The 2017 Election Thread

[Ocean1]

This ignores what is a fact. Democrat party in the US of A (Socialist light?) is the party that has to rescue the US economy following a Republican (capitalist) president almost every time.

Yeah. Those market fluctuations are what happens when people are free to spend their money as they see fit. It's a natural corollary of the freedom to buy and sell without a third party "managing" your market. It can be painful, usually amplified by govts attempting to protect those who chose investments unwisely.

The definition of socialism is state ownership of the means of production, there is no private property in a socialist state. Which, in turn means property / benefits are disbursed as the state sees fit, based on what they see as "fair" or "equitable". So when I say socialism leads inevitably to economic collapse I'm not just looking at the historic lack of any economically successful socialist states, I'm looking at the fact that economic success for socialism absolutely depends on the state managing that means of production better than the individuals who actually produce the goods / services, while at the same time providing no benefits commensurate to that production. Yeah right.

It's also true that any govt that wants to control it's citizens to the extent of wanting control over their productive efforts isn't likely to just naturally stop there, the need for control to their own ends isn't something that they'll ever give up progressing. Not even when it becomes obvious that the more they control it the less productive the economy is.

We're a loooong way further down that rabbit hole than what you laughingly call the US's Socialist light, and the tooth fairly, (an actual full blown communist) would have us go even further. Fuck that. But by all means: change my mind. :laugh:

[Ocean1]

Actually, I'm fucking busy & fulfilled with a life of excitement & stimulation on a daily basis that I can barely comprehend & arguing with a one eyed person about things I can't change seems a waste of my valuable leisure time.

Yeah, just ignore them. Until they come for your retirement savings.

Rich prick.

[TheDemonLord]

and the tooth fairly, (an actual full blown communist) would have us go even further.

It's funny that someone can be a member of the Socialist Youth party without any negative consequences.

But if there was someone who'd been a member of the Hitler Youth...

[Ocean1]

It's funny that someone can be a member of the Socialist Youth party without any negative consequences.

But if there was someone who'd been a member of the Hitler Youth...

Individuals are still relatively economically free, here, I must admit.

But that' so obviously a necessary component for economic success that any threat to restrict that freedom just has to be a bad idea.

[husaberg]

I figured it was more polite than 'shitforbrains'.

'Cos I know how sensitive you are about that sort of thing.

You should stay away from maths or anything to do with measuring up, Its is not your strong suit.
Actually ,while your at it. It would be best to stay away from anything that requires logic critical thinking anayasis of results or any research.
Best you stick to what you are mediocre at, seeking attention with narcissistic trolling. Plus posting stupid conspiracy theories

[husaberg]

Yeah that's the reason.

Nothing to do with labour's complete failure to produce even a couple of percent of what they promised. :laugh::laugh:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/110263289/kiwibuild-to-be-recalibrated-as-interim-targets-are-scrapped

Where did they think the resources to make it work would come from? While in the same breath promising "No New Taxes".

Funny how quiet you were on GST going to 15%
Wasn't that what key said ps its on video

Mr Key's response to the question was: "National is not going to be raising GST. National wants to cut taxes not raise taxes.

Mr Key went on to say that if a National government was doing "a half decent job" it wouldn't need to either raise GST or raise taxes.

Not only that
The 2010 ''tax switch'' has not been fiscally neutral, as promised.
National passed legislation that halved the KiwiSaver member tax credit in year starting 1 July 2011.
The asset sales that wouldn't progress unless there was sound financial reasons lost money
Not only this they progressed despite a referendum that didn't support it.




1. GST
The promise: “National is not going to be raising GST. National wants to cut taxes, not raise taxes … what I am saying is if we do a half-decent job as a government at growing our economy I am confident that won't be happening”. (Source: Stuff, 10 February 2010) http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3311679/Key-no-GST-rise-video-emerges

The reality: GST was increased to 15 per cent.

2. Wage Gap with Australia
The promise: “That would be a fundamental purpose of our Government, to narrow the wage gap between ourselves and Australia, and to grow local wages in New Zealand.” (Nexus, Waikato University, Issue 13, 3 Jul 2007)

The reality: The wage gap with Australia has increased by $32 a week.

3. New Zealanders leaving for Australia
The promise: We're here today at Westpac Stadium. It holds nearly 35,000 people. And believe it or not, the equivalent of this entire stadium - and more - leaves every year to permanently live in Australia … I'm convinced we can give them a reason, and a purpose, to stay in New Zealand. And that's why I want to be New Zealand's next Prime Minister. (Source: John Key, Ambitious for New Zealand – Meet John Key DVD, 27 November 2007) http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0711/S00545.htm

The promise: “We’ve got an agenda which is about the economy, it’s about building opportunities, it’s about stopping 80,000 people leaving a year to other parts of the world”. (Source: TV3 Sunrise, 27 August 2008).

The reality: 100,000 New Zealanders have left for Australia under John Key.

4. Working for Families
The promise: “I personally guarantee that we will give families financial certainty by continuing all Working for Families payments at current levels”. (Source: John Key’s Commitment Card 2008)

The reality: Budget 2011 cut over $400 million from Working for Families by reducing payments through changing abatement rates and thresholds.

5. Asset Sales
The promise: “I'm not interested in selling assets – I'm all about building assets”. (John Key Speech, My Key Commitments to You, 12 October 2008) http://www.johnkey.co.nz/archives/504-SPEECH-My-Key-Commitments-to-You.html

The promise: “I personally guarantee that we will maintain and build New Zealand’s asset base by … not selling Kiwibank or any other state-owned company”. (Source: John Key’s Commitment Card 2008)

The reality: National is already spending the money from the asset sales and Treasury has already hired Australian investment banking firm Lazard Pty as an adviser on the asset sales.
http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/government-pursue-mixed-ownership-model http://business.scoop.co.nz/2011/11/01/nz-treasury-hires-australias-lazard-for-asset-sale-advice/

6. Underclass
The promise: “I have no intention of being a Prime Minister who tackles only the easy and convenient issues .. But I can tell you that dealing with the problems of our growing underclass is a priority for National, both in opposition and in government”. (Source: John Key Speech, The Kiwi Way: A Fair Go For All, 30 January 2007) http://www.national.org.nz/Article.aspx?ArticleID=9215

The reality: The underclass has grown with 32,000 more children living in benefit dependent households over the past 3 years.


7. KiwiSaver
The promise: “Under National, KiwiSaver members will keep their current KiwiSaver entitlements”. (Source: 2008 KiwiSaver – Economic plan: Enduring, affordable KiwiSaver, Bill English).
http://www.national.org.nz/Article.aspx?ArticleId=28684 and http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10724513

The reality: National passed legislation that halved the member tax credit in year starting 1 July 2011.

8. Cycleway
The promise: The cycleway would create 4,000 jobs. (Source: Radio New Zealand, 24 March 2009) http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/12890/labour-questions-govt-costings-of-cycleway

The reality: Only a fraction of that were created – 511 (Source: Question for Written Answer 6075 (2011), John Key, 3 August 2011). http://ourhouse.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Business/QWA/d/9/0/QWA_06075_2011-6075-2011-Jacinda-Ardern-to-the-Minister-of-Tourism.htm

9. ECE
The promise: “We will retain all the existing subsidies and fee controls”. (Source: National Party Media Statement, ECE Policy: Your family – your choice, 11 July 2008, Anne Tolley and Paula Bennett) http://paulabennett.co.nz/index.php?/archives/33-Press-Release-ECE-policy-Your-family-your-choice.html

The reality: Budget 2010 cut ECE subsidies by removing subsidy funding rates for ECE services with 80-99% and 100% registered teachers.

10. Tax Cuts
The promise: “The Government would not embark on a policy of increasing GST unless it would benefit the New Zealand economy in the long term and unless it saw the vast bulk of New Zealanders better off”. (Source: John Key, Stuff, Key confirms GST increase being considered, 9 February 2010) http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3307911/Key-confirms-GST-increase-being-considered

The promise: “The bulk of New Zealanders should be either be no worse off or better off”. (Source: John Key, TV1, Breakfast, 26 January 2010)

The reality: NZIER released a report that found 60% of households are worse off after National’s tax switch. (Source: Stuff, Higher GST, prices eat tax-cut gains for most, 1 December 2010) http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/4407809/Higher-GST-prices-eat-tax-cut-gains-for-most

The promise: “This Government introduced a balanced package of tax cuts that were fiscally neutral”. (Source: John Key, Hansard, Question Time, 11 May 2011) http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Business/QOA/a/5/4/49HansQ_20110511_00000002-2-Financial-Position-and-Savings-Prime-Minister.htm

The reality: Budget said the package would cost $465 million in the first year and over $1 billion over four years. In fact, it has cost $1.1 billion in just the first nine months. National is borrowing for tax cuts. (Source: Treasury, Financial Statement of the Government of New Zealand for the year ended 30 June 2011).

[Swoop]

Labour had 2 years to fix 9 years of...

No. labour lied through their teeth to get into power, which is their standard approach.
The gullible believed those lies.

[Katman]

No. labour lied through their teeth to get into power, which is their standard approach.


It's the standard approach for the vast majority of politicians - regardless of their party.

[Swoop]

It's the standard approach for the vast majority of politicians - regardless of their party.

From the evidence & track record over the decades, the red menace lies are much bigger and more regular.
It still attracts the deluded and gullible though.

[Katman]

From the evidence & track record over the decades, the red menace lies are much bigger and more regular.


Only if you view it through blue tinted glasses.

[TheDemonLord]

Only if you view it through blue tinted glasses.

200 million Dead (and counting).

And the best bit is, the usualy rebuttal 'but muh Holocaust' - you can't use cause you don't believe it happened!

[jasonu]

From the evidence & track record over the decades, the red menace lies are much bigger and more regular.
It still attracts the deluded and gullible though.

Naa they are all a bunch of fucking liars.
The trick is to choose the side that you think is the best of a bad bunch.

[husaberg]

From the evidence & track record over the decades, the red menace lies are much bigger and more regular.
It still attracts the deluded and gullible though.

Cool i will await you posting the evidence then.
Seeing as you said evidence you will have little trouble producing it.

[Swoop]

Only if you view it through blue tinted glasses.
An odd comment, since I've never voted for National.



Cool i will await you posting the evidence then.
Seeing as you said evidence you will have little trouble producing it.
Slightly pointless since your red-ness makes it irrelevant.
You have noticed the very latest lie though, regarding the utter failure of "kiwibuild"? Complete bullshit from the beginning, as anyone knowing the lack of tradies in NZ, coupled with the ineptitude of councils made this "promise" a blatant lie from the beginning.
The gullible believed it though.

[jasonu]

The gullible believed it though.

The very same cunts that still believe Hillary Clinton was a great candidate for POTUS.

[oldrider]

Electing governments that serve the crown - who or what actually is the Crown?

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[Swoop]

Rather overdue, but things have been mysteriously quiet recently from this "coalition".
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12201695
The loonies are about to fuck up big time with a CGT white elephant, which will trigger other issues.

Then we have social engineering 101 with the announcement that you cannot smoke in your own vehicle.

[jasonu]

Rather overdue, but things have been mysteriously quiet recently from this "coalition".
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12201695
The loonies are about to fuck up big time with a CGT white elephant, which will trigger other issues.

Then we have social engineering 101 with the announcement that you cannot smoke in your own vehicle.

Yep the tooth fairy has been and still is a spectacular fuck up.
I am amazed that there are still those that defend that stupid bint and her hapless followers.

[Ocean1]

The loonies are about to fuck up big time with a CGT white elephant, which will trigger other issues.

The astonishing thing is they seem completely oblivious to the fact that only their most sycophantic adherents think it's a good idea. How many times have they proposed a CGT and seen their polling plummet?

If they're genuinely so ideologically blinded with lust for Cullen's revenge on Rich Pricks that they attempt to actually implement anything close to a CGT then all the "consultation" and "transparency" in the world won't save them.

[Swoop]

It also appears that statistics NZ have proven that the "immigration crisis" played on by liarbour prior to the election, was not as genuine as it was made out to be.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=12201679

[oldrider]

:wait: Once the dominoes start falling - how far will the chaos reach? :scratch:

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[Swoop]

Well, the tension between Liarbour and NZ First must be at "extreme" with their fucked-up plans for another tax to be introduced.

[Berries]

I can't understand why they want to limit the new tax to Wellington.

[Voltaire]

I can't understand why they want to limit the new tax to Wellington.

Auckland and Russell are breathing a sigh of relief....

Won't happen anyway.

[sidecar bob]

Simon Bridges showing the size of the one that got away during a recent fishing trip.
The story is pretty cool too!
https://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/200688-simon-bridges-says-new-taxes-are-insulting.html

[jasonu]

Simon Bridges showing the size of the one that got away during a recent fishing trip.
The story is pretty cool too!
https://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/200688-simon-bridges-says-new-taxes-are-insulting.html

Simon bridges is a tool and national will loose the next election unless they get rid of him PDQ.

[sidecar bob]

Oh dear.
https://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/206818-transport-disarray-as-nzta-chair-resigns.html
But National but National.

[Scubbo]

NZTA the most fucken useless unaccountable unskilled nepotistic filled pile of shit holding NZ back --- procurement division and all heads of departments need to be axed and/or the whole thing scuttled.

[Ocean1]

NZTA the most fucken useless unaccountable unskilled nepotistic filled pile of shit holding NZ back --- procurement division and all heads of departments need to be axed and/or the whole thing scuttled.

Which is pretty much what the watermelon flavoured branch of the winston first govt has in mind anyway, of course.

Roads bad, treadlies good, see? And fuck your two hour daily commute.

[sidecar bob]

Which is pretty much what the watermelon flavoured branch of the winston first govt has in mind anyway, of course.

Roads bad, treadlies good, see? And fuck your two hour daily commute.

I can't understand why scooters & small motorcycles aren't getting a few breaks, like $40 a year rego & other govt perks to make them an attractive option.
They would reduce congestion, lower fuel use, cause less damage to infrastructure, free up a heap of car parks to name a few.

[Grumph]

I can't understand why scooters & small motorcycles aren't getting a few breaks, like $40 a year rego & other govt perks to make them an attractive option.
They would reduce congestion, lower fuel use, cause less damage to infrastructure, free up a heap of car parks to name a few.

Try talking to your MP. Someone posted a Wgtn Council rationale for reducing bike parks - They're inherently unsafe and we won't encourage them....
Sadly until we get a few more riders into Parliament, that looks like the line from all parties.

My local ZX10 owning labour candidate is working quietly behind the scenes though. But he's pushing shit uphill.
Where are the mass protests ?

[Ocean1]

I can't understand why scooters & small motorcycles aren't getting a few breaks, like $40 a year rego & other govt perks to make them an attractive option.
They would reduce congestion, lower fuel use, cause less damage to infrastructure, free up a heap of car parks to name a few.

'Cause they're not tredlies or trains. It really is that simple, ideological imperatives at that level completely trump any logical cost/benefit analysis you can offer, they're simply not capable of hearing it.

[sidecar bob]

'Cause they're not tredlies or trains. It really is that simple, ideological imperatives at that level completely trump any logical cost/benefit analysis you can offer, they're simply not capable of hearing it.

Well if they charged $40 per year rego, it's $40 they would get off me that they aren't getting at the moment.

[Ocean1]

Try talking to your MP. Someone posted a Wgtn Council rationale for reducing bike parks - They're inherently unsafe and we won't encourage them....
Sadly until we get a few more riders into Parliament, that looks like the line from all parties.

Yep, always seems like the productive sector is too busy to get involved in local politics, which usually leaves decisions like that up to useless pricks that couldn't survive out in the real world where such decisions would result in them going hungry. Predictable results are predictable.



Where are the mass protests ?

21st November next year I believe.

[Ocean1]

Well if they charged $40 per year rego, it's $40 they would get off me that they aren't getting at the moment.


Ideological imperatives at that level completely trump any logical cost/benefit analysis you can offer, they're simply not capable of hearing it.

Or haven't you noticed that the winston first govt is finding it difficult to produce the results they promised? Even without the extra billion on foreign policy initiatives and the extra billion for provincial vote buying there simply isn't enough public cash available to cure problems caused by individuals. Never will be.

[Voltaire]

I can't understand why scooters & small motorcycles aren't getting a few breaks, like $40 a year rego & other govt perks to make them an attractive option.
They would reduce congestion, lower fuel use, cause less damage to infrastructure, free up a heap of car parks to name a few.

If the feedback on ACC Lime Scooter use is anything to go by I'm not sure the general public are that good on two wheels.
I ride my Vespa into town about 2 times a week, takes 30 mins ( thanks to bus lanes) Vs an hour catching the train, which so far compared to my 5 years in London is virtually empty.
Bike parking in the city is fully used and mostly gone by 7:30 AM.
Remove more car spaces.

[buggerit]

I can't understand why scooters & small motorcycles aren't getting a few breaks, like $40 a year rego & other govt perks to make them an attractive option.
They would reduce congestion, lower fuel use, cause less damage to infrastructure, free up a heap of car parks to name a few.

I saw a stat where they said that if they had 10 percent of Aucklands commuters were on motorbikes it would reduce congestion
by 40 percent.Unfortunately common sense is as scarce as successful business persons(that stay) on most councils .

[sidecar bob]

If the feedback on ACC Lime Scooter use is anything to go by I'm not sure the general public are that good on two wheels.

I had a go on Lime scooter a few months ago on the Auckland waterfront.
I wouldn't have liked to have any less skill on two wheels, they're an accident waiting to happen & a damn site more scary than the ZX10r NZSBK bike I rode at Taupo last weekend.

[Scubbo]

definitely agree on cheaper scooter rego / 125-250 rego so that motorway travel is possible -- would solve a lot of congestion not only on roads but in parking, I can see a lot more trips to A&E but the man-hour savings / cost benefits on wear would well outweigh any increase -- also keep a lot more stealerships in good stead with servicing --- and the environment/social impact is far less vs amount of materials required to make a car with the slave labour mining used for raw materials such as rare-earths which are the dodgiest & dirtiest industry in the world that is NEEDED for anything EV

:angry2:

[sidecar bob]

definitely agree on cheaper scooter rego / 125-250 rego so that motorway travel is possible -- would solve a lot of congestion not only on roads but in parking, I can see a lot more trips to A&E but the man-hour savings / cost benefits on wear would well outweigh any increase -- also keep a lot more stealerships in good stead with servicing --- and the environment/social impact is far less vs amount of materials required to make a car with the slave labour mining used for raw materials such as rare-earths which are the dodgiest & dirtiest industry in the world that is NEEDED for anything EV

:angry2:

You only have to look at India, Veitnam, Malaysia, etc, if everybody on small motorcycles in those countries drove a car the countries would cease to move.

[Berries]

You only have to look at India, Veitnam, Malaysia, etc, if everybody on small motorcycles in those countries drove a car the countries would cease to move.
Yeah, but not sure that the safety performance of those three countries really supports everybody here jumping on a Vespa.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/maps-and-graphics/most-dangerous-countries-to-drive/

[Scubbo]

Yet they get a lot more shit done than nz ever will... safety is a really poor argument holding back innovation and self responsibility in this country.

