be fair, any business imprudent enough to rely on minimum wage employees where the govt doubles their pay it'd be a fairly short term problem. :bye:

husaberg

19th December 2018, 21:49

So exactly as I said, there's me commenting on that particular socialist rort multiple times, regardless of which outfit it was that said business had to pay more for..... nothing. You continue to make my argument for me, while apparently believing your own spectacularly bent propaganda proves something only you can understand.

Me? Hire someone where the govt decides I have to pay them more than my customers think they're worth? No thanks. Although to be fair, any business imprudent enough to rely on minimum wage employees where the govt doubles their pay it'd be a fairly short term problem. :bye:

your point funny, No where have you blamed the national goverment only as you say the opposite As you say you blame socialist no mater who is in power thats what's hypocritical
Ps if you are worried about having to pay the min wage for employees you are not running a successful business at all.
If you are that shit you need to pay min wages you shouldn't be even in business.
Pay peanuts get monkeys. Only thing is monkeys are dearer than the min wage.

Ocean1

20th December 2018, 06:49

your point funny, No where have you blamed the national goverment only as you say the opposite As you say you blame socialist no mater who is in power thats what's hypocritical
Ps if you are worried about having to pay the min wage for employees you are not running a successful business at all.
If you are that shit you need to pay min wages you shouldn't be even in business.
Pay peanuts get monkeys. Only thing is monkeys are dearer than the min wage.

I've blamed socialist policy from both parties, exactly as you've just detailed, hypocrisy would be trying to maintain the construct that I support national unconditionally.

I'm not worried about having to pay minimum wage at all, if my customers won't pay an arbitrarily set price for my product then neither will I, the idea that there's such a thing as a successful business that does otherwise is typical socialist lunacy.

jasonu

20th December 2018, 08:27

husaberg

20th December 2018, 08:49

$20 bucks an hour for an unskilled worker isn’t ‘peanuts’.

We dont have a oversupply of Mexicans to clean our Auckland houses.
The Ave Auckland house Rent is nearly $600
$20/ hour before tax is $800 week.
Not that Auckland ever had a Housing crisis just ask Ocean he will say it was made up by the socialists to undermine our rockstar economy.
Maybe you need to be a Rockstar to afford the Rent.

husaberg

20th December 2018, 09:01

I've blamed socialist policy from both parties, exactly as you've just detailed, hypocrisy would be trying to maintain the construct that I support national unconditionally.

I'm not worried about having to pay minimum wage at all, if my customers won't pay an arbitrarily set price for my product then neither will I, the idea that there's such a thing as a successful business that does otherwise is typical socialist lunacy.

So exactly who are the Socialist in the National party. You clearly do support National unconditionally as even when they are in power and raise the price you still never mention them or blame them.
Yet as soon as they are kicked out its all Labours fault for doing the same as National has.
You are clearly worried about a minimum wage. Despite your claim as it is you moaning about it.
Your claimed customers clearly do pay a minimum arbitrary price for what ever product unless of course you claim to be so successful you can sell products below their cost of production and your minimum profit you wish to charge.
As all your competition in NZ also must pay the min wage you are not disadvantaged at all.
Maybe you should move to India or Bangladesh or China where such issues as labour laws wont apply to you.

jasonu

20th December 2018, 13:19

We dont have a oversupply of Mexicans to clean our Auckland houses.
The Ave Auckland house Rent is nearly $600
$20/ hour before tax is $800 week.
Not that Auckland ever had a Housing crisis just ask Ocean he will say it was made up by the socialists to undermine our rockstar economy.
Maybe you need to be a Rockstar to afford the Rent.

Haha our supply of illegal Mexicans is becoming fewer by the day.
Maybe NZ should import some of them...

oldrider

20th December 2018, 17:00

Haha our supply of illegal Mexicans is becoming fewer by the day.
Maybe NZ should import some of them...

Hush now - We have been exporting them quietly to the US for years disguised as New Zealanders! :rolleyes:

Ocean1

20th December 2018, 18:19

So exactly who are the Socialist in the National party. You clearly do support National unconditionally as even when they are in power and raise the price you still never mention them or blame them.
Yet as soon as they are kicked out its all Labours fault for doing the same as National has.
You are clearly worried about a minimum wage. Despite your claim as it is you moaning about it.
Your claimed customers clearly do pay a minimum arbitrary price for what ever product unless of course you claim to be so successful you can sell products below their cost of production and your minimum profit you wish to charge.
As all your competition in NZ also must pay the min wage you are not disadvantaged at all.
Maybe you should move to India or Bangladesh or China where such issues as labour laws wont apply to you.

Dude, you just posted a bunch of my quotes criticising socialist policy enacted by National, if it's "clear" to you from those that I support national unconditionally then I can't help you.

Maybe start with the simple stuff, explain to yourself how NZ's petrol market is a) driven by collusion, b) overpriced, c) a free market, (and therefore evel).

When you can understand that what's "clear" to you is, in fact an unmitigated pile of confirmation biased codswallop then we might make a start on clearing up your irrational and pedantic pandering to all things labour. And, for that matter your fetish for socialism in general, in the face of overwhelming evidence that the whole concept is a festering crock of self-interested shite without a single successful long term example worldwide.

Actually, don't bother, you're beyond help, just fuck off.

husaberg

20th December 2018, 18:54

Dude, you just posted a bunch of my quotes criticising socialist policy enacted by National, if it's "clear" to you from those that I support national unconditionally then I can't help you.

Maybe start with the simple stuff, explain to yourself how NZ's petrol market is a) driven by collusion, b) overpriced, c) a free market, (and therefore evel).

When you can understand that what's "clear" to you is, in fact an unmitigated pile of confirmation biased codswallop then we might make a start on clearing up your irrational and pedantic pandering to all things labour. And, for that matter your fetish for socialism in general, in the face of overwhelming evidence that the whole concept is a festering crock of self-interested shite without a single successful long term example worldwide.

Actually, don't bother, you're beyond help, just fuck off.

Just how many criticized national.
Nice attempt to change the subject
I have mentioned the fuel before National did nothing about it.

Katman

20th December 2018, 18:59

Just how many criticized national.
Nice attempt to change the subject
I have mentioned the fuel before National did nothing about it.

I must say, I'm loving your signature.

It's like I'm constantly getting to deliver you a message that you can't go grizzling to the moderators about.

Well done you.

husaberg

20th December 2018, 19:09

I must say, I'd like to deliver

Odd, We always took you as a taker
But you always were a sucker for the cock and ball stories regardless.
Ever ready to swallow anything dished up.
The thing is what quote is my Signiture from? after all you have begged many dudes on hundreds of occasions with that exact same request.
Have you considered other Forums that might be more accommodating to your persuasion.

TheDemonLord

20th December 2018, 20:34

We dont have a oversupply of Mexicans to clean our Auckland houses.
The Ave Auckland house Rent is nearly $600
$20/ hour before tax is $800 week.
Not that Auckland ever had a Housing crisis just ask Ocean he will say it was made up by the socialists to undermine our rockstar economy.
Maybe you need to be a Rockstar to afford the Rent.

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/500-job-vacancies-ashburton-struggling-find-workers

husaberg

20th December 2018, 22:17

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/500-job-vacancies-ashburton-struggling-find-workers
The last thing the main Island needs is Aucklanders
They are advertising for Workers not coffee baristas
Ps the Auckland housing crisis doesn't extend past Auckland.
In fact most people dont live in Auckland

bikaholic

20th December 2018, 22:35

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/500-job-vacancies-ashburton-struggling-find-workers

What are the actual occupations required, and average wage paid in Ashburton.
The article appears very vague, other than higher rates to attract workers is squeezing margins.

Berries

20th December 2018, 23:26

Farrrrk. Ashburton is way up north.

Might as well be Dorkland.

TheDemonLord

20th December 2018, 23:31

What are the actual occupations required, and average wage paid in Ashburton.
The article appears very vague, other than higher rates to attract workers is squeezing margins.

It's more a comment on Supply and Demand.

People can't afford to live where there is an excess of demand for Jobs. These same people aren't moving to where the living costs are lower and there is a shortage of labour.

Back in ye olde days, people would move to where the work was (as there was no benefit propping them up).

People wanting to live in Auckland and wanting to be paid enough for the privilege are clearly not wanting to move to where they can afford to live.

And all that increasing the Minimum wage will do is provide a short-term (6 months - 1 year) reprieve until the cost of living goes up, to pay for the arbitrary increase in the cost of labour.

At which point - they will be no better off.

Voltaire

21st December 2018, 06:00

TheDemonLord

21st December 2018, 13:04

The Otago Daily Fish Wrap 500 vacancies is only 119 on Trade Me, the rest must be by WOM or notices in Countdown.

You can get a 1 bed flat there for $200 a week, which is better than a room in flat here in Auckland.

If your thinking of moving to Auckland for higher wages it will be offset by higher rental.

One of my staff is paying $500 a week for 2 ( all in) for a 1 bedroom flatette in Mt Wellington.

I think there was a news story the other night about this - and a couple of employers said they gave up on advertising on Trademe, posting notices etc since they weren't getting results.

husaberg

21st December 2018, 15:25

It's more a comment on Supply and Demand.

People can't afford to live where there is an excess of demand for Jobs. These same people aren't moving to where the living costs are lower and there is a shortage of labour.

Back in ye olde days, people would move to where the work was (as there was no benefit propping them up).

People wanting to live in Auckland and wanting to be paid enough for the privilege are clearly not wanting to move to where they can afford to live.

And all that increasing the Minimum wage will do is provide a short-term (6 months - 1 year) reprieve until the cost of living goes up, to pay for the arbitrary increase in the cost of labour.

At which point - they will be no better off.

I think you will find most of those 500 are seasonal or short term vacancies.
That said NZ unemployment is running at a 10 year low so much for the nay sayers prediction.

jasonu

21st December 2018, 17:11

That said NZ unemployment is running at a 10 year low so much for the nay sayers prediction.

Are you crediting the tooth fairy and her band of useless cunts for that?

husaberg

21st December 2018, 17:31

Are you crediting the tooth fairy and her band of useless cunts for that?

No of course not it not as if National were in power 9 of those last 10 years ot anything and it suddenly went down when they were heaved out:2thumbsup

https://tradingeconomics.com/charts/facebook.png?url=/new-zealand/unemployment-rate

Or if it just co-incidentally goes up when they are in power or anything:shutup:
http://socialreport.msd.govt.nz/content/images/figure-pw1-1-RGB.png

Swoop

21st December 2018, 18:17

Well, the old "release bad news on Friday" approach still applies, hoping that Te Public will have forgotten by Monday...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12181112

husaberg

21st December 2018, 20:51

Well, the old "release bad news on Friday" approach still applies, hoping that Te Public will have forgotten by Monday...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12181112

Did you read it Swoop?

That detail about Sroubek's travel history was emailed from an NZ Customs intelligence analyst to Immigration NZ six years ago - but was subsequently overlooked and not included in the file given to Lees-Galloway to inform his decision about deporting Sroubek.
Despite the ruling, Sroubek was still liable for deportation, and in 2012 immigration officials started putting together a case to take to the Immigration Minister.
In early 2013, Immigration NZ wrote to Sroubek to tell him he could be deported - but the case was put on hold as Sroubek faced drug charges.

Not added to the file created by the previous governments administration send to imigration NZ was information sent 6 years ago...... 6 years ago.....
So the file given to the minister didnt include information lost under the previous governments time that would have lead to the dude being deported...

jasonu

22nd December 2018, 03:34

Did you read it Swoop?

Not added to the file created by the previous governments administration send to imigration NZ was information sent 6 years ago...... 6 years ago.....
So the file given to the minister didnt include information lost under the previous governments time that would have lead to the dude being deported...