[Ocean1]

Yeah, but not sure that the safety performance of those three countries really supports everybody here jumping on a Vespa.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/maps-and-graphics/most-dangerous-countries-to-drive/

The fact that spending hours parked up in a queue averaging 20kph is inherently safer than doing something closer to the posted speed limit isn't a good enough reason to deliberately paralyse your transport system.

Safety nazis always quote the benefits of any changes to a system in terms of injuries and fatalities, and completely ignore the costs of those changes in terms of comparative lifetimes spent crawling in traffic, for example.

Similar to the blindness of the greens in arbitrarily cutting funding to anything road transport related every chance they get on one hand while completely ignoring the huge increase in pollution caused by traffic not actually moving at effective speeds on the other. Both ideologies are deeply flawed.

[Voltaire]

You only have to look at India, Veitnam, Malaysia, etc, if everybody on small motorcycles in those countries drove a car the countries would cease to move.

They all aspire to owing a car, unfortunately the planet cannot take much more of Western Lifestyle.
I found riding in India and Vietnam 'interesting'. Outside the Police Stations they put up crash photos in all the gory detail.
I would not drive/ride at night.
Some of that here might promote an improved driving style.

[Swoop]

I can't understand why scooters & small motorcycles aren't getting a few breaks, like $40 a year rego & other govt perks to make them an attractive option.
They would reduce congestion, lower fuel use, cause less damage to infrastructure, free up a heap of car parks to name a few.

Carparks will become even rarer now that Phuckwit Goff is planning to sell council carparks to fund the fiscal incompetence demonstrated with the rail project.

[sidecar bob]

They all aspire to owing a car, unfortunately the planet cannot take much more of Western Lifestyle.
I found riding in India and Vietnam 'interesting'. Outside the Police Stations they put up crash photos in all the gory detail.
I would not drive/ride at night.
Some of that here might promote an improved driving style.
You cant change the world, but you can change yourself.
I'm saving the planet one T Max commute at a time.

[Swoop]

Pike river mine re-entry.

Presumably this has been postponed to get some tailor-made overalls ready for winston "I'll be the first to enter" peters?

[husaberg]

Pike river mine re-entry.

Presumably this has been postponed to get some tailor-made overalls ready for winston "I'll be the first to enter" peters?

Its scheduled for this week., with is quite a bit faster than the previous governments refusal to enter ever.
As soon as the oxygen source can be confirmed it will go ahead as planned.
Maybe if you knew some of the 29 that died or see their children and partners almost daily you might think before you make jokes about entering a crime scene where so many people died?

[jasonu]

Its scheduled for this week., with is quite a bit faster than the previous governments refusal to enter ever.
As soon as the oxygen source can be confirmed it will go ahead as planned.
Maybe if you knew some of the 29 that died or see their children and partners almost daily you might think before you make jokes about entering a crime scene where so many people died?

Risking live people to find and recover dead people doesn't sound all that smart.

[husaberg]

Risking live people to find and recover dead people doesn't sound all that smart.

No ones lives are being risked to recover dead bodies.
Do you even know what area they are exploring? they are not entering the part of the mine where they would even expect to find any bodies
The last lot were very keen on sealing it up for ever and making sure no one was prosecuted.

I guess justice is for sale in the US.
The peasents out in the sticks like to view it a little differently .
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/344548/pike-river-prosecution-withdrawal-unlawful-supreme-court
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10738223
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/110718379/police-admit-chain-of-evidence-for-pike-river-mine-diabolical?rm=m
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5961836/Pike-River-hearing-Laughing-as-mines-inspector-grilled
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/former-chief-mines-inspector-says-missing-piece-evidence-could-point-cause-pike-river-mine-disaster

[TheDemonLord]

Risking live people to find and recover dead people doesn't sound all that smart.

Tell that to various branches of the US Military - that all take the creed of Leave no one Behind as gospel.

[jasonu]

No ones lives are being risked to recover dead bodies.
Do you even know what area they are exploring? they are not entering the part of the mine where they would even expect to find any bodies

So that makes it a big waste of time and money.


The last lot were very keen on sealing it up for ever and making sure no one was prosecuted.

]

But but but National...

[husaberg]

But but but National...

I will take that as you dont know shit about it but wanted to try anyway.
I have been to Pike i knew some of the people who died i knew a lot others that worked there i know the families of the victims, i see some nearly everyday, I worked for the company that refused to seal the mine.
what do you actually know about what happened or why it did?

[Ocean1]

Tell that to various branches of the US Military - that all take the creed of Leave no one Behind as gospel.

I've often wondered how HASWA legislation worked in an organisation who's primary product is the absolute antithesis of the intent behind it. With a great deal of confusion I assume.

I see the usual backpedaling in the face of having to deliver on yet another election promise has ramped up too: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/05/andrew-little-open-to-cancelling-pike-river-re-entry-if-progress-cannot-be-made-safely.html?fbclid=IwAR2vHg87gvstfFBzho7O4WUcsOEm4 Q3wCLv137Bt5kwbjRv0NK6jXGQigD4

[husaberg]

https://thestandard.org.nz/pike-river-new-video-footage-proves-key-made-the-promise-he-denies/

[jasonu]

I will take that as you dont know shit about it but wanted to try anyway.
I have been to Pike i knew some of the people who died i knew a lot others that worked there i know the families of the victims, i see some nearly everyday, I worked for the company that refused to seal the mine.
what do you actually know about what happened or why it did?

I know spending how many millions trying to re enter the mine for no real gain is a great big waste of time and money.

[Ocean1]

https://thestandard.org.nz/pike-river-new-video-footage-proves-key-made-the-promise-he-denies/


all of us share a commitment to the values and principles that underpin the broad labour movement

That's a fine wee echo chamber you got there.

[Ocean1]

I know spending how many millions trying to re enter the mine for no real gain is a great big waste of time and money.

$36M so far apparently. Probably better spent on a new flag.

[husaberg]

That's a fine wee echo chamber you got there.

So do you deny thats what he said or do you admit it was?

[husaberg]

I know spending how many millions trying to re enter the mine for no real gain is a great big waste of time and money.

You know absolutely nothing about what happened at pike river or why or about the what the authorities did that led to the dealths of 29 people. So absolutely anything you do say will be treated with the with the expected level of derision.

[TheDemonLord]

I know spending how many millions trying to re enter the mine for no real gain is a great big waste of time and money.

There's a principal that it is right to take moderated risk to recover the remains of those who died, so that those who have had to bear the burden of loosing a loved one can get Closure.

Just in the same way the Army Rangers or PJs or Marines or (insert unit here) will always try their utmost to retrieve the body of a fallen Comrade.

[jasonu]

You know absolutely nothing about what happened at pike river or why or about the what the authorities did that led to the dealths of 29 people. So absolutely anything you do say will be treated with the with the expected level of derision.

How the fuck would you know that?
As it happens I am related by marriage to one of the families involved so I know a shit load more than you assume.

[husaberg]

How the fuck would you know that?
As it happens I am related by marriage to one of the families involved so I know a shit load more than you assume.

You know shit all about it. Otherwise you wouldn't be running off your mouth about it along with the other dicks here who claim in a revolving fashion its not happened fast enough or its costing too much, Trying to score petty political points off it.
When it was the Promise of the Previous National party Demi god. That everything possible would be done no mater the cost of how long it took. Or though he later claimed to have never said it sae it was on video aye John Key.

The first thing is I’m here to give you absolute reassurance, we’re committed to getting the boys out, and nothing’s going to change that. So – when people try and tell you we’re not, they’re playing, I hate to say it, but they’re playing with your emotions.
Pm me you contact details i will ask one of the widows to explain to you what its like that years on after countless promises nothing has been done to prosecute the people that caused the death of 29 people.
You can also PM me the detail of who you claim you are related to and i will send them a copy of the Shit you are talking.

[jasonu]

You know shit all about it. Otherwise you wouldn't be running off your mouth about it along with the other dicks here who claim in a revolving fashion its not happened fast enough or its costing too much, Trying to score petty political points off it.
When it was the Promise of the Previous National party Demi god. That everything possible would be done no mater the cost of how long it took. Or though he later claimed to have never said it sae it was on video aye John Key.

Pm me you contact details i will ask one of the widows to explain to you what its like that years on after countless promises nothing has been done to prosecute the people that caused the death of 29 people.
You can also PM me the detail of who you claim you are related to and i will send them a copy of the Shit you are talking.

Another But National...

As for your requests I would except I don't give a toss what you say or think. I doubt many people do.
My family members say they would be happier if it was all put to bed (their words). The constant reminders don't help.

[husaberg]

Another But National...

As for your requests I would except I don't give a toss what you say or think. I doubt many people do.
My family members say they would be happier if it was all put to bed (their words). The constant reminders don't help.

The constant reminders are from the right, the left is just getting on with the job same as Dingy is. A job that the right claimed was impossible no less.
Who brought up Pike here Jason? The right...... Who keeps bring it up........ the right......
Like i said PM me the details i will see if your rhetoric stack up.

[Ocean1]

So do you deny thats what he said or do you admit it was?

I don't give a fuck, I'm just doing my annual check on the quality of your references.

It's still exclusively labour party self serving drivel.

See if you can do better next year, eh?

[husaberg]

I don't give a fuck, I'm just doing my annual check on the quality of your references.

It's still exclusively labour party self serving drivel.

See if you can do better next year, eh?

Thanks for sharing, So hows that National party leader going this week
Is he poling in double figures yet, or is he still at 4% the same as Your next party leader judith "i do personal business on the taxpayers dime" Collins.

[Swoop]

As soon as the oxygen source can be confirmed it will go ahead as planned.
Maybe if you knew some of the 29 that died or see their children and partners almost daily you might think before you make jokes about entering a crime scene where so many people died?
Strange to find an environment in the mine which makes it "too dangerous" to enter. It seems we have heard that reasoning over the years.
The best option was to hand over all responsibility to the mines rescue people immediately after the explosion, and let them make all of the decisions. Sadly we now have some wankmuppet deciding the police are in charge ("crime scene"??? ffs) and everyone else is subservient to them.
Let people who know about the situation get on with it. Lead agency: Mines. Support agency: police, etc.


I see the usual backpedaling in the face of having to deliver on yet another election promise has ramped up too: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/05/andrew-little-open-to-cancelling-pike-river-re-entry-if-progress-cannot-be-made-safely.html?fbclid=IwAR2vHg87gvstfFBzho7O4WUcsOEm4 Q3wCLv137Bt5kwbjRv0NK6jXGQigD4
Haven't seen any of their promises met so far. Housing, "child poverty", etc, etc.
Still, the gullible are easily lied to and deluded in exchange for their vote.

[Ocean1]

Thanks for sharing hows that National party leader going this week
is he poling in double figures yet or is he still at 4% the same as Your next party leader judith "i do personal business on the taxpayers dime"Collins.

Oh let's not share, eh? Not sure I'm up to date on my shots.

Although, if you were genuinely interested I'm sure you'd have been simply bursting to presented this: https://nzagainstthecurrent.blogspot.com/2014/12/how-andrew-little-failed-pike-river.html?m=1

But maybe you're too consumed with actual current affairs: https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/388352/phil-twyford-s-credibility-questioned-over-changing-answers-on-kiwibuild

If not then you've obviously got a lot of "research" to do in refuting these baseless allegations, so perhaps you could spend the evening doing that? We'll all be checking back regularly for that wall of annotated and highlighted text in barely constrained excitement for that, I can tell you.

[husaberg]

Oh let's not share, eh? Not sure I'm up to date on my shots.

Although, if you were genuinely interested I'm sure you'd have been simply bursting to presented this: https://nzagainstthecurrent.blogspot.com/2014/12/how-andrew-little-failed-pike-river.html?m=1

But maybe you're too consumed with actual current affairs: https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/388352/phil-twyford-s-credibility-questioned-over-changing-answers-on-kiwibuild

If not then you've obviously got a lot of "research" to do in refuting these baseless allegations, so perhaps you could spend the evening doing that? We'll all be checking back regularly for that wall of annotated and highlighted text in barely constrained excitement for that, I can tell you.

Basesless you're so funny

Collins admits she was wrong not to disclose last week the dinner she had with her close friend Stone Shi, the chairman of Oravida, and a senior Chinese government official while in China last year.
I could have told the media about all of the meetings I had with Oravida partners. I didn't give the entire picture. I just answered direct questions, questions that I was given," she told The Diary. "I didn't think it was anyone's concern as it was a private dinner. But once it was pointed out to me the risk of the perception of a conflict of interest, I realised I was wrong."

John Key said Collins had misled media by omitting details about her trip. He said it was "unacceptable" and expressed his disappointment in her.

Oravida is a milk exporter and was affected by new Chinese import rules in the wake of the Fonterra botulism scare last year. Opposition parties alleged the dinner, and a subsequent meeting at the company's Shanghai offices, was an attempt to help benefit her husband's company, and therefore a conflict of interest.

2011 - Oravida donates $56,600 to National Party.

October 2013 – Judith Collins opens Oravida's new Auckland headquarters.

October 20, 2013 – Collins has dinner with Oravida bosses Stone Shi and Julia Xu, along with a senior Chinese border official in Beijing, China, while on a tax-funded trip. She claims it was a "personal dinner" and that no business was discussed.

October 23, 2014 - Collins visits Oravida's Shanghai offices "on the way to the airport".

December 23, 2013 – Oravida makes a $30,000 donation to the National Party.

March 4, 2014 – Collins denies dinner was a conflict of interest.

March 12, 2014 – Collins admits she had dinner with Oravida bosses, but calls suggestions she should resign "ridiculous". She is put on her last warning by Prime Minister John Key.

March 18, 2014 – Despite Collins' claims she visited the Oravida offices in Shanghai "for a cup of tea on the way to the airport", it is revealed the company's offices are 30km in the opposite direction.

April 15, 2014 – 3 News reveals Oravida requested help from the Government on Chinese border control issues just weeks before Collins' dinner.

April 17, 2014 – Winston Peters alleges the Chinese official present at the Beijing dinner represented the agency that decides whether imported food products are safe.

May 2, 2014 – There are calls for Collins to resign, following the resignation of MP Maurice Williamson for interfering in a police case involving wealthy Chinese businessman Dongua Liu.

May 4, 2014 – Accusing the media of forcing MP Maurice Williamson to resign his ministerial portfolios, Collins takes a swing at TVNZ journalist Katie Bradford, saying the media should be open to the same scrutiny as politicians.

May 5, 2014 – Collins apologises for attack on Bradford, denies her comment that she could have "recall on all sorts of things" about journalists is a threat.

Collins confirmed she was forced to give an explanation to Key this morning about the lapse but refused to confirm if she had apologised to him.
The dinner with Oravida chairman Stone Shi and managing director Julia Xu took place in Beijing when Collins was there on official government business.
Collins said this morning she had not thought to mention the dinner when questions were asked about her visit to Oravida last week because it had been a private affair.

There are questions over Collins' links to Oravida after a post on their website suggested she had endorsed its products while on her trip to China.

The cabinet manual makes it clear ministers should not endorse any products.

As for blaming the unions for Pike thats an epic fail.
Did you know that there was only a handful of union members on staff and the Union was refused access to the staff at Pike.

[Berries]

I'd tap it.

[husaberg]

I'd tap it.
Well she did learn morse code when she carried riders for the pony express.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/assets/news_crops/79081/eight_col_190430-national-caucus_04.jpg

[Ocean1]

As for blaming the unions for Pike thats an epic fail.
Did you know that there was only a handful of union members on staff and the Union was refused access to the staff at Pike.

So the article is wrong?


The EPMU represented approximately half of the 140 miners on the site.

Also, does "refused access" mean that someone unqualified to be on a dangerous work site was declined entry to that site?

Or are you just focusing on pointing your finger at dem evel killer Tories to the exclusion of anyone else involved as usual?

[husaberg]

So the article is wrong?



Also, does "refused access" mean that someone unqualified to be on a dangerous work site was declined entry to that site?

Or are you just focusing on pointing your finger at dem evel killer Tories to the exclusion of anyone else involved as usual?

It wasnt an article it was a blog do you know that?

No refused access means just that the union wished to meet with the staff and they were denied access.
If you had the first clue about pike river mine you would shut your gob spouting the crap you are now.


Tell me again about those allegations against Collins you insisted were baseless

[Ocean1]

It wasnt an article it was a blog do you know that?

Aye, a notoriously left leaning publication, pointing out that Andrew Little failed those miners. So why does your repeated and tiresome posts re Pike river never find any of the common as fuck references to that, and only ever blame National?


So the article is wrong?

Got an answer, there sport? Or isn't it convenient?


No refused access means just that the union wished to meet with the staff and they were denied access.


Also, does "refused access" mean that someone unqualified to be on a dangerous work site was declined entry to that site?

So, yet again, isn't it common as fuck for untrained visitors to not be allowed onto dangerous sites? Actually illegal, in fact?


If you had the first clue about pike river mine you would shut your gob spouting the crap you are now.

I need to know absolutely zero about Pike River mine to understand that you are the very last source that anyone would look to for information on the topic, or any other political issue, you constantly leak labour fanboi bullshit from every orifice.


Tell me again about those allegations against Collins you insisted were baseless

When you can muster the merest soupçon of comprehension regarding that comment let me know and I might address it. In the meantime I suggest you refrain from embarrassing yourself further and fuck off.

[husaberg]

Aye, a notoriously left leaning publication, pointing out that Andrew Little failed those miners. So why does your repeated and tiresome posts re Pike river never find any of the common as fuck references to that, and only ever blame National?



Got an answer, there sport? Or isn't it convenient?





So, yet again, isn't it common as fuck for untrained visitors to not be allowed onto dangerous sites? Actually illegal, in fact?



I need to know absolutely zero about Pike River mine to understand that you are the very last source that anyone would look to for information on the topic, or any other political issue, you constantly leak labour fanboi bullshit from every orifice.



When you can muster the merest soupçon of comprehension regarding that comment let me know and I might address it. In the meantime I suggest you refrain from embarrassing yourself further and fuck off.

I pointed out why the blog was full of shit, you never countered it? it was a blog that you keep calling an article.
You only ever post the most obscure crap and say look i am right but ignore the general educated consensus.
The blog is even a repost of his own post. well he quoted himself as a source you dont get much beter than that.......
Not only that what is alleged in the headline is not backed up in the material posted. Singular Comments are taken out of context and also do not support his allegations.

Maybe you might want to point out how a union should have protected those workers and prevented the deaths of all those 29 people.
When in your opinion Unions do nothing and are the scum of the earth.

As for the denied access to the mine site as it was too dangerous odd the same unions had free access to Roa, Terrace, Stockton, Huntley, Spring creek.
Odd that every man and his dog had been to the pike office, Had you ever gone to the pike site office i had when the mine was operational?
if going into pike was illegal how is it they held a field day and took reporters and investors and the Greymouth mayor underground, Yet you claim it was too dangerous for the miners to meet with the Union at the bath house. That pathetic even for you.
Like i said you know nothing about Pike. you should shut your gob about it, as you are speaking on a subject you clearly know nothing about.
Pike was the least union represented Mine in the country and the management wanted it that way. If you knew anything about Pike you would know that. you clearly didnt.

[Ocean1]

I pointed out why the blog was full of shit, you never countered it? it was a blog that you keep calling an article.
You only ever post the most obscure crap and say look i am right but ignore the general educated consensus.
The blog is even a repost of his own post. well he quoted himself as a source you dont get much beter than that.......
Not only that what is alleged in the headline is not backed up in the material posted. Singular Comments are taken out of context and also do not support his allegations.

Maybe you might want to point out how a union should have protected those workers and prevented the deaths of all those 29 people.
When in your opinion Unions do nothing and are the scum of the earth.

As for the denied access to the mine site as it was too dangerous odd the same unions had free access to Roa, Terrace, Stockton, Huntley, Spring creek.
Odd that every man and his dog had been to the pike office, Had you ever gone to the pike site office i had when the mine was operational?
if going into pike was illegal how is it they held a field day and took reporters and investors and the Greymouth mayor underground, Yet you claim it was too dangerous for the miners to meet with the Union at the bath house. That oatetic even for you.
Like i said you know nothing about Pike. you should shut your gob as you are speaking on a subject you clearly know nothing about.
Pike was the least union represented Mine in the country and the management wanted it that way. If you knew anything about Pike you would know that.

So you got fuck all then? Just more labour fanboi drivel, eh?

[husaberg]

So you got fuck all then? Just more labour fanboi drivel, eh?

So you can counter the points so you just ignore them., Gee you clearly must be right then.:killingme
I Note I never mentioned labour once in any of the posts.

Here's some more for you to grasp, Knnock yourself out.
http://www.museum.state.il.us/muslink/nat_amer/post/images/C4i_ii1a-250.JPG

[Katman]

Oh look, it's the Battle of the Repugnants.

:corn:

[Ocean1]

So you can counter the points so you just ignore them., Gee you clearly must be right then.:killingme
I Note I never mentioned labour once in any of the posts.

Here's some more for you to grasp, Knnock yourself out.
http://www.museum.state.il.us/muslink/nat_amer/post/images/C4i_ii1a-250.JPG

I'm not the one ignoring direct questions, dude.

That'd be you. And we both know that you won't, because the answers don't line up with your insane drivel.

[husaberg]

I'm not the one ignoring direct questions, dude.

That'd be you. And we both know that you won't, because the answers don't line up with your insane drivel.

You know buggar all, you talk a crap load of shit about subjects you clearly know nothing about regardless, when this is pointed out, you have no effective reply, you just then project your rather obvious inadequacies onto others to cover for your butt hurt feelings. You are a waste of oxygen. A "katman" The only difference between you and Katman is instead of seeing conspiracies caused by shapeshifting lizards and their Jewish backers, whereas you see all sorts of Socialist conspiracies.

[Ocean1]

I see the numbers are in: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/112574757/new-zealands-growing-tax-bill-wheres-it-going

And it's fucking ugly.

It's not looking too great for next year either: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/112177615/top-income-tax-band-may-swell-after-cgt-disappointment-tax-expert-warns?rm=m

Still, could have been worse: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/112189510/nothing-the-tax-working-group-came-up-with-would-fly?rm=m

Let's do something else.

[jasonu]

Let's do something else.

How about blaming National...:brick::brick::brick:

[mashman]

Let's do something else.

We could always look at addressing Earth Overshoot... it is kind of important like.

[husaberg]

I see the numbers are in: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/112574757/new-zealands-growing-tax-bill-wheres-it-going

And it's fucking ugly.

It's not looking too great for next year either: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/112177615/top-income-tax-band-may-swell-after-cgt-disappointment-tax-expert-warns?rm=m

Still, could have been worse: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/112189510/nothing-the-tax-working-group-came-up-with-would-fly?rm=m

Let's do something else.
but but but Labour...........

Maybe if you were successful at business you wouldn't need to moan all the time about tax.
Lets do something else ............. they clearly are.
Maybe responsible governments need to balance their book and run surpluses to pay off overseas debt.
Odd that you cant understand that seeing you claim to be in business.

Maybe in your mind rather than balancing the books to pay for the massive amount of people that are going to be getting the pension and living longer and needing more health care.
They should instead give tax cuts to everyone and then borrow all the money needed to pay for it.
Rather than paying the international debt ,t instead racked up huge debt by borrowing more and more money every year.
Oh shit i know what they cant do that ,because its someones else's plan already.:whistle:
I guess in your business you just keep on endlessly borrowing money rather than trying to pay off debt.;)
https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/new-zealand-gdp.png?s=wgdpnewz&v=201807061649a1http://i.imgur.com/OabuhlD.png
Maybe that why you moan all the time about tax, you just don't have the capacity to understand basic business principals.

[pritch]

The best option was to hand over all responsibility to the mines rescue people immediately after the explosion, and let them make all of the decisions.

I was of the understanding that the people administering mines had been absorbed into the Labour Dept or whatever that's called now. In the early days after the explosion, while the miners were still listed as "missing", emails from Greymouth were reportedly returned to be rewritten because they contained spelling mistakes. Phone calls were met with a recorded message advising that business hours were between 8.00AM and 5.00PM.

And the arseholes in Wellington who presided over this catastrophe all kept their jobs.

[eldog]

I have just wondered who these people we borrow money from are.
Do they really expect/want us to pay it off or just get deeper in debt.

Wasn't the USA in strife a while back, they managed to get by.

It's obviously not that important or they would be foreclosing on NZ.

Might as well buy a new bike and enjoy it

[Woodman]

We could always look at addressing Earth Overshoot... it is kind of important like.

No,rescuing 29 dead people ironically from a coal mine is much more important than the fact that we are/have destroyed the environment that supports us.

[mashman]

No,rescuing 29 dead people ironically from a coal mine is much more important than the fact that we are/have destroyed the environment that supports us.

bugga... maybe next year.

[Ocean1]

but but but Labour...........

Maybe if you were successful at business you wouldn't need to moan all the time about tax.
Lets do something else ............. they clearly are.
Maybe responsible governments need to balance their book and run surpluses to pay off overseas debt.
Odd that you cant understand that seeing you claim to be in business.

Maybe in your mind rather than balancing the books to pay for the massive amount of people that are going to be getting the pension and living longer and needing more health care.
They should instead give tax cuts to everyone and then borrow all the money needed to pay for it.
Rather than paying the international debt ,t instead racked up huge debt by borrowing more and more money every year.
Oh shit i know what they cant do that ,because its someones else's plan already.:whistle:
I guess in your business you just keep on endlessly borrowing money rather than trying to pay off debt.;)
Maybe that why you moan all the time about tax, you just don't have the capacity to understand basic business principals.

If I wasn't successful I wouldn't be paying tax, idiot.

The only person for whom it's clear that this govt is doing anything financially worthwhile is you.

If you were at all honest in discussing govt debt you wouldn't be using raw dollars, the universal metric for debt is /gdp, like so: https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/economic-data/public-debt-percentage-gdp

That, of course doesn't carefully ignore the GFC, NZ's oecd leading performance in minimising debt in response, or the fact that labour, having taxed the highest income decade in NZ history immediately prior to the GFC left the piggy bank empty as. None of which you want to handle at all.

Nobody's interested in your bullshit, dude, honestly, it's so obviously the product of an extreme, rabid labour fanboi it's laughable. When you want an honest discussion about politics there's no shortage of people to help you out, there. In the meantime you can just fester alone in your tiny twisted world.

[jasonu]

If I wasn't successful I wouldn't be paying tax, idiot.

The only person for whom it's clear that this govt is doing anything financially worthwhile is you.

If you were at all honest in discussing govt debt you wouldn't be using raw dollars, the universal metric for debt is /gdp, like so: https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/economic-data/public-debt-percentage-gdp

That, of course doesn't carefully ignore the GFC, NZ's oecd leading performance in minimising debt in response, or the fact that labour, having taxed the highest income decade in NZ history immediately prior to the GFC left the piggy bank empty as. None of which you want to handle at all.

Nobody's interested in your bullshit, dude, honestly, it's so obviously the product of an extreme, rabid labour fanboi it's laughable. When you want an honest discussion about politics there's no shortage of people to help you out, there. In the meantime you can just fester alone in your tiny twisted world.


I've never heard of someone so eager and willing to pay more tax.

[TheDemonLord]

I've never heard of someone so eager and willing to pay more tax.

The funniest thing is, I don't mind paying Tax, I don't mind the amount of Tax I pay, potentially I wouldn't mind paying a little bit more.

However, there is a Caveat there - what I DO mind is how badly it's being spent:

Politician Pet Projects
Ideological ventures with no factual basis
Feel-Good spending that perpetuates rather than fix the problem
Poor Controls to Vet those in need vs those taking the piss
Programs that give the appearance of being effective, but are white elephants.
Spending that infantilizes a group making then dependent rather than independent
Things that make the Middle Class Socialists feel good about themselves.

etc. etc.

[husaberg]

If I wasn't successful I wouldn't be paying tax, idiot.

The only person for whom it's clear that this govt is doing anything financially worthwhile is you.

If you were at all honest in discussing govt debt you wouldn't be using raw dollars, the universal metric for debt is /gdp, like so: https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/economic-data/public-debt-percentage-gdp

That, of course doesn't carefully ignore the GFC, NZ's oecd leading performance in minimising debt in response, or the fact that labour, having taxed the highest income decade in NZ history immediately prior to the GFC left the piggy bank empty as. None of which you want to handle at all.

Nobody's interested in your bullshit, dude, honestly, it's so obviously the product of an extreme, rabid labour fanboi it's laughable. When you want an honest discussion about politics there's no shortage of people to help you out, there. In the meantime you can just fester alone in your tiny twisted world.


My word you make up crap.
I very much doubt you are even moderately successful as you spend hours moaning about having to pay tax. you would have enough money not to have to moan about paying tax every five minutes.
If you were that successful you would also have a more clever accountant. to minimise the tax you pay
the metric you are trying to describe is not GDP its Debt as a % of GDP and the national party Oceaned that all up as well.
341806341805341808341807


National never repaid the debt they incurred they left it for others to clean up. Same as usual ,same with healthcare. Same as usual.
Labour left a huge amount of money National just couldn't touch it. As it was locked in a pension fund.
The reason National was able to borrow money was Labour had the debt levels so low.
You suggesting that Labour left the piggy bank empty by taxing people is absurd even for you. You should produce some data to back it up.
if its true it should be no issue for you to do so will it.........

Victoria University School of Government research fellow Toby Moore said

"But even on a simplistic measure of fiscal responsibility, the accusation that Labour is less fiscally responsible does not match the recent historical record,"
"The Clark-led Government was very cautious when it came to finances, and put New Zealand in a much stronger position in terms of public debt than most other advanced countries when the GFC occurred"

Labour left the economy in a bloody good condition National lowered tax rates and then borrowed heavily to pay for it. This is a fact. No amount of your posturing will change it

Economist Brian Easton said Looking at recent governments, Clark's finance minister Sir Michael Cullen squirreled away savings, paying off debt and using the surplus for investment.
...... under the Key-English Government....National "cannibalised" a lot of the Cullen reserves to ease us though the GFC,

National never contributed properly to National Super. This is a fact.
Government contributions to the Super Fund were suspended between 2009 and 2017.
https://www.nzsuperfund.co.nz/nz-super-fund-explained-purpose-and-mandate/contributions-suspension
https://www.ceicdata.com/datapage/charts/ipc_new-zealand_household-debt--of-nominal-gdp/?type=area&from=2007-12-01&to=2018-12-01&lang=en

n 2009 super accounted for 12% of the budget; in the coming year it will be 17% in 2018. In real per capita terms super will cost the taxpayer 35.5% more in fiscal 2018 than it did when National took office,
yet for 9 years National never contributed anything to the national superfund

Not only that
341810341809
You are the one festering you have been like this since national got booted out of power. i look forward to another few years of it as well.

[oldrider]

Saw this on the nett I was attracted by the (NZ) reference:- https://www.infowars.com/new-zealand-citizens-receiving-home-visits-from-political-police/ - WTF? :scratch:

Thought I'd ask - What do other KBer's think?

[pritch]

Saw this on the nett I was attracted by the (NZ) reference:- https://www.infowars.com/new-zealand-citizens-receiving-home-visits-from-political-police/ - WTF? :scratch:

Thought I'd ask - What do other KBer's think?

Shit oh dear John! That's Infowars, possibly the very definition of a fake news site. It was Infowars who said that the Sandy Hook School child killings were a scam and that the grieving parents shown on TV were "crisis actors". All of which lead to the parents receiving death threats to the extent some had to move house. The parents are now suing Jones and hopefully he will soon be bankrupted into silence.

Jones ranted and raved at the mic with flying spittle and "news" such as that Obama and Clinton came to earth from Hell and if you were in their presence you could actually smell the sulphur.

The site sells a variety of shonky shit including "Brain Power" pills. The people who follow Watson, Jones, and all, sure as shit need those pills.

We are seeing less of their drivel of late, most of the social media companies have cut their access.

None of which is to say that events similar to those reported in this particular story didn't take place. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Well you asked...

[TheDemonLord]

So I read this morning that Commissar Cindy doesn't understand why the US can't change their laws.


Considering she is in Politics, one would hope she has a basic understanding as to what a Constitution is and why laws can't be passed that are in breach of the Constitution. It's not like the 2nd Amendment is hard to understand.

[oldrider]

Shit oh dear John! That's Infowars, possibly the very definition of a fake news site. It was Infowars who said that the Sandy Hook School child killings were a scam and that the grieving parents shown on TV were "crisis actors". All of which lead to the parents receiving death threats to the extent some had to move house. The parents are now suing Jones and hopefully he will soon be bankrupted into silence.

Jones ranted and raved at the mic with flying spittle and "news" such as that Obama and Clinton came to earth from Hell and if you were in their presence you could actually smell the sulphur.

The site sells a variety of shonky shit including "Brain Power" pills. The people who follow Watson, Jones, and all, sure as shit need those pills.

We are seeing less of their drivel of late, most of the social media companies have cut their access.

None of which is to say that events similar to those reported in this particular story didn't take place. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Well you asked...

Thanks for the response pritch - I wasn't really concerned about Jones and his program (that is a given) I was concerned about the NZ police inference.

Plain clothes police wearing (mixed) police uniform apparel? - asking random political affiliation questions of private citizens on a Sunday?

WTF is that bit all about? - true or false? - either way it is more than a bit concerning IMO. :scratch:

[pritch]

So I read this morning that Commissar Cindy doesn't understand why the US can't change their laws.

Considering she is in Politics, one would hope she has a basic understanding as to what a Constitution is and why laws can't be passed that are in breach of the Constitution. It's not like the 2nd Amendment is hard to understand.

That's one reason, although the second amendment refers to "a well regulated militia" which hardly describes the rabble that likes to display their right to open carry in public. If you were in a cafe with them you'd be betting your life on their ability to know that their rifle was safe. Good luck.

The other reason the law won't change is the millions of dollars the NRA have used to buy politicians.

Having said though, that it's entirely possible that the 2A would be news to our leader.

[TheDemonLord]

That's one reason, although the second amendment refers to "a well regulated militia" which hardly describes the rabble that likes to display their right to open carry in public. If you were in a cafe with them you'd be betting your life on their ability to know that their rifle was safe. Good luck.

The other reason the law won't change is the millions of dollars the NRA have used to buy politicians.

Having said though, that it's entirely possible that the 2A would be news to our leader.

There's much I don't agree with in regards to the 2A or the American system - Open Carry is amongst them.

The Well regulated Militia part is also interesting - apparently there's a number of supreme court judgements as to what that means, and regular citizenry is included, which to me doesn't seem correct - well regulated would imply some form of organizational structure or a club affiliation or something.

If the American Constitution is news to our 'Global Leader' - then it perhaps casts doubt onto her credentials to talk on Global issues, it definitely shows she's talking about something for which she has not the slightest Clue.

[husaberg]

Thanks for the response pritch - I wasn't really concerned about Jones and his program (that is a given) I was concerned about the NZ police inference.

Plain clothes police wearing (mixed) police uniform apparel? - asking random political affiliation questions of private citizens on a Sunday?

WTF is that bit all about? - true or false? - either way it is more than a bit concerning IMO. :scratch:

Did for even a split second consider that the person who is claiming crap, posts a lot of stuff regarding Tommy Robinson and anti islam crap in general on a Youtube channel.....
I would be concerned, if the police and others dont take an interest in him.
If i was posting that sort of crap on the net plus was know to have firearms i would expect a dawn raid sometime soon.

But seriously posting info-wars

Seeing as you have far too much free time have a watch of this Because "MERICA"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=40&v=QYyX7O02yOg

[Murray]

I have to wonder about what the crap is regarding drugged drivers, 71 drugged drivers against 109 drunk driver deaths in fatal accidents makes it a no-brainer. Why the PUBLIC CONSULTATION. Get the bastards and bastardesses off the road NOW!!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112739906/government-plans-public-consultation-on-drug-driver-testing

[Swoop]

Having said though, that it's entirely possible that the 2A would be news to our leader.

What gets overlooked is the simple, ingrained, culture of the US. Firearms were part of its foundation from the "wild west" to frontier wars, to Mexican border battles.
Making "change" happen in the US would take an entire generation to achieve.



I have to wonder on what the crap going on regarding drugged drivers is, 71 drugged drivers against 109 drunk driver deaths in fatal accidents makes it a no-brainer. Why the PUBLIC CONSULTATION. Get the bastards and bastardesses off the road NOW!!

An interesting discussion happened at work, regarding the proposed weed referendum. Good points discussed.
"If weed becomes legal, we become a tourist destination for stoners".
"Tourists visiting NZ driving stoned" on top of their normal standards of driving...
The consenus was that the great stampede to free-up weed, has now passed and far bigger discussions need to happen. NZ's approach to alcohol is bad enough, so what can be done better for future legislation?

[husaberg]

What gets overlooked is the simple, ingrained, culture of the US. Firearms were part of its foundation from the "wild west" to frontier wars, to Mexican border battles.
Making "change" happen in the US would take an entire generation to achieve.




An interesting discussion happened at work, regarding the proposed weed referendum. Good points discussed.
"If weed becomes legal, we become a tourist destination for stoners".
"Tourists visiting NZ driving stoned" on top of their normal standards of driving...
The consenus was that the great stampede to free-up weed, has now passed and far bigger discussions need to happen. NZ's approach to alcohol is bad enough, so what can be done better for future legislation?

The problem i see is the weed drug levels dont really indicate the impairment (or so the story goes) but the fact its in the system of so many is a bit of a hint it clearly does.
if you cant do a test by an easy means of a roadside test wtf would me think of letting it become legal

[mashman]

Plain clothes police wearing (mixed) police uniform apparel? - asking random political affiliation questions of private citizens on a Sunday?

WTF is that bit all about? - true or false? - either way it is more than a bit concerning IMO. :scratch:

Looking for extreme answers most likely. I reckon that's perfectly fine. Tis what is classed as extreme that should be of concern in light of perpetual legislation change in the air.

In the context of todays world, the extremists are the ones who excuse and promote the status quo of stupidity and refer to it as civilised society. Unfortunately that's not the definition of extremist that will likely be used ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa <3.

[Woodman]

So I read this morning that Commissar Cindy doesn't understand why the US can't change their laws.


Considering she is in Politics, one would hope she has a basic understanding as to what a Constitution is and why laws can't be passed that are in breach of the Constitution. It's not like the 2nd Amendment is hard to understand.
Yeah but seriously, when was that constitution made up? 300 odd years ago maybe? Times have changed.