Doesn't matter. The prick was in jail for importing hard drugs and had known gang ties. What sort of thick cunt would want someone like him in their country?????339935

husaberg

22nd December 2018, 09:45

Doesn't matter. The prick was in jail for importing hard drugs and had known gang ties. What sort of thick cunt would want someone like him in their country?????339935

Easy to say from hindsight but If the guy that makes the decision doesn't have the correct information he cant make the correct decision.
He didnt have the information and it seems the reason why is it was screwed up on the last watch. He can only make decisions based on the information provided.
End of story, unless you can provide more information.
Myself i am pretty interested how a guy who had multiple discharges without conviction on serious charges. Any of these would have had him deported.
Also the reason he not deported was they belived his life would be in danger if he returned, but the other information not included was he had been back there anyway of his own volition.
All of this happened on the last goverments watch.

jasonu

22nd December 2018, 11:16

Easy to say from hindsight but If the guy that makes the decision doesn't have the correct information he cant make the correct decision.
He didnt have the information and it seems the reason why is it was screwed up on the last watch. He can only make decisions based on the information provided.
End of story, unless you can provide more information.
Myself i am pretty interested how a guy who had multiple discharges without conviction on serious charges. Any of these would have had him deported.
Also the reason he not deported was they belived his life would be in danger if he returned, but the other information not included was he had been back there anyway of his own volition.
All of this happened on the last goverments watch.

But the cunt was in prison for drugs charges at the time. You don’t think that should have caught the bearded wonders attention ?

husaberg

22nd December 2018, 11:53

But the cunt was in prison for drugs charges at the time. You don’t think that should have caught the bearded wonders attention ?

The information he had said he would likely be killed if he was returned to his country of origin.
He didnt have the information that proved this to be incorrect because the previous administration had screwed the pooch by not putting it in the file.
Do you remember this dude
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Zaoui Nationals Ministry ranted him Citizenship
Or what about a convicted killer not deported by National

may 11-17 A Chinese woman who killed her husband and attempted to murder her daughter-in-law in Nelson will not be deported when she is released from a psychiatric facility.
Guan Zhi Yu stabbed her son's wife, Jin Hua Xu, and fatally stabbed her husband, Shubai Gao, in March, 2013.
She was convicted in the Nelson District Court of manslaughter and attempted murder in 2015 and sentenced to five years and five months' imprisonment.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/92427180/convicted-killer-guan-zhi-yu-avoids-deportation-on-release
or this one https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11547074
Hes still here
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/352372/extradition-bill-for-murder-accused-tops-1-point-2m

jasonu

22nd December 2018, 13:09

He didnt have the information that proved this to be incorrect because the previous administration had screwed the pooch by not putting it in the file.
]

Of course, it's nationals fault that that bearded double banger last name dickhead did a shit job.

husaberg

22nd December 2018, 13:27

Of course, it's nationals fault that that bearded double banger last name dickhead did a shit job.

Who was in chargge when the information was not added to the file.
So why was it Okay for National to let a person who murders someone then tries to kill another in NZ not be deported.

may 11-17 A Chinese woman who killed her husband and attempted to murder her daughter-in-law in Nelson will not be deported when she is released
Guan Zhi Yu stabbed her son's wife, Jin Hua Xu, and fatally stabbed her husband, Shubai Gao, in March, 2013.
She was convicted in the Nelson District Court of manslaughter and attempted murder in 2015 and sentenced to five years and five months' imprisonment.
Yet the story of the century when a Labour one doesn't deport a guy who served time for Drug Dealing
ESp when due to nationals lot f-ups years before withheld important information from going into his permanent file which led to the decision being made not to deport him.

That detail about Sroubek's travel history was emailed from an NZ Customs intelligence analyst to Immigration NZ six years ago - but was subsequently overlooked and not included in the file given to Lees-Galloway t

Swoop

22nd December 2018, 18:00

Did you read it Swoop?

You noted that I didn't comment on the content, just the timing of the delivery?
Friday is the "oh shit - but we have to tell the public" day. It's a practice used by all parties, but excessively so with the current lot.

But... speaking of the content.
Odd how the drug dealers are linked with the dance/music scene, and Mr PM's background is there... The PM "spins the odd disc" as well...
Now she is "getting a new phone number since so many people know the old number".
Hmmm...

husaberg

22nd December 2018, 18:20

You noted that I didn't comment on the content, just the timing of the delivery?
Friday is the "oh shit - but we have to tell the public" day. It's a practice used by all parties, but excessively so with the current lot.

But... speaking of the content.
Odd how the drug dealers are linked with the dance/music scene, and Mr PM's background is there... The PM "spins the odd disc" as well...
Now she is "getting a new phone number since so many people know the old number".
Hmmm...
Your coment was to hide in the Friday Cycle it as if it was bad news damaging to the Goverment when it wasnt.
The content thats a long bow to draw but no more odder than the Chinese women national never deported after she killed one and tried to kill another and Simons want to have the Chinese buy another MP for a 100,000 donation.
Maybe she had some rich living reletives that were big donors to the National party
Cue X files music followed by twilight zone

jasonu

23rd December 2018, 05:35

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12180952

Someone tell this family the way into NZ is getting caught smuggling drugs.

Voltaire

23rd December 2018, 19:39

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12180952

Someone tell this family the way into NZ is getting caught smuggling drugs.

Or if your rich just buy your way in like Peter Theil.

mashman

24th December 2018, 17:39

Or if your rich just buy your'e way in like Peter Theil.

fixed grandma :)

Swoop

24th December 2018, 19:39

Your coment was to hide in the Friday Cycle it as if it was bad news damaging to the Goverment when it wasnt.
There was no need since they had happily shot themselves in the foot with the handling of the case, from the very beginning. It does however alert the great unwashed to being wary of anything released by the tooth monster and her rabble of incompetents, on a Friday.
Simples.

husaberg

24th December 2018, 19:45

There was no need since they had happily shot themselves in the foot with the handling of the case, from the very beginning. It does however alert the great unwashed to being wary of anything released by the tooth monster and her rabble of incompetents, on a Friday.
Simples.

shit all he did was make a decision based on the information he had.
Now theres more information the initial decision was wrong. Its been Fixed.
If hes given duff information its not his fault.
Its not like national did where they never deported multiple murderers now is it.
Is a drug dealer worse than a murderer?

sidecar bob

25th December 2018, 16:46

Andrew little has six hours left to be in Pike River mine by Christmas.:yawn:

husaberg

25th December 2018, 17:01

Andrew little has six hours left to be in Pike River mine by Christmas.:yawn:

You do realise the Drift re-entry started months ago?
There is guys onsite yesterday manning the nitrogen generator pump to push out the methane.
according to the workplan they will be back day after next
PS show me the promise the exact words.

carbonhed

25th December 2018, 17:25

Andrew little has six hours left to be in Pike River mine by Christmas.:yawn:

I thought Winston was going to be first in there? Maybe they're arm wrestling for the honour?

Ocean1

25th December 2018, 18:22

I thought Winston was going to be first in there? Maybe they're arm wrestling for the honour?

They're probably trying to figure out whether they should move the hole to Orks so Kiwirail can use it as a tunnel for a new train set, subdivide it to fix the housing crisis or turn it into a driver training centre for students.

sidecar bob

25th December 2018, 18:41

You do realise the Drift re-entry started months ago?
There is guys onsite yesterday manning the nitrogen generator pump to push out the methane.
according to the workplan they will be back day after next
PS show me the promise the exact words.

Oh for fucks sake. I'm not going to pander to your fucking selective memory loss.
You're the quote finder, go & find where I quoted Little spouting that shit on the news several months Back.
Fucking about with the problem does not equal being in the mine.

husaberg

25th December 2018, 18:56

Oh for fucks sake. I'm not going to pander to your fucking selective memory loss.
You're the quote finder, go & find where I quoted Little spouting that shit on the news several months Back.
Fucking about with the problem does not equal being in the mine.

No the exact words John Keys Promise that no mater what the cost everything would be done to enter the Mine is on tape.
The judges ruling that worksafe under the directions of the national minister acted illegally in obtaining a money settlement to stop the lawful prosecution of those responsible are in the high court ruling summary.
The fact that National changed the mining rules to get rid of independent mines inspectors which was one of the primary causes that led to the disaster in in black and white

Re your claimed little quote I looked both at the time and just before and i can find no such promise to enter the drift prior to Xmas dieectly aributed to Little.
Adi have said countless time there is no current plan to enter the mine only the last 150m-400m or so unexplored parts of the drift
There is a major rockfall that blocks the upper drift that would not have got better since the last few earthquakes.
As the Drift at that stage crosses a fault-line it would be near impossible to get through to access the mine.
This fault with soft unstable rock caused about a years delay during construction.
Mike management for some stupid reason involving wanting to be seen starting the tunnel put the drift in the wrong place. They were told by the Geologist that this was stupid but they still progressed anyway.
the only way around it is to drill another entrance around it this is basically implausible as there still would not be a second egress.
The only other way to access the workings with humans would be to drill a vertical shaft this is also implausible because the mine has be through an explosion and fire and able 10 years of neglect.
Find the quote if it it exists otherwise its the memory of a retired right wing coot vs the NZ media

jasonu

25th December 2018, 19:37

I thought Winston was going to be first in there? Maybe they're arm wrestling for the honour?

On The Mat remake???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBUCFVKNRkE

jasonu

1st January 2019, 18:34

It'll be a short list.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12184613

Swoop

2nd January 2019, 15:07

It'll be a short list.
That should really be "NZ's biggest con-artists".

Swoop

23rd January 2019, 18:24

Katman

23rd January 2019, 18:30

Swoop

23rd January 2019, 18:36

You're still struggling to come to terms with the loss, aren't you?

Nope, just doing the exact same thing the socialists' did, and keep pointing out the ineptitude of the liars in gubbinment. Something you would be familiar with.

Ocean1

23rd January 2019, 19:15

Well, no surprises here.
The lie of "kiwibuild" is coming home to roost and any builder would have told these retarded socialists' that their deluded plans were utter bullshit.

Next, we have the utter stupidity of the CGT plan, but one that will get forced through by the taxation specialists "liarbour".
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12195083
Simply because of an inbred rage against "rich pricks" which will result in higher rates of renting, an increased gap between have-and-have-not groups in society.
With Cunt Cullen's track record of financial ineptitude based on political indoctrination, we are in for a bad time ahead.

And I see Little's vigorously waving the misanthropic socialist flag over at the UN.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/110119379/justice-ministers-un-speech-compared-to-david-cunliffe-apologising-for-being-a-man

I'm surprised someone so obviously embarrassed to be a Kiwi doesn't fuck off somewhere less corrupted by western colonisation. Argentina is probably more is cup of soy latte.

husaberg

23rd January 2019, 20:00

And I see Little's .

I see National lost that last election hows the new guy working out.

Ocean1

23rd January 2019, 20:39

I see National lost that last election hows the new guy working out.

Well, y'know, it'd be fucking difficult for anyone to do more damage across the board than any of the incumbents, so on that basis he's a fucking winner.

But you spin that "but National" shit for all it's worth, dude, it won't change the fact that labour needed a bunch of ridiculous promises and a back room deal with Winston First and the watermelon brigade to get the numbers they needed.

And it don't change the entirely predictable circus these clowns are presenting ever since. Justice system broken by colonialism. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Katman

23rd January 2019, 20:45

And I see Little's vigorously waving the misanthropic socialist flag over at the UN.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/110119379/justice-ministers-un-speech-compared-to-david-cunliffe-apologising-for-being-a-man

I'm surprised someone so obviously embarrassed to be a Kiwi doesn't fuck off somewhere less corrupted by western colonisation. Argentina is probably more is cup of soy latte.

Are you suggesting that a system that can order a woman to pay the court cost of a man who sexually assaulted/harassed her (a man who raped is own daughters no less), all because she didn't get the case heard in time, isn't indicative of a broken system?

TheDemonLord

23rd January 2019, 21:12

Are you suggesting that a system that can order a woman to pay the court cost of a man who sexually assaulted/harassed her (a man who raped is own daughters no less), all because she didn't get the case heard in time, isn't indicative of a broken system?