[Viking01]

I have to wonder about what the crap is regarding drugged drivers, 71 drugged drivers against 109 drunk driver deaths in fatal accidents makes it a no-brainer. Why the PUBLIC CONSULTATION. Get the bastards and bastardesses off the road NOW!!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112739906/government-plans-public-consultation-on-drug-driver-testing

Morning.

Not all the drugs analysed for and found were illegal drugs. Some will have been
prescription drugs, given for legitimate medical conditions.

The report included in the article lists a number of the most typical drugs found
(often having a sedative effect). Not everyone reads the accompanying advisory
notes handed out by pharmacists when collecting their prescription (e.g. do not
operate heavy machinery ; do not consume in combination with alcohol). Or is
necessarily aware of the impact upon their body.

Points 70 onwards in the report lists the physical and legal challenges that Police
and MOT face in doing roadside drug testing. If it was quick and easy and cheap,
think that they would have already implemented such tests here in NZ.

Roadside drug testing is done in Australia (QLD and NT), mainly for cannabis and
meth. Particular focus has been on long distance haul drivers in the past.

[TheDemonLord]

Yeah but seriously, when was that constitution made up? 300 odd years ago maybe? Times have changed.

Have they?

The purpose of the 2A is to go the individual the ability to defend themselves and to defend against a tyrannical Government. Neither of those situations have changed in 300 years.

but I must stress, I don't entirely agree with the 2A.

[Woodman]

Have they?

The purpose of the 2A is to go the individual the ability to defend themselves and to defend against a tyrannical Government. Neither of those situations have changed in 300 years.

but I must stress, I don't entirely agree with the 2A.
So then according to their constitution it would be okay for someone to shoot trump

[TheDemonLord]

So then according to their constitution it would be okay for someone to shoot trump

That's actually a fascinating question.

The first part is whether you would consider Trump a Tyrant (I don't) but more importantly, what/how do you define a Tyrant?

I would put that when a government passed laws that were commonly held to be in breach of the constitution or started violating Human Rights - then it would potentially provide justification for an Armed Rebellion under the intent of the 2A, however the 2A does not protect the individual from sanction or provide a justification for the act, it only applies access to the tools needed to do so.

That would be a very interesting legal argument - that if an Administration did something that could be defined as Tyrannical and a group did rebel against the Government, whether they could cite the 2A and the various treatises written by the Founding Fathers for their defence.

I genuinely don't know.

I suspect the theory behind it holds that the expectation is that the populace would win the fight against the Government, and would then install themselves as the new Government, absolving themselves of their crimes.

[Katman]

I would put that when a government passed laws that were commonly held to be in breach of the constitution or started violating Human Rights

Like enforcing a mandatory vaccination requirement?

[Woodman]

Like enforcing a mandatory vaccination requirement?

Or causing global warming due to capitalistic beliefs.

[Katman]

Or causing global warming due to capitalistic beliefs.

Well strictly speaking that's probably not a Human Rights violation but hey, I like the way you're starting to think.

[Woodman]

Well strictly speaking that's probably not a Human Rights violation but hey, I like the way you're starting to think.

It is a human rights violation it's just the lack of speed that is deceptive. That and until recently wasn't newsworthy.

[husaberg]

So then according to their constitution it would be okay for someone to shoot trump

You are forgetting you are talking to a guy that claims
to know more
about US laws than a US supreme court judge
More abut US security that the FBI.
More about what laws drafted than those who draft them.

[TheDemonLord]

You are forgetting you are talking to a guy that claims
to know more
about US laws than a US supreme court judge
More abut US security that the FBI.
More about what laws drafted than those who draft them.

Bro...

Your record is stuck.

You might want to change it and get some new patter.

[Murray]

Morning.

Not all the drugs analysed for and found were illegal drugs. Some will have been
prescription drugs, given for legitimate medical conditions.

The report included in the article lists a number of the most typical drugs found
(often having a sedative effect). Not everyone reads the accompanying advisory
notes handed out by pharmacists when collecting their prescription (e.g. do not
operate heavy machinery ; do not consume in combination with alcohol). Or is
necessarily aware of the impact upon their body.


So thats alright then we dont need testing. Either learn to read or dont take drugs and drive!!!

[Viking01]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/112033446/reserve-bank-censures-anz

[Ocean1]

The timing of the statement about ANZ is intriguing, as it comes the day submissions close on the Reserve Bank's proposals.

"As part of its current capital review, the Reserve Bank is reviewing its capital framework for banks," the Reserve Bank said in its statement on ANZ.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Swoop]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz//nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12232779&ref=clavis

Spot on.

[husaberg]

Ardern has now reached 51 percent, reaching her highest ever rating as preferred Prime Minister.

She had leapt seven percentage points since her last polling in February.
The poll, conducted by One News and Colmar Brunton, shows Simon Bridges has dropped down to five percent.
which is the lowest he has ever polled during his time as National Party Leader.

To put that into perspective Nationals leader is rated 46% lower as preferred PM.
Or only 12.5% of national voters would prefer to have Simon bridges as PM
where as it seems 12.75% of National voters would prefer to have Jacinda Arden as prime minister.

This is National worst result in over a decade
It also showed Labour up three percentage points to 48 percent and National down two to 40 per cent.
The Greens were steady at six percent, while NZ First climbed up to four percent, still below the threshold.
The result would give Labour 60 seats and the Greens eight.

[Swoop]

Seems that the minions of Wellytown are also pissed off with the economic incompetence of Liarbour & have leaked the budget.

Also it is interesting to see the "housing minister" once again failing completely with the bullshit of kiwibuild targets. Incompetent, lying cunt.

[jasonu]

Seems that the minions of Wellytown are also pissed off with the economic incompetence of Liarbour & have leaked the budget.

Also it is interesting to see the "housing minister" once again failing completely with the bullshit of kiwibuild targets. Incompetent, lying cunt.

Yes, yes and yes but they will get away with it because the tooth monster went to another mosque wearing a burka.

[Voltaire]

Simon should let Judith be the Gnat spokesperson so as to save him opening his mouth.:facepalm:

[Grumph]

Simon should let Judith be the Gnat spokesperson so as to save him opening his mouth.:facepalm:

Yep, he's now staked his future on being right that the budget info didn't come from a hack....

Trotter this morning suggested he should have used a cutout to avoid the fallout if it is illegally obtained. If he was clever, yes, it would have been Collins - but I suspect she's too cunning to have fallen for that, LOL.

[pritch]

Seems that the minions of Wellytown are also pissed off with the economic incompetence of Liarbour & have leaked the budget.


That post isn't aging well.

The journalists' concept of "hacking" tends to be ill informed and it usually takes a day or two until they get someone with some expertise to comment. We may yet get an interesting story - or just more smoke and mirrors.

Jason will keep checking the Herald for us.

[jasonu]

Jason will keep checking the Herald for us.

Might have to, it hasn't made headlines on Fox news yet...

[Grumph]

Might have to, it hasn't made headlines on Fox news yet...

If it's attributed to Russia, Fox will never mention it. If China, they'll trumpet it...

But if as I suspect it's a treasury fuckup, you'll never see anything at all.

From what I hear from the wife - an avid talkback follower, LOL, - it looks like it was at least a nat sympathiser who found the loophole.

Wonder they'd have tried as hard if it was National's budget.

[Swoop]

Yep, he's now staked his future on being right that the budget info didn't come from a hack...
Well, a treasury fuck up in not disconnecting the "Search" function on their website. Even the plod say it wasn't illegal.

Genuine government incompetence in action.



As for the other "2000 hacking attempts per day", presumably it keeps a chinese person gainfully employed...

[pritch]

Well, a treasury fuck up in not disconnecting the "Search" function on their website. Even the plod say it wasn't illegal.
Genuine government incompetence in action.
As for the other "2000 hacking attempts per day", presumably it keeps a chinese person gainfully employed...

It has been reported that it was a clone website that was accessed, a trial site which would explain why some of the information was incorrect or incomplete. Apparently it's common practice to run such a site which is deleted when the site proper goes live.

There are likely some on KB actually know about such things.

[Grumph]

It has been reported that it was a clone website that was accessed, a trial site which would explain why some of the information was incorrect or incomplete. Apparently it's common practice to run such a site which is deleted when the site proper goes live.

There are likely some on KB actually know about such things.

Katflap could probably raise a conspiracy theory about clone websites being dangerous to users health...

[Woodman]

What the fuck does it matter that some info was released a few days early. It was going to be released anyway FFS. Very limp wristed national....And the media? Tryhards trying to justify there own delusions of importance.

[Scubbo]

biggest issue, fuel excise going up 4c July 1st and again in 2020 >_< to pay for some shit planned tram down dominion road and 0 focus on congestion -- and most of the tax is for AKL / WLG big projects -- thanks rest of you non-townies :violin:

[husaberg]

It has been reported that it was a clone website that was accessed, a trial site which would explain why some of the information was incorrect or incomplete. Apparently it's common practice to run such a site which is deleted when the site proper goes live.

There are likely some on KB actually know about such things.

But 2000 attempts were made to find it , You know "something your grandma could do"
He will be rolled in under 2 months

[jasonu]

Well, a treasury fuck up in not disconnecting the "Search" function on their website. Even the plod say it wasn't illegal.

Genuine government incompetence in action.



As for the other "2000 hacking attempts per day", presumably it keeps a chinese person gainfully employed...

But but but National....

[jasonu]

I got a laugh out of this.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12235798

[Ocean1]

I got a laugh out of this.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12235798

The smile gets a bit strained at the $50k per household costs inside the cover though.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1905/S00314/speech-act-leaders-reply-to-budget-2019.htm

[austingtir]

The only party imo worth a vote at the next election is New Conservative!!

Both Labour and the Nats are joke parties that sheep vote for. Its amateur hour all around atm on both sides of the Isle. NZ needs a genuine centre right political party!

The current polls are complete bullshit. Watch what happens at the next election. National will have a coalition partner or two. ACT will obviously be one. The NC could be the other if people wake up in time. Either way going forward NC is going to be a major political force in this country. NZfirst will not be in a position to elect labour again and labour/greens wont have the numbers by themselves

NZfirst voters left in mass when winston backstabbed his voters by going with the UN migration pact. The polls wont show this until the election. NZfirst will be lucky to make 3%

[Scubbo]

that was a sweeeeet first post

[austingtir]

that was a sweeeeet first post

Thats the crazy thing I used posted in here 10 years back.... And Iv now posted on this forum about 4 or 5 times in the last week. I had alot more than 1 post. I dunno maybe I changed my account a couple years back but I dont think so.

[jato]

Austin is on the money there - especially now they've cleared the deck of the drama queens from a couple of years back... The new conservatives thinking closely aligns with with the average kiwi thats averse to the modern pc fluffery

[jasonu]

Didn't those lying cunts campaign on no new taxes?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12236232

[husaberg]

The smile gets a bit strained at the $50k per household costs inside the cover though.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1905/S00314/speech-act-leaders-reply-to-budget-2019.htm

David Seymour posting his thoughts on the common Kiwi that's some funny arse shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7plURl4sx4
I never knew Katman was french

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[Swoop]

It has been reported that it was a clone website that was accessed, a trial site which would explain why some of the information was incorrect or incomplete. Apparently it's common practice to run such a site which is deleted when the site proper goes live.

It'll be the same website, just with pages that are not "live" or linked into yet.

[Ocean1]

David Seymour posting his thoughts on the common Kiwi that's some funny arse shit

Gota give him credit for staying true to the original libertarian script. Particularly the bit about fewer politicians.

That, and he doesn't c/p juvenile ad-hom bullshit when he feels threatened but can't explain why.

[Ocean1]

Cogent comment.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113152864/govt-made-right-call-in-leaving-floundering-kiwibuild-out-of-the-budget

[austingtir]

Cogent comment.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113152864/govt-made-right-call-in-leaving-floundering-kiwibuild-out-of-the-budget


What about when the Nats are back in after the next election and they knock labour/NZfirst's Train Set on the head again like they did last time?

Basically what labour is doing with this budget (other than mental health which I support) is all a complete and utter waste of our money!!

[Swoop]

Cogent comment.https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113152864/govt-made-right-call-in-leaving-floundering-kiwibuild-out-of-the-budget
Surely the socialist solution to the housing question is simple?
Do what the communist utopia espouses and put FOUR families into a four bedroom apartment.
Gotta love that socialism.


What about when the Nats are back in after the next election and they knock labour/NZfirst's Train Set on the head again like they did last time?

Basically what labour is doing with this budget (other than mental health which I support) is all a complete and utter waste of our money!!
I'm trying to fathom why liarbour want to have a heavy rail system to Dargaville and also some unknown place north of Whangarei?
Are there that many tourists wanting to go there, or is it a waste of taxpayer's money?
Or... is the rail union being supported somehow...

[pete376403]

Surely the socialist solution to the housing question is simple?
Do what the communist utopia espouses and put FOUR families into a four bedroom apartment.
Gotta love that socialism.


I'm trying to fathom why liarbour want to have a heavy rail system to Dargaville and also some unknown place north of Whangarei?
Are there that many tourists wanting to go there, or is it a waste of taxpayer's money?
Or... is the rail union being supported somehow...

Because Auckland harbour is pretty much at maximum capacity and they want the freight to go though a Northland harbour? Keep the tourist boats coming to AUckland and send the freight north.

[Grumph]

Because Auckland harbour is pretty much at maximum capacity and they want the freight to go though a Northland harbour? Keep the tourist boats coming to AUckland and send the freight north.

Some years back now, when I was working for the Waterfront Industry Commission, I participated in a debate about future policy for NZ ports.
There were only two of us from the WIC in a room full of shipping industry people. Almost invariably right-wing of course.
The company guys wanted to keep Auckland supplied from Tauranga and Auckland port - but conceded that there was going to be a bottleneck between Tauranga and Auckland. About the one thing we all agreed on was that there was no easy fix for that bottleneck - and even then Auckland port was approaching maximum capacity.
But as good Nat supprters they couldn't bring themselves to support rail...

The Northport option is a good one. A deepwater port which has land adjacent. Upgrade the rail link and the job's a good'un.

[Laava]

I'm trying to fathom why liarbour want to have a heavy rail system to Dargaville and also some unknown place north of Whangarei?
...
Could it have anything to do with the enormous amount of export timber and dairy products that at the moment has to be trucked on the piss poor roads that people also bemoan having road funding because it is the far north? At a guess?

[Ocean1]

Some years back now, when I was working for the Waterfront Industry Commission, I participated in a debate about future policy for NZ ports.
There were only two of us from the WIC in a room full of shipping industry people. Almost invariably right-wing of course.
The company guys wanted to keep Auckland supplied from Tauranga and Auckland port - but conceded that there was going to be a bottleneck between Tauranga and Auckland. About the one thing we all agreed on was that there was no easy fix for that bottleneck - and even then Auckland port was approaching maximum capacity.
But as good Nat supprters they couldn't bring themselves to support rail...

The Northport option is a good one. A deepwater port which has land adjacent. Upgrade the rail link and the job's a good'un.

I had a bit to do with cracking containers for an inspection service provider back in the WIC days. We got involved initially for custody transfer purposes, for dangerous or sensitive cargoes. But clients quickly noticed that where inspectors were involved their losses were much, much lower, so they started to employ our services for the more mundane freight too, and for a few years it was an ongoing battle between WIC staff and our inspectors us as to who got to be present during de-vanning. Not sure who would have won the battle had the WIC not been disbanded, but the end user certainly benefited most from the winning of that war.

Having said that rail is a good answer to some urban distribution issues. Or it would be if the relevant sidings and real estate hadn't been long since flogged off. As it is the biggest lesson from the on-again, off-again rail bandwagon is that politics is no substitute for adequate asset management.

[husaberg]

But as good Nat supprters they couldn't bring themselves to support rail...

The Northport option is a good one. A deepwater port which has land adjacent. Upgrade the rail link and the job's a good'un.
I have to laugh every time someone says that vs road transport is more efficient without even having a basic concept tof the volumes involved, Why is it they claim to know yet you have to explain to them one train of coal equals over 6 fully laden trucks per hour, for 24 hours.
Or over a 700 KM round trip. 136 trips a day with 68 trucks being double shifted 7 days a week. With 136 drivers. but unfortunately as drivers can only do 6 days in a row you need another 40 drivers than that. plus a few few trucks as they are going to need to be serviced every week or so and a decent diesel mechanic is going to take all day to do two so you are going to need at least another 100 of those as well.
Not to even start on the fact trains use far les fuel per ton of freight.
Compared to about 4 train drivers and two engines and 30 wagons. and 30 people on track maintenance.

[pete376403]

Only have to watch the log trains going past my house twice a day - each train has removed at least thirty truck and trailer units from the Rimutuka Hill road. They could probably run more trains if they didnt have to schedule around the suburban passenger units, a good reason for reinstating double tracking from Upper Hutt to Trentham. This was being discussed at the same time the Blenheim street crossing was converted to single track...

[Swoop]

Because Auckland harbour is pretty much at maximum capacity and they want the freight to go though a Northland harbour? Keep the tourist boats coming to AUckland and send the freight north.


Could it have anything to do with the enormous amount of export timber and dairy products that at the moment has to be trucked on the piss poor roads that people also bemoan having road funding because it is the far north? At a guess?
Rail for timber is an option in existance already, yet the trucks seem happy to fill the roads instead.
I spoke with a company involved in hauling logs out of forrestry and the biggest gain they had was to lift the trailer onto the bed of the truck, and return back into the forrest carrying the trailer. The gains from not paying the road user charges on the trailer unit made a huge dent in costs.

The news article focussed on the Dargaville and "north" bit of the line, yet didn't mention the required spur towards Northport.

[Grumph]

I had a bit to do with cracking containers for an inspection service provider back in the WIC days. We got involved initially for custody transfer purposes, for dangerous or sensitive cargoes. But clients quickly noticed that where inspectors were involved their losses were much, much lower, so they started to employ our services for the more mundane freight too, and for a few years it was an ongoing battle between WIC staff and our inspectors us as to who got to be present during de-vanning. Not sure who would have won the battle had the WIC not been disbanded, but the end user certainly benefited most from the winning of that war.

We've had this argument before - and you still get the wrong end of the stick. WIC staff never went near a job. We administered the watersiders, tally clerks and shipwrights. Labour was requested by the shipping companies and stevedoring companies - in writing - according to an agreed manning scale for each port. That labour was supervised by company foremen answering to their management.
If there was a battle as you mention, it was between stevedoring companies and the end recipient of the goods.

Given that post WIC, the local port companies and stevedoring companies took on watersiders etc as permanent staff, the same people were doing the same jobs...Just being paid by someone else.

[Laava]

Rail for timber is an option in existance already,

Where? The majority of the logs harvested are trucked to Northport as the only option. The closest railway yard to Northport is whangarei, even though the railway goes south from there, the next closest yard is probably wellsford or te hana maybe. This push for the northport line is not a new thing, nor is the massive sustainable logging out of northland. Winston has been campaigning for a long time, maybe 20yrs or so. At the moment the lines operate as far north as Fontera Kauri but are mothballed further north to Opua as is the line from Waiotira to Dargaville. The Northport link is long overdue.