Is it the entire system that's broken or a small facet/overlooked section of it? I agree with you that what you've written sounds horrendous - but it doesn't mean the entire system is broken.

Katman

23rd January 2019, 21:18

Is it the entire system that's broken or a small facet/overlooked section of it? I agree with you that what you've written sounds horrendous - but it doesn't mean the entire system is broken.

Well I suppose you could try taking a look at all the other cases that the adjudicators of our justice system have fucked up, if it would help.

TheDemonLord

23rd January 2019, 21:24

Well I suppose you could try taking a look at all the other cases that the adjudicators of our justice system have fucked up, if it would help.

And weigh them against all the cases where they haven't - I'm not saying the Justice system is perfect - but for the most part, it does work - and this rhetoric of 'it's completely broken' is both unhelpful and dangerous.

Katman

23rd January 2019, 21:27

- and this rhetoric of 'it's completely broken' is both unhelpful and dangerous.

Or it could spur people on to demand a far better justice system.

TheDemonLord

23rd January 2019, 23:06

Or it could spur people on to demand a far better justice system.

Define a 'far better justice system', precisely. What principals are going to guide your design?

Katman

24th January 2019, 05:57

Define a 'far better justice system', precisely. What principals are going to guide your design?

Things like, it doesn't matter how much money you have or whether you're an aspiring All Black, if you're guilty of the crime you will be penalised just like anyone else would.

(Oh, and it would be good to not have cops lying under oath too).

husaberg

24th January 2019, 06:21

Well, y'know,

I asked about the New National leader whatshername.
https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/t/1/4/9/v/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.1420x800 .1t16d1.png/1544468530203.jpg

oldrider

24th January 2019, 06:44

Looks like you answered all the questions yourself! :laugh:

Ocean1

24th January 2019, 06:58

I asked about the New National leader whatshername.

Which is completely irrelevant to the UN speech fiasco your mate Little presented.

You need a fresh diversionary tactic.

Ocean1

24th January 2019, 07:01

Are you suggesting that a system that can order a woman to pay the court cost of a man who sexually assaulted/harassed her (a man who raped is own daughters no less), all because she didn't get the case heard in time, isn't indicative of a broken system?

Are you suggesting there should be no such thing as a statute of limitations in our legal system?

Are you ever going to argue the point rather than launch into yet another unfocused anti establishment tirade?

husaberg

24th January 2019, 07:05

Which is completely irrelevant to the UN speech fiasco your mate Little presented.

You need a fresh diversionary tactic.

Thats what you were blabbing about not me. I was asking about Bridges.
I can see why you dont want to discuss Bridges a bit of a sore point how weak he apparently is, Dagger collins should sort that out soon for you though.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/R-YkJdYQzis/hqdefault.jpg

Ocean1

24th January 2019, 07:12

Thats what you were blabbing about not me. I was asking about Bridges.
I can see why you dont want to discuss Bridges a bit of a sore point how weak he apparently is, Dagger collins should sort that out soon for you though.

Yeah, in the face of Little's hugely damaging political ineptitude changing the topic is about all you can do I suppose.

I guess it's the sort of populist, personality based response that works for some. I tend to ignore that shit and just keep an eye on policy and implementation.

husaberg

24th January 2019, 07:25

Yeah, in the face of Little's hugely damaging political ineptitude changing the topic is about all you can do I suppose.

I guess it's the sort of populist, personality based response that works for some. I tend to ignore that shit and just keep an eye on policy and implementation.

Funny you should say personality based politics considering He said the same things at National did prior to the election.
So could it really be his suit colour rather than his speech content you find so distasteful that it leaves a bitter taste in your mouth.
Could it really be the bitter pill that you had to swallow when National lost power is really the cause of your issues
National campaigned that the justice systems not working
National campaigned treaty stuff needs to be sorted
National campaigned on gender equality
National campaigned on making the lives better for people with disabilities
National campaigned on open immigration to bring skills to NZ
National campained on giving Maori better opportunities

NZ's incarnation rate is ranked 162 out of 223 countries
Here is who beat us

Guadeloupe (France) 216 970 26.9
Honduras 216 18,950 53.1
Ecuador 222 37,497 34.9
Cook Islands (New Zealand) 229 48 14.6
Morocco 232 82,512 40.2
Chile 233 42,683 33.3
Bahrain 234 3,485 25.7
Azerbaijan 235 23,320 20.6
Lithuania 235 6,544 8.8
Curaçao (Netherlands) 236 377 41
Israel 236 19,325 25.2
Dominican Republic 238 26,286 60.3
Colombia 240 118,708 33.7
French Guiana (France) 249 726 25.9
Greenland (Denmark) 249 139 32.5
Taiwan 265 62,634 5.2
Georgia 268 9,990 17.1
Peru 270 87,995 39.8
Trinidad and Tobago 270 3,667 60.9
Nicaragua 276 17,196 21.4
South Africa 280 158,111 25.8
Saint Lucia 280 527 53.5
Eswatini 282 3,610 18.1
Guyana 283 2,200 35.6
Iran 284 230,000 25.1
Turkey 288 232,886 43.1
Dominica 289 211 23.7
Namibia 295 7,400 c. 54
Cape Verde 298 1,542 23.3
Barbados 300 874 48.9
Puerto Rico (United States) 313 10,475 13
Bermuda (United Kingdom) 319 209 9.6
Antigua and Barbuda 321 305 37
Uruguay 321 11,078 69.7
Brazil 324 690,722 35.4
American Samoa (United States) 345 193 14.9
Belize 356 1,297 30.1
Belarus 364 34,600 18.2
Anguilla (United Kingdom) 367 55 45.5
Costa Rica 374 19,226 13.3
Panama 390 16,183 53
Cayman Islands (United Kingdom) 393 253 29.6
Saint Kitts and Nevis 393 220 30.5
Palau 395 87 4.1
Russia 402 582,889 17.5
Guam (United States) 404 667 45.1
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 426 469 24.3
Grenada 435 465 15.2 Notes
Seychelles 437 423 16.8 Notes
Bahamas 438 1,746 42 Notes
Rwanda 464 61,000 6.8 Notes
British Virgin Islands (United Kingdom) 470 134 37
Northern Mariana Islands (United States) 482 270
Maldives 499 1,852
Cuba 510 57,337
Thailand 526 364,288 18.2
U.S. Virgin Islands (United States) 542 577 36.4
Turkmenistan 552 30,452 14
El Salvador 604 38,714 29.5
United States 655 2,121,600 21.6
San Marino 3 0

So if you dont like what he said fine but remember hes saying the same stuff National did only without the lisp and with opening his mouth wide enough to talk properly.

Ocean1

24th January 2019, 07:51

Funny you should say personality based politics considering He said the same things at Nation did prior to the election.
National campaigned that the justice systems not working
National campaigned treaty stuff needs to be sorted
National campaigned on gender equality
National campaigned on making the lives better for people with disabilities
National campaigned on open imigration to bring skills to NZ
National campained on giving Maori better opportunities

NZ's incarnation rate is ranked 162 out of 223 countries
Here is who beat us

Guadeloupe (France) 216 970 26.9
Honduras 216 18,950 53.1
Ecuador 222 37,497 34.9
Cook Islands (New Zealand) 229 48 14.6
Morocco 232 82,512 40.2
Chile 233 42,683 33.3
Bahrain 234 3,485 25.7
Azerbaijan 235 23,320 20.6
Lithuania 235 6,544 8.8
Curaçao (Netherlands) 236 377 41
Israel 236 19,325 25.2
Dominican Republic 238 26,286 60.3
Colombia 240 118,708 33.7
French Guiana (France) 249 726 25.9
Greenland (Denmark) 249 139 32.5
Taiwan 265 62,634 5.2
Georgia 268 9,990 17.1
Peru 270 87,995 39.8
Trinidad and Tobago 270 3,667 60.9
Nicaragua 276 17,196 21.4
South Africa 280 158,111 25.8
Saint Lucia 280 527 53.5
Eswatini 282 3,610 18.1
Guyana 283 2,200 35.6
Iran 284 230,000 25.1
Turkey 288 232,886 43.1
Dominica 289 211 23.7
Namibia 295 7,400 c. 54
Cape Verde 298 1,542 23.3
Barbados 300 874 48.9
Puerto Rico (United States) 313 10,475 13
Bermuda (United Kingdom) 319 209 9.6
Antigua and Barbuda 321 305 37
Uruguay 321 11,078 69.7
Brazil 324 690,722 35.4
American Samoa (United States) 345 193 14.9
Belize 356 1,297 30.1
Belarus 364 34,600 18.2
Anguilla (United Kingdom) 367 55 45.5
Costa Rica 374 19,226 13.3
Panama 390 16,183 53
Cayman Islands (United Kingdom) 393 253 29.6
Saint Kitts and Nevis 393 220 30.5
Palau 395 87 4.1
Russia 402 582,889 17.5
Guam (United States) 404 667 45.1
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 426 469 24.3
Grenada 435 465 15.2 Notes
Seychelles 437 423 16.8 Notes
Bahamas 438 1,746 42 Notes
Rwanda 464 61,000 6.8 Notes
British Virgin Islands (United Kingdom) 470 134 37
Northern Mariana Islands (United States) 482 270
Maldives 499 1,852
Cuba 510 57,337
Thailand 526 364,288 18.2
U.S. Virgin Islands (United States) 542 577 36.4
Turkmenistan 552 30,452 14
El Salvador 604 38,714 29.5
United States 655 2,121,600 21.6
San Marino 3 0

So if you dont like what he said fine but remember hes saying the same stuff National did only without the lisp and with opening his mouth wide enough to talk properly.

Yeah. Um, introducing a few straw men into the usual "But National" rhetoric isn't addressing the topic of Little's embarrassing behavior either.

Try again.

Or not.

husaberg

24th January 2019, 08:12

Yeah. Um, introducing a few straw men into the usual "But National" rhetoric isn't addressing the topic of Little's embarrassing behavior either.

Try again.

Or not.

You are the one with straw men hollow in fact you had the tin man as well as the lion without any courage.
Go on then list exactly what is it he said you have issues with that were not Part of Nationals election campaign that you so supported then this should be fun.

jasonu

24th January 2019, 08:19

Thats what you were blabbing about not me. I was asking about Bridges.
I can see why you dont want to discuss Bridges a bit of a sore point how weak he apparently is, Dagger collins should sort that out soon for you though.

Simon Bridges is a total shmuck. If National don’t ditch him they will loose the next election. Much the same situation that the democrats put themselves in by backing Hillary

husaberg

24th January 2019, 08:32

Simon Bridges is a total shmuck. If National don’t ditch him they will loose the next election.

We agree on that. i am sure hes might be a decent dude down deep, but he comes across a arrogant smarmy little gitt that daddy promoted due to his last name, well out of his depth.
I see Cameron Slatter was that amazed Bridges was still leader he had a stroke.
Hes came out blaming the media for his stroke. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/110057461/whale-oil-blogger-cameron-slater-partially-disabled-after-stroke
Rather than his diet health, weight, personal history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2houSdLjKBw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUdYgBhF9-w
Considering the whale bloogers seefood diet i fail to see how he might not think it might have been other reasons that contributed.
While he doesn't even roll with the punches. I wish him well and a recovery and better diet plus some exercise.

TheDemonLord

24th January 2019, 10:01

Things like, it doesn't matter how much money you have or whether you're an aspiring All Black, if you're guilty of the crime you will be penalised just like anyone else would.

(Oh, and it would be good to not have cops lying under oath too).

The first presupposes that there is not a bell curve of competency in Lawyers and that those at the top end can charge accordingly for their services. Having access to the best lawyer is not something you can control for - However the legal system does make some allowances - in the form of Pro-Bono work.

Aspiring All Black - I agree with the sentiment - depending on the crime, a degree of leniency can be warranted if there is a reasonable expectation of exponential good in the foreseeable future. Now, this isn't always perfect - the Girl who drank drive and killed the cyclist recently springs to mind where she was clearly not sorry for her actions.