[Ocean1]

We've had this argument before - and you still get the wrong end of the stick. WIC staff never went near a job. We administered the watersiders, tally clerks and shipwrights. Labour was requested by the shipping companies and stevedoring companies - in writing - according to an agreed manning scale for each port. That labour was supervised by company foremen answering to their management.
If there was a battle as you mention, it was between stevedoring companies and the end recipient of the goods.

Given that post WIC, the local port companies and stevedoring companies took on watersiders etc as permanent staff, the same people were doing the same jobs...Just being paid by someone else.

I'm not arguing that the systemic pilfering was done by WIC officials.

And as you say 90% of the staff involved were the same immediately post WIC. Maybe the few that didn't stay on were all prolific thieves, dunno, but it's a fact that almost overnight the losses became much, much lower.

The particular battle I was referring to was local WIC supplied staff refusing to de-van containers if company representatives were present. They considered independent inspectors as company representatives, and the WIC backed them up. The inspectors were legally required to be there in order to be able to report on what was in the container at the time the seal was cracked, and I don't mean contractually obliged, I mean required by act of parliament.

It's the sort of nonsense you get every time the link between goods and or services and the payment for them is broken.

[Grumph]

I'm not arguing that the systemic pilfering was done by WIC officials.

And as you say 90% of the staff involved were the same immediately post WIC. Maybe the few that didn't stay on were all prolific thieves, dunno, but it's a fact that almost overnight the losses became much, much lower.

The particular battle I was referring to was local WIC supplied staff refusing to de-van containers if company representatives were present. They considered independent inspectors as company representatives, and the WIC backed them up. The inspectors were legally required to be there in order to be able to report on what was in the container at the time the seal was cracked, and I don't mean contractually obliged, I mean required by act of parliament.

It's the sort of nonsense you get every time the link between goods and or services and the payment for them is broken.

Again - the WIC staff were never involved in operational matters. If there was a problem as you describe it would have come from the watersiders union.
Waterside workers were not WIC staff. They were workers supplied to us by the union which we administered on the unions behalf. On the job they were employed by the company hiring them.

The WIC would have never got in between the company and the union. We supplied the forum for an independent chairman of a Port Conciliation Committee to hear both sides of any disputes, then all parties abided by the decision.

I find it very interesting that you apparently went for so many years involvement without finding out how the system worked. I worked with the labour bureau manager in Wellington while he was at Lyttelton. He would never have got involved as you suggest. Under the act that established the WIC, he couldn't.

[Ocean1]

Again - the WIC staff were never involved in operational matters. If there was a problem as you describe it would have come from the watersiders union.
Waterside workers were not WIC staff. They were workers supplied to us by the union which we administered on the unions behalf. On the job they were employed by the company hiring them.

The WIC would have never got in between the company and the union. We supplied the forum for an independent chairman of a Port Conciliation Committee to hear both sides of any disputes, then all parties abided by the decision.

I find it very interesting that you apparently went for so many years involvement without finding out how the system worked. I worked with the labour bureau manager in Wellington while he was at Lyttelton. He would never have got involved as you suggest. Under the act that established the WIC, he couldn't.

I think we're talking past each other. The workers supplied via WIC list were called WIC *expletive deleted* by pretty much everyone else on the wharf. When our guys turned up to inspect a container's contents it wasn't unusual for these guys to do everything they could to have the container opened without the inspector present. Mostly they'd just fuck around doing anything else but empty the container. Sometimes for days. And one WIC regulation or another was the most common reason given as to why they needed that inspector to fuck off before they'd do anything at all.

Several such incidences did indeed end up in dispute, as you say. Not being legally interested in any of the involved parties I was never privy to whatever decision was eventually handed down. Neither were most of the rest of the contractors working on the wharf. All we ever knew was that yet another shipment was sitting on the wharf, apparently unable to be unloaded, likely would be for months and there was apparently fuck all anyone was either able or prepared to do about it.

[Grumph]

You've been misled. There were no WIC regulations regarding work practises. There were however awards relating to the work done which were negotiated between the union and the combined shipping companies. The WIC had no part in enforcing these, it was entirely up to the union delegate and the company foreman.

To re-emphasise, the WIC was not the watersiders union - and didn't speak for them. Calling the waterside workforce WIC staff is totally wrong. Both legally - and in operational practise. I'd suspect that your information came from a shipping company rep. In some ports they were working actively to undercut the WIC with the ultimately successful aim of removing it. We saw a little of this in Lyttelton - but Bob Scott (yes, the all black) the local port Conciliation Committe chair kept most of it under control.

[Ocean1]

You've been misled. There were no WIC regulations regarding work practises. There were however awards relating to the work done which were negotiated between the union and the combined shipping companies. The WIC had no part in enforcing these, it was entirely up to the union delegate and the company foreman.

To re-emphasise, the WIC was not the watersiders union - and didn't speak for them. Calling the waterside workforce WIC staff is totally wrong. Both legally - and in operational practise. I'd suspect that your information came from a shipping company rep. In some ports they were working actively to undercut the WIC with the ultimately successful aim of removing it. We saw a little of this in Lyttelton - but Bob Scott (yes, the all black) the local port Conciliation Committe chair kept most of it under control.

Oh I've got no doubt at all I was attempted to be misled. I've also no doubt it was the workers in question on site universally referred to as WIC workers doing most of the misleading.

You can deny responsibility for them until the cows come home, god knows everyone else in the industry did, but they were nonetheless considered by most unaligned observers to be the root cause of pretty much all of the problems on the waterfront. And that, in a nutshell was the problem, they refused to be held responsible for anything at all, by anyone whatsoever. You could argue that's why the WIC was instituted in the first place.

[Swoop]

Where?
Tauranga!

10chars.

[Laava]

Tauranga!

10chars.
https://66.media.tumblr.com/8eeb544876ea3f79fea8f22739ca05b8/tumblr_obnr4fDtU71ultjoto1_500.gif

[eldog]

Tauranga!

10chars.

+

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/309928/trains-take-logging-strain-off-north-island-road

+ Napier from Wairoa

[jasonu]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12238228
What a circus. Anyone defending these morons is an even bigger moron. Even Husatwerp isn't coming to the tooth monsters defense.

[austingtir]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12238228
What a circus. Anyone defending these morons is an even bigger moron. Even Husatwerp isn't coming to the tooth monsters defense.


The same people are prepared to make statements about their own male staffers calling them rapists without a shred of evidence and then fire them for the same thing. If you people are only just now figuring out we have a bunch of maoists running this country I dont know what else to say... And the Nats arent much better!!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12234808&fbclid=IwAR0oYV73MWIoYXTsDd2dgcD52dG8VMDJ867ek9PRA 4_GJc-_Q1x_uo5r2Mc


VOTE NEW CONSERVATIVE!!

[Ocean1]

Is that Winston's Iwi fishing mates I see in the background, there?

https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/bydw31/government_reverses_policy_from_national_to_put/

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/391563/govt-criticised-for-silence-on-kermadec-ocean-sanctuary

[mashman]

Is that Winston's Iwi fishing mates I see in the background, there?

https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/bydw31/government_reverses_policy_from_national_to_put/

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/391563/govt-criticised-for-silence-on-kermadec-ocean-sanctuary

:killingme@finger pointing v's what's best for the economy i.e. the resources coz they turn into money to pay for pay rises n the likes in an economy that's only ever getting more expensive and more intensely shafted by the very same activity that needs to take place in order to pay for the pay rises n the likes. Catch-22... Nah, just plain old stupidity in action. As you were.

[austingtir]

Vote NEW CONSERVATIVE!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yAMxp_D7qY&feature=youtu.be

[Berries]

If you people are only just now figuring out we have a bunch of maoists running this country I dont know what else to say..
Excellent news.




VOTE NEW CONSERVATIVE!!
Oh dear.

[Swoop]

"Policy reset"?

Menaing the totally bullshit, unobtainable target these cunts misled the public with, will be "re-invented" to something more achievable? Doubtful, at best.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12239852

[husaberg]

"Policy reset"?

Menaing the totally bullshit, unobtainable target these cunts misled the public with, will be "re-invented" to something more achievable? Doubtful, at best.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12239852
Just to prove you are not just attempting to hold two parties to two different sets of what is acceptable.
National sold of 10,000 state houses in a housing crisis still they claimed never existed?
FFS they were trying to get rid of 2500 more in Chch before the election.
they were selling off thousands of state houses while they rented motel rooms as emergency homes for the poor. Nice one
they never built more state homes with the money.they used that to clean the thousands of houses they claimed were P damaged, which was utter rubbish and a total wate of tax payer money.
why was it In 2016, 46% of mortgages were issued to property investors/speculators in the Auckland region?

[Ocean1]

Just to prove you are not just attempting to hold two parties to two different sets of what is acceptable.

Acceptable to you?

Only, the hated Tories actually said they were going to encourage private investment in housing, partly by selling a bunch of older public housing assets in dire need of maintenance to exactly those private investors. And that'e exactly what they did. It even did what it said on the label: provided more houses, the fact that it nicely relieved the taxpayer of the obscene and rapidly growing maintenance and ongoing ownership costs was a bonus.

The Marxists called that a failure and promised that they'd provide more housing. Only it's become obvious that their need to retain the regulatory and monopolistic cluster-fuck that is the NZ house building industry is more important to their ideals, and anyone merely wanting a reasonably priced hose can just fuck right off.

Face it, it was an ill advised and cynical election stunt, preying on gullible idiots that think "the govt" is better at supplying houses than anyone spending their own hard earned money.

[austingtir]

why was it In 2016, 46% of mortgages were issued to property investors/speculators in the Auckland region?

Because we have voted for successive governments that think its a good idea to follow marxist UN mandates and bring in 80000+ immigrants to the country each year. These included wealthy chinese speculators with zero stopping them from land banking all over the show using chinese money at absurdly cheap interest rates (the chinese government is not stupid).

And these same people think our housing, health, roading and general societal norms wont change a bit when you bring in people from all over the shop and expect things to go smoothly.

The potential is there to change the demographics of NZ by 1 fifth in less than 10 YEARS!!!! If we stay on the present course which we've already been doing for atleast 8 or more.....



Again Vote NEW CONSERVATIVE!!

[husaberg]

.
nice avoidance of the facts

[jasonu]

"Policy reset"?

Menaing the totally bullshit, unobtainable target these cunts misled the public with, will be "re-invented" to something more achievable? Doubtful, at best.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12239852

Yep what a fucking joke.
But there will still be those that defend these useless pricks.

[jasonu]

But National.....

Dickhead..

[Ocean1]

nice avoidance of the facts

Fact: That national govt did exactly what they said they would, and it worked.

Fact: This labour govt made promises their heavy reliance on a high tax income would never allow them to deliver, and they're failing miserably to deliver on that promise.

Husaberg: "but that's not what it says in my revised history broadsheet!!!

So who's avoiding the facts?

[husaberg]

Dickhead..

You voted for and still 100% support Donald Trump.:msn-wink:
Isnt it odd you never can debate the topic Jason just hurt insults like ocean,, some might suggest maybe you just are not smart enough, i of course wouldn't be that mean.

[husaberg]

Fact: That national govt did exactly what they said they would, and it worked.

Fact: This labour govt made promises their heavy reliance on a high tax income would never allow them to deliver, and they're failing miserably to deliver on that promise.

Husaberg: "but that's not what it says in my revised history broadsheet!!!

So who's avoiding the facts?
The previous goverment borrowed money every year every ignored the problems pretended they never existed hoping the next lot would next it as per usual.
The Previous government spent over 1 million dollars a month cleaning up P houses that didn't need to be clean
The Previous government said they were selling of state houses to the tenants this was incorrect the majority were sold off to property investors.
Whilst at the same time spending another million dollars a month rent out hotels as emergency housing.
The Previous government said they were going to use the money from selling off statehouse in expensive areas to build many more in less expensive areas only they never did.
the previous government borrowed money 8 out of 9 years as they couldn't balance the books.
The previous government said they would not sell state assets, only they did at a loss.
These are facts you conveniently never admit.
342122342123342124342125
You are moaning about the current government not doing enough of something the previous government never did and never even acknowledged as a problem, so you are a epic level hypocrite.
You never produce facts in anyway to support your views and quite frankly your views as well as being in the minority have no factual basis at all.

[jasonu]

You voted for and still 100% support Donald Trump.:msn-wink:
Isnt it odd you never can debate the topic Jason just hurt insults like ocean,, some might suggest maybe you just are not smart enough, i of course wouldn't be that mean.

There is no debating with cunts like you and Cassina.

[jasonu]

Yep Labour, fucking champions...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12239887

[husaberg]

There is no debating with cunts like you and Cassina.

Really you throw arround a few insults about subjects you dont even understand that you dont even have have the mental capacity to back up with any form of debate other than stupid rhetoric.
I am surprised you are just a trump voter, you could be in his cabinet with a complete lack of skills like that.

[Katman]

Really you throw arround a few insults about subjects you dont even understand that you dont even have have the mental capacity to back up with any form of debate other than stupid rhetoric.
I am surprised you are just a trump voter, you could be in his cabinet with a complete lack of skills like that.

Have you given up crying to the moderators every time someone calls you a mean name?

[Ocean1]

The previous goverment borrowed money every year every ignored the problems pretended they never existed hoping the next lot would next it as per usual.
The Previous government spent over 1 million dollars a month cleaning up P houses that didn't need to be clean
The Previous government said they were selling of state houses to the tenants this was incorrect the majority were sold off to property investors.
Whilst at the same time spending another million dollars a month rent out hotels as emergency housing.
The Previous government said they were going to use the money from selling off statehouse in expensive areas to build many more in less expensive areas only they never did.
the previous government borrowed money 8 out of 9 years as they couldn't balance the books.
The previous government said they would not sell state assets, only they did at a loss.
These are facts you conveniently never admit.

And as you've been told every time you drag that particular tantrum out NZ's debt was managed below pretty much every other OECD country through the GFC. Again, who's ignoring facts that don't suit his story?


You are moaning about the current government not doing enough of something the previous government never did and never even acknowledged as a problem, so you are a epic level hypocrite.
You never produce facts in anyway to support your views and quite frankly your views as well as being in the minority have no factual basis at all.

No I'm not. In fact I'd rather they did a fucking sight less, the fact that you believe I want them to "do more" simply demonstrates how fucked up your comprehension is.

You have absolutely nothing to say about hypocrisy, you continue to argue as if I were pro national or anti labour and "translate" my posts according to what you "think" that person said. It's what ideologues do, you're utterly blind to anything that doesn't agree with your internal narrative.

What I am doing is simply pulling you up on your moronic and myopic continuous "But National" bullshit. Whether you "accept" their reasons or not the fact remains national did what they said they would. This labour outfit did one of two things: displayed an unbelievable lack of understanding about how the building industry worked... or they lied about their ability to change that. So which one is it?

[husaberg]

And as you've been told every time you drag that particular tantrum out NZ's debt was managed below pretty much every other OECD country through the GFC. Again, who's ignoring facts that don't suit his story?



No I'm not. In fact I'd rather they did a fucking sight less, the fact that you believe I want them to "do more" simply demonstrates how fucked up your comprehension is.

You have absolutely nothing to say about hypocrisy, you continue to argue as if I were pro national or anti labour and "translate" my posts according to what you "think" that person said. It's what ideologues do, you're utterly blind to anything that doesn't agree with your internal narrative.

What I am doing is simply pulling you up on your moronic and myopic continuous "But National" bullshit. Whether you "accept" their reasons or not the fact remains national did what they said they would. This labour outfit did one of two things: displayed an unbelievable lack of understanding about how the building industry worked... or they lied about their ability to change that. So which one is it?

I can sum up your entire post with
You as usual ignoring how National clearly mismanaged a entire 8 years of spending borrowing vast sums of money. At least you are consistent there.
whilst you continue to claiming Labour have issues with balancing the books when the patently obvious this is in no way true.
National clearly bullshited a whole 9 years worth of crap putting NZ further into debt making the rich 10% in NZ richer whilst eliminating what was left onf NZ's middle class in the process and you swallowed it all.
Here is a fact National is out of power for the foreseeable future and the vast majority of Kiwis are just fine about it.