But I find your statement interesting - in the principals above, you ask to stick rigidly to the letter of the law, with no reference to personal circumstances - yet the catalyst to the original discussion was the letter of the law being applied rigidly, with no reference to personal circumstances.

When I asked about Principals - I hope this has highlighted (at the very least) why the system is both imperfect and why it's extremely difficult to make it better.

As for Cops lying under Oath - it would also be nice if ANY witness didn't lie under Oath, but alas people are Human and so they can and do lie. Show me a method of dedicating with 100% accuracy if they are lying and I'll be the first to champion it.

jasonu

24th January 2019, 11:05

We agree on that. i am sure hes might be a decent dude down deep, but he comes across a arrogant smarmy little gitt that daddy promoted due to his last name, well out of his depth.
I see Cameron Slatter was that amazed Bridges was still leader he had a stroke.
Hes came out blaming the media for his stroke. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/110057461/whale-oil-blogger-cameron-slater-partially-disabled-after-stroke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2houSdLjKBw
Considering the whale bloogers seefood diet i fail to see how he might not think it might have been other reasons that contributed.
He doesn't even roll with the punches. I wish him well and a recovery and better diet plus some exercise.

Yeah I saw that. As far as I am concerned Slater is a fat fucking slob who got what anyone with any clue about diet and exercise could easily have predicted.

Ocean1

24th January 2019, 11:41

You are the one with straw men hollow in fact you had the tin man as well as the lion without any courage.
Go on then list exactly what is it he said you have issues with that were not Part of Nationals election campaign that you so supported then this should be fun.

Oh sticks and stones now. :laugh:

Stick to the relevant facts, dude, all of the hand-wringing embarrassment that is Andrew Little's speech about colonisation and the NZ justice system is in the article. Go read it.

And if you don't find that embarrassingly cringe-worthy maybe you could list exactly which bits you think most Kiwis might find particularly offensive.

husaberg

24th January 2019, 11:52

Oh sticks and stones now. :laugh:

Stick relevant facts, dude, all of the hand-wringing embarrassment that is Andrew Little's speech about colonisation and the NZ justice system is in the article. Go read it.

And if you don't find that embarrassingly cringe-worthy maybe you could list exactly which bits you think most Kiwis might find particularly offensive.

Oh so now thats all that your were concerned about rather than the whole speech.
Now i have as i have already pointed out most of his speach including the justice system was also the National party platform.
As was reducing the disproportional number of Maori in prisons.
National also said the current justice sytem was not working and the wanted to make improvements
The fact NZ has one of the highest imprisonment rates in the world back that up. 162 out of 223 with most below us tin pot nations, islands and us colonies and human rights abusers
The performance of Maori in schools and education was also a National party platform for the 2017 election
So I are going to need you to list out exactly what was in the speech that you dont like.
So i can compare them to Nationals policy and statements for you. As you don't seem to remember it that well now you are getting so old and forgetful.

Banditbandit

24th January 2019, 15:11

I see Cameron Slatter was that amazed Bridges was still leader he had a stroke.
Hes came out blaming the media for his stroke.

People do strange things after a stroke - their brain is fucked up ..

husaberg

24th January 2019, 17:22

People do strange things after a stroke - their brain is fucked up ..

Should we go back to 1994 and test Katman

Voltaire

25th January 2019, 06:03

oldrider

25th January 2019, 07:39

mashman

25th January 2019, 10:09

husaberg

25th January 2019, 11:26

Kiwbuild Score in Auckland so far:

- 28,

Yes folks there are now 28 State Houses less than a year ago.

Phil builds them and Phil bowls them.:eek5:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12195720

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/eastern-courier/108624903/removal-of-61-properties-to-create-space-for-eastern-busway-has-officially-kickedoff?fbclid=IwAR0HQLKA0XM0nNgs0paTqPbcSRyPj8H Q4sFQcI2I93v7vq_hhWEi6q0kXTQ
the last goverment ran down the total by 5000 then they tried to sell off another 2500 in CHCH plus more totalling 4000 all up. in one year.
It takes time to build the new homes esp if you arer going to redevelop other sites to more condensed city living like the Mangere development. which alone will provide 10000 homes
2700 old state houses replaced by 10000 new houses of which 3500 will be kiwibuild.
So while it easy to scoff from the cheap seats quite simply if we had a national goverment they wouls be building zero new homes and would have sold off at least 4000 by now.
But your interest in the housing situation is funny considering the whole time national was in power they denied there was a housing crisis.

jasonu

25th January 2019, 12:58

the last goverment ran down the total by 5000 then they tried to sell off another 2500 in CHCH plus more totalling 4000 all up. in one year.
It takes time to build the new homes esp if you arer going to redevelop other sites to more condensed city living like the Mangere development. which alone will provide 10000 homes
2700 old state houses replaced by 10000 new houses of which 3500 will be kiwibuild.
So while it easy to scoff from the cheap seats quite simply if we had a national goverment they wouls be building zero new homes and would have sold off at least 4000 by now.
But your interest in the housing situation is funny considering the whole time national was in power they denied there was a housing crisis.

Yes mate you are correct. It does take time to build houses. A fact your lot should have considered before promising to build 1000 new houses per year...

Voltaire

25th January 2019, 13:49

I scoff at Goff ( only coz it rhymes)

They have knocked down a few State Houses in my area, putting up 3 level tilt slab apartments. Good use of space, possibly not in keeping with the low rise of the area but such is life.
Be interested to see how well the tennants keep them.

Swoop

25th January 2019, 15:37

S'ok, National will promise to sort it.
They'd be too late since Liarbour has <strike>promised</strike> bribed to "sort it" within this term.

The clock is ticking and the failure is rampant. No surprises really.

mashman

25th January 2019, 17:14

They'd be too late since Liarbour has <strike>promised</strike> bribed to "sort it" within this term.

The clock is ticking and the failure is rampant. No surprises really.

Yeah but National did nothing before Labour. Then Labour did nothing before National. The National did nothing before Labour. Then Labour did nothing before National. I kinda get the sneaky suspicion that neither are gonna do anything given the history of progress so far. Picking one side over another is just plain stupid when both are exactly the same.

Voltaire

25th January 2019, 19:02

Yeah but National did nothing before Labour. Then Labour did nothing before National. The National did nothing before Labour. Then Labour did nothing before National. I kinda get the sneaky suspicion that neither are gonna do anything given the history of progress so far. Picking one side over another is just plain stupid when both are exactly the same.

Oh no....you can't criticise dinosaur parties from the 1930's.
I suppose young people should take more interest in who is shafting them.

Ocean1

25th January 2019, 19:10

Yeah but National did nothing before Labour. Then Labour did nothing before National. The National did nothing before Labour. Then Labour did nothing before National. I kinda get the sneaky suspicion that neither are gonna do anything given the history of progress so far. Picking one side over another is just plain stupid when both are exactly the same.

It's almost as if some people don't earn enough to pay for a new house at prices inflated by local govt, and the rest aren't keen to subsidise them more than they already do.

mashman

26th January 2019, 09:00

Oh no....you can't criticise dinosaur parties from the 1930's.
I suppose young people should take more interest in who is shafting them.

Oh, shit, er, er, yeah I wasn't criticising, just pointing out the history of it all. Funny how the government gets blamed given that there are enough houses to house everyone in the country, with excess for warm bodies.

It's almost as if some people don't earn enough to pay for a new house at prices inflated by local govt, and the rest aren't keen to subsidise them more than they already do.

:killingme@local govt. I knew I shouldn't have popped by on myopia night.

husaberg

26th January 2019, 10:04

at prices inflated by local govt, .

Oh that's an intersting take.
Especially considering you have for years denied there was no idsue with housing affordability.
I can imagine the wining you would do if Goldmans Sachs prediction about a 40% chance of NZ housing market going bust they made when National was in goverment.
From memory they rated NZ housing market as the second most over valued in the world but it wasn't local government policies they blamed for it.
Hell even Stephen Joice admitted the reason was "historically low interest rates and supply shortages."

Ocean1

26th January 2019, 10:58

Oh that's an intersting take.
Especially considering you have for years denied there was no idsue with housing affordability.
I can imagine the wining you would do if Goldmans Sachs prediction about a 40% chance of NZ housing market going bust they made when National was in goverment.
From memory they rated NZ housing market as the second most over valued in the world but it wasn't local government policies they blamed for it.
Hell even Stephen Joice admitted the reason was "historically low interest rates and supply shortages."

I have never at any time denied there was idsues with entry level housing affordability. Nor have I ever said houses in general aren't more expensive than they could be.

........... came true? Can I suggest that you rely a bit less on your imagination? In fact should the market have dived to that extent I'd have been well pleased, it would have meant govt had stopped fucking with the market, removed the supply line monopolies and repealed the RMA.

And I doubt Steven Joyce was "admitting" anything, it's a statement of simple economic fact: people borrow what they're comfortable paying back, lower interest rates = bigger houses from the same budget = higher average new house prices. And supply shortages caused by local govt rorts and the resource management farce are indeed what cause most of the problem at the other end.

But you go right ahead and regulate the shit out of the market, that's what got us here but who knows, more of the same might fix it, eh?

husaberg

26th January 2019, 11:15

I have never at any time denied there was idsues with entry level housing affordability. Nor have I ever said houses in general aren't more expensive than they could be.

........... came true? Can I suggest that you rely a bit less on your imagination? In fact should the market have dived to that extent I'd have been well pleased, it would have meant govt had stopped fucking with the market, removed the supply line monopolies and repealed the RMA.

And I doubt Steven Joyce was "admitting" anything, it's a statement of simple economic fact: people borrow what they're comfortable paying back, lower interest rates = bigger houses from the same budget = higher average new house prices. And supply shortages caused by local govt rorts and the resource management farce are indeed what cause most of the problem at the other end.

But you go right ahead and regulate the shit out of the market, that's what got us here but who knows, more of the same might fix it, eh?
Sorry Goldman Sachs doesn't agree with you. nor does Stephen joycev Joicye joice joice
New Zealand housing market overvalued, could go bust, says Goldman Sachs
Bloomberg reports that Goldman looked at housing markets in the G-10 countries -those with the 10 most-traded currencies in the world - and finds they are most elevated in small, open economies such as New Zealand, where house prices have rocketed in recent years.

We need to be cautious with the Goldman Sachs report because the model is very sensitive. They define a bust as a 5 per cent decline in real house prices," he said.
"The Government has a number of measures in place to influence both demand and supply in the housing market, with LVR restrictions and the bright line test moderating demand, and significant regulatory activity encouraging supply, plus of course the Crown house building programme which has been expanded significantly today.
"New Zealand is currently experiencing a building boom with 30,000 houses being built, a third of which are in Auckland. House prices in Auckland have also been flat to slightly falling over the last nine months.
House buyers were right to be cautious at this stage of the cycle, he said.
"The big increase in house building we are seeing and the lift in world economic activity means two of the big influences on house prices, historically low interest rates and supply shortages, are starting to come towards the end of their run."

mashman

26th January 2019, 11:47

Just listened to that TOP fella, Geoffrey, in regards to his anti-capital gains tax stance. His logic was that the two countries that are worse than NZ in terms of House to Income price ratios should be a deterrent to any government not to pursue such a thing.

Poland has a capital gains tax (https://www.imf.org/external/research/housing/). Here endeth the lesson... Voting for TOP is a vote for wilful ignorance.

Argument settled. You're welcome.

Ocean1

26th January 2019, 13:02

Sorry Goldman Sachs doesn't agree with you. nor does Stephen joycev Joicye joice joice
New Zealand housing market overvalued, could go bust, says Goldman Sachs
Bloomberg reports that Goldman looked at housing markets in the G-10 countries -those with the 10 most-traded currencies in the world - and finds they are most elevated in small, open economies such as New Zealand, where house prices have rocketed in recent years.

No, I'm not replying to what you THINK you read in my post.

But if you ever do actually manage your comprehension such that your extreme prejudices don't spin shit in directions only you can follow then I'd be glad to discuss it rationally.

husaberg

26th January 2019, 13:14

No, I'm not replying to what you THINK you read in my post.