Here is 333 John key National party lies.
You have to love how you dont hold them to account on a single one of them......................
I promise to always be honest
I will not be hiring Crosby/Textor
The Government I lead will be a Government of good standards.
we are not going to sack public servants, the attrition rate will reduce costs
we are not going to cut working for families
I firmly believe in climate change and always have
We seek a 50% reduction in New Zealand?s carbon-equivalent net emissions, as compared to 1990 levels, by 2050. 50 by 50. We will write the target into law.
National Ltd? will provide a consistent incentive for both biofuel and biodiesel by exempting them from excise tax or road user charges
National Ltd? will increase the number of front line police officers by 600 before the end of 2011
there is no truth in Nicky Hager?s book ?The Hollowmen?
I didn?t know about The Bretheren election tactics
If they came to us now with that proposal [re trans-Tasman Therapeutic Goods regime], we will sign it
I can?t remember my position on the 1981 Springbok Tour
Tranzrail shares
I did not mislead the House (1)
Lord Ashcroft
National Ltd? would not have sent troops into Iraq
Standard & Poors credit downgrade
the double-down grade doesn?t really matter and its only about private sector debt
I did not mislead the House (2)
I didn?t say I want wages to drop
I can?t remember why I voted against increasing the minimum wage
lifting the minimum wage to $15 an hour will increase unemployment
the real rate of inflation is 3.3 percent.
the tourism sector has not lost 7,000 jobs
no I have never heard of Whitechapel
I won?t raise GST
people who are on the average wage and have a child are $48 a week better off after the rise in GST
the purchase of farmland, by overseas buyers will be limited to ten farms per purchase
the Pike River Mine was consented to under a Labour Government
no promises were made to get the remains of the miners out of the Pike River mine
I did not provide a view on the safety of the Pike River coalmine
I did not mislead the House (3)
capping, not cutting the public service
raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour will cost 6000 jobs
north of $50 a week
privatisation won?t significantly help the economy
wave goodbye to higher taxes, not your loved ones
I never offered Brash a diplomatic job in London
Tariana Turia is ?totally fine? with the Tuhoe Treaty Claim deal
Kiwisaver
National Ltd? is not going to radically reorganise the structure of the public sector
tax cuts won?t require additional borrowing
New Zealand does not have a debt problem
New Zealand troops in Afghanistan will only be involved in training, not fighting
the wage gap between New Zealand and Australia has closed under my National Ltd? government
It took 9 years for Labour to make a complete and utter mess of the economy
National Ltd? has changed the Overseas Investment Act to include 19 different criteria
the price of goods and services has risen by 6 percent since the last election, while the after-tax average wage has actually gone up by 16 percent
no, although its a week ago and here I am being interviewed on television about them, I havn?t seen Gerry Brownlee?s comments regarding demolitions in Christchurch and which caused such outrage, but I can talk all about them
our SAS soldiers were not involved in the Kabul Hotel gunfight
the use of the Vela brother?s helicopter was required so I could attend meetings relating to national/international security concerns
the DPS makes the decision about accompanying the Prime Minister or not, I had no choice but to take them on holiday to Hawaii
I did not mislead the House (4)
oh, maybe our SAS soldiers were in the Kabul hotel gun fight but they weren?t wounded by friendly fire
New Zealand has lost $12 billion from GDP due to the Christchurch earthquake . . . oh, it might actually be around $15 billion from GDP due to the Christchurch earthquake . . . Blinglish said what?
10,000 houses will have to be demolished in Christchurch due to the earthquake
14,000 new apprentices will start training over the next five years, over and above the number previously forecast
our amendments to the ETS ensure we will continue to do our fair share internationally
we are committed to honouring our Kyoto Protocol obligations
any changes to the ETS will be fiscally neutral
New Zealand has grown for eight of the last nine quarters?
National Ltd? will tender out the government banking contract
we will be back in surplus by 2014-15
Nicky Hager?s book ?Other People?s Wars? is a work of fiction
unemployment is starting to fall
we have created 60,000 jobs
we have created 45,000 jobs
the 2011 Budget will create in the order of 170,000 jobs
I don?t know if I own a vineyard
no, I did not mislead the House (5)
the Isreali spy killed in the Christchurch quake had ?only one? passport
the Police will not need to make savings by losing jobs
I voted to keep the drinking age at 20
New Zealand is 100% Pure
I?ve been prime minister for four years, and it?s really 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year
baseball in New Zealand is attracting more government support
the decision to buy brand new BMWs was made by the Department of Internal Affairs without reference either to their minister or to me
I didn?t have a clue that Ministerial Services, which I am in charge of, was going to buy brand new BMWs
even though four of my ministers knew all about it, I didn?t have a clue that brand new BMWs were being bought.
even though my Chief of Staff met with officials to discuss purchase of the the brand new BMWs, I didn?t have a clue
even though I personally signed papers discussing the matter, I still didn?t have a clue
Labour forced us into buying the brand new BMWs, its their fault
ummm, look, sorry about that BMW thing , it was because I was so upset
I did not describe David Beckam as thick as batshit
I did not mislead the House (6)
the public demanded that we change the labour laws for The Hobbit
?The Hobbit? created 3000 new jobs
we have delivered 800 extra doctors in the public service
I did not mislead the House (7)
I wasn?t working at Elders when the sham foreign exchange deals took place
I was starting School Certificate exams in 1978
I don?t know who arrived on the CIA jet to visit the spies I am responsible for
reducing barriers to property developers will increase the availability of affordable housing
Labour left the economy in poor shape
forecasts show unemployment will fall
we have closed the wage gap with Australia by $27
Ngati Porou and Whanau Apanui are not opposed to mining
I have not had any meetings with Media Works
our [NZ?s] terms of trade remain high
the TPPA is an example of democracy
the TPPA will still have to be ratified by Parliament
National Ltd? will use the proceeds of state asset sales to invest in other public assets, like schools and hospitals
New Zealand troops will be out of Afghanistan by April 2013
overseas investment in New Zealand adds to what New Zealanders can invest on their own
overseas investment in New Zealand creates jobs, boosts incomes, and helps the economy grow
National Ltd? will build 2000 houses over the next two years
there are only 4 New Zealand SAS soldiers in Bamiyan and all working in the area of logistics and planning only
selling state assets will give cash equity to those companies
the Sky City deal will provide 1000 construction jobs and 800 casino jobs
all five bidders for the convention centre were treated equally
my office has had no correspondence, no discussions, no involvement with the Sky City deal
I did not mislead the House (8)
I can?t remember what was discussed at my meeting with the SkyCity Chief Executive on 14 May 2009
I have no record of the 12 November 2009 email from Treasury advising that the SkyCity deal was dodgy and needed to be referred to the Auditor General
there was nothing improper about the Sky City deal
SkyCity will only get ?a few more? pokie machines at the margins
any changes to gambling regulations will be subject to a full public submission process
Sky City has approached TVNZ about the purchase/use of government-owned land
I did not mislead the House (9)
this government has been very transparent about all its dealings with SkyCity
I did not mislead the House (10)
the Auditor General has fully vindicated National over the Sky City deal
I did not mislead the House (11)
the Deputy Auditor General supports the view that there was nothing inappropriate about the Sky City deal
I did not mislead the House (12)
I did not breach the confidentiality of the Auditor General?s Report into the Sky City deal
the Labour Government did exactly the same sort of deal back in 2001
Labour has promised to not revoke the Sky City legislation
the construction of the new SkyCity convention centre will not cost taxpayers or ratepayers a cent with SkyCity meeting the full project costs in return for some concessions from the Government
there?s a 50/50 chance the Hobbit is going off shore unless we do something
David Shearer has signed up for the purchase of shares in Mighty River
Solid Energy asked the government for a $1 billion capital investment
National will not be using $100 million from the sale of Mighty River Power shares to bail out Solid Energy
fracking has been going safely on in Taranaki for the past 30 years without any issues
no frontline positions will be lost at DOC
Iain Rennie came to me and recommended Fletcher for the GCSB job
I told Cabinet that I knew Ian Fletcher
I forgot that after I scrapped the shortlist for GCSB job I phoned a life-long friend to tell him to apply for the position
I told Iain Rennie I would contact Fletcher
I haven?t seen Ian Fletcher in a long time.
I did not mislead the House (13)
I have no reason to doubt at this stage that Peter Dunne did not leak the GCSB report
I called directory service to get Ian Fletcher?s number
the new legislation narrows the scope of the GCSB
the GCSB has been prevented from carrying out its functions because of the law governing its functions
because the opposition is opposed the GCSB law amendments, parliamentary urgency is required
the increasing number of cyber intrusions which I can?t detail or discuss prove that the GCSB laws need to be extended to protect private enterprise
it was always the intent of the GCSB Act to be able to spy on New Zealanders on behalf of the SIS and police
National Ltd? is not explanding the activities of the GCSB with this new law
cyber terrorists have attempted to gain access to information about weapons of mass destruction held on New Zealand computers
the law which says the GCSB cannot spy on New Zealanders is not clear
it totally incorrect that the Government effectively through GCSB will be able to wholesale spy on New Zealanders
we self identified that there was a problem with the GCSB spying on Kim Dotcom
the illegal spying on Kim Dotcom was an isolated incident
The advice I have had in 4 years as a Minister is that in no way ever has there been an indication of unlawful spying
the Ministerial Warrant signed by Bill English did not cover anything up
I wasn?t briefed about the raid on Kim Dotcom?s home.
first I heard I heard about Kim Dotcom was on 19 January 2012
first I heard about the illegal spying on Kim Dotcom was in 17 September 2012
I did not mislead the House (14)
I won?t be discussing Kim Dotcom during my Hollywood visit.
The Human Rights Commission couldn?t get its submission on the GCSB legislation in on time.
it would cost too much to for the police and SIS to carry out the spying on New Zealanders that this new legislation will permit
critics of the GCSB legislation, including the Law Society, the Human Rights Commission, and the Privacy Commission, are all uninformed
no, I did not mislead the House (15)
I do not know how Mr Henry is conducting the Inquiry
no, I did not mislead the House (16)
the Henry Inquiry had permission to view Ministers? emails
no, I did not mislead the House (??)
we do not spy on journalists
the passing of phone records to the Henry Inquiry was an error on the part of a contractor
I wasn?t aware that my own Chief of Staff was instructing Parliamentary Services to hand over information concerning journalist Andrea Vance
National Ltd? has never tried to impinge on the role of the media
I had nothing to do with information on a journalist being handed over to the inquiry into the leaking of the GCSB report
the terms of the inquiry made it clear to everyone that it was only the phone records of parliamentary staff and ministers that were to be provided
I have the utmost respect for the media and the role it plays in New Zealand?s democracy
the Henry Inquiry did not access a journalist?s building-access records
the Henry Inquiry did not ask for phone and email records
no, I did not mislead the House (17)
the Greens are opposed to the GCSB and the SIS even existing
the GCSB needs to spy on New Zealanders because there are al-Qaeda terrorists in New Zealand
the GCSB is not sharing meta-data with the NSA
John Minto is in the Green Party
the GCSB needs to spy on New Zealanders because of the terrorist threat, even though official reports released over my signature say there is no risk and the SIS has the matter in hand
the GCSB Bill does not give the GCSB the power to look at the content of communications as part of its cyber-security functions
no, I did not mislead the House (18)
Edward Snowden hacked into the NSA data base to obtain the documents which show details of the GCSB setting up a mass surveillance system
I will release documents which show that an operation to provide mass surveillance data only ever made it to the business plan stage.
Ummm . . . now that people are paying attention, the programme got underway but I stopped in in March 2013 or, askshully, it might have been September 2013.
Kim Dotcom is paying Glenn Greenwald to come to New Zealand
There?s no ambiguity. No middle ground. I?m right and Glenn Greenwald is wrong,
I?ll resign if the GCSB conducts mass surveillance
there never has been any mass surveillance and New Zealand has not gathered mass information and provided it to international agencies.
The GCSB does not have the physical capability to carry out mass surveillance
New Zealand has not gathered mass information and provided it to international agencies.?
there will be no mining on Conservation land in the Corromandel
no, I did not say we would follow the US and Australia into a war against North Korea
New Zealand has an arrangement to have asylum seekers processed in Australian detention camps
I did not mislead the house (19)
I paid for that lunch and I?ve got the credit card bill to prove it
I am honest and upfront
the only way net new jobs can be created is by private investors putting their money into businesses in New Zealand
you can?t hide if yuu?re Prime Minister
an increase in the number of people looking for work indicates that confidence is returning to the economy
the 10 percent of taxpayers in New Zealand who are the top earners pay 76 percent of all net personal tax.
I did not mislead the House (20)
Aaron Gilmour was one of a number of people in a group who were badly behaved
the substantial wage growth under Labour was eroded by inflation
National Ltd??s 2010 tax changes were fiscally neutral
I did not mislead the House (21)
the bulk of New Zealanders earn between $45,000 and $75,000 a year
Pike River Coal did not put profits and its production ahead of the safety and lives of those 29 workers.
Radio Live had sought advice from the Electoral Commission about my show just before the election
it is because of National Ltd??s policies that the price of fresh fruit and vegetables has dropped.
the length-of-the-country cycleway will create 4000 jobs.
police training for next year has not been cancelled
National Ltd? has only cut back-office jobs in the health service
The Crown?s dividend stream from the Meridians, the Mighty Rivers of the world is large and there is no motivation to sell assets; actually we?re about creating assets not selling assets.?
National believes employment law should treat all parties fairly. It should . . . Protect employees and employers.
I am not trying to tackle such issues in a ?fearful? way ahead of the next election
Wellington City is dying.
National Ltd? has been working on a number of things with New Zealand First on a number of things one of which has a financial component but I can?t talk about it
the best way to get growth in the economy is to reduce public debt
New Zealand mum and dad investors will be our number one priority in the allocation of Mighty River shares
we won?t let ?cowboy? oil exploration companies operate here in New Zealand
the Green Party is racist by not allowing Chinese residents in New Zealand to buy a house
the Labour Party is promising a four-bedroom house in Auckland for $300,000
the food in schools programme is in the 2013 budget
the meat exports are being held up in China because of issues in relation to the Chinese looking to trace counterfeit meat
its notoriously difficult to win three elections in a row
I am deeply concerned about every child in New Zealand who is in poverty
there is no manufacturing crisis in New Zealand
the government?s exposure to MediaWorks? going into receivership is reasonably limited
the money from the sale of state assets will not be used to prop up Solid Energy
I don?t see a place for a Winston Peters-led New Zealand First in a government that I lead. It?s not a matter of political convenience, it?s a matter of political principle.
The vast majority of the buildings in Christchurch came through the earthquakes in good shape
the commemoration of New Zealand?s involvement in the Korean War will not be used to bolster trade talks
third generation Chinese New Zealanders will be required to present their passport before buying a house under the Labour government
the Labour housing policy is an attempt by David Shearer to save his leadership
the Labour housing policy is in breach of free trade agreements
only 2% of the proceeds of the sale of Mighty River will be spent on the sales process
David Cunliffe is lying to you
Labour wants to nationalise the super market industry
The government will engage in no further negotiations with Rio Tinto
Without a government subsidy of hundreds of millions of dollars Chorus will go broke
No, I did not mislead the House (??)
the justice system is already adequate for handling situations involving new evidence
my Minister Nick Smith was not aware of the content of the leaked draft submission on the Ruataniwha situation until 17 September
New Zealand First will nationalise a host of industries and businesses
I have no responsibility for the statements I make
Mark Mitchell was just gossiping at a cocktail party when he tipped Webster off about Len Brown?s affair
it was a lack of external analysis and accountability which put Solid Energy into its debt crisis
the Commerce Commission misinterpreted the law when deciding the price for access to the Chorus copper infrastructure
no analyist predicted that the cost of access to the copper infrastructure would go down
there has been only one problem with oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico
If it was my vote, it would be no pay increases for Mps
Greenpeace are just scare mongering about any oil leaks off the New Zealand coast
For every election for the last five elections , we have had royal visitors to New Zealand.
No decision has been made on the timing of the sale of Air New Zealand shares
its not true that in New Zealand the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer
This summer is the most active season ever for oil and gas exploration, with the industry spending up to $750 million. At the same time, the Government is strengthening the regulations that govern drilling, particularly in deep water.
Labour is trying to mislead people about eligibility for Best Start because they don?t get the payment while they also get paid parental leave.
A mountain of evidence shows that the quality of teaching ? inside the classroom ? is the biggest influence on kids? achievement
Governor General Jerry Mateparae has been jostled while walking onto Te Tii Marae at Waitangi .
Cameron Slater, who I speak to regularly and who told me about Winston meeting Kim Dot Com, has got absolutely nothing to do with the National Party.
Cameron Slater rang me
What I do know is that when this Government came in, there were predictions that unemployment would rise to over 10 percent.
The Cabinet Office had cleared Judith Collins of a conflict of interest
The golf tournament in which I played the chairman of Oravida was for charity.
The Cabinet Office has cleared Collins of a conflict of interest after it translated comments on Oravida?s website which stated that she had praised its products
My Justice Minister, Judith Collins, didn?t lie to Parliament, she just didn?t understand the question.
The [MFAT] paperwork shows right through this that not only did the Minister have a very busy programme, all on judicial and justice issues, but, secondly, all the way through it talks about a private dinner.
No, I did not mislead parliament. (??)
No, I did not mislead the House(??)
The Unions decide the leadership of the Labour Party and picked David Cunliffe
Unions give the Labour Party millions of dollars a year
The economic mess inherited by the Abbott government in Australia can be likened to the economic mess inherited by National Ltd? when it came into office in 2008.
National Ltd? inherited an economic mess from Labour
National Ltd? inherited an economic mess from Labour in 2008
No, I did not mislead the House(??)
Twelve percent of New Zealand households pay 76 percent of all net tax in New Zealand
Natinal Ltd? ignored the plight of babies living in the poorest famililies because there is other assistance available
the Malaysian government declined to waive diplomatic immunity for the man charged with burglary and attempted rape
the UN officials visiting down south are focussing on sustainable agriculture
I would apologise to the woman if I knew who she was
My government has led the charge on the transperancy of MPs? spending
Only 1 percent of New Zealand farm land is in foreign ownership
Internet Mana put together the video depicting a burning effigy of me.
Under National Ltd? the prison population has gone down.
National Ltd? has been nowwhere near the Labour party computer system
The OIA request to the SIS about Phil Goff?s briefing on the Isreali spies had nothing to do with my office.
National Ltd? talks to the blogs exactly the same way we talk to the MSM
The allegations in Nicky Hager?s book are all wrong.
Nicky Hager has got nothing to prove any of the allegations.
All this stuff in ?Dirty Politics? is coming from the left.
National Ltd? is not using blogs as attack sites any more than anyone would do
The release of ?Dirty Politics? is part of a coordinated attack from the left because it is unable to win the discussion on the issues that matter.
Very little of the book ?Diry Politics? is about me.
Most of the assumptions and allegations made by Nicky Hager in ?Dirty Politics? are dissolving before his eyes.
All of Nicky Hager?s allegations are unravelling.
Nicky Hager didn?t check the facts before publishing ?Dirty Politics
When National came into office the economy was in tatters.
Over the last year an extra 84,000 jobs were created.
In our party we believe in supporting families.
The Greens have two co-leaders who want to be co-deputy-prime ministers in some kind of bizarre job-sharing experiment.
?Internet-Mana put the burning efigy video together
No one other than Cameron Slater asked for the SIS document confirming that Phil Goff had been breifed on the Israeli spies in Christchurch.
I wasn?t informed that the SIS was going to release the information about the Israeli spies in Christchurch to Cameron Slater.
Under Labour, family homes held in a trust will attract the Capital Gains Trust
More than 300,000 New Zealanders have their homes held in a trust
New Zealand already has a Capital Gains Tax
2014 Election
There will be no New Zealand military intervention in Iraq, barring an unlikely United Nations Security Council mission
There will be no more asset sales
David Seymour did not ask for a Ministerial position with the National Party
The New Zealand military personnel are just attending a regular ordinary meeting in the United States (x 13 times)
New Zealand is not involved in any coalition to fight in the Middle East
It is not currently illegal for someone to fight overseas for a terrorist group
When it comes to requests for official information, my ministers always act within the law.
I have never called or texted Cameron Slater in my capacity as Prime Minister
No, I did not mislead the House. (??)
I did not admit to having abused the OIA process.
I did not mislead the House(??)
The Gwynn Report into the handling of OIA requests by the SIS completely exonerated me
Its not true that the process I put in place for the SIS reporting to me was politicised
The review into Judith Collins has got nothing to do with the release of information to Cameron Slater
My office had nothing to do with the release of information to Cameron Slater
No, I did not mislead the House (??)
I can?t remember all the phone texts I exchanged except when I say I can
I did not engage in an exchange of text messages with Cameron Slater, I just acknowledged one unsolicited message from him
The DPMC head attended the Roger Sutton PR conference because his department is taking over Cera next year.
New Zealand was one of the very few countries in the world that were settled peacefully.
I was being asked a specific question about the Chisholm report when I said I had had not contact with Cameron Slater
No, I did not mislead the House
When the particular question was asked there was quite a lot of noise in the house and so I only heard the first bit.
I have not been in contact with Cameron Slater ahead of the release of Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security Cheryl Gwyn?s report into the SIS?s role in Slater?s 2011 political attack on former Labour Leader Phil Goff.
No, I did not mislead the House (??)
The number of children in those low decile schools which I have visited who actually require lunch is the odd one or two
The Greens are responsible for the rise in income equality within New Zealand
I don?t want to overly concern or frighten people about the threat of a terrorist action in New Zealand.
Labour is promoting a separatist approach to dealing with the Treaty of Waitangi which could result in Northland becoming an independent republic
The owner of Oravida, Stone Shi, won a round of golf with me after he placed the winning bid at a charity auction
I didn?t know until late January 2015 that Mike Sabin was facing family issues which may lead to his resignation
My meeting with Donghua Liu was not a Cabinet Club meeting, oh, hang on, yes it was, oh, maybe it wasn?t
Labour did not seek a Parliamentary vote when sending SAS troops into Afghanistan on a combat mission and didn?t even tell New Zealand they were going
When I said ?the price of The Club? I meant ?The Club? was all the 62 nations in the US-led coalition of troops to fight in Iraq
New Zealanders gave National Ltd? a two year mandate to send troops into Iraq as part of the US-led coalition
News about repairing bridges in Northland is just the standard release of policy
Nicky Hager and Kim Dotcom prevented National Ltd? from announcing the decision to upgrade ten bridges in Northland.
New Zealand gas emissions have not increased since I became Prime Minister
If you think about iTunes, if you download a song and it?s $1.29, there?s no reason the GST shouldn?t apply to that. In reality, GST would be 2 cents
The timing of the release of information about GCSB spying on Tim Grocer?s WTO rivals was deliberate and all part of a particular agenda by Nicky Hager and some others
Major roading projects and the free trade deal with Korea will be at risk if Winston Peters wins the Northland election
It was my office, not the police, which was the first to be told about the 1080 infant formula blackmail threat.
There is no housing crisis in Auckland
I promise that ?metadata? will be defined in legislation
You are allowed to use the resources of the officials during an election in terms of what would be Government policy
No, I did not mislead the House (??)
As long as Simon Bridges didn?t get any policy advice from his officials about developing the ?10 bridges for your vote!? bribe, then there?s no possible problem under the Cabinet Manual.
Labour did the same thing as Bridges when it used ?officials actually in my opinion actually? to get policy advice as they did in the 2008 campaign with deposit guarantees, but they actually maybe they shouldn?t have done it?
I assumed that all ten bridges up for double-laning in Northland were justified on a cost benefit analysis
Claims the GCSB was planning to hack into a data link run by the Chinese embassy are unproven.
When it comes to the GCSB you?ve got a bunch of people who?ve been out there propagating information that?s actually been proven to be incorrect.
When I gave her the two bottles of wine, the cafe worker thanked me for that and said ?that?s all fine, no drama'?.
At the Hip Group?s coffee shop we have lots of fun and games, there?s always lots of practical jokes and things.
I will talk to the King of Saudi Arabia about women?s rights including the right to vote
House prices rose faster under Labour
The $1,000 kick-start for new KiwiSaver members will remain as it is now
There will be no new taxes
Over the next two years we are going to create 150,000 new jobs
The average wage will move from $55,000 to $62,000
We spent $11.5 million for a Saudi Arabian to set up a farm in order to avoid potential legal claims
Andrew Little has been set up by Annette King and Phil Goff
The problem requiring the $11.5 million bribe was caused by Labour?s previous Minister of Trade, Phil Goff
No, I did not mislead the House (???)
I was not aware of any potential legal action by the Saudis involved in the live sheep trade.
Labour was looking to make the same sort of deal with the Saudis and knew all about the possibility of legal action.
Details in cabinet papers confirming what I?ve said about Labour have been redacted by officials.
Signifcantly reducing New Zealand?s green-house gas emissions would be disastrous for the economy
We don?t have to give iwi first right of refusal on the Auckland land the government intends for private housing development
No decisions have yet been made about future housing developments on specific pieces of land
Nick Smith Smith was helpfully providing journalists with a ?conceptual? view of the amount of vacant land in Auckland, not necessarily places where houses might be built.
Between 3000 and 4000 refugees were welcomed into New Zealand every year once the family reunification scheme was taken into account.
New Zealand is sixth in the world when it comes to accepting in UNHCR refugees.
Australia takes in 20,000 refugees a year and has been doing so for a long time.(2)
Milk is more expensive in the UK than it is in New Zealand
Milk powder prices won?t stay down for long
Formal advice from the Inland Revenue Department states that the removal of the $1,000 kickstart contribution will not make a blind bit of difference to the number of people who join KiwiSaver
No, I did not mislead the House (??)
I never said that a whole month of Maori language would make people bored.
I would never give an answer with ?an intention to embarrass someone or make someone upset?
Yes, my team of crack ministers are going to give Mr Al-Khalaf $11 million or whatever it is, but he?s putting in $80 million
National Ltd? has been way more transparent than any other Government that?s been around
Treasury was consulted about the details of the Saudi sheep farm deal
the Saudi sheep farm deal was for the purchase of services, intellectual property, and a network of contacts
When asked by Radio New Zealand about what exact services, intellectual property, and contacts New Zealand gained from the deal I answered the questions absolutely but Susie Fergusson didn?t want to hear that the whole issue was Labour?s fault
The problem which led up to the Saudi sheep farm deal was caused by Labour.
The Saudi sheep farm deal was never about compensation even though I said earlier it was because Labour left the government liable for a claim for compensation
Labour misled the Saudi investors about the live sheep trade
No, I did not mislead the House. (??)
There was no suggestion made to a Saudi businessman that he could sue the New Zealand Government
Protesters against TPPA are misinformed and only about one-third of them are genuine
There isn?t a single Canadian on this planet who would want to change their flag back to the old one
Changing the flag will deliver billions of dollars to the New Zealand economy
Maurice Williamson wasn?t acting in his capacity as a member of parliament when he made his series of disgusting jokes
My government?s target of reducing 100% Pure Clean Green New Zealand?s greenhouse gas emissions to 11 percent below 1990 levels by 2030 is not inadequate.
New Zealand cannot take any more refugees until we have sorted out the process and had a look at housing stock.
National will set up two recreational fishing parks, one in the Haukraki and another in Marlborough sounds
If the ?Red Peak? design does not get on the ballot paper the sole person responsible for that is Andrew Little
New Zealand doesn?t need a policy on dealing with climate change refugees because that?s not an issue we are going to need to deal with in the next year or two
?To accept any other flag ? we would have to change the law, and we?re not going back to Parliament to change the law.? John Key Sep 7.
Assets bought out of the < a href= http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/281741/pm-accused-of-breaking-election-promise> Future Investment Fund</a> will be long-lived, here in New Zealand, and owned by the Crown on behalf of all taxpayers
I promise to spend $1 billion on health, $1 billion on schools and $400 million on irrigation from the proceeds of asset sales.
As the personal who signs off on sending troops to Iraq I feel very intimately involved with this operation. I take personal responsibility.
I did not know about the report into the conditions at Taji prior to my arrival there even though the report was released on 30 September
It was the Overseas Investment Office which refused permission for Shanghai Pengxin to buy Lochinver Station
My office and I both obey the word and the spirit of the OIA law
Labour prefers to protect the interests of rapists and child molesters rather than those of ordinary New Zealanders
New Zealand citizens detained on Christmas Island are there voluntarily
New Zealanders held on Christmas Island include murderers and rapists
?The question about broader detainees.?
Australia and New Zealand share common values, including a strong commitment to democracy, human rights, and the rule of law.
Labour wants to fly the Christmas Island detainees back to NZ?
I?ve never been asked to apologise for saying the opposition supports rapists and murderers
I?m making sure New Zealanders are protected?
With regard to emission from agriculture and our high level of renewable electricity generation, New Zealand faces unique domestic challenges in reducing its emissions,?
Judith Collins was completely cleared by an independent inquiry
A major contributor to the fact that there are so many children living in poverty is because their parents are using drugs
The reason there is poverty in New Zealand is due to people not working
The science around climate change predictions is doubtful
The TPP has to go through our Parliament has to be ratified by our Parliament and has to bear scrutiny
Not a single part of TPP cuts across the Treaty of Waitangi

[Ocean1]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

https://www.primaryhealthtas.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Mental-Health-Act-Form-4-Protective-Custody-BP.rtf

Dude, for fuck's sake take your med's.

[husaberg]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

https://www.primaryhealthtas.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Mental-Health-Act-Form-4-Protective-Custody-BP.rtf

Dude, for fuck's sake take your med's.
Gee someone doesn't like 333 examples of what you claim is an outrage
Anyone would think you held some epic level bias that dent allow you not to be a total hypocrite.

Lets go Through all of the National Party projects one by one aye.
We will start with the Clyde Dam
Lets see original price 200 Million
Final price well 2 billion but whose counting..............
how many years late....... oh only about 10 or was it 15.
Generation capacity well due to someone not noticing a sluce gate in the wrongplace 2/3 of the original spec
Not to worry sell of 40% of its owner contact energy for 1 billion dollars
What elese did contact enery own oh only
Ohaaki Geothermal Flash steam Ohaaki, Waikato
Poihipi Geothermal Flash steam Wairakei, Waikato
Roxburgh Hydroelectric Conventional Roxburgh, Otago
Stratford Gas Open-cycle / Combined-cycle turbine Stratford, Taranaki
Thanks for selling those off for nowhere near their real worth.........................

[austingtir]

Have you given up crying to the moderators every time someone calls you a mean name?


I should take a pic of all this clowns negs compared to everyone else bothering with the green vs red system.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71Rtz0Cr8lU

http://i.imgur.com/j314Az5.gif

[Swoop]

Yep Labour, fucking champions...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12239887
They have to support their education union supporters "somehow"...


they were selling off thousands of state houses while they rented motel rooms as emergency homes for the poor.
An interesting comment was passed at work the other day. The father of an employee was complaining about his house in which he lives alone...
His FOUR bedroom house.
STATE house...

And there is a "housing crisis". Remember that residents of state houses seem to think that they OWN the property, and are not just renting it off of the taxpayers!

Solving the "housing crisis" is simple if they just follow the socialist principles of shoving four families into a single building - "1 bedroom per family comrades!"



... partly by selling a bunch of older public housing assets in dire need of maintenance...
Similar to the old Auckland Cuntcil Building which is a festering disaster and asbestos biohazard. Good luck to the developers with that shithole!

[husaberg]

An interesting comment was passed at work the other day. The father of an employee was complaining about his house in which he lives alone...
His FOUR bedroom house.
STATE house...
And there is a "housing crisis". Remember that residents of state houses seem to think that they OWN the property, and are not just renting it off of the taxpayers!
Solving the "housing crisis" is simple if they just follow the socialist principles of shoving four families into a single building - "1 bedroom per family comrades!"


You might want to explain what that has to do with selling off thousands of houses pretending the money was to be used to build more when it was never spend on building more...............

[jasonu]

They have to support their education union supporters "somehow"...


An interesting comment was passed at work the other day. The father of an employee was complaining about his house in which he lives alone...
His FOUR bedroom house.
STATE house...

And there is a "housing crisis". Remember that residents of state houses seem to think that they OWN the property, and are not just renting it off of the taxpayers!
!

They should put 3 other complete single strangers looking for state housing in it.
In fact that could be the new policy. You have a spare room in your state house, we will fill it with who ever is next on the list.

[Scubbo]

why that is not done now doesn't make sense -- surely its for those in dire need?

[husaberg]

They should put 3 other complete single strangers looking for state housing in it.
In fact that could be the new policy. You have a spare room in your state house, we will fill it with who ever is next on the list.

Maybe you should move to NZ and stand for parliament seeing your ideas for what NZ should do are so great, people with be falling over themselves to vote for you, wont they.
On second thoughts run for US president they have even lower standards.............
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SmugNearBoto-size_restricted.gif

[Ocean1]

Similar to the old Auckland Cuntcil Building which is a festering disaster and asbestos biohazard. Good luck to the developers with that shithole!

Mate you have no idea. A close relative repairs state houses for a living, the cops certainly don't have a monopoly on good work stories. The difference in maintenance costs for private homes vs state houses is unbelievable.

[Swoop]

Mate you have no idea. A close relative repairs state houses for a living, the cops certainly don't have a monopoly on good work stories. The difference in maintenance costs for private homes vs state houses is unbelievable.
A mate does insurance reinstatement work for public housing...
Yup, the stories are jaw-droppingly unbelieveable.

[Swoop]

You might want to explain what that has to do with selling off thousands of houses pretending the money was to be used to build more when it was never spend on building more...............
So, a bit like liarbour's "NO more money for teachers" really meaning "yes, we'll be held to ransom for another 300mil"?

[husaberg]

A mate does insurance reinstatement work for public housing...
Yup, the stories are jaw-droppingly unbelieveable.

Yeah millions wasted.
https://www.vice.com/en_nz/article/438xx3/meth-testing-in-new-zealand-officially-revealed-as-a-sham
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12061507
https://www.interest.co.nz/property/93978/ground-breaking-new-report-reveals-nz%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98moral-panic%E2%80%99-meth-contamination-houses-has

[pritch]

Mate you have no idea. A close relative repairs state houses for a living, the cops certainly don't have a monopoly on good work stories. The difference in maintenance costs for private homes vs state houses is unbelievable.

A friend of mine had a relationship with a solo mum. Thinking to make the relationship permanent he enquired of Housing Corp, or whatever its name was at the time, about buying her near new state house. The price quoted was a shock so he went elsewhere. For less than he was quoted for a state house in a state housing area, he had an architect designed house built in a very nice street that subsequently won "Street Of The Year" several times.

There might be more reasons for high state housing costs than just damage by residents?

[Ocean1]

A friend of mine had a relationship with a solo mum. Thinking to make the relationship permanent he enquired of Housing Corp, or whatever its name was at the time, about buying her near new state house. The price quoted was a shock so he went elsewhere. For less than he was quoted for a state house in a state housing area, he had an architect designed house built in a very nice street that subsequently won "Street Of The Year" several times.

There might be more reasons for high state housing costs than just damage by residents?

I wasn't suggesting for a moment that any govt dept might be anything short of utterly abysmal in spending taxpayer's money, far less that train wreck of a fiasco. I've been trying to find a decade old analysis of the value returned from govt spending compared to that achieved by those that actually earned the money. Memory says it was something just short of 30%.

It remains a fact that state tenants are the recipients of free maintenance and repair services most private home owners can only dream of affording to have done by a professional.

[jasonu]

It remains a fact that state tenants are the recipients of free maintenance and repair services most private home owners can only dream of .

and it is never enough.

[husaberg]

I wasn't suggesting for a moment that any govt dept might be anything short of utterly abysmal in spending taxpayer's money, far less that train wreck of a fiasco. I've been trying to find a decade old analysis of the value returned from govt spending compared to that achieved by those that actually earned the money. Memory says it was something just short of 30%.

It remains a fact that state tenants are the recipients of free maintenance and repair services most private home owners can only dream of affording to have done by a professional.
Arn't you just a bitter old codger.
So what children get free healthcare, old people get the pension, pedestrians get footpaths, councils provide public toilets.
At least the current lot doesn't have to borrow money so people can get "TAX cuts" we clearly cant afford.
But feel free to moan on about how you can do better and how much your opinion matters when its clear you are a minority in your views.
https://cdn1.tvnz.co.nz/content/dam/images/news/2019/06/09/POLL_AR_6PM.transfer_frame_2309.png.hashed.f40ed0d 5.desktop.story.inline.jpg

[oldrider]

I wasn't suggesting for a moment that any govt dept might be anything short of utterly abysmal in spending taxpayer's money, far less that train wreck of a fiasco. I've been trying to find a decade old analysis of the value returned from govt spending compared to that achieved by those that actually earned the money. Memory says it was something just short of 30%.

It remains a fact that state tenants are the recipients of free maintenance and repair services most private home owners can only dream of affording to have done by a professional.

We now live on the edge of an Housing Corp subdivision where some (50%?) of the houses have been bought privately by tenants.

Interesting hearing the conversational comments regarding how much money the tenants are getting spent on upgrades and maintenance at no extra cost to the tenants.

The private owners appear to be paying more for equivalent work due to bulk contract pricing (housing corp) against smaller individual job quotes for the private houses?

Neighbour next door grows trees galore - gets paid allowance to clean up her section - we have to pay to clean up all the crap that comes over the fence into our place.

Not complaining just saying - We prefer to own our own home! - It is what it is! :sunny:

[Ocean1]

But nashnil....

Fuck off you deluded fuckwit.

[husaberg]

Fuck off you deluded fuckwit.

Maybe if you could refute the points you wouldn't need the abuse. But of course you cant do that can you, thats the differece between posting ill considered opininated rhetoric, because you dont comprehend stuff and having something practical and useful and more importantly well thought out to say.
Good luck finding the other 40% you need for Natzi leader to be the preferred leader of NZ, maybe if you find other four sets of co leaders...............
If you feel you are the mastermind of all things political and everyone else is just not as smart as you show some guts and stand for Parliament like Mashy did, i doubt you will even get his level of support.

[sidecar bob]

I see Labour is about to make it easier for the lazy & disorganised to vote come next election.
They clearly understand who their supporters are.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113637414/ballot-boxes-at-supermarkets-and-malls-among-electoral-changes-for-2020
Voting, for me has always involved putting in a bit of effort to go somewhere I don't usually go, which I felt prevented people from voting on a whim, a bit like picking up a Crunchie bar while paying for petrol.
Oh well, nothing special about it now. You can even enroll at the same time.

[Ocean1]

I see Labour is about to make it easier for the lazy & disorganised to vote come next election.
They clearly understand who their supporters are.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113637414/ballot-boxes-at-supermarkets-and-malls-among-electoral-changes-for-2020
Voting for me has always involved putting in a bit of effort to go somewhere I don't usually go, which I felt prevented people from voting on a whim, a bit like picking up a crunchier bar while paying for petrol.
Oh well, nothing special about it now. You can even enroll at the same time.

Voting booths exclusively at teh queue at WINZ wouldn't surprise me.

Not sure what our turnout is nowadays but it used to be high by international standards. Higher than the US, where it's supposedly compulsory.

[pritch]

Voting booths exclusively at teh queue at WINZ wouldn't surprise me.



Haven't heard of that, but there did used to be a guy in the foyer of the local office asking anyone who entered the building if they wished to enrol. WINZ were in the building, as were lawyers, accountants, surveyors and others.

Actually I approve of the moves. It's a major contrast to the gerrymandering and voter supression that goes on the US.

[austingtir]

Haven't heard of that, but there did used to be a guy in the foyer of the local office asking anyone who entered the building if they wished to enrol. WINZ were in the building, as were lawyers, accountants, surveyors and others.

Actually I approve of the moves. It's a major contrast to the gerrymandering and voter supression that goes on the US.

And there you go again acting like you know an ounce of what your talking about.

[Ocean1]

Haven't heard of that, but there did used to be a guy in the foyer of the local office asking anyone who entered the building if they wished to enrol. WINZ were in the building, as were lawyers, accountants, surveyors and others.

Actually I approve of the moves. It's a major contrast to the gerrymandering and voter supression that goes on the US.

Yeah I remember that, a sort of internal, under the counter reverse gerrymandering. :laugh:

I dunno, though, I tend to think that if you struggle to get out of bed to vote then I'm not sure if your opinion about how the country should work is all that valuable.

In fact I could make a strong case for voting eligibility dependent on a short economics quiz. Maybe some history.

[sidecar bob]

Phil can wash his hands of it now.
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/cabinet-reshuffle-twyford-loses-housing-portfolio
If only it was that easy in real life.
Apparently it's not an admission of failure, it's that the portfolio was too big for one minister.
These ministers can employ as many minions as they require, it's hardly like he was doing it himself at all.
The guy had failure written all over him prior to the election & he didn't dissapoint.

[jasonu]

Phil can wash his hands of it now.
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/cabinet-reshuffle-twyford-loses-housing-portfolio
If only it was that easy in real life.
Apparently it's not an admission of failure, it's that the portfolio was too big for one minister.
These ministers can employ as many minions as they require, it's hardly like he was doing it himself at all.
The guy had failure written all over him prior to the election & he didn't dissapoint.

A total bunch of fuckwits.

[sidecar bob]

A total bunch of fuckwits.

And announce it all the night before they all head off on a few weeks well earned leave & can't be interviewed about it until it's old news.
120 homes to date when we were promised 1000 by now, & the gullible & stupid voted for it in droves.