But if you ever do actually manage your comprehension such that your extreme prejudices don't spin shit in directions only you can follow then I'd be glad to discuss it rationally.

Whatever, How about you reply to what i write plus Goodman Sachs assertion that you are barking up the 100% wrong tree.
or better still Bury your head and blame the commies for all that you neither like or understand while worshiping the shear brilliance of Right wing greed that is neither sustainable or good for the majority of people.
You rejoice when national borrows money to pay for tax cuts and you moan like an petulant child when labour pays overseas debt and balances the books.
You go on about how everything should be user pays then moan about regional fuel taxs to pay for regional development.

Swoop

26th January 2019, 13:27

The CGT being tabled by the retard Cullen, is reportedly as bad as that of Russia and China. Not surprising since the labourite-sect follows the communist ideal...

Of interest is the Tooth Monster now back-stepping faster than a fat kid from a salad bar, in regards to supporting the film industry in NZ.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12195991

After the furore with national propping up film making in NZ (to employ people and businesses) when labour was not in power, what hypocrisy level do they stoop to?

Swoop

26th January 2019, 13:38

This is what socialism gets you.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12196625

A dictatorship by any other name (like cuba, china and russia...).

TheDemonLord

26th January 2019, 15:10

This is what socialism gets you.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12196625

A dictatorship by any other name (like cuba, china and russia...).

I remember when Jeremy Corbyn was touting Venezuala as a proof of the Success of Socialism...

Katman

26th January 2019, 15:13

I remember when Jeremy Corbyn was touting Venezuala as a proof of the Success of Socialism...

Maybe he doesn't bother reading the Herald.

TheDemonLord

26th January 2019, 15:37

Maybe he doesn't bother reading the Herald.

I suspect he's an Avid Guardian Reader....

Ocean1

26th January 2019, 15:38

I remember when Jeremy Corbyn was touting Venezuala as a proof of the Success of Socialism...

Unfortunately local supporters can't see the link between those socialists and the ones making the same promises here.

I must admit the whole concept that "the system" should pay for your shit no matter how productive you are is really, really attractive, and if it weren't for the fact that it's so obviously an unsustainable crock of shit I'd be first in the queue.

carbonhed

26th January 2019, 16:39

I remember when Jeremy Corbyn was touting Venezuala as a proof of the Success of Socialism...

It takes a spectacular level of incompetence to take a country with the largest proven oil reserves in the world and fuck it up completely... but then there's socialism.

I can hear the hordes of dickheads rushing to claim "but that wasn't real socialism!". Because being a leftard means never having to say "yeah, we fucked another country up".

TheDemonLord

26th January 2019, 16:41

It takes a spectacular level of incompetence to take a country with the largest proven oil reserves in the world and fuck it up completely... but then there's socialism.

I can hear the hordes of dickheads rushing to claim "but that wasn't real socialism!". Because being a leftard means never having to say "yeah, we fucked another country up".

The funniest part was, before it descended into Chaos - all of them were pointing to it as a shining example of Socialism... Rats always find a way to jump from a sinking ship...

husaberg

26th January 2019, 16:46

The funniest part was, before it descended into Chaos - all of them were pointing to it as a shining example of Socialism... Rats always find a way to jump from a sinking ship...

I don't think so, i seen it being held up by the oldies and mashies and so forth as the shining example of how great it was because it existed without the without interference of the jew/NWO/shapeshifting lizard cartel of bankers.
Oldie i believe even likened in to pre WW2 Germany, ut i cant be arsed finding that as the thread is in pd, anyone who claims the KB search function is shit is an idiot, the just need to learn how to use a computer properly

oldie
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140713-Stupid-World?p=1131119251&highlight=venezuela#post1131119251
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/183394-Wanted-A-Better-Quality-of-Fake-News?p=1131054566&highlight=venezuela#post1131054566
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/182896-North-Korea-s-future-or-lack-thereof?p=1131043813&highlight=venezuela#post1131043813
mashie
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/122031-My-first-poll-for-the-NZ-public/page96?p=1130890205#post1130890205
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140713-Stupid-World?p=1130841100#post1130841100
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140713-Stupid-World?p=1130983209&highlight=venezuela#post1130983209

katspam
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140713-Stupid-World?p=1130983159#post1130983159
plus below lol

Katman

26th January 2019, 16:52

It takes a spectacular level of incompetence to take a country with the largest proven oil reserves in the world and fuck it up completely... but then there's socialism.

Did you miss the bit about their oil reserves attracting endless interference from foreign powers.

Maybe if they were left the fuck alone instead of facing manipulation by external forces things might be different.

TheDemonLord

26th January 2019, 17:03

Katman

26th January 2019, 17:08

And weigh them against all the cases where they haven't - I'm not saying the Justice system is perfect - but for the most part, it does work - and this rhetoric of 'it's completely broken' is both unhelpful and dangerous.

8 months home detention.

Do you care to comment?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/110174662/the-fall-from-grace-of-grant-hannis--the-academic-who-sexually-assaulted-a-rest-home-resident

carbonhed

26th January 2019, 18:21

Socialism dindu nuffin'

:lol: I called them and they came!

Maduro must be allowed to complete the Glorious Peoples Revolution until everybody is either dead or gone. Only then will true ideological purity be achieved.

Actually... inequality levels have gone down over the past decade in Venezuela... now they're ALL looking hungrily at dogs. Plus child mortality rates from starvation have plummeted since it became illegal to record child deaths from starvation as child deaths from starvation. Another triumph of socialism!

jasonu

26th January 2019, 18:24

8 months home detention.

Do you care to comment?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/110174662/the-fall-from-grace-of-grant-hannis--the-academic-who-sexually-assaulted-a-rest-home-resident

Don't forget the 100 hours of community work (which he will never do) and the $3000 he has to pay to the victim (probably at $15 a week) which she will never see.

TheDemonLord

26th January 2019, 19:08

8 months home detention.

Do you care to comment?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/110174662/the-fall-from-grace-of-grant-hannis--the-academic-who-sexually-assaulted-a-rest-home-resident

Do you take him out back and shoot him (either literally or metaphorically) or do you grant some form of leniency owing to it being (from all we know) a once off, isolated event?

In this case - yeah, the punishment does seem rather light - but consider the flipside - if we say first time offenders should get the book thrown at them, then I'm sure you (or someone similar) would find a case of some poor kid who committed a crime with a specific set of circumstances, but got an overly harsh sentance.

Point is - it's hard to come up with Principals and Policies that work for every situation, in theory that is why we have judges, to help with the Fringe cases - but they too are human and prone to error.

Does all that - justify tearing it down and replacing it with?

Katman

26th January 2019, 19:31

Do you take him out back and shoot him (either literally or metaphorically) or do you grant some form of leniency owing to it being (from all we know) a once off, isolated event?

In this case - yeah, the punishment does seem rather light - but consider the flipside - if we say first time offenders should get the book thrown at them, then I'm sure you (or someone similar) would find a case of some poor kid who committed a crime with a specific set of circumstances, but got an overly harsh sentance.

Point is - it's hard to come up with Principals and Policies that work for every situation, in theory that is why we have judges, to help with the Fringe cases - but they too are human and prone to error.

Does all that - justify tearing it down and replacing it with?

Dude, by the time you're in your 50's you've had plenty of time to learn the limits of society's acceptance.

Fuck him, chop his cock off.

TheDemonLord

26th January 2019, 20:09

Dude, by the time you're in your 50's you've had plenty of time to learn the limits of society's acceptance.

Fuck him, chop his cock off.

So, if you want to make no allowances for circumstances - why was the Justice system wrong to charge the Lady in the other case?

In your first case: The system is wrong because it didn't take the circumstances into account.
In this case: The system is wrong because it took circumstances too much into account.

husaberg

26th January 2019, 20:35

So, if you want to make no allowances for circumstances - why was the Justice system wrong to charge the Lady in the other case?

In your first case: The system is wrong because it didn't take the circumstances into account.
In this case: The system is wrong because it took circumstances too much into account.

Remember when he said just because the guy who had plead guilty for another sexual assault the police should have known he wasn't guilty.

Fuck me, you need everything spelled out for you, don't you?
gave a false confession which the police should have been suspicious of
or how Scott Watson Was innocent
David Bain was innocent
Steven Wallace wasn't putting a police officers life in danger by attempting to attack him with a softball bat.
Mark Lundy was innocent

AllanB

26th January 2019, 21:03

Talking to my mum who turned 79 today. She tells me that the tooth fairy will get another term due to her fairy dust personality but the following three years will be hard on them as they fail to perform.

mashman

27th January 2019, 09:59

Did you miss the bit about their oil reserves attracting endless interference from foreign powers.

Maybe if they were left the fuck alone instead of facing manipulation by external forces things might be different.

The logic of the capitalist: The oil price collapses and Venezuela loses approx half its income. Nah, must be socialism :killingme...

carbonhed

27th January 2019, 11:29

The logic of the capitalist: The oil price collapses and Venezuela loses approx half its income. Nah, must be socialism :killingme...

Norway is completely on it's uppers too. Must need more socialism!

Maduro must stay!

Everybody needs more socialism!

husaberg

27th January 2019, 11:36

Norway is completely on it's uppers too. Must need more socialism!

Maduro must stay!

Everybody needs more socialism!

Just as all right wing dictatorships end well?
All governments that suffer from corruption fail whether left or right wing.
What democracy does russia have now? is it right wing or left
they hold elections like Zimbabwe does but there can be only one winner.
The state might not own the factories and companies but is a closed shop of friends of the state who own and control everything including the media.
its almost like Russia ended up the total right wing ideal where the rich few control everything and there is no middle class,
Is that not the right wing nirvana.
Nor does it end where the only food is MacDonalds the currency is a big mac and everyone ends up somehow working for MacDonalds on a farm, factory, bakery or delivery driver for MacDonalds.

mashman

27th January 2019, 12:11

Norway is completely on it's uppers too. Must need more socialism!

Maduro must stay!

Everybody needs more socialism!

Sounds like Norway ain't the only one on the uppers. They certainly don't need more capitalism.

carbonhed

27th January 2019, 14:06

Sounds like Norway ain't the only one on the uppers. They certainly don't need more capitalism.

:laugh: from the man that put the "Chav" in Chavista.

mashman

27th January 2019, 14:33

:laugh: from the man that put the "Chav" in Chavista.

Scally... at least get it right just for variety sake ya Cuntree bumpkin :).

Swoop

27th January 2019, 16:03

I remember when Jeremy Corbyn was touting Venezuala as a proof of the Success of Socialism...
Another total fuckwit. The damage he could do to the UK is unimaginable.

Did you miss the bit about their oil reserves attracting endless interference from foreign powers.
Maybe if they were left the fuck alone instead of facing manipulation by external forces things might be different.
Isn't it odd that China and Russia - other "external forces" - are walking away from this? China is trying to get its "loans" back without collapsing the entire country (challenging, at best).

The logic of the capitalist: The oil price collapses and Venezuela loses approx half its income. Nah, must be socialism :killingme...
Nope. They fucked it all up on their own.
Socialism promotes capitalism, just look at the GREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED of the dictators.
The peasant classes get to suffer at the hands of the socialist oppressors.

mashman

27th January 2019, 17:00

Nope. They fucked it all up on their own.

That's just stupid.

Socialism promotes capitalism, just look at the GREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED of the dictators.

Exactly. It's a failure of capitalism. Glad you agree.

The peasant classes get to suffer at the hands of the socialist oppressors.

Exactly again. Socialism promotes capitalism. It's a failure of capitalism. After all, if Venezuela hadn't have been involved in the fall in oil price, they wouldn't have had to print money to deal with the shortfall. Money money money = capitalism.

Go on, spin me another.

Ocean1

27th January 2019, 17:26

It's a failure of capitalism.

Well of course. History amply demonstrates that if you put socialists in power long enough they'll cause capitalism to fail every time, followed immediately by economic collapse.

All the more reason to shoot the greedy cunts on sight.

mashman

27th January 2019, 18:05

Well of course. History amply demonstrates that if you put socialists in power long enough they'll cause capitalism to fail every time, followed immediately by economic collapse.

All the more reason to shoot the greedy cunts on sight.

And yet the same thing happens when the libertarian/neoliberal/liberal/dictatorship/rational anarchists (still makes me laugh) etc... are in power. The failure is entirely capitalisms. It is a mathematical certainty. Unless you're myopic that is.

Swoop

27th January 2019, 18:18

Socialism promotes capitalism. It's a failure of capitalism.
Wrong. Socialsts' are humans who like to "have stuff" (food and clothes are high on their list, but that's another issue) so when they crawl up the ladder ("but everyone is equa"l I hear you call, even though Stalin states "some are more equal than others") they want things.
That is a failure of socialism. Not only to provide the essentials of life, but privileges as well.

So. Socialism = failure.

mashman

27th January 2019, 18:40

Wrong. Socialsts' are humans who like to "have stuff" (food and clothes are high on their list, but that's another issue) so when they crawl up the ladder ("but everyone is equa"l I hear you call, even though Stalin states "some are more equal than others") they want things.
That is a failure of socialism. Not only to provide the essentials of life, but privileges as well.

So. Socialism = failure.

Socialists are capitalists, who knew. The failure is a lack of money that wasn't as much of an issue pre oil price crash. Capitalism. End of.

Ocean1

27th January 2019, 18:43

And yet the same thing happens when the libertarian/neoliberal/liberal/dictatorship/rational anarchists (still makes me laugh) etc... are in power. The failure is entirely capitalisms. It is a mathematical certainty. Unless you're myopic that is.

Any governing ideology can damage capitalism, it's not a governing system, it's a production system. The outfit least likely to parasitise that productive system are libertarians. Minimum govt, minimum interference with personal choice and personal responsibility.

But, y'know, every looser deserves their share of the loot, eh?

mashman

27th January 2019, 19:04

Any governing ideology can damage capitalism, it's not a governing system, it's a production system. The outfit least likely to parasitise that productive system are libertarians. Minimum govt, minimum interference with personal choice and personal responsibility.

But, y'know, every looser deserves their share of the loot, eh?

Of course it's a governing system. Budget Constraint. lol@parasites. Earth Overshoot sees BAU consume 1 years worth of sustainable resource every 7 months. But by all means keep crying about how much power government should and shouldn't have. Capitalism is mathematically doomed to failure. All capitalists are parasites according to the data/evidence/facts/proof/direct observation/trends/forecasts etc... but yeah, keep on "earning" your way to death and justifying your contribution to the highly evidenced destruction of the planet.

S'ok... you can close the other eye and it'll all go away.

pete376403

27th January 2019, 19:11

even though Stalin states "some are more equal than others") .

Nope, that was one of the pigs in "Animal Farm" by George Orwell (although it was a parody of the USSR)

husaberg

27th January 2019, 19:13

Well of course. History amply demonstrates that if you put socialists in power long enough they'll cause capitalism to fail every time, followed immediately by economic collapse.

All the more reason to shoot the greedy cunts on sight.

Funny if only reality did not show otherwise

Panic of 1907 New York Stock exchange fell 43%
Date plus 3 terms prior
President Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep

The Great Depression 1929
Date plus 3 terms prior
President Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Dem, Rep, Rep, Rep,

Black Monday (1987) Wall Street Crash
Date plus 3 terms prior
President during Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Dem, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Dem, Dem, Dem, Dem

Financial crisis of 2007–2008
date plus 3 terms prior
President during Rep Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Dem, Rep Rep Rep Dem,
Congress Dem, Rep Rep Rep Rep

Ocean1

27th January 2019, 20:13

Funny if only reality did not show otherwise

Panic of 1907 New York Stock exchange fell 43%
Date plus 3 terms prior
President Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep

The Great Depression 1929
Date plus 3 terms prior
President Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Dem, Rep, Rep, Rep,

Black Monday (1987) Wall Street Crash
Date plus 3 terms prior
President during Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Dem, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Dem, Dem, Dem, Dem

Financial crisis of 2007–2008
date plus 3 terms prior
President during Rep Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Dem, Rep Rep Rep Dem,
Congress Dem, Rep Rep Rep Rep

Dude, nobody other than you lives in that particular "reality".

Thank fuck.

husaberg

27th January 2019, 20:19

Dude, nobody other than you lives in that particular "reality".

Thank fuck.

So the 4 biggest financial collapses i just posted were in your opion Socialists fault because were they otherwise you were talking out of your bumhole.
Which you clearly were

or are you saying you never said

History amply demonstrates that if you put socialists in power long enough they'll cause capitalism to fail every time, followed immediately by economic collapse.

All the more reason to shoot the greedy cunts on sight.

Murray

27th January 2019, 20:25

8 months home detention.

Do you care to comment?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/110174662/the-fall-from-grace-of-grant-hannis--the-academic-who-sexually-assaulted-a-rest-home-resident

Do you take him out back and shoot him (either literally or metaphorically) or do you grant some form of leniency owing to it being (from all we know) a once off, isolated event?

In this case - yeah, the punishment does seem rather light - but consider the flipside - if we say first time offenders should get the book thrown at them, then I'm sure you (or someone similar) would find a case of some poor kid who committed a crime with a specific set of circumstances, but got an overly harsh sentance.

Point is - it's hard to come up with Principals and Policies that work for every situation, in theory that is why we have judges, to help with the Fringe cases - but they too are human and prone to error.

Does all that - justify tearing it down and replacing it with?

Hey Demonlord imagine its YOUR mother/grandmother. This is shit and he gets reduced sentence because he didnt have name suppression. What an absolute load of shit.YES take him out the back and shoot him!! Think what you would want if it was your family!

TheDemonLord

27th January 2019, 22:56

Hey Demonlord imagine its YOUR mother/grandmother. This is shit and he gets reduced sentence because he didnt have name suppression. What an absolute load of shit.YES take him out the back and shoot him!! Think what you would want if it was your family!

You miss the point I'm trying to make to Katman - A system which sticks rigidly to the rules is cold, ruthless and uncaring - just like in the example he initially posted.

A system with Leniency will be lenient towards those who don't deserve it. As in this case.

Both examples show a failing of the Justice system, but each one shows a failing on a different side. If we make it more unyielding, then cases such as the first one will occur with a higher frequency (and Katman will complain), If we make it more Lenient, then cases such as this one will occur with a higher frequeny (and Katman will complain).

The point is to show that what is needed more in one particular case, is the opposite to what is needed more in a different case - and that's a paradox that has yet to be solved.

TheDemonLord

27th January 2019, 22:58

I see our resident Marxist (just don't tell him that, he gets all pissy) has arrived to extol the virtue of a fantasy system that has never worked in any single implementation. Whilst simultaneously trying to critique the very system that gives him all the Freedoms and liberties he currently enjoys.

Also - relevent to this discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq8y-ejapjE

Ocean1

28th January 2019, 06:55

So the 4 biggest financial collapses i just posted were in your opion Socialists fault because were they otherwise you were talking out of your bumhole.
Which you clearly were

or are you saying you never said

Are you saying the recoveries after those events was a reflection of the success of capitalism?

Market fluctuations aren't market failures, you only get failures when socialist fuckwits decide shit should be worth something other that what people will pay for it.

roogazza

28th January 2019, 07:33

340624340625340626340627340628340629

our leader , (of many faces !!!! ). :bleh::facepalm::blink:

Katman

28th January 2019, 08:03

Both examples show a failing of the Justice system, but each one shows a failing on a different side. If we make it more unyielding, then cases such as the first one will occur with a higher frequency (and Katman will complain), If we make it more Lenient, then cases such as this one will occur with a higher frequeny (and Katman will complain).

Both cases are examples of leniency granted to the guilty party - with disregard to the impact the crime has had on the victim.

husaberg

28th January 2019, 09:33

Are you saying the recoveries after those events was a reflection of the success of capitalism?

Market fluctuations aren't market failures, you only get failures when socialist fuckwits decide shit should be worth something other that what people will pay for it.

Well of course. History amply demonstrates that if you put socialists in power long enough they'll cause capitalism to fail every time, followed immediately by economic collapse.

All the more reason to shoot the greedy cunts on sight.

Funny if only reality did not show otherwise

Panic of 1907 New York Stock exchange fell 43%
Date plus 3 terms prior
President Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep

The Great Depression 1929
Date plus 3 terms prior
President Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Dem, Rep, Rep, Rep,

Black Monday (1987) Wall Street Crash
Date plus 3 terms prior
President during Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Dem, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Dem, Dem, Dem, Dem

Financial crisis of 2007–2008
date plus 3 terms prior
President during Rep Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Dem, Rep Rep Rep Dem,
Congress Dem, Rep Rep Rep Rep

you are full of it you posted crap and you were caught out posting crap.
So man up or slink off.

Swoop

28th January 2019, 12:37

Socialists are capitalists, who knew.
Yup.
The higher up the ladder a socialist goes in a "socialist environment", the more he becomes a capitalist.

All capitalists are parasites...
No, all humans are parasites.

Ocean1

28th January 2019, 12:49

you are full of it you posted crap and you were caught out posting crap.
So man up or slink off.

No, we already did this bit. See:

Are you saying the recoveries after those events was a reflection of the success of capitalism?

You going to answer the question, there?

mashman

28th January 2019, 15:28

Yup.
The higher up the ladder a socialist goes in a "socialist environment", the more he becomes a capitalist.

No, all humans are parasites.

Hardly surprising given that the world revolves around capitalism, especially the higher up you go. Even communists are capitalists.

No, plenty of humans are part of a symbiotic ecosystem, not all... and given the choice, when faced with the Earth Overshoot evidence, even the hardcore capitalist realises that they have to yield if there is to be a future... well, the hard core capitalist who isn't rote learned that is.

husaberg

28th January 2019, 15:46

No, we already did this bit. See:

You going to answer the question, there?

Answer what question you are making out i said stuff i clearly never did
Which would be funny if at the same time you weren't denying you made up shit aposted it and got caught out.
Kb already has one Katman thry don't really need another one

Well of course. History amply demonstrates that if you put socialists in power long enough they'll cause capitalism to fail every time, followed immediately by economic collapse.

All the more reason to shoot the greedy cunts on sight.

Funny if only reality did not show otherwise

Panic of 1907 New York Stock exchange fell 43%
Date plus 3 terms prior
President Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep

The Great Depression 1929
Date plus 3 terms prior
President Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Dem, Rep, Rep, Rep,

Black Monday (1987) Wall Street Crash
Date plus 3 terms prior
President during Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Dem, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Dem, Dem, Dem, Dem

Financial crisis of 2007–2008
date plus 3 terms prior
President during Rep Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Dem, Rep Rep Rep Dem,
Congress Dem, Rep Rep Rep Rep

Are you saying the recoveries after those events was a reflection of the success of capitalism?
.

i have clearly never said anything at all other than the post that shows you are 100% full of it, in stating every economic collapse is caused by socialists.

Ocean1

28th January 2019, 17:42

Are you saying the recoveries after those events was a reflection of the success of capitalism?

you are full of it you posted crap and you were caught out posting crap.
So man up or slink off.

No, we already did this bit. See:

Are you saying the recoveries after those events was a reflection of the success of capitalism?

You going to answer the question, there?

Answer what question you are making out i said stuff i clearly never did

One last time:

Are you saying the recoveries after those events was a reflection of the success of capitalism?

.............

husaberg

28th January 2019, 17:51

You posted made up crap, you got caught it was shown to be made up crap

Well of course. History amply demonstrates that if you put socialists in power long enough they'll cause capitalism to fail every time, followed immediately by economic collapse.

All the more reason to shoot the greedy cunts on sight.