[Scubbo]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113843874/trade-me-reports-uncommon-rent-rise

who would have thunk it -- eh well, least you'll live in an insulated home with a heater ?? >_>

[sidecar bob]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113843874/trade-me-reports-uncommon-rent-rise

who would have thunk it -- eh well, least you'll live in an insulated home with a heater ?? >_>

Are they really "vulnerable renters"? $120 buys $120 worth of product, I can do them one for six times that at the mo if they want, very nice it is too.
Of course it's going to be a cold dark garage if nobody turns the light on or puts a heater on in Christchurch at this time of year, cut the emotional crap headliner.
Some people either fear the commitment of owning a home, or want to live a life of luxury in a beautiful rented home instead of doing the hard graft to get there of their own accord.
Nobody is forcing anybody to rent a house anywhere, the whole thing is driven from the free will of the renter, with the law stacked firmly in their favour.

[Scubbo]

the gov was warned that this was going to happen too, their reasoning for forcing accommodation standards right now was they'll build more state homes/kiwibuild to saturate the market and drive down rents before the rent increase would be passed on... or something like that? (out of touch with everything including TIME)

that's' the problem when you have ministers with no real world experience, just ideals based upon reading a book and talking in coffee houses

[Ocean1]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113843874/trade-me-reports-uncommon-rent-rise

who would have thunk it -- eh well, least you'll live in an insulated home with a heater ?? >_>


"with the new insulation rules for rental homes coming into effect on July 1, we think landlords may be passing this cost on to tenants."

Ya think?

Seems there's a abundance of articles in every news source almost daily expressing indignant outrage any time a tenant is expected to pay somewhere close to the actual cost of supplying a house.

[sidecar bob]

Ya think?

Seems there's a abundance of articles in every news source almost daily expressing indignant outrage any time a tenant is expected to pay somewhere close to the actual cost of supplying a house.

It's not landlord greed, it's simply a matter of survival.
Just the difference between a floating rate or a fixed rate can be the difference between sink or swim.

[george formby]

Are they really "vulnerable renters"? $120 buys $120 worth of product, I can do them one for six times that at the mo if they want, very nice it is too.
Of course it's going to be a cold dark garage if nobody turns the light on or puts a heater on in Christchurch at this time of year, cut the emotional crap.
Some people either fear the commitment of owning a home, or want to live a life of luxury in a beautiful rented home instead of doing the hard graft to get there of their own accord.
Nobody is forcing anybody to rent a house anywhere, the whole thing is driven from the free will of the renter, with the law stacked firmly in their favour.

My partner showed a prospective tenant around a 3 bedroom property recently. They asked if the walls were insulated. Er' no, it's 30 years old. They demanded that we were obliged, by law, to do this. :angry2: She agreed to have all the walls pulled down and insulation installed but the rent would have to cover the cost. $900 per week was suggested. First payment due when the builders turned up.

I believe they are still looking for somewhere to live.

[sidecar bob]

My partner showed a prospective tenant around a 3 bedroom property recently. They asked if the walls were insulated. Er' no, it's 30 years old. They demanded that we were obliged, by law, to do this. :angry2: She agreed to have all the walls pulled down and insulation installed but the rent would have to cover the cost. $900 per week was suggested. First payment due when the builders turned up.

I believe they are still looking for somewhere to live.

Oh, an "I know my rights" tenant. Second best kind.
If anyone (Husa) can be arsed to dig back through my posts I did say these things would drive rent up, over a year ago.

[jasonu]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113843874/trade-me-reports-uncommon-rent-rise

who would have thunk it -- eh well, least you'll live in an insulated home with a heater ?? >_>

Didn’t take a genius to see that one coming. The renters can thank the Labour Party for that.

Funny you don't hear any but National's from berk. Hard to defend these dummies...

[Ocean1]

It's not landlord greed, it's simply a matter of survival.
Just the difference between a floating rate or a fixed rate can be the difference between sink or swim.

I had a tenant who wanted a heat pump installed, as one of the several electric space heaters had shat itself. She'd read that heat pumps were much cheaper to run and thought that made it an obviously beneficial choice for me. I pointed out that the installed cost was approximately the same as the savings from the increased efficiency. She wasn't paying for the installation though, and no matter how I tried I simply couldn't get her to understand that I would be substantially worse off. Lovely girl, just couldn't see past the 75% savings to her heating costs, completely unable to comprehend any other point of view.

[husaberg]

Oh, an "I know my rights" tenant. Second best kind.
If anyone (Husa) can be arsed to dig back through my posts I did say these things would drive rent up, over a year ago.

The main center rents have gone down or stayed the same, you clearly never said that would happen. So what gives why did you not predict that would happen, you said the reverse would occur.
Did any of you guys actually read past past the first paragraph. before slapping each other on tha backs?
The rents have also not gone up as much as under the last government for the same time period overall, You never said that as well?


"While rents rocketed in the provinces, the main centres were steady. The median weekly rent in Auckland has remained at $560 per week for most of the year and rents in Canterbury appear to be experiencing a similar trend, hovering around the $400 mark since September last year. After a red hot summer rents in Wellington have cooled, falling $25 on January's high to $525 per week in May," he said.

I expect more from you........:msn-wink:

[pete376403]

I had a tenant who wanted a heat pump installed, as one of the several electric space heaters had shat itself. She'd read that heat pumps were much cheaper to run and thought that made it an obviously beneficial choice for me. I pointed out that the installed cost was approximately the same as the savings from the increased efficiency. She wasn't paying for the installation though, and no matter how I tried I simply couldn't get her to understand that I would be substantially worse off. Lovely girl, just couldn't see past the 75% savings to her heating costs, completely unable to comprehend any other point of view.

For the landlord, are the costs of supply and installation not a tax-deductible expense?

[Ocean1]

For the landlord, are the costs of supply and installation not a tax-deductible expense?

Yes, but so is the cost of a $100 wall mounted electric heater. And even if the govt decide to subsidise heat pumps for investment properties they'll still be thousands of dollars more expensive. For some properties I'd still buy one, the market for a modern inner city townhouse would more or less expect one and the revenue would support the extra cost.

[Ocean1]

The main center rents have gone down or stayed the same, you clearly never said that would happen. So what gives why did you not predict that would happen, you said the reverse would occur.
Did any of you guys actually read past past the first paragraph. before slapping each other on tha backs?
The rents have also not gone up as much as under the last government for the same time period overall, You never said that as well?

I expect more from you........:msn-wink:

Didn't need to read past the headline really: Trade Me reports 'uncommon' rent rise


https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113843874/trade-me-reports-uncommon-rent-rise

who would have thunk it -- eh well, least you'll live in an insulated home with a heater ?? >_>

Maybe an in depth reading will reveal you're right, and rents are plummeting....


Every region in New Zealand had higher rental asking prices in May than they did a year before, Trade Me's latest data shows.

It has released its May Rental Price Index, which shows the three largest cities had significant rent price growth and eight regions had strong double-digit increases.

Five parts of the country - Southland, Taranaki, Northland, Otago and the West Coast - hit new records.

"It's very uncommon for us to see year-on-year rental price growth in every region, particularly at this time of year when we would expect the rental market to cool," said Trade Me Head of Property Nigel Jeffries.

No? Well fuck me it looks like h'berg is reinterpreting the world with his red coloured crayons again.

[Ocean1]

More deep and illuminating analysis....

http://www.thecivilian.co.nz/kiwibuild-house-prices-soar-finding-new-value-as-a-collectors-item/

[husaberg]

Didn't need to read past the headline really: Trade Me reports 'uncommon' rent rise



Maybe an in depth reading will reveal you're right, and rents are plummeting....



No? Well fuck me it looks like h'berg is reinterpreting the world with his red coloured crayons again.
You clearly didnt, the lot of you.
you use an example of the 5 least populated provenances of NZ but ignore the majority
only 30,000 people live on the West coast
The coast probably has a much higher percentage of ownership as well but dont tlet that get in the way of a good diversion

How many million in CHCH Auckland an wellington
I guess those cities with the MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION OF NZ just aren't signification when it suits you :second:

[Ocean1]

Shit, he's eating the fucking crayons now!

[jasonu]

For the landlord, are the costs of supply and installation not a tax-deductible expense?

Yes but your deduction (money off your tax) is only about $1 for every $4 you spend.
Spending money to save on your tax doesn't work.

[jasonu]

Shit, he's eating the fucking crayons now!

Only an idiot would have voted for Labour and still be defending them.

[husaberg]

Yes but your deduction (money off your tax) is only about $1 for every $4 you spend.
Spending money to save on your tax doesn't work.

Wow you just rewrote our tax code from america
Maybe you dont understand but we pay tax on net profit not gross profit here in NZ but claim on deductions against it first.
also our tax is more like 1 in three.
You also just rewrote how NZ investors use property to avoid income tax as there is no Capitial gains tax on property.
NZ is a place Where spending money as investyments in property to save on your taxes clearly does work.

Speaking of which America has a CGT and you always go on about how great america is so does that mean CGT are great.
https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--ny3OanY8--/t_Preview/b_rgb:c8e0ec,c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1476133769/production/designs/725471_1.jpg

[jasonu]

Wow you just rewrote our tax code from america
Maybe you dont understand but we pay tax on net profit not gross profit here in NZ but claim on deductions against it first.
also our tax is more like 1 in three.
You also just rewrote how NZ investors use property to avoid income tax as there is no Capitial gains tax on property.
NZ is a place Where spending money as investyments in property to save on your taxes clearly does work.

Speaking of which America has a CGT and you always go on about how great america is so does that mean CGT are great.
https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--ny3OanY8--/t_Preview/b_rgb:c8e0ec,c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1476133769/production/designs/725471_1.jpg

Are you being stupid on purpose or does it come naturally?

[husaberg]

Are you being stupid on purpose or does it come naturally?

If you cant argue the points where i have shown you to be very clearly wrong.
I would suggest you just stick to american politics ,where its already dumbed down to the lowest common denominator (Ie the american voter)

[jasonu]

If you cant argue the points where i have shown you to be very clearly wrong.
I would suggest you just stick to american politics ,where its already dumbed down to the lowest common denominator (Ie the american voter)

The only thing you have shown is you don?t know what you are talking about.

[husaberg]

Yes but your deduction (money off your tax) is only about $1 for every $4 you spend.
Spending money to save on your tax doesn't work.



The only thing you have shown is you don?t know what you are talking about.

Well do go on then, explain why so many people invest so much money in investment property in NZ. From all over the world.
Explain why farmers strive to buy land instead of sharemilking in NZ where the ROI is so much better with share-milking. Than with farm ownership.
As you clearly are too american. I will give you a hint, we use property to hide income and to defer tax. Exactly the total opposite to what you stated.
You can build capital with investment in assets without paying tax you can continue to do this perpetually then cash in the assets without having to pay the tax on the increase in value.
Another reason is you can use it to hide your own living expenses and property maintenance within your rental business. ownership aloows much better write offs and write downs.
Simply put if you don't invest the profit, its treated as income which is taxed. This is a dead loss, but if you invest it you get to keep and not give it to the government. While at the same time building a asset, that has no capital gains tax so its profits are also not taxed.
Do i need to use smaller words?
Because its so simple even Katman would understand the principals?

This is the cornerstone of how a heck of a lot of Kiwis and people from around the world build assets.

[jasonu]

Well do go on then, explain why so many people invest so much money in investment property in NZ. From all over the world.
Explain why farmers strive to buy land instead of sharemilking in NZ where the ROI is so much better with share-milking. Than with farm ownership.
As you clearly are too american. I will give you a hint, we use property to hide income and to defer tax. Exactly the total opposite to what you stated.
You can build capital with investment in assets without paying tax you can continue to do this perpetually then cash in the assets without having to pay the tax on the increase in value.
Another reason is you can use it to hide your own living expenses and property maintenance within your rental business. ownership aloows much better write offs and write downs.
Simply put if you don't invest the profit, its treated as income which is taxed. This is a dead loss, but if you invest it you get to keep and not give it to the government. While at the same time building a asset, that has no capital gains tax so its profits are also not taxed.
Do i need to use smaller words?
Because its so simple even Katman would understand the principals?

This is the cornerstone of how a heck of a lot of Kiwis and people from around the world build assets.

So you?re saying farmers are all tax dodging scammers.

[Katman]

Because its so simple even Katman would understand the principals?

Fixated, much?

[sidecar bob]

Fixated, much?

Jessica Mutch?

[husaberg]

So you?re saying farmers are all tax dodging scammers.

No i clearly didnt its within the rules its not just Farmers all the property investors do the same. Most of the world does where they can.
Its tax minimisation. dont confuse it with what your president who refuses to release his tax returns does.
Its also shows what you said was 100% wrong btw.

[sidecar bob]

Well do go on then, explain why so many people invest so much money in investment property in NZ. From all over the world.
Explain why farmers strive to buy land instead of sharemilking in NZ where the ROI is so much better with share-milking. Than with farm ownership.
As you clearly are too american. I will give you a hint, we use property to hide income and to defer tax. Exactly the total opposite to what you stated.
You can build capital with investment in assets without paying tax you can continue to do this perpetually then cash in the assets without having to pay the tax on the increase in value.
Another reason is you can use it to hide your own living expenses and property maintenance within your rental business. ownership aloows much better write offs and write downs.
Simply put if you don't invest the profit, its treated as income which is taxed. This is a dead loss, but if you invest it you get to keep and not give it to the government. While at the same time building a asset, that has no capital gains tax so its profits are also not taxed.
Do i need to use smaller words?
Because its so simple even Katman would understand the principals?

This is the cornerstone of how a heck of a lot of Kiwis and people from around the world build assets.

There may be all that, but other reasons To invest in property is to inflation proof savings & create a passive income so You don't have to go to work to get money, although You may choose to for your own feeling of usefulness.
Also, to make sure that in the event of your untimely demise, that your wife can live a comfortable life, with work optional, and so your kids may get something eventually when they are much older, so they are able to live comfortably in their middle, later life.
Everything else is inconsequential & most of the stuff you put there I wouldn't have a clue about.
Also "hidden income" is no more use than drug money, as non taxable income can't be used for anything other than wasting on toys & rubbish. It has no paper value as a wedge with a bank to obtain a loan to purchase further properties.
If it doesn't exist on paper, then it doesn't exist to a bank.

[husaberg]

There may be all that, but the only reasons I invest in property is to inflation proof my savings & create a passive income so I don't have to go to work to get money, although I may choose to for my own feeling of usefulness.
Also, to make sure that in the event of my untimely demise, that my wife can live a comfortable life, with work optional, and so my kids may get something eventually when they are much older, so they are able to live comfortably in their middle, later life.
Everything else is inconsequential & most of the stuff you put there I wouldn't have a clue about.
I'm at a point where the next generation will be selling my portfolio, if at all, so CGT is a mute point for me.

The point i was making is if you have not have invested it in something akin to property it would have been treated as being income and taxed accordingly. I struggle to believe you never thought of it,and that that had nothing to do with the decision of doing this rather than simply putting it in the bank and being taxed twice on it.:msn-wink: its one of the reasons people were so heavily investing in NZ property.
I say this as we have had discussions before about it. On this very thread.
That said i feel the Auckland housing bubble may burst eventually.
Also in a lot of cases rural farm land prices are over inflated as well.

[sidecar bob]

The point i was making is if you have not have invested it in something akin to property it would have been treated as being income and taxed accordingly. I dont believe you never thought of it,and that that had nothing to do with the decision of doing this rather than simply putting it in the bank and being taxed twice on it.:msn-wink:

I think you have over estimated how smart I am.:msn-wink:
The smartest guy I know invests in property, lovely chap that's always got five minutes to spare for a chat, I'm just copying him.

[sidecar bob]

I say this as we have had discussions before about it. On this very thread.
That said i feel the Auckland housing bubble may burst eventually.

Now there's a term I find particularly irritating, "housing bubble" emotional hyper babble, giving the impression that a market can do nothing other than dissapeared into a drop of dew under its own pressure.
So there may be fluctuations, would be odd if there wasn't, but burst? What the fuck? Is everyone going to move out & live in a station wagon?
There seems to be this mentality that property markets are either boom or bust, rather than bob around a bit like any market does. If you can look around the sides of the high emotion attatched to it there's a great opportunity to do well out of those that can't & make great long term investments that are secure & lucrative.

[husaberg]

Now there's a term I find particularly irritating, "housing bubble" emotional hyper babble, giving the impression that a market can do nothing other than dissapeared into a drop of dew under its own pressure.
So there may be fluctuations, would be odd if there wasn't, but burst? What the fuck? Is everyone going to move out & live in a station wagon?
There seems to be this mentality that property markets are either boom or bust, rather than bob around a bit like any market does. If you can look around the sides of the high emotion attatched to it there's a great opportunity to do well out of those that can't & make great long term investments that are secure & lucrative.

I have seen farm land prics go here from 5000 per HA for Dairyable land to $25000/ha now its back to 12000/ha

at some stage there will be a adjustment of the Aucks housing prices its not sustainable.
Have a look at the states to see what it looks like.

This is not sustainable
In 2017, the Demographia think-tank ranked Auckland's housing market the fourth-most unaffordable in the world — behind Hong Kong, Sydney and Vancouver — with median house prices rising from 6.4 times the median income in 2008 to 10 times in 2017



KPMG said it appears that the ban on overseas buyers of houses, which came into force in October, is already impacting the housing market, perhaps more than expected.
"The decrease in the sale of houses for New Zealand excluding Auckland was 8.2%, whereas the Auckland region seems to be feeling the effect of the ban most, with a much larger drop of 24.3%.

[sidecar bob]

I have seen farm land prics go here from 5000 per HA for Dairyable land to $25000/ha now its back to 12000/ha

at some stage there will be a adjustment of the Aucks housing prices its not sustainable.
Have a look at the states to see what it looks like.

So for the long term investor it's gone up $7000 per HA, or 140%, it's not like any kind of bubble burst and it still sounds cheap, not that I study dairy farm prices in your shire.

[husaberg]

So for the long term investor it's gone up $7000 per HA, or 140%, it's not like any kind of bubble burst and it still sounds cheap, not that I study dairy farm prices in your shire.
True But not many of those brought at 5kHa at lot brought at 15-25K /HA and now have land worth 12K/HA.
The dairy bubble did burst.

[sidecar bob]

True But not many of those brought at 5kHa at lot brought at 15-25K /HA and now have land worth 12K/HA.
The dairy bubble did burst.
Well no, to be fair it shrunk a bit, it didn't burst.
The 15 to 25 chums probably didn't do their homework & piled on in there in a great panic before it was 50k a HA, I mean dairy farmers aren't usually the sharpest tools in the shed.
If they hang in there they will eventually break even at worst.
Selling in a downturn is the behaviour of the desperate or easily spooked.

[Swoop]

They asked if the walls were insulated. Er' no, it's 30 years old. They demanded that we were obliged, by law, to do this.

Wrong. It's not required.
Roof insulation is, and under-floor if accessible. Not walls though.

[sidecar bob]

Wrong. It's not required.
Roof insulation is, and under-floor if accessible. Not walls though.

You can use the system where they drill holes variously in the internal or external walls & pour in polystyrene beads.
This system is a little dangerous as they can get into the flush boxes & cause fire if they aren't sealed up prior to installation.