Funny if only reality did not show otherwise

Panic of 1907 New York Stock exchange fell 43%
Date plus 3 terms prior
President Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep

The Great Depression 1929
Date plus 3 terms prior
President Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Dem, Rep, Rep, Rep,

Black Monday (1987) Wall Street Crash
Date plus 3 terms prior
President during Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Dem, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Dem, Dem, Dem, Dem

Financial crisis of 2007–2008
date plus 3 terms prior
President during Rep Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Dem, Rep Rep Rep Dem,
Congress Dem, Rep Rep Rep Rep

Ocean1

28th January 2019, 19:02

You posted made up crap, you got caught it was shown to be made up crap

now you think i have to answer your questions about stuff i never said or posted
Just so you can try and avoid the fact you posted easily discredited made up crap.
Like i said KB already has one Katman they are not currently auditioning for another.

:laugh::laugh::laugh: And you reckon I'm full of crap. :tugger:

TheDemonLord

28th January 2019, 19:57

Both cases are examples of leniency granted to the guilty party - with disregard to the impact the crime has had on the victim.

Without re-reading the first article to be sure - wasn't the reason for the dismissal due to the Statute of Limitations time limit lapsing? In which case, the Leniency was a byproduct of sticking to the letter of the law.

husaberg

28th January 2019, 20:00

:laugh::laugh::laugh: And you reckon I'm full of crap. :tugger:

You 100% are full of it
You posted made up crap, you got caught it was shown to be made up crap.
Then in an mediocre effort to save face you start demanding i answer question about stuff i never said or posted.

Well of course. History amply demonstrates that if you put socialists in power long enough they'll cause capitalism to fail every time, followed immediately by economic collapse.

All the more reason to shoot the greedy cunts on sight.

Funny if only reality did not show otherwise

Panic of 1907 New York Stock exchange fell 43%
Date plus 3 terms prior
President Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep

The Great Depression 1929
Date plus 3 terms prior
President Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Dem, Rep, Rep, Rep,

Black Monday (1987) Wall Street Crash
Date plus 3 terms prior
President during Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Dem, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Dem, Dem, Dem, Dem

Financial crisis of 2007–2008
date plus 3 terms prior
President during Rep Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Dem, Rep Rep Rep Dem,
Congress Dem, Rep Rep Rep Rep

TheDemonLord

28th January 2019, 20:07

Just as all right wing dictatorships end well?
All governments that suffer from corruption fail whether left or right wing.
What democracy does russia have now? is it right wing or left
they hold elections like Zimbabwe does but there can be only one winner.
The state might not own the factories and companies but is a closed shop of friends of the state who own and control everything including the media.
its almost like Russia ended up the total right wing ideal where the rich few control everything and there is no middle class,
Is that not the right wing nirvana.
Nor does it end where the only food is MacDonalds the currency is a big mac and everyone ends up somehow working for MacDonalds on a farm, factory, bakery or delivery driver for MacDonalds.

Nobody on the right will disagree that right wing dictatorships are bad. The Key difference is - can you find me an example of a major right wing Politician, from a major party publicly extolling the virtues of Mussilini, Giovanni Gentile or citing Mein Kampf?

Contrast with:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4483990/David-Gauke-warns-Labour-s-UK-hard-left-experiment.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/08/marx-brothers-jeremy-corbyn-joins-john-mcdonnell-praising-communist/

Or closer to home - Comrade Jacinda's quote (which got her Labelled as a Marxist):

When you allow markets to decide the fate of your people … that does not serve a country or people well.

husaberg

28th January 2019, 20:12

Nobody on the right will disagree that right wing dictatorships are bad. The Key difference is - can you find me an example of a major right wing Politician, from a major party publicly extolling the virtues of Mussilini, Giovanni Gentile or citing Mein Kampf?

Contrast with:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4483990/David-Gauke-warns-Labour-s-UK-hard-left-experiment.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/08/marx-brothers-jeremy-corbyn-joins-john-mcdonnell-praising-communist/

Or closer to home - Comrade Jacinda's quote (which got her Labelled as a Marxist):

I think you will find that few extoll the virtues of Hilter and Mussolini for very good reasons.
All dictatorships are bad. as far as i can think only Franco's ended peacefully but it was only the end it certainly wasn't peaceful for a start.

TheDemonLord

28th January 2019, 20:18

I think you will find that few extoll the virtues of Hilter and Mussolini for very good reasons.
All dictatorships are bad. as far as i can think only Franco's ended peacefully but it was only the end it certainly wasn't peaceful for a start.

That's the point....

husaberg

28th January 2019, 20:39

That's the point....

Not really, your point is not really a point. Your point relies on him being a demon

While i have never really read much of his stuff what i remember was he thought workers should get paid fairly for their efforts.
See when he was about workers toiled away under dirty dangerous conditions with no labour laws these views are hardly surprising really.
maybe you might rather go back to the 19th Century workplace conditions but i would rather not.
What about the 80 hour working week no holidays.
Hes quoting Karl Marx not giving glowing reports of Joe Stalin or Chairman Mao
Marx never did to much other than philosophize he also was an economist of note. otherwise he would be getting talked about now.
He never invaded other countries killed millions or enslaved a country or participated in a dictatorship. like the others you mentioned.
When people are being oppressed i doubt they have a political preference to which either left or right they are oppressed by.
Do you feel the current government is oppressing you? you get to vote if most agree with you the government will change.
I noticed you never responded about Russia. Id be interested to see what your take on what their Government actually is.

Ocean1

29th January 2019, 07:41

You 100% are full of it
You posted made up crap, you got caught it was shown to be made up crap.
Then in an mediocre effort to save face you start demanding i answer question about stuff i never said or posted.

Oh I'm sure you believe market fluctuations in the US prove whatever it is you never seem quite capable of articulating. Presumably socialism good / capitalism bad.

In fact the US govt doesn't control the market. The most you could say is the federal reserve indirectly controls interest rates. And in fact far from a free market failure, your great depression was caused by the federal reserve fucking with interest rates to try to cool the market. The effect was what govt interference in any market usually is: a fucking disaster.

But yeah, but national. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

husaberg

29th January 2019, 08:59

Oh I'm sure you believe market fluctuations in the US prove whatever it is you never seem quite capable of articulating. Presumably socialism good / capitalism bad.

In fact the US govt doesn't control the market. The most you could say is the federal reserve indirectly controls interest rates. And in fact far from a free market failure, your great depression was caused by the federal reserve fucking with interest rates to try to cool the market. The effect was what govt interference in any market usually is: a fucking disaster.

But yeah, but national. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

"You put socialists in power long enough they'll cause capitalism to fail every time, followed immediately by economic collapse" your words
You can attempt to weasle out of it any way you wish.

Panic of 1907 New York Stock exchange fell 43%
Date plus 3 terms prior
President Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep

The Great Depression 1929
Date plus 3 terms prior
President Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Dem, Rep, Rep, Rep,

Black Monday (1987) Wall Street Crash
Date plus 3 terms prior
President during Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Dem, Rep, Rep, Rep, Rep
Congress Dem, Dem, Dem, Dem

Financial crisis of 2007–2008
date plus 3 terms prior
President during Rep Rep, Rep, Rep
Senate Dem, Rep Rep Rep Dem,
Congress Dem, Rep Rep Rep Rep

But calling all these mere market fluctuation makes you look exceedingly foolish
As does using the US as an example of how the government cant interfere
then using an example of the Right wing interference that lead to a world wide economic collapse is just the icing on the cake.

For the record the Wall street crash which lead to the great depression
Was due to multiple factors just as the great depression was.
We have The fundamental structural weaknesses in the American economic system. Banks operated without guarantees to their customers, creating a climate of panic when times got tough. Few regulations were placed on banks and they lent money to those who speculated recklessly in stocks. sound familar.
It is far too simplistic to view the stock market crash as the single cause of the Great Depression. Long-term underlying causes sent the nation into a downward spiral of despair. First, American firms earned record profits during the 1920s and reinvested much of these funds into expansion. By 1929, companies had expanded to the bubble point. Workers could no longer continue to fuel further expansion, so a slowdown was inevitable. While corporate profits, skyrocketed, wages increased incrementally, which widened the distribution of wealth.
The richest one percent of Americans owned over a third of all American assets. Such wealth concentrated in the hands of a few limits economic growth. The wealthy tended to save money that might have been put back into the economy if it were spread among the middle and lower classes. Middle class Americans had already stretched their debt capacities by purchasing automobiles and household appliances on installment plans.
Agricultural prices had already been low during the 1920s, leaving farmers unable to spark any sort of recovery. When the Depression spread across the Atlantic, Europeans bought fewer American products, worsening the slide.
When Republican President Hoover was inaugurated, the American economy was a house of cards. Unable to provide the proper relief from hard times, his popularity decreased as more and more Americans lost their jobs. His minimalist approach to government intervention made little impact . The economy shrank with each successive year of his Presidency. As middle class Americans stood in the same soup lines previously graced only by the nation's poorest, the entire social fabric of America was forever altered.

http://www.ushistory.org/us/48.asp

Ocean1

29th January 2019, 09:32

[B][I]But calling all these mere market fluctuation makes you look exceedingly foolish
As does using the US as an example of how the government cant interfere

And yet that's what they are. Markets. Fluctuating. The fact that you find that description foolish is more a reflection of your blinkered world view than anything else.

And you were the one presenting American market history to prove capitalism causes economic failure. I simply pointed out that the primary cause of that "failure" was govt interference, which, by definition is a socialist ideal. This really shouldn't come as much of a shock given the history of the economic failure of socialism worldwide. Yet you continue to argue from a typically socialist perspective, you want your cake and you also want to eat it.

I also asked if what you call capitalism were responsible for those "failures" whether you think it's responsible for the successes. But your answer is to google "capitalism bad, socialism good" and c/p the results. :laugh:

Still, I don't think there's any danger of anyone taking your endless pro-socialist broadsheet shit seriously, so I'll leave you to wallow in it by yourself, comrade.

husaberg

29th January 2019, 09:42

And yet that's what they are. Markets. Fluctuating. The fact that you find that description foolish is more a reflection of your blinkered world view than anything else.

And you were the one presenting American market history to prove capitalism causes economic failure. I simply pointed out that the primary cause of that "failure" was govt interference, which, by definition is a socialist ideal. This really shouldn't come as much of a shock given the history of the economic failure of socialism worldwide.

Still, I don't think there's any danger of anyone taking your endless pro-socialist broadsheet shit seriously, so I'll leave you to wallow in it by yourself, comrade.

Keep posting another 40 attempts to weasle around or so you might even convince yourself.
unless of course you try and blame socialists for Right wings actions again like you just did. Even you must see thats just more pathetic ramblings.
Saying i post Endless socialist shit is interesting as i clearly only post in return to your easily disproved crap..

Global financial crisis
The great depression
These were not just a simple stock market fluctuations they were world wide recessions that resulted in millions of people losing there life savings (great Deression) that lasted for years. that required massive tax payers to make massive payouts to prop up private companies.

87 stock market crash
"In the US it is known as Black Monday — October 19, 1987, the biggest one-day fall in the history of the stock exchange. Thirty years ago this month, in the era of Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, yuppies and banker chic, the financial world collapsed."Rob Carmeron Investment banker. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12000499

carbonhed

29th January 2019, 11:29

I also asked if what you call capitalism were responsible for those "failures" whether you think it's responsible for the successes. But your answer is to google "capitalism bad, socialism good" and c/p the results. :laugh:

He's a fucking champ of copy and paste is he not? If only there was a career that needed that particular talent!

Never seems to grasp that if he asked the opposite question there would be pages supporting the opposite conclusion too.

Drooling ideologue.

mashman

29th January 2019, 15:23

I simply pointed out that the primary cause of that "failure" was govt interference, which, by definition is a socialist ideal.

Gettin' a grillin' over the GFC. Capitalism and its finest. Not a whiff of socialism in the air... other than the corporate bailout that followed and then ensuing loss of jobs and general economic turmoil. It wasn't the capitalists you say. It was all the fault of socialism you say. Pulease...........

Congressman Henry Waxman "My question is simple. Were you wrong?"

Greenspan "Partially ... I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interest of organisations, specifically banks, is such that they were best capable of protecting shareholders and equity in the firms ... I discovered a flaw in the model that I perceived is the critical functioning structure that defines how the world works. I had been going for 40 years with considerable evidence that it was working exceptionally well. The overall view I take of regulation is, I took an oath of office when I became Federal Reserve chairman. I'm here to uphold the laws of the land passed by Congress, not my own predilections."

husaberg

29th January 2019, 15:59

He's a fucking champ of copy and paste is he not? If only there was a career that needed that particular talent!

Never seems to grasp that if he asked the opposite question there would be pages supporting the opposite conclusion too.

Drooling ideologue.

Really how many other what Oceans is trying to palm off as simple market fluctuations have there been in america where the republicans were not in charge.
Esp Considering ocean posted all economic collapses all occurred under socialists which is clearly untrue.
Maybe if there is screeds of data that shows it happened under the Democrats in the US you should go post it.

I will start you off

Dot Com Bubble
March 2000
President Rep Dem Dem Rep
Senate Rep, Rep, Rep, Dem
Congress Rep, Rep, Rep, Dem

Buggar the was the republicans as well

Rob Cameron whose was a pretty famous NZ investment banker ex Fay Richwite ex Co founder Cameron Partners the guy John Key called in to chair the group to reform the NZ lending rules after the GFC.
He said of the 87 Crash i quote.
the biggest one-day fall in the history of the stock exchange. Thirty years ago this month, in the era of Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, yuppies and banker chic, the financial world collapsed."Rob Carmeron Investment banker.

But yeah Ocean says it was otherwise and who is Rob Cameron to disagree with Ocean

carbonhed

29th January 2019, 18:25

Really how many other what Oceans is trying to palm off as simple market fluctuations have there been in america where the republicans were not in charge.
Esp Considering ocean posted all economic collapses all occurred under socialists which is clearly untrue.
Maybe if there is screeds of data that shows it happened under the Democrats in the US you should go post it.

I will start you off

Dot Com Bubble
March 2000
President Rep Dem Dem Rep
Senate Rep, Rep, Rep, Dem
Congress Rep, Rep, Rep, Dem

Buggar the was the republicans as well

Rob Cameron whose was a pretty famous NZ investment banker ex Fay Richwite ex Co founder Cameron Partners the guy John Key called in to chair the group to reform the NZ lending rules after the GFC.
He said of the 87 Crash i quote.
the biggest one-day fall in the history of the stock exchange. Thirty years ago this month, in the era of Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, yuppies and banker chic, the financial world collapsed."Rob Carmeron Investment banker.

But yeah Ocean says it was otherwise and who is Rob Cameron to disagree with Ocean

Yeah I think everybody knows that husaberks world is black and white. Just like katspams. Endlessly boringly black and white. On and on and on and on and on andonandonandon........

You are a boring motherfucker who persuades nobody. Is that the plan?

Have you ever heard of cognitive bias you fucking tool?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_biashttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias

Swoop

29th January 2019, 18:42

...you want your cake and you also want to eat it.
Mmm. Cake.

Speaking as a person who occasionally has cake in the house, yes I do want to eat it!
What's the point in buying cake and NOT eating it?

Presumably one answer could be to piss off socialists who think they are entitled to my cake?

husaberg

29th January 2019, 19:18

Yeah I think everybody knows that husaberks world is black and white. Just like katspams. Endlessly boringly black and white. On and on and on and on and on andonandonandon........

You are a boring motherfucker who persuades nobody. Is that the plan?

Have you ever heard of cognitive bias you fucking tool?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_biashttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias

You could you ever change your mind, there is so little to change.
But yeah, your echo chamber Ra Ra right wing, So how much of that do you think people take notice of, especially considering its so easily disproved.
Of course you would say you could back it up, But the real truth is you can't. Or you already would have.
Just remember i only respond to your and Oceans so easily disproved katspam.
As for Black and white Ocean made a statement that was black and white only it was not supported by facts you might think thats a shade of grey but its clearly not.
Also Katmans clearly pink in his views and demeanor.

So you never answered, does in your opinion does Ocean really know more than Rob Cameron did about Finance and economics.

Swoop

30th January 2019, 13:52

Well, the tooth monster's visit to Europe to get better trade for the farmers has gone successfully - NOT!

A reduction in trade is possible. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12198590

oldrider

30th January 2019, 16:36

How to garner support and enthusiasm for political policies French style:- https://twitter.com/i/status/1090406601767510016 - as advocated by certain KB posters? :msn-wink:

mashman

30th January 2019, 17:54

How to garner support and enthusiasm for political policies French style:- https://twitter.com/i/status/1090406601767510016 - as advocated by certain KB posters? :msn-wink:

Is it not fascistic to impose a disproportionate tax on the owners of production :shifty:

sidecar bob

30th January 2019, 19:39

husaberg

30th January 2019, 19:44

Oh dear, I'm sure there's a logical explanation apart from the obvious, "they are full of unresearched hot wind that bought votes"
I'll leave the correct explanation to Husa.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/01/can-kiwibuild-be-salvaged-a-building-industry-expert-weighs-in.html

Looks to be a rip roaring success when you scale it back to the fact it was done by politicians.
If its leveled off the house price its achieved one aim at least.
The CHCH rebuild under national only built about 5000 houses a year and they pumped in billions of dollars.
I am more interested in how the ex National mp party whip Jamie Lee Ross is going to go.
Its going to be real awkward for Simon and Sarah Dowie especially seeing she is currently under police investigation for text messages she sent.
340686
She should do a Bill English and say she forgot the 100's of text messages.

Straight up Question Bob, do you think National can win an election with Bridges as its leader?

sidecar bob

30th January 2019, 19:58

Looks to be a rip roaring success when you scale it back to the fact it was done by politicians.
If its leveled off the house price its achieved one aim at least
I am more interested in how the ex National mp party whip Jamie Lee Ross is going to go.
Its going to be real awkward for Simon and Sarah Dowie especially seeing she is currently under investigation for text messages she sent.
340686
She could do a Bill English and say she forgot the 100's of text messages.
Straight up Question Bob, do you think National can win an election with Bridges as its leader?

I'm beyond giving a fuck about that at present & possibly for ever, but great red herring action on your part.

husaberg

30th January 2019, 20:08

I'm beyond giving a fuck about that at present & possibly for ever, but great red herring action on your part.
Red herring, Nah shes more a bluff oyster
What do you think the Kiwibuild questions are suddenly in the news for
its just a lame spin attempt to take the spotlight off the ongoing National party soap opera.
Going to be some awkward moments in the halls.

So you never answered do you think National can win the election with Simon Bridges as leader?
Its an easy question i would have thought

jasonu

31st January 2019, 03:31

Looks to be a rip roaring success when you scale it back to the fact it was done by politicians.

Straight up Question Bob, do you think National can win an election with Bridges as its leader?

You're havin' a laugh!!!!!

and no.

sidecar bob

31st January 2019, 03:47

Red herring, Nah shes more a bluff oyster
What do you think the Kiwibuild questions are suddenly in the news for
its just a lame spin attempt to take the spotlight off the ongoing National party soap opera.
Going to be some awkward moments in the halls.

So you never answered do you think National can win the election with Simon Bridges as leader?
Its an easy question i would have thought

My answer was that I couldn't really give a fuck either way, so you can make that whatever suits your agenda on my behalf.
In your world, news about the real & genuine shortcomings of the govt's actions vs their promises is just to to take the spotlight off National is quite deluded of you & the "can do no wrong" attitude such as you are demonstrating is threatening to our personal freedom.

Ocean1

31st January 2019, 06:22

What do you think the Kiwibuild questions are suddenly in the news for
its just a lame spin attempt to take the spotlight off the ongoing National party soap opera.

Yeah that's the reason.

Nothing to do with labour's complete failure to produce even a couple of percent of what they promised. :laugh::laugh:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/110263289/kiwibuild-to-be-recalibrated-as-interim-targets-are-scrapped

Where did they think the resources to make it work would come from? While in the same breath promising "No New Taxes".

mashman

31st January 2019, 06:36

Where did they think the resources to make it work would come from? While in the same breath promising "No New Taxes".

Probably thought they'd use some of the 70/80 billion that billy bob slime ball borrowed.

husaberg

31st January 2019, 07:22

My answer was that I couldn't really give a fuck either way, so you can make that whatever suits your agenda on my behalf.
In your world, news about the real & genuine shortcomings of the govt's actions vs their promises is just to to take the spotlight off National is quite deluded of you.

Your answer is rather telling
You wont say that if you the current leader of your preerd Gov is capable of wining the next election.
If anyone is trying to shift a spotlight off a subject it plainly you.

So Kiwi built hasnt yet met optimistic targets yet ,big deal,you didn't want kiwibuild anyway, infact you said we didn't need more houses, National did buggar at al in 9 years about building more houses in Auckland.
Hiding their head in the stand saying what housing crisis wasn't particularly successful.
paying out for endless motel rooms for homeless people wasn't successful unless you owned the motels.
Labour had 2 years to fix 9 years of National running down infrastructure and systems.
They also have to pay off the massive overseas Debt national ran up while there were in power but i guess you dont want to talk about that either.

Katman

31st January 2019, 07:25

Your answer is rather telling
You wont say that if you the current leader of your preerd Gov is capable of wining the next election.
If anyone is trying to shift a spotlight off a subject it plainly you.

So Kiwi built hasnt yet met optimistic targets yet big deal,you didn't want kiwibuild anyway, infact you said we didn't need more houses, National did buggar at al in 9 years about building more houses in Auckland.
Hiding their head in the stand saying what housing crisis wasnt particually successfeull.
paying out for endless motel rooms for homless people wasn't successful unless you owned the motels.
Labour had 2 vyears to fix 9 years of National running down infrastructure and systems.
They also have to pay off the massive overseas Debt national ran up while there were in power but i guess you dont want to talk about that either.

Dude, your English is fucking appalling.

sidecar bob

31st January 2019, 07:40

Your answer is rather telling
You wont say that if you the current leader of your preerd Gov is capable of wining the next election.
If anyone is trying to shift a spotlight off a subject it plainly you.

So Kiwi built hasnt yet met optimistic targets yet ,big deal,you didn't want kiwibuild anyway, infact you said we didn't need more houses, National did buggar at al in 9 years about building more houses in Auckland.
Hiding their head in the stand saying what housing crisis wasn't particularly successful.
paying out for endless motel rooms for homeless people wasn't successful unless you owned the motels.
Labour had 2 vyears to fix 9 years of National running down infrastructure and systems.
They also have to pay off the massive overseas Debt national ran up while there were in power but i guess you dont want to talk about that either.

Actually, I'm fucking busy & fulfilled with a life of excitement & stimulation on a daily basis that I can barely comprehend & arguing with a one eyed person about things I can't change seems a waste of my valuable leisure time.
Bridges is a fucking helmet & I doubt they would even win tiddly winks with him at the helm.
There you go.

pritch

31st January 2019, 09:12

Well of course. History amply demonstrates that if you put socialists in power long enough they'll cause capitalism to fail every time, followed immediately by economic collapse.

The Democrat party in the US of A (Socialist light?) is the party that has to rescue the US economy following a Republican (capitalist) president almost every time. Watch this space, it'll happen again. When Trump was told that his multi trillion tax cuts were unsustainable said he didn't care. "I won't be here."

Anyhoo, I saw mention of Steven Wallace.

His family used to run and hide when he nutted off, as he did from time to time. All that is forgotten now though. I'm told his grave is like a shrine, but although it's not very far out of my way I can't be bothered to check. My source was good, both of her parents are in that cemetary. His family are still trying to mount a private prosecution of the police officer involved. Since multiple other enquiries have found no reason to prosecute that does seem pointless.

Perhaps if Wallace had faced the consequences of his actions earlier he may not need to have done so in such a dramatic fashion. That'd mean the family would have to bear some responsibility though